If you feel like you've been burning out or feeling overwhelmed with private clients, this actually might be the perfect time to consider launching a group program. In my new video, I'm going to teach you how to start your awesome group coaching program.
So personally, I worked with clients for about three years before I really started to burn out. I had so many clients at the time, I was having a hard time keeping track of them. I was working really hard to get them, and I knew I wanted to make more money and have more financial freedom, but I didn't have any more time in my schedule. I started to charge higher ticket prices for my coaching services, but as a result, I started helping less people and that really went against my mission, which was to really help as many people with their health as possible. So I wanted to figure out a way to help more people without actually burning out and compromising my self care, while simultaneously making more money.
Once I launched my first group coaching program, everything changed. I was able to make more money, I was able to help more people and I was able to have more time for myself. And in this video, I'm going to give you the step by step of how you can actually make that happen.
Step 1: Outcome
You need to determine what is the specific outcome or the specific result that your group members are going to get. Don't make a group program that claims to solve multiple problems.
Step 2: Content
You need to come up with the content of your program. And the best way to do this is to determine what does everyone actually need to do? What are the steps that everyone needs to take to get from A to B, from sick to that outcome that you are promising with your program?
Step 3: Delivery
When it comes to delivery, it's very important to take your group members on a journey. You want to take them through a logical sequence of steps that helps lead them on the path from where they have their problem that leads them eventually to that ultimate outcome or result.
Step 4: Support
What type of supporting materials are you going to include in your group program?
Step 5: Experience
You want to still make sure that, even though they're on this very serious journey to improving their health, that they still have a positive experience.
Step 6: Journey
After their group program, what happens next? You want to make sure you have something available to them because there's a good chance that some of your members are not going to actually be done with working with you.
Step 7: Update
After you've run of your group program, you want to update your program so that it's even better for the next members. This means future members are going to have an enhanced experience and you can raise the price of your program.
A great way to teach your first group program is through a Facebook group. The reason I love this is because Facebook groups are really great for engagement. So you can go live into your group and teach the training. You can engage in real time with each of your members, see what their questions are, see what their challenges are, get to know them a little bit better. And then the replay is available immediately after you've gone live. So if you teach another way, let's say you use a zoom meeting, or some type of other online meeting platform, you are going to have to download, upload and render the recording.
Watch the video where I go into further detail of each step!
So you have delivered your awesome lead magnet and now you have this person on your email list. But is that the right time to actually pitch them and offer your program or service? People take time to actually warm up to get to know and trust you. They need time to actually decide if they like you. That is exactly what an email nurture sequence is for.
In my new video, I'm going to teach you step by step how to create a high quality email nurture sequence that turns those email subscribers into paying clients.
Before I had a lead magnet, I had a really hard time turning my email subscribers into clients. It made me think that maybe email marketing didn't really work. I quickly learned that when it comes to health, people don't trust you right away. They need to warm up to you and you need to help them get there. Once they have warmed up, once they feel like they know you, they trust you, they like you, they're going to be way more likely to want to invest in whatever it is that you have to offer.
Once I started implementing my email nurture sequence, I started getting 10 to 15 discovery calls from potential clients, which was pretty overwhelming. It was a lot, so I actually had to switch to an application only practice in order to not lose my mind. So it was awesome.
An email nurture sequence is a series of emails that people receive after they opt in for your free offer. It helps them get to know you and your story, and it helps you know their method so that eventually you can pitch your program or your service. In my experience, I find six emails to work the best, but of course everyone's going to be a little bit different so you want to test that and see which length or amount of emails is going to work best for your business.
Let's break down what each of those six emails should actually include.
Email number one: your lead magnet
Email two and three: tell your story
Email number four: the purpose is to aggravate the problem and surprise them
Email number five: testimonial
Email number six: your pitch
I love pitching in email six because I've shared so much of myself with them already. I've shared my personal story, my struggles, I've related it back to them. I've shared my testimonial of how I can help someone just like them. This is a great time where they might actually be really interested in learning more and maybe even working with you.
If you don't sell them at email six in the email nurture sequence, that's totally okay. Some people do need a little bit more time to actually warm up and that's no problem because you're going to be sending an email to them every single week with valuable information, warming them up even more so that eventually they are ready to invest in what you have to offer.
If you want more details and examples for each of the emails in the nurture sequence, be sure to watch my video!
We are stepping in the unknown, confusing (to some) and taboo territory on today’s 360 Health Biz Podcast! We have Alison Gordon, CEO of 48North Cannabis Corp. to talk about, you guessed it – cannabis!
In America, cannabis is federally illegal but at state level (in some states) medical cannabis is legal. In Canada however, cannabis became legal across the nation in October of 2018 and edibles became legal in October 2019. However, there's a lot of regulatory work that still needs to be done in Canada and the US.
Depending on your interest and involvement in cannabis, there are areas that are black and white, gray, and frankly…green.
In this episode we discuss:
- legalization and licensing of cannabis in Canada vs America
- what is vaping and is it legal?
- marketing around public opinion
- how to work around marketing cannabis restrictions
- organic cannabis and regulation around quality
- illegal dispensaries vs legal licensed dispensaries
- medical conditions that have seen positive impact from cannabis use
- public perception: why alcohol is accepted by cannabis isn’t
We learned a lot from Alison in today’s episode and we hope you do too!
Alison Gordon - CEO 48North Cannabis Corp. Alison is a veteran of the Canadian cannabis industry, bringing unique experience and relationships to her role as co-chief executive officer of 48North. A skilled marketer, she is celebrated for her ability to shift public opinion and consumer behaviour and has been named one of Canada’s Top 10 Marketers by Marketing magazine. As co-founder of Rethink Breast Cancer, Alison is credited with growing a new generation of young breast cancer supporters, compelled by her ground-breaking communication and pharmaceutical expertise in the health-care realm. Today, Alison is applying her skills to 48North’s business plan in this new era of the cannabis industry. She is on the board of directors for the Cannabis Canada Council.
Connect with Allison on Instagram: @cannabisculturist
Connect with us on social:
Kendra: Hey guys, what's up? Kendra here, welcome to the 360 Health Biz Podcast. I am super excited for today's show because we're talking about kind of a sexy topic. We're talking about marijuana, we're talking about cannabis. It's a very current topic on social media, because we did just recently legalize it. So, we're going to be talking with an awesome guest today. And unfortunately, Christine's not with me today cause she's off gallivanting the planet as usual. I actually don't even know where she is today. But, she will be back, joining me for our next recording.
So today, it's just me and our awesome guests. We are good. Like I said, talking about cannabis, which was actually something I'm very excited to talk about because you guys follow me on social media, you've probably heard me talk about this. I live in a very small town in British Columbia that was basically built on the marijuana industry and up until recently, our whole economy ran on it.
So myself included, I'm comfortable saying this now because it is cool. But, I used to be very much involved in that industry, and a lot of the people I know in this town are very much involved in it. And now that it's been legalized, a lot of my friends are adjusting to kind of like the new landscape of what is coming.
So, I am sitting here with Alison Gordon. She is the CEO of 48North Cannabis Corporation. She is a veteran of the Canadian cannabis industry, bringing unique experience and relationships to her role as co-Chief Executive Officer for 48North. She is a skilled marketer. She is celebrated for her ability to shift public opinion and consumer behavior, and has been named one of Canada's top 10 marketers by Marketing Magazine. That's pretty impressive. And, she is also the co founder of the Rethink Breast Cancer. Alison is a credited with growing a new generation of young breast cancer supporters, is held by her groundbreaking communication and pharmaceutical expertise in the healthcare realm.
Today Alison is applying her skills to 48North's business plan in this new era of the cannabis industry. She's on the board of directors with the Cannabis Canada Council.
Welcome Alison. Thank you so much for being here.
Alison Gordon: Thank you for having me.
Kendra: So, that is a pretty impressive bio. I would love to know first and foremost, like how did you end up in this industry? Like how did this all get started for you?
Alison Gordon: Well, it started in high school, when I started smoking weed and never really stopped. But in terms of as a career, and you know, within the regulated legal industry, I started thinking about this industry, well let's put it this way. In 2008, I had a close family member that was diagnosed with stage four ovarian cancer. And her doctor recommended that she try medical cannabis. And I was like, what? Canada has a medical cannabis program? This is back in 2008, don't forget. So, a long time ago. And I had no idea. And I got very excited, and you know, looking back was obviously quite naive and thinking about these ideas that I had for what I thought this industry could become. I was also really amazed at seeing an older woman who had never smoked weed or used it before, using it daily to help with anxiety, pain, sleep, all the things that come with end-of-life care.
And so I was like, okay, this is shifting. Clearly, there's a shift here. People are going to recognize the benefits of medicinal cannabis. And then for me, I started to think and believe that ultimately we would move towards legalization, which has happened. So, I really started looking at the industry, both Canada and the U.S. back then. At the time I was co-running Rethink Breast Cancer, which I had confounded with my partner, MJ. Was very happy there. We were growing this international organization, working with young women with breast cancer. But I just kept having this nibbling feeling that I wanted to get involved in the cannabis industry. And in 2013 I decided, you know what, Rethink is running amazingly. It can survive without me, as anything can. And I transitioned onto the board and started working in Canada, in the industry.
Kendra: Very, very cool. And so, I think like, for those of you, for those of you who are American, or from outside of Canada, Canada did just recently legalize it. And I know in the U.S., I'm not super familiar with the laws there, but I know in certain states it's more or less like may be decriminalized or legalized to some degree.
And you know, in your bio you mentioned like kind of shifting public opinion and consumer behavior. Can you speak a little bit to that? Like why do you think it's important to shift public opinion? Like what is the current public opinion and like why is that so important to you?
Alison Gordon: Well, let me first deal with what you were saying. So in the U.S., it is federally illegal, still at the federal level. So at the state level of certain states, it is legal for adult use, medical, these things. But the federal obviously trumps the state. And in the Obama administration, you know, there was the Cole memo, which allowed the States the right to govern in this way. With Trump, it's still unclear. So you know, Canada was in a very unique position and still is to be legalized at the federal level.
So, you know, coming back to your question of shifting public opinion. Well you know, this is the biggest part of our job on so many levels. Because what I always say is that the prohibition of cannabis is probably some of the best marketing that ever existed. It should be on the cover of every marketing textbook.
Alison Gordon: As the amount of misinformation that exists out there in the world amongst educated, smart people as well as you know, people, all sorts of people. But, it is just staggering and trying to break that misinformation seems to be challenging.
Alison Gordon: I think we've made tons of headway. The fact that Canada has actually legalized shows that, you know, the government understood that this is no longer something that the mass of Canadian voters would have issue with. Cause otherwise they wouldn't do it.
Alison Gordon: And you know, there's all sorts of different stats in Canada and the U.S. about public opinion. And the opinion, in terms of legalizing, is most definitely significantly higher than those that don't believe it should be legal in both Canada and the U.S. But I think what people don't realize is so much of that misinformation, yes they might believe it's legal, but the view of the type of people who use cannabis or whether they want it in their community, it's still strong. And that's challenging because that impacts our, you know, government representatives who pass the regulatory environments. And I think you know, a lot of the information we get from those, you know, MPs and others still believe that cannabis is a drug, and it's a problem, and it's all of these things. So for us to fully move into a legal market and to get consumers to understand the value of having a legal market, there's a lot of regulatory work that needs to be done in Canada and especially in the U.S.
