All Posts by Kendra Perry

Why Your Personal Brand is Your #1 Marketing Tool

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Personal branding is THE most important thing in 2019 when it comes to marketing yourself and your business. While brand colours and fonts are important, no one connects with a logo, they want to connect with YOU as a human being and as a practitioner or health coach.

If you are worried that people won’t like you…won’t like that post you put up, then you need to work on yourself before you work on your business. Here’s why. We ALL have triggers in our businesses. Our last episode with Lori Kennedy talked all about this and we talk about it again today…your business WILL bring out insecurities that you may or may not realize you have. As Kendra puts it, she sometimes feels like  she’s “still that girl in high school who's wondering if anyone's going to show up to my party”. So you need to make sure you have your support team to support you, so you can support others.

But let’s get back to personal brand. When you show up authentically, fearlessly, genuinely, and honestly….ladies and gentlemen, you have your brand. But don’t expect it to happen overnight. And if you’re just starting out, don’t expect it to stay the same. Often time our clients can actually shift our brand and our niche! It's not like you're just going to listen to this episode and know exactly what to do. It's going to be a work in process. You're going to make some mistakes. You're going to have to switch things and change things and revamp things. It's always a work in progress, but in the end just don't try to be who you think you should be, just be you. Just be who you are, exactly how you would in everyday life.

So how can you make your brand you? Kendra and Christine offer some great tips in today’s episode including how to make your Instagram more searchable, which platforms you should be on, ways to discover what your brand is (hint JOURNALLING!) and if you decide you can’t do it yourself and need a brand coach – what to look for in a brand coach.

 Oh, and don’t give a fuck what anyone else is doing. We like to say fuck…it’s part of our brand.

PEOPLE DISCUSSED:
Jamie Palmer episode
Tapping Into Wealth, by Margaret Lynch
Heather Jones, EFT practitioner
Amber Dugger, financial coach​
Meryl Kreigsman
Doctor Drema Dial, psychologist

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@kperrynutrition
@sleeplikeaboss

TRANSCRIPT


Kendra Perry: Yo yo. What's up? 360 Health Biz [inaudible 00:00:04]. I'm trying to channel Brandon [Boomer 00:00:07], because he's always like "What's up holistic [inaudible 00:00:09] [savage tribe 00:00:09]?" What's up every one! Welcome to another episode of the 360 Health Biz Podcast. I am your first host, Kendra Perry, and I am joined by Christine Hansen who, we actually haven't hung out in a while, Christine.

Christine: I know its been like, I texted you, so it's like, "I miss you. It's been too long."

Kendra Perry: Yeah, we haven't recorded an episode in a while so we're super excited to hang out with you guys today. And we're talking about a topic that is so important. It's so, so important. And a lot of health coaches don't get it, right?

Christine: To be blunt, it's like duh, but no ... it's very true. And I think that Kendra and I both didn't get it for a long time.

Kendra Perry: Oh yeah. I only really got it like a year ago, I swear.

Christine: I agree.

Kendra Perry: It's something that's kind of like ... it's not super tangible, you have to kind of really think about it and kind of know what you're doing. But we're going to be talking about branding and personal branding. And the reason why we want to talk about this is because maybe in 2017 this was less important. Maybe in 2018 it was important but not the primary thing, but in 2019, it is like the [inaudible 00:01:16], you have to be successful. You need to have a personal brand. And in order to do that you actually have to know what that is.

Christine: Totally. So we're going to talk about that. We're going to give examples about how you get there, what to watch out for. Also maybe if you hire someone, you know what you should look out for. But first, we want to shout out a very special thank you to [Kimmy Classon 00:01:38], because she wrote us a five star review on iTunes. We love you.

Kendra Perry: We love you.

Christine: So here's what she's saying. "I'm not even a health coach and I love this podcast." Like this seriously, just the [inaudible 00:01:51] is just like makes my heart sick. "I use all the actionable steps in my business and they worked magic and momentum in my mission. I feel empowered that I too can build my biz of my dreams when I listen to these ladies and their amazing guests. So helpful. Thank you."

Kendra Perry: Thank you Kimmy. And I actually know Kimmy, and she's a sustainability coach. So she's done some really cool work with sustainability and climate change so follow her on Instagram.

Christine: I tip my invisible hat to you Kimmy. Like seriously. Amazing business. We're super happy that we can help. And actually, I'm going to drop a little teaser here because Kendra and I, we're working on something where we might be able to help you even a lot more in the future. So stay tuned. Just throwing that out there.

Kendra Perry: Just dropping the seeds, dropping the seed, shameless plug, shameless plug.

Christine: Totally. There you go, that's psychology, baby. Listen to that.

Kendra Perry: Totally.

Christine: Yes, branding. So I think we have to talk a little bit about what branding used to be. So we are the same age pretty much. And I think branding for a long time used to be the logo of MTV or Nike or McDonald's.

Kendra Perry: Like the colors, the font, you know. Visual, the visual.

Christine: Exactly. And the same colors or the same font all the time. And it was pretty much the graphic, I would say.

Kendra Perry: The graphic was really, really important. The logo was really important. And I mean I stressed so much about my logo when I first [inaudible 00:03:32], and now I actually haven't updated my logo like the whole time I've had my business. I need to update it but it doesn't really matter that much, so I just don't care.

Christine: Exactly. Exactly. So we will focus, obviously if you have a product it's still a little bit different. But we will talk about us as people, as service providers, where your brand is something completely different. And please keep all of this in mind when you're also looking to hire something with your branding, because there are people who are trained in this, but there's also people who are used to work with companies, or are just a little bit outdated frankly, who will get it wrong.

Christine: Yes. Just a couple pointers on what to look out for. So as Kendra said, we were at this social media marketing conference, and even before we noticed how branding is completely different. It doesn't have to do with your font, in a way. It does, but the most important piece of the puzzle is actually yourself. And that makes a lot of people squeal inside. It's like, "Oh no I don't want to. But I'm not special. I'm not cool. I'm not busy." Or whatever bullshit is in your head. And I think we're going to give you tangible action steps this episode. But I think the word that needs to go with branding, if you have your business and are selling yourself, and I want you to say that out loud actually, "I am selling myself." Without having the image of Pretty Woman and being a prostitute in your head.

Christine: Because a lot of time when we say this, "I'm selling myself." It's a connotation we just have, and it's bullshit. So I think the word that goes hand in hand with branding is personal development in a way, because you need to be you and you need to be authentic you. So I think the easiest is if Kendra and I are talking a little bit about our steps, so Kendra why don't you start a little bit with you're really, really happy with your brand right now, and it's totally is, so how did you get there?

Kendra Perry: Yeah, well I think ... well first of all was realizing that what people want these days, and we talked about this a little bit over the past few episodes that we recorded, people, they want to connect with you. We're in an era where social media is like a main way that we connect with people and it can feel really impersonal. So I think what people really are looking for is real human connection. They want to feel like they know you and that maybe they can be friends with you. And they want to feel like I could hang out with this chick. Like I really like her. She could be in my friend group and that would be awesome. And we would just hang and it would be cool.

Kendra Perry: And so I think for me the first thing was realizing that it's less about a brand so much as it is about a personal brand. You mentioned that with personal development, if you were a coach, and if you're listening to this podcast, you're probably a coach of some kind, whether it's a health coach or a fitness pro, whatever is is you're doing. You are your brand. So for me it was realizing that my brand is me, and I needed to stop faking what I thought people wanted to see me as, and be quote, unquote, "professional", and just be myself. And so that meant sharing more about me. So if you guys follow me you probably know that I'm really into the mountains and the outdoors, and I love adrenaline sports, right? So-

Christine: And crashing your bike, it's like [crosstalk 00:06:56]

Kendra Perry: Totally. Crashing my bike and wrecking my body. That's my thing, right? And so it was about figuring out how to infuse the things that are really important to me, my core values, which is being in nature, being in the mountains and pushing myself with sports, into my brand message and into what I'm actually doing with people. So it was taking a step back from just recording videos, with make up on, and looking all professional, and recording videos in my bike jersey. Or as I'm going for a walk or on the mountain bike trail, or whatever it is, and actually bringing that into what I do. So I think for me, it was just realizing that your brand is who you are.

Christine: I agree.

Kendra Perry: As a core human being. And what you stand for and your values. And it's not easy. It's not like you're just like, "This is me. This is what I stand for and I'm going to start combining my brand and who I am." It's a process, it takes time, and it takes a lot of deep personal work. Which I think comes back around to the personal development thing you were talking about Christine, right?

Christine: Yeah, and I think if both of us look at our history. I'm on website number four most likely. I love my website now but it's because I've changed it because I've grown. And it's fine. It took me three years to figure out who I am and what I want to do. I can confidently now say that I'm totally me and I love it, but it's not always been that great. So if you are a newbie coach, here's a little advice with love. Don't spend all your budget on a branding person yet. I would actually advertise you to keep it a little bit more generic in terms of clean and simple, rather than going all in, thinking you know who you are and thinking you know what your clients want and what resonates with them. Because I guarantee you, you will change again. And I'd rather use that budget on a coach or an energy worker, or whatever you are into, to help you figure out what makes you comfortable saying that sentence, "I am selling myself." Because if that doesn't feel comfortable to you, you have work to do. Until you get there, I'd budget more into that journey than necessarily the branding.

Kendra Perry: Yeah I completely agree, because the thing is you probably are going to change your niche. The niche that you start with, I would say more than likely you're going to change it at some point, right?

Christine: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kendra Perry: You've changed your niche once or twice. I've changed it like four times. And I think it's just because you're going to think, "Oh I really want to talk about this topic." You're going to get out there, and maybe you're going to get sick of talking about it, or maybe your interests are going to take you elsewhere. Or maybe the people who are following you are going to take you elsewhere, and that's okay. So I do think go light, pick a few colors and fonts, that's cool, whatever. And then just actually sit down and journal. Actually sit down and think about who you really are.

Kendra Perry: When you sit down ... and I'd like to give the person who I heard this from credit, but I can't remember where I heard this, but it's really good. It's like your brand is what people say about you when you're not around.

Christine: Oh yeah.

Kendra Perry: Isn't that good?

Christine: That's good. It's very good.

Kendra Perry: Because how would you describe me? Oh she's like crazy and off the cuff, and outgoing, and outdoorsy. It's my personality, right? It's how people would describe me. So think about what people would say. And if you don't know maybe you should ask your friends and family.

Christine: Mm-hmm (affirmative). And I would also be ... whatever triggers you, whatever makes you feel uncomfortable, that's the point you need to investigate. You need to figure out why. Is it actually you or is it someone else's voice in your head. Until you understand who you are and what is actually your authentic issue, you will not be confident enough, and authentic enough. Because authenticity cannot be faked. Having said that, I have kind of a double split persona in a way. So I like different things. I like to be completely glam. I am now, also really like to be sexy, but I also really like to hang out with sneakers and a et-shirt. And I sometimes make it a point to go to these networking points where you have suit guys and ladies in their pant suits and stuff, and I just show up in trousers and sneakers because I'm like screw all of you, I can do whatever I want.

Christine: So I have this double persona, but the way that I did it was, okay, this type of persona is great for my website in terms of the first impression, also because I charge a certain price point. But when I'm on video or when I do my Instagram stories, I'm very, very basic and down to Earth. And if you go to my Instagram you'll also see that my photo shoots are like that. Some are a little bit more posh and some are just with sneakers and a et-shirt and jeans. So they're all part of me, but I'm having to say it's always polished most of the time, but if you do charge a certain price point, you also, you don't have to, but it can help to appear in a certain way. Again, it's authentic to you though. I love my Louboutins. I Have to say I never wear them if I have to wear them for more than 10 minutes walking, but I look pretty damn hot when I do wear them. So it's like this double thing. But you need to own every piece of you. And I think, depending on what your business is, you push some of it forward for your website, but you need to be comfortable with it.

Christine: If you never wear shoes like that because you're uncomfortable or because you don't like the people who wear those shoes or whatever is coming with it, don't do it. Really, really don't do it. People smell it out. And I think in the end you need to remember that people will get to know you. They will buy your service and they will get to know you. And if it doesn't coincide, they will be disappointed. And damn, that's also how we have our dream clients because they connect with the authentic us. It's a take it or leave it thing. If you don't like the way we are, you know what you get, basically. We don't sell anything that's not authentic. And I think that's how you get the raving testimonials afterwards because people actually know you. And you didn't promise anything that didn't happen. And you didn't sell yourself as someone who you're not. So I think that's super, super important to understand.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, I think it's a really good point. I was speaking with a coach the other day and she was getting frustrated with social media, and trying to show up as who she thought she should be, right? Which was what we were talking about in the beginning. And she's someone who has a big ranch, and she has horses. And I mean all her days are spent outside with the horses. And I was like, you need to do your videos in the field with your horses. And she's like, actually I did a video in her horse stall where she was picking up horse poop and talking about how the poop ... it's annoying to pick up, but it means her horses are healthy and stuff like that. And kind of weaving it into health and whatever. And she was like, "I felt really fired up in that video." I'm like, "Yeah. Because you're in your element." Right?

Christine: Exactly.

Kendra Perry: Just like Christine said, if you're not a fancy person, then don't do a photo shoot wearing all this makeup and a fancy dress.

Christine: No. Oh it looks horrible.

Kendra Perry: My photo shoots are action sports stuff. Me in casual wear. Sometimes I just have selfies with no make up on because half the time I'm in the forest biking and my make up is off my face. It's streaming down the side of my face because I just did a podcast and now I'm going biking and I'm sweating like a pig, right?

Kendra Perry: So I think it's about figuring out who you are, but showing that on your social media and on your website. People should really feel like, like Christine says, that it lines up. When they meet you in person you should be the same person. And people are going to feel like they know you and when they actually meet you they want to be like, "Oh wow. She's just like she is online."

Christine: Exactly. And it's so funny because I see people on Zoom, when I have my first sessions with them. And they're like, "Oh you actually look like you do in your photos. You look the same way." And I'm like, yes. Because they like, "Well, I've people when I saw them on their website and then I saw them on video and it's completely crazy."

Kendra Perry: Yeah, totally.

Christine: Hang on, just one second. It's raining and one of my windows closed automatically and the other one hasn't. So now I'm wondering if they all close automatically. Okay, it's fine, sorry.

Kendra Perry: Random, side note there.

Christine: Sorry, sorry. I just wouldn't want it to [inaudible 00:15:34] anything, but fine. Yes. So, no, I think that's really important. And that's also why I really want to say, if you want to work with a branding coach, which I think, at some point, you should do. Someone who writes the copy and someone who understands fonts, who just knows all of them, and who can tell you immediately this corresponds your persona. Here's a really important thing to keep in mind. First of all they need to understand what you do. Because yesterday I talked to someone, and she's doing, she's a licensed psychiatrist, but she's also working with meditation and energy work. When she was working with a branding coach, they had no idea what she was actually doing. And she was like, "Okay how is she supposed to ..." Sorry cat ...

Kendra Perry: Aww cute.

Christine: "How is she supposed to write or to represent me if she doesn't even know what I do?" So I think that's a big, red flag right there.

Christine: The other thing is that if, as soon as the coach or consultant, tries to fit you into a box, run for the hills. It's just not what they should do. They should listen and then they should work and design something upon it. They should not say, okay, I think you should be this and this and this, because this and this and this sells. Bullshit. I call bullshit.

Kendra Perry: I worked with a coach who kind of did something like that. And really pushed me into talking about weight loss. And I'm sorry but I hate weight loss. It's not ... I mean I don't feel like I'm someone who's like ... I'm fit but I don't have this ripped body, and I just hate the before and after photos of [crosstalk 00:17:17]

Christine: Yeah.

Kendra Perry: I feel like you attract, not always, but depending on how you position yourself, but you often attract people who want to just lose weight, and they don't care about their health. And that's something I'm interested in. But she really kind of pushed me into that space, and then when I launched what I had to launch, it totally flopped. And I think it was because I was super out of alignment with what I actually was doing. And I was like, I don't even want to do this. What am I doing? So you do have to be wary of that. And I think when you think about ... you obviously need to know ... we talk so much about knowing who your ideal client is and figuring out who you're talking to. That's a big part of brand building. You need to be specific, you need to know who you're trying to attract.

Kendra Perry: But you also want to know how do you want people to feel when they come into contact with your business. Like with Christine, if I'm an entrepreneur, a CEO, I might get that luxury, high end feel, and maybe that's what you want people to feel. And when people come to my business, they might feel inspired to go climb a mountain or they feel like, get this nature-y feel. You want them to have a feeling about your business, and that's ...

Christine: Great.

Kendra Perry: That's great.

Christine: No, I totally agree. I agree. And it's also, yes, for me I think if you're authentic, you will automatically attract the right clients. Like some will just Google, they find your website, and they schedule a call with you and they have no clue what you actually do. But I find the hardcore fans, usually they take some time, they stalk you for a while, and then they get in touch. And you have this perfect client-coach, expert, whatever dynamic. And they are ready then to spend money with you because they trust you, because you never lie, and because you're just authentic. And if you screw up, you screw up, and it's fine. And they know that it's human and that's it.

Christine: And I personally, I also, it's really funny because I worked with someone, and I admire her still, she's amazing. But in the beginning, three years ago, her branding was very subtle, and she was no make up or just tiny bits, and it was just, I loved it. Because at the time, I don't know if you remember, everyone had this gold written font and it was just about boss babe and personal glam, six figure, seven figures. There was gold everywhere and everyone was wearing these business dresses and big hair on the beach, that kind of thing. And she was just ... she had a black dress, she was very sober, and it was all about what she was saying. Super intelligent thing. I loved it because she was different because that's the way she was.

Christine: Now she has one of these photographers that I know shooting a lot of people who are pretty in in the industry right now, and they all look the same. And it's all over the top glitz and glam. And it's like everyone is one a unicorn boat, float thing. And I'm just like, I cannot have it with the graffiti in the background. Everyone looks the same now and it's not high end. It's just like an overblown ego. It's not the same. Development, becoming more confident, does not mean that your ego is taking over. I think that's also important to keep in mind.

Kendra Perry: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's really important to keep in mind. You really want to be true to yourself. It's not the easiest thing to do but it's easier in the long run because in the long run you're just yourself. You're not trying to develop this persona of someone who you aren't. I'm sure we've all met people in our life who we felt were fake. And we felt like they were hiding something or they weren't being their true selves, and something was off. And we didn't want to hang out with those people. So you don't want to be that person to your audience, right?

Kendra Perry: And I have a little list here because I think journaling can be really helpful. I think you can sit down and really consider this, but I have some questions you can ask yourself when you're journaling. And the first one is what are you unique qualities and strengths? We all have them, we all have unique parts about our personalities. We all have unique strengths. And if that's a hard question for you to answer, like I said, talk to your friends and family. Sit down with your bestie. They might help you see a side of you that maybe is less obvious to yourself.

Kendra Perry: What are five words that your friends would use to describe you? Again, you can talk to your friends, right? What are your core values? What do you stand for in your business? How do people benefit from working with you? And how do you want people to feel after they come into contact with your business?

Kendra Perry: Really, really think about this. Do some journaling. And you might have some big aha moments. Because the truth is we all are unique, individual people. And these days people don't want the cookie cutter approach. They don't want some monotone practitioner in front of a camera being super professional, with no emotion and no personality. People are not going to watch that video.

