Hiring the Right People for Your Small Business

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Today’s episode is all about outsourcing, hiring, and bringing people onto your team. We were never taught in school how to hire team members or how to bring people on and for a lot of us. You may not know when to hire, how to hire or how to manage a team. Lucky for you, that’s where we can help!

We realize that bring someone on can be super scary because you may think you can’t afford it, but if this is your business and this is your dream, then you don’t want to cheap out on having a dream team that can not only be an extension of you to run your business but also give you more time to grow your business! Your VA may be your biggest expense each month but it’s worth very penny.

For starters, it’s important to determine what actually needs to be done and the time it requires. If you need one off items checked off like graphic design, logo, or a blog post written then you likely can contract that work out through a freelancer (see our show notes below on some of the site we use for this). When it comes to ongoing responsibilities like answering emails, creating protocols, etc. you really want to vet these people to determine if they are right for your team. 

To determine what can be taken off your plate, ask yourself, "What do I lack skills in? What do I hate doing?” because you're not going to be good at everything and there will be someone out there that IS good at it and loves doing it. So write down the things that you actually should be doing in your business. Things that are going to be helping move your business forward. Things that help you make money. This will help you get a better idea of the type of person you need to hire or what jobs can be contracted out.

When you’re ready to hire, do your research. Ask for references, ask for examples of their work, ask A LOT of questions to determine if they are a good fit. Don’t be afraid to take your time to find the right person. As our business coach says “Hire slow, fire fast." You’ll likely know within a month if they will work out or not. And if they don’t work out then don’t waste your time trying to micromanage them. Because at the end of the day, whoever you hire needs to be devoted to your business as much as you are. Your business needs to be their baby as much as it is yours. You need to be open and honest with your team - tell them how you appreciate them and tell them if you’re pissed off. Similar to a relationship, if you don’t communicate how you feel then they will never know. And when you don’t see each other face to face every day in the office, that makes communication even more important.

Here are some of the tools we discussed in the episode:
Fiverr
Upwork
Evernote (listen our Biz Bomb about Evernote)
Hubstaff
Toggl
Loom
Slack


Connect with us on social:
instagram.com/360healthbizpodcast
facebook.com/360healthbizpodcast

@kperrynutrition
@sleeplikeaboss


TRANSCRIPT


Kendra Perry: Hey, what's up, 360 Health Biz people, listeners, friends? What's going on? My name is Kendra Perry and we have another amazing episode of the 360 Health Biz Podcast lined up for you today. I bet you guys can guess, but I'm hanging out with someone super special today. Who do you think it is? It's Christine, my business bestie and favorite person to hang out with at 8:00 in the morning, ever.

Christine: Who else? Seriously. Welcome, welcome everyone, to the podcast.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, and we got a great episode planned for you guys today, as always. I think all of our episodes are pretty awesome, but maybe this one will be especially enlightening for you guys. We're going to be talking about outsourcing, and hiring, and bringing people onto your team, which is really important. This is a really important part of running a business and it's something that most of us have no idea about, right? We never got taught in school how to hire team members and how to bring people on and for a lot of us, this is our first time business. We both have experience hiring teams and I've made a lot of mistakes. I think, Christine, you've done it a lot better than I have. So we're going to bring a lot of our own perspective to today's episode, so we'll dive into that. But first, we do want to read a very sexy review.

Christine: Oh, it's on our Facebook page. So much love, I could die. So Rainy Miller, thank you. We adore you. She basically posted, under the little video with Dr. Tim, you should check that out, Dr. Tim Jackson, "This is my all time favorite podcast, I never miss an episode. Kendra and Christine forever! Woooo!" We love you.

Kendra Perry: We love you.

Christine: That's the kind of stuff we live for, right?

Kendra Perry: Yes.

Christine: Because we always think we're talking to the void and actually knowing that someone is listening, it's just super amazing. So thank you so much for sharing.

Kendra Perry: I know, we're always like, "Is there anyone out there?" Then when we hear that you are out there and that you like our crazy, ridiculous banter, we get pretty excited.