Kendra: Yeah. And I mean something I've noticed cause like you know, I'm from Nelson, British Columbia. If you're familiar with that tiny little town.
Alison Gordon: Yes of course, very familiar.
Kendra: Very much like a town built on the marijuana industry. And you know, it's just interesting cause the dispensary's, you know, before legalization, you can pretty much get anything. It was kind of in this gray zone. But now that we've moved into legalization, like you actually can't get as much. Like you can't get the edibles. Like you can only get like...
Alison Gordon: ...at the legal dispensary's.
Kendra: Yeah, totally.
Alison Gordon: Yeah. Well those are not yet legal in Canada.
Alison Gordon: So to date, like ending very soon, cause it's coming on October 17th of this year. But, what's been legal in Canada for the past year is flower and one very limited extract. So not edibles, not vapes, not topicals. So anyone who sees those products in the Canadian market today, and likely over the next two months, those are not legal. And so with the big crisis that's been going on, you know, I want to make sure that everybody understands that vapes are not legal in Canada right this minute. It will be in the coming weeks and months. But you, you know, if you don't buy them from a legal entity, then you actually don't know what's in them.
Kendra: And can you just speak to the vape crisis. And like what is vaping? Cause I'm a little bit confused about what it actually is. And I think some of our listeners are maybe unfamiliar with it.
Alison Gordon: Well, I mean vaping is a, I want to say technology. It's probably not the right word. But it's, it's a very particular, well it's not a mechanism, but delivery method.
Alison Gordon: That uses a certain form of oils and heat to turn, whether it's flower or oil into something that you, a vapor essentially you can inhale into your lungs.
Alison Gordon: You know, this is, vaping been around for a very long time. And in terms of things like the volcano, or you know, different forms of it. But what happened, I think, and I don't know the exact history, but with the proliferation of these E-cigarettes people then took that, or I don't know which came first. But you know, that we have sort of that version on the cannabis side, where it's essentially you can buy disposable vapes. So meaning, you'll use it, and these vapes are made out of oil.
Alison Gordon: Right. So they're cannabis oil, sometimes mixed with other oils. Right? So it really depends on what you buy. And that's why you need to buy from a legal market.
Because for example, we acquired a company in the U.S. called Quill. They make vapes. Those vapes are 100% cannabis oil.
Alison Gordon: There's no additives, no fillers. Often people, especially in the black market, are cutting that with oil, other oils.
Alison Gordon: And so you don't know what's in those oils. There could be flavors or this vitamin E acetate that people are talking about, that they think might be what's causing the deaths, they don't know.
So you know, essentially when you're vaping, generally, unless you're taking flower and putting it in a vaporizer, which would be a much larger apparatus. If it's just one of these pens as we call them, it's an oil. And it being heated, and you're inhaling it into your lungs. Obviously there isn't a ton of research in general, even on the E-cigarette side as to the effect of vaporizing versus smoking a cigarette.
Alison Gordon: And then on the cannabis side, you know, same, same. But you know, again, it's been thought to be a better alternative to smoking. But I guess that's TBD.
Kendra: Exactly. Yeah. And that's really interesting. And I think like within the health and wellness space for all of our coaches who are listening, I think a lot of them, I've seen all just a lot of discussion in general in the communities that people are interested in like, you know, using these types of products personally, or maybe with their clients. But there seems to be a big concern about quality. And personally, I've seen indoor grow shows in my community where I see a lot of chemicals being used for example. And you know within the health and wellness space, like people are always really concerned about quality, and organic, and the fact that things aren't used with chemicals if we are going to be using it for a health application. Can you speak to that a little bit?
Alison Gordon: Yeah, well I mean 48North, we are organic in two out of three of our facilities, our large outdoor farms. So the bulk of our product coming online will be organic. So I completely agree with you. That said, the legal market in Canada, again, if you buy from a legal dispensary or from online from your government, you know, online entity or whichever province you're in, if you're in Canada, or in the U.S. from a legal entity, these things are all heavily lab tested.
Alison Gordon: And the government in Canada has heavy, heavy regulations against using any form of pesticides. So even though we are 48North have gone through the process of being certified organic, I can say with a lot of faith that the legal market, you're not looking at the same level like any form of pesticides. Like for example, in Canada, you can't spray the plant past a certain point with anything, including water.
And that's the government's way of just ensuring nothing passes through. And the truth is we have to lab test so heavily that, you know..., It's just like anything I say like you, you go into restaurants that have, in Ontario at least the green thing on the window that they've been inspected and everything's fine. You don't go buy an egg sandwich off someone sitting on the street with a plate. Like you just don't know what's in these things.
So, this is the move that needs to happen towards the legal market. And it's not to say many people in the black market might be doing organic, or they might be doing all the right things. But how are you as the consumer supposed to know?
Alison Gordon: And so that's what I think you know, is where people need to get to from a health and wellness perspective, is recognizing there's value in lab testing. Whether or not you may pay a couple of cents more, 50 cents more, whatever, or less. I mean the legal market might be less in some instances. The upside of that is it's regulated.
Alison Gordon: That's what we ask of our products and do.
Kendra: Yes. No, I absolutely agree. And would you say that's, like that would be similarly true of the U.S.? Like people purchasing in the U.S., if they buy from like a government body, like does that exist in the U.S. like can they try...
Alison Gordon: Well, it's not about buying from a government body. It's about buying from illegal licensed dispensary. And in the U.S., each state will have different requirements around lab testing. California has quite stringent requirements. So, you're quite certain in California that, you know, what you're buying from a legal market is being tested for all sorts of heavy metals, and same with Canada. So yes, it's about buying from a legal market. I think what confuses consumers is when they see stores on the street that are selling weed, they think it's legal because how does that exist if it's not legal? But, that's part of the confusion that's existing, both in Canada and the U.S., as you transitioned to this legal market.
Kendra: So yeah, and I do find that confusing. So, what you're saying is just because there is someone who has a shop open on this, on like the downtown street, it doesn't mean that it's regulated or that it's technically legal?
Alison Gordon: No, and I don't have an answer for you as to how that sort of store would get shut down. I can speculate that the police themselves are confused as to what's going on. That nobody likes to take time and resources in the court systems for things that won't result in jail time. I don't really know how or why. I think they do get shut down and they pop back up. Especially online is where this proliferating.
So people go online, they can get it delivered to their door. They assume it's legal. So you know, I think it's, it behooves people to just actually understand it. Asking them are you legal? Like they may not get the truthful answer. I think it's depending where you are understanding. Like for example in Ontario online, the only place that's legal is the OCS.CA and then we only have about 25 stores in all of Ontario that are legal right now. They are giving out another 42 licenses. But there's some potential delay there. But yeah, I mean it's, it's, they have a symbol on their windows that show that they are actually a licensed retailer.
Kendra: Okay. Okay. That's good to know. Yeah. Cause I've been a little bit confused about that, and I have seen that happen in Nelson. Like places kind of like shut down and like come back up. And then places like now they can't sell this, but you can get it from their online store. And I think just everything being so new, there's a lot of confusion and hopefully that will, you know, over time have a...
Alison Gordon: Look, this isn't like a positive thing. But the easy way to know is like does the packaging look like this? Which is our pre-roll pack, which is the best that we can do in light of having to have these massive warning. And again not to say the black market wouldn't copy this as well. That's the challenge. Right?
Alison Gordon: But I just, if I was in the black market, why would I make it look like this? I would look more appealing.
Kendra: It would be a lot of effort. Like 10 points for effort, that's for sure. Okay. Yeah.
Alison Gordon: And no doubt it happens.
Kendra: Exactly. And I would love to speak a little bit more about like the whole health connection. Why medical marijuana and cannabis is you know, something that we should as health practitioners like consider for certain conditions. And obviously I think you've seen benefit with people who have breast cancer. Like what else can you speak to regarding that?
Alison Gordon: Well I mean I think there's a ton, a ton, a ton of content now on the web about this from people much more knowledgeable than me. But you know just having been in the industry for as long as I have, and speaking with patients, and people like, there's a ton of new actual clinical studies that are coming out. Which is great cause it's really just been anecdotal to date. So obviously with the advent of all these CBD products in the U.S. There's been a lot of interest in CBD. The FDA has approved a drug called Epidiolex made of CBD for epilepsy. So I think CBD is well known as an anti-inflammatory, anti-seizure that can really help people. I have friends with epilepsy that have gotten off all pharmaceuticals just by using CBD. Now of course, once again, not all CBD is created equal, although it is a molecule.
But you know, again, it's doing a little bit of research and looking into the full spectrum. So, it is likely the cannabis plant has over a hundred cannabinoids. CBD is one of them, THC is another. THC is the cannabinoid that when heated gets you high. But there is a hundred cannabinoids and various things in the plant. So you know, it's trying out these full spectrum products that have that entourage effect.
That's something I am biased towards. There is no clinical research to say that's any more effective than using a product like that CBD isolate. But I think intuitively it just makes sense. You know, pain management, glaucoma, MS, Parkinson's, I mean like it does all start to sound like really? But it truly, there is, you know, it's been obviously well-documented that humans have an endocannabinoid system. The cannabis plant and the receptors connect to that.
And I think we're just starting to scratch the surface of understanding how cannabis can help. I mean social anxiety, anxiety's, there are people that I know, and I've read about that you know had extreme forms of anxiety and PTSD, never leaving the house, et cetera, et cetera. That now are able to have a more functioning existence thanks to using cannabis. Some might be okay with a very small amount of CBD. Others, it requires some THC, and you have the problem, or the challenge is, you know, I used to say it's a plant based medicine so of course there's trial and error. But I hate to say that because with pharmaceuticals I think we've all been brainwashed to believe that there's a consistent use, meaning the effect is going to be the effect. But I think the reality is if you have friends who have taken antidepressants, they often need to try three before there's one that works.
So it's no difference, it's just you. You might need a very minimal dose of just CBD to be able to deal, like have your anxiety under control. Others may need more. So there is a trial and error right now, which is part of the problem that the state ranking perception, is that doctors don't have that same ease with which to prescribe and go 10 milligrams. But they were getting there, and we're getting there quickly. And so I think, you know, there's nothing to be scared of. You can try cannabis and see if it works for you. If you are worried about getting highs and start with the CBD product and see where you go.
Kendra: Yeah, yeah I love that. And, I especially love the application to pain management because I know a lot of people like that's how their addiction start. You know, they get into an accident or they have, you know, some sort of chronic issue and they end up addicted to pain pills.
Alison Gordon: Yeah. I mean there is a lot of research to show cannabis as a, obviously an amazing alternative to opioids. But also a successful treatment for opioid addiction.
Alison Gordon: And I think that, that's really important as well.
Kendra: Yeah, that's amazing. And I remember, like many years ago I had ACL reconstructive surgery, and they prescribed me Percocet, which made me feel disgusting. And my friend came over and gave me Phoenix Tears, which yeah. Are you familiar with those? I wasn't sure if that was the Nelson thing or like that's a legitimate, yeah.
