We are stepping in the unknown, confusing (to some) and taboo territory on today’s 360 Health Biz Podcast! We have Alison Gordon, CEO of 48North Cannabis Corp. to talk about, you guessed it – cannabis!
In America, cannabis is federally illegal but at state level (in some states) medical cannabis is legal. In Canada however, cannabis became legal across the nation in October of 2018 and edibles became legal in October 2019. However, there's a lot of regulatory work that still needs to be done in Canada and the US.
Depending on your interest and involvement in cannabis, there are areas that are black and white, gray, and frankly…green.
In this episode we discuss:
- legalization and licensing of cannabis in Canada vs America
- what is vaping and is it legal?
- marketing around public opinion
- how to work around marketing cannabis restrictions
- organic cannabis and regulation around quality
- illegal dispensaries vs legal licensed dispensaries
- medical conditions that have seen positive impact from cannabis use
- public perception: why alcohol is accepted by cannabis isn’t
We learned a lot from Alison in today’s episode and we hope you do too!
Alison Gordon - CEO 48North Cannabis Corp. Alison is a veteran of the Canadian cannabis industry, bringing unique experience and relationships to her role as co-chief executive officer of 48North. A skilled marketer, she is celebrated for her ability to shift public opinion and consumer behaviour and has been named one of Canada’s Top 10 Marketers by Marketing magazine. As co-founder of Rethink Breast Cancer, Alison is credited with growing a new generation of young breast cancer supporters, compelled by her ground-breaking communication and pharmaceutical expertise in the health-care realm. Today, Alison is applying her skills to 48North’s business plan in this new era of the cannabis industry. She is on the board of directors for the Cannabis Canada Council.
Connect with Allison on Instagram: @cannabisculturist
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Kendra: Hey guys, what's up? Kendra here, welcome to the 360 Health Biz Podcast. I am super excited for today's show because we're talking about kind of a sexy topic. We're talking about marijuana, we're talking about cannabis. It's a very current topic on social media, because we did just recently legalize it. So, we're going to be talking with an awesome guest today. And unfortunately, Christine's not with me today cause she's off gallivanting the planet as usual. I actually don't even know where she is today. But, she will be back, joining me for our next recording.
So today, it's just me and our awesome guests. We are good. Like I said, talking about cannabis, which was actually something I'm very excited to talk about because you guys follow me on social media, you've probably heard me talk about this. I live in a very small town in British Columbia that was basically built on the marijuana industry and up until recently, our whole economy ran on it.
So myself included, I'm comfortable saying this now because it is cool. But, I used to be very much involved in that industry, and a lot of the people I know in this town are very much involved in it. And now that it's been legalized, a lot of my friends are adjusting to kind of like the new landscape of what is coming.
So, I am sitting here with Alison Gordon. She is the CEO of 48North Cannabis Corporation. She is a veteran of the Canadian cannabis industry, bringing unique experience and relationships to her role as co-Chief Executive Officer for 48North. She is a skilled marketer. She is celebrated for her ability to shift public opinion and consumer behavior, and has been named one of Canada's top 10 marketers by Marketing Magazine. That's pretty impressive. And, she is also the co founder of the Rethink Breast Cancer. Alison is a credited with growing a new generation of young breast cancer supporters, is held by her groundbreaking communication and pharmaceutical expertise in the healthcare realm.
Today Alison is applying her skills to 48North's business plan in this new era of the cannabis industry. She's on the board of directors with the Cannabis Canada Council.
Welcome Alison. Thank you so much for being here.
Alison Gordon: Thank you for having me.
Kendra: So, that is a pretty impressive bio. I would love to know first and foremost, like how did you end up in this industry? Like how did this all get started for you?
Alison Gordon: Well, it started in high school, when I started smoking weed and never really stopped. But in terms of as a career, and you know, within the regulated legal industry, I started thinking about this industry, well let's put it this way. In 2008, I had a close family member that was diagnosed with stage four ovarian cancer. And her doctor recommended that she try medical cannabis. And I was like, what? Canada has a medical cannabis program? This is back in 2008, don't forget. So, a long time ago. And I had no idea. And I got very excited, and you know, looking back was obviously quite naive and thinking about these ideas that I had for what I thought this industry could become. I was also really amazed at seeing an older woman who had never smoked weed or used it before, using it daily to help with anxiety, pain, sleep, all the things that come with end-of-life care.
And so I was like, okay, this is shifting. Clearly, there's a shift here. People are going to recognize the benefits of medicinal cannabis. And then for me, I started to think and believe that ultimately we would move towards legalization, which has happened. So, I really started looking at the industry, both Canada and the U.S. back then. At the time I was co-running Rethink Breast Cancer, which I had confounded with my partner, MJ. Was very happy there. We were growing this international organization, working with young women with breast cancer. But I just kept having this nibbling feeling that I wanted to get involved in the cannabis industry. And in 2013 I decided, you know what, Rethink is running amazingly. It can survive without me, as anything can. And I transitioned onto the board and started working in Canada, in the industry.
Kendra: Very, very cool. And so, I think like, for those of you, for those of you who are American, or from outside of Canada, Canada did just recently legalize it. And I know in the U.S., I'm not super familiar with the laws there, but I know in certain states it's more or less like may be decriminalized or legalized to some degree.
And you know, in your bio you mentioned like kind of shifting public opinion and consumer behavior. Can you speak a little bit to that? Like why do you think it's important to shift public opinion? Like what is the current public opinion and like why is that so important to you?
Alison Gordon: Well, let me first deal with what you were saying. So in the U.S., it is federally illegal, still at the federal level. So at the state level of certain states, it is legal for adult use, medical, these things. But the federal obviously trumps the state. And in the Obama administration, you know, there was the Cole memo, which allowed the States the right to govern in this way. With Trump, it's still unclear. So you know, Canada was in a very unique position and still is to be legalized at the federal level.
So, you know, coming back to your question of shifting public opinion. Well you know, this is the biggest part of our job on so many levels. Because what I always say is that the prohibition of cannabis is probably some of the best marketing that ever existed. It should be on the cover of every marketing textbook.
Alison Gordon: As the amount of misinformation that exists out there in the world amongst educated, smart people as well as you know, people, all sorts of people. But, it is just staggering and trying to break that misinformation seems to be challenging.
Alison Gordon: I think we've made tons of headway. The fact that Canada has actually legalized shows that, you know, the government understood that this is no longer something that the mass of Canadian voters would have issue with. Cause otherwise they wouldn't do it.
Alison Gordon: And you know, there's all sorts of different stats in Canada and the U.S. about public opinion. And the opinion, in terms of legalizing, is most definitely significantly higher than those that don't believe it should be legal in both Canada and the U.S. But I think what people don't realize is so much of that misinformation, yes they might believe it's legal, but the view of the type of people who use cannabis or whether they want it in their community, it's still strong. And that's challenging because that impacts our, you know, government representatives who pass the regulatory environments. And I think you know, a lot of the information we get from those, you know, MPs and others still believe that cannabis is a drug, and it's a problem, and it's all of these things. So for us to fully move into a legal market and to get consumers to understand the value of having a legal market, there's a lot of regulatory work that needs to be done in Canada and especially in the U.S.
Kendra: Yeah. And I mean something I've noticed cause like you know, I'm from Nelson, British Columbia. If you're familiar with that tiny little town.
Alison Gordon: Yes of course, very familiar.
Kendra: Very much like a town built on the marijuana industry. And you know, it's just interesting cause the dispensary's, you know, before legalization, you can pretty much get anything. It was kind of in this gray zone. But now that we've moved into legalization, like you actually can't get as much. Like you can't get the edibles. Like you can only get like...
Alison Gordon: ...at the legal dispensary's.
Kendra: Yeah, totally.
Alison Gordon: Yeah. Well those are not yet legal in Canada.
Alison Gordon: So to date, like ending very soon, cause it's coming on October 17th of this year. But, what's been legal in Canada for the past year is flower and one very limited extract. So not edibles, not vapes, not topicals. So anyone who sees those products in the Canadian market today, and likely over the next two months, those are not legal. And so with the big crisis that's been going on, you know, I want to make sure that everybody understands that vapes are not legal in Canada right this minute. It will be in the coming weeks and months. But you, you know, if you don't buy them from a legal entity, then you actually don't know what's in them.
Kendra: And can you just speak to the vape crisis. And like what is vaping? Cause I'm a little bit confused about what it actually is. And I think some of our listeners are maybe unfamiliar with it.
Alison Gordon: Well, I mean vaping is a, I want to say technology. It's probably not the right word. But it's, it's a very particular, well it's not a mechanism, but delivery method.
Alison Gordon: That uses a certain form of oils and heat to turn, whether it's flower or oil into something that you, a vapor essentially you can inhale into your lungs.
Alison Gordon: You know, this is, vaping been around for a very long time. And in terms of things like the volcano, or you know, different forms of it. But what happened, I think, and I don't know the exact history, but with the proliferation of these E-cigarettes people then took that, or I don't know which came first. But you know, that we have sort of that version on the cannabis side, where it's essentially you can buy disposable vapes. So meaning, you'll use it, and these vapes are made out of oil.
Alison Gordon: Right. So they're cannabis oil, sometimes mixed with other oils. Right? So it really depends on what you buy. And that's why you need to buy from a legal market.
Because for example, we acquired a company in the U.S. called Quill. They make vapes. Those vapes are 100% cannabis oil.
Alison Gordon: There's no additives, no fillers. Often people, especially in the black market, are cutting that with oil, other oils.
Alison Gordon: And so you don't know what's in those oils. There could be flavors or this vitamin E acetate that people are talking about, that they think might be what's causing the deaths, they don't know.
So you know, essentially when you're vaping, generally, unless you're taking flower and putting it in a vaporizer, which would be a much larger apparatus. If it's just one of these pens as we call them, it's an oil. And it being heated, and you're inhaling it into your lungs. Obviously there isn't a ton of research in general, even on the E-cigarette side as to the effect of vaporizing versus smoking a cigarette.
Alison Gordon: And then on the cannabis side, you know, same, same. But you know, again, it's been thought to be a better alternative to smoking. But I guess that's TBD.
Kendra: Exactly. Yeah. And that's really interesting. And I think like within the health and wellness space for all of our coaches who are listening, I think a lot of them, I've seen all just a lot of discussion in general in the communities that people are interested in like, you know, using these types of products personally, or maybe with their clients. But there seems to be a big concern about quality. And personally, I've seen indoor grow shows in my community where I see a lot of chemicals being used for example. And you know within the health and wellness space, like people are always really concerned about quality, and organic, and the fact that things aren't used with chemicals if we are going to be using it for a health application. Can you speak to that a little bit?
Alison Gordon: Yeah, well I mean 48North, we are organic in two out of three of our facilities, our large outdoor farms. So the bulk of our product coming online will be organic. So I completely agree with you. That said, the legal market in Canada, again, if you buy from a legal dispensary or from online from your government, you know, online entity or whichever province you're in, if you're in Canada, or in the U.S. from a legal entity, these things are all heavily lab tested.
Alison Gordon: And the government in Canada has heavy, heavy regulations against using any form of pesticides. So even though we are 48North have gone through the process of being certified organic, I can say with a lot of faith that the legal market, you're not looking at the same level like any form of pesticides. Like for example, in Canada, you can't spray the plant past a certain point with anything, including water.
And that's the government's way of just ensuring nothing passes through. And the truth is we have to lab test so heavily that, you know..., It's just like anything I say like you, you go into restaurants that have, in Ontario at least the green thing on the window that they've been inspected and everything's fine. You don't go buy an egg sandwich off someone sitting on the street with a plate. Like you just don't know what's in these things.
So, this is the move that needs to happen towards the legal market. And it's not to say many people in the black market might be doing organic, or they might be doing all the right things. But how are you as the consumer supposed to know?
Alison Gordon: And so that's what I think you know, is where people need to get to from a health and wellness perspective, is recognizing there's value in lab testing. Whether or not you may pay a couple of cents more, 50 cents more, whatever, or less. I mean the legal market might be less in some instances. The upside of that is it's regulated.
Alison Gordon: That's what we ask of our products and do.
Kendra: Yes. No, I absolutely agree. And would you say that's, like that would be similarly true of the U.S.? Like people purchasing in the U.S., if they buy from like a government body, like does that exist in the U.S. like can they try...
Alison Gordon: Well, it's not about buying from a government body. It's about buying from illegal licensed dispensary. And in the U.S., each state will have different requirements around lab testing. California has quite stringent requirements. So, you're quite certain in California that, you know, what you're buying from a legal market is being tested for all sorts of heavy metals, and same with Canada. So yes, it's about buying from a legal market. I think what confuses consumers is when they see stores on the street that are selling weed, they think it's legal because how does that exist if it's not legal? But, that's part of the confusion that's existing, both in Canada and the U.S., as you transitioned to this legal market.
Kendra: So yeah, and I do find that confusing. So, what you're saying is just because there is someone who has a shop open on this, on like the downtown street, it doesn't mean that it's regulated or that it's technically legal?
Alison Gordon: No, and I don't have an answer for you as to how that sort of store would get shut down. I can speculate that the police themselves are confused as to what's going on. That nobody likes to take time and resources in the court systems for things that won't result in jail time. I don't really know how or why. I think they do get shut down and they pop back up. Especially online is where this proliferating.
So people go online, they can get it delivered to their door. They assume it's legal. So you know, I think it's, it behooves people to just actually understand it. Asking them are you legal? Like they may not get the truthful answer. I think it's depending where you are understanding. Like for example in Ontario online, the only place that's legal is the OCS.CA and then we only have about 25 stores in all of Ontario that are legal right now. They are giving out another 42 licenses. But there's some potential delay there. But yeah, I mean it's, it's, they have a symbol on their windows that show that they are actually a licensed retailer.
Kendra: Okay. Okay. That's good to know. Yeah. Cause I've been a little bit confused about that, and I have seen that happen in Nelson. Like places kind of like shut down and like come back up. And then places like now they can't sell this, but you can get it from their online store. And I think just everything being so new, there's a lot of confusion and hopefully that will, you know, over time have a...
Alison Gordon: Look, this isn't like a positive thing. But the easy way to know is like does the packaging look like this? Which is our pre-roll pack, which is the best that we can do in light of having to have these massive warning. And again not to say the black market wouldn't copy this as well. That's the challenge. Right?
Alison Gordon: But I just, if I was in the black market, why would I make it look like this? I would look more appealing.
Kendra: It would be a lot of effort. Like 10 points for effort, that's for sure. Okay. Yeah.
Alison Gordon: And no doubt it happens.
Kendra: Exactly. And I would love to speak a little bit more about like the whole health connection. Why medical marijuana and cannabis is you know, something that we should as health practitioners like consider for certain conditions. And obviously I think you've seen benefit with people who have breast cancer. Like what else can you speak to regarding that?