Kendra Perry: If you're someone who likes to crack inappropriate jokes, crack inappropriate jokes. If you like to say fuck, say fuck. I say it all the time and it's honestly, it can be very polarizing. I mean people hate me for it. I get people ... it's the most common thing that people write to me and tell me to watch my mouth and I have a dirty mouth. But I don't care. If they hung out with me in person they would probably be like, "This girl swears to much and I don't want to hang out with her." Whatever, right? It's okay. There's someone else out there for them. It's not me and it doesn't need to be.

Christine: Perfect. I totally agree.

Kendra Perry: We like to say fuck.

Christine: A lot. And it's a great thing. I don't know why people are so offended. It's super great. Awesome.

Christine: But there was something else I wanted to say and it slipped my mind so let's continue because I-

Kendra Perry: Okay. Well I wanted to talk a little bit about Instagram because we really love Instagram right now. And honestly, in terms of a social media platform I do think it's probably one of the best ones to build a personal brand. It's very visual. There's a lot of ways you can share content. You can post in your feed, you can do Instagram stories, you can do IGTV, you can do Instagram live. Literally, there's four different ways to interact on Instagram, and they're all different ways to show your personalities. But I have some crazy pet peeves when it comes to Instagram. And I wanted to just talk about this quickly.

Kendra Perry: So you can do an experiment. Click on the people who you're following or people who are following you. And scroll down and look at the accounts that you're most likely to want to click into and learn more about. I almost guarantee it's not someone who's using a logo as their image, their profile picture. When I see a logo, I don't want to click into that at all. There's nothing. There's no human connection. I have no connection to a graphic or a logo. But when I see a cool picture of someone, I'm like, "Ooo, what does that chick do? Oh what does that dude do?" So I think-

Christine: Exactly. I mean the exception to the rule is obviously if you have a product or if you are like Mont Blanc of something like that, sure, use your logo. But let's talk about us people. Don't use your logo. Who cares?

Kendra Perry: Nobody cares about your logo and there's no connection there. Even if our Instagram handle or your business name is not your name, you are still your brand. So you have to have a photo there.

Kendra Perry: And then next of all your name, if your handle is like "climbtothetopwellness", I don't know, that's a weird business.

Christine: Or "sleeplikeabus".

Kendra Perry: Yeah, or "sleeplikeabus". You are still your brand so your name has to be somewhere in your bio. Because just think of it this way, imagine you have a logo and your names not in your bio. And then you DM somebody, like an ideal client to try to connect. They're going to be like ...

Christine: Who's that?

Kendra Perry: They're not going to follow you. You're not even a human.

Kendra Perry: And then the other thing is maybe I scroll down your feed and you don't even show up anywhere on your feed. There's no photos of you.

Christine: I hate that. I cannot stand it. These meme things, where people only put their memes of things. No. I would never hire you. I don't know who you are. I don't see you. I only see memes. I only see quotes, but who are you? It just tells me that your self-confidence is down the toilet, why would I want to learn from you? Sorry.

Kendra Perry: Yeah. Like you, honestly, I think like every second photo ...

Christine: It is. It's my strategy.

Kendra Perry: [crosstalk 00:25:42] I see you. And I mean it actually makes your Instagram look really visual, when you just do like photo of you, and then maybe you can do your quote or your meme, something with like white space.

Christine: Exactly. Or whatever.

Kendra Perry: You could literally show up everyday on your feed. And I know it feels very narcissistic, but it's actually what people want from you. Those photos are going to do better, so from an Instagram perspective, you need to make it clear who you are. People need to go to your thing and see your photo and see your name. And then obviously see what they do, but I feel like I'm like a broken record. I've talked about this so much and I just see it so much. Like people who [crosstalk 00:26:18] health coaching, advice and marketing. And I'm just like, oh my god, I go on your profile [crosstalk 00:26:26] there, your photo's not there. You just have a list of all the schools you went to and your certifications.

Christine: Nobody cares.

Kendra Perry: Nobody cares.

Christine: Agreed. And you're much more searchable. So when people ask me how do I find you on Instagram, I tell them you can either look for "Christine Hansen" because my name is "Christine Hansen Sleep Expert", or you can look for "sleeplikeabus" because that's my handle. So you will find me whatever you type, which is amazing. So people do it. Use your name. I would suggest use your name and your business title. And just decide is your name going to be your business name or is your handle going to be whatever. But that way you're searchable twice, which is super cool.

Christine: The other thing is if you do want your credentials, just line a couple and then say dot, dot, dot. Like for example in my bio, I say that I've been featured in National Geographic books, et cetera. So even I have this little space available, I just do dot, dot, dot, but it's really, really helpful. Then a greet, use your personal picture and a quote or a blog or something like that.

Christine: And here's another tip, what I do ... because I use a personal picture every second day during the week. And Kendra and I did this for our pictures, whenever we go traveling, we go to Airbnb Experiences and book a photo shoot. And they're usually around 80 bucks, and you get 20 to 25 pictures is the norm, I think. And you get great pictures, like really great photographers out there. And they're perfect for Instagram and drop posts and so forth. So it's not expensive. It doesn't break the bank. And you can constantly feed fresh photos into your feed. It's Instagram, people are there because it's a visual platform, get over yourself.

Kendra Perry: Take good photos, right? Yeah, we started doing that ... I don't know, not that long ago. But our branch shoot that we did for the podcast, we just did it in San Diego on the beach with this photographer who seemed really introverted and not confident. And I was like, "Oh I don't know how this is going to go." But they were great photos. Really, really. And tons of them, right?

Christine: Exactly.

Kendra Perry: And it cost us like a hundred bucks or something.

Christine: Not even. Not even. And it doesn't even need to be ... like I like to have a photographer do photos because I don't know who else I would ask all the time, but if you go to see celebrities, like Reese Witherspoon, she does have some of her old photos, that were new ones, but she had a lot of photos that friends took with their iPhones, of her. Obviously she knows how to pose but it just goes to show you don't always need the professional angle. If you have someone, I don't know, a boyfriend or just a friend you hang out with, or a partner or whatever, or just a good friend, and where ever you are, you ask them can you take a picture of me, don't feel uncomfortable about it. Just say it's for my job. You can even do it with your iPhone or whatever smart phone you have. The camera's are so good nowadays.

Kendra Perry: They're so good.

Christine: The portrait mode, hello.

Kendra Perry: Hello portrait mode.

Christine: How much you can do, it's crazy.

Kendra Perry: It's such a good point because if you go on my feed, there's some photos on there that are processional, but there's a lot of photos that are literally just taken with my Google phone or my boyfriend's Google phone, and it's a really good, high quality camera. Now I also have a little tripod for my phone, so when I go places, I might just put on the timer and get a quick photo of me doing something. Actually, I posted an Instagram post on the editing eps that I use, but maybe that would be a good episode for an upcoming Biz Bomb episode, because I have like two apps that I pull things into that will take a photo that's pretty average, and I have my pre-set, and then I clean up my complexion and I clean up the colors, and suddenly it's a professional photo. It doesn't need to be a big deal. And in the end even selfies are better than not being on your feed.

Christine: Absolutely. And I would advocate that you have some kind of structure on your feed, and anything that you want to throw out there is your stories. That's how I handle it. So if I take a crazy selfie or just some snap shots from when I'm out and about, I still evaluate what I put into my stories, it's always personal. Usually it's my personal life and just showing ... because again it's part of my brand. When I travel first class it's part of my brand. It's who I am, it's what I sell. But also when I'm in the bathtub with my new kittens, that's also kind of who I am.

Christine: And you use it even more for marketing. I haven't done it quite as much yet. So there's so much wiggle room, as long as you stay true to yourself. So use gifs that you would usually use, use emojis that you would usually use. The fonts, there are so many different ones that you can use. They all have pros and cons I find, but use colors that you would use, that you find pretty. Just use things that you find attractive and I find that you are already on brand.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, and it's a good point with Instagram Stories because when it comes to personal branding, and I think we're both on board with this Christine, is that we really think you need to use video to build a brand, right?

Christine: My god yes.

Kendra Perry: It's really hard to push out your personality on a blog post, on social media posts.

Christine: Unless you're a super good writer.

Kendra Perry: Unless you're the most amazing writer in the world.

Christine: But even then people get sick of that.

Kendra Perry: They want to see you, right?

Christine: Exactly. And they combine it. I'm a huge [Laura Bell Grey 00:31:56] fan. I worked with her a couple of times. And her [inaudible 00:32:00] are amazing. They're full of her personality, and she just does it because she's amazingly talented. But even so, she still uses photos too. But she manages to ... she's so talented it's crazy. Not a lot of people are. Just don't consider yourself to be as talented I would say.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, and there's so many ways to share video content these days. And I think people get really uncomfortable and nervous about live video, but if you're not comfortable on life video, you can still share pre-recorded video. Instagram Stories is all pre-recorded video. IGTV, which is the biggest bang for your buck for engagement on Instagram right now, like seriously, it is the biggest bang for your buck. I'm getting like six times more engagement on my IGTV videos than I am on feed posts right now, and even Instagram Stories. Instagram really wants to push it. And it's a pre-recorded video, maximum 10 minutes. What a great amount of time to get super to the point but actually teach and educate people.

Christine: Exactly. And I expect that your Instagram feed is going to be like your mini-website and your IGTV is what Instagram is pushing for, like I really think that's video and so forth.

Christine: And a little trick that I have because I never expect to actually watch or listen to whenever I do a video or a podcast, so whenever they do I'm super surprised and that's not a lie. Because I just assume, and Kendra and I are just recording this, but I actually don't ... well I do believe it, I know it's true, but I never have, in the back of my head, that you guys will actually watch all of [inaudible 00:33:41]. So whenever I speak with you I'm just like, "Oh god this is so embarrassing, you actually listen?" It's really weird, so I kind of bubble myself into that world and that's how it works for me. But I think that's something you could do. Just assume nobody's ever going to watch it.

Kendra Perry: I mean in the end, especially when you're new, probably not a lot of people are going to be watching it anyways. And I think it's really important, with video, like it's not something that we both came into the world being good at. If you go back, I'm sure, and look at Christine's early videos or my early Facebook lives, it's like not the same person because I was not comfortable. The first time I went live on video was Periscope when that used to be a thing.

Christine: Oh my god, it was so embarrassing.

Kendra Perry: I know, I hated it because I go live on this video. I'm like, been nervous all day. I've created this whole script. I'm so, so, so nervous. And then all I'm getting is comments being like, "Nice pitch, show your boobs."

Christine: Show your boobs. Yes.

Kendra Perry: And I'm like what is happening, what is happening? I'm trying to talk about adrenal fatigue, what's happening? I don't know why all the perverts were on Periscope, but that's where they hung out.

Christine: Yeah, agreed.

Kendra Perry: Luckily you don't have to deal with that on Facebook live. But I think it's something that you will never be good at unless you do it consistently. You've got to do it all the time. And eventually ... like I never would have thought that I could just hop onto live video with no preparation and just talk about a subject at length. I never would have thought I would do that, but now I can, because I've probably put out 300 live videos at this point in my career, right?

Christine: Yes. Yes. And also again, if I look at my first videos, I feel comfortable with it, it's because I always taught and always done things like that, but I wasn't myself in the beginning. I still have straightened hair and all kinds of bullshit. But now you just see me with bed hair.

Kendra Perry: I feel like you're in your bed when you record at the time.

Christine: I am actually. I actually am. And you'll see my headboard or I'm in my hotel room and I just rolled out of bed. And it's not even having make up on. And it doesn't matter. And funny enough, I sometimes feel that the videos I shoot off location, so without studio lights and here in my office, but I do spontaneously at an airport or in my hotel room, so very often those will get the most resonance. So mix it up. Keep it professional but also don't be afraid to just impromptu shoot a video. Because you can, you have your phone with you. There's nothing else you need.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, absolutely. And something also that's kind of cool too, is I think YouTube just introduced vertical video. So if you're making an IGTV video, with is just going to be vertical, like you holding your phone, you can actually just upload it to YouTube as well, straight from a YouTube app on your phone. So that's something they just rolled out. So repurposed content, right, is a really good way to ...

Christine: Totally.

Kendra Perry: Hope I won't go crazy.

Christine: Exactly. So watch out or listen to our episode with Jamie Palmer, I think it's the second or third episode on our podcast ever. It's still one of my favorites. And [inaudible 00:36:47] and I work with Jamie actually.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, we do. We love Jamie.

Christine: We love her. But its changed both of our businesses tremendously. So go and have a look at that. When you know who you are, when your branding is ready, then go and have a look at that.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, and especially when you're new. I know it's easy to compare yourself to other people, like if you go check out, like my business you'll see that I'm on all the social media platforms, but I also have a team. I have a team of people who does that. When you're new and starting out, you can't make specific content for every platform. You need to choose one platform that you know that's where your ideal client is hanging out, and maybe it's a platform that you actually enjoy using, and then just try to make one piece of content each week, and then you repurpose, right? And you put it out on other platforms. But this is a little bit off topic, but it's also [crosstalk 00:37:32].

Christine: The only other thing also that I want to say, and you just said it, that don't try to be like other people, is that sometimes people say look at what other people do in your industry. And I would actually highly encourage you against that. Because you are different. And for example, I don't have a problem training people at what I do and become a member of my team, because I know that even if five of us do exactly the same thing, and they are going to, whoever the potential client is, is going to resonate with someone different. And I see it because one of mentees just used my tagline. And I told her she could use part of it, not all of it. But it doesn't actually suit here. Because when you talk to her, she isn't like that. So whenever I work with my mentees, although we use the same structure and we have the same business, they all have a different person they are drawn to and that they naturally connect with.

Christine: And I ask them that, you know? "Who are the people who usually open up to you? Who are the people that just when you are in a room with people, who you just suddenly sit somewhere, offside, having a beer with and just a great conversation. Who are they?" Those are the people who are you, who you naturally resonate with. So don't use copy from someone else's website. Even if you just change it a little bit. It's not you. Whenever you're you, it's your brand, it's your voice, it's your aesthetic. The same as I find some very sleek fonts very nice, whereas others are more for the brushstroke kind of thing. You need to go with what belongs to you, what you would wear if you could put it on. And if you had a fashion show to go to to represent you, what would you feel most comfortable in, that's you.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, I agree.

Christine: But don't copy it, it's not going to work.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, and I think people, you want to write your copy and write your social media posts exactly like you would talk. How would you actually talk? If you were just going to write that social media post, no one's going to see it as a journal entry, like what would it actually look like. And I think the biggest compliment you can get is when someone's like, "I already feel like I know you." I get that with my strategy sessions with the coaches, and they're like, "I feel like I already know you." They don't realize it but that's the best compliment that anyone can give me because that means that what I'm doing is working, right?

Christine: Exactly. Exactly. And don't hide yourself. Don't pretend to be anything that you're not. And I noticed it a lot recently, the latest podcast interviews that I've done, and I've done quite a few in the last two to three months. People love them. And it's not me just saying that. I literally had three people get back to me yesterday about three different podcast interviews, and saying, "This was such a great episode." And it's episodes where I talk about how I changed, how, yes, my marriage ended. But also how I made money, the crosses I had to go through, the ugly sides, but also everything I believe in, which might be sometimes uncomfortable. And just being, not vulnerability alert, blah, blah, blah, but just like I'm not better than you just because sometimes things were hard, this is just what it's like. I'm being very honest.

Christine: And I think that's the other thing, when you're journaling or whenever something triggers you, always ask yourself am I honest right here? Honesty is the most important word that you can have in your life. I honestly ... I honestly believe that. I really think so.

Kendra Perry: Yeah. I mean I love that. Honesty. It's so true. Like we said, it doesn't happen overnight. It's not like you're just going to listen to this episode and know exactly what to do. It's going to be a work in process. You're going to make some mistakes. You're going to have to switch things and change things and revamp things. It's always a work in progress, but in the end just don't try to be who you think you should be, just be you. Just be who you are, exactly how you would in everyday life.

Christine: Agreed. And I just want to do a little bonus thing here. I just really quickly want to share the people and the tools that helped me the most. And you can do too, Kendra.

Kendra Perry: Sure.

Christine: But one thing that I'm sharing all the time, listen to my podcast interviews, is Tapping Into Wealth, by Margaret Lynch. If you want to be comfortable with money and selling yourself, then I've worked with a couple of different coaches. But one that I'm still working with regularly is [Halinda 00:42:04] Moors, so Moors M-O-O-R-S. She's my energy, quantum field kind of person. I still don't know how it works exactly, but it works. I also work with Heather Jones, she's an EFT practitioner that really helped. I worked with Amber Dugger, my financial coach.

Kendra Perry: We had her on the podcast. She's on like a [inaudible 00:42:22] episode.

Christine: She's amazing.

Kendra Perry: Check it out.

Christine: Check it out. [Katimonstas 00:42:26] Peters is also ... she's a witch, really. She's amazing. Check it out. She's fantastic, helped me a lot. So I work with [Meryl Creeksman 00:42:36]. She's changed her business so she doesn't offer the same package that I used to do. And then those were I think, personal development wise, huge. And also Doctor Drema Dial. She's a psychologist and she's helped me a lot too. And [Robin Collette 00:42:53]. So you can see I work and get help from a lot of different people. But you meet people when you're supposed to meet them. And they've helped me tremendously over the last time. And you cannot do it alone. I think that's the message. And I would have saved so much money if I had worked, well more, on my own personal development earlier.

Kendra Perry: I agree.

Christine: And it never stops.

Kendra Perry: It never stops. Yeah like I always talk about having three counselors. For talk therapy, I see someone for trauma release, and then me and my partner see a couples counselor even though our relationship is great, because we work on prevention, right? And just continually learn how to better communicate with each other. But the counseling has been a big thing for me because you do get triggered in your business. It will bring out all your biggest insecurities. Every time I launch something, I'm still that girl in high school who's wondering if anyone's going to show up to my party, right?

Christine: I know because you tell me and it's adorable. And I'm like, "Kendra, chill." Is anyone going to show up to my party?

Kendra Perry: I know. It's funny but I get triggered from high school because I was bullied, I had really toxic female friends in my life. I've actually seen some of that, those feelings in high school come up recently in my business, especially in relation to internet trolls. That's something I've been dealing within my business recently. So I called up my counselor and I was like, "I'm ready to deal with the high school shit. Let's go four sessions and let's go for it." I don't want some stranger on the internet who hates their life, who just wants to spew negativity at me, affect me the way that it affects me. It really affects me and it has nothing to do with me. So I can tell that it's triggering high school Kendra.

Christine: Exactly. And then you cry, it's hard, it sucks, you're sick for two days, and then you get through it.

Kendra Perry: That's right. And you learn to recognize it. Those feelings are still going to come up, you're still going to feel that triggering sensation, but when you do the personal work and you actually grow and start to heal, you're able to step back from it and be like, "Okay, that's triggering me. Why is that triggering me? Okay cool. These are the tools that I have so that I don't go into fight or flight."

Christine: Exactly. And that's when you show up authentically, fearlessly, genuinely, honestly, and that, ladies and gentlemen, is your brand.

Christine: All right. Juicy, juicy stuff girl. Now I have like goosebumps all over.

Kendra Perry: I know, I'm sweating, but it's actually [crosstalk 00:45:31]

Christine: I know. [crosstalk 00:45:35] I hope they can't see the little sweat things on my noose.