Alison Gordon: Yeah, we know of it.
Kendra: And I remember using those and I mean like yeah, they made me super high and like kind of I couldn't really communicate well with people. But I, I wasn't, I was able to not use the Percocet. And like it killed all my pain and that was really amazing cause I just, I've never been really interested in taking pharmaceuticals. So I, yeah.
Alison Gordon: And again, like it's hard for you in that situation. Maybe you didn't have to be that high. Like your friends giving Phoenix Tears. Obviously that's not, you know, regulated. So you don't exactly know what's in it. Even though I'm sure we trust your friend, and it's not about what's in it from an ingredient standpoint. It's like dosing is quite complex, as you could imagine. So, as legal companies who have to lab test, when we say this is the dose, that's the dose.
Alison Gordon: Also, obviously you don't have someone guiding you through that process.
Alison Gordon: Like a physician, which you likely could do now, because we have many more physicians who are educated in this that could, you know, say let's start you on a one-to-one and let's work up. Your friend just kind of brought you Phoenix Tears.
Kendra: Yeah. And though they were so hot here for a while, like everyone was like, Phoenix Tears were like the hottest thing around town. And then this was back when it was illegal. And then I remember like they got so hot that people had to like ditch them and bury them in the forest, because the cops are getting super involved. But I do remember that and I really did appreciate the painkilling. And at the time I liked smoking weeds, so I was fine with being that high. These days, I would probably want to have someone guide me through the experience and not get so high so I could actually function.
Alison Gordon: Yeah. And, and again, like this is a very common saying is you start low, and goes slow. Right? So it's like, it's the same thing. It's no different than Percocet or Oxycontin. I mean, it's totally different, I want to be clear about that. But what I need to say is the misperception that with a pharmaceutical, like that's what you're going to do. I mean, you might've taken that Percocet and maybe you only really needed half of it, or ideally don't take it at all.
But you understand the point that I'm making, which is we lead such blind faith in the pharmaceutical industry and it's so fascinating to me to like, I wish I could fast forward 20 years. Because so much research is being done on cannabis and it's just going to be such a different world. And I just wonder if all of this will be, you know, misconceptions will be wiped out and people will be as skeptical about pharma as they are this poor little plant.
Kendra: Yeah, I mean it is really true. I've always found that interesting. Like how much trust people will have in like the pharmaceutical community, whereas like those types of drugs kill people all the time. Whereas like there's like street drugs and all these other things that like, you know, maybe magic mushrooms, and like marijuana, and stuff when people are just like, "Oh, that's illegal drugs." Like you're a druggie if you do that. Meanwhile, like most people are taking pharmaceuticals.
Alison Gordon: Well I think it's like the tides are definitely changing. Obviously the opioid crisis, especially in the U.S., but also in Canada is like getting front page attention. Which is amazing. But you know, at the same time, I think it's this balance. And my hope of course, is the reason people have faith in pharmaceuticals, whether it's right for them to or not, is it comes through physicians and physicians play a certain role in our society. But also, you know, where they're manufactured, that they're regulated, that things done clinical studies. So all of that gives the public the perception of safety. I'm not going to sit here and start trashing clinical studies, but I think people understand there's lots of ways to collect data. But at the same time, if you know, you got to play the game. And so the goal for our industry, of course, is to get this, you know, double blind studies done so we can prove to the powers that be that this is effective medicine for the things we're talking about.
And you know, no one has ever in the history of, you know, released in, documented to died from cannabis use.
Alison Gordon: So it's, you know, it's toll on your body is nothing and it's, I'm not going to say that, you know, people don't have an emotional addiction, because I don't know the answer whether that is. But there is no physical addiction that's been shown. And also I have many, many friends who were heavy cannabis users that might travel somewhere for two weeks that they can't get it, there is no physical withdrawal symptoms.
Alison Gordon: I mean I think this word just has to spread amongst healthcare community and understand that, you know, a lot of what you hear that it's a gateway drug, it's just total bullshit.
Kendra: I think it is bullshit. I think alcohol is more of a gateway drug. Like I've always made that comparison. Like alcohol is so accepted. But you know, when I used to drink all the time, like I do all kinds of things I regretted, and like end up on like weird people's couches, and be like wake up in the morning and be like, "I can't fucking believe I did that." But like that never happened with weed. Like the worst thing that would happen is maybe I would like eat too many chips or something like that.
Alison Gordon: Yeah. I mean alcohol is really, to me it's unbelievable that people will say, "Oh my God, do you like, do your kids see your weed or whatever?" And quite frankly, like I also suffer the stigma myself. Meaning, I'm in this role, I'm CEO of this company, and I'm still like cleaning up the weed, you know, with my teenagers around, if they are around. But at the same time, I don't even think twice if they come down in the morning, and I've had people over and have drinking. I mean I don't drink myself, not, I never really did. And so, it's just an easy one to wipe out.
But you know, first of all, alcohol isn't just about the bad decisions you make, but for sure it's there. But there's a ton of research that shows the effects of alcohol has on your body and your brain. They're making links to it, to Alzheimer's right now obviously liver diseases, all sorts of other things. But interesting to me is when you saw states like Colorado legalize cannabis, then you saw things like the alcohol sales went down about 30% in Colorado at that time. And then domestic violence went down by 30%. So we know, I think it's just, and this is where going back to 2014. So this information's out there. It's just like I said, you know, prohibition with like a stranglehold on our brains, and it's just people don't want to hear it and believe it.
Kendra: Yeah, I totally agree. And like that must make it challenging for like the marketing side of things. Cause you're a big marketer, top 10 marketers in Canada. Very cool. And like we love talking about marketing on this podcast, and like online business, and that sort of thing. So like how, like what is your sort of strategy towards like marketing, this sort of thing? Cause, obviously you have to shift public opinion, but like where do you go after that?
Alison Gordon: Well, the number one challenge beyond the challenge of shifting opinion is that in Canada we are not allowed [inaudible 00:29:02] as cannabis company anywhere. So, a variety of different strategies.
So one thing we did was create an online platform called Latitude where we share stories about how when women use cannabis for their health and wellness in their day-to-day lives, and it's just average women. And it's, you know, some of them are a mother and daughter, or they may be a yoga teacher, or it may be, like it's all over the map. And the idea there is, when you read these stories, so I'm looking around to see if I have one of the books in the office, in my office, but I don't. But when you read it, and it sells at Indigo, and it's a beautiful book or sort of magazine thing, you, you know, there's, I think a subconscious level where it's like this person's just like me. This isn't a scary person. This person has a good job. They're not just on their couch. But also understanding their rituals around it and how they use it and when they use it. And what it's done for them.
We also have hosted events latitude. Because again, we cannot do that as 48North because we sell cannabis and as part of that, we are not allowed to sponsor events, are not allowed to do all these things.
Alison Gordon: So Latitude, we've had a few events. The last one was on sex and pleasure and a lot of the women that came and spoke if, and the idea there is, it's like we have speakers and they might read poetry, they might tell a story. It's however they want to express themselves. And a lot of them were talking about, you know, really negative sexual experiences, whether it was like all the way of rape to just, you know, those are uncomfortable positions.
Alison Gordon: Like you end up a being somewhere you don't really want to be, and feel in control of. And each one spoke about how cannabis brought them back into their body, how they were able to use it to kill the trauma. And I get, I think, you know, we sell out those events very quickly. So you have a large audience hearing these stories and again normalizing it. And it's all you can do, it takes time and all you can do. You know, I continue to do things like this podcast with you, in the hopes it keeps people keep going, "Oh my God she's kind of like me. She runs a public org, she runs a public company. You know, she must not be out of her mind."
Kendra: And so, you cut out a little bit earlier, so I'm not sure if you already said this, but just like is there any regulations or rules around like if. Cause I have a lot of friends in this community who have like gotten, I guess I don't the right word, they've been given permission...
Alison Gordon: Licenses.
Kendra: Or they've been able to start there like their zone, their warehouse or whatever it is.
Alison Gordon: Licensed, they have been licensed.
Kendra: They've been licensed.
Alison Gordon: And I don't think that many in Nelson have been licensed, so that's interesting.
Kendra: Yeah. There's a few, like the people I'm thinking of, like they've been licensed for a certain number of plants. And then, they have to go through like this whole thing where they have to like show that they have like the space, and like get that approved and like there's this whole thing. And they're kind of working through this process. But I was wondering, like what is like, is the regulation around like sharing that sort of thing on social media? Like if you were to have like, you know, open the warehouse and start growing legally, can you be set up an Instagram account?
Alison Gordon: Sure, I mean we have Instagram. You can go to the 48North Instagram. We do show pictures of our grow, especially the outdoor grow, cause that's exciting to be one of the few, like really I think there's like only five that have been licensed for outdoor and like our scale is huge. We're going on, you know, almost a hundred acres, so 3.5 million square feet. So it's to our knowledge, the largest legal outdoor grow in the world. So that's something like we're obviously documenting and showing on social media from time-to-time. You have two issues in social media, one is that Instagram, and/or Facebook, and others don't allow for weed to be shown. So many, many, many, many people do it. It's just a question of are you going to get caught, and your account shut down, and restart again, which has happened to many of my friends.
Alison Gordon: And, and then the other issue is of course Health Canada and you know again it's just that fine line between showing, educating, and not being promotional.
Kendra: Right. Yeah. Cause I'm guessing there's probably law like rules. You can't advertise. You can't run Facebook.
Alison Gordon: No we can't. That's what I was saying. You can't, well Facebook doesn't allow you themselves Within Canada, that's what I was saying earlier, but I guess I cut out is, you are not allowed to market or advertise at all. You're not allowed to sponsor events. You're not allowed to. You know, in the U.S., you'll have certain brands naming their strains Calm or Energetic just to simplify it or the consumer.
Alison Gordon: You can't do that in Canada. You can't make claims, like you can't do anything. So that's where Latitude or us starting up sort of auxiliary, you know, businesses to be able to educate is so critical to the mission.
Kendra: So, for like the small guys, like for people who, you know, maybe in Canada who are, you know, getting licenses and they're eventually going to be legal and be able to kind of start their own operations. Like I'm guessing, like their marketing strategy is going to have to kind of include a lot of what you guys are doing. Like they're going to have to like also work on like changing perception and making it relatable and that sort of thing. Right. You think that's correct?
Alison Gordon: Well, I mean I don't know. Hopefully as they come online, we've done good work. And we can we help change that? I think everybody has a role to play in that for sure. But, you know, , again, without truly boring your listeners, it is very weird to call this out in your community. Like what a lot of people try and forget, is that we grow for up to sit down and that still exists. So, I'm not sure what you're referring to when you talk about license. They're still growers who are growing for patients, but that's not really what they're doing. Right. So they're legally allowed this grow, and they're saying they're growing them for patients, but it very well, okay. You know,
it might hit the black market, or illegal dispensaries, or whatever it is. I don't know. I don't want us to get rid of people that are growing for patients, and I'm making is that it's very difficult to actually get a license in Canada. Very, very difficult.