Alison Gordon: Well I mean I think there's a ton, a ton, a ton of content now on the web about this from people much more knowledgeable than me. But you know just having been in the industry for as long as I have, and speaking with patients, and people like, there's a ton of new actual clinical studies that are coming out. Which is great cause it's really just been anecdotal to date. So obviously with the advent of all these CBD products in the U.S. There's been a lot of interest in CBD. The FDA has approved a drug called Epidiolex made of CBD for epilepsy. So I think CBD is well known as an anti-inflammatory, anti-seizure that can really help people. I have friends with epilepsy that have gotten off all pharmaceuticals just by using CBD. Now of course, once again, not all CBD is created equal, although it is a molecule.
But you know, again, it's doing a little bit of research and looking into the full spectrum. So, it is likely the cannabis plant has over a hundred cannabinoids. CBD is one of them, THC is another. THC is the cannabinoid that when heated gets you high. But there is a hundred cannabinoids and various things in the plant. So you know, it's trying out these full spectrum products that have that entourage effect.
That's something I am biased towards. There is no clinical research to say that's any more effective than using a product like that CBD isolate. But I think intuitively it just makes sense. You know, pain management, glaucoma, MS, Parkinson's, I mean like it does all start to sound like really? But it truly, there is, you know, it's been obviously well-documented that humans have an endocannabinoid system. The cannabis plant and the receptors connect to that.
And I think we're just starting to scratch the surface of understanding how cannabis can help. I mean social anxiety, anxiety's, there are people that I know, and I've read about that you know had extreme forms of anxiety and PTSD, never leaving the house, et cetera, et cetera. That now are able to have a more functioning existence thanks to using cannabis. Some might be okay with a very small amount of CBD. Others, it requires some THC, and you have the problem, or the challenge is, you know, I used to say it's a plant based medicine so of course there's trial and error. But I hate to say that because with pharmaceuticals I think we've all been brainwashed to believe that there's a consistent use, meaning the effect is going to be the effect. But I think the reality is if you have friends who have taken antidepressants, they often need to try three before there's one that works.
So it's no difference, it's just you. You might need a very minimal dose of just CBD to be able to deal, like have your anxiety under control. Others may need more. So there is a trial and error right now, which is part of the problem that the state ranking perception, is that doctors don't have that same ease with which to prescribe and go 10 milligrams. But they were getting there, and we're getting there quickly. And so I think, you know, there's nothing to be scared of. You can try cannabis and see if it works for you. If you are worried about getting highs and start with the CBD product and see where you go.
Kendra: Yeah, yeah I love that. And, I especially love the application to pain management because I know a lot of people like that's how their addiction start. You know, they get into an accident or they have, you know, some sort of chronic issue and they end up addicted to pain pills.
Alison Gordon: Yeah. I mean there is a lot of research to show cannabis as a, obviously an amazing alternative to opioids. But also a successful treatment for opioid addiction.
Alison Gordon: And I think that, that's really important as well.
Kendra: Yeah, that's amazing. And I remember, like many years ago I had ACL reconstructive surgery, and they prescribed me Percocet, which made me feel disgusting. And my friend came over and gave me Phoenix Tears, which yeah. Are you familiar with those? I wasn't sure if that was the Nelson thing or like that's a legitimate, yeah.
Alison Gordon: Yeah, we know of it.
Kendra: And I remember using those and I mean like yeah, they made me super high and like kind of I couldn't really communicate well with people. But I, I wasn't, I was able to not use the Percocet. And like it killed all my pain and that was really amazing cause I just, I've never been really interested in taking pharmaceuticals. So I, yeah.
Alison Gordon: And again, like it's hard for you in that situation. Maybe you didn't have to be that high. Like your friends giving Phoenix Tears. Obviously that's not, you know, regulated. So you don't exactly know what's in it. Even though I'm sure we trust your friend, and it's not about what's in it from an ingredient standpoint. It's like dosing is quite complex, as you could imagine. So, as legal companies who have to lab test, when we say this is the dose, that's the dose.
Alison Gordon: Also, obviously you don't have someone guiding you through that process.
Alison Gordon: Like a physician, which you likely could do now, because we have many more physicians who are educated in this that could, you know, say let's start you on a one-to-one and let's work up. Your friend just kind of brought you Phoenix Tears.
Kendra: Yeah. And though they were so hot here for a while, like everyone was like, Phoenix Tears were like the hottest thing around town. And then this was back when it was illegal. And then I remember like they got so hot that people had to like ditch them and bury them in the forest, because the cops are getting super involved. But I do remember that and I really did appreciate the painkilling. And at the time I liked smoking weeds, so I was fine with being that high. These days, I would probably want to have someone guide me through the experience and not get so high so I could actually function.
Alison Gordon: Yeah. And, and again, like this is a very common saying is you start low, and goes slow. Right? So it's like, it's the same thing. It's no different than Percocet or Oxycontin. I mean, it's totally different, I want to be clear about that. But what I need to say is the misperception that with a pharmaceutical, like that's what you're going to do. I mean, you might've taken that Percocet and maybe you only really needed half of it, or ideally don't take it at all.
But you understand the point that I'm making, which is we lead such blind faith in the pharmaceutical industry and it's so fascinating to me to like, I wish I could fast forward 20 years. Because so much research is being done on cannabis and it's just going to be such a different world. And I just wonder if all of this will be, you know, misconceptions will be wiped out and people will be as skeptical about pharma as they are this poor little plant.
Kendra: Yeah, I mean it is really true. I've always found that interesting. Like how much trust people will have in like the pharmaceutical community, whereas like those types of drugs kill people all the time. Whereas like there's like street drugs and all these other things that like, you know, maybe magic mushrooms, and like marijuana, and stuff when people are just like, "Oh, that's illegal drugs." Like you're a druggie if you do that. Meanwhile, like most people are taking pharmaceuticals.
Alison Gordon: Well I think it's like the tides are definitely changing. Obviously the opioid crisis, especially in the U.S., but also in Canada is like getting front page attention. Which is amazing. But you know, at the same time, I think it's this balance. And my hope of course, is the reason people have faith in pharmaceuticals, whether it's right for them to or not, is it comes through physicians and physicians play a certain role in our society. But also, you know, where they're manufactured, that they're regulated, that things done clinical studies. So all of that gives the public the perception of safety. I'm not going to sit here and start trashing clinical studies, but I think people understand there's lots of ways to collect data. But at the same time, if you know, you got to play the game. And so the goal for our industry, of course, is to get this, you know, double blind studies done so we can prove to the powers that be that this is effective medicine for the things we're talking about.
And you know, no one has ever in the history of, you know, released in, documented to died from cannabis use.
Alison Gordon: So it's, you know, it's toll on your body is nothing and it's, I'm not going to say that, you know, people don't have an emotional addiction, because I don't know the answer whether that is. But there is no physical addiction that's been shown. And also I have many, many friends who were heavy cannabis users that might travel somewhere for two weeks that they can't get it, there is no physical withdrawal symptoms.
Alison Gordon: I mean I think this word just has to spread amongst healthcare community and understand that, you know, a lot of what you hear that it's a gateway drug, it's just total bullshit.
Kendra: I think it is bullshit. I think alcohol is more of a gateway drug. Like I've always made that comparison. Like alcohol is so accepted. But you know, when I used to drink all the time, like I do all kinds of things I regretted, and like end up on like weird people's couches, and be like wake up in the morning and be like, "I can't fucking believe I did that." But like that never happened with weed. Like the worst thing that would happen is maybe I would like eat too many chips or something like that.
Alison Gordon: Yeah. I mean alcohol is really, to me it's unbelievable that people will say, "Oh my God, do you like, do your kids see your weed or whatever?" And quite frankly, like I also suffer the stigma myself. Meaning, I'm in this role, I'm CEO of this company, and I'm still like cleaning up the weed, you know, with my teenagers around, if they are around. But at the same time, I don't even think twice if they come down in the morning, and I've had people over and have drinking. I mean I don't drink myself, not, I never really did. And so, it's just an easy one to wipe out.
But you know, first of all, alcohol isn't just about the bad decisions you make, but for sure it's there. But there's a ton of research that shows the effects of alcohol has on your body and your brain. They're making links to it, to Alzheimer's right now obviously liver diseases, all sorts of other things. But interesting to me is when you saw states like Colorado legalize cannabis, then you saw things like the alcohol sales went down about 30% in Colorado at that time. And then domestic violence went down by 30%. So we know, I think it's just, and this is where going back to 2014. So this information's out there. It's just like I said, you know, prohibition with like a stranglehold on our brains, and it's just people don't want to hear it and believe it.
Kendra: Yeah, I totally agree. And like that must make it challenging for like the marketing side of things. Cause you're a big marketer, top 10 marketers in Canada. Very cool. And like we love talking about marketing on this podcast, and like online business, and that sort of thing. So like how, like what is your sort of strategy towards like marketing, this sort of thing? Cause, obviously you have to shift public opinion, but like where do you go after that?
Alison Gordon: Well, the number one challenge beyond the challenge of shifting opinion is that in Canada we are not allowed [inaudible 00:29:02] as cannabis company anywhere. So, a variety of different strategies.
So one thing we did was create an online platform called Latitude where we share stories about how when women use cannabis for their health and wellness in their day-to-day lives, and it's just average women. And it's, you know, some of them are a mother and daughter, or they may be a yoga teacher, or it may be, like it's all over the map. And the idea there is, when you read these stories, so I'm looking around to see if I have one of the books in the office, in my office, but I don't. But when you read it, and it sells at Indigo, and it's a beautiful book or sort of magazine thing, you, you know, there's, I think a subconscious level where it's like this person's just like me. This isn't a scary person. This person has a good job. They're not just on their couch. But also understanding their rituals around it and how they use it and when they use it. And what it's done for them.
We also have hosted events latitude. Because again, we cannot do that as 48North because we sell cannabis and as part of that, we are not allowed to sponsor events, are not allowed to do all these things.
Alison Gordon: So Latitude, we've had a few events. The last one was on sex and pleasure and a lot of the women that came and spoke if, and the idea there is, it's like we have speakers and they might read poetry, they might tell a story. It's however they want to express themselves. And a lot of them were talking about, you know, really negative sexual experiences, whether it was like all the way of rape to just, you know, those are uncomfortable positions.
Alison Gordon: Like you end up a being somewhere you don't really want to be, and feel in control of. And each one spoke about how cannabis brought them back into their body, how they were able to use it to kill the trauma. And I get, I think, you know, we sell out those events very quickly. So you have a large audience hearing these stories and again normalizing it. And it's all you can do, it takes time and all you can do. You know, I continue to do things like this podcast with you, in the hopes it keeps people keep going, "Oh my God she's kind of like me. She runs a public org, she runs a public company. You know, she must not be out of her mind."
Kendra: And so, you cut out a little bit earlier, so I'm not sure if you already said this, but just like is there any regulations or rules around like if. Cause I have a lot of friends in this community who have like gotten, I guess I don't the right word, they've been given permission...
Alison Gordon: Licenses.
Kendra: Or they've been able to start there like their zone, their warehouse or whatever it is.
Alison Gordon: Licensed, they have been licensed.
Kendra: They've been licensed.
Alison Gordon: And I don't think that many in Nelson have been licensed, so that's interesting.
Kendra: Yeah. There's a few, like the people I'm thinking of, like they've been licensed for a certain number of plants. And then, they have to go through like this whole thing where they have to like show that they have like the space, and like get that approved and like there's this whole thing. And they're kind of working through this process. But I was wondering, like what is like, is the regulation around like sharing that sort of thing on social media? Like if you were to have like, you know, open the warehouse and start growing legally, can you be set up an Instagram account?
Alison Gordon: Sure, I mean we have Instagram. You can go to the 48North Instagram. We do show pictures of our grow, especially the outdoor grow, cause that's exciting to be one of the few, like really I think there's like only five that have been licensed for outdoor and like our scale is huge. We're going on, you know, almost a hundred acres, so 3.5 million square feet. So it's to our knowledge, the largest legal outdoor grow in the world. So that's something like we're obviously documenting and showing on social media from time-to-time. You have two issues in social media, one is that Instagram, and/or Facebook, and others don't allow for weed to be shown. So many, many, many, many people do it. It's just a question of are you going to get caught, and your account shut down, and restart again, which has happened to many of my friends.
Alison Gordon: And, and then the other issue is of course Health Canada and you know again it's just that fine line between showing, educating, and not being promotional.
Kendra: Right. Yeah. Cause I'm guessing there's probably law like rules. You can't advertise. You can't run Facebook.
Alison Gordon: No we can't. That's what I was saying. You can't, well Facebook doesn't allow you themselves Within Canada, that's what I was saying earlier, but I guess I cut out is, you are not allowed to market or advertise at all. You're not allowed to sponsor events. You're not allowed to. You know, in the U.S., you'll have certain brands naming their strains Calm or Energetic just to simplify it or the consumer.
Alison Gordon: You can't do that in Canada. You can't make claims, like you can't do anything. So that's where Latitude or us starting up sort of auxiliary, you know, businesses to be able to educate is so critical to the mission.
Kendra: So, for like the small guys, like for people who, you know, maybe in Canada who are, you know, getting licenses and they're eventually going to be legal and be able to kind of start their own operations. Like I'm guessing, like their marketing strategy is going to have to kind of include a lot of what you guys are doing. Like they're going to have to like also work on like changing perception and making it relatable and that sort of thing. Right. You think that's correct?
Alison Gordon: Well, I mean I don't know. Hopefully as they come online, we've done good work. And we can we help change that? I think everybody has a role to play in that for sure. But, you know, , again, without truly boring your listeners, it is very weird to call this out in your community. Like what a lot of people try and forget, is that we grow for up to sit down and that still exists. So, I'm not sure what you're referring to when you talk about license. They're still growers who are growing for patients, but that's not really what they're doing. Right. So they're legally allowed this grow, and they're saying they're growing them for patients, but it very well, okay. You know,
it might hit the black market, or illegal dispensaries, or whatever it is. I don't know. I don't want us to get rid of people that are growing for patients, and I'm making is that it's very difficult to actually get a license in Canada. Very, very difficult.
Kendra: Yeah. And it seems like, and I'm totally uneducated in the whole process and like, you know, I'm kind of just like, I'm hearing this through the grapevine and yeah, but from what the one thing I do understand, is that it sounds very complicated.
Alison Gordon: It's complicated and Canada's a highly regulated country. So you know, what do we have five banks, five cell phone companies. It's not going to be that there'll be thousands of these companies. What the government did put into effect last year was is the micro processing and micro grows. So you might, in referring to, you know, they're trying to license sort of small boroughs for people to transition from the black market.