Christine: [inaudible 00:01:57] everyone that someone is listening, but it's [crosstalk 00:02:00]. So thanks, guys for cherishing us, for listening to us, and giving us your time. Well, we'll try not to waste it. So [crosstalk 00:02:08], this is an awesome topic. I absolutely love talking about outsourcing. We have very different ways of doing this. So the first question that we would actually talk about is when is a good start for hiring? And I don't even remember when I hired my first person, but maybe we should talk about the different kinds of hiring in terms of freelancers and in terms of assistants. So I guess that's two different categories, right?

Kendra Perry: Yeah.

Christine: I would really distinguish between people who can do no-brainer stuff in terms of maybe creating graphics when you give them instructions or entering data or something like that and then people who really have you run your business.

Kendra Perry: Yup.

Christine: Yeah. I think most of us start with the first, you know?

Kendra Perry: Yeah. I think like, you know, you can just hire these people for these one-off things, right? If you're like, "Well, I suck at graphics. I'm going to bring people on to make a logo or do this or do that," and they're not really technically like team members, right? They're just people who come on to do these one-time jobs and then maybe you keep them on the back burner for later versus like a virtual assistant, which is someone who's going to be on your team. They help you run your business. You're probably going to be in contact with them every day. And if you don't do well with hiring your virtual assistant, it can really negatively affect your business versus, you know, a one-off contractor. If you have a bad experience, you're just like okay not going to hire that person again. I can hire someone else, right?

Christine: Yeah, and it's not as expensive, you know.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, it's true.

Christine: Different platforms that we use, the most famous one are going to be Fiverr because everything used to be for five bucks. I don't think there is any gig on Fiverr that's only five bucks anymore, actually.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, I would be surprised. I would be surprised. I don't use Fiverr, but I use Upwork, and I think those are the two that we both use. I don't know if there's other ones out there, but those are the primary ones that I use. I use Upwork all the time, but I don't actually remember ... I'm trying to think of when I first brought someone on. I think I had people doing those one-off kind of jobs for a while and then I brought my virtual assistant on probably after about two years, but I actually should've done it a lot earlier.

Christine: Yeah, I think it was the same for me. I learned how to use Canva and then it took me so much time and somebody told me about Fiverr and at the time, everything was still five bucks.

Kendra Perry: Yeah.

Christine: So I hired someone to do graphics for me and then at the very beginning of my journey, I entered a mastermind that was way too advanced for me actually at the time. But we all got an account at a company like in the Philippines and they worked with Sprint. They were doing everything. It kind of worked and it kind of didn't and I think that's also what you need to be careful for. Sometimes you have people who sit on the other end of the world and they are very affordable.

Christine: However, what I found was that you need to be super, super, super, super, super precise in what you want because otherwise, they don't quite follow. They also have a little bit of a different taste than we do. If you go to that kind of market, it's a little bit more blingy. It's just a different vibe. It's different graphic design culture. So I found that you wasted a lot of time going through alterations and changes and everything. So you really have to weigh out, okay, is this worth describing a hundred times or do I hire someone who might be closer and has the same graphics and the same taste but might be three times more expensive, which is still only 15 bucks.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, so true. Yeah, you definitely want to be choosy. And coming back around to at what point in the business should people actually be bringing people in, I think you should do it earlier on than maybe what most people are doing. I see a lot of coaches out there who are doing everything and they're overwhelmed. They're stressed out, like they feel frazzled, they feel unfocused, and a lot of their time is spent doing like admin stuff that anyone could be doing.

Kendra Perry: And we realized that it's scary to bring someone on because maybe, you know, you're only making a couple thousand or less than 5K a month in your business and you're like, "Well, I can't afford it," but you know, if this is your business and this is your dream, I don't think you should be cheap with it. And I think if you can open up 5 or 10 hours a week in your schedule to actually be working on things that you need to be doing, like marketing, and doing videos, and you know, whatever those things are on your business that only you should be doing, then you're going to save a lot of time, right?

Kendra Perry: And this was the mistake I made. You know, I don't think I hired someone until I was two years in and I was doing customer service. Like all my time was spent with the behind-the-scene stuff. I was sending out the intake, responding to emails, bringing in the clients. It was crazy. And when I brought someone on, even though it costs me money, it was like oh my god, I have literally 15 hours a week in my schedule and then my business, you know ... But honestly, you don't have to spend that much. Like my first virtual assistant was $7 an hour.