Kendra: Yeah. And it seems like, and I'm totally uneducated in the whole process and like, you know, I'm kind of just like, I'm hearing this through the grapevine and yeah, but from what the one thing I do understand, is that it sounds very complicated.
Alison Gordon: It's complicated and Canada's a highly regulated country. So you know, what do we have five banks, five cell phone companies. It's not going to be that there'll be thousands of these companies. What the government did put into effect last year was is the micro processing and micro grows. So you might, in referring to, you know, they're trying to license sort of small boroughs for people to transition from the black market.
But these, you know, it's a very difficult business to be in because then you have to figure out how to get your products onto a shelf which runs to the governments and requires enough quantity.
You know, it's like alcohol. It's like if you want to get your stuff in the LCBO Ontario and you only make a hundred bottles of something, that's very difficult for them to stock and spread out amongst their. So it's not, unfortunately the way it's structured today at business for small businesses.
Alison Gordon: Certain verticals might be, meaning you might grow up very small, grow very, you know, good quality craft, cheap and then sell it to a company like mine who has the ability to take that and get that on to along with our other products. But the industry needs to evolve to allow for small businesses to take part in it.
Kendra: So that's something your company does. Like you might look at like a, like a micro grow and like take their product. And try to like help them like get it to a bigger market?
Alison Gordon: Well, I think what we would do potentially, is we just buy it from them. So we just buy wholesale. It's not like to help them get on the shell. Right. It's to supply us with the high quality input. That we can then use our brands for. You know,
Kendra: it just seems like it's complicated and there's a lot of gray area right now. Because I mean I'm sure lots of people are still selling on the black market and I'm sure the black market's going to be around for a few more years before it totally disappears. Right?
Alison Gordon: The legal market is not gray at all. It's black and white. Right. For the average person, the black market and the gray market. Like it's all bleeding into one.
Totally. Well thank you so much for having this conversation.
Alison Gordon: Thank you.
Kendra: I feel like I learned a lot. I also learned I'm way more ignorant about this industry than I thought I was. That's good. I'll have to do some more reading and I'll definitely be following you on Instagram. And how can our listeners get hold of you and learn more about 48North and Rethink?
Alison Gordon: Well they can definitely follow us on Instagram at 48North. I am on Instagram as cannabisculturist. Which is a bit hard to spell. But if you find your way to 48 North, I'm sure you'll find your way to me. I think there is a lot of, I know there's a lot of great resources online for people to understand the health and wellness aspect of cannabis. So I would just suggest Googling and like whether it's Leafly, or Miss Grass, or any of these other content producers. Like you'll find your way to good content to start to understand what you know cannabis can do for your life.
Kendra: Awesome. Well thank you so much. I really, really appreciate you taking the time out of your, I'm sure. Like you sound like a busy person, so we really appreciate it. And thank you to all the listeners and as always, we will see you again in one week on Wednesday with another awesome episode of the 360 Health Biz Podcast. Love you all, and we'll talk to you guys next time.
What the F is a lead magnet?
A lead magnet is probably one of the most important things that you offer your ideal audience as a health coach. It can also be called a freebie or a free opt-in - basically it's something that you offer to your ideal audience of high value in exchange for their email address so you can build your email list. Unfortunately, not all lead magnets are made the same. Some of them work, and some will fail. In my new video I'm going to teach you the five highest converting lead magnets for health coaches.
My five years of running a business, I've created a ton of lead magnets, but what worked when I first started out doesn't work very well today. These days, my lead magnets have a very high conversion rate and I have easily built my email list without ads by about 10 to 15 subscribers per day.
Before we consider which types of lead magnets work and which ones don't, we really need to consider how humans interact in the modern world. In 2019 people are busy AF. They describe themselves as busy, they wear a ton of hats, they have a ton going on at all times. You might even call them a bit distracted. What that really means is that people overextend themselves and they really lack free time, so if your lead magnet is going to bring new leads onto your email list, your lead magnet needs to align with today's busy world.
So first off, your lead magnet needs to be short and easy to consume. When I first started marketing online, e-books were a big thing. You could offer a free e-book and people would opt in, and there was a chance that they might actually read the entire e-book. E-books don't work anymore. Those are pretty outdated, and the reason is because of how people interact in their lives. They have a million things going on at all times. So if you offer a 30 or 50 or a hundred page e-book, people are going to feel pretty overwhelmed by that, and they might not even opt in to begin with. The chances of them actually finishing that e-book and getting to the end of it are slim to none. And remember, you actually do want people to complete your lead magnet. You really want to see all the value you can give. You want them to get all that great information, and of course you also want them to get to the end where you say, "Hey, if you like this information, you maywant to book a free call or join my group program."
So your lead magnet shouldn't take the reader longer than 5 to 10 minutes to actually get through it. Once you complete your lead magnet, read through it and time yourself. If it takes you longer than 10 minutes to get through it, it's too long and people aren't going to get there, so you should edit it down to hit that 5 to 10 minute mark.
Next, your lead magnet has to be super, super juicy. There's a good chance this is the first time this person is actually coming into contact with you and what you offer, so it needs to reel them in, and it needs to prove to them that you are worth following and worth paying attention to.
So with the lead magnet, it can be really good if you tell them something that they didn't know before, and of course this does rely on knowing who your audience member actually is. If you have people who are super new to their health, then teaching them something basic like to drink clean water and eat breakfast, might be something they haven't heard before. But if your audience are further along in their health journey, then they know to eat breakfast and drink clean water, so you'll need to beef it up and tell them something that they haven't heard before. It does come down to knowing who you're talking to.
The next thing you can do is offer them a quick win, so something that they can implement quickly that will get them a quick result. Imagine if they read your lead magnet, they did something that you told them to do, and then they actually got a result! They felt better, they had less brain fog, they had more energy, they felt better after waking up from a night's sleep. That would make them want to pay attention. That would really prove to them that you were someone to follow.
So what kind of lead magnets work best? There are five that tend to work the best in the health and wellness industry.
1) Cheat sheet
A cheat sheet is a very edited down version that kind of gives some quick information that they can refer to. Maybe it would be a quick energy cheat sheet. It would be a list of a few things that help them get more energy in any given day.
Checklists convert super well because people love something they can check off. A checklist is quick and easy to consume, plus it doesn't take you that long to make. You don't want to be spending days and days and days making a lead magnet. It shouldn't take you that long to make. Maybe it's a bedtime routine checklist because you're niche is sleep so they can actually check off all the things that they should do before bed in order to get a good night's sleep.
3) Quick guide
This is like the e-book idea, but edited down to be very, very quick. I love calling it a quick guide because it tells people up front that you don't need them to commit much time to actually get the information. So if you do have an e-book out there, edit it down, turn it into a quick guide, and make sure it only takes 5 to 10 minutes to consume.
4) Short video/short video series
Remember people have short attention spans, so you don't want to make it too involved, but a quick 10 to 15 minute video or maybe a quick video series that includes 3-5 minute videos, that can be a really good way to teach your ideal client about what they need to learn about first before they eventually want to take the step and start working with you.
5) Case study
I find this works really well for health and wellness. If you've had great results with clients and those people are willing to share their results with your people, you can create a case study. Maybe you go through one or two case studies where you show them, this person came to me with XYZ problem, this is what we did, and after this amount of time, this is the result they got and this is their testimonial.
Now go create your high quality lead magnet and let those email subscribers roll on in!
Imposter Syndrome is something that almost EVERYONE experiences. Kendra has, Christine has, and our guest, Tara Wagner has too. So while everyone experiences it (or at least 70% of people according to studies), the important thing is you have to OVERCOME it, especially if you want to succeed in your business.
Imposter Syndrome often has you struggling with yourself – questioning who you are, are you good enough, and all of these fears and doubts that may be holding you back from showing everyone what a kickass human being (and amazing health coach) that you really are!
The definition of Imposter Syndrome is this, it’s the outward appearance of having it all together, while inside you feel sick to your stomach because you think that you are a fraud. It’s you telling yourself "I just need one more certificate and then I can launch this business. Or I just need one more training, or I need a couple letters behind my name." That's imposter syndrome.
In this episode we discuss:
- the definition of imposter syndrome
- the connection between ego and impostor syndrome
- can imposter syndrome be taught to go away?
- can you have imposter syndrome in the comfort zone?
- strategies to help imposter syndrome
- emotions vs facts
- 80/20 rule – 80% mindset, 20% strategy
Imposter syndrome includes personal and spiritual development to overcome it. And if you look at any well-known business owner or anyone you admire, you will see that their success didn’t happen overnight and it didn’t happen with them sitting at the back of the room. In order to grow, in order to be successful, you have to develop yourself and dig up some shit to find out how your emotions are getting the best of you.
Tune into our new episode with Tara Wagner to learn more about imposter syndrome – and best yet, how to overcome it!
Tara Wagner is a Belief Breakthrough Coach for self-employed women barely surviving their business. She helps you identify and overcome your old habits – both practical, as well as emotional and mental – learn a better way of approaching the work/life/family juggling act, and gain confidence in your new role in your growing businesses
Get Tara’s freebie, How to Grow Your Business by Growing Yourself: https://xotara.us/b2b
Connect with Tara Wagner:
Connect with us on social:
Kendra: Hey guys, what's up? Welcome to the 360 Health Biz Podcast. It's me, it's Kendra and sadly it is just me today. Christine is off gallivanting the world as per use, and I actually don't even know where she is right now, but I suspect she might be in Bali or at least on her way there. She is not going to be with us today but that's okay because I have a pretty amazing guest joining me today to talk about impostor syndrome.
Which I think is a very relevant topic for you, the health coach or you. Whatever type of online coaching you're doing because this is something that I've experienced. I'm sure Christine has experienced that, and you guys are probably going to be coming up against this on a regular basis. It is normal, but there's also some things you can do to overcome it, and that is who my guest or what my guest is going to help us with today.
First things first, I got an awesome review on iTunes and I just wanted to quickly read that out because we love, love, love when you give us reviews. That's actually a fantastic way to support the podcast. This is from Simply Will and she says, "These ladies are our key," I'm not sure if Simply Will is he or she, so they, These ladies are wonderful, true heartfelt educators. They really want to help you with your own health and clients. I love listening to them."
Will, we love that you love listening. Thank you so much for the review guys. If you want to take two minutes out of your day and go leave us a five star review on iTunes, probably the best way to help the podcast get out to more people. If you want to support the show, it only takes two minutes. All right, so let's get into our guest today. I'm hanging out here with Tara Wagner.
Tara is a belief breakthrough coach for self-employed woman barely surviving their business. She helps you identify and overcome your old habits, both practical as well as emotional and mental. Learn a better way of approaching the work life, family, juggling act and gain confidence in your new role, in your growing business. Welcome Tara, thanks for being here.
Tara Wagner: Thank you. And it's pronounced Tara.
Kendra: I'm sorry. I better get that out of the way right away, so Tara.
Tara Wagner: It happens.
Kendra: I'm sure that happens.
Tara Wagner: Thank you so much. I am just absolutely loving you guys and this podcast. I'm really happy to be here and talking about probably the biggest elephant in the room that nobody likes to talk about, so just get really uncomfortable.