Kendra Perry: I'm glad everyone can't see my boob sweat.

Christine: My god. No I like, I have the weirdest sweat spot, it's under my lip and on my nose. Like I swear all the glands are on my nose.

Kendra Perry: I get the sweat mustache.

Kendra Perry: All right guys, thank you so much for putting up with us as always. We're always completely blown away when you want to hang out with us. It's like so weird. But what I am going to say? Oh yeah, if you like this episode and you are an Instagram user, screenshot this episode on Instagram, share it to your stories, and tell us your biggest take home. And we will share your stories, to our story, because we love Instagram, and we love Instagram Stories. And if you don't use Instagram, just go give us a five star review on iTunes. No big deal, no big deal. [inaudible 00:46:27]

Christine: It would make us very, very happy.

Kendra Perry: Yeah it will. And we'll read it on air.

Christine: Yes, yes. Absolutely. All right. Have a great time every one and we'll talk to you in two weeks.

Why You Absolutely MUST Beta Test Before Launching a Program with Lori Kennedy

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We were googley-eyed over today’s guest…the OG of online health marketing, Lori Kennedy! Lori is the founder and CEO of The Wellness Business Hub which provides professional training and personal development for health practitioners looking to build and grow their businesses online. In 2012 she started her online business, while still running her in person nutrition consulting. By 2014 she was able to close in person consult and focus solely on her online programs. Holy crap right?! How did she do it? Well you’re about to find out.

Obviously a lot has changed since 2012…let’s face it, with online marketing things change daily! So how does Lori keep up? As she put it, the tactics change, but the fundamentals don't. For example, tactics could be what was webinars but are now FB live. The fundamentals of understanding the principles of client attraction and conversion and how to actually sell doesn’t change. And this also includes the evolution of personal brand. Back in Lori’s day (which makes her sound so old but she still a young duck), it was all about posting a blog a day to get your name out there. But now, it’s about showing up and being present on your social platforms – engaging with your followers and being a leader to your tribe. people in the health & wellness industry don't necessarily understand how to being a persona or a brand, they're used to teaching and providing recipes, and doing only that doesn't work in 2019.

Lori is also an expert on launching health & wellness programs and the first thing that needs to be done before anything is launched is to beta test the crap out of it! A beta test should have a minimum of 5 people, whether you’re doing a group program on one on one coaching. By doing a beta test first, you not only have testimonials from those clients for when you launch your full program, but you can make tweaks to what they liked, didn’t like and improve it. 

In this episode, we talk about the benefits of beta testing, how mindset plays a role on how you run your business (even making 5 or 6 figures in a successful business, there are still things that trigger you), and the steps you need to take to create a successful online wellness course.

In addition to being the founder and CEO of The Wellness Business Hub, Lori is also a mom, and lover of all things related to coffee. Lori’s two foundational programs The Wellness Business Academy and The 10K Success System are growing a powerful community of health leaders who are transforming the way healthcare is done all over the world. She is also the host of The Business of Becoming Podcast for entrepreneurs who want to build the business and life of their dreams… all on their own terms.

Connect with Lori on Instagram: @lorikennedyinc

Grab our Ultimate Health Coaching Tool Kit complete with our top picks for platforms plus our sample contract and intake form: http://360healthbizpodcast.com

LIke this episode? Take a screenshot and share it to your Instagram stories and we will share it to ours

Connect with us on social:

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@kperrynutrition
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TRANSCRIPT


Christine: Hello everyone, and welcome to this brand new wonderful episode of the 360 Health Biz Podcast. And today it's a Getty because you have Kendra Perry, my wonderful co hostess with the mostess.

Kendra Perry: Thank you.

Christine: And my humble self, Christine. And we match again, I don't know why, but you have to watch us on YouTube. It's the funniest thing in the world. Like, recently we just seem to have this dress for success amazing vibe. I don't know.

Kendra Perry: How did we both choose orange and black, like random colors, a color I never wear.

Christine: I know. [crosstalk 00:00:31] It's super weird. I don't know. I'm watching Mad Men so maybe I'm inspired by the 70s or something like that, I don't know. But today we have ... Oh, actually Lori is in the same vibe as well. We have-

Lori Kennedy: Just going to say, we all kind of are matchy matchy.

Christine: ... It's super true. Like, look at this stunning [inaudible 00:00:48] I feel. So let me introduce you to this fantastic guest of ours. You will learn so much in this episode. It will ... Seriously, your brain is going to explode. So Lori Kennedy is the founder and the CEO of the Wellness Business Hub, love that actually, which provides professional training and personal development for health practitioners looking to build and grow their businesses online. Two things that I can just say you have to have. If you just do one or the other, it's not going to work.

Christine: She's also a mom and a lover of all things related to coffee. Lori's two foundational programs, the Wellness Business Academy and the 10K Success System are growing a powerful business, a powerful community of health leaders who are transforming the way healthcare is done all over the world. She's also the host of the Business of Becoming Podcast for entrepreneurs who want to build a business and life of their dreams all on their own terms. And obviously, we are big fans of that. So sort of liked Lori to welcome you today and to help us with our listeners and to basically guide, teach us, let us know all your goodies that you have stored in your brain.

Lori Kennedy: Thank you for having me.

Christine: So for all of you, just very quickly, you can obviously catch the video on your audio, but also on YouTube if you want to see it, and on our website, which is 360healthbizpodcast.com. So fly over there and then Kendra, I'm going to give you the floor for our first questions that we're going to bombard Lori with.

Kendra Perry: Yeah. Well, first of all, I would love to know just a quick version of your story, because I know you used to be a health coach and then you transitioned over to supporting health coaches. So can you tell us a little bit about, yeah, where you got started and how that transition happened just for our members who don't know you.

Lori Kennedy: Totally. I was actually a registered holistic nutritionist. And I've always been in the health industry. So I started as a personal trainer. I got my first PT certification in 1999 through the YMCA. I've never had a proper corporate job, so the nine to five thing wasn't really ever sort of in the cards for me. And I did personal training for a long time. I was part of a team, this was I guess my only sort of proper job. I was part of a team, a startup team for a 20,000 square foot health and fitness facility.

Lori Kennedy: And so because of my background, I was a gymnastics coach, and I was a competitive dancer and I was a camp counselor. I was in charge of the teen section. I was given this budget at 24 years old to go and outfit this massive section and create all of the programming for it and all of that. So that was really my foray, and to understanding what it was to be an entrepreneur, because there were two men who started this big facility. And during that time I was also still training and I was doing a lot of things and I decided to go back to school to become a registered holistic nutritionist, this was 2007.

Lori Kennedy: And from there it just sort of evolved. My career evolved. I had a full time practice for seven years that I closed at the end of 2014. I had my signature program called Wow! Weight Loss that ended up running in nine different locations, and I had licensed it out to dozens of health practitioners across Canada. And just very naturally, very organically found my way onto the internet, because I had two small children and I really wanted financial independence.

Lori Kennedy: I really wanted to have a bigger impact. I knew that I was made for more. I knew that having this one type of business wasn't going to be the end game for me. And so I started to take it online in 2012 and I did both at the same time. So I ran my full time nutrition practice while I was growing my online business, which is basically two full time jobs, plus I had two more kids. And I was able to make enough money at the end of 2014 to be able to close my nutrition practice. And so for me, the goal was I had to make 10% more than what I know I needed three consecutive months in a row.

Lori Kennedy: Because if I was able to do it three consecutive months in a row, that meant that I actually knew what I was doing, it wasn't random and I could just continue that. And so when that happened, that was my sort of exit plan from my nutrition. It took me about six months to probably end up closing it. And so since end of 2014, beginning of 2015, we've been growing this hub on the internet and servicing tens of thousands of practitioners and coaches and Fit Pros literally from all over the world.

Kendra Perry: That's amazing. And so I did the same. I did the Canadian school of natural nutrition as well. I did that same program and I would love to know what is your opinion on the business model that they teach in that program and maybe similar programs?

Lori Kennedy: So I think regardless of where you went to school, the school, the certification, their purpose isn't to teach you business. Their purpose is to give you the professional education that gives you a beginner skill set to start working with clients. Because the world that we now live in changes so frequently, I don't even think it would be possible for them-

Kendra Perry: But to the point.

Lori Kennedy: ... to really keep up with. And that's also not their purpose. It's like if you think about it from the perspective of a doctor. Yes, doctors have to have private practices, but imagine if half of the doctors education was in business versus in doctoring, right? Like, in all of the things that they needed. It's the same thing with us. I think anything ... Could curriculum be improved? Of course it could, but that's not their area of expertise. They teach what they know and what they know is the key fundamentals of the mind, body, spirit of holistically improving health.

Lori Kennedy: And so I think where the breakdown is, isn't so much in the professional institutions, it's in the lack of understanding that this is one aspect that is required to be successful. I think that's where the breakdown is, is I know for myself, when I went to do my PT certifications, when I went to go do my registered holistic nutrition designation, under no circumstances was I even aware at all that I was a business owner, that I was starting a company, that I had to do all of the things, learn all of the skills that would contribute to my success.

Lori Kennedy: I was just obsessed with figuring out the body and learning nutrition and geeking out on research. And it never occurred to me even after I graduated, even after I rented a space in a Wellness clinic. It took me over a year to figure out, "Oh, there is books on selling that I can read from the library." Like, what's marketing? I had a brochure and I ran free talks that my mom and her friends came to. It didn't occur to me at all that I also had to acquire the same level of skill set, if not greater, for business. So I think that's perhaps where the breakdown is, is that people going into these ...

Lori Kennedy: I think the one thing that we all have in common regardless of our designation, is that we come from a place of service first. So whether that's wanting to improve the quality of your own health or your family's health or your friends' health or whatever that may be, most of us who become health professionals do it because we want to be of service to ourselves or others. We do it because we're nerds and we geek out on this stuff and we like it, and it's interesting and we want to improve the quality of our health. And so we don't necessarily go into it thinking, "I'm going to do this as a business. I'm an entrepreneur. I better go and acquire skills." It's an afterthought, and I think that's where the breakdown is.

Christine: Yeah, very often. I don't entirely agree because that wasn't for me, it's always kind of different for another person. I really saw my niche and I was like, "I want to be an entrepreneur, and this is my niche where I want to go." And so it's a little bit different, but I do agree that 99% of the time it's exactly the kind of person or the journey that people take that are in the health industry. I'm just a greedy bitch, you know that.

Christine: It's just [inaudible 00:10:31]. But I mean you have got something of everything, and I do ... What is fascinating to me is that when you started, because I cannot imagine. Like, you've witnessed this whole transformation. And I just had a conversation with someone yesterday who was talking to me about all of these webinars they're trying to do, and I was like, "Well, that's very much 2017," which an internet peak is years ago, it's like eons ago. So when you started, I cannot even imagine what the trend was at the time.

Kendra Perry: Well, like, 2012 you're like the original gangster.

Lori Kennedy: Yes, that was like-

Kendra Perry: It's like OG in the house. Right? I'm like, "Jesus, was the internet around in 2012?"

Christine: I don't even know what happened 2012 but it's like, I mean, things must changed so much. Can you remember one thing that was super hot back then and that now is just cringe?

Lori Kennedy: You know what's really interesting about that? Tactics change, but the fundamentals don't. Right? And so the tactic of let's say webinar, which now the tactic would be Facebook Live, let's just say. Right? Webinars still work 100%, I'll just say that. They totally work when they're done right. But the tactics change, but the actual underlying principles of why you're using the tactic that hasn't changed, because business is business, marketing is marketing, it's been around. Direct response marketing and all of that good stuff has been around for how long, right?

Christine: Ever.

Lori Kennedy: I think it's interesting to differentiate between the tactics that change every six months and being able to quickly pivot when the tactic changes because you understand that those underlying fundamentals, you understand the principles of client attraction and nurturing, and conversion and how to actually sell. So whether you're doing a live or a webinar or from the stage, the framework of what you're saying is the same, it's just the tactic changes. So one of the things that was super easy back in the day was blogging. It was ... I mean, you put up a blog and people saw it, right? People also read it, right?

Kendra Perry: Your like, "What? People saw my blog?" Freeze.

Lori Kennedy: They saw the blogs, and people read the blogs and people commented on the blogs.

Kendra Perry: What?

Lori Kennedy: And you didn't need all of this promotion to derive eyeballs to the blog. It just, it was there. And I remember like I've written, I don't even know how many blogs. I mean, I've been blogging since 2010, so for nine years. And there was years where I put out content every single day.

Kendra Perry: Oh my God.

Lori Kennedy: And that's because that's how you got eyeballs, right? Where now, people put out content every single day on Instagram or in a Facebook group. But here's the sort of clincher is if you don't understand how to write for engagement, for attraction, the blog wouldn't have worked back then and the posts don't work now. Right? So it's not so ... And I feel like this is also a mistake that most people make is they're copying the tactics because they see other people doing it and they don't actually understand the framework of how to use Instagram or how to use the Facebook group or how to even blog. Right?

Lori Kennedy: That it would actually get an ROI on your time. Meaning people would either comment or they would do an action from the blog. Right? And I think that's sort of ... It's for sure been so interesting to see the evolution of being a personal brand. You didn't need to be a personal brand back in 2011. You didn't even need to be a brand back in 2015, you didn't need to be. You could still be the professional. Now it's very different. Now people are like, "What color of underwear are you wearing?" And not like a common comment. It's different. It's totally different now with the evolution of Stories.

Lori Kennedy: I remember when Stories came out. I remember when Facebook Live came out. I remember, and it didn't exist. And to some degree I think because also, not all of us, I'm generalizing, but most people in our industry tend to be introverted, tend to be more highly sensitive, tend to be more private, and having to make that shift to becoming a celebrity, to becoming a persona, it's challenging for a lot of people. They don't understand how to communicate in that way, they're used to teaching. They're used to putting up tips and recipes, and that doesn't work in 2019. It worked-

Kendra Perry: Amen.

Lori Kennedy: ... 2015, and 2016 and 2017, but it doesn't work in 2019. To get engagement, to get that person to the next step where it would eventually result in them working with you.

Kendra Perry: Yeah. I mean, that's amazing and it's such a good point. It is a hard thing to do because you're literally trying to show your personality and be yourself to your phone, pretending that there is other people on the other side and you're just like, "How do I actually be myself, who I am in real life with the internet and with my phone?" And you're right, it's such a hard transition. Yeah.

Lori Kennedy: I agree.

Kendra Perry: I mean, I've struggled with it. I feel it, but I mean anything is practice. You just got to do it over, and over and over again.

Lori Kennedy: And I think too, it's not just being yourself, it's having this authoritative frame. Right? Because I think there is a difference in people commenting and just being yourself and giving away free information and showing up with this authoritative, funny, engaging frame or persona that people want to follow. That people aren't just consuming your content because you're funny, right? They're consuming it because you're making them feel a certain way and you're giving them permission to feel however they want to feel, but also you're doing it with the intention of making them slightly uncomfortable so that they want to take an action to move forward.

Lori Kennedy: I think there's a difference, right? People who are just personal brands, who are like celebrities, they can just show up as themselves because they make money from being in movies. Right? You have to almost be a little bit more direct responsy in our persona, right? Where it's not just, "Here is a smoothie," but talking about why you made the smoothie and how the smoothie affected your mood or your insulin or whatever, and sort of adding that little component in, in that, like authoritative leadership type of way, which is really hard for people.

Lori Kennedy: And I think perhaps the reason that it's been easier for me is because I studied direct response marketing and copywritings, I still do. Like, that's my go to. I know how to tell a story, I know how to frame it out. I know my ICA inside and out, and so when I'm sharing being freezing ass cold on the baseball field with my kid, I understand how that's affecting them. I'm not just sharing it because I'm like, "Oh, shit I didn't post today."

Christine: Yes, exactly.

Lori Kennedy: Right?

Christine: I find it really interesting because you kind of talk about yourself, which is very vulnerable, and still you need to circle back to your expertise in a way that is not like a clean break, but it needs to be smooth, it's not easy. Not to forget that the more eyeballs you get, you're like, "Yay," but at the same time you also have comments that aren't so nice. Everyone's a critic nowadays, and so it's like it's this ... I think it's very hard, but at the same time when you talk to people, you tell them that's kind of what you have to do.

Christine: And sometimes it's just really, really ... It's against everything some people in our industry, not stand for, but it's not their character at all. I think Kendra and I, we've managed it and for me it's very, really easy, I just forget someone is watching this. I forget someone is listening to this. I'm always surprised when people actually do.

Christine: But if you're actually aware of that, which probably most people do, how do you help them to take that step and to [inaudible 00:19:34] I mean, you don't always have to take pictures of yourself or videos or even having a graphic and writing a story to it. How do you motivate those who just really cringe and tired, who would never do it according to their comfort zone or their persona? How do you do that? How do you help them to overcome that?

Lori Kennedy: I think that it's a really good question and it's part of a much bigger conversation. In the sense that if we go back to sort of what we started talking about, that most people didn't go into this to be an authority, to be a celebrity, to be an expert, they just wanted to help people not have IBS symptoms or whatever. Right? And so accept that in 2019 this is what's required or an element of that is what is required. And if your intention is to have impact, if your intention is to play bigger and not necessarily because you're driven by money, but if your intention is impact and you want to help as many people as humanly possible, let's just say get rid of IBS symptoms, then what you asked me is part of the bigger question of how are we going to help you to feel comfortable being a leader?

Lori Kennedy: How are we going to help you to feel comfortable holding space for hundreds or thousands or tens of thousands of people putting you on a pedestal? How are we going to help you really step into that responsibility of being the authority of being the leader, of potentially being a boss to other people. It's part of this bigger question when I know for sure when I first started, the thought of having 12 people work for me never entered my mind. The thought of having tens of thousands of clients never entered my mind.

Lori Kennedy: The thought that people would be nervous to talk to me because they're feeling a certain way never entered my mind, but that's the truth of it now and it's a responsibility that I take very seriously. That requires me to do things on my end to make sure that I'm leveling up all the time to hold the space. And so it's part of that conversation of if you're not feeling comfortable putting forth your opinions and putting out content because you're scared that Aunt Sally is going to be annoyed by the fact that you're putting out really good content on your personal Facebook page.

Lori Kennedy: If you're nervous about pissing people off, if you're nervous about what other people are going to think of you, then that's where we need to work on that. We need to address this sort of root cause of that because it's a whole bigger conversation, right? When you start having 50 people or a hundred people, clients at a time, you got to get your self in order to be able to handle that. Nevermind like thousands of people, so-

Christine: That's why I love that you do personal development as well, because I think it's impossible to become successful if you don't do that.

Lori Kennedy: ... I totally agree. Again, I think people going into it don't have the awareness that it's their responsibility to do that kind of work. Right? They only think like, "I'm so interested in smoothies, and I'm so interested in IBS," and they don't think about it. And again, this is sort of the disconnect between the educational institutions and the understanding of what it really means to run a health focused business is that if you are not doing your own work, it's almost irresponsible to even see clients because you're putting your own shit in their world and that's not fair.

Kendra Perry: Yeah. And it ends up being really tough because if you don't do the work, you just get triggered all the time. You get triggered by the trolls-

Lori Kennedy: Everything triggers you.