Christine: Yeah, I think it goes-

Kendra Perry: And she was good for what I needed.

Christine: Exactly. It goes all across the board and I think you really need to know what you need. If it's someone who's just copy pasting emails or who's just copying links and sends them to your clients, you can have someone who's maybe not super talented in terms of maybe not even the English language or the language that you work at or, you know, who is not great at taking initiative, it's fine. If you can just tell them this is process A, this is process B, you just copy paste this. That's totally fine then, perfect.

Kendra Perry: Yeah.

Christine: My first real ... I tried a couple of virtual assistants, but the first virtual assistant I had was 20 bucks an hour if I'm someone in the States and I really reached limits very quickly with her. Like she couldn't Canva, she was not able to do a table in Word documents. I was surprised because I saw that she was looking for a lot of other entrepreneurs and I was just like, "She can't do anything." She was really nice but not very smart and she couldn't take initiative. So that was more frustrating than anything else. So the assistant that I have now, it was just really lucky. It was her first ever assistant gig, so I got a pretty cheap. But what happened is that obviously, see some my business grow because I had time, as Kendra said, I could live, I could breathe, I could be creative, I could get clients, I could actually work. So my income rose exponentially and so within the first six months, she doubled her pricing you know, which is only fair because she's totally worth it. She's my biggest business expense per month, but I'd die without her.

Kendra Perry: She's amazing though. We love Tamara. Christina has a fantastic assistant.

Christine: Yeah.

Kendra Perry: So maybe let's address some of the things that you outsource. Like what are some of the tasks that people might be doing? Are people even thinking like is this something I can outsource? What are some of the things that people can get other people to do?

Christine: Pretty much everything apart from you working with your clients. I even have her doing the protocols. Like I'd send her a voice memo and tell her what the protocol should be and she knows how to fill it in and she sends it. So she does the onboarding process. An onboarding process, what does that mean? So I talk to someone, they decide to become a client and then what they get is a client intake form, a scheduling for their sessions, a contract, and a payment link. That's what she does. She's in my inbox so she sends it out to them.

Christine: Another thing that she does is when people contact me for more information, she will reply to them and send them a scheduling link to get a call with me. Then protocols, I just tell her what I want, she does that. Content creation, I literally create one video. She takes the video, she puts it on Facebook, she sends it over to Rev to get it transcribed, then she takes this transcript, she puts it into a blog post. She creates the graphics for the blog posts. She puts it on YouTube. She creates the thumbnail for that. She puts it on Pinterest, makes a picture for that, makes a picture for Twitter. She puts it in my social media feeder that sends it out to all of those platforms and schedules a couple of times a year.

Christine: She does all of that. She puts it on my podcast platform. All of those things I don't need to do. It's not like they take a huge amount of time, but I hate doing them. So to me it feels like I'm working 10 hours when it's just one hour because I don't enjoy doing it and she does it much better than I do. She also organizes everything. Like she organizes my graphics, she does my Instagram posts now, and that's what she is doing and we'll talk a little bit about how I told her later. So what else can they do? Kendra, what is, what are your assistants doing that I've forgotten?

Kendra Perry: Yeah. Well, I have like a social media manager. We have a manager for our podcast, right? I hire people to do SEO, graphics, logos. I've had people do transcriptions. Like now, I use Rev, but before I used to hire people to do transcriptions. I've hired people to do slides. I've hired people to write blog posts for my website. I've hired people for pretty much like every aspect. And I would say when you're thinking of like what's the first kind of piece of my business that I should break off and get someone to do, ask yourself, "What do I suck at? What am I bad at," because you're not going to be good at everything.