Kendra: How did you end up in this space? I would love to know how did you even end up here?
Tara Wagner: Yeah. This is a lifelong journey for me that I've probably started when I was in middle school. Where really I struggled so much with my own stuff, my own problems were pretty much all in my head. I was just struggling with who am I and am I enough, and all of these fears, all of these doubts. It led me through some really deep, dark years and I had to find tools that worked for me. It was this long process of just learning how to free myself, because anybody who's been there, they know it's exhausting to be in a hot mess. It's so much work.
Kendra: It is.
Tara Wagner: I spent years just learning how to develop myself with the underlying purpose or goal of being just being free. That is my biggest value, I just wanted to feel free. As I started doing that, I've been an entrepreneur for 20 years. I had another business. I struggled in that business so much because of my beliefs, but total blind spots; didn't see it, didn't understand why I was struggling. When I finally burned out, I sold that business.
I basically gave it away just to be done with it. With through a few years of just introspection, deep healing, deep understanding, so much of my identity was tied up in that. It was just this time of really learning and examining that had come out of that first business. During that time, this was when blogging was taking off. I started blogging just as a personal blog. It didn't actually blog a lot of my own personal stuff, but blogged other things that I was doing in my life.
As I was doing this inner work, my life was obviously starting to expand as well. Because when you start letting go of all of the should'ves and the have tos, and the who am Is, and all of that, you start to do things that nobody else is doing or that you really want to do. You're not held back by anything anymore. I started blogging about our life and I started blogging about our parenting, and how we were doing all these different things.
But it wasn't really sharing how did I get to the point where I could do things so differently? How do you let go of anger and frustration towards your kids so you can be a patient parent? How do you let go of the fear of what other people think so that you can ... At the time, I have my entire front yard was urban homestead, right? Everyone's like, "Aren't you worried about what the neighbors think?" That kind of stuff.
My blog slowly started to transform. Then we went through the recession like everyone else, my husband lost his job. We decided to take it as an opportunity and travel. That's when I had a lot of people coming to us like, "How are you doing this?" Not financially, how are you doing this? Not practically, how do you run an RV but like, "How are you living a life that you want to live without all of this here?"
I just started coaching people on it. I was coaching people through parenting. I was coaching people through lifestyle, but really very quickly what it ended up being was coaching people through their own beliefs. Through that, I pulled all my tools together and realized that, "I actually have a process. I actually have a thing that I do when I uncover a block, or a belief, or a challenge." I developed that more fully and I continued my own learning, and my own research, and testing things on clients over there.
I've been doing this for about 10 years now, and just developed a system or a process that works, that helps you to identify what is actually tripping you up. Then change it and rewrite it without all of the years of therapy and the, not to say anything bad about therapy. I've used it, many people need it. But sometimes it takes you in circles instead of going forward and I needed something that was going to, I need to just stop navel-gazing.
I was at the point, in one point of my journey where I was like, "I can dig and dig, and dig, and understand all of the deep seated problems, and where they all stemmed from." But at some point, you've got to stop the digging and you've got to start moving forward. I had to very quickly because it's so easy for me to dig and go deep, and stay deep. I had to learn a strategy that was faster than that or it was just too tempting to stay in my mark.
That's what I did and I just continue to do it, and I love it. It's one of the things that I have never gotten sick of doing and talking about; is personal development and spiritual development, and how our minds work, how our bodies relate to that and then what we can do to actually change what's not working for us.
Kendra: I love that and I totally know what you mean about going deep but not actually fixing the problem. I think sort of talk therapy for example, is really beneficial to maybe just even uncover that because so many of us are just unconscious, to begin with. We're not even aware. But I went through the talk therapy thing and it was super helpful.
I realized all these things about me, but I got to a point where I'm like, "Okay, I get it now. I get, I have these things, but I need them to be fixed. I need something that actually helps me unwind this and form different belief patterns, right?"
Tara Wagner: Right. Exactly. There's so much benefit. I think one of the biggest benefits of having a therapist or a counselor is a safe place to go to process, and to be heard. For somebody to call you out and be like, "Whoa, Whoa, where we're going right now is not helpful. Let's steer in this direction." But just that space, we're lacking that conscious space where we can really talk about these things without somebody looking at us like we're crazy.
Even though every single person deals with these things, thinks about these things, feels these things. It's universal across the board and yet, if we start to talk about them, it's like, "Oh, she's crazy. Ooh, what's wrong with her? Girl needs help." Oh yeah, we do.
Kendra: We do need it, it's fine. I only wonder what people think about me when I tell them I have three counselors. I have a whole team of counselors with all the crap going on in my head. But I think when it comes to business, what a lot of new coaches, especially health coaches come up against is how much they get in their own way. I don't think people realize how much of online business in general is mindset.
Sometimes I say 80%, I'm pulling that number out of my butt but I think it's a huge portion of it. It's like, "Sure, you can learn the funnels and the sales, and the marketing, and all that stuff. But if you don't deal with your mindset and your blocks, and your limiting beliefs, you will just continually prevent yourself from succeeding," correct?
Tara Wagner: Yeah. You're not the only one that says 80%, it's kind of the 80/20 rule, right? 80% of it is our mindset, 20% of it is our strategy. You need good strategy but if you don't feel solid behind that strategy, you can have the best strategy in the world for a funnel. But in the back of your mind, if you're thinking, "Who the hell am I? I don't belong here. Nobody should pay me. This is complete crap. What am I doing?"
All of that is going to come out in that strategy and so your strategy is just going to flop. It makes a huge difference and no, it's not the only thing we need to address, but it is the thing we need to make sure is solid because it's the foundation. Anything you're building, if you're building it on a rocky foundation or a wiggly foundation ... [inaudible 00:10:21] foundations wiggle, a shaky foundation, it's not going to be solid.
You're not going to have a solid business. That was me and my first business. I had a great skill. I had a good business plan. There were holes in it because of my mindset that I didn't notice and I had potential. I had a great marketplace, I had great marketing, I was doing really well.
But I kept stopping myself because of what was going on in the back of my mind that I didn't even want to become conscious of. Because it was so uncomfortable to look at those ideas of like, "Am I good enough or who the hell am I? Or all of those things." All of the opportunity was there but I couldn't reach out and grab it, because my head wasn't in the right place.
Kendra: Yeah. Absolutely. That makes so much sense and I think a lot of listeners are going to have [inaudible 00:11:16] moments as we go through what we're talking about today. But can you clarify to our listeners, we're talking about impostor syndrome, what is that like, how does that actually manifest?
Tara Wagner: Yeah. Impostor syndrome is the outward appearance of having it all together, while inside you feel sick to your stomach because you think that you are a fraud. It is literally the thing, here's a great example. I see this one the most. Women will say, "I just need one more certificate and then I can launch this business. Or I just need one more training, or I need a couple letters behind my name." That's imposter syndrome [inaudible 00:11:56].
It's usually a rock in our stomach. It's usually a constricting healing in our throat or our chest when we think about putting ourselves out there or talking about what we do to other people. If we think about going to a network events and we just have the shrinking feeling of like, "Oh my gosh, that's where all the real professionals are. I don't belong there." That's impostor syndrome.
But the most important thing is that; outwardly, we look bad ass. We look hot, our stuff looks good. Inwardly, we're the hot mess.
Kendra: Right. Yeah. That's such a great way to describe it. You described it perfectly, especially for health coaches because I see it all the time. They get their IIN certificate or ITN, or FDN, or whatever it is, which really is enough education to be successful. But then they're like, "Oh well, I should get this certification. I should get a certified in essential oils. Oh, I need to do a homeopathy."
They just end up with 10 different certifications, yet they haven't taken any training on business. They haven't put themselves out there or shown up, or really taken any sort of action in their business because they're just waiting. They think they continually need more knowledge. But what I like to say is, I think an expert is someone who just knows a little bit more than someone else, right?
Tara Wagner: Right. Absolutely. The thing that we really get to understand is that we can't get to that expert status without actually taking the path, and putting in the hours and the real life practice. You don't get to be the best cardiologists in the world unless you put in 10 or 20 years of trial and error, and research, and testing things, and listening to your patients, and really delving in deeply into your craft.
But that means paying patience from day one. You don't get to do all of that unless you have real patience. It's the same thing with coaching or I see it a lot in photography, anything like that. Where if you really want to be the expert, the only way to get there is to get out and start doing the things that will bring you to that expert status.
Kendra: Absolutely. Yeah. It's exactly true. The only thing that's ever going to make you feel good enough and that you actually know a topic really well, is actually just getting out there and doing it. But I'll say, if you've gone to IIN or FDN or whatever it is, you already have everything you need. You already know so much more than the average person, you are an expert. You're only going to go up from there, but not unless you actually do the work.
Tara Wagner: Absolutely. Because the thing is, if we just allow that thought in the back of our mind of like, "I'm not there yet, I'm not good enough yet," it'll start holding us back. We'll sit in the back of the room when we're at event, we won't speak up. When we have a thought or when we're ... If we're at a party and somebody's talking about needing something or having some challenge with something that we can solve, we won't speak up to it, right?
We won't go after big opportunities. We will feel that insecurity and will lack that confidence in our gifts, in our current abilities. Then because of that, therefore never develop them to their full potential. We end up staying small or we end up playing, wait, how did I say this before? We end up staying small because we're playing small, right? If you want to be bigger, you got to play bigger. That's the only way. My husband, he does CrossFit.
He doesn't get to this point where he can with these big heavy weights, by lifting the small weights. He gets there by, he started with the small weights and then he got the bigger weights, and the bigger weights, and the bigger ... That's the only way to really grow, is to pick up something that is too heavy for your muscles. Literally that's the way our muscles grow is like, "Oh, this is too heavy. I need to send more resources to this area."
It's the same thing in our business. We will not grow without getting uncomfortable and putting ourselves into situations that [cause quarrel 00:16:10].
Kendra: Yeah. Absolutely. Can you speak a little bit to maybe the connection between ego and impostor syndrome?
Tara Wagner: Oh, it's one and the same. Okay, let me get on my [inaudible 00:16:26] a little bit. Here's my thing of impostor syndrome. It is an inherently selfish and self-centered experience. Because it is our mind saying, "The only thing that matters is what other people think of me." For everybody, especially those that are in a health business, you're here to serve other people. It's no longer about you. You get to get yourself out of the way.
You get to be imperfect. You get to get criticized. Sometimes, you get to make terrible mistakes and embarrass yourself because it's not about you. For me, ultimately we're getting deep on this real fast.
Tara Wagner: For me, impostor syndrome, it's ego. It is you allowing yourself to be self-indulgent and self-centered because you are taking your eyes off of what actually matters. You're here to serve other people. You're here to make an impact. That means even humbly doing so, you get to show up just as you are. You may suck at it and that doesn't matter because you are here to serve other people, not yourself.
Kendra: Yeah. I think a lot of it is like this maybe self-protection, self-preservation thing, right? Because getting out there online is really uncomfortable. Putting your shit out to a bunch of strangers on the internet is weird. That's not normal. We're in this first generation of people who are actually doing this, right? It's uncomfortable and your ego, your self-preservation wants to protect you and it's like, "Don't do that. That's scary. Keep doing it if you feel like it's safe," right?