Kendra Perry: ... you get triggered. It brings up all your insecurities and with me it still does. It's like when I'm launching something or doing a webinar, I'm still like that high school girl who's like, "Is anyone going to come to my party? [crosstalk 00:23:59]"

Lori Kennedy: No, but it's really true and I see it in my clients from the beginning and the clients who are now doing five figures a month. The difference in the things that trigger them. I still have things that trigger me. I do the work all the time. Right? I have a therapist. I belong to ... I invest in my ... I have a therapist and I have energy people.

Christine: You do?

Lori Kennedy: I see a trainer. I do my own work. We're getting ready to host a large event where I'm the host and there is things that we're doing that have me leveling up. That is causing some inner, like, who do I think I am type of things to come out and I'm having to do the work around that because I don't want to go into the event with that mindset, because that's not in service to the people that paid me money. That's not fair to them. Right? I need to hold space for hundreds of people in a contained environment. I need for four days.

Lori Kennedy: I need to do that work. Right? And so I think being able to look yourself in the mirror and say, and honor all of those ways in which doing an Instagram Story makes you uncomfortable, posting an opinion, putting your stake in the ground like I said before. Like, if you don't do this, I think it's irresponsible. That's a pretty opinionated thing to say. It's not the opinion, but I also have worked with tens of thousands of people and I sort of have the credibility to say that and also because I do with my own work.

Lori Kennedy: But I think it's getting really honest with yourself and it's also saying, "You know what? I have work to do," and honoring the work and honoring where you need to maybe improve some things. Maybe you do lack skills, which is a genuine reason for you to feel insecure. Right? You might actually lack skills, so go acquire the skills. Right? Don't just be upset that you don't have them, just go acquire them. Right? So it's that kind of stuff. It's acknowledging why these types of things make you really uncomfortable and then going and fixing it.

Kendra Perry: Yeah. I love the twist and the turn that this conversation has taken, because it's a really important conversation. But I do want to bring things back around to launching, because I know you are the launch queen and when we were originally talking about sort of the business model that maybe people think they are going to be doing when they come to school because like you said, there is a disconnect. They don't really know that there is all this other stuff they have to learn.

Kendra Perry: So I feel like a lot of people come out of school and they think they're going to run their business like a natural path, where they just like kind of put their sign out, they open up a business and people book these one off sessions. And I know for you, you really encourage people to create programs and group things. So can you just speak a little bit more to that?

Lori Kennedy: Yeah, totally. So in my opinion, and what we've seen is having some type of methodology that you become known for, like, this is your area of expertise. We call that a signature program. All a signature program is, it's a X module, step by step methodology that delivers a result. That methodology, in and of itself, is your ticket to freedom. Because when you have a methodology that delivers a specific result, the only way that you could come up with it is by identifying your ideal client to say, "Okay, I want to work with people who have IBS and this X module methodology at the end of it they're going to get this result."

Lori Kennedy: So that your brand and your business is set up to attract those people into your world, to all of them then go through your methodology. And you would then add on levels of support. So whether that's group calls or one on one calls, where I find people get a bit confused with this whole group coaching business is they do group coaching and then they have an entirely separate one on one thing on the side, and I'm like, "No, that's not your ticket to freedom."

Lori Kennedy: When you have a launch, which is really just a promotional event, you are putting an event around enrolling people into your program. And so because you have this methodology that hopefully is automated because you're able to put dozens of people through it because you are no longer creating on the fly, you're no longer repeating yourself a million times because you have this methodology you run everybody through, you can have a promotional event, you can have an enrollment event and you can also enroll people ongoing.

Lori Kennedy: And so launching in and of itself is one of the strategies that you would use to grow your business, because if you only ever launched, you'd only be enrolling clients two, three times a year. Well, I don't know about you, but I like to make money every day and I like to have impact every day. And so I don't want to be reliant only on launching two or three times a year because what happens if one of them flops or Facebook shuts off your ads, which had like ... You don't want to put all your eggs in one basket.

Lori Kennedy: And so I love launching, I think that they're great. I totally think that they still work. A lot of people are like, "Oh, launches are dead." They're just different. It's just different now. The way that you have to go about them is a little bit different than you did in 2015, for example, or even 2017. But the whole idea is to have this mainstay of your business, right? And the mainstay is this methodology by which you deliver a specific result. It's what you become known for, it's what makes you the expert, otherwise you're just bopping all around, helping anyone and everyone, and that's not a way to grow business.

Kendra Perry: Great. Yeah, and I like what you said. So you mentioned people who have ... They're like, this is the group coaching and this is the one on one, but you're saying that people should combine it. And what you mean by that is maybe like running people through a group and then they upgrade to become a one on one client or just having a one on one client thing and you put everyone through some sort of methodology. Is that what you mean by that?

Lori Kennedy: Kind of. I think it's definitely a paradigm shift. You can do it any way you want. Right? I think it's just understanding what your goals are. So if you have a group program, what that means is people start and stop on specific days. So the group cohort would start on September 15th and end on November 15th, but that means that people who see you, who contact you in October, they would then have to wait until February, let's just say. Well, that kind of sucks for everybody. So you can have groups, but because you have this methodology, you're also able to enroll people all the time.

Lori Kennedy: So the way that I teach it is think about the methodology and its own self contained container, right? So the methodology is the methodology, it's your 12 module program, let's just say. And if you wanted to run that as a group, you could. You could also simultaneously have people enrolling into it all the time, in which case you could then offer weekly group calls. And it doesn't matter when anybody ... If they're all at different points in the program, it doesn't matter.

Lori Kennedy: You could then offer an additional level of support, which would be one on one calls. Right? It's like when you go to ... I go to this place called BodyBlitz downtown, it's like waters and it's amazing. And so they have like the base, which is the waters, right? You go in the water and you go to the sauna and you do the whole thing, right? It's like the ... What's it called when you go around? I can't remember.

Kendra Perry: Like a circuit or something.

Lori Kennedy: A circuit, thank you. It's like a circuit. But then you can add on a massage and you can add on to this and you could add on different levels of small packages. It's the same thing. It's kind of like that for the program. You have your base methodology and then you could add on group calls and you could add on one on one supports so that anyone can start at any time, so that you're constantly enrolling people. And then during the hot times of the year, January, September, the spring, you could launch and do a group.

Kendra Perry: Right. I see what you're saying.

Lori Kennedy: Right? So-

Kendra Perry: Yeah. You're promoting this evergreen model where people are just-

Lori Kennedy: ... Yes.

Kendra Perry: ... Because yeah, I totally agree with you. Having a big launch three times a year is nice. You can make a bunch of money, but yeah. I mean yeah, Facebook ads getting shut off or like so many things could happen that could make it unsuccessful and then you're screwed for the next six months.

Lori Kennedy: Exactly. Right? So being able to run your business that way allows you to also scale it.

Kendra Perry: Yeah.

Christine: So I have a question for you. When do you think is a good time to start your first group program? Because I just talked to someone that I signed up as a mentee and she was basically told to immediately start with a group program because it does have so many advantages, you don't need to ... It's much less time for you, obviously lots is automated, you just do the group calls.

Christine: However, till she started her business she hasn't had a single private client yet. I was like, "Well, it's going to be difficult to fill your group program, and if you have your group calls and there is nobody there or just one person they might wonder where's the rest of the bunch?" Right? So when do you consider a good point to start a group program?

Lori Kennedy: So this again goes back to having a group or running it one on one is a tactic. So the way that I teach people is let's build your methodology, right? And Beta test the methodology. So if you have a 12 module system, right? You're getting rid of IBS symptoms, you're not custom making that program to each individual person. You're thinking, "Okay, what are the fundamentals that my ideal client, a person who has X, Y, and Z symptoms, what are the fundamentals that they need to learn and do in order to get an X result?"

Lori Kennedy: And to the way that we teach it is I want you to create the methodology and I want you to Beta test it. If you want to have five of your friends start the Beta test at the same time, great. A group, right? If you want to run seven people through it independently, one on one, great. Either way, we have an ethical responsibility as the practitioners to test our methodology before we do anything. Right? And so whether you're starting with one on one or a group to me is irrelevant, I want to know that what you're doing is quality.

Lori Kennedy: I think people have this idea that they need to start with a group or start one to one. No, you need to put X number of people through a Beta test. Then you can say, "Okay, now that my hypothesis is Beta tested," right? "Now that I've had seven people go through it," whether they started at the same time or not is irrelevant. You can then go, "Okay, I feel super confident about the program I'm going to run because I got all this feedback, I've taken time to fix it. I've taken time to go through it."

Lori Kennedy: And then if they wanted to run a group, they would have had testimonials, because they've run a Beta test, right? If they wanted to start with a group of let's say five people, they could. If they wanted to do it one on one, they could, but it's wrapped around putting people through a methodology. Right? So when people say like, "I don't have any client experience," because people in our program say that they come in because they don't have it. I'm like, "You don't need it. Go create your methodology and Beta. Go put it through a Beta test. That's your experience. That's your first five clients. That's your first 10 clients."

Lori Kennedy: We recommend in the Wellness Business Academy that you Beta test with minimum five people. Right? So after you've done that, then you can say, "Okay, what's the model that I'm going to use to facilitate this program?" The model would be either running it as a group or enrolling clients on a one on one basis, but regardless, everybody goes through that methodology because it's the ticket to freedom so that you're not constantly creating different things for different people when everybody needs the fundamentals anyway.

Christine: Yeah. I mean, that's genius. I love the idea of Beta testing. I've done it quite a few times because, yeah, you're not going to hit the nail on the head the first time, especially when you're brand new and by doing that you can actually like get feedback from your people and figure out what are they missing? Maybe something you didn't even think about, you're like, "Oh, they really need this and so I should be offering that." It's almost like this co-creation sort of thing. Your ideal clients and your expertise, which I think is super intelligent.

Lori Kennedy: And I think for those people too, who don't have client experience, it alleviates so much pressure of needing the program to be perfect. Right? When we teach people to be like, "Don't worry, it's going to suck. That's why your Beta testing." You need the people to give you all the feedback, otherwise you spend a year in perfectionistic syndrome being like, "I don't know," and you're all nervous because you have no frame of reference whether it's going to work or not. Well, of course. So having that Beta test, having sort of that ... Letting even the clients off the hook, people charge for the Beta or they don't charge, to me it's irrelevant. I don't care.

Lori Kennedy: I just want you to do it. I want you to go through the experience to get the feedback, to see how your overwhelming or how you're underwhelming your clients so that you can make it better, which you will probably iterate the program three or four times in the first year before you even feel like super good, but you can go out and scale. I think people come out of school and do their first year and they're like, "I'm not at six figures yet. Why?" And I'm like, "Because that's not how it works. You're still working at the case- "

Kendra Perry: Yeah, you can't build a business in 90 days.

Lori Kennedy: ... Like, "Hello, you're still working at the case." Right?

Christine: Well, I pay for that.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, it's a really important conversation because I see a lot of coaches doing this where they spend six months to a year creating this program and spending all this money and time to make this perfect program, and they go to sell it and it doesn't sell or people take it and it doesn't work and then it's really frustrating. Right? It's really disheartening. I've actually been guilty that I did that with my first online program ever. I did all the wrong things.

Lori Kennedy: It's really upsetting. And part of that is because they just don't have the experience and the skillset creating a program. The program in and of itself isn't what sells the program. People come, even in my world too, they're like, "I tried to launch this thing and it didn't work, maybe I need to go and recreate the program." I'm like, "No, you need to learn how to sell."

Lori Kennedy: How would you know that the program sucks if you didn't have anybody go through it? That doesn't make any sense to me. It's not the program that sells the program, it's your ability to identify the person's pain and connect the program to that pain and to be able to say, "Here is how this is going to help you when nothing else has in the past." It's the ability to know how to use that language.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, and I feel that people, yeah, they get into business and instead of updating their business knowledge like, "Oh, I need another health certification or I should go to that school. I need to upgrade, take that course." And they just keep piling up these courses when really they actually ... You're right, they need to learn how to sell. They need to read a book on direct response copywriting, which everyone should if you take anything from this episode.

Lori Kennedy: Yeah. And I think the reason that they don't is because that's not what they signed up for.

Kendra Perry: Exactly.

Lori Kennedy: And rightfully so, none of us signed up for that. Except that's what's required.

Christine: Agreed.

Kendra Perry: It's a slap in the face, isn't it?

Christine: So for those of you who are listening and who are like, "Crap." I'm super proud because I know well, my smoothie represent recipes and I just finished all my blog posts. You just want to cry, don't, as you know we provide solutions. So Lori tell us a little bit about, you were afraid that you teach all of this. Walk us through that. I read the two quizzes or the two programs, the two main programs that you have. So tell us a little bit about those.

Lori Kennedy: Yeah. So the Wellness Business Academy is for you, if you don't yet have a signature program, if you've not created one, if you've not Beta tested it, if you've not created it in an automated scalable way. So before we can grow a business, we need something to use to grow it with and that would be your signature program. And so once that's done, then we move you into the 10K Success System, which is really about scaling, right? It's about getting that five figure a month revenue. It's about working on a lot of this mindset stuff to be able to show up as an authority, show up as a leader. It's paid traffic. It's a lot of those next level things that come after having the foundation, which is your signature program and the Beta test.

Christine: Love it. Yeah, absolutely love it. So where can people buy?

Lori Kennedy: We have an application process, specifically for the 10K Success System because it's not right for everybody, and we want to ... We protect our clients very much, we protect the culture that we're building inside of that community. I think the best place to go honestly would be my Instagram. I think there is ... If you go to my Instagram, which is at Lori Kennedy Inc, I'm sure you'll link to it in your show notes.

Christine: We will.

Lori Kennedy: In my bio there is an opportunity for you to schedule a brainstorming call with our success coaches. So it's a free call, it's a brainstorming call. If they feel like you're a good fit for other one, they'll let you know at the end of the call. And if that's something that you want to discuss, you can, otherwise, it's just really helpful to get on a call with our coaches so that you can see the gaps and where you need to improve. I think a lot of people have a hard time because they're not even sure where the gaps are in their skills. They just know that they're not gaining the momentum and attraction that they want.

Lori Kennedy: And so our priority and our responsibility is first and foremost before we even introduce you to anything, is to really help you to see where the breakdowns are so that ... Our solutions may or may not be right for you. And if they are, we'll obviously tell you. But I think either way it's so important to have people in your life to help you gain that clarity, to be able to understand ... It's the reason that I just joined another mastermind because we are growing, and I don't know what's going to break.

Lori Kennedy: And I know enough now to know that there is other people out there that can tell me. I don't want to ... if I can avoid the break, I'm going to pay for that. I'm going to pay a lot of money for someone to be able to say to me, "When you hit X, this is what will likely happen. So let's navigate against that now." I want that, right? So that's part of what we do, is if you want to get to five figures, here is what we need to have in place, otherwise you will want to quit because you will be tired. Right?

Kendra Perry: So for now it's awesome.

Lori Kennedy: Yeah.

Kendra Perry: Yeah. I love how much you're infusing the mindset stuff into it because it's so important and it's definitely something that I never knew. I didn't know I was going to have to like figure my shit out to be able to run a business. Like, it's crazy. Like I'm like ... I mean, it's amazing because I think it's made me a better human and I've learned so much about myself, but yeah, you really got to like figure your shit out.

Lori Kennedy: It's a super confronting.

Christine: It's tough but you're a better person for it, always. But you can never go back though people, so if you don't want to know ...

Lori Kennedy: You never go back.

Christine: You never go back.

Lori Kennedy: And it may be slightly hard to live in the world when you [inaudible 00:45:35]

Christine: Totally.

Lori Kennedy: It makes it hard to be amongst the people. But then you find your own people and you're good.

Kendra Perry: Exactly. You find your little crowd, which is much more genuine and more intense than anything, but yeah, a lot of people were just like, "Gosh, I will be fine." That's why I found you Christine, just so I can box you all day long. You're my therapist. Awesome. Well, thank you so much Lori. There was so many good gems in this, we really appreciate you being-

Lori Kennedy: Yeah, thank you. This is great.

Kendra Perry: ... on interview with us. So definitely check out Lori at Lori Kennedy Inc on Instagram. I follow you. I love following you, you have really good info there, great stories, so you guys should all follow her. And guys, if you love this episode, you got to let us know. Go to iTunes or wherever. I think you can leave a review on Spotify too, I don't even know. But go to iTunes, leave us a five star review and just let us know that you love this content so that we can keep putting it out there for you. That is the number one way you can support us and it only takes two minutes, probably not even.

Christine: Yeah, and feel free to follow us on Instagram, 360 Health Biz Podcast, and also to send us messages. Like, if you have any requests or anything you want us to talk about, you know we're a game for everything, just-

Kendra Perry: We're a game.

Christine: ... We will do that, so we're totally open for requests.

Kendra Perry: Awesome. Thanks guys. So we'll see you guys again in two weeks.

Lori Kennedy: Yeah.

Kendra Perry: Take care.

How Climate Change is a Factor in Lyme Disease with Dr. Darin Ingels

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Did that title get your attention? The rate at which Lyme has grown is exponential and every year it seems to be getting worse with no signs of slowing down. So what is causing this increase? The World Health Organization came out with a paper suggesting that climate change is one of the driving forces behind this due to warmer winters where the ticks aren't being killed off, so they are able to repopulate. YEAR ROUND.  This, along with many other factors is causing an influx of Lyme.  There is approximately 300,000 new cases of Lyme disease in the US and about 65,000 new cases in Europe. And those are REPORTED cases (remember Lyme is often misdiagnosed) so we are not seeing these numbers slowing down.

In this episode, we talk with Dr. Darin Ingels about the environmental factors playing a part in the increase of Lyme disease, plus treatments for Lyme, how to PROPERLY get tested for Lyme disease, and the two very unique indicators that one might have Lyme disease.

Darin got interested in Lyme when he developed symptoms of high fever, joint pain, migraines, numbness/tingling in 2002, just 3 weeks before opening his own practice. When he saw the bullseye rash on his leg, he knew that it could only be one thing – Lyme disease (hint: the bullseye rash is one of the two indicators of Lyme).

There is a long list of symptoms when it comes to Lyme which is why it’s called the great imitator. It looks like a lot of other things and is why it gets misdiagnosed frequently. It's just very easy to confuse it with something else. Some of the symptoms may include (but not limited to): joint pain, persistent headaches, unexplained fever, chills, swollen lymph nodes, persistent fatigue, numbness and tingling in your extremities, numbness or tingling on your skin, Bell's palsy (drooping of one side of your face), memory problems, coordination issues, balance problems, and/or behavior issues.

But there are two indicators that Dr. Ingels explained are unique to Lyme disease. The bullseye rash and migrating join pain. That means one day you could have pain in your left shoulder and the next day you have pain in your right knee. When you start to see this it’s best to test for Lyme. Oh and what makes Lyme even more fun is that only 35% of those with Lyme actually get the bullseye rash! We hope you sensed our sarcasm when we said it was fun…Lyme really seems to be a pain in everyone’s ass, or should we say in our joints..with the pain migrating constantly.

Tune in to hear Dr. Ingels discuss his struggles and successes with Lyme treatment, recommendations on labs to get properly tested and which diet is the BEST to follow for symptom improvements.