Kendra Perry: I would say graphics were never my strong suit. I think I've actually gotten a lot better at graphics over time with practice, but I'm not an artist. I used to create like the crappiest, '90s looking graphics ever. So for me to hire a graphic designer, that was really helpful. You know, I don't do good at backend web stuff, like web design and all the tech stuff. So I've hired people to go in and do the backend of my website. SEO I have no desire to do, so I've hired someone to do that. I would just say like, "What are you bad at and what are the things that anyone can do?" Like really sit down-

Christine: What is it you don't enjoy and they [crosstalk 00:12:04]? Like I just hired someone for 15 bucks on Fiverr to do hashtag research. I don't even know what to look for. They love that kind of stuff and spend time on Instagram analyzing all of this. So then they just send me a list of 200 hashtags that are related to my business that I can try out and see what is working, you know.

Kendra Perry: Oh, that's a good idea. I'm going to do that.

Christine: So I just have it in my list and now I'm trying out 5 to 10 each post for a week and then the same, and then I'll just see what creates engagement and what creates followers and stuff.

Kendra Perry: Yup.

Christine: Both Kendra and I have an Instagram agency. Kendra is really happy. My account, I don't know if they lose it. It's just not the same experience, which is interesting for you.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, it is interesting.

Christine: So we'll see. But I think those are things that we don't have the time or the energy or don't want to spend the energy on and I think that's crucial because sometimes you can do it. Of course we can, but it's really draining and not productive to your business at all.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, and it sucks to just feel like you're actually working. I would say like get a journal or use a note app like Evernote, we love Evernote, and just sit down and write down the things that you actually should be doing in your business. Things that are going to be helping move the business forward. Things that help you make money. Things that other people can't do like showing up on Facebook live or Instagram stories or creating packages or working with clients. And then write down the things that either you don't like doing, they drain you, you're not good at or things that anyone can do and start to look at that and start to see, well what's going to give me the most bang for my buck?

Kendra Perry: And for me, it was customer service. You know, I was getting so many emails coming in and then I felt like when I was also the customer service people, there was no boundaries between me and my clients. They just felt like they could access me anytime because I was the person doing everything. And so for me, bringing someone on was really worth it because it helped me create that clear separation between people who were coming in the door who I may or may not want to work with versus the people I was working with. And for me, I hate customer service. I hate emailing. You should see my email inbox right now. It's a mess. It's a disaster because I hate email. It's just not my thing. So for me, to bring someone on to do that, emotionally, it helped a lot.

Christine: Yeah. No, absolutely. And I think we all have those weaknesses and also the types of customers. I think depending on what you focus on, you might have a little bit more loving but needy customers. I saw it with my price changing that when I try to charge less, my customers a little bit more high-maintenance. Now that I charge a little more they're actually much easier to work with. It's really weird but it works that way. So that's definitely one thing. You need to figure out what you don't want to do and that you can outsource. If it doesn't have your face, if it doesn't have your voice, if it's not your core that it needs, then you can outsource it, basically.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, totally. So I know we both use different freelancer platforms. I use Upwork, you use Fiverr. There are other places you can post jobs. I posted jobs on Indeed. I posted jobs on LinkedIn. You can also reach out to your community, right? Like if you're in some Facebook groups from maybe like the nutrition school you went to or you're in various groups with other entrepreneurs you can ask for recommendations.

Christine: Yeah, and I've recently also had someone who figured out that she's using an intern from university. So she went to a university and she set out to, she went to that pin board thing and she was saying, "I'm looking for an intern in graphic design. I'm looking for an intern in project management," and she didn't even have to pay them but she wrote them a review afterwards from her company, which is actually something I consider doing at some point maybe, I don't know. I'm really happy with what I have, but it's just an idea that I have.

Christine: Now, I just want you to give you word of cautions for Upwork because I don't find it's the most user friendly platform in the world. I still don't understand how it works exactly, but you have different ways you can do like a gig and you pay them a fixed amount for that or you can do it hourly. I still don't understand how it works, but what happened to me is that I had a really dishonest person who basically just manually logged all of those hours, closed the gig, the money went from my PayPal account, and then they closed that Upwork account. So they were gone with my money.

Kendra Perry: Wow.

Christine: And I'd asked Upwork multiple times, I'd told them about it and then they were like, "Oh well, that person doesn't exist anymore. We can't help you." I never got that money back. It was over €300 so it was a lot of money. I was super pissed. So I'm never using it again. But you're probably smarter than I am.