But these, you know, it's a very difficult business to be in because then you have to figure out how to get your products onto a shelf which runs to the governments and requires enough quantity.
You know, it's like alcohol. It's like if you want to get your stuff in the LCBO Ontario and you only make a hundred bottles of something, that's very difficult for them to stock and spread out amongst their. So it's not, unfortunately the way it's structured today at business for small businesses.
Alison Gordon: Certain verticals might be, meaning you might grow up very small, grow very, you know, good quality craft, cheap and then sell it to a company like mine who has the ability to take that and get that on to along with our other products. But the industry needs to evolve to allow for small businesses to take part in it.
Kendra: So that's something your company does. Like you might look at like a, like a micro grow and like take their product. And try to like help them like get it to a bigger market?
Alison Gordon: Well, I think what we would do potentially, is we just buy it from them. So we just buy wholesale. It's not like to help them get on the shell. Right. It's to supply us with the high quality input. That we can then use our brands for. You know,
Kendra: it just seems like it's complicated and there's a lot of gray area right now. Because I mean I'm sure lots of people are still selling on the black market and I'm sure the black market's going to be around for a few more years before it totally disappears. Right?
Alison Gordon: The legal market is not gray at all. It's black and white. Right. For the average person, the black market and the gray market. Like it's all bleeding into one.
Totally. Well thank you so much for having this conversation.
Alison Gordon: Thank you.
Kendra: I feel like I learned a lot. I also learned I'm way more ignorant about this industry than I thought I was. That's good. I'll have to do some more reading and I'll definitely be following you on Instagram. And how can our listeners get hold of you and learn more about 48North and Rethink?
Alison Gordon: Well they can definitely follow us on Instagram at 48North. I am on Instagram as cannabisculturist. Which is a bit hard to spell. But if you find your way to 48 North, I'm sure you'll find your way to me. I think there is a lot of, I know there's a lot of great resources online for people to understand the health and wellness aspect of cannabis. So I would just suggest Googling and like whether it's Leafly, or Miss Grass, or any of these other content producers. Like you'll find your way to good content to start to understand what you know cannabis can do for your life.
Kendra: Awesome. Well thank you so much. I really, really appreciate you taking the time out of your, I'm sure. Like you sound like a busy person, so we really appreciate it. And thank you to all the listeners and as always, we will see you again in one week on Wednesday with another awesome episode of the 360 Health Biz Podcast. Love you all, and we'll talk to you guys next time.
What the F is a lead magnet?
A lead magnet is probably one of the most important things that you offer your ideal audience as a health coach. It can also be called a freebie or a free opt-in - basically it's something that you offer to your ideal audience of high value in exchange for their email address so you can build your email list. Unfortunately, not all lead magnets are made the same. Some of them work, and some will fail. In my new video I'm going to teach you the five highest converting lead magnets for health coaches.
My five years of running a business, I've created a ton of lead magnets, but what worked when I first started out doesn't work very well today. These days, my lead magnets have a very high conversion rate and I have easily built my email list without ads by about 10 to 15 subscribers per day.
Before we consider which types of lead magnets work and which ones don't, we really need to consider how humans interact in the modern world. In 2019 people are busy AF. They describe themselves as busy, they wear a ton of hats, they have a ton going on at all times. You might even call them a bit distracted. What that really means is that people overextend themselves and they really lack free time, so if your lead magnet is going to bring new leads onto your email list, your lead magnet needs to align with today's busy world.
So first off, your lead magnet needs to be short and easy to consume. When I first started marketing online, e-books were a big thing. You could offer a free e-book and people would opt in, and there was a chance that they might actually read the entire e-book. E-books don't work anymore. Those are pretty outdated, and the reason is because of how people interact in their lives. They have a million things going on at all times. So if you offer a 30 or 50 or a hundred page e-book, people are going to feel pretty overwhelmed by that, and they might not even opt in to begin with. The chances of them actually finishing that e-book and getting to the end of it are slim to none. And remember, you actually do want people to complete your lead magnet. You really want to see all the value you can give. You want them to get all that great information, and of course you also want them to get to the end where you say, "Hey, if you like this information, you maywant to book a free call or join my group program."
So your lead magnet shouldn't take the reader longer than 5 to 10 minutes to actually get through it. Once you complete your lead magnet, read through it and time yourself. If it takes you longer than 10 minutes to get through it, it's too long and people aren't going to get there, so you should edit it down to hit that 5 to 10 minute mark.
Next, your lead magnet has to be super, super juicy. There's a good chance this is the first time this person is actually coming into contact with you and what you offer, so it needs to reel them in, and it needs to prove to them that you are worth following and worth paying attention to.
So with the lead magnet, it can be really good if you tell them something that they didn't know before, and of course this does rely on knowing who your audience member actually is. If you have people who are super new to their health, then teaching them something basic like to drink clean water and eat breakfast, might be something they haven't heard before. But if your audience are further along in their health journey, then they know to eat breakfast and drink clean water, so you'll need to beef it up and tell them something that they haven't heard before. It does come down to knowing who you're talking to.
The next thing you can do is offer them a quick win, so something that they can implement quickly that will get them a quick result. Imagine if they read your lead magnet, they did something that you told them to do, and then they actually got a result! They felt better, they had less brain fog, they had more energy, they felt better after waking up from a night's sleep. That would make them want to pay attention. That would really prove to them that you were someone to follow.
So what kind of lead magnets work best? There are five that tend to work the best in the health and wellness industry.
1) Cheat sheet
A cheat sheet is a very edited down version that kind of gives some quick information that they can refer to. Maybe it would be a quick energy cheat sheet. It would be a list of a few things that help them get more energy in any given day.
Checklists convert super well because people love something they can check off. A checklist is quick and easy to consume, plus it doesn't take you that long to make. You don't want to be spending days and days and days making a lead magnet. It shouldn't take you that long to make. Maybe it's a bedtime routine checklist because you're niche is sleep so they can actually check off all the things that they should do before bed in order to get a good night's sleep.
3) Quick guide
This is like the e-book idea, but edited down to be very, very quick. I love calling it a quick guide because it tells people up front that you don't need them to commit much time to actually get the information. So if you do have an e-book out there, edit it down, turn it into a quick guide, and make sure it only takes 5 to 10 minutes to consume.
4) Short video/short video series
Remember people have short attention spans, so you don't want to make it too involved, but a quick 10 to 15 minute video or maybe a quick video series that includes 3-5 minute videos, that can be a really good way to teach your ideal client about what they need to learn about first before they eventually want to take the step and start working with you.
5) Case study
I find this works really well for health and wellness. If you've had great results with clients and those people are willing to share their results with your people, you can create a case study. Maybe you go through one or two case studies where you show them, this person came to me with XYZ problem, this is what we did, and after this amount of time, this is the result they got and this is their testimonial.
Now go create your high quality lead magnet and let those email subscribers roll on in!
Imposter Syndrome is something that almost EVERYONE experiences. Kendra has, Christine has, and our guest, Tara Wagner has too. So while everyone experiences it (or at least 70% of people according to studies), the important thing is you have to OVERCOME it, especially if you want to succeed in your business.
Imposter Syndrome often has you struggling with yourself – questioning who you are, are you good enough, and all of these fears and doubts that may be holding you back from showing everyone what a kickass human being (and amazing health coach) that you really are!
The definition of Imposter Syndrome is this, it’s the outward appearance of having it all together, while inside you feel sick to your stomach because you think that you are a fraud. It’s you telling yourself "I just need one more certificate and then I can launch this business. Or I just need one more training, or I need a couple letters behind my name." That's imposter syndrome.
In this episode we discuss:
- the definition of imposter syndrome
- the connection between ego and impostor syndrome
- can imposter syndrome be taught to go away?
- can you have imposter syndrome in the comfort zone?
- strategies to help imposter syndrome
- emotions vs facts
- 80/20 rule – 80% mindset, 20% strategy
Imposter syndrome includes personal and spiritual development to overcome it. And if you look at any well-known business owner or anyone you admire, you will see that their success didn’t happen overnight and it didn’t happen with them sitting at the back of the room. In order to grow, in order to be successful, you have to develop yourself and dig up some shit to find out how your emotions are getting the best of you.
Tune into our new episode with Tara Wagner to learn more about imposter syndrome – and best yet, how to overcome it!
Tara Wagner is a Belief Breakthrough Coach for self-employed women barely surviving their business. She helps you identify and overcome your old habits – both practical, as well as emotional and mental – learn a better way of approaching the work/life/family juggling act, and gain confidence in your new role in your growing businesses
Get Tara’s freebie, How to Grow Your Business by Growing Yourself: https://xotara.us/b2b
Connect with Tara Wagner:
Connect with us on social:
Kendra: Hey guys, what's up? Welcome to the 360 Health Biz Podcast. It's me, it's Kendra and sadly it is just me today. Christine is off gallivanting the world as per use, and I actually don't even know where she is right now, but I suspect she might be in Bali or at least on her way there. She is not going to be with us today but that's okay because I have a pretty amazing guest joining me today to talk about impostor syndrome.
Which I think is a very relevant topic for you, the health coach or you. Whatever type of online coaching you're doing because this is something that I've experienced. I'm sure Christine has experienced that, and you guys are probably going to be coming up against this on a regular basis. It is normal, but there's also some things you can do to overcome it, and that is who my guest or what my guest is going to help us with today.
First things first, I got an awesome review on iTunes and I just wanted to quickly read that out because we love, love, love when you give us reviews. That's actually a fantastic way to support the podcast. This is from Simply Will and she says, "These ladies are our key," I'm not sure if Simply Will is he or she, so they, These ladies are wonderful, true heartfelt educators. They really want to help you with your own health and clients. I love listening to them."
Will, we love that you love listening. Thank you so much for the review guys. If you want to take two minutes out of your day and go leave us a five star review on iTunes, probably the best way to help the podcast get out to more people. If you want to support the show, it only takes two minutes. All right, so let's get into our guest today. I'm hanging out here with Tara Wagner.
Tara is a belief breakthrough coach for self-employed woman barely surviving their business. She helps you identify and overcome your old habits, both practical as well as emotional and mental. Learn a better way of approaching the work life, family, juggling act and gain confidence in your new role, in your growing business. Welcome Tara, thanks for being here.
Tara Wagner: Thank you. And it's pronounced Tara.
Kendra: I'm sorry. I better get that out of the way right away, so Tara.
Tara Wagner: It happens.
Kendra: I'm sure that happens.
Tara Wagner: Thank you so much. I am just absolutely loving you guys and this podcast. I'm really happy to be here and talking about probably the biggest elephant in the room that nobody likes to talk about, so just get really uncomfortable.
Kendra: How did you end up in this space? I would love to know how did you even end up here?
Tara Wagner: Yeah. This is a lifelong journey for me that I've probably started when I was in middle school. Where really I struggled so much with my own stuff, my own problems were pretty much all in my head. I was just struggling with who am I and am I enough, and all of these fears, all of these doubts. It led me through some really deep, dark years and I had to find tools that worked for me. It was this long process of just learning how to free myself, because anybody who's been there, they know it's exhausting to be in a hot mess. It's so much work.
Kendra: It is.
Tara Wagner: I spent years just learning how to develop myself with the underlying purpose or goal of being just being free. That is my biggest value, I just wanted to feel free. As I started doing that, I've been an entrepreneur for 20 years. I had another business. I struggled in that business so much because of my beliefs, but total blind spots; didn't see it, didn't understand why I was struggling. When I finally burned out, I sold that business.
I basically gave it away just to be done with it. With through a few years of just introspection, deep healing, deep understanding, so much of my identity was tied up in that. It was just this time of really learning and examining that had come out of that first business. During that time, this was when blogging was taking off. I started blogging just as a personal blog. It didn't actually blog a lot of my own personal stuff, but blogged other things that I was doing in my life.
As I was doing this inner work, my life was obviously starting to expand as well. Because when you start letting go of all of the should'ves and the have tos, and the who am Is, and all of that, you start to do things that nobody else is doing or that you really want to do. You're not held back by anything anymore. I started blogging about our life and I started blogging about our parenting, and how we were doing all these different things.
But it wasn't really sharing how did I get to the point where I could do things so differently? How do you let go of anger and frustration towards your kids so you can be a patient parent? How do you let go of the fear of what other people think so that you can ... At the time, I have my entire front yard was urban homestead, right? Everyone's like, "Aren't you worried about what the neighbors think?" That kind of stuff.
My blog slowly started to transform. Then we went through the recession like everyone else, my husband lost his job. We decided to take it as an opportunity and travel. That's when I had a lot of people coming to us like, "How are you doing this?" Not financially, how are you doing this? Not practically, how do you run an RV but like, "How are you living a life that you want to live without all of this here?"
I just started coaching people on it. I was coaching people through parenting. I was coaching people through lifestyle, but really very quickly what it ended up being was coaching people through their own beliefs. Through that, I pulled all my tools together and realized that, "I actually have a process. I actually have a thing that I do when I uncover a block, or a belief, or a challenge." I developed that more fully and I continued my own learning, and my own research, and testing things on clients over there.
I've been doing this for about 10 years now, and just developed a system or a process that works, that helps you to identify what is actually tripping you up. Then change it and rewrite it without all of the years of therapy and the, not to say anything bad about therapy. I've used it, many people need it. But sometimes it takes you in circles instead of going forward and I needed something that was going to, I need to just stop navel-gazing.
I was at the point, in one point of my journey where I was like, "I can dig and dig, and dig, and understand all of the deep seated problems, and where they all stemmed from." But at some point, you've got to stop the digging and you've got to start moving forward. I had to very quickly because it's so easy for me to dig and go deep, and stay deep. I had to learn a strategy that was faster than that or it was just too tempting to stay in my mark.
That's what I did and I just continue to do it, and I love it. It's one of the things that I have never gotten sick of doing and talking about; is personal development and spiritual development, and how our minds work, how our bodies relate to that and then what we can do to actually change what's not working for us.
Kendra: I love that and I totally know what you mean about going deep but not actually fixing the problem. I think sort of talk therapy for example, is really beneficial to maybe just even uncover that because so many of us are just unconscious, to begin with. We're not even aware. But I went through the talk therapy thing and it was super helpful.
I realized all these things about me, but I got to a point where I'm like, "Okay, I get it now. I get, I have these things, but I need them to be fixed. I need something that actually helps me unwind this and form different belief patterns, right?"
Tara Wagner: Right. Exactly. There's so much benefit. I think one of the biggest benefits of having a therapist or a counselor is a safe place to go to process, and to be heard. For somebody to call you out and be like, "Whoa, Whoa, where we're going right now is not helpful. Let's steer in this direction." But just that space, we're lacking that conscious space where we can really talk about these things without somebody looking at us like we're crazy.