Dr. Ingels is a respected leader in natural medicine with more than 28 years experience in the healthcare field. He is Board certified in Integrated Pediatrics and a Fellow of the American Academy of Environmental Medicine. Dr. Ingels has been published extensively and is the author of “The Lyme Solution: A 5-Part Plan to Fight the Inflammatory Autoimmune Response and Beat Lyme Disease”, a comprehensive natural approach to treating Lyme disease. He specializes in Lyme disease, autism and chronic immune dysfunction. He uses diet, nutrients, herbs, homeopathy and immunotherapy to help his patients achieve better health.

Connect with Dr. Darin Ingels:
https://www.facebook.com/DarinIngelsND/
https://www.instagram.com/dariningelsnd/
https://twitter.com/dariningelsnd
https://www.youtube.com/dariningelsnd

Tools discussed in this episode:
Medical Diagnostics Lab
Gen X Laboratories
Armin Labs
International Lyme and Associated Disease Society
Fisher Wallace device

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TRANSCRIPT


Christine: Hello everyone and welcome to this episode of the 360 health biz podcasts. And today you have the beautiful and wonderful co-host is with the most is Kendra Perry and humble me, Christine Hansen, and we have a wonderful guest today, Dr. Darin Ingels. We're going to talk about Lyme. So we are super excited, lime not you know, the beautiful green fruit that you put into your Mojito but a disease, we're a little bit, I'm already feeling the summer over here so. But I'm super excited because we talk about this all the time, and we would like to know a lot more about it. So we think this is going to be a great episode for you guys out there too, and if you like our episodes, if you love it, then do the same thing as this wonderful, and express and Kendra is going to talk about because she left us a wonderful review.

Kendra: Yeah. So we have a five-star review from TM Narin, and I know who you are, and I really appreciate it. And the title of her review says, "I'm learning, and laughing." And then she says, "Great podcasts. I'm gearing up to start my online business, and I'm so happy to hear the tips from Kendra and Christine. What a great vibe. Love your energy ladies." I think that's kind of like our tagline, learning and laughing because that was pretty much of what we talk about. Good content, but we make a lot of stupid jokes along the way. We kind of like to take life too seriously. Right? That's how we roll, so that's pretty exciting.

Christine: All right. And so let me introduce it a little bit more to our wonderful guests. And if you want to know what we all look like, then don't forget to go to our website 360 health biz podcast.com and you can check out each episode and it has our video on that too.

Christine: So, and especially today, we're all pretty today for once. There's a couple of that I don't want you to look at, but this one you can. Let me introduce you to the beautiful, Dr. Ingles. So, Dr. Ingles is a respected leader in natural medicine with more than 26 years of experience in the healthcare field. He's a board certified in integrative for pediatrics and fellow of the American and the Academy of Environmental Medicine. Dr. Ingles has been published extensively and is the author of the Lyme solution a five-part plan to fight the inflammatory autoimmune response and beat Lyme disease. And I know for a fact that this has been published Internationally, so I still need to read it, but I'm super excited and I have it, I bought it. It's a comprehensive natural approach to treat Lyme disease and who doesn't want that. He specializes in the disease, autism and chronic immune dysfunction. And he uses diet, nutrients, herbs, homeopathy, and immunotherapy to help his patients achieve better health. So it's totally down our alley. So welcome. Do I have to say, Dr. Ingle? So can I call you Darren?

Dr, Darren: Darren will be fine. That's what my mother calls me.

Christine: Okay good. perfect.

Kendra: Welcome to the show. Darren, we're so excited to have you.

Dr, Darren: Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Christine: All right. So we know that you started your career, and your story would just be chatted about it just before. Is that you got interested in Lyme kind of because you had to, right?

Dr, Darren: Yeah. I developed Lyme disease back in 2002 when I was living in Connecticut. Ironically it was about three weeks before I was set to open my own practice. So as I was getting geared up, getting all the furniture and the fixtures, and everything in order, I started getting very sick. I had a very high fever and joint pain. I felt like my back was broken, a migraine headache, the worst I've ever had in my life. Numbness, tingling, the whole gamut of symptoms. And I had meningitis when I was in college. I thought I had meningitis again. And as I was getting ready to go to the hospital, someone had noticed I had a big bullseye rash on the back of my leg. And I said, oh, okay, well now I know what it is. So I underwent treatment. And after a few days, I have actually felt fine. But since I was opening my own business, I was doing everything, very long hours.

Dr, Darren: And after about eight months of keeping up with that schedule, I started to relapse, started getting joint pains again and started getting the [00:22:24]Thyropathy. So I said, I did this before and it was fine. So I went back on treatment, which at the time was Doxycyline, and it didn't help. And then I changed the antibiotics, and it didn't help. And I went through nine months of changing antibiotic protocols and actually got a lot worse. So I lost 30 pounds. My Gut was a mess and I just really wasn't feeling well. So I was fortunate that I found a doctor in New York City, his name is doctor Jiang, he's a Chinese medical doctor and herbalists, and he started treating me with Chinese herbs.

Dr, Darren: And really after about three weeks of following that protocol, I was 80 85% improved. So it was kind of my reminder that I need to go back to my nature pathic roots, and really start taking better care of myself, eat better. I followed his protocol for quite a long time, and it took about two years after that time to feel like I got my health back, but eventually got to the point where I was living symptom-free. So I just really started applying what I was doing to myself, to my patients and sound that they were improving faster than what I'd been doing before.

Christine: Kendra you were going to say something, I think.

Kendra: Yeah, I was just going to say, it's interesting because all the people that I've talked to who have Lyme like, yeah, they go the antibiotic route. And I feel like a lot of them aren't aware that there might be a different way. And so what you're saying is that you went 100% natural after you kind of gave up on antibiotics and that was able to actually get rid of the Lyme infection. Correct.

Dr, Darren: Right. And now having done this for 20 years, I've seen so many people who've gone down that path, and for people who've gone down that path. If it's worked for you, great. What I'm saying is the people who've tried that path and it hasn't worked and they ended up worse for the wear. So I just want people to know that there are other options and for people who've studied herbs, you now know how powerful they can be. But in my world now, Lyme treatment is so much more than just about killing the bug.

Dr, Darren: It's really a comprehensive approach to the person, and the way I think of Lyme is that it really just becomes a catalyst for all these other things that happen in the body so it can disrupt your immune system, it can disrupt your endocrine system. And we start seeing thyroid problems, adrenal problems, reproductive hormone problems, all these other types of immune issues. So it's not really just about killing the bug, that's now actually a very small part of the treatment. It's really about addressing all these other factors that get disrupted when you get exposed to Lyme. So when I wrote my book, it was a sort of a top to bottom. How do we go through everything and trying to get the body and better working order? It's really ultimately about fixing the terrain.

Christine: So let me just ask you a question to get back to basics. So Lyme, I knew that there was Lyme disease, right? Also because I see it in my clients, or my clients come to me and they told me that they've been diagnosed, but that they are cured. And I use air quotes here because they did the antibiotic regimen. So Lyme, what I knew about it is just the tick is the first thought that I have, being bitten by a tick and getting Lyme. Right. I thought. Okay, so the tick bites you, and it's something in there that is then infecting you. So it's not a virus, it's a bug. I didn't even know that.

Dr, Darren: Yeah. So Lyme is actually a bacteria, it's called Borrelia. And there is the first strain that we identified back in the 1980s, early eighties it was called Borrelia Burgdorferi. We have now learned that they're about a hundred strains in the North American, about 300 strains worldwide of Borrelia. We don't even know how many of those strains actually can cause Lyme disease. Our best guesses that there's probably somewhere between 10 and 12 that seem to do most of the damage. And what's interesting is that if you go to different parts of the world, the strain of Borrelia that's more dominant is different. So the strains we see here in North America are different than the strains we see in Europe, which are different than the strains they see in Africa and so forth.

Dr, Darren: So there are different variations of Borrelia around the world. This speaks a little bit to why testing becomes so problematic because the testing out there really is only looking for Borrelia Burgdorferi. So unless you start ordering tests for these other strains of Borrelia, and again, we don't even have testing for really all of them. It's very easy that if you happen to get a different strain of Borrelia that it doesn't show up on the test, your test looks negative and the doctor dismisses you and says, "Oh yeah, you don't have Lyme disease." Well, it's possible that your test is negative only because you've got a different strain of Borrelia.

Kendra: Wow, that's so interesting. So how common is Lyme disease? And I'm guessing it's probably hard to know for certain if a lot of people are getting misdiagnosed, but I feel like how I perceive Lyme is something that's very rare. It doesn't happen very much. But is it may be more prevalent than I think it is.

Dr, Darren: Well, I think it certainly depends on where you live in the world. When I was living in Connecticut and the Northeast part of the United States, the central Midwest part of the United States are endemic for Lyme. We know that's where the bulk of the cases come from, but it's now been reported in all 50 states in the United States. We now have about 300,000 new cases of Lyme disease in the US and about 65,000 new cases in Europe. That's what's reported. We know it's unreported, so I don't know that we really have a true idea about how many people actually get it every year. But I mean in reality, we are talking about millions and millions of people worldwide living with Lyme disease. And we do know from the World Health Organization that that number keeps increasing.

Dr, Darren: So the rate at which Lyme has grown is really been somewhat exponential and every year it gets worse, and really no signs of slowing down. I think the World Health Organization came out with a paper suggesting that climate change really is one of the driving forces because no ticks aren't being killed off, there. so they are able to repopulate. When I was living in Connecticut, we kind of dependent on our cold winters to kill off the ticks. Well, we've had pretty warm winters and the ticks don't go away, and there's even a couple of studies that show that the techs can get under the leaves and survive the snow. So-

Christine: It's so creepy.

Dr, Darren: A lot of the natural predators for ticks like possums, that population is dwindling. So the things that would normally get rid of ticks aren't getting rid of ticks and the tick population is able to expand. And then we've got some other research showing that birds are carrying those ticks from one region to another. So I think that's why we see over the last couple of decades, it used to be sort of that Northeast corner of the US, well now it's down the entire Eastern Seaboard. It's on the West coast, and we just see it pushing inward. So it's just one of those things where we're seeing more and more cases. But again, I don't think we have a really good handle on how many people are living with Lyme. But it's a lot.

Kendra: Yeah. We had Dr. Evan Hirsch, I'm the show a couple of weeks ago, and you know him oversees of course as well as a part of the mindset community that I talked about before and he said it's tricky because a lot of people are misdiagnosed. So because the symptoms are so tricky, sometimes they are often misdiagnosed as being having arthritis, or any joint pains, or anything like that. So can you talk a little bit more about that because I think it might be interesting that, if you see a client, or a patient and you kind of see their symptoms, but you also know that it's not necessarily what you would think at first sight, and why that might actually be Lyme because there're some particularities to it that way.

Dr, Darren: Yeah. Well, we call Lyme the great imitator or the great mimic. It looks like a lot of other things and again I think this is part of why it gets misdiagnosed quite frequently. It's just very easy to confuse it with something else, there're two things that are very characteristic to Lyme that is really unique, and we don't think of any other condition. One is the bullseye rash. There is no other condition that we know of the causes that Bullseye rash, there's a lot of other skin rashes of course, and you can have other Lyme rashes that's not a bullseye rash, but when you see that target lesion or bull's eye rash, that's a pretty telltale sign again. We've not identified anything else that mimics that.

Dr, Darren: So the bullseye rash is one. The other thing that's very unique to Lyme is what we call migratory joint pain. So one day it's my right shoulder, the next day it's my left knee, and then it's my right ankle and then it's my left elbow. When you start to see the joint pain that seems to kind of migrate throughout your body. Again, there's no other condition that we know of that causes that. There's a lot of other conditions that cause inflammatory arthritis but not that migratory nature. So those two signs, when I hear about that from someone that's a big red flag that Lyme is probable, beyond that the symptoms can be often quite vague. But we talked about joint pain, persistent headaches, fever that's unexplained, chills, swollen lymph nodes, persistent fatigue, numbness and tingling in your extremities, or anywhere in your skin. You can get Bell's palsy, which is kind of drooping of one side of your face. Again, memory problems, coordination issues, balance problems, behavior issues.

Dr, Darren: We see that a lot in children. People will start getting what I kind of called newly acquired dyslexia. Where they start transposing letters and numbers. People complain their handwriting gets worse. I will see sleep problems its taken a lot of endocrine problems. People all of a sudden become hyperthyroid for no reason. So it's a pretty wide range of symptoms. I think for me when I hear about things that are neurological and arthritic, that combination together for me again is a red flag that I investigate, and at least do the testing to see if Lyme is part of the problem. Because again, I think there are very few things that cause neurological problems and arthritic problems. Lyme and other infectious agents have the capacity to do that. But Lyme certainly at the top of that list.

Kendra: Let me ask you this. Do you get Lyme will you always see that bull's eye or does sometimes-

Christine: That was my question.

Kendra: We're sharing a brain, Christine,

Dr, Darren: I know it's really interesting actually. If you read the CDC website, they say something like 70 to 80% of people who get infected get that bullseye rash. But the research does not corroborate that at all. And the actual incidence of getting that rash is probably somewhere around 30%. There is a lot of variation in the research I've read anywhere from 20 to 40%. So we'll say 30% is an average. So realistically, less than half the people who get infected get that rash. So again, for people who get that rash, that's a pretty reliable marker. They'd been exposed. But the absence of the rash certainly doesn't exclude the possibility of Lyme. And I think that's the bulk of the cases that I see, is people have no recollection of a tick bite, no recollection of a bullseye rash, but they all of a sudden start developing all these mysterious symptoms, and they've had a thousand tests and everything keeps coming back normal again. That's my red flag that we should investigate Lyme or some other type of tickborne illness.

Christine: And there are other things that can come with the Lyme other than the Borrelia. Right? There's like the co-infections.

Dr, Darren: Yeah. There's a lot we call co-infections and I swear every time I go to a Lyme conference, that list gets longer. So we know like a lot of the ticks up the wing when they found that something like 33 to 37% of those ticks carries something else other than Lyme. So things like Bartonellemia, which is a bacteria, Babesia which is a parasite, Anaplasma, which is a bacteria, rocky mountain spotted fever or Ehrlicia. One of the latest ones is called plasmids virus. It's actually a virus. Obviously, it can be very deadly, caused a few deaths over the last few years between New York, Massachusetts.

Dr, Darren: So it's very challenging when you've got a patient who has these collections symptoms. I would say, well, what do you test for? And we try and do as comprehensive testing as possible. Fortunately, we do have labs out there that provide that, but you really kind of have to take a good detailed history, really know what's going on with the patient, where their exposure has been, where they've been traveling to. That might help narrow down what you need to look at. But in reality, when I test people, I'm not just testing for Lyme. We're going through the gamut of a lot of the common co-infections as well.

Christine: Okay. So talk a little bit more about that because that's where Kendra and my eyes are lightening up writing the tests. So give specifics where exactly, which labs do you prefer because I'm thinking we talked about this before like we love some book, we don't even test for it, the doctors just send them straight to Germany because there are more specialized facilities there. But is there like a way where I'd say, I have a client coming to me, and they say I've been tested but it was negative, which I'm sure it pretty much was it, I'm pretty sure some of my clients still had that. What do I do? Like, do I have to tell them to ask the doctor to send me a prescription with exactly the strains. Is there an International lab where could send it to? Is there one in the states where I could see to find something? How do you do it? How do you test in?

Dr, Darren: Yeah. So, again, depending on where you live, sort of dictates for me which labs might be best because not all labs are available in all areas of the world. So for those of us living in the United States, I use a lab called Medical Diagnostic Labs in New Jersey. I like them because they offer Lyme testing and co-infection testing, but for here they bill insurance so for people it's nice that their insurance actually pays for something. So I like them. Also If you ever have a tick on you, you can take the tick and you can send it to them, and they'll take the tick, so you can find out if the tick can cure Lyme or any of those co-infections. Gen X is another great lab in Palo Alto, California.

Dr, Darren: They offer the gamut of Lyme and co-infection testing. They're a great lab, they just don't bill insurance outside of Medicare, which is our national insurance. If you lived across the pond, in your neck of the woods. Armin lab is a great lab, I know a lot of people in Germany use Armin. So Armin labs is a little bit different because all the other labs out there are doing antibody testing. [in audible]Our testing. So PCRs looking for fragments of the DNA of the organism. Armin lab is actually looking at a cytokine response. So it's actually looking at a different part of the immune system. So one of the advantages of that lab is that if someone has any kind of immune issue or immune deficiency where maybe they don't have a good antibody response, the Armin labs isn't looking at antibodies.

Dr, Darren: It's looking at cytokines. So you can still have an appropriate cytokine response and not an antibody response might still pick it up. And I've had some patients that have done testing through some of the labs here in the US. Their previous lab was negative. Now they do Armin and they're able to identify some of these things. So Lyme is a clinical diagnosis. I think it's really important. People understand that the piece of paper just there to kind of help validate our suspicion. But we treat people, we don't treat pieces of paper. So if all these tests come back negative and we've ruled everything else out and people have the symptoms of Lyme, I would still treat them. I think every practitioner finds the labs that they like to work with you. That's what works for you.

Dr, Darren: I mean I think they all offer good testing because if you look at the sensitivity and specificity of these labs versus just the run of the mill reference lab, it's much better. But I think between, MDL, Gen X, Armin, those are the three I probably use the most. Again, there are other labs out there that offer testing, so find what works for you. But what I would suggest is that don't just rely on your regular reference lab for their test kits just don't seem to have the sensitivity that we want or specificity to give you reliable results. And I've had plenty of patients over the years that went to quest, and a lab corp and got a test done. It was completely negative. We ran it through a lab that specializes in Lyme and now it lights up like a Christmas tree. So there is some validity in using a lab that does better testing.

Kendra: Are you familiar with the vibrant wellness tickborne panel? I've had a few people kind of pointed me in that direction.

Dr, Darren: Yeah, it's pretty new. They've only been really in that profile I think for a handful of months, in fact, I just got a work report yesterday on that patient. On paper, it seems to be fine. I don't know what technology they're using, what test kits they use. I haven't investigated it yet, on paper it seemed to look fine. I was a microbiologist before I was a doctor, actually used to do Lyme testing for a living. So it's changed a lot since I was in the lab 30 years ago. But I do have a pretty good sense of lab testing, and how things are validated. Some of the tests I'm a little bit concerned about is some of the DNA technology. There's a couple of labs out there that do purely DNA.

Dr, Darren: I think there are some inherent problems with that, where there's at least a couple of labs that I'm not sure that they go through the process of validating their primers. So with DNA technology, the way it's done is that you've got a thing called the primer. What a primer does is it tags, a certain part of the genetic sequence that says this is Lyme or this is Babesia. This is whatever you're looking for. Well if you can imagine there's a lot of overlapping genetic code in microbes. So whatever you've tagged is actually specific to that organism. So there's a whole process you have to go through to validate that primer.

Dr, Darren: And if you use unvalidated primers, it's very possible that you think you're finding Lyme, but you could actually finding something else. So if the lab doesn't really spend the time and money and use validated primers, your results would be speculative. So I'm a little hesitant to use some of the labs that use. Pure DNA technology just for that reason. And I've seen some reports come back where they come back testing positive for everything. They have Lyme, and Bartonella, and Babesia, and are looking at Anaplasma. Well, just realistically I think it's highly likely [inaudible 00:21:33] carry all of that.