Kendra Perry: Yeah.

Christine: [crosstalk 00:16:48] break on this.

Kendra Perry: Well, the thing about Upwork that's cool is you can really do your research on the person because they have a profile, they have a portfolio, but people also leave them reviews. So you can see what people have said about them, what rating. They get an overall rating on top. You can actually see how much money they've made on Upwork. There's people who have not made any money, they're brand new versus people who've made like $200,000 on Upwork. They have like a hundred different reviews of people saying anything. They have a rating. You can see how they've been active. You can get a lot of information about them, so you definitely want to do your research. That's a really crazy experience and that's super shitty. I can't believe you had that experience.

Kendra Perry: You can always get scammed, there's always a possibility, but I've done pretty well with Upwork. I mean, I've had some bad experiences and the freelancers I've hired haven't really delivered or I haven't been super ... I had one girl go MIA and I don't know, maybe she died like I was mad but then I was like, "This is bad," because she never got back to me again and I just got a refund and that was that. But the one thing I will say is when you do an hourly, you're paying people hourly, make sure you limit how many hours a week you want them to work because it'll default as 40 and you'll have freelancers who are like, "Oh, I can work 40 hours a week," and they'll just work 40 hours a week and then ...

Christine: And they do whatever like they just ... Yeah.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, and they may do the job. Like I had someone come on for SEO where I didn't limit it and for SEO you can do SEO forever. You can totally just do SEO forever and all of a sudden I was like, "Oh my God, I owe $300 this week," and I was like, "Oh crap, like 40 hours a week. That's insane." So you just want to make sure you limit you. Maybe if you want to bring someone ongoing for something like SEO, but maybe you just want them to work five hours a week.

Christine: Yeah, just sure you do that.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, just make sure you look into that. Do your research. You can chat with them. You can even hop on like a meeting with them and actually chat with them, which is something I've done a lot, so you can get a feel about people. It depends on the job that you are hiring out for. If it's just a quick like I need a logo or this, you maybe don't need to do that. But if you're bringing someone on for ongoing work, we do really recommend that you actually speak with them and you interview them. And that brings us to the next part of this, which is, you know, what kinds of questions should you be asking when you're bringing people into your business?

Christine: Yeah, I think there's different ways of hiring because obviously Tamara, who I've hired, it's different. I literally posted in a Facebook group that I needed someone and that person needed to speak English, German, and French, which is like a unicorn thing anyway. My clients speak English, German, and French in Luxembourg, so finding someone was just crazy. Here in Luxembourg, nobody's doing virtual assistant, it's just not a thing, and it was really coincidence that she was in that group that day and was just starting to look into it. So it was perfect match in heaven it and she's super, super smart.

Christine: But I think otherwise, I would definitely ask for references if they have some, who they worked for, and I would check up on that. Too often we just take them and say, "Okay, they have them, it's fine." Check up on it because afterwards, when I had my prior assistant, when I talked to someone who had, who I'd seen had worked with her and I assumed they were happy, when I talked to them they actually gave me the same feedback. So we make sure that you check up on that.

Kendra Perry: Yeah.

Christine: What else, Kendra?

Kendra Perry: I would say be super clear about your expectations, like what is this job going to entail, and I would also recommend coming up like what is the overall goal of this position? You know, with a virtual assistant, the bottom line is that people feel that we move people along quickly in their healing journey and they feel supported as we do it. If it falls within that guideline, then people can make decisions based on that kind of bottom line. You know, like obviously, my assistant, if we have people in our membership, for example, where we mess up and if we mess up and we're in the wrong and you want to give them a free month in the membership or two go for it. That's your decision. As long as they're happy, they feel supported and obviously, if it's something we screwed up on because that's going to happen. So I think you know, being super clear about what is the bottom line of the position. What does the position entail? How do you want that person to work with you? What is going to be the communication style?