Even though every single person deals with these things, thinks about these things, feels these things. It's universal across the board and yet, if we start to talk about them, it's like, "Oh, she's crazy. Ooh, what's wrong with her? Girl needs help." Oh yeah, we do.
Kendra: We do need it, it's fine. I only wonder what people think about me when I tell them I have three counselors. I have a whole team of counselors with all the crap going on in my head. But I think when it comes to business, what a lot of new coaches, especially health coaches come up against is how much they get in their own way. I don't think people realize how much of online business in general is mindset.
Sometimes I say 80%, I'm pulling that number out of my butt but I think it's a huge portion of it. It's like, "Sure, you can learn the funnels and the sales, and the marketing, and all that stuff. But if you don't deal with your mindset and your blocks, and your limiting beliefs, you will just continually prevent yourself from succeeding," correct?
Tara Wagner: Yeah. You're not the only one that says 80%, it's kind of the 80/20 rule, right? 80% of it is our mindset, 20% of it is our strategy. You need good strategy but if you don't feel solid behind that strategy, you can have the best strategy in the world for a funnel. But in the back of your mind, if you're thinking, "Who the hell am I? I don't belong here. Nobody should pay me. This is complete crap. What am I doing?"
All of that is going to come out in that strategy and so your strategy is just going to flop. It makes a huge difference and no, it's not the only thing we need to address, but it is the thing we need to make sure is solid because it's the foundation. Anything you're building, if you're building it on a rocky foundation or a wiggly foundation ... [inaudible 00:10:21] foundations wiggle, a shaky foundation, it's not going to be solid.
You're not going to have a solid business. That was me and my first business. I had a great skill. I had a good business plan. There were holes in it because of my mindset that I didn't notice and I had potential. I had a great marketplace, I had great marketing, I was doing really well.
But I kept stopping myself because of what was going on in the back of my mind that I didn't even want to become conscious of. Because it was so uncomfortable to look at those ideas of like, "Am I good enough or who the hell am I? Or all of those things." All of the opportunity was there but I couldn't reach out and grab it, because my head wasn't in the right place.
Kendra: Yeah. Absolutely. That makes so much sense and I think a lot of listeners are going to have [inaudible 00:11:16] moments as we go through what we're talking about today. But can you clarify to our listeners, we're talking about impostor syndrome, what is that like, how does that actually manifest?
Tara Wagner: Yeah. Impostor syndrome is the outward appearance of having it all together, while inside you feel sick to your stomach because you think that you are a fraud. It is literally the thing, here's a great example. I see this one the most. Women will say, "I just need one more certificate and then I can launch this business. Or I just need one more training, or I need a couple letters behind my name." That's imposter syndrome [inaudible 00:11:56].
It's usually a rock in our stomach. It's usually a constricting healing in our throat or our chest when we think about putting ourselves out there or talking about what we do to other people. If we think about going to a network events and we just have the shrinking feeling of like, "Oh my gosh, that's where all the real professionals are. I don't belong there." That's impostor syndrome.
But the most important thing is that; outwardly, we look bad ass. We look hot, our stuff looks good. Inwardly, we're the hot mess.
Kendra: Right. Yeah. That's such a great way to describe it. You described it perfectly, especially for health coaches because I see it all the time. They get their IIN certificate or ITN, or FDN, or whatever it is, which really is enough education to be successful. But then they're like, "Oh well, I should get this certification. I should get a certified in essential oils. Oh, I need to do a homeopathy."
They just end up with 10 different certifications, yet they haven't taken any training on business. They haven't put themselves out there or shown up, or really taken any sort of action in their business because they're just waiting. They think they continually need more knowledge. But what I like to say is, I think an expert is someone who just knows a little bit more than someone else, right?
Tara Wagner: Right. Absolutely. The thing that we really get to understand is that we can't get to that expert status without actually taking the path, and putting in the hours and the real life practice. You don't get to be the best cardiologists in the world unless you put in 10 or 20 years of trial and error, and research, and testing things, and listening to your patients, and really delving in deeply into your craft.
But that means paying patience from day one. You don't get to do all of that unless you have real patience. It's the same thing with coaching or I see it a lot in photography, anything like that. Where if you really want to be the expert, the only way to get there is to get out and start doing the things that will bring you to that expert status.
Kendra: Absolutely. Yeah. It's exactly true. The only thing that's ever going to make you feel good enough and that you actually know a topic really well, is actually just getting out there and doing it. But I'll say, if you've gone to IIN or FDN or whatever it is, you already have everything you need. You already know so much more than the average person, you are an expert. You're only going to go up from there, but not unless you actually do the work.
Tara Wagner: Absolutely. Because the thing is, if we just allow that thought in the back of our mind of like, "I'm not there yet, I'm not good enough yet," it'll start holding us back. We'll sit in the back of the room when we're at event, we won't speak up. When we have a thought or when we're ... If we're at a party and somebody's talking about needing something or having some challenge with something that we can solve, we won't speak up to it, right?
We won't go after big opportunities. We will feel that insecurity and will lack that confidence in our gifts, in our current abilities. Then because of that, therefore never develop them to their full potential. We end up staying small or we end up playing, wait, how did I say this before? We end up staying small because we're playing small, right? If you want to be bigger, you got to play bigger. That's the only way. My husband, he does CrossFit.
He doesn't get to this point where he can with these big heavy weights, by lifting the small weights. He gets there by, he started with the small weights and then he got the bigger weights, and the bigger weights, and the bigger ... That's the only way to really grow, is to pick up something that is too heavy for your muscles. Literally that's the way our muscles grow is like, "Oh, this is too heavy. I need to send more resources to this area."
It's the same thing in our business. We will not grow without getting uncomfortable and putting ourselves into situations that [cause quarrel 00:16:10].
Kendra: Yeah. Absolutely. Can you speak a little bit to maybe the connection between ego and impostor syndrome?
Tara Wagner: Oh, it's one and the same. Okay, let me get on my [inaudible 00:16:26] a little bit. Here's my thing of impostor syndrome. It is an inherently selfish and self-centered experience. Because it is our mind saying, "The only thing that matters is what other people think of me." For everybody, especially those that are in a health business, you're here to serve other people. It's no longer about you. You get to get yourself out of the way.
You get to be imperfect. You get to get criticized. Sometimes, you get to make terrible mistakes and embarrass yourself because it's not about you. For me, ultimately we're getting deep on this real fast.
Tara Wagner: For me, impostor syndrome, it's ego. It is you allowing yourself to be self-indulgent and self-centered because you are taking your eyes off of what actually matters. You're here to serve other people. You're here to make an impact. That means even humbly doing so, you get to show up just as you are. You may suck at it and that doesn't matter because you are here to serve other people, not yourself.
Kendra: Yeah. I think a lot of it is like this maybe self-protection, self-preservation thing, right? Because getting out there online is really uncomfortable. Putting your shit out to a bunch of strangers on the internet is weird. That's not normal. We're in this first generation of people who are actually doing this, right? It's uncomfortable and your ego, your self-preservation wants to protect you and it's like, "Don't do that. That's scary. Keep doing it if you feel like it's safe," right?
Tara Wagner: Absolutely. I love that you called it that because I really dislike the topic of self-sabotage, because our egos are never trying to sabotage us, ever. Our ego is trying to protect us and our ability to meet our needs. What impostor syndrome really is, is a desire to be loved, to be appreciated, to connect with other people. Those are very legitimate needs. Those needs should not go anywhere and they're not going to go anywhere.
All impostor syndrome is, is a belief that those needs are going to be threatened if we show up to do this thing that we worry that we're not quite good enough for. That's all it is. It's a self-protection mechanisms to make sure that we can continue to meet our needs. One of the strategies that people really need to practice when it comes to overcoming impostor syndrome is look at, "What are my needs right now?"
Because emotions, the only thing emotions are, are signals of our needs. Unhealthy or somebody might call negative emotions, are signals of unmet needs or needs that are being threatened. Positive emotions are signals of needs that are being met. If we're feeling anxious, if we're feeling afraid, all that's telling us is, "I have a need that either is not being met or that is being threatened right now or I perceive as being threatened right now."
If we can identify what that need is and focus on meeting that need, a lot of times the fear will go away with it. Our mind just wants to know that we're not ignoring these other aspects that are really important to us.
Kendra: Yeah. Do you think with impostor syndrome, is that something that you can coach your clients to not have it all and go away, or is it something that you feel will continually show its head as time goes on, but you just have better strategies to actually deal with it?
Tara Wagner: It varies. I have seen it completely go away for some people. For most people, that's not the case. For most people, it just is a different experience. Instead of it being this, "Oh my gosh, what's everybody thinking of me? I'm terrified, I can't move. I'm paralyzed." Instead of it being that it's like, "Oh, there's that old friend again, he hi by and move on." It's just, Oh what's the word I'm looking for?
It's just weakens, right? It's lost its emotional charge. It's there but it doesn't have the same impact. Over time, depending on how much energy we put into cultivating the alternative, we can get to the point where it never comes up or rarely comes up. But that does take a lot of practice and a lot of focus.
Kendra: Yeah. I agree. I was having a conversation with a coach not that long ago and I was just telling her, because she's just like, "Well, I just need to do this and that I won't be scared." I'm like, "Do you realize that the fear doesn't really go away? Every time you do something new and you launch a new program, or a new service, or you make a pivot in your business, you're going to experience fear. It doesn't actually go away. You just get to the point where it doesn't hold you back from taking action."
She was like, "Oh, I thought it just went away." I'm like, "No, everyone has fear. Doing something different is always scary, but it's not like it just goes away for any of these mindset blocks we probably come across. It's about actively working on them regularly," right?
Tara Wagner: I think what happens when you do get to the point where you're really practice and you're really competent in something, what happens is that the fear shifts. You don't perceive it as fear anymore. You have the same sensations but it's not fear behind it, it's excitement, right? Because they're so closely related in the body. The only difference is, what's the thought like pushing that sensation out.
That's really what happens. Before this podcast, I felt the same thing. I was like, "Ooh, I got some butterflies. Oh okay, my throat is tightening up a little bit." That's just my signal of, "Oh, I'm doing something fun. I'm doing something good." Because if I'm not feeling that, I'm not challenging myself, I'm not putting myself out there. But now instead of 10, 15 years ago, that would've been like, "Oh my gosh, I can't do this. My throat's going to close up, I'm not going to be able to speak. I'm going to make a fool out of myself."
All of those thoughts would have come with that sensation. Now my automatic habit when that sensation comes up is, "All right, take a deep breath. Let's center ourselves. Let's remind ourselves why we're here, who are we here to serve? What are we about?" And it shifts. That sensation where it would have lasted, honestly, I probably would've felt it like three days prior to the interview and then just been sick all the way through it.
Now it's like 30 seconds and then it just shifts right back into like, "Where are we going from here?" It's just an experience and you don't have the meaning that we applied to it. Like, "Oh man, do we love to apply meetings to things that aren't always that meaningful."
Kendra: Yeah. So true.
Tara Wagner: You mentioned earlier too that, oh-
Kendra: Go ahead.
Tara Wagner: You mentioned earlier that it was so common. One of the things that I like to point out to people is, it's incredibly common. The research that's been done on it says that probably about 70% of people deal with it at some point. Then it comes up any time you are doing something new and big, which basically means if you're doing something of value. What I try to remind people is that, the 30% of people who aren't experiencing this are probably ... They're not superhuman person who just has it all together.
They're probably the portion of the population who are calling it in. They don't have big goals, that are not pushing their boundaries. They're not getting outside their comfort zone. They not trying to make a difference. They're waking up, going to work, coming back, watching TV, going to bed, repeating, right? These are people who are in a comfortable place. The reason why it is so prevalent amongst entrepreneurs is because you are constantly pushing at that boundary, you're constantly putting yourself into a new position.
It's like once you make it to five figures, then you're pushing six. When she make it to six, she's like, "Can I do multiple six." You're always, always, always expanding, which I think is a really good thing. There's three things in life that will grow you. I call them people growing machines. One of them is marriage, the second one is parenting and the third one is owning your own business. All of those will require you to not get comfortable.
You have to continue trying new things, put yourself into new situations. As soon as you have it figured out, something changes. It's just the nature of what we're doing. It's important to understand that if you're feeling it, it means you're on the right track. Because it's the high achievers that feel it the most. All of the research will show that every high achiever will feel impostor syndrome.
I always tell people, "Congratulations. You're in good company. That means you're actually doing something about you."
Kendra: Yeah. Oh, I love that. That's so interesting. Yeah, speaking to the people who are living inside their comfort zone, there's nothing wrong with that. A lot of people, they just put comfort and security really hard values, and I hear your dog. That's totally okay and that's fine, but if you want to have a business, you can't run an online business while just hanging out in your comfort zone.
It just doesn't happen. It's really important to realize that you have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable.
Tara Wagner: Exactly. Those are my thoughts, exactly. We get to ... Okay.
Kendra: Cute dog.
Tara Wagner: She's just a menace. She's just been such anxious little girl since our other one passed.
Kendra: Oh, that's sad. Oh, oh.
Tara Wagner: Now she's happy. She's on my lap.
Kendra: That's good. We are dog friendly here on the Health Biz Podcast.
Tara Wagner: I'm telling you, it's like a toddler. You can leave them home alone but they're just as needy sometimes.
Kendra: So true. I would totally think that would be true.
Tara Wagner: Yeah.
Kendra: All right. Let's talk about some strategies because I think now we've shown the audience that what they might be feeling and now we've given it a name. Because they've probably experienced those things, but maybe they don't know that it's a thing. It's impostor syndrome and that's something that we all go through, especially as high achievers.
When you coach people, what type are you getting doing visualizations, are you reframing beliefs, are you doing meditation stuff, what does that look like?
Tara Wagner: When I'm working one-on-one with somebody, it's going to be very unique to their personality and what really speaks to them. But when I'm talking about it like this, there's a few things that I like to teach. The first thing is that, in order to do any of this work, we have to detach our emotions from the work you're about to do. It's very important to remember that feelings are not facts.
We really love to glorify them in our culture. We really love to talk about them as though they're just so amazing. They are important, but they are not as important as we often say they are. The reason that we need to detach them is, because as you're going into impostor syndrome, you're going to come up against some stuff that does not feel good.
It's important to take a stance of non-attachment in that, so being able to observe the feelings and not believe the feelings, right? Because otherwise what happens as we start digging into this stuff, we hit on something that feels terrible. Then we just wallow in it and we feel terrible, and we quit our business. Instead of, "Okay, I'm noticing this feeling and what's that telling me about my deeds, how do I want to approach this, oh, isn't that interesting?"