Tara Wagner: Absolutely. I love that you called it that because I really dislike the topic of self-sabotage, because our egos are never trying to sabotage us, ever. Our ego is trying to protect us and our ability to meet our needs. What impostor syndrome really is, is a desire to be loved, to be appreciated, to connect with other people. Those are very legitimate needs. Those needs should not go anywhere and they're not going to go anywhere.
All impostor syndrome is, is a belief that those needs are going to be threatened if we show up to do this thing that we worry that we're not quite good enough for. That's all it is. It's a self-protection mechanisms to make sure that we can continue to meet our needs. One of the strategies that people really need to practice when it comes to overcoming impostor syndrome is look at, "What are my needs right now?"
Because emotions, the only thing emotions are, are signals of our needs. Unhealthy or somebody might call negative emotions, are signals of unmet needs or needs that are being threatened. Positive emotions are signals of needs that are being met. If we're feeling anxious, if we're feeling afraid, all that's telling us is, "I have a need that either is not being met or that is being threatened right now or I perceive as being threatened right now."
If we can identify what that need is and focus on meeting that need, a lot of times the fear will go away with it. Our mind just wants to know that we're not ignoring these other aspects that are really important to us.
Kendra: Yeah. Do you think with impostor syndrome, is that something that you can coach your clients to not have it all and go away, or is it something that you feel will continually show its head as time goes on, but you just have better strategies to actually deal with it?
Tara Wagner: It varies. I have seen it completely go away for some people. For most people, that's not the case. For most people, it just is a different experience. Instead of it being this, "Oh my gosh, what's everybody thinking of me? I'm terrified, I can't move. I'm paralyzed." Instead of it being that it's like, "Oh, there's that old friend again, he hi by and move on." It's just, Oh what's the word I'm looking for?
It's just weakens, right? It's lost its emotional charge. It's there but it doesn't have the same impact. Over time, depending on how much energy we put into cultivating the alternative, we can get to the point where it never comes up or rarely comes up. But that does take a lot of practice and a lot of focus.
Kendra: Yeah. I agree. I was having a conversation with a coach not that long ago and I was just telling her, because she's just like, "Well, I just need to do this and that I won't be scared." I'm like, "Do you realize that the fear doesn't really go away? Every time you do something new and you launch a new program, or a new service, or you make a pivot in your business, you're going to experience fear. It doesn't actually go away. You just get to the point where it doesn't hold you back from taking action."
She was like, "Oh, I thought it just went away." I'm like, "No, everyone has fear. Doing something different is always scary, but it's not like it just goes away for any of these mindset blocks we probably come across. It's about actively working on them regularly," right?
Tara Wagner: I think what happens when you do get to the point where you're really practice and you're really competent in something, what happens is that the fear shifts. You don't perceive it as fear anymore. You have the same sensations but it's not fear behind it, it's excitement, right? Because they're so closely related in the body. The only difference is, what's the thought like pushing that sensation out.
That's really what happens. Before this podcast, I felt the same thing. I was like, "Ooh, I got some butterflies. Oh okay, my throat is tightening up a little bit." That's just my signal of, "Oh, I'm doing something fun. I'm doing something good." Because if I'm not feeling that, I'm not challenging myself, I'm not putting myself out there. But now instead of 10, 15 years ago, that would've been like, "Oh my gosh, I can't do this. My throat's going to close up, I'm not going to be able to speak. I'm going to make a fool out of myself."
All of those thoughts would have come with that sensation. Now my automatic habit when that sensation comes up is, "All right, take a deep breath. Let's center ourselves. Let's remind ourselves why we're here, who are we here to serve? What are we about?" And it shifts. That sensation where it would have lasted, honestly, I probably would've felt it like three days prior to the interview and then just been sick all the way through it.
Now it's like 30 seconds and then it just shifts right back into like, "Where are we going from here?" It's just an experience and you don't have the meaning that we applied to it. Like, "Oh man, do we love to apply meetings to things that aren't always that meaningful."
Kendra: Yeah. So true.
Tara Wagner: You mentioned earlier too that, oh-
Kendra: Go ahead.
Tara Wagner: You mentioned earlier that it was so common. One of the things that I like to point out to people is, it's incredibly common. The research that's been done on it says that probably about 70% of people deal with it at some point. Then it comes up any time you are doing something new and big, which basically means if you're doing something of value. What I try to remind people is that, the 30% of people who aren't experiencing this are probably ... They're not superhuman person who just has it all together.
They're probably the portion of the population who are calling it in. They don't have big goals, that are not pushing their boundaries. They're not getting outside their comfort zone. They not trying to make a difference. They're waking up, going to work, coming back, watching TV, going to bed, repeating, right? These are people who are in a comfortable place. The reason why it is so prevalent amongst entrepreneurs is because you are constantly pushing at that boundary, you're constantly putting yourself into a new position.
It's like once you make it to five figures, then you're pushing six. When she make it to six, she's like, "Can I do multiple six." You're always, always, always expanding, which I think is a really good thing. There's three things in life that will grow you. I call them people growing machines. One of them is marriage, the second one is parenting and the third one is owning your own business. All of those will require you to not get comfortable.
You have to continue trying new things, put yourself into new situations. As soon as you have it figured out, something changes. It's just the nature of what we're doing. It's important to understand that if you're feeling it, it means you're on the right track. Because it's the high achievers that feel it the most. All of the research will show that every high achiever will feel impostor syndrome.
I always tell people, "Congratulations. You're in good company. That means you're actually doing something about you."
Kendra: Yeah. Oh, I love that. That's so interesting. Yeah, speaking to the people who are living inside their comfort zone, there's nothing wrong with that. A lot of people, they just put comfort and security really hard values, and I hear your dog. That's totally okay and that's fine, but if you want to have a business, you can't run an online business while just hanging out in your comfort zone.
It just doesn't happen. It's really important to realize that you have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable.
Tara Wagner: Exactly. Those are my thoughts, exactly. We get to ... Okay.
Kendra: Cute dog.
Tara Wagner: She's just a menace. She's just been such anxious little girl since our other one passed.
Kendra: Oh, that's sad. Oh, oh.
Tara Wagner: Now she's happy. She's on my lap.
Kendra: That's good. We are dog friendly here on the Health Biz Podcast.
Tara Wagner: I'm telling you, it's like a toddler. You can leave them home alone but they're just as needy sometimes.
Kendra: So true. I would totally think that would be true.
Tara Wagner: Yeah.
Kendra: All right. Let's talk about some strategies because I think now we've shown the audience that what they might be feeling and now we've given it a name. Because they've probably experienced those things, but maybe they don't know that it's a thing. It's impostor syndrome and that's something that we all go through, especially as high achievers.
When you coach people, what type are you getting doing visualizations, are you reframing beliefs, are you doing meditation stuff, what does that look like?
Tara Wagner: When I'm working one-on-one with somebody, it's going to be very unique to their personality and what really speaks to them. But when I'm talking about it like this, there's a few things that I like to teach. The first thing is that, in order to do any of this work, we have to detach our emotions from the work you're about to do. It's very important to remember that feelings are not facts.
We really love to glorify them in our culture. We really love to talk about them as though they're just so amazing. They are important, but they are not as important as we often say they are. The reason that we need to detach them is, because as you're going into impostor syndrome, you're going to come up against some stuff that does not feel good.
It's important to take a stance of non-attachment in that, so being able to observe the feelings and not believe the feelings, right? Because otherwise what happens as we start digging into this stuff, we hit on something that feels terrible. Then we just wallow in it and we feel terrible, and we quit our business. Instead of, "Okay, I'm noticing this feeling and what's that telling me about my deeds, how do I want to approach this, oh, isn't that interesting?"
Kind of going into it like a curious observer and just watching what comes up as it comes up. We really need to look at this from a more logical place, because impostor syndrome is so emotional. It's so untrue and so bringing in that logical mind is really important. That's always the first step of, just mentally prepare yourself. I know it's not a very practical step.
Which is kind of mentally prepare yourself of like, "Okay, some stuff is going to come up, how do I want to deal with that when it comes up? What do I want to say to myself or remind myself when I start to feel maybe some shame or anything like that, that might come up as I'm digging into this process?" That's always the first one, to kind of set that intention of, "I'm in control here. My emotions don't get to tell me what we're doing."
Kendra: Yeah. I love that because it's like, just because you think it doesn't mean it's true.
Tara Wagner: Absolutely. Amen. Hallelujah. I need it on a t-shirts and a tattoo, and a business card to pass around to a lot of people I know.
Kendra: Yeah. It's so true.
Tara Wagner: I'd like to coach people that we know.
Kendra: Yeah. I love that and that was one of the first things I learned when I started doing talk therapy. I was like, "Oh, just because I feel this and it's having this effect on my, physically and emotionally doesn't mean it's actually a true story." A lot of times it was not a true story. It was just some random story I had created in my head that wasn't actually true.
Tara Wagner: Exactly. It gets imprinted because of a situation or maybe messages that we just repeatedly heard. But that doesn't make it real, especially when most of those messages were created from the mind of a child. It didn't have all the understanding. They didn't understand the difference between I did a bad thing and I'm a bad person. We take in these messages from a really limited and sometimes worked perception or perspective.
Then we just go about believing that they're true, because the mind is actually designed to reinforce its own beliefs. Everything that has seeds, it will say, "Oh that, I'm going to use this as a way to reinforce my belief." If it sees something to the alternative, if it sees something that contradicts its belief, it'll just call that the exception to the rule. Like, "Oh, that's just that one."
It's like if somebody gives you a compliment and you're like, "Oh no, but I really suck. I was good at that, but I really actually suck at this," right? That's just what your mind does. It will hold on to its belief and so you just continue to believe that belief that you believe it. We never questioned that because we're not taught to question our thoughts and our emotions.
A lot of times, we're either taught to ignore our emotions or we're taught to glorify them. There's no middle healthy ground of, yes, our emotions are signals that we need to listen to, but we need to make sure that they're not running the show.
Kendra: Yeah. Something came to mind when you were saying that and I think this is a quote from maybe Louise Hay. That was the first sort of mindset book. It's called, You Can Heal Your Life. It was the first mind that really started to make me realize that I was manifesting some certain things that I might say, I was having the same experience overall with dating and relationships.
I just couldn't find one and I eventually realized that it was me perpetuating that situation. I think what she said is that, "Your beliefs form your reality and then your reality confirms your belief." It just this vicious cycle, if you continue to say, "There is no men in this town, I'll never find a relationship. I'm never going to find someone to love. I'm never going to find someone to settle down with."
I'm just going to keep having that experience. Then that's just going to reinforce what I believe about relationships, right?
Tara Wagner: Because how can we see anything if we're wearing a blue tinted glasses? Everything we're seeing is going to be blue. How could it be anything other than that until we realize, "Oh, I've got these blue tinted glasses on me, let me take these off and then see what it looks like."
Tara Wagner: It's, how could it be any other way, that's just the mechanisms of the brain. That's just how your mind works. It's not a bad thing, it's a little outdated and it doesn't grow with us.