Kendra Perry: And I think too just trying to ask questions where you can draw out of someone, like are they going to be able to make decisions on your own, because the worst thing about hiring someone or bringing someone on to your team is if you have to micromanage them because that literally is pointless. Like, why even have an assistant if you have to micromanage them? You want to bring people on who can make decisions based on the company goals and you want to bring people on who don't need to come to you for every single question. They take responsibility and pride in the role and they can actually roll with the punches. Obviously, they're going to need to come to you for questions, especially in the beginning, but they should be able to be pretty self-sufficient and that's really important because if you're micromanaging then there's no point in having an assistant.

Christine: Totally, and it's a job. It's a real job. It's not just I am bored, I just want to do something. It's a real, real job. Like it's having someone in your room that needs to do the business. And I think for Tamara, I gave her access to my Dropbox folder and to my "system" and she was like, "Would you mind if I tidy this up or you?" I was like, "Oh my god, hallelujah. Go for it." I hate doing it. I don't organize. My brain doesn't work that way. So I always say that she's my right brain half really and just seeing that she took that initiative ... And you can test them on that like literally. You can do that little old test in that way. I didn't, I promise. It was just I am a mess.

Christine: So those things kind of initiative were amazing, you know? It's just fab. The other thing is so you clear boundaries, absolutely, when they get paid, what they get paid for, how they log their time. There's different platforms that you can use for that too. One that I used was Hubstaff. The way that it does, it logs in. They have to basically start logging and it takes screenshots every few seconds of they're ...

Kendra Perry: Oh, that's cool.

Christine: ... So that you can actually monitor it if you want to. So if you start to suspect that they are taking the pairs and just log time where they do anything, you could go back and actually look at their screen and see what they were doing. So that's a little bit more controlling. Kendra and I now both use Toggl, which is basically you can see in graphics what they've been working on and when they've been working on everything, so that's been pretty helpful. And then what we also used is or what I loved using with Tamara and also showed her initiative was that when she started, I just discovered Loom, L-O-O-M. It's an extension on chrome and it allows you to basically record your screen.

Christine: So when I hired her I was still doing everything by myself so I would just record myself doing it, she would watch the video and then she could do it. And what she did out of her own geniusness was to actually create like a log book. She would take notes down, which now, if I ever need another assistant, she can just pass down and that assistant will then just look at her notes and they will know the onboarding process. They will know where to look for what and she's much more organized than I am, so she did that on her own. But I think-

Kendra Perry: That's amazing though. That is so, so, so important and this is something that I can't stress enough. If your assistant isn't creating some sort of manual or log book or whatever it is, then you're going to be screwed when they leave. I've made a lot of mistakes and this is what happened to me. My first assistant, I was like, "Hey, I need you to update the manual. Update the manual anytime we change anything," because you're always going to be changing procedures and if you have a good VA, they might actually change some things to optimize them and make them better. But if they're not logging that and keeping track of the changes that you make, when you bring someone else on, you're not even going to know how to train them. You have no idea what's going on. Even though I kept telling my original assistant to do that, she didn't do it and when I brought someone new on it was literally a fucking disaster and then it turned into another disaster. I had a really bad experience hiring someone [crosstalk 00:25:20].

Christine: Yeah. Like someone.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, it was bad, but honestly, I learned so much from it, but the mistakes that I made is I wasn't clear about my expectations. I went against my intuition. My intuition was telling me something was off, but I'd made the decision ahead of time when I found this person's Instagram and I was like, "Oh, they're a virtual assistant agency for health coaches. This is so amazing. They can do everything," and I got really excited. But the interview I had with her was off. She was late and then it was off and I should have taken note of that. But at that point, I was so overwhelmed with my current assistant and how much micromanaging I was doing that I just sort of like made this decision out of desperation, which was a mistake.

Kendra Perry: The other thing that I made the mistake on is I adapted to their communication systems and not the other way around. You need to set expectations with how you want to communicate with your people. And this agency, they were like, "Oh, we don't use Slack. We don't use email. We only use Voxer." So if you guys are familiar with Voxer, it's just a voice messaging app. It has its place, but that can't be the only way you communicate with people because it's not searchable. It's not searchable and ...

Christine: And it deletes conversation after a while.