Dr, Darren: I mean it's not impossible, but it seems unlikely. So yeah. I think I'd rather stick with some of the labs that don't necessarily do only that. That's something you could use in conjunction with some of the other things, but looking at the immune response tells us a little bit about activity, tells us a little bit about how your immune system is responding. So again, at the end of the day, Lyme is ultimately a clinical diagnosis. You have to use your best clinical judgment. But I think we all feel better when we've got something on paper that helps support our treatment because of course, we don't want to put people through unnecessary treatment either.

Christine: Totally. That would be my next question actually. So obviously if you want to read about the whole treatment people have to buy a book, that is obviously the first thing. But if we would just to condense it a little bit and say, okay, through my journey I've learned that this and this, this may be is really key, and it's something that has been really helpful to my clients. So let's even say if I have someone here in Europe and I think I have a suspicion and I'm just like, okay I want to put a part of the protocol, I really want to focus in the Lyme as well because I think that is a reason why you're feeling the way you do. Because I mean Kendra and I, we both have our niches but in the end, very often the way that our clients feel doesn't have to do with our niche actually.

Kendra: Yeah, totally.

Christine: It doesn't have anything to do with our niche, it's just a side effect of the underlying cause. Right. So what would be a couple of things that you'd say to practitioners, if the suspected, even if you cannot test for it at this moment, here is one or two things that you can try with your clients and see if it makes a difference? And if it does, that might be a very well indicate that you should dig deeper into Lyme.

Dr, Darren: Well, I think initially you got to go very basic. And the first thing I always look at with my patients is the gut. The gut is so critically important for your overall health, and since up to 80% of your immune function that comes from the gut, if that's not functioning well, everything else you do, it's going to be harder to get the results you want. So I think just very fundamentally, go back, make sure everything in the gut is working the way it's supposed to. Are people digesting their food, assimilating their food. Is there any element of gut inflammation? So I think you can start with that foundational stuff. And of course, there's a lot of nutrients to help support gut repair is that whether you're using probiotics are glutamine or digestive enzymes or butyrate. It's kind of whatever your patient needs to take that. So I think between focusing on the gut and diet. Diet is enormous and I can't sort of understate how important that is for patients because I've seen plenty of people who take antibiotics, or if they're doing something very proactive to treat the infection, but they're not making a lot of progress, and we kind of go back through their diet and their gut and it's like, well their gut is mess. They're eating like crap. And you're not really that surprised since you're not getting better.

Dr, Darren: So I talk a lot in my book about specifically an alkaline diet and an alkaline diet for people who aren't familiar. It's just eating foods that support your tissue, being really in a more alkaline state except for your skin, your stomach, your bladder. And for women, the vaginal area, which is very acidic to protect against outside invaders, the rest of your tissues, pretty alkaline. So when you eat foods that really break down into a more alkaline state that allows those cells to function the way they're supposed to. So all the enzymes work the way they're supposed to. And surprising when I was writing the book, I was doing all this research looking on an alkaline diet. And of course, I've known about it forever. And there are books that have been written for decades. But surprisingly, I only found three studies on an alkaline diet. It's not something actually been very well researched at all. Apparently-

Christine: Yeah, I say that all the time.

Dr, Darren: I was really surprised. Now, however, the three studies that were done were all very positive and they found it helps facilitate tissue repair, nerve repair, bone growth. So there's a lot of positive things that happen by following an alkaline diet and having tried different diets with my Lyme patients over the years. I mean we've tried, you know, Autoimmune Paleo, and we've tried Keto and we've tried Candida Diet and so forth. I found that this diet is the most sustainable and easy to follow, people will actually stick with this.

Dr, Darren: And I think if we kind of go back to our true Paleo forefathers, this is the way they truly ate, we mostly a plant-based diet. We killed when we could, we did eat animal protein but it wasn't the bulk of our diet and of course, we didn't eat junk food, and we didn't eat anything that was sort of came in farming much later. So we really try and stay away from foods that are very acid forming in the body. So that's dairy products, that's junk food, that's coffee, things of that nature. So the coffee is the one that kills everybody because they love coffee and-

Christine: Tell me about it.

Dr, Darren: I can speak tone it-

Kendra: Get right down right before this call.

Dr, Darren: No, when I was in the throes of Lyme, I was a regular coffee drinker and I found I would drink coffee my neuropathy would flare up, and if it got worse I would stop. It would get better. I started again and we get worse. I mean, so I tried it a few times and it was pretty consistent. Even just a couple of steps was enough that would flare me. So this concept that, well it's only a little bit, well it depends on your sensitivity level and I think a little for some people is too much. So I tell people when they start this just tell the line. I know it kind of sucks, but follow the program and if you can stick with it you're going to get the best results out of it. And now realistically over time as people improve, they can be a bit more flexible with the Diet. But when you're initially starting it, it's better just to kind of stick to the program in that way that you're going to get the most benefit from it. So I think if people really start focusing on diet gut first, then you can start moving into more therapies that get into actually treating an active infection. And again, I'm a big proponent of using herbs. I mean, I've probably written one antibiotic prescription in a decade. I just don't find the need for it.

Dr, Darren: I think herbs are extremely powerful if you know how to use them in the right way. And fortunately there's a lot of companies out there that make really great herbal products, so you don't have to put everything together on your own. And if you're trained in herbs, you can use companies that put these formulas together that really are effective at treating Lyme. All these co-infections, unlike when you use antibiotics, you have to know what your treating because the protocol for Lyme might be different from Bartonella, which might be different than but Babesia and so forth. The beauty of the herbs is that a lot of the herbs kind of cover all of it. So you have to make a very little variation with all of the co-infections.

Dr, Darren: There are some cases where we know these herbs a little bit more effective against Babesia, this one's maybe a little bit better against Bartonella. But by and large, I was at a conference with Dr. Lee Cowden and he's got a whole protocol and the heat developed with neutral medics. And he kept talking about a lot of these herbs being keep herbs, k e e p, keep herbs. Keeper herbs and I finally asked him, I said, I don't really need to keep herbs. because well it kills everything except people. I'm like, okay. I guess that makes sense. So a lot of these herbs they're good against bacteria and viruses and fungi and parasites. So again, we're covering kind of a pretty broad base, but what I like about the herbs too is that we don't see the same level of gut disruption that you get with antibiotics.

Christine: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I feel bad for Lyme people because some of the people I've spoken to, they've spent a year on like all these antibiotics and you're just like, oh my God. Like, you're sure, maybe you can get rid of the Lyme, but like what is done to your system? Like you're going to have to now recover from antibiotic use. Right?

Dr, Darren: Well exactly. And I think when I was doing some of the research and my professional experience, people need to understand that when you're on antibiotics, of course, you're compromising your normal microbiome. And we always think of the gut. But remember your microbiome is more than your gut microbiome. You've got the skin microbiome, bladder microbiome. Yeah, we've got a microbiome everywhere now. So it's disrupting that whole ecology of your system. We also know that a lot of antibiotics damage your mitochondria most of the time patients I work with are tired. Well, it's going to be really hard getting your energy back if your mitochondrial damaged, that's the powerhouse of the cell is literally what creates energy.

Dr, Darren: So between wiping out your microbiome, disrupting your mitochondria. We have to look at the risk-benefit ratio. And I think here are the risk really outweigh the benefits. And when you look at the research, there's a lot of studies that show that when you've got chronic Lyme anyway, antibiotics just really aren't that effective. You might get a little bit of benefit, and I've seen this clinically, the people they're on antibiotics are feeling a little bit better the minute they come off antibiotics within days to weeks, they're back to square one. So you really haven't accomplished anything long term or there's just no benefit at all. I mean, I'll give you an example. I have one patient, I was working with a who had been working with another practitioner who's very well known in the Lyme world and uses a lot of antibiotics. She had been on antibiotics for 12 years continuously.

Kendra: Oh my God, how do you survive-

Dr, Darren: Has been hospitalized three times because of the antibiotics-[crosstalk 00:30:34].

Kendra: My body was a rack like, I couldn't tolerate them. I had an allergic reaction and then going into shock. So now we're going to use that again. But it destroyed my gut. Like I wasn't already just say no.

Dr, Darren: Considering the diversity of your gut in particular even if you take probiotics, it's not possible to repopulate everything that comprises your gut. It's a drop in the bucket. So when you look at animal studies, when they give an animal at least a mouse, one dose of antibiotics, it can take up to six months to repopulate the rack gut. So what happens for humans when we're on for weeks and months at a time or longer. This particular person was hospitalized three times because of the antibiotics because they were so toxic. So I hear this from people who've been on antibiotics, and they've done well if that's been your path, great. But again, I'm seeing the people where that hasn't been the case and they've actually not done well on antibiotics.

Dr, Darren: So, that's where I'm kind of coming from. But for people who even have acute Lyme, I've treated with herbs at works perfectly fine. We are able to get people through their acute stages again without causing a lot of damage to the gut or the Mitochondria. So at this point, I'm just not sure where the antibiotics fit in. My one patient that I did right antibiotics for, this particular person had a very longstanding case of Lyme. I actually use the lab called Fry labs. So Fry lab is very interesting. Stephen Fry is the medical director, he started doing a lot of microscopy and then what they do is take your blood, and they look under a microscope. And what's really interesting about it is that he's finding a lot of BioFilm in people's blood who've been diagnosed with Lyme.

Dr, Darren: BioFilm is not Borrelia. What he's finding is yeast, fungi. So it's almost like, the Lyme sets the stage that yeast becomes more problematic, but unless people aren't getting classic Yeast Infections. I mean, they're not getting itchy and for women vaginal yeast infections, oral thrush. They're having other types of problems, so we know that just no yeast can be much more difficult to kill than bacteria. It's a more complex organism and if it's varied in BioFilm, it may be even more challenging. So there is an antibiotic protocol of helping to break down BioFilm, get rid of the yeast. And the antibiotics I prescribed were actually more for the BioFilm. And then we used a Doxycyclin combination with an antifungal and these patients actually been responding very well. Having tried a lot of other natural things for a long time that really didn't provide any benefit. But I think in his case the Lyme was really the lesser part of the problem. It was probably this deep-rooted yeast that never had really been addressed. But that's my one case of antibiotics in a decade so. Fortunately, those people do pretty well with herbs.

Christine: Yeah. And we always say there's a time and place for everything, right? It's not about beating ourselves up if you need it, you need it. So Kendra and I whenever we interview people, we want to learn so much more. Right? So we're like, now I want to become an expert in this. I need to learn everything fast here. It's just to do about like we have to kind of submit. But if we have someone, where we really acutely suspect that they have Lyme, I don't have the energy at a one to read up on everything that has to do with Lyme. So how do you refer out? So would we tell them, for example, to connect with you? Is there like a community where we could say, check out this website and you will find a practitioner that is reputable in helping you with Lyme? How do you work with your patients?

Dr, Darren: Well, again, I have people who call me from all over the world and they're looking for someone local to work with. Certainly here on North America, there's a group called ILADS, the International Lyme and Associated Disease Society. And they do have doctors around the world that have members, so people who are part of this group have gone through more extensive training, online diagnosis, and treatment. Now most of the doctors who go to that training, they do use antibiotics as part of their treatment. There are some of those practitioners that do practice a bit more like me and focus more on natural substances, but at least you'll get something where most doctors tend to dismiss people who have Lyme so they can go to the ILADS website.

Dr, Darren: They don't post the list of doctors on the website, but you can email them and then they'll send you whomever you say, Hey, I live in Toronto or New York, and then they'll say, "No, these are people we know who are in the area." Again, I keep a very short list of just people I personally know whom I think they do a really nice job of treating Lyme, people are always welcome to contact my office and I can at least try and see if I know someone in the area. I do work remotely with people so people are really in an area where they just can't find anyone. Fortunately for the kinds of things we're doing, we can do remotely if it's about giving you guidance on diets and nutrition and herbs, that's done pretty easily through that format.

Christine: That's what I wanted to hear.

Kendra: I have a question for you, so the few clients I've had who've had Lyme and they want to work with me anyways. What I've noticed is that when I put them through a protocol and I do a lot of like gut stuff, I'm really big into mineral testing. They don't respond well like anyone else responds. They seem to be highly reactive. Like every time you try to give them something, they have this like crazy reaction and we just whittled down what they can eat and what they can take in. At some point you're like, I don't know what to do anymore. Why is that?

Dr, Darren: Yeah. There's something about being exposed to Lyme that makes a lot of people very hypersensitive to their world. All of a sudden they do have food allergies, they become sensitive to mold, and pollen, and dust, and chemicals. I can only imagine that we've got some research that when you get exposed to Lyme, it triggers really an autoimmune kind of problem. Well that TH2 pathway, T helper cell 2 that drives autoimmunity is the same pathway that drives allergy. So I think that by sort of up-regulating that part of the immune system, you're sort of accidentally developing all these allergies and sensitivities that you didn't have before. And I've seen that pretty consistently in my population as well. So in that case, again, it's really about going back and being very simple and very basic. You can't go in and throw the kitchen sink at these folks.

Dr, Darren: You have to start very slow with everything. So whether its herbs or any supplement, start small work your way up, you have to establish tolerance first. Once you've established tolerance, then you can start increasing the dose. But for those people, in particular, I love Tri-Salts. It's probably my favorite supplement. It's a combination of sodium, potassium and calcium bicarbonate, and the bicarbonates something we've been using an environmental medicine for 60 years or longer.

Dr, Darren: What we know with bicarbonate is that's an alkalizing agent. So when you alkalize the body, you down-regulate that inflammatory response and allergic response. I mean, I've had kids having asthma attacks that parents can stop it by giving their child Alka Seltzer gold or Tri-Salts every hour. So we know that it has this capacity to do that. So for people who are constantly reacting to their world, this is just an inexpensive, easy way to start help down regulating that response so that they can just tolerate things better. Because you're going to have a hard time, with a lot of therapies if they don't tolerate it. So this is just a really nice way to kind of set the base to get them not so reactive. And then you can start layering in your other things as you feel like they tolerate it.

Kendra: So that was potassium bicarbonate.

Dr, Darren: Well Tri-Salts as a combination of sodium, potassium, and calcium bicarbonate there's actually two companies that make Tri-Salts. One uses sodium, potassium, and calcium. The other one uses sodium, potassium, and magnesium bicarbonates. So it's really for the bicarbonate more than the minerals attached to it. The amount of calcium, magnesium, potassium you get is relatively small. It's really more for the bicarbonate.

Christine: So that basically in effect helps break down the BioFilm and make them less reactive. Is that what you're saying?

Dr, Darren: No, it probably has very little do with the BioFilm. We don't exactly know. It's probably more about alkalizing the body and shifting the way the cell functions. But we've been using this for years and environmental medicine and we just know clinically it helps make people less reactive, reduces inflammation. Like, if someone tells me they went into Yankee candle shop, and they started getting a headache from the scent, I'd say try taking Tri-Salts every hour, and then their headache goes away. So does has seems to have some impact on down regulating that immune response. But beyond that, I mean no one, as far as I know, has ever done any research on it.

Christine: So interesting. I'm like blown away. You have like all these different levers in your head going like, okay, do this and this connection, this connection. So yeah,

Dr, Darren: The cheap way around that too is Arm and Hammer Baking Soda, Baking Soda sodium bicarbonate. We know the potassium by carbonate is more effective than sodium bicarbonate, but in a pinch, most people keep that yellow box in their fridge. So if somebody needed something, and they didn't have access, they can just pull out, take a little bit of that powder out of the box, mixing some water and start drinking. It doesn't taste great, but it does the job.

Christine: And so you could use it like an as needed. If somebody is having some flare up or reaction to something like you could try it every hour as needed, and it would reduce that response.

Kendra: Okay. That's so super cool.

Christine: That's going to be really helpful for some of my people.

Kendra: For sure.

Dr, Darren: Cheap and easy. I'm all for it.

Kendra: I like it. Definitely.

Dr, Darren: Well, people with Lyme they spend so much money on treatments. It's nice to have something that's inexpensive, easy to do, accessible. So this is a kind of a staple in my practice. Most of my patients end up on Tri Salt at some point just as a way of kind of down-regulating that inflammatory response.

Christine: I love it. Definitely.

Kendra: Interesting. All right. What haven't we talked about? We've covered a lot.

Christine: This is really good. My brain is starting to like whop.

Dr, Darren: Well, I think the other thing I would add that's important for people listening to this is, again we're thinking about the person as a whole. We have to really look at lifestyle as well. I think it gets overlooked a lot. And the mind-body connection is horribly important. When people have had any kind of chronic illness, it's very easy to get caught in the mire of not feeling well every day. And I think we spend very little time helping people with their mental aspects of dealing with a chronic illness. So I'm a big advocate for doing a few things to help improve that. One is to make sure that you have a support network there for you. And what ends up happening is that even if you've got family and friends, people say, "Oh how you feeling today Darren?

Dr, Darren: The knee jerk response is great." And deep down you're like, no, actually I feel pretty horrible. And you want to be nice, you want to be polite, you don't really think people want to know the truth. And so it's really hard sometimes when you're not feeling well to be able to share that even with some of your closest friends and family. So it's nice to have kind of an independent third party that can be part of your team, where you can just go and unload and be honest and it's okay. So whether it's a therapist support group you're involved with there's a lot of avenues to do that. But I think it's important that people have that space that they can really unload and be open about everything and not feel like they're burdening other people because again, your mind and bodies are very much connected, and it's just human nature to get caught up in that. So to have that safety net, I think it's very helpful. In addition, I think making sure that we get good sleep.

Dr, Darren: Christine this is right up your alley. The most people see once they get exposed to Lyme, and they may have been great sleepers before, but now they're terrible sleepers, whether it's difficulty falling asleep, staying asleep again with all the research out there on the importance of getting that deep restorative sleep. That's when neurons repair themselves. That's when the rest of your tissue repairs itself. How are you going to heal a damaged brain or a damaged joint, if you never get that deep sleep, and you're just getting under the radar and we know that a lot of the sleep medicines out there kind of get you under the radar but don't necessarily get you deep sleep. We have a lot of natural ways of okay ... We could have a whole another podcast just on sleep, but it's-

Christine: Actually, we've never done that.

Kendra: We should do that. Great idea.

Dr, Darren: Sleep and chronic illness. Then they go hand in hand and not just winding.

Kendra: No need to view absolutely.

Dr, Darren: But if you think about biologically this is where your body repairs itself and the more that you miss of that, the harder it is to feel well. Again, I know for my sleep, I mean I was never a great sleeper before I had Lyme but definitely, after Lyme, I became a much worst sleeper and with the interesting paradox here is that you're bone tired during the day, and you think you would just be exhausted. The night would come and you would just be zonked out, and then you're kind of in this tired wired state. So you've got this adrenal dysfunction, messing with your circadian rhythm, so you're not sleeping well, you're not sleeping deeply, but you're exhausted all day and it just becomes a vicious cycle. So my feeling is whatever you need to do to get good quality sleep.

Dr, Darren: And I think for most Americans anyway, a lot of it's about, put down the iPad make sure that when you're getting ready to go to bed, you're disengaging from all that stimulating activity. So I tell people an hour, and a half to two hours before you actually want to go to bed, no electronics, read a book by the candles, take a bath, do something that's actually going to get your brain in that right state. I've actually started using a thing called the Fisher Wallace device, which is a little machine that you clip to your ears, and it basically sends a wavelength through your brain that helps sort of down-regulated and turns it off. So for some people something like that can be helpful in it, do saying-

Kendra: I want that now I need it.