Kendra: Yeah. Exactly. There was one belief that I come up all the time and it's just so funny because I get people saying, "I can't raise my prices because people in this area can't pay that." I'm like, "Do you realize that's just your perception, you actually have not seen into those people's bank accounts. You have no idea what they can and can't afford. That's just something you're telling yourself. You're telling me in this whole city of 200,000 people, that you can't find 50 people to pay for your services? Think about that."
Tara Wagner: Exactly. Now if you live in a town of 100 and it's in the middle of a low income, sure, I'll give you that.
Kendra: Yeah. Totally.
Tara Wagner: But you're right, the majority of people are surrounded by opportunity. I was in my business, right, but you just can't see because you can't see past your own nose, really.
Tara Wagner: Yeah. That first step is really about setting that intention. The second step is about digging into the experience of impostor syndrome itself. What I tend to tell people to do is journal about it. The reason that I like pens and paper journaling is it slows you down enough, that you can actually get into more of the unconscious or even just the less conscious, right? Not necessarily unconscious, but things that we can zoom my life, we're just typing answers out.
Asking ourselves the questions of, "What was the situation where I was experiencing this, or what situation am I afraid of that might bring this up? What are the thoughts around that situation? How do I feel, how does my body feel in those situations? What are my beliefs or my worries, right?" Because sometimes the beliefs are completely unconscious. We might really be aware of them and we might be completely unaware of them, but the worries not so much and that it's often really closely related to the beliefs.
What am I worrying about is going to happen. For me, I always had this thought in the back of my mind. I don't know where this image came from, but this is just the way the brain works. I pictured people with pitchforks running me out of town, I have no idea why. I live in a big city, I must've seen something somewhere as a child. I have no idea.
Kendra: It's funny.
Tara Wagner: But impostor syndrome, it looked like a crowd of angry people, maybe with pitchforks or maybe just with this, but they were just charging me out of town, that's what it was for me. Spend some time, really understand the entire experience that you're having around it. Oftentimes, you're going to see some things come up that you weren't even aware of. Many times, not always, at least a layer of that impostor syndrome will fall away or it'll get a little bit lighter just through the awareness of it.
You'll have kind of an aha moment or you'll realize how silly it is to think people with pitchforks are going to come after you, and you can talk yourself down from the ledge a little bit. Then from there, it's really about looking at the impact that it's had on you. I will take people through some exercises and generally I will have people do this on their own. Because if we have somebody watching us during this process, what will end up happening is, we'll filter.
I would never have told anybody 10 years ago about people with pitchforks. I barely could admit it to myself, I'm not going to tell someone else even if it was a therapist or a coach. Just taking the time to look at these things yourself and look at, "What impact has this had on me, where would I be in my life right now if I didn't deal with this?" Now, this doesn't mean that where you are right now isn't good enough.
If I look at it, I'm like, "Well gosh, I would've probably still been in my other business and I probably would've scaled that, and kind of glad that I didn't do that." That's not the point though. The point is to realize just how much further I could've been as a person or in my own personal goals if I didn't have this thing just dogging me all the time telling me, "I'm not good enough, I'm not good enough," and constantly holding me back.
Because for most people, impostor syndrome looks like going 70% of the way, right? Never really giving it your all and then being able to blame that when you don't actually experience success. "Well, I didn't do this. I didn't do that. I could've done it, but didn't." It keeps us in that safe comfort zone, right? Really looking at those things and looking at how is this causing you harm, how is it trying to keep you safe but really keeping you from the things that you've wanted.
Where could you have been in your life at this point if you had dealt with this five years from now? This is a little bit of a painful step for people. I actually will tell people, "If you don't know that you can do this objectively, if you really think that it might spiral you down a little bit, don't do it." It's not a necessary step but I find that it helps to create the motivation to stop ignoring the problem, right?
Because then it's like, "You know what, am I going to allow the next five years?" There's a difference between living five years and living the same year five times, which one am I going to allow? "Do I still want to be dealing with this in five years or do I want to really confront this?" They said, "Take it head on and change it." Hopefully the answer is, yes.
Kendra: Yeah. I love that because I think pain is a big motivator, right? People make decisions and take action based on emotion more than they do anything else. For me when I started my business, I just had a knee injury, I was working in forestry. I was trying to be a professional skier, all of which I needed my knee for. I was like, "I need to do something else," so I started an online business and it was terrifying.
But the fear of, "If I don't do this, I'm not going to have a job. I'm going to have to move back to the city, from the beautiful small towns that they live in because there's no jobs here," right? That pain was such a big motivator for me and so I think it can be a really good motivator. But you're right, people have to be okay with going into a dark place.
Tara Wagner: Yeah. It's not appropriate for everybody. There's been times in my life where that was not what I needed to do, and so have a level of self-awareness of like, "Is this going to be helpful for me?" But don't shy away from it. We live in a world right now that is all about fluffy mindset work and like, "Let's stroke the ego and make ourselves feel good." That's not real mindset work.
Real mindset work is to look at all sides of it and develop ourselves even when it's tough, even when it's messy, even when we really don't want to get up early and meditate. It's about doing the things that don't necessarily always feel great. Again, we don't want to wallow in it. Feelings aren't facts, but we do want to use the mechanisms in our brain. There's two things that motivate us, pain and pleasure.
When it boils down to it, we're just big giant mammals and it's pain and pleasure, and so use both of them, right? The next thing that I'll have people do is look at, where might you be without this, what could be created, what might happen? Again, this is the same thing. Some people will avoid this question because it's too scary. That's okay, take the steps that you can take and be okay with that.
If you can't take the big giant leap forward, pull a Bill Murray, take the little tiny baby steps and then guess what? If you're hiking up a mountain, right, when you get halfway up, the second half doesn't look that far away anymore. It doesn't feel that big and scary. Take the step that feels okay now and be at peace with that, and come back to the next step when you're ready to come back to the next step.
If that's six weeks from now or six months from now, or two years from now ... I hate to break it to you but you're never going to stop growing and you're never going to get there in this lifetime. The whole point is to just do this work. So just do the work and make peace with the fact that you're not going to have it all together. None of us do, we like to look like we do on Instagram.
Kendra: Absolutely. I love that analogy because I'm a crazy mountain woman. It's so true, when I hike mountains where you're at the bottom and you're like, "Holy fuck, that is a long way off." But you gain elevations so quickly, even when you're hiking super slow. All that matters is that you're putting one foot in front of the other and you're moving forward.
Tara Wagner: Yeah. If I were to stand at the bottom of a staircase and be like, "I need to get to that top step in one stretch," I'm going to hurt myself, right? But if I get to the first step and I'm like, "Oh, that's a little closer and that's a little closer, and that's a little closer," but we don't do that. We're living in a culture right now of instant gratification and so if you don't get there overnight, we think that we're failures.
I would encourage you to look at any successful person that you admire and find them in a podcast, in a book, in a blog post, in an interview talking about their journey and their mistakes, and how long it took them to create that overnight success. Because it's just not real. It's just a fabrication of our current media right now, and it's not intentional.
It's just the way that things look and the way our brains perceive them. It's doing more harm than good if we're not paying attention to it.
Kendra: Yeah. I think comparison is a really, we all do it. It happens and [inaudible 00:42:59] easy when you're new. You're like, "I'll have health coaches look at my business," and they're like, "You put out so much content. It's crazy, I just don't know how you do that." I'm like, "Yeah, because I have a whole team. The only thing I do and my business now is create content, my team runs the rest of the business for me."
Four years ago, I was doing everything so I wasn't everywhere and I was struggling to get content out. It's just like you can't compare your business to someone else's who's at a different place in their journey. Nobody really blows up overnight, I don't think that happens. Maybe it's happened to the odd person, but it's like they [inaudible 00:43:34] the exception, the way up.
Tara Wagner: If it happened to that odd person, were they able to sustain it?
Tara Wagner: Because most of the time, I think of this all the time, I'm like, "Would I be ready if Oprah called?" I don't know where I heard that question. It wasn't my question, heard it somewhere else. But I'm like, "Oh, snap. No, I wouldn't." Then my next question is, "Okay, what would take me one step closer to being ready when Oprah called?" Because the truth is, that kind of success you've got to build up to, it's like the muscles in the gym, right?
You can't go in and lift a 400 pound weight without putting in some years of practice to get to the point where you can sustain that type of success. It's the same with our business. I know that people hear this all the time, "Don't compare your beginning to someone else's middle or end." But what I want people to do when they are doing that, to keep it practical. Because it's not very helpful to say don't compare, because our brains are actually designed to compare.
We're going to compare, we're not going to stop it. Compare better. If there's somebody in your industry that you admire, you love their business, you love what they're doing and you want to do what they're doing, scroll back on their Instagram feed to when they started and compare, "Okay, what were they doing then and what am I doing, did this work for them? Where did they really start to gain traction and what were they doing around that time?"
Learn from those things, but learn from their beginning. Actually do the work to compare yourself to the right place in their trajectory.
Kendra: I agree.
Tara Wagner: Because in 10 years, they're going to now be 20 years ahead of you. You're going to always feel like you're chasing something, instead of just learning the things that you need to learn to build the business that you want to build.
Kendra: Yeah. I love that actually. That's a really good idea because yeah, it's true. We do compare ourselves regardless, but we're all different people and we're all in different places. We should use comparison maybe as a tool to grow or as [crosstalk 00:45:33] right?
Tara Wagner: Leverage it. It's going to happen, you're going to compare so learn how to do it in a healthy way. I actually have a whole video on this, on YouTube of, I think it's called how to stop comparing. But really it's about how to do it better, how to make sure that you're doing it in a healthy way. One of those ways might be, put some freaking blinders on, then subscribe from these people.
It's just not necessary and you're losing your voice trying to emulate someone else's. But when you do compare and do so when you're feeling healthy, right? We all have days when the last place we should be is on Instagram, looking at our competitor's feed. Then we have our days where we're like, "We got our shit together, we're feeling good, we can do this."
Use those moods to do that research and learn what worked for them and how can I apply this to my business. Leverage what's going to naturally happen in our brains to benefit you, versus harm you.
Kendra: Right. I love that. What would you say is one thing, one small step that our listeners could do today to maybe help with this situation with impostor syndrome?
Tara Wagner: It's not a small step. It's probably the most important step and that is; practice the shit out of it. Everybody wants to say, "Oh, that's not me. I'm just not good on Facebook live, that's just not who I am. I'm not a public speaker. I'm an introvert." I'm sorry, I'm going to lay down some tough love here. Introvert does not mean social anxiety. Introvert does not mean shy. Introvert does not mean you can't run your business.
Introvert does not mean you cannot be a great speaker. Introvert means after you do those things, you need to go rest because you're tired. You just gave all your energy away. That's what introvert means. We need to practice the mindset that we want to emulate because all of our mindsets, whether it's impostor syndrome or some other fear, or overwhelm, or whatever it might be, all they are is habits. You're not faking it till you make it, you're practicing a new habit until you develop it.