Kendra Perry: It deletes conversation and you also ramble. I don't care who you are, but you ramble on voice message and I don't have time to listen to a three-minute voice message when you could just send me a quick message on Slack. So the miscommunication in that situation was literally a disaster. I would be like, "I think I already told her how to do this," and I'd be looking through these Voxer messages and nothing was getting done. If I gave her a hundred balls, she'd drop 99. I was like, "How is this your business?" It was so frustrating. Clients were upset. Even your assistant, Tamara, was like, "What's up with Kendra's assistant?"

Christine: I know. Nothing got done. Everything got fucked up. Nothing was done.

Kendra Perry: I know.

Christine: It was really bad for a while there.

Kendra Perry: It was really, really bad, yeah.

Christine: And it's not just you. I had another coach that I worked with and her assistant was a mess. Calls were not scheduled or I had it scheduled but she didn't and it was all kinds of things and she was like, "I'm sorry, it's my assistant," and she went through a couple of as well. But it really doesn't leave a good impression if these fuck-ups happen. It really, really doesn't, especially if you had a certain price point. It doesn't matter which price point, it never makes a good impression. So really they need to take this very much on heart and I think we decided that we're never going to hire someone else again without giving them like a trial period.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, yeah. Like you'll know within a month if it's going to be a fit. Our business coach, me and Christine share business coach, and she says, "Hire slow, fire fast." Take your time hiring someone, bringing someone on, interview them, vet their references. Really check them out, ask them lots of questions, give them a trial period. But if it's not working, then get rid of them. And maybe you'll know within a month. In about three months, that's how long it'll typically take for them to get super dialed in the position as a virtual assistant, but you'll know pretty quickly if it's working out or not. And make sure that they are following the expectations that you put forward, you know. I have two assistants now who are amazing. I'm in such a good place for assistants now.

Kendra Perry: That situation really helped me learn a lot, but you know, with my communication now it's like we communicate through Slack. That's how it goes. We only communicate through Slack. I don't want you to send me any emails and if we use Voxer, which can be helpful, you know, if you have a long message, you don't want to type it all out, you can use Voxer. But basically, I have people tag me in Slack and be like, "I'm sending you a Voxer message about this topic." They write the topic in Voxer and then they do the message so I can always go back and check it so that we know what each message is about and that I know that someone has Voxered me about a certain situation because yeah, like I said, it's not searchable. It's like a disaster to just use Voxer to communicate.

Christine: No. It's not meant for that. I think it's super unprofessional. I think it's great for different things, but as soon as it's getting a little bit complicated, you need to have it written down. You need to have a trace of it. And I use WhatsApp and mainly Voxer with Tamara, actually, but we've got everything so dialed down like we rarely use email anymore because she just knows exactly way about. So I just send her an email. Did you email that person back? Can you do this and this and this? Because we did the whole onboarding process and my process hasn't changed at all [crosstalk 00:29:40], so yeah.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, I've changed my process like 50 million times. I'm disorganized. This is why I need a VA.

Christine: Well, you changed businesses as well.

Kendra Perry: That is true.

Christine: I mean, you have so many more products than I do. You have a lot of different formats that I don't know. So it's [crosstalk 00:29:59] more complicated structure.

Kendra Perry: I know. I'm currently editing it down. I have too many offers. That's something we should talk about in a future episode is like-

Christine: We should. We should.

Kendra Perry: You know, like really nailing down what your offers are because it's great, I have all these offers and I mean, I have two businesses going right now, which one is slowly going to shut down, but it's just funny because it's like great, I have all these income streams. There's always money coming in, but it's just like I am literally a [crosstalk 00:30:23] mess every single day, so you just don't want to have that many offers. But anyways, I would say you know, you can give people incentive when you start working with. You can say like, "Hey, I'm going to pay you this much for the first three months and if it works out, if I determine that you're a good fit for the position, I'll increase your wage," or I know that our business coach after I think three months she'll turn them into an employee from a contractor, which gives them like benefits and whatever.

Kendra Perry: Obviously, it's going to be different depending on where you run your business. Like in Canada, for me as a corporation, it doesn't make sense for me to have employees, so that's not going to be something that I offer. I stick with contractors. But maybe somewhere in the States or other countries, maybe it's more a benefit to you to have employees versus contractors. But try to make there some sort of incentive for people to really try, you know. It's like, "Okay, I'm going to start paying you 15 bucks an hour, but if after three months it's going really well, I'll pay you 20," so they're like, "Okay." You know, I think it's a good incentive.