Kind of going into it like a curious observer and just watching what comes up as it comes up. We really need to look at this from a more logical place, because impostor syndrome is so emotional. It's so untrue and so bringing in that logical mind is really important. That's always the first step of, just mentally prepare yourself. I know it's not a very practical step.
Which is kind of mentally prepare yourself of like, "Okay, some stuff is going to come up, how do I want to deal with that when it comes up? What do I want to say to myself or remind myself when I start to feel maybe some shame or anything like that, that might come up as I'm digging into this process?" That's always the first one, to kind of set that intention of, "I'm in control here. My emotions don't get to tell me what we're doing."
Kendra: Yeah. I love that because it's like, just because you think it doesn't mean it's true.
Tara Wagner: Absolutely. Amen. Hallelujah. I need it on a t-shirts and a tattoo, and a business card to pass around to a lot of people I know.
Kendra: Yeah. It's so true.
Tara Wagner: I'd like to coach people that we know.
Kendra: Yeah. I love that and that was one of the first things I learned when I started doing talk therapy. I was like, "Oh, just because I feel this and it's having this effect on my, physically and emotionally doesn't mean it's actually a true story." A lot of times it was not a true story. It was just some random story I had created in my head that wasn't actually true.
Tara Wagner: Exactly. It gets imprinted because of a situation or maybe messages that we just repeatedly heard. But that doesn't make it real, especially when most of those messages were created from the mind of a child. It didn't have all the understanding. They didn't understand the difference between I did a bad thing and I'm a bad person. We take in these messages from a really limited and sometimes worked perception or perspective.
Then we just go about believing that they're true, because the mind is actually designed to reinforce its own beliefs. Everything that has seeds, it will say, "Oh that, I'm going to use this as a way to reinforce my belief." If it sees something to the alternative, if it sees something that contradicts its belief, it'll just call that the exception to the rule. Like, "Oh, that's just that one."
It's like if somebody gives you a compliment and you're like, "Oh no, but I really suck. I was good at that, but I really actually suck at this," right? That's just what your mind does. It will hold on to its belief and so you just continue to believe that belief that you believe it. We never questioned that because we're not taught to question our thoughts and our emotions.
A lot of times, we're either taught to ignore our emotions or we're taught to glorify them. There's no middle healthy ground of, yes, our emotions are signals that we need to listen to, but we need to make sure that they're not running the show.
Kendra: Yeah. Something came to mind when you were saying that and I think this is a quote from maybe Louise Hay. That was the first sort of mindset book. It's called, You Can Heal Your Life. It was the first mind that really started to make me realize that I was manifesting some certain things that I might say, I was having the same experience overall with dating and relationships.
I just couldn't find one and I eventually realized that it was me perpetuating that situation. I think what she said is that, "Your beliefs form your reality and then your reality confirms your belief." It just this vicious cycle, if you continue to say, "There is no men in this town, I'll never find a relationship. I'm never going to find someone to love. I'm never going to find someone to settle down with."
I'm just going to keep having that experience. Then that's just going to reinforce what I believe about relationships, right?
Tara Wagner: Because how can we see anything if we're wearing a blue tinted glasses? Everything we're seeing is going to be blue. How could it be anything other than that until we realize, "Oh, I've got these blue tinted glasses on me, let me take these off and then see what it looks like."
Tara Wagner: It's, how could it be any other way, that's just the mechanisms of the brain. That's just how your mind works. It's not a bad thing, it's a little outdated and it doesn't grow with us.
Kendra: Yeah. Exactly. There was one belief that I come up all the time and it's just so funny because I get people saying, "I can't raise my prices because people in this area can't pay that." I'm like, "Do you realize that's just your perception, you actually have not seen into those people's bank accounts. You have no idea what they can and can't afford. That's just something you're telling yourself. You're telling me in this whole city of 200,000 people, that you can't find 50 people to pay for your services? Think about that."
Tara Wagner: Exactly. Now if you live in a town of 100 and it's in the middle of a low income, sure, I'll give you that.
Kendra: Yeah. Totally.
Tara Wagner: But you're right, the majority of people are surrounded by opportunity. I was in my business, right, but you just can't see because you can't see past your own nose, really.
Tara Wagner: Yeah. That first step is really about setting that intention. The second step is about digging into the experience of impostor syndrome itself. What I tend to tell people to do is journal about it. The reason that I like pens and paper journaling is it slows you down enough, that you can actually get into more of the unconscious or even just the less conscious, right? Not necessarily unconscious, but things that we can zoom my life, we're just typing answers out.
Asking ourselves the questions of, "What was the situation where I was experiencing this, or what situation am I afraid of that might bring this up? What are the thoughts around that situation? How do I feel, how does my body feel in those situations? What are my beliefs or my worries, right?" Because sometimes the beliefs are completely unconscious. We might really be aware of them and we might be completely unaware of them, but the worries not so much and that it's often really closely related to the beliefs.
What am I worrying about is going to happen. For me, I always had this thought in the back of my mind. I don't know where this image came from, but this is just the way the brain works. I pictured people with pitchforks running me out of town, I have no idea why. I live in a big city, I must've seen something somewhere as a child. I have no idea.
Kendra: It's funny.
Tara Wagner: But impostor syndrome, it looked like a crowd of angry people, maybe with pitchforks or maybe just with this, but they were just charging me out of town, that's what it was for me. Spend some time, really understand the entire experience that you're having around it. Oftentimes, you're going to see some things come up that you weren't even aware of. Many times, not always, at least a layer of that impostor syndrome will fall away or it'll get a little bit lighter just through the awareness of it.
You'll have kind of an aha moment or you'll realize how silly it is to think people with pitchforks are going to come after you, and you can talk yourself down from the ledge a little bit. Then from there, it's really about looking at the impact that it's had on you. I will take people through some exercises and generally I will have people do this on their own. Because if we have somebody watching us during this process, what will end up happening is, we'll filter.
I would never have told anybody 10 years ago about people with pitchforks. I barely could admit it to myself, I'm not going to tell someone else even if it was a therapist or a coach. Just taking the time to look at these things yourself and look at, "What impact has this had on me, where would I be in my life right now if I didn't deal with this?" Now, this doesn't mean that where you are right now isn't good enough.
If I look at it, I'm like, "Well gosh, I would've probably still been in my other business and I probably would've scaled that, and kind of glad that I didn't do that." That's not the point though. The point is to realize just how much further I could've been as a person or in my own personal goals if I didn't have this thing just dogging me all the time telling me, "I'm not good enough, I'm not good enough," and constantly holding me back.
Because for most people, impostor syndrome looks like going 70% of the way, right? Never really giving it your all and then being able to blame that when you don't actually experience success. "Well, I didn't do this. I didn't do that. I could've done it, but didn't." It keeps us in that safe comfort zone, right? Really looking at those things and looking at how is this causing you harm, how is it trying to keep you safe but really keeping you from the things that you've wanted.
Where could you have been in your life at this point if you had dealt with this five years from now? This is a little bit of a painful step for people. I actually will tell people, "If you don't know that you can do this objectively, if you really think that it might spiral you down a little bit, don't do it." It's not a necessary step but I find that it helps to create the motivation to stop ignoring the problem, right?
Because then it's like, "You know what, am I going to allow the next five years?" There's a difference between living five years and living the same year five times, which one am I going to allow? "Do I still want to be dealing with this in five years or do I want to really confront this?" They said, "Take it head on and change it." Hopefully the answer is, yes.
Kendra: Yeah. I love that because I think pain is a big motivator, right? People make decisions and take action based on emotion more than they do anything else. For me when I started my business, I just had a knee injury, I was working in forestry. I was trying to be a professional skier, all of which I needed my knee for. I was like, "I need to do something else," so I started an online business and it was terrifying.
But the fear of, "If I don't do this, I'm not going to have a job. I'm going to have to move back to the city, from the beautiful small towns that they live in because there's no jobs here," right? That pain was such a big motivator for me and so I think it can be a really good motivator. But you're right, people have to be okay with going into a dark place.
Tara Wagner: Yeah. It's not appropriate for everybody. There's been times in my life where that was not what I needed to do, and so have a level of self-awareness of like, "Is this going to be helpful for me?" But don't shy away from it. We live in a world right now that is all about fluffy mindset work and like, "Let's stroke the ego and make ourselves feel good." That's not real mindset work.
Real mindset work is to look at all sides of it and develop ourselves even when it's tough, even when it's messy, even when we really don't want to get up early and meditate. It's about doing the things that don't necessarily always feel great. Again, we don't want to wallow in it. Feelings aren't facts, but we do want to use the mechanisms in our brain. There's two things that motivate us, pain and pleasure.
When it boils down to it, we're just big giant mammals and it's pain and pleasure, and so use both of them, right? The next thing that I'll have people do is look at, where might you be without this, what could be created, what might happen? Again, this is the same thing. Some people will avoid this question because it's too scary. That's okay, take the steps that you can take and be okay with that.
If you can't take the big giant leap forward, pull a Bill Murray, take the little tiny baby steps and then guess what? If you're hiking up a mountain, right, when you get halfway up, the second half doesn't look that far away anymore. It doesn't feel that big and scary. Take the step that feels okay now and be at peace with that, and come back to the next step when you're ready to come back to the next step.
If that's six weeks from now or six months from now, or two years from now ... I hate to break it to you but you're never going to stop growing and you're never going to get there in this lifetime. The whole point is to just do this work. So just do the work and make peace with the fact that you're not going to have it all together. None of us do, we like to look like we do on Instagram.
Kendra: Absolutely. I love that analogy because I'm a crazy mountain woman. It's so true, when I hike mountains where you're at the bottom and you're like, "Holy fuck, that is a long way off." But you gain elevations so quickly, even when you're hiking super slow. All that matters is that you're putting one foot in front of the other and you're moving forward.
Tara Wagner: Yeah. If I were to stand at the bottom of a staircase and be like, "I need to get to that top step in one stretch," I'm going to hurt myself, right? But if I get to the first step and I'm like, "Oh, that's a little closer and that's a little closer, and that's a little closer," but we don't do that. We're living in a culture right now of instant gratification and so if you don't get there overnight, we think that we're failures.
I would encourage you to look at any successful person that you admire and find them in a podcast, in a book, in a blog post, in an interview talking about their journey and their mistakes, and how long it took them to create that overnight success. Because it's just not real. It's just a fabrication of our current media right now, and it's not intentional.
It's just the way that things look and the way our brains perceive them. It's doing more harm than good if we're not paying attention to it.
Kendra: Yeah. I think comparison is a really, we all do it. It happens and [inaudible 00:42:59] easy when you're new. You're like, "I'll have health coaches look at my business," and they're like, "You put out so much content. It's crazy, I just don't know how you do that." I'm like, "Yeah, because I have a whole team. The only thing I do and my business now is create content, my team runs the rest of the business for me."
Four years ago, I was doing everything so I wasn't everywhere and I was struggling to get content out. It's just like you can't compare your business to someone else's who's at a different place in their journey. Nobody really blows up overnight, I don't think that happens. Maybe it's happened to the odd person, but it's like they [inaudible 00:43:34] the exception, the way up.
Tara Wagner: If it happened to that odd person, were they able to sustain it?
Tara Wagner: Because most of the time, I think of this all the time, I'm like, "Would I be ready if Oprah called?" I don't know where I heard that question. It wasn't my question, heard it somewhere else. But I'm like, "Oh, snap. No, I wouldn't." Then my next question is, "Okay, what would take me one step closer to being ready when Oprah called?" Because the truth is, that kind of success you've got to build up to, it's like the muscles in the gym, right?
You can't go in and lift a 400 pound weight without putting in some years of practice to get to the point where you can sustain that type of success. It's the same with our business. I know that people hear this all the time, "Don't compare your beginning to someone else's middle or end." But what I want people to do when they are doing that, to keep it practical. Because it's not very helpful to say don't compare, because our brains are actually designed to compare.
We're going to compare, we're not going to stop it. Compare better. If there's somebody in your industry that you admire, you love their business, you love what they're doing and you want to do what they're doing, scroll back on their Instagram feed to when they started and compare, "Okay, what were they doing then and what am I doing, did this work for them? Where did they really start to gain traction and what were they doing around that time?"
Learn from those things, but learn from their beginning. Actually do the work to compare yourself to the right place in their trajectory.
Kendra: I agree.
Tara Wagner: Because in 10 years, they're going to now be 20 years ahead of you. You're going to always feel like you're chasing something, instead of just learning the things that you need to learn to build the business that you want to build.
Kendra: Yeah. I love that actually. That's a really good idea because yeah, it's true. We do compare ourselves regardless, but we're all different people and we're all in different places. We should use comparison maybe as a tool to grow or as [crosstalk 00:45:33] right?
Tara Wagner: Leverage it. It's going to happen, you're going to compare so learn how to do it in a healthy way. I actually have a whole video on this, on YouTube of, I think it's called how to stop comparing. But really it's about how to do it better, how to make sure that you're doing it in a healthy way. One of those ways might be, put some freaking blinders on, then subscribe from these people.
It's just not necessary and you're losing your voice trying to emulate someone else's. But when you do compare and do so when you're feeling healthy, right? We all have days when the last place we should be is on Instagram, looking at our competitor's feed. Then we have our days where we're like, "We got our shit together, we're feeling good, we can do this."
Use those moods to do that research and learn what worked for them and how can I apply this to my business. Leverage what's going to naturally happen in our brains to benefit you, versus harm you.
Kendra: Right. I love that. What would you say is one thing, one small step that our listeners could do today to maybe help with this situation with impostor syndrome?
Tara Wagner: It's not a small step. It's probably the most important step and that is; practice the shit out of it. Everybody wants to say, "Oh, that's not me. I'm just not good on Facebook live, that's just not who I am. I'm not a public speaker. I'm an introvert." I'm sorry, I'm going to lay down some tough love here. Introvert does not mean social anxiety. Introvert does not mean shy. Introvert does not mean you can't run your business.
Introvert does not mean you cannot be a great speaker. Introvert means after you do those things, you need to go rest because you're tired. You just gave all your energy away. That's what introvert means. We need to practice the mindset that we want to emulate because all of our mindsets, whether it's impostor syndrome or some other fear, or overwhelm, or whatever it might be, all they are is habits. You're not faking it till you make it, you're practicing a new habit until you develop it.
That's all it is. Outline literally, "What would I do without impostor syndrome? If I loved and approved to myself, even though I had gaps; skill gaps, experience gaps. Experience gaps, things that I'm not happy with. Even if I had those things, but I still liked myself. I still knew I was in the right place, doing the right thing at the right time, what would I do? What would I say? How would I show up? How would I hold my body? What would the expression on my face look like?"
Then practice that. Practice it in your bathroom, practice it before you get on a call. Practice it before you go to a networking event. Practice it before you get on an airplane. Literally practice who you want to be. Because who you are right now is only that, because you've done decades of practice. Thankfully, it doesn't take decades of practice to change it around, it might just take a few conscious efforts for you to really start seeing that traction.