Christine: I can see like reminds me of the hot Ma thing. What is it that, yeah,

Dr, Darren: Actually, I just got it right here. This is a Fisher Wallace device.

Christine: Nice. And tell me what's it called Fisher?

Dr, Darren: Fisher Wallace. It's brand spanking new. I got my own one right here. Since there is a video podcast, I'll just get a quick show of what it is. This is it. It's really simple. It's just a little box, and it's got some wires on it. Then you can see these pads, but the pads up on your temples, on your ears, there's a couple of locations you can put it, and there are just two or three settings on it and you start off at the first set and see how it goes. And you can work your way up as you feel like you tolerate it, but you do two sessions twice a day. It takes about 15 to 20 minutes each session, but it just gets your body into a sort of a more relaxed state.

Dr, Darren: So for anyone who's got ADD, anxiety, insomnia, it can be very beneficial. And in the United States, this is an FDA medically approved device off and you can get your insurance to pay for it. But if your insurance doesn't pay for it, I think it cost seven or $800. But again, I've used it with a handful of people and they've been responding quite well. So for people who are tired of taking one more pill, this is a really easy thing that people can do to help induce a deeper sleep.

Christine: That's awesome.

Kendra: So what does it feel like, like when you put it on and you switch it on.

Dr, Darren: Yeah, it's a wavelength. It's really below your threshold. So it's not like you feel a buzzing or anything like that. You don't really feel anything. Do you feel the dampness of the sponge on your head? That's pretty much it.

Christine: Okay. And you can relax while you're using it or can you do.

Dr, Darren: Well, you could do other things with it. I mean, once it's attached, you could walk around and do things. I usually tell people just do it when you do kind of meditation while you're doing it.

Christine: Yeah, that makes sense.

Dr, Darren: Just to indulge it there on your phone, playing candy crush or whatever you do and just to sit there quietly put on some nice music, help your brain, help you. So trying to get into a bit of a meditation state probably helps that a little bit better.

Christine: I think I'm going to grab me, I love that.

Kendra: I'm someone who's never been a great sleeper. I go through periods where I sleep like a boss, but other times, I just go through these periods where I don't sleep well. So I've been looking for something like that, so I'm going to check it out.

Dr, Darren: Yeah. Yeah. I said I'm all for it. I think there's a lot of interesting devices out there. There's one called Alpha stem, which is kind of similar to the Fisher Wallace here's a few different devices I've seen at conferences that all kind of accomplish the same thing. But, the Fisher Wallace, I like it just because, again, it's pretty easy to use. There's not a lot of settings you have to navigate. You don't have to be a genius to figure out how to do it. Same thing with the Alpha stem. The office seems pretty easy. That one, you do have little clips that go on your ear lobes and you just literally turn it on. I mean, that's it. There are no settings to it. So there's some, a few easy devices out there that for people, again, if they've tried different supplements, things like Melatonin or five different herbs and if it's not really doing the job. So this may help you.

Christine: I'm over Melatonin. I'm just over it. I have an automatic I roll. It goes-

Kendra: Well, it doesn't work for everyone. That's for sure.

Dr, Darren: Well, people need to understand Melatonin's job is to get you to sleep. It's not going to keep you asleep. And for most of the people I see falling asleep is generally not the bigger problem. The bigger problem is they wake multiple times in the night. So Melatonin is not gonna do much for that anyway. So again, I like something like the Fisher Wallace, just that I think has a better chance of getting to that deeper restorative sleep. And again, that's where all that good tissue repairs going to happen.

Christine: Totally amazing. I'm so grateful that we had you on the podcast because it's been like a such a goldmine of knowledge, and the questions that can run I had and just like such good advice. So thank you so much.

Dr, Darren: That was my pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Christine: Kendra, do you have a last minute question?

Kendra: where you're like I just want to know where we can find out more about you. What's the name of your book and how can people connect with you online?

Dr, Darren: Sure. So the book is called the Lyme solution and that's available through Amazon or any major book retailer and they can find me online at Darren Ingles, nd.com. It's d a r i n i n g e l s. N D.com and we'd love for people to sign up for our newsletter. We've got a lot of great information about Lyme disease and other health related things and all of our social media tags are at Darren ingles nd, so you can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and so forth.

Christine: Awesome. I love it and it's so cool that you on social media so much. We do it again.

Dr, Darren: Well, we'll try.

Christine: That's another episode where we're going to talk about that.

Kendra: But social media, we need to talk about it. Yes.

Christine: All right but I think this was a pretty amazing, fantastic episode. If you guys out there thinks so too. And if you learned at least one new thing, which is not difficult in this one, then please head over to iTunes and leave us a five star review telling us how awesome we are, and will appreciate it and read it out loud, of course, for everyone to hear. So I think that's it for the episode today. So make sure that you switch on again in two weeks when we have our brand new spanking episode coming out. And Yeah, hope you have a wonderful day. Bye.

How to Build an Email List Fast as a Health Coach

WATCH THE EPISODE

Did you know that on average email marketers make 3800% return on investment? Holy crap right?! If that didn’t immediately make you open a new window to start email marketing then maybe my tips will. Email marketing doesn’t have to be a daunting task that only a marketing expert can achieve. No, in fact you can start a successful email campaign immediately with a small amount of subscribers….I did! With only 2,000 people on my email list, I generated $30,000 with one program launch. If you have 500 engaged people on your email list, that is way better than having 1,000 unengaged people.

So if you are looking to start email marketing your services, here’s what you need to do:

1. Create a lead magnet
2. Set up an email platform
3. Set up a confirmation email and nurture sequence
4. Create a landing page
5. Spread the word!

Sounds easy right? Well it is as long as you have some guidance along the way.

So first thing you have to do is create a lead magnet. This is what will get people to sign up to your list. These days people won’t just give their email away for nothing. They want something in return. By providing something of value, like a cheat sheet, checklist, case study, or guide. It should be something of pretty high value.

Next you want to set up your email platform or provider. BIG TIP – don’t resort to using Mailchimp! My go to’s are MailerLite, ActiveCampaign or ConvertKit (my favorite being ActiveCampaign). This is because of their abilities to create more complex marketing funnels.

After that you want to set up a nuture sequence where your new subscriber can get to know you. If you throw a sales-y email at them right away, chance are they are going to hit that unsubscribe button before you know it. By creating a nurture sequence after the lead magnet email, you allow the subscriber to get to know you and build a trust in you. The point of a nurture sequence is to sort of introduce them to your personality, your method, and how you can help them. Usually there's a sell at the end of the nurture sequence.

Before you start sending all these emails, you need to create a landing page, which is where people will go to sign up for your lead magnet. This is what you will link to any time you refer to your lead magnet. You want to catch people's attention on the landing page with imagery and wording. You have to really draw them in with that first page and they shouldn't have to scroll to see it so that they want to opt in and get that free lead magnet immediately. ClickFunnels is my go-to for landing page software but Leadpages or Unbounce are also good.


And finally, you want to pitch the crap out of your new lead magnet! You can pitch it at the end of your Facebook Live videos, social media outlets, podcasts, even in your email signature! You can also create a pop-in on your homepage of your website to get people’s attention to sign up.


So there you have it! 5 easy steps to starting up your own email marketing! Be sure to watch my YouTube video for further information, and don’t forget to subscribe to my channel so you can stay up to date on when my weekly videos are posted every Thursday.



Get my FREE guide 10 Must Know Tips for New Health Coaches 

TRANSCRIPT

Hey guys, I'm Kendra from KendraPerry.net and I want to blow your mind with this statistic. Did you know that on average email marketers make 3800% return on investment? Basically that means for every $1 you spend, you could make $38 in return. Mind blowing, right? With that statistic in mind, it kind of makes you think like, "Okay, I need to start email marketing."
In this video I'm going to show you exactly how to get started building your email list as soon as possible. Guys, and if you love functional health training and getting online business strategies for health coaches, make sure to subscribe to my channel and hit the bell so you get notified every single Thursday when I post a new video.
According to 59% of business to consumer marketers, email is the biggest source of ROI or return on investment for their business. If you're not email marketing already, then basically you're kind of just leaving money on the table and you're also lacking at consistent, predictable stream of incoming leads of people who could eventually become your paying client.
Guys, by the end of this video, you will know the exact sequence of things that you need to do to start your email list and start marketing your email list as soon as possible.
Guys, and I don't want you to feel overwhelmed by the thought of building an email list because really gone are the days where you need tens of thousands of people on your email list to actually build a business. These days it's way more about quality over quantity. I generated $30,000 in a launch with only 2,000 people on my email list. If you have 500 engaged people on your email list, that could continue to make you money and bring in clients over and over and over again.
Step number one is to create your lead magnet. Your lead magnet is basically how you convince people to join your email list. Because these days people don't really like giving away their email very much. They're pretty kind of hesitant to give it away. You actually need to provide them something of value in exchange for their email address. This is a lead magnet and a lead magnet could be something like a cheat sheet, a checklist, a case study, maybe a quick guide. It should be something of pretty high value. You should actually spend quite a bit of time making this thing awesome. But some words of caution is don't make it something that's hard to consume. What I mean by that is don't offer some massive ebook or video series. This should actually be really quick. You should really think about giving your ideal client a quick win.
Of course you need to know who your ideal client is. This is a really important thing in online marketing. You need to know who you're talking to. But let's say your ideal clients is a woman struggling with belly bloat. Maybe your guide is, you know, five quick tips or five supplements or five foods that she can eat that will help reduce the bloat.
It should give her something that's pretty easy to consume. She can probably read that a quick guide or checklist in about five to 10 minutes and she can try these things and hopefully one of those things will help reduce her belly bloat and give her that quick plan.
That's what you really want to be thinking about with your email lead magnet is high quality, easy to consume, quick win, and really good valuable content. Guys, if you need to hire a graphic designer to make it look really nice, you can actually go to Fiverr or Upwork and you can hire someone for super cheap to make your lead magnet look really beautiful.
Step number two is to set up your email provider. This is not something that you want to do by yourself. You do not want to be spamming people from Gmail. Now that's not going to work. You actually need to hire an online email provider, okay? But the good news is there's a lot of them that actually have free accounts. The one that people mostly use is MailChimp, but I'm going to tell you don't use MailChimp. Trust me, you will want to switch from MailChimp when you start wanting to more complex and advanced marketing funnels. MailChimp actually charges you multiple time per subscribers. If you have one person on three lists that counts three people and you're always paying based on how many subscribers you have. Do not use MailChimp. That is not my recommendation.
My recommendations for an email provider is either MailerLite, ActiveCampaign or ConvertKit. The nice thing about MailerLight is you can actually get a free account for under a thousand people. This might be a really good place to start for you. ActiveCampaign is about $9 per 500, and about $17 for 500 to 1,000 so still pretty cheap.
ConvertKit is on the more expensive end. You're going to be paying about $29 a month initially, I think for up to about 1,000 subscribers. But they're all really good options and they all have the ability to do more complex marketing funnels. Trust me, if you're going to be in this online game for awhile, you really want to grow an online business, you are going to want to do those more complex marketing funnels at some point. I definitely recommend starting with someone where you know you can grow with it because switching over your email provider is kind of a pain in the butt. My top recommendation is definitely ActiveCampaign and actually use all these three providers. Even though I use ConvertKit, I kind of regret switching from ActiveCampaign because I think they're the most user friendly. It's really easy to use and it's really easy to figure out, and it's pretty affordable. It's right in that middle range.
Guys, and I would love to know are you using email marketing? If you're not, tell me why. Let me know in the comments below. Step number three is to set up your email confirmation and nurture sequence. When people opt in to get your lead magnet, you want to immediately send them an email that gives them what you promised to give them. In this confirmation email, just get to the point, don't write a bunch of fluff, just keep it short and sweet. Tell them that you're super excited that they wanted this lead magnet. Maybe say something funny or something that shows your personality and give them the link to download that freebee.
You can link it through sharing for Dropbox, you can use Amazon AWS. There's a lot of online storage providers where you can link this to. Okay. But just make sure short and sweet. Just give them what you promised so that they actually open it and down cause you actually want them to see it. You want them to see how awesome it is and build that trust with you. Okay.
A nurture sequence is a little bit more complex. If you're brand new, just start with the confirmation email, but eventually when you're ready, I do recommend doing a nurture sequence, and a nurture sequence basically nurtures your person, helps build that trust, know and connection factor and helps basically move them through a series of emails. It's usually about five to 10 emails. It depends on your business model.
But basically the point of a nurture sequence is to sort of introduce them to you, your personality, your method, and how you can help them. Usually there's a sell at the end of the nurture sequence. If you have a cheap program or maybe a free discovery call. You can pitch it to them at the end of their nurture sequence.
But we're going to do a whole other video on nurture sequences because this is pretty complex and there's actually specific ways that you want to write your nurture sequence. But I do recommend walking them through an email sequence to help them get to know you, understand what it is you do, and how you help people and how you might actually be able to help them.
Step number four is to create your landing page. I do, again, recommend that you purchase landing page software. Don't try to do this yourself through your website. It's going to be really confusing, but there's a lot of options out there for landing pages. If you want to invest a little bit of money, I highly recommend ClickFunnels. I use the ClickFunnels for everything. It's very easy, drag and drop and easy to use.
You can also use Leadpages or Unbounce. You're going to be paying around 70 to $100$ dollars a month for these. If you're looking for a free option, I recommend going with Carrd, so C-A-R-R-D, Weblilum or Ucraft. These all offer really basic free options for landing pages, but basically the landing page is how people get access to your lead magnet. When you send them off of your social media site from a Facebook post or a Facebook Live or maybe a Facebook ad, you're basically sending them to a landing page which convinces them to give them their email address to get that thing for free.
You really just need to pay attention to the image that you use on that first page and the headline, right? You want to catch people's attention very quickly. People have really short attention spans. You have to really draw them in with that first page and they shouldn't have to scroll to see it so that they want to opt in and get that free lead magnet immediately.
Step number five is to pitch it. Now that you have everything set up, you have your lead magnet, you have your email provider, you have your landing page, you have your confirmation email, you have all that thing set up. Now you actually have to get the word out there that you were giving this thing away. there are a lot of different places you can pitch your freebie. You can pitch it at the end of your Facebook Live videos, you can pitch it on a social media post, maybe on your podcast.
A really great place to put it is in your email signature. Every time people email you or your team, you can put it in your VA's email signature. Every time they get an email from you, they get offered this free thing. Get on the mountains and scream it to the world, right? Because you've created this amazing high value freebie. It gives people a quick win. It's going to be super valuable for all the people who fit into your ideal client, into your niche, so now you just need to get out there and across every platform, tell them about it.
I also recommend putting a pop-in on your website. I know a lot of people think pop-ins are a little controversial, right? Some people kind of feel annoyed by them, but all the stats tell you that people who have a pop-in on their website do way better with email marketing. Put it at the end of your blog posts, put it all over your website, get a pop up on your website and start pitching it.
Now that you know how to grow your email list as fast as possible, make sure to get my free insider's guide: 10 Must Know Tips for New Health Coaches. All my juicy tips are in there. You can just click the link below to grab that. Guys, and if you like this video, please do like this video, share it, comment, let me know what you learned and definitely subscribe to my channel so that you don't miss every video I post on Thursday.

3 Ways to Detect Mineral Deficiencies with Blood Testing

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As you’ve heard me say in the past, hair tissue mineral analysis is by far the best way to assess your client for mineral deficiencies. But you can still find plenty of hidden gems of information that you can get from your client's blood chemistry, which is great because it’s usually an easy test they can get from their medical doctor during a physical.

There are 3 particular markers that I use blood chemistry analysis for: low vitamin D, alkaline phosphatase and homocysteine.

What may come to a surprise to many is that low vitamin D levels are often linked to a magnesium deficiency. How you ask? Well, magnesium affects how the body is able to regulate calcium. Without magnesium, calcium has a really hard time staying in the bones, which can result in the buildup of calcium in the soft tissue. This in return lowers vitamin D raises calcium and the body does not want to be retaining more calcium when it doesn't have the minerals to keep it where it belongs.

Alkaline phosphatase levels are also a marker that can be found through blood tests. Alkaline phosphatase is the enzyme in the blood that helps break down proteins and when it’s low, it often means there is a zinc deficiency. When someone is low in zinc and low in low alkaline phosphatase, it typically means they are also struggling to produce sufficient stomach acid.

The third marker that tells you about mineral deficiency is homocysteine. When you see low homocysteine on a blood test, that generally means there is a boron deficiency. Boron helps regulate the inflammatory response in the body, and it also helps keep magnesium in the cell (see marker 1 about magnesium deficiency..see how this all coming together?!)

Now you understand a few of the markers to help assess mineral deficiency with blood chemistry. To get educated on the best assessment for mineral status in the body, I encourage using hair tissue mineral analysis. And lucky you - I've created a free intro series to hair mineral analysis which you can grab here.

TRANSCRIPT

Do you want to actually extract useful information from your clients blood chemistry? So, I'm Kendra from Kendraperry.net. By the end of this video, I'm going to show you three different markers on a blood chemistry that can help you assess for mineral deficiency.

If you guys want functional health training and online business strategies for health coaches, make sure to hit the bell and subscribe to my channel so you don't miss a video when I post it every single Thursday.

So in my opinion, hair tissue mineral analysis is by far the best way to assess your client for mineral deficiencies, but there's still a lot of really hidden gems and really useful information that you can get from your client's blood chemistry, which is pretty sweet because a lot of them already have them on hand from whenever they do a physical with their doctor. And by the end of this video, I'm going to teach you exactly what those markers are and how to address them.

So hair tissue mineral analysis or HTMA testing is my jam, but I actually love utilizing blood chemistry as well. So HTMA with blood chemistry actually gives you a really, really interesting look into a person's body when it comes to their mineral status.

But let's get into the blood chemistry. So, the first thing that you might see on a blood chemistry is low vitamin D levels. So, the functional range for Vitamin D or 25 hydroxy vitamin D is 60 to 80, okay? And if you're seeing below 60 vitamin D levels, what you might want to do is give that person vitamin D, but that actually doesn't necessarily tell you about vitamin D deficiency, it actually tells you about magnesium deficiency.

So, magnesium is one of the first minerals to go when people start getting mineral deficient. Once magnesium goes, it really affects how the body is able to regulate calcium, and what happens is without magnesium, calcium has a really hard time getting and staying in the bone. And when it's not in the bone, it doesn't have enough magnesium to get in the bone, you get this soft tissue calcification or the buildup of calcium in the soft tissue, which is the joints, the muscles, the hair, the organs. Bone spurs can also be a side effect of soft tissue calcification, as can plaque build up in the arteries.

So, if you don't have good magnesium levels, then calcium can't get to where it belongs. And so what does the body do? Well, it lowers vitamin D, because vitamin D raises calcium, and the body does not want the body to be retaining more calcium when it doesn't have the minerals to keep it where it belongs, because soft tissue calcification is a big issue. It actually makes the body age.

So when you see low vitamin D on a blood chemistry test, instead of giving vitamin D, support their magnesium levels instead. And what you want to do is recommend five times their body weight in pounds in milligrams. So, if they weigh a hundred pounds, they need 500 milligrams of magnesium a day.