That's all it is. Outline literally, "What would I do without impostor syndrome? If I loved and approved to myself, even though I had gaps; skill gaps, experience gaps. Experience gaps, things that I'm not happy with. Even if I had those things, but I still liked myself. I still knew I was in the right place, doing the right thing at the right time, what would I do? What would I say? How would I show up? How would I hold my body? What would the expression on my face look like?"
Then practice that. Practice it in your bathroom, practice it before you get on a call. Practice it before you go to a networking event. Practice it before you get on an airplane. Literally practice who you want to be. Because who you are right now is only that, because you've done decades of practice. Thankfully, it doesn't take decades of practice to change it around, it might just take a few conscious efforts for you to really start seeing that traction.
But that is the most important thing. Mindset work really truly, does not happen in your mind. It happens when you hit pavement, when you start putting it into real life. If you're not doing that, you're not going to see changes. You can journal, you can meditate. I'm a big meditator, don't get me wrong. But if you're meditating to change your personality or to grow as a person, it's not going to happen until you practice those things.
Your body needs to experience it for your mind to finally fully get it. There's no other way around. I wish there was, I wish I could make it easier. It's going to be awkward and you're going to hate it, but that's why you practice in your bathroom first. Then you slowly just [intro 00:49:35] way into the next little step.
Kendra: Yeah. I love that. I love the idea of practicing for who you want to be. I noticed actually, just sometimes there's a small things that you can do too. I noticed that I became way more confident when I stopped working in front of my desk in my pajamas. Every day I get up, I make myself look nice. Nice, like I'm going to a job. At the end of the day, I clean off my desk, I wipe it down, I clean the office.
I make everything look professional and I get up like I'm going to a real job every day. Because before, I used to just hang up my pajamas in bathroom all day. I'm like, "That didn't work for me."
Tara Wagner: It's so true because, again, what our body does, our mind is interpreting. If we're showing up in our PJ's and there's nothing wrong with that. I've had years of working in my PJ's. I got a lot done, I created some success and it was awesome. But there will come a time in everybody's business where you'll notice that what got you here, won't get you there, right? You'll have to make some sort of shift and I had the same shift.
There's something magical about putting on your best pair of shoes when you're just going into your home office. You step into bad-ass mode, like, "I've got my boots on, we're going to kick some butt today." It's the same as, if you just start smiling, right? It changes the way that you feel. What we do affects how we show up. Absolutely, take a shower, do your hair, do your makeup. It doesn't have to be like the full thing.
But if you're showing up as your best damn self, if you were really owning what you do, who you are, how you do it, what would that look like? Maybe that is yoga pants, rock on but do it consciously. Consciously create that mindset because what's happening right now is, the mindsets getting created. Everything we do is created in the mindset. But most of the time it's just unconscious. It's haphazard, it's kind of thrown together and it's usually not very helpful.
Kendra: Yeah. I totally agree. I love that. When I work with people I'm always like, "Tell me what your perfect work day looks like. What are you doing, what do you do when you get up in the morning, what types of appointments do you have?" It seems to be a really hard question for people to answer, because they're not even really sure what, maybe even they want that to look like.
Tara Wagner: Yes. Or don't even know what it could look like. I remember that question being asked of me and it took me years to be able to create my ideal routine. It really happened because of trial and error, like, "Well, let me just start with this and see how that works. Oh, you know what? This is really causing a problem. Let me shift that." Again, these things take time, there's no overnight success in our morning routines either.
But there's just something powerful about consciously designing what we want to live, what we want to experience. Like I said, it's not easy. I think that it can be easy but it's probably not going to be for most people, because we're not very enlightened beings and so we're going to bring all of our challenges into it. That's what makes it not easy. But if we can just make peace with that, the process starts to unfold and it gets easier. Even though we're doing all this hard work, it just doesn't feel the same way anymore.
It doesn't feel as hard. It's just like going to the gym. You don't love it at first but you keep going because you know you need it. After a while, you want to go, you crave it. You still love it, like, "I will still rather be in bed at 4:30 in the morning," but I get up and I meditate because I know I'm going to feel good later. It's the same thing, we put in the work now for the benefits down the road.
Kendra: Yeah. I just really love when people realize that they can create and design their own lives in whichever way that they want to. We see so many people in victim mode who think everything's just happening to them, and I can see that in someone and just feel sad because I'm just man-like. If they just took personal responsibility and started being aware of how they were creating their own experience, they could have their dream life, right?
Tara Wagner: Yeah. Exactly. That really brings it back to that value of freedom for me. That's really where I was, of just feeling trapped to my own thoughts and emotions and so many people don't realize they're even trapped. That is the one thing. If I can leave one message on this world when I die, it's that, it's up to you what you perceive 100%. I'm not even talking about law of attraction and attracting what you desire or anything like that.
I'm talking about just basic brain mechanics. What you focus on is how you feel. You can literally create pretty much any personality you want, any outcome you want, if you're willing to put in the work and do it. If there's something in your life that you don't like, you can change it. If you're willing to do the work now, that work might be easy for some people and hard for other people based on where you're starting.
But it's still ultimately a choice. If it's not serving you, if it's not serving other people, when are you going to let it go?
Kendra: Yeah. Totally. Oh, love it. I love it. Well, can you let us know, Tara, how listeners can connect with you and learn more from you if they wanted to do some of this work?
Tara Wagner: Absolutely. I actually have a workbook that I put together that you guys are welcome to have. If you go to xoTara.us/isworkbook, so impostor syndrome workbook, what I've actually done is take in and broken down eight steps. Some of which we've talked about today, some of which we haven't, that people can walk through to start this process. Really in a powerful way, I really tried to put some real coaching in there.
I tell people all the time, "I'm a tough coach, not a fluff coach." I didn't put a lot of fluff in there. It's real practical, tangible steps to really give people some guidance on like, "What can I do with this, how can I really overcome this?" It's xoTara.us/isworkbook. They can download that for free. You can find me on YouTube @TaraWagner and I do weekly coaching videos there, so lots of practical, tangible stuff.
I tried to keep it really down to earth because I know how frustrating it is to talk about mindset and then walk away and go, "But how do I do that?" Then Instagram @TaraWagner, as well.
Kendra: Cool. Yeah. We will make sure to link to all of that in the show notes. I was just creeping on your YouTube channel. It looks like you've got lots of great videos there. I'm a big fan of YouTube so I was like, "Yeah."
Tara Wagner: You do?
Kendra: Awesome. Well thank you so much, Tara, and thank you to all our listeners. We appreciate you hanging out with us and having this very uncomfortable, but hopefully enlightening conversation. Make sure to connect with Tara if you are noticing that in yourself. I'm sure she has lots of fantastic tips in her free workbook. I will see you guys in a week from now and in two weeks from now, hopefully it will be me with my compadre, Christine again. Hopefully she'll be back from gallivanting the world. Thank you so much guys, and I'll see you guys in the next episode.
In my five years as a health coach, I created and successfully launched five different group programs! And in my experience doing this and also from the fact that I also launched a few failures, I have learned there is an optimal timeline that's really important for you to stick with if you want to successfully launch and monetize a group program with your health coaching clients. And trust me, you do want to make money when you launch your group program because they are a ton of work.
When it comes to group coaching programs, I see a lot of health coaches jumping the gun, meaning that they are creating and launching a group program before they are ready and before they have actually validated it. This results in limited sales that leads to frustration, poverty, and even something I call "launch trauma". In order for you to be successful launching a group program, you need to make sure you are in the right place in your business journey or there is a very likely chance that this isn't going to be successful for you at all.
In order for you to determine if you're in the right place to even start considering launching a group program, let's sit down and answer the following questions.
1) are you working with private clients?
2) have you been working with clients for at least a year?
3) have you generated at least 10 testimonials from clients who have seen results in your signature coaching program?
4) are you generating at least 4 to $5,000 per month with coaching clients?
5) are you actively working on building your email list?
If the answer is no to any of these questions, that tells me that you're probably not ready to launch a group program, even if some other expert has told you otherwise.
If you haven't worked with any private clients and you don't have experience, that means you haven't gotten a result for anyone. That also means you don't actually know the questions that your ideal client is asking. You don't know what areas they need the most help in and the areas that they are challenged with more than others. I know there are so many different online experts out there that just rave about the financial gains of doing a group program. But if you don't have the experience, if you don't really know your ideal client and the questions and concerns that they have, then you don't really have a leg to stand on. In the journey to launching an online group program successfully, you need to start working with private clients. You need to validate your method. You need to get them results. You need to tweak your program and make it the absolute best before you even consider launching a group program.
I truly believe you need to be working with clients privately for at least a year before considering launching a group program. Because not only does it give you the time to get experience, to increase your confidence, to learn the things about your client, but also it gives your clients enough time to actually experience the result. Because as you know with health, it can be complex. There can be a lot of trial and error. There are people you're going to work with who are going to get results slower. And if you don't work with people for long enough, then you don't really know all the trials and tribulations that can come up as you try to work with someone to optimize their health. So I would say a year is enough time to see the deficiencies in your method, and there's always going to be some, none of us start out perfect, so that you can tweak them, make it better, and ultimately create a better method that you can actually sell as a group program.
Next we're going to discuss testimonials. Testimonials are so important. Think of the last time you bought something off Amazon. You probably scrolled down to the reviews and you looked in and saw what other people were saying. And if you saw a higher amount of bad reviews versus good reviews, then there's a good chance that you decided not to buy that product and you started looking for something different, right? The same goes for your signature coaching program. You need to prove to the buyer that you can actually get someone a result. And when it comes to testimonials, the more the better. But I think at least 10 is the minimum you need to have before considering launching a group program.
Now if you're totally confused what I mean when I keep saying signature coaching program, don't worry. Check out my video How to Create a Signature Coaching Program for Your Health and Wellness Business to learn more.
In order to be successful in launching a group program, you want to have some level of financial stability. This is because it takes the exact same amount of your energy and time to sell something that is $300 versus something that is $3,000. So if you don't have financial stability and you're struggling to pay your bills, a group coaching program is not the right way to go because it's going to take you so much more work and so much more effort to actually generate enough money to feel financially comfortable. But if you focus on working with higher-ticket coaching clients, then it's way easier to hit the amount of money that you need to pay your bills, have a little bit extra, and to feel comfortable with your financial status.
My last point is about having an active email lists or actively working on building one. This is incredibly important. When we sell a group coaching program, because it is a lower priced program, it's always going to be less than your private coaching program. So you're going to need to sell that program to more people. You don't need to have a massive list to be successful selling a group program. I only had 500 or 600 people on my email list, and I made a few thousand dollars, when I launched my first group program. But you do need to have a list to have people to sell to. But the success of you launching a group program and then future group programs is directly correlated with the size and the health of your email list. So if you don't have a list or you're not actively out there trying to build your list, then I would say this is not a great time to launch a group program. I would continue to work with private clients and focus your efforts on building that email list. And if you're interested in growing an email list but you don't know where to start, you can check out my video called How to Grow an Email List Fast as a Health Coach.
The truth is there is no exact timeline formula when it comes to launching a group program. Me personally, I think it took me about two years before I launched my first group program. So it's going to be a little bit different for everyone, and that's okay. But if you follow this timeline, you will be on track and you're way more likely to have success when it comes the time for you to launch a group program.