But that is the most important thing. Mindset work really truly, does not happen in your mind. It happens when you hit pavement, when you start putting it into real life. If you're not doing that, you're not going to see changes. You can journal, you can meditate. I'm a big meditator, don't get me wrong. But if you're meditating to change your personality or to grow as a person, it's not going to happen until you practice those things.
Your body needs to experience it for your mind to finally fully get it. There's no other way around. I wish there was, I wish I could make it easier. It's going to be awkward and you're going to hate it, but that's why you practice in your bathroom first. Then you slowly just [intro 00:49:35] way into the next little step.
Kendra: Yeah. I love that. I love the idea of practicing for who you want to be. I noticed actually, just sometimes there's a small things that you can do too. I noticed that I became way more confident when I stopped working in front of my desk in my pajamas. Every day I get up, I make myself look nice. Nice, like I'm going to a job. At the end of the day, I clean off my desk, I wipe it down, I clean the office.
I make everything look professional and I get up like I'm going to a real job every day. Because before, I used to just hang up my pajamas in bathroom all day. I'm like, "That didn't work for me."
Tara Wagner: It's so true because, again, what our body does, our mind is interpreting. If we're showing up in our PJ's and there's nothing wrong with that. I've had years of working in my PJ's. I got a lot done, I created some success and it was awesome. But there will come a time in everybody's business where you'll notice that what got you here, won't get you there, right? You'll have to make some sort of shift and I had the same shift.
There's something magical about putting on your best pair of shoes when you're just going into your home office. You step into bad-ass mode, like, "I've got my boots on, we're going to kick some butt today." It's the same as, if you just start smiling, right? It changes the way that you feel. What we do affects how we show up. Absolutely, take a shower, do your hair, do your makeup. It doesn't have to be like the full thing.
But if you're showing up as your best damn self, if you were really owning what you do, who you are, how you do it, what would that look like? Maybe that is yoga pants, rock on but do it consciously. Consciously create that mindset because what's happening right now is, the mindsets getting created. Everything we do is created in the mindset. But most of the time it's just unconscious. It's haphazard, it's kind of thrown together and it's usually not very helpful.
Kendra: Yeah. I totally agree. I love that. When I work with people I'm always like, "Tell me what your perfect work day looks like. What are you doing, what do you do when you get up in the morning, what types of appointments do you have?" It seems to be a really hard question for people to answer, because they're not even really sure what, maybe even they want that to look like.
Tara Wagner: Yes. Or don't even know what it could look like. I remember that question being asked of me and it took me years to be able to create my ideal routine. It really happened because of trial and error, like, "Well, let me just start with this and see how that works. Oh, you know what? This is really causing a problem. Let me shift that." Again, these things take time, there's no overnight success in our morning routines either.
But there's just something powerful about consciously designing what we want to live, what we want to experience. Like I said, it's not easy. I think that it can be easy but it's probably not going to be for most people, because we're not very enlightened beings and so we're going to bring all of our challenges into it. That's what makes it not easy. But if we can just make peace with that, the process starts to unfold and it gets easier. Even though we're doing all this hard work, it just doesn't feel the same way anymore.
It doesn't feel as hard. It's just like going to the gym. You don't love it at first but you keep going because you know you need it. After a while, you want to go, you crave it. You still love it, like, "I will still rather be in bed at 4:30 in the morning," but I get up and I meditate because I know I'm going to feel good later. It's the same thing, we put in the work now for the benefits down the road.
Kendra: Yeah. I just really love when people realize that they can create and design their own lives in whichever way that they want to. We see so many people in victim mode who think everything's just happening to them, and I can see that in someone and just feel sad because I'm just man-like. If they just took personal responsibility and started being aware of how they were creating their own experience, they could have their dream life, right?
Tara Wagner: Yeah. Exactly. That really brings it back to that value of freedom for me. That's really where I was, of just feeling trapped to my own thoughts and emotions and so many people don't realize they're even trapped. That is the one thing. If I can leave one message on this world when I die, it's that, it's up to you what you perceive 100%. I'm not even talking about law of attraction and attracting what you desire or anything like that.
I'm talking about just basic brain mechanics. What you focus on is how you feel. You can literally create pretty much any personality you want, any outcome you want, if you're willing to put in the work and do it. If there's something in your life that you don't like, you can change it. If you're willing to do the work now, that work might be easy for some people and hard for other people based on where you're starting.
But it's still ultimately a choice. If it's not serving you, if it's not serving other people, when are you going to let it go?
Kendra: Yeah. Totally. Oh, love it. I love it. Well, can you let us know, Tara, how listeners can connect with you and learn more from you if they wanted to do some of this work?
Tara Wagner: Absolutely. I actually have a workbook that I put together that you guys are welcome to have. If you go to xoTara.us/isworkbook, so impostor syndrome workbook, what I've actually done is take in and broken down eight steps. Some of which we've talked about today, some of which we haven't, that people can walk through to start this process. Really in a powerful way, I really tried to put some real coaching in there.
I tell people all the time, "I'm a tough coach, not a fluff coach." I didn't put a lot of fluff in there. It's real practical, tangible steps to really give people some guidance on like, "What can I do with this, how can I really overcome this?" It's xoTara.us/isworkbook. They can download that for free. You can find me on YouTube @TaraWagner and I do weekly coaching videos there, so lots of practical, tangible stuff.
I tried to keep it really down to earth because I know how frustrating it is to talk about mindset and then walk away and go, "But how do I do that?" Then Instagram @TaraWagner, as well.
Kendra: Cool. Yeah. We will make sure to link to all of that in the show notes. I was just creeping on your YouTube channel. It looks like you've got lots of great videos there. I'm a big fan of YouTube so I was like, "Yeah."
Tara Wagner: You do?
Kendra: Awesome. Well thank you so much, Tara, and thank you to all our listeners. We appreciate you hanging out with us and having this very uncomfortable, but hopefully enlightening conversation. Make sure to connect with Tara if you are noticing that in yourself. I'm sure she has lots of fantastic tips in her free workbook. I will see you guys in a week from now and in two weeks from now, hopefully it will be me with my compadre, Christine again. Hopefully she'll be back from gallivanting the world. Thank you so much guys, and I'll see you guys in the next episode.
In my five years as a health coach, I created and successfully launched five different group programs! And in my experience doing this and also from the fact that I also launched a few failures, I have learned there is an optimal timeline that's really important for you to stick with if you want to successfully launch and monetize a group program with your health coaching clients. And trust me, you do want to make money when you launch your group program because they are a ton of work.
When it comes to group coaching programs, I see a lot of health coaches jumping the gun, meaning that they are creating and launching a group program before they are ready and before they have actually validated it. This results in limited sales that leads to frustration, poverty, and even something I call "launch trauma". In order for you to be successful launching a group program, you need to make sure you are in the right place in your business journey or there is a very likely chance that this isn't going to be successful for you at all.
In order for you to determine if you're in the right place to even start considering launching a group program, let's sit down and answer the following questions.
1) are you working with private clients?
2) have you been working with clients for at least a year?
3) have you generated at least 10 testimonials from clients who have seen results in your signature coaching program?
4) are you generating at least 4 to $5,000 per month with coaching clients?
5) are you actively working on building your email list?
If the answer is no to any of these questions, that tells me that you're probably not ready to launch a group program, even if some other expert has told you otherwise.
If you haven't worked with any private clients and you don't have experience, that means you haven't gotten a result for anyone. That also means you don't actually know the questions that your ideal client is asking. You don't know what areas they need the most help in and the areas that they are challenged with more than others. I know there are so many different online experts out there that just rave about the financial gains of doing a group program. But if you don't have the experience, if you don't really know your ideal client and the questions and concerns that they have, then you don't really have a leg to stand on. In the journey to launching an online group program successfully, you need to start working with private clients. You need to validate your method. You need to get them results. You need to tweak your program and make it the absolute best before you even consider launching a group program.
I truly believe you need to be working with clients privately for at least a year before considering launching a group program. Because not only does it give you the time to get experience, to increase your confidence, to learn the things about your client, but also it gives your clients enough time to actually experience the result. Because as you know with health, it can be complex. There can be a lot of trial and error. There are people you're going to work with who are going to get results slower. And if you don't work with people for long enough, then you don't really know all the trials and tribulations that can come up as you try to work with someone to optimize their health. So I would say a year is enough time to see the deficiencies in your method, and there's always going to be some, none of us start out perfect, so that you can tweak them, make it better, and ultimately create a better method that you can actually sell as a group program.
Next we're going to discuss testimonials. Testimonials are so important. Think of the last time you bought something off Amazon. You probably scrolled down to the reviews and you looked in and saw what other people were saying. And if you saw a higher amount of bad reviews versus good reviews, then there's a good chance that you decided not to buy that product and you started looking for something different, right? The same goes for your signature coaching program. You need to prove to the buyer that you can actually get someone a result. And when it comes to testimonials, the more the better. But I think at least 10 is the minimum you need to have before considering launching a group program.
Now if you're totally confused what I mean when I keep saying signature coaching program, don't worry. Check out my video How to Create a Signature Coaching Program for Your Health and Wellness Business to learn more.
In order to be successful in launching a group program, you want to have some level of financial stability. This is because it takes the exact same amount of your energy and time to sell something that is $300 versus something that is $3,000. So if you don't have financial stability and you're struggling to pay your bills, a group coaching program is not the right way to go because it's going to take you so much more work and so much more effort to actually generate enough money to feel financially comfortable. But if you focus on working with higher-ticket coaching clients, then it's way easier to hit the amount of money that you need to pay your bills, have a little bit extra, and to feel comfortable with your financial status.
My last point is about having an active email lists or actively working on building one. This is incredibly important. When we sell a group coaching program, because it is a lower priced program, it's always going to be less than your private coaching program. So you're going to need to sell that program to more people. You don't need to have a massive list to be successful selling a group program. I only had 500 or 600 people on my email list, and I made a few thousand dollars, when I launched my first group program. But you do need to have a list to have people to sell to. But the success of you launching a group program and then future group programs is directly correlated with the size and the health of your email list. So if you don't have a list or you're not actively out there trying to build your list, then I would say this is not a great time to launch a group program. I would continue to work with private clients and focus your efforts on building that email list. And if you're interested in growing an email list but you don't know where to start, you can check out my video called How to Grow an Email List Fast as a Health Coach.
The truth is there is no exact timeline formula when it comes to launching a group program. Me personally, I think it took me about two years before I launched my first group program. So it's going to be a little bit different for everyone, and that's okay. But if you follow this timeline, you will be on track and you're way more likely to have success when it comes the time for you to launch a group program.
Okay we can’t contain our excitement! We are launching the 360 Mastermind - a life-long commitment to yourself and a year-long commitment to our method.
What is a mastermind you ask? It’s a small groups of people who have similar goals and who come together in regular intervals to brainstorm and evolve together. Running a business by yourself can be lonely, isolating and scary as sh*t. So instead of being on your own and trying to figure it out on your own, you don't need to rely on just your one brain. In a mastermind, you have a group of brains that all have their own experience, that have all invested in different educational pieces, who have had different experiences. There's so many ways that a mastermind program can catapult your business. Professionally it helps you grow, but then the emotional piece is huge which impacts both your professional and personal development.
Kendra and Christine met through FDN but quickly became business besties. They started with running a webinar series and then moved onto the 360 Health Biz Podcast. These biz besties talk on Voxer, vent to each other, reach out for support, run ideas by each other, be each other's biggest cheerleading squad and now together, they want to be YOUR biz bestie, YOUR cheerleader and YOUR business coach.
The 360 Mastermind includes three pieces of continuous education: private coaching, hot seats, and two retreats. It’s a 12-month business coaching and personal development program that will help you power-up, move past your internal B.S, get accountable, master online business strategy and DO the work you’re afraid to do so you can access the life you have always dreamed of.
Join before November 15th and we cover the cost of the 1st retreat! If you pay in full, we cover the cost of BOTH retreats! The program officially starts January 19, 2020. Interested in learning more about the 360 Mastermind? Check out the details here
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Kendra Perry: Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to another amazing, as always, episode of the 360 Health Biz Podcast. I am one of the cool hosts, Kendra Perry, but the even cooler host [inaudible 00:00:00:15], and it is Christine. She is my Biz bestie. She is my biz rock and my biz family. It's just the two of us today. We are going to be talking about a topic that we're very passionate about, and that we want to really share with you, and something that ... This is something you guys actually might be missing in your business life.
We really want to help you see how much this thing can really help take things to the next level for you. Not only professionally, but emotionally, okay? This can actually prevent you from self-imploding and having a nervous breakdown.
Christine: Yeah, I agree.
Kendra Perry: So we're going to be talking about three community biz besties and basically masterminds. Because we know as entrepreneurs, it's lonely, right? It's isolating. Usually, we are trying to build our empires from our home offices, or coffee shops all by ourselves and our friends and family don't understand what the fuck we're doing, and usually they don't support us, right? Do you agree, Chris?
Christine: Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, Kendra and I we ... I think everyone who's been listening for a while and knows that we have this super close relationship, and we are business rocks to each other because there are times when you need to vent, or when you don't see your blind spots. And so, having a community is just so, so, so important.
And so, we want to talk a little bit about masterminding and what it is, why that community is so important. So let me walk you quickly back to what a mastermind actually is. And it sounds like this evil kind of thing. Like this I'm going to take over the world kind of thing. It is a little bad. But basically, it's been going back for eons of time. You can think about King Arthur and his round table.
You had these, basically, these communities, these small groups of people who had similar goals and who were always in a position of influence, or who wanted to have same goal, who would come together in regular intervals to brainstorm. So to basically see how they could evolve together. And it's basically, instead of being on your own, trying to figure it out all on your own, you don't need to rely on just your one little brain. You have a group of brains that all have their own experience, that have all invested in different educational pieces, who have had different experiences.
So we bring it down together to entrepreneurship who've been working with different clients, who've maybe already built this six-figure or seven-figure business, who have had their own coaches. All of our experiences are different. And so basically, you get the benefit of all of these different brains helping you to basically evolve and to become a better entrepreneur yourself.
So you also had people like Henry Ford and American presidents, and all kinds of people who've had this concept forever. And I think if you're one of the people who've mentioned it a lot is Napoleon Hill, who is Think and Grow Rich. So you should have read his book if you haven't yet. That is basically what we're doing.
So personally, I've been in a few masterminds in my career. Some have been led very, very well. Some may be not so much for me. But I have to say whatever the experience was with the coach, and I'm going to go back to that later because it's such a huge question of trust. What has always been life changing for me was the connection I made with the other members, always.