Christine: And plus, the more time you have, the more your business is going to get better. Like the more time you have to actually make money and your assistant would see it, you would see it, and then it's just obvious that pay is going to rise and my goal and in the end is to have Tamara be a part of the business, actually. At some point, I want her to have, I don't know how I'm going to do it, with shares or I don't know. No clue on how to do it. But she's been so important to the development of the business that I really want her to be a part of it, you know? So yeah, I'm thinking. But I think that's what works. Like it needs to be their baby just as much as it is yours and tell them how you appreciate them. Like she's got so many emails where I'm like, "Oh my god, I love you," because I really do. She's genius. I love her so much. And you need to tell them that too. I think it's just an honest thing and if you're pissed off, you tell them too.

Kendra Perry: Yup Yeah, I think a really good topic for us to do episode on would be leadership, right, because I think leadership skills are something that we don't necessarily come into this world having and as people who maybe never, you know, had this dream to start a business, maybe it just happened I think, which is what happens with a lot of health coaches. They just are like, "I want to learn to help myself and help my family," and then they end up taking on clients and don't even realize that they've just started a business. So I think, you know, leadership is a really interesting topic and I think if you can be a good leader, you can have a good team. I'm someone who's had a lot of jobs and I've seen a lot of bad leaders and I see what bad leadership, how negatively it can damage a business. So that might be something we talk about in the future.

Christine: Yeah, leadership and boundaries. Those both go together, I believe.

Kendra Perry: Oh yes, yes, yes.

Christine: All right.

Kendra Perry: What else do we have to talk about today?

Christine: Well, we've been talking for nearly an hour.

Kendra Perry: Have we? Oh my gosh.

Christine: Yeah.

Kendra Perry: We're good at that.

Christine: We're very good at that. But it's a good topic. I mean, hire rather earlier than too late.

Kendra Perry: Mm-hmm (affirmative),

Christine: Don't downsize yourself. Don't think, "I'm not ready yet." No. If you're overwhelmed, if you do things that you shouldn't be doing and you're tired, hire someone. Please, please, please.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, and it's better to hire earlier because if you hire when you're frantic, you're like, "Oh my god, I'm so overwhelmed. Like I'm dropping all the balls, I need to bring someone in," then you might make a bad decision, which is what happened to me. I did this twice. You know, I brought people in when I was in desperation mode and when really I should've been doing these things a lot earlier and as a result, I ended up training people for like four months because once I got rid of the agency I brought on two new assistants who were fantastic, but I was literally in training mode. It was like the most stressful four months in business that I've had in five years.

Christine: Oh yeah, I can testify to that.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, I was like, "Aah! Christine, what do I do?"

Christine: I can relate just to some extent but not really because I'm like just sailing [inaudible 00:34:14]. But let us know if you're looking for an assistant and if you want some tips or some references from us.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, you can always send us an email, hello@360healthbizpodcast.com, or shoot us a DM on Instagram.

Christine: Yes. I love Instagram.

Kendra Perry: That's where we like to hang out. We love Instagram.

Christine: We do. Go in and check out our story. We have one right now. We have one always. We have stories, but check us out.

Kendra Perry: We're pretty good with stories.

Christine: We're very good with stories.

Kendra Perry: Yeah.

Christine: Yeah.

Kendra Perry: Another thing regards to Instagram, if you liked this episode, what we love to know is what you've learned from it. So screenshot this episode, share it to your stories. Make sure to mention 360 Health Biz Podcast and tell us what your biggest take homes were because that helps us know that you like our content and that you like us, and then we'll share it to our stories.

Christine: We will and we absolutely adore all of you. Please give us feedback and yeah, I think that's it for today. And then we'll talk to you in two weeks.

Kendra Perry: Sounds good.

Christine: All right. Oh, it's me recording that one. Okay. So we'll see you in two weeks and leave us a review. We love you a lot. Bye.

Kendra Perry: Bye, guys.