So the first time I joined a mastermind was in my first year in business that is back in 2015. I still I'm in regular touch with the people who were in that group because we bonded so much. Here's the thing, you need that connection. You cannot do it alone. And sometimes you stay in the abyss of hopelessness because you had a bad month, or because you had a comment hearing again by your family most of the time. And it's just when you need that support network, and that's what a mastermind is providing you with.
And then on top of that, you have blind spots. So very often you cannot see them. It's impossible. But you have a group of other people who are shining their light on you with so much love and experience, and they will see it, and they will tell you, why don't you do this? It seems so obvious. I've just been in Tuscany a couple of weeks ago for four days of masterminding with a group of women. And not to say that it only has to be women. It can be men and women, or mixed, or whatever.
One of the first things we did was we really opened up. We really went deep, and we talked about the good and the bad and the ugly. And it immediately created this bond. I wasn't ready to quite share until the very last day, but that was when I had my breakthrough because I felt stuck with my company. I hadn't realized that I had this block of developing further.
And as it is, now I have my team. I have a licensing format for my company. It's going to grow. But I wasn't ready and I would never have done it if I hadn't had the support of that little group. And so, that's how masterminds can be. They can be online, and they can also be in person. They can be focusing on certain topics, and they can also be focusing on you. And here's the amazing thing. Sometimes they do all three.
So sometimes they have topics of continuous education each month, and they might have something that's called Hot Seats, which basically means the light is on you. You bring your question to the table and everyone will help. And then sometimes they also combine in person meetings. And here's the drum roll moment because Kendra and I, we are hosting a one year 360 mastermind in 2020, and it has all three things.
So you have continuous education. You have hot seats where it's just about you. You have one-on-one coaching by the both of us. So we have very different brains as you know, but we have both geniuses now elements. So you have both brains. And we also have two in person retreats where you actually get to meet the tribe in person. And I can tell you there's nothing like in person meetings.
Kendra and I we've only met after knowing each other for like a year for the first time, and yet I think it still brought everything to a different level. We'll just see each other for the second time in a couple of days and I can't wait. It's just different sharing some food together, and having that chat and looking into each other's eye and just be like, "Oh, it's just different."
Kendra Perry: Yeah, you can really vibe off the energy of a group when you're at those in person events. Personally, I think you can build a business all by yourself without a community, without a group of likeminded entrepreneurs with similar passions, similar goals. But I think it's going to be really hard, and I honestly think it'll take you longer.
I really credit the fast growth of my business to finding a group of people to actually bounce ideas off of. When I first started out, I mean, I'm from a small town. I don't know anyone with an online business. My friends who I've had for years still don't really get what I do. They have no idea. My parents were not supportive. My partner at the time was relatively supportive, but I couldn't talk to him about it because he was a mechanic. And he was like, "What are you talking about? You can't talk to me about this. This makes me feel crazy."
So I felt like I was spinning. That was really difficult because yeah, like you said, you have blind spots. Or sometimes you're trying to decide between three things and you can't. You're so indecisive. You're like, "I don't know. Is this better? Is this better? Is this better?" And yes, we have to test everything. But sometimes it just helps to be able to talk about that with someone else.
My first experience meeting that type of people was going to a live event. I flew down to LA for a conference after I joined the transformation, or the Institute of Transformation Nutrition. I met a few women there at this event, who I'm still in touch with. They are still health coaches running their online business. We still keep in touch.
One girl I became very close with and we literally just faced with message all day, and that was so helpful because I'm just like, "What about this? And what about this?" Because it's such new territory. And it is very isolating because you're usually not getting the support of your outside community because they don't get what you're doing, and they want you to be safe. And starting your own business is not the same option, right? And obviously, there's a lot of weird conditioning and beliefs around small business, right?
So it's not their fault. They just want you to be safe. So I have that experience and that was really awesome. And then I eventually joined a membership that used to be run by Lindsay [Patea 00:09:37] and Emily [Patch 00:00:09:36]. It was called The Funnel Playground. So it wasn't a mastermind, but it was like a membership group where we all were building our funnels, and we had the hot seat coaching, which was very cool, and the support. That's where I met our current business coach, Jamie Palmer. I actually met her in that group.
Christine: I love her.
Kendra Perry: That's where I first came into contact with Jamie Jensen, who has helped us both with our stories. She's actually been on this podcast. Actually, both Jamies have been on this podcast. So it's very cool because you connect with people who not only can help you. You can hire them, but they come into your world and then you have them on your podcast. We have both been on Jamie's podcast, right?
There's just so many ways that this can catapult your business. So professionally, it helps you grow, but then the emotional piece is huge. Like me and Christine, we actually met through functional diagnostic nutrition. It's a funny story. I shared it on an Instagram story before. But basically, I was working for FDN. I was running their graduate membership. The owner was really set on having this lecture club where it taught people how to do public speaking. I hate public speaking, which is funny because I'm actually doing public speaking this weekend.
Christine: You'll be fine.
Kendra Perry: I'm like, "I get that you want to do this, but I don't want to be the one to charge this one because I'm not an expert on this." So I was like, "I'm going to hire an interim. I'm going to bring someone in who can help me run this." And so I put out the application and a bunch of people applied. But I was the most impressed with Christine's application because you had all this public speaking experience. Your resume, I was like, "Well, this chick's for real." And [inaudible 00:11:21].
Christine: I need to pull that resume out again.
Kendra Perry: And so, I ended up hiring her. So we ended up running this webinar series together. I don't know. Maybe it was 10 webinars or something like that. We just hung out. Christine did a lot of the teaching. I was there to support, ask questions, and run the questions. We just fell in love.
Christine: Yes, we did.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, it was so fun. We just started clicking. And then maybe like six months after we met, after I had soccer working for FDN and we both ended that webinar series, I wanted to start a podcast and I wanted it to be a business podcast. I love talking about business. I love helping coaches build their business, which I learned that when I worked for FDN because I was seeing all these people struggle with their business. I was seeing all the nutritionist just being so talented and having so much knowledge, and having the ability to help so many people in this world, but not actually being able to get their message out there.
So I really wanted to start a business podcast and I was like, "I don't want to do it alone." And I was like, "Christine would be the perfect cohost." So I asked. I asked you and I think you were just like, "Fuck yes."
Christine: I'm just a spontaneous kind of person. I'm just like, "Sure, it's easy. Just set it up here, here, here." I think that's also how we complement each other because I don't think that much. I just do things really quickly. And Kendra is more of a, "Okay, I'm planning this. And I'm going to do this and this." We complement each other really well because we have different paces. She slows me down when I need to slow down, and I pick it up when we need to be calm. And it's always working really well. But it was just like, "Yeah, sure, let's do it." And then that was it.
Kendra Perry: And it happened, yeah. I don't know what episode we're on, but we probably have almost 50 episodes. We've been doing this for about just over a year. We have so much on. This is definitely my favorite thing in the business is doing these podcast episodes because we have so much fun, right?
Christine: Yeah, very true. Very true.
Kendra Perry: On top of that, we are podcast cohost. We are our business partners, but we are also business besties. We talk on Voxer. We vent to each other. We reach out for support. We've run ideas by each other. We're each other's biggest cheerleading squad. We need that. I don't actually know what I do without you, Christine.
Christine: I know, likewise. You need it. I can never go to my mom and tell her something. She would just not get it. Or she will think you're complaining hence everything is a failure, which it's not. Yeah, I think it's an episode for mental sanity and just resilience. It's just you need to also genuinely have someone who truly believes in you.
There's a difference between people who try, and those people who actually do. You can just feel it. You really need someone who I think also knows and who has walked the talk, who has been in those shoes, who's had had maybe tough times at times as well to know that you can absolutely do this, and to trust in you, and who sees things in you that you don't necessarily always see.
So that is what is helping you to move on and to not get stuck. Sometimes you need to see yourself through other people's eyes in order to actually remember how great you are.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, and I agree. And I'm sure our listeners have had this experience with health, for example. A lot of us are health coaches because we are own personal health struggle. We can be very talented health coaches who have the ability to help our clients. But when we're trying to fix our own health, that can be very difficult because you're too close to the situation, and you're emotionally involved in it. And it goes through for your business too, right?
It's hard to take a step back and look at everything through logical eyes because the truth is we're all emotional beings, and we're being driven by our emotions. Our emotions are driving our decision making, which in business is okay sometimes, but sometimes you need to move out the emotional piece, and that's where your wolf pack, your community, your business bestie really comes into play because they can be the logical ones who step back and be like, "Oh, that actually doesn't make sense." Or deciding between those two things that actually isn't what matters. Both are good, you just need to do it, right?
Christine: Exactly. And I think one thing is the prep of our podcast was always that we connected, especially through FDN. We connected with people who are beautiful people, super smart people, and have this huge mission, and who literally really want to help so many people and you can do it, but who are not necessarily as into business as we are.
I mean, not everyone works the same way that we do. Both Kendra and I are total geeks. And that's, I think, one thing that connects us. We love our tech. We love the online aspect, and we chose it. But for others it's just ... But well, Kendra is in a remote town so it was a necessary ... Not a necessary evil. It's just a welcome choice, I guess.
For me, I'm in this teeny tiny country with a language that nobody speaks. So for me, it was sudden from the beginning that I need to conquer the world. But both of us we enjoy it. We've always enjoyed it. But we really, our mission with our podcast has always been to help those who might not necessarily have the inherent passion for this, and who just need some help and need a sounding board, I would back in.
But podcasting is obviously just a one-way street. We put our content out there, and we hope we make it as easy and as enjoyable as possible. But obviously, connecting and getting feedback and being actually able to help people is another story, which is how this was basically born where we said, "Okay, let's take it to the next level."
And I think the other thing is always, Kendra and I have both been working with coaches on and off. I think what makes us different, or not necessarily different. It's just that I think we're both people who've experienced to having people be very willing to take our money. But ultimately, not necessarily really caring about the outcome. And why? You obviously always have to do the work. I think both of us are people who really, really care. I don't know anyone, really, who is as invested in our private clients as Kendra is. You wouldn't think it, but this one is quite emotional sometimes. And I love her so much for it.
Kendra Perry: I'm very emotional sometimes. It's difficult because I think you're a health coach so you got into this to help people, and you did your nutrition training. Maybe you're an FDN, maybe did IIN. There's so many different ones out there these days. But you actually need just as much education, if not significantly more education, in online marketing and sales than you do as you have in nutrition.
That is really overwhelming. And it's not your nutrition school's fault that they didn't set you up for business because business and marketing is changing. It shifts constantly. You need to be up with the trends, right? You may not be that into that, and that's okay if you're not as obsessed with it. [crosstalk 00:18:47].
Christine: Totally. Totally.
Kendra Perry: Because if your nutritionists will try to teach you online business, by the time they updated the curriculum, everything would have changed again. Right? Things are always shifting. There's new platforms. The social media algorithm they're changing. People are changing, right? Ultimately, online marketing is a game of psychology because it's all about the people and how they respond. And the world is changing. It's always changing. Technology is changing people, right?
Christine: Plus I think people are changing. You are changing. The time when you graduate to the time a year later you will be completely different. Both of us redesigned and we've done our niches, and if you know our stories you know that we both completely shifted businesses over the years. And I think now it's been pretty consistent because we've done all the work, meaning not just the marketing work. We also do obviously stay up to date with whatever's happening in the digital world.
But I think one thing that we also do very much so is the personal development piece. And I think that's something, which, unfortunately, is very often put on the back burner. And both of us are a huge believer that it's actually the first step that you need to do, even though it seems so unsexy, and you cannot see the conversion necessarily in metrics immediately. But I do honestly believe that if that is skipped over, it's doing you a huge disfavor. I mean, both of us are very, very candid about that.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think online business is almost like 8% mindset, right? Pretty much all the reasons why you're not succeeding or taking action, are blocks, right? Imposter syndrome, fear of putting yourself out there, fear of action, analysis paralysis. These are things that are not unique to you. We're all going through these, right? And we have to push through these. Your money shift. You've downloaded a whole bunch of bullshit about money from your parents, from your grandparents, from your community, and that's actually preventing you from attracting abundance, right?
And so, with a 360 mastermind, it is a business coaching program. But it's also a personal development program because we have to work through these things. I work with new coaches. Most of my clients are pretty brand new. What we end up talking about on our coaching calls is a lot less of the techie, social media, business sales shift. We're talking about the mindset. They're like, "I'm so scared of this. Nobody signed my contract. They hate me."
I'm like, "No, that's actually not about you. That's because you need to remind them because people are distracted. That's not because they hate you." Stuff like that because we make everything about ourselves. We have fear. Maybe we were bullied in high school. So we're getting triggered when a troll comes on our social media and says something nasty to us, right?
Online business will trigger you. And if you don't do the personal work, your business won't grow because it can only really grow as far as you are willing to grow. And so, we want to discuss a lot of those things as we go through this. I mean, this is where I think me and Christine's greater mission is. I've been feeling it pretty deep in my soul lately that we have a bigger message to share because the truth is when you build your dream business, you are building self, right? You're investing in yourself, and you are becoming a better person because I don't think you can build a successful business that you love without doing that personal work as well, right?
Kendra Perry: [inaudible 00:22:20].
Christine: It's daunting because you're out there. It's all of you. I do find, though, suddenly you have terms inspiring floating towards you. It's not even because they're trying to, it's just because you're finally shining as the beautiful person that you are. And we believe that you are because otherwise you wouldn't be listening to us. That's very simple. I truly believe you attract the people who jive best with you.
My best example is my team. I've just went to Bali and I trained six amazing women for my team. Super smart. The best heart I've ever seen. I was a little bit intimidated at first, to be honest. But in the end, they are exactly ... Not exactly like me. Obviously, we're all different. But I truly believe that once you shine as who you are and you actually like who you are, the same kind of people will be drawn to you.
So if you're listening to us, then I just think that you are very similar maybe at a different level. So you actually know that there's much more to this than at first sight. This gives me the tingles through it.
Kendra Perry: I know. We're going to cry over here.
Christine: I know. So let's talk a little bit about logistics in terms of what we do, and what this whole thing looks like. So the reason why we're this, even if you're listening to this on a later date. It doesn't matter. You just have an idea of who we are, what our mastermind is. And just to say, there's something that needs to resonate. I've been in masterminds that have worked really well, that haven't worked very well. I've also been invited to some where I had to decline because it just wasn't the right time, or it just didn't feel quite right.
And so, I really believe that you have to join. If that gut feeling is like, "Yeah, yeah, this is it," then I think you have to listen to that for sure. So when we talk a little bit about logistics, let me pull up very quickly here an idea of what we're going to do. As I said before, we have these three pieces of continuous education, of private coaching, and of hot seats, and of the two retreats.
So things that we have in our curriculum, which is completely ... How should I say? Editable in terms of that we will listen to our community and to our tribe is the main thing is as we just said, is mindset. You have to face those little gremlins in your head and we're going to lovingly be there with love, beating the shit out of [inaudible 00:24:52] and letting you know when you are thinking things that are not actually your voices. And we're very good at that.
Other things that we're going to do is we're literally going to look at your website, give you feedback, and help you with your branding in terms of giving you ideas of helping you to understand who you actually are, what you want to look like, all of those things. Kendra and I have both heavily invested in working with the best in the industry on those topics.
So we've learned our fair share by watching them and by just being mentored by them in a way. Finances and pricing is something. If a coach is not offering you to become financially literate, you should run, seriously. I think it's an absolute basic task. You have to know your numbers, how much you're actually spending, how much you need to make, including taxes that go off. So we're going to walk you through that.
I'm not a financial mastermind or guru. And I think that was one of the things that actually helped me back for a long time thinking that I was not good with money. So doing this has been life changing for me. And so, we're going to help you do this too. Funnels, so the more practical things. What are you going to do if someone lands on your website? Sales. How do you sell? Which is a lot easier once you actually know who you are and what you like.
Softwares and tools and employees. Both Kendra and I have teams. So we're going to teach her everything we've learned. Copywriting. We've both worked with amazing copywriters and you just learn and pick up quite a few tricks, and scale to some extent. Online and offline marketing. Again, both of us, I do a lot of workshops. I do a lot of public speaking. I'm doing my first TEDx talk in December. So it's all very exciting. I'm going to teach you all about that.
How to do content creations. Again, both Kendra and I have invested in learning a system, which we'll help you to understand. Community building, which is Kendra's absolute strength. Video marketing, PR, which is my forte. So both of us have these incredible niches that we both shine at, and we help each other with this constantly too. So if I have a question about Instagram stories I will ask Kendra, or I will check out her stuff and just copy it. The workshop, for example, we design together, because that's more my experience. So you'll basically get both our brains.
And then the other thing is obviously the two retreats. So we're going to go to Denver at the beautiful resort in nature, because that's where my little Kendra thrives.
Kendra Perry: I was like, "I will not go anywhere but the mountains."
Christine: I know. It's hilarious. So we're going to go there. You basically have, depending on when you sign up, but everything's included in terms of accommodation, food, airport transfers, all of that jazz. You don't have to think about anything. We have a wonderful event planner who's helping us do all that. So it's all really exciting. So we're going to do one in the spring and one in the fall. So you'll get to meet us, and hang out with us, and bond with us. We're going to cry, and have fun, and make lots of money, which I'm very excited about.
Kendra Perry: And it's so much fun to meet in person. You really just vibe off everyone's energy. You'll feel just so inspired and transformed by the end of those. I'm really looking forward to those [inaudible 00:28:16] actually be super beautiful. And you know I'm going to drive you guys on a hike. So that's just going to happen. So prepare.
Christine: Yeah. I need to get shoes appropriate to that. I don't think my Louis Vuittons will cut in.
Kendra Perry: Well, you need some running shoes. I mean, it's such a cool program because you basically get our eyes on your business for an entire year. And we're there to help you plan and strategize, and give you the tools, share our experience, and basically just hold your hand through the entire process. And a year is a really good amount of time.
There's going to be just so much transformation that takes place. Because I really do think it takes about a year to really get what you need in place so that you can start really being successful in business, and build that profitable business, the one that gives you freedom, whatever that looks like for you. Whether you want to be traveling the world like Christine, or whether you want to be like hermiting out in a time [inaudible 00:29:09] where there's no employment opportunity, right?
Most people I know in the small town make modest incomes. There's not a lot of jobs. A lot of people come to where I live and have to leave. This was my way of being able to stay here, but also to be rich and be able to afford the lifestyle that I want. If you guys follow me on Insta stories, I just built and moved into my dream house. I could not have done that without my business, right? You guys should check it out on my stories. It's fucking nice.
Yeah. We're going to work through the mindset. We're going to help you attract abundance because there are things that you do on a regular basis, things that you tell yourself, things that you say to your online community that actually block new clients from coming into your world. You might be doing things that are actually repelling people from coming into your world.
If you're not attracting consistent clients and bringing in consistent income to not only pay your bills, but have the extras for the lifestyle that you want, it's not because you're not good at this. It's not because the internet hates you. It's not because the Instagram is against you, right? It's just because what you're doing is hard. This is not an easy thing. And trying to do it on your own, like I said, I think you can do it, but I think it will take you twice as long. I think some mental health will suffer as you go through, and you may give up.
I've seen a lot of coaches just give up because they're just like, "I can't do this. No one will pay the cost of my services. It's not sustainable." And I'm just like, "Well, it is. It's just that, you know what I mean? You're not doing the right things and you maybe don't fully believe in yourself." Right?
Christine: And look at what Kendra and I are doing. I mean, Kendra is selling head tissue mineral analysis and business coaching for health coaches and I'm selling fucking sleep. We charge whatever we want to in a way. We really walk the talk. We really know what we talk about and we care. I cannot say that enough. I think both of us are really carrying people with very cool humor as well.
I really think when we find someone who we think is a great fit, then we'll take you under our wing and it's going to be a lot of fun and very, very efficient. So if you want to know more about that, let's see. Where do we send them? So there again, that's me not being [crosstalk 00:31:34].
Kendra Perry: We can send them to ... We'll put it in the show notes, guys. But the link is just 360healthbizpodcast.com/mastermind. To make it simple, you can get all the details there. We have two tiers for our mastermind. We have a bronze and a platinum. So platinum is for people who just really want to Excel. You get a bunch of switch. We'll cover your travel cost to the retreats. You get extra coaching with me and Christine.
I'm going to help you master in your YouTube channel, become an authority on YouTube. Christine's going to help you with your signature talk. You'll get moral support from us, and that sort of thing. We do have two options depending on your needs. Just something I wanted to quickly address because we do talk to health coaches and all our examples are going to be in health and wellness.
Really, what we teach can apply to anyone who sells online coaching services. I know we've had a couple people interested, a girl I know who's a climate change coach, for example, and someone who I think does mindset. And they were wondering, well, is this just for health coaches? Our experience is in the health and wellness industry, but really what we teach is true for all online business as long as you're selling coaching services.
Christine: And I think what sets us maybe-
Kendra Perry: [inaudible 00:32:55] you sell a product, but it would be specific to. If you just have a product, this is probably not for you. But you don't do consulting, online coaching, you want to sell high ticket coaching programs, and eventually group programs, then this is for you regardless of [crosstalk 00:33:09].
Christine: Exactly. Especially when you're selling something where you tell yourself, or where the people are, where they don't necessarily see financial revenue immediately. It's not necessarily for someone who's going to afterwards say, "If you do this, you will have six-figure business." That's not necessarily it. But for things that are a little bit more intangible like mindset or health where we know it is the most important thing in your life.
The people just tend to be a little bit more weird about spending money on it because we do this every day. That's Kendra's online business. So we know how to sell that in a way that it's an integrity with you. You don't have to lie obviously do anything like that. So it's just different. And whether it is exactly like ... I don't even know what else could there be. Mode, or EMF, all of these things, self love, how to just sell these more intangible things that we don't know are absolutely essential and crucial for living a happy life. So that's where our forte is, I reckon. That's how I would describe it.
Kendra Perry: Totally. Yeah, and we're both super excited about it, and that's going to kick off January. So there is lots of time to sign up and get more information, if you guys are interested. We do have a deadline just for some bonuses. So if you guys are interested, definitely connect with us. In the show notes we'll basically give you every way to connect with us, whether you want to connect with us through email, through Facebook Messenger, or you can also hop on a call with either me or Christine and we'll just hash it out with you. We just want to help you make the right choice for you. Okay?
Christine: Exactly. Having said that, though, we are officially launching this at the FDN conference, which is going to be the 4th of November is our day. So you will listen to this later. So we have these extra bonuses that are going to be available until the 15th of November.
So listen to this and if you are like, "Okay, I really want to do this," just don't wait too long because they will be gone. It sucks when you listen to this later. It's just the way it is. We'll be kicking off in January. So still get in touch with us even if it's later. But that's just a couple of bonuses that will be gone by then.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, totally. Yeah. I think before the 15th if you sign up, we'll cover the cost of your retreats first, and the second one as well depending on what tier you sign up for. But that'll be on the 15th. So we're doing a super, super early bird, which is going to be super sweet. So if you hear this, let us know. But even if it is after that date, still connect with us because you can split it in. But we are capping it. We are taking a little bit in an amount of people. I think our cap is maybe like 20 or so. I don't know.
Christine: That's the absolute max, yeah. Absolute max.
Kendra Perry: Absolutely max. Yeah, so if you're hearing this on the podcast and you weren't with us at the conference, get in touch right away because we actually don't know how many people are going to sign up from the conference. And it could just be that it-
Christine: Almost sold out.
Kendra Perry: ... almost sold out then and there's only a few spots left when you're hearing this.
Christine: Yeah. All right. And I think that's pretty much it. So get in touch. Thank you again so much for listening to us. We really appreciate it so much. We appreciate every interaction we get on Instagram, we get on iTunes. We really do. This is not just us saying, "Oh, that's cute." But it's truly making our hearts every time we see this. So thank you.
Kendra Perry: Thanks everyone. We will see you in one week from today with the next episode. If you like this episode and you learned something from it, you can take a screenshot of it, share it to your Instagram stories, mention @360healthbizpodcast, and just let us know your take home. Let us know what you learned and we will share your story to ours. And for bonus points, leave us a five star review on iTunes.
We do currently have a contest going on, which is still going to be going on at the time that this episode drops. And you can win the 10 books that helped me and Christine build our six-figure businesses plus a business audit. So basically we'll audit your social media and website and send you a report that basically says, "Don't do this. This is good. This is bad." With love [inaudible 00:37:14]. All right, guys, thank you so much for tuning in, and we will see you next time.
Have you been considering running a webinar to bring new clients in the door? Well you're in luck because in my new video I'm going to teach you a webinar format that converts AND will help you turn those prospective clients into paying clients.
I ran my health coaching business for five years, and during that time, I hosted many webinars - some failures and some successes. But what I found when it comes to running a webinar, is that there are five key ingredients for success.
1) Strategic focus
3) Keep them short and sweet
5) Q&A session
Let's start with step number one: strategic focus. Your webinar topic has to be virtually the same as the ultimate product or service that you are going to pitch or sell at the end of the webinar. That means that if you're selling a weight loss program, your webinar actually has to be specific to weight loss and not some other similar topic like body image or mindful eating. Your program or service should actually feel like the natural transition for viewers who want to go deeper after learning from your webinar. So using the example of weight loss, if you are selling a 12-week weight loss program, then maybe the title of your webinar is "Five Shocking Reasons You Can't Lose Weight & What to do About it". In this example, people who are interested in weight loss are going to be very interested in signing up for your webinar. And once you teach them why they aren't having the weight loss success that they desperately want and then you give them a few actionable tips and strategies. Naturally, those who are interested in getting bigger results are going to gravitate or at least be interested in the product or program that you are selling at the end of your webinar.
Number two is bribery. People are pretty distracted these days which means if you don't give people an incentive to stay the course of your webinar, there is a really good chance that they're going to get distracted by their phone, maybe someone coming over, and they're going to drop off and they're never going to get to your pitch at the end of the webinar. So you need to make it worth their while to stay, and nothing works better than what I call ethical bribery. This might be free access into the program you're selling, or maybe it's a free product that they would be interested in like a Vitamix or maybe it's a free 60-minute consultation with you. Whatever it is, you need to make it juicy - something that they're actually really going to want. And you need to make this really clear at the beginning of the webinar. You need to tell them, "Hey, for those of you who stay with me till the end, you can be entered to win this free thing." And usually how I do this, is I say a secret word at the end of the webinar that they can then email to my team to get entered into the contest. But of course, you don't want to give that secret word away until you have finished your pitch. Without bribery, there really just isn't the incentive to stay to the end of the webinar.
Number three is short and sweet. The biggest mistake I see a lot of people doing is that they overwhelm the viewer by giving away way too much information in their webinar. As much as you feel super passionate about the topic you are teaching, if you make it too long and you overwhelm the viewer, it's a sure thing that they're going to just drop off. The content of your webinars should share a maximum of three to five points and it needs to be completely related to your webinar topic and ultimately your product topic. I also recommend that you give them something actionable during your presentation that they can do right now in order to experience a quick win. If you give your viewer a quick win, they're going to be way more interested in potentially entering your program, or if they're not ready to buy it then, they will probably still follow you and potentially they could become a buyer in the future.
The fourth ingredient is urgency. If you want people to take action at the end of your webinar, you need to put just the little bit of pressure on them. Otherwise, they'll get distracted and totally forget to invest in your program even if they had the intention to do so. Some people call this a fast-acting bonus. Trust me, it works. This is where you give them incentive to actually take that urgent action. So this might be a discount code that expires at midnight, or it might be some juicy bonus that they can only get if they sign up in the next 48 hours. And you should always include this urgency or fast-acting bonus. Even if you have your cart open for 10 to 14 days, you want to give them incentive to actually act right away. Remember, you do want to make it juicy enough that they can't help but take that urgent action.
The last tip is the Q&A or the question and answer session. This is your time to shine and you should always include this at the end of your webinar. This allows viewers to connect with you personally and inquire about working with you further. So regardless of who is asking questions in the questions box or if maybe nobody is asking questions in the questions box, that is okay. I recommend coming prepared with a list of questions to pretend to ask that highlight the benefit of your program. And like I said, even if no one actually ask this, you want to fake it because this is actually doing your viewer a favor by giving them more information about your program. So for example, if you have a weight loss program, one objection might be from someone who says, "Hey, I'm plant-based, I'm a vegan. Does this program actually include recipes that I can eat?" And you're going to be like, "Yes, it does actually, all of the recipes can be modified to be vegan or plant-based." Another example would be, "Annie says she has fatigue along with weight loss. Will this program actually help her get more energy and lose weight at the same time?" And your response is going to be, "Yes, Annie, it absolutely will. The information taught in this program actually helps build overall health and people can see a resolution of lots of different symptoms including energy or brain fog or digestive issues." The question and answer is the time to help address questions that you believe your ideal might have when it comes to making that decision to work with you.
Now that you understand the five juicy ingredients of a high-converting webinar, maybe you're hungry for some more delicious tips to optimize your online business?! So make sure to sign up for my weekly business tips here. These are tips that are specific to your health coaching business and things that I saw success with, with running my own health coaching practice.
If you've got a program and you're wondering how to price it, then make sure to check out my video, Pricing Methods and Strategies for Your Signature Coaching Program!