Do not recommend citrate. I always recommend doing bisglycinate, glycinate or malate. My favorite product to use is from Jigsaw Health, and it's the SRT magnesium, so it's a time release magnesium malate, so it time releases over eight hours. So it allows a person to get more magnesium, without it causing diarrhea or loose stool.

Guys, and I would love to know are you using blood chemistry in your health coaching business? Let me know in the comments below. I would love to know.

The second marker that tells you about mineral deficiency is alkaline phosphatase. So, this is going to be a marker that you find on the comprehensive metabolic panel or the CMP, and you want alkaline phosphatase to be between 70 and 100. But if it's below 70, that actually indicates zinc deficiency. It's actually the only thing that it indicates, and what you're going to find is that most people have low alkaline phosphatase. Zinc deficiency is a very, very common thing, and it's a big deal because we need seek to not only have a healthy immune system and healthy skin, but we also need it to make stomach acid.

So typically, your people with low zinc and low alkaline phosphatase are also struggling to produce sufficient stomach acid. So you are going to want to supplement with zinc, but you do have to be cautious with zinc because zinc actually lowers sodium, and a lot of people are pretty bottomed out in sodium, so you don't want to go for a very hefty dose.

You go too high, you could also trigger a copper dump, or the dumping of several really dangerous metals. So, when it comes to zinc, I would not go over 15 milligrams. I would max out at 15 milligrams, and you want to go with a glycinate, a gluconate or something called OptiZinc.

The third marker that tells you about mineral deficiency is homocysteine. So, most practitioners are only getting concerned with high homocysteine. I would say the functional range for homocysteine is between 6 and 7.2. Now, if you have low homocysteine, that actually tells you about boron deficiency. Boron is incredibly important. It helps regulate the inflammatory response in the body, and it also helps keep magnesium in the cell. A lot of people are magnesium deficient these days, so if you're seeing low homocystine, your client needs boron.

Now, one of the easiest way to support this without having your client go out and buy supplements is actually to do a foot bath. You want to be using good water, good purified water, but you can put borax into the foot bath, and they can absorb the bond through the skin.

Now, if you're going to go the supplement route, you can go with a brand called Hakala labs. They make a boron in a 30 milligram tablet, and you want to start people with about a half of that, so they can actually cut that tablet in half and start with 15 milligrams and eventually work up to 30 milligrams.

You can also go with Source Naturals. They make the triple boron, but it's a much lower dose. It's actually most companies make a pretty low dose, so Source Naturals is around three milligrams, so you're going to have to have people taking about five capsules a day to get that 15 milligrams of boron.

All right, so now you understand a few of the markers to help assess mineral deficiency with blood chemistry. Now is probably a good time to actually get educated on the best assessment for mineral status in the body, which is hair tissue mineral analysis. So, I've created a free intro series to hair mineral analysis, and you can grab that video series by clicking the link below. Guys, and if you like this video, make sure to like it, leave via a comment and let me know what you learned. Share it with your fellow health coaches, and definitely subscribe to my channel so you don't miss a video when I post it every Thursday.

How to Take Your Health Practice From In-Person to Online with Dr Tim Jackson

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Are you a practitioner that primarily focuses on in-person sessions but looking to take your practice online? Whether you’re looking to move entirely online, or have both a brick and mortar and online business, your online presence is absolutely essential. If your practice is perceived as a brick and mortar, how do you take that perception and make people think of looking for you in an online setting? It’s a tough question for many! The quick answer - create content, bring a lot to the table and bring a different skillset that can scale online. That’s where Dr. Tim Jackson comes in. 

Dr. Tim Jackson, DPT received his undergraduate degree in Health science and chemistry from Wake Forest University in 2003. He completed his Doctorate in Physical Therapy (DPT) from the Medical University of SC in 2009.

Realizing that manual therapy and orthopedic care helped only some of his patients, he began studying functional and environmental medicine, as well as digestive health, in an effort to help others achieve wellness. Dr. Tim is educated in nutritional biochemistry, digestive health and its systemic effects, as well as functional endocrinology. He recently completed the Spine portion of the Active Release Technique methodology, a system that addresses musculoskeletal trigger points and helps to expedite the healing process. Currently, Dr. Tim is working on his Functional Diagnostic Nutritionist certification.

We talk about many different topics in this episode including the link between chronic infection and mitochondrial issues, but our main focus and what everything ended up coming back to was how your take your practice into an online setting.

It’s no lie that the digital world serves the most people. You can connect with people that live down the block from you in your home town or live halfway across the world. This is the new way to connect and grow your business. Tune into. How Dr. Jackson did this, and how you can too!


Tools discussed in this episode:
Anchor app
healthtalksonline
Functional Diagnostic Nutrition Course

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TRANSCRIPT


Christine: Hello again and welcome to this new episode of The 360 Health Biz Podcast, and I'm super-excited, it's beautiful weather outside, we're in April, winter is behind us I hope. And with me is my wonderful, beautiful, totally kick-ass, badass Kendra Perry, co-host.

Kendra Perry: Hello.

Christine: The co-hostest with the mostest, and we have a super-exciting guest today, friend of mine, huge, long conversations with about all kinds of things, Dr. Tim Jackson, so I'm very, very excited to talk about how to take your offline practice to online, kind of things that you encounter, so this is especially interesting for those of you who will have a traditional brick and mortar business and who want to evolve into the online space, which we love at this podcast.

Christine: Now, don't forget, as always you will be able to follow on our blog and you will also find us on YouTube, you will find us obviously on Audio, but you can also watch us on our YouTube channel, so that's always fun to do. Then we are super-excited because as you know, each time when you learn something exciting I'll ask you to please, please, please leave us a five star review on iTunes and someone did that, not today actually, we apologize in advance because we kind of didn't followup and forgot to check.

Kendra Perry: Get up.

Christine: No.

Kendra Perry: I've been checking but yeah, iTunes doesn't really bring everything into one so they're kind of everywhere so we missed this one. This is actually from a couple of months ago, so Cathy Morris, we love you. We are sorry we have not read your review until now but we really appreciate it. She left us a short and sweet [crosstalk 00:01:39] that says, "These ladies are wonderful, true, heartfelt educators. They really want to help with their heath and plans. I love listening to them. Thank you Cathy for that review that you left two months ago, we really appreciate it. It's warming our heart now.

Christine: We do, we do, we totally do. Thank you so, so much. And if you want to receive as much love from us as we just sent over to Cathy, hope you feel all warm and tingly, then please go and head over to iTunes right now and leave us a review. So hit pause, leave us a review, and we'll be making sure to give you a shout out next episode.

Kendra Perry: Sooner than two months from now.

Christine: It's so typical of us to miss that kind of stuff, you know how it is.

Kendra Perry: We're disorganized gong shows, so-

Christine: No real surprise there, right? Unless you send us money. We will take that gladly, immediately-

Kendra Perry: Yeah, and then it'll be on there in [crosstalk 00:02:30]-

Christine: We have a Patreon page, by the way. Go to our website 360healthbizpodcast.com and you can donate to support our cause. All right, so without further ado, Dr. Tim Jackson, super-excited to have you here. You have a massively impressive biography with all kinds of degrees and all kinds of diplomas and education, so it's basically you just read it and you're like, "Oh my God, your brain must be huge," so in a nutshell, who are you, what do you do?

Dr. Tim Jackson: My doctorate's in physical therapy and rehabilitation, my undergrad is in health science and chemistry. I started out doing orthopedic rehabilitation and sports medicine, and I kind of knew all along that I wanted to incorporate functional medicine aspects into it, just because a lot of times your musculoskeletal pain, if it's not 100% caused by internal issues it's 80% caused by internal issues, so I can adjust your spine and mobilize your elbow, but why are those things inflamed? I figured out that I was pretty good at functional medicine and there weren't many people doing it, I was doing it before there was really a name for it and there were a ton of people doing orthopedics.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And so I work with people and I'm working on narrowing down my ideal client avatar, but I have everyone from professional athletes to kids on the autism spectrum. A lot of people will say, "How can those two populations have anything in common?" Mitochondrial dysfunction, gut issues, so there's actually a lot they have in common, and so I work with clients from all over the world as part of my Heal Your Body Program, working in layers versus one-time consults.

Dr. Tim Jackson: I also do practice consulting with traditional medical clinics that are looking to incorporate functional medicine, IV nutrition, functional lab testing, supplementation and nutritional consultation.

Kendra Perry: Man, how do you get it all done? It sounds like a ton of things, wearing tons of hat.

Christine: I'm just exhausted listening to that.

Dr. Tim Jackson: I sleep like a boss, that's how.

Christine: Secret. If you don't, get in touch with me.

Kendra Perry: Shameless plug.

Christine: Totally. All right, so I think it's super-interesting because I'm pretty sure we have ... I find that so many people who work with physical therapy who start to shift into the functional medical corner, and I do think that you just told us that you work with people all over the world. I guess it just is like a change of thinking that you actually do that, because I guess when you start out you do have the typical idea of a brick and mortar business, where people come see you and, as you said, you kind of ... I don't know what you do, you press and prod and I don't know what else you do.

Kendra Perry: Poke.

Christine: In order to get them back into shape, so I can imagine that people will say, "Okay, so how is this dude going to help me with his webcam, you know?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right. Sure, I mean it's the same sort of principle as osteopathic medicine chiropractic. There are plenty in those professions that don't do manual therapy or hands-on, so I get a lot of emails with people asking, "Oh, can I come to you in person?" You can, it's not really going to change what we do. You still need a local primary care physician who can prescribe medication if needed, and who can you see for emergency issues, and physical exams and things of that nature.

Dr. Tim Jackson: I work more on looking at biochemical and biophysical imbalances and finding those pathways that are congested or block and optimizing them. And so it doesn't really matter where you are, to a certain extent lab testing is different in different parts of the world. But for example, in Canada, good luck getting a Reverse T3 tested, it's not going to happen.

Kendra Perry: I can get it done. I can get it done. I have a great naturopath, but yeah, it's a pain in the ass. They send it away and then you wait forever, and then they always forget it and you're like, "I paid for this. I paid for this. Give it to me." [inaudible 00:07:05]

Dr. Tim Jackson: Exactly. Yeah, I mean a lot of it I've kind of moved since when I started practicing I mean I was definitely more heavily focused on the supplementation. Of course, I still use supplements but I try to give people the best return on their investment, things like far infrared sauna, red light therapy, my molecular hydrogen machine over here. Those are things that are going to continue to work for you month after month without having to purchase a new one.

Kendra Perry: Yeah.

Christine: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kendra Perry: Yeah, and so how do you use near infrared and far infrared sauna therapies? I'm so obsessed with light therapy. I've got my Joovv light, I've got my sunlight and sauna, are you using that primarily for detox and mitochondrial function?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, so I have the REDjuvenator, the ... Well, we could talk about that another time, but I wouldn't repurchase it, but it has red and near-fared. I use it for collagen production, [inaudible 00:08:08] 21, and-

Kendra Perry: He looks 21. Get on YouTube and watch the video so you can check him out.

Christine: Yeah, it's actually very true. I might have to get that machine, even if it's not working for you totally, but just does half I'm in, sign me up.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Hey, it's working for me. Have you seen this face?

Christine: Oh yeah.

Kendra Perry: He's glowing.

Christine: He's absolutely. I'm sure he doesn't have the green filter on like we do, you know?

Kendra Perry: We're cheating.

Dr. Tim Jackson: I don't even know how to do that, so no, I don't have that on. But I use the red light therapy mostly for mitochondrial boosting, collagen production is kind of a side benefit, but a lot of the products out there don't have the power output that they should to achieve a therapeutic affect. But it's one of those things that you can incorporate, your whole family can use. You do have to be careful with, and I know we don't want to get too off-topic, but in people who are really toxic even five minutes of stimulating the mitochondria any time you increase cellular energy production you're going to turn on a lot of things that were turned off. And so you just have to be careful of that.

Christine: Do you sometimes have clients ... How do you do this exactly? Do they have to see you are you going to tell a client, "Look, I do recommend that you do this," and then you tell them how to do it? Or how does that work?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, I mean, it's all part of a comprehensive program and I take into their account their budget and they're already doing. Some people who've come to me are already doing red light therapy and a lot of other biohacks. Other times I may recommend two supplements, gluten-free diet and far infrared sauna. Because I could recommend a zillion things, but it's just going to overwhelm them and you have to kind of meet people where they are and let them experience some success and get that momentum going. If you do that, then they'll buy-in, and I've found that if you can do something right off the bat that really makes them feel it, then they'll buy-in to everything else.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Someone told me once, "Give them a little bit of what they want and a lot of what they need." They might come to me for anti-aging but I might look at chronic infection, and they don't necessarily understand the connection but I do.

Christine: Sort of what I do, the niche is sleep but it's never just sleep, it just like one of the symptoms so it's exactly what you're saying, yeah.

Kendra Perry: It's all connected and I think people have a hard time wrapping their head around that because we've been raised in this sort of compartmentalized medical system, and no matter how often or how much I try to explain it to certain people they still don't get it, so you just exactly have to give them what they want, and then they're like, "Oh, this is great. I want to take things to the next level." Right?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right.

Kendra Perry: And so you've obviously been around for a very long time. You were with functional medicine before it was called functional medicine, probably dates you a little bit to the audience, but what did that transition look like when you were seeing people in clinic, in office when you realized you could utilize the Internet to reach more people around the world?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. I mean, I had been on the different forums and before Facebook and social media was popular, the health and medical forums were really popular and so I was on those back in the day, but I always realized that there were people locally who would go pay cash to see someone else versus coming to our clinic and using their insurance. So I think the dilemma is people want to transition into the online space but they don't want to up their game. You can't just transition and not have it on advanced skillset or something unique that you bring to the table.

Christine: That's a good point, yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, when you're transitioning or when I was transitioning, I just tried to put out good information and I definitely didn't know anything about SEO or any of that, and it just got shared really. I have medical doctors now that refer to me, other clinicians, acupuncturists, et cetera, but I think even if you're going to have a brick and mortar practice you still need to have a good online presence.

Dr. Tim Jackson: For example, when I lived in Atlanta the owned of the clinic where I worked part-time, he didn't understand that you can't just put up a sign and expect people to show up. I mean, there's a million functional medicine clinics in Atlanta and if someone googles, "Relevant functional medicine terms," you want to be at the very top. And so I think having an online presence is important, whether you're all virtual or you're split or all brick and mortar.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, I mean it's a really good point. Nothing drives me more crazy then when I'm trying to find more information about a business or a menu and they don't have a website or a Facebook page that they update, and I'm just like, "How?" I don't understand. How do you not have any sort of online, even if you're a local business, right? People traveling to the area, people ... For me, if it's not convenient, I'm out. Gone.

Christine: Me too. If it takes me more than two seconds to have a nice mobile-friendly page I'm out, and it's so annoying. Because okay, I'm just in the process of getting a kitten so I'm Googling breeders. You wouldn't believe how many of them have like wicks pages from 1995 or something like that. It's not mobile-friendly, you need to zoom into everything and press buttons and things, and I'm just like, "No, no, no, no, no." I would love to actually write them emails and say, "Look, I'm going to do your website for free because this is too frustrating."

Kendra Perry: And your next career is building cat websites.

Christine: Totally, there's a huge market there, I think.

Kendra Perry: I think there is.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, and they're also seeing my friend who is a psychiatrist.

Christine: See? There we go, mixed business. But I find we are all the same kind of age, we're actually all 56, we just look amazing to get because we have saunas and stuff. I think we are actually really lucky because we are belonging to the millennium breed, but we're still a generation ... One of millennium parts we remember the analog world but also the digital, so I think it really helps because if we have people, like the person who unfortunately was inflexible who ran the clinic that you worked at who were just totally analog, they really have a hard time understanding the digital. I think our generation is actually super-lucky because we understand how they think, and yet we grew up figuring all this crap out because it was basic.

Christine: I remember the first chatroom I was in was actually an ISC chatroom where you had to program everything, it was basically like a dot kind of an [inaudible 00:15:30] something. I didn't know it was that at the time, with my 14 years. But we had to figure it all out, so I think that makes us really techy in a way, if you're interested. You also have people of our generations who are not, but at the same time we really do get the analog thinking as well.

Christine: I find that that is really a gift in a way, because we kind of also know what other people are looking for. So some people still just look for signs, but it's translating that into Google as in saying, "Look, you are actually on a street. You Google ranking is the biggest billboard in town, in a way, so if you're listening and you are a couple of generation ahead of us and you just don't dig this digital stuff, really one of my pieces of advice would be just open your mind and you have to then hire someone who does it for you.

Christine: Because I think there is absolutely no way that you can get served the most people possible if you don't have an online presence, even if you're not ready to take your complete business online. But if you do have a business that people perceive as being a brick and mortar business, so for example I perceive someone who does osteopathy physical therapy to be a hands-on business. How do you take that perception for people even to think about looking for that online, because I would never consider it an online business? How do you do that for people to actually understand that they can work with that online?

Christine: You talked a little bit about creating content, so I would be interested to know a little bit about how that opened doors for people worldwide to find you and to actually even get the idea to hire someone in that area of expertise online, versus going and looking for a brick and mortar close by.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Well, I think, I mean all the content that I've produced has been functional medicine. None of it has been orthopedic related. It's just like with osteopaths or chiropractors who don't adjust or they just do nutritional consultations, et cetera. If someone wants manual therapy or an adjustment, et cetera, of course they need to see someone in person, but I just made sure that everything I talked about was functional medicine related, neuro immune related, gut health, hormones, et cetera and so no one ever really perceived me as this orthopedic manual therapy guy.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, I've just focused on putting out content about mitochondria and all those other topics in functional medicine and red light therapy, and so when you put that out there and hope that people find you, and yeah.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, it seems like if you do do manual therapy of some sort and you want to go online, I guess it depends ... Like you said, you need to bring a lot to the table or you need to have a different skillset. Where I live there's a massage therapy school, and so there's a ton of massage therapists in my town and they're always three years in they're stoked on it, and three years in they're just like, "I can't scale up. I don't know how to scale up my business," because they can only do so many massages, right, in a day or they burn out.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right.

Kendra Perry: And so I've been thinking a lot about them and I'm like, "You need some sort of subset of skills that you could bring online, or something that you can teach to bring online or otherwise, yeah, if you just do physical therapy you really can only hit so high and they're you're stuck."

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right. Yeah, I mean it's just like with chiropractors adjusting people. If that's all you do, I mean it's going to wear on your body a lot and there's reason why you don't see very many old doctors or physiotherapy or doctors of chiropractic, and it is very energy intensive, I mean especially if you want to get good results to do soft tissue release, manipulation, that sort of thing. I mean, I would often break out in a sweat just working on a patient.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And so that kind of stuff if people want a physical examination or a movement examination, I mean I can do that virtually and look at what reflexes are integrated or not and how their movement patterns are, and a lot of times it involves resolving inflammation and other functional medicine root cause stuff.

Christine: Yeah. If you had to do it again would you start out with physical therapy again or would you say, "Hell no, I would just go straight into functional medicine?"

Dr. Tim Jackson: Well, I mean that's the thing. People always ask me about going to school for functional medicine and there is no school for functional medicine. I don't care what people say, I'm sure I'll piss a lot of people off but I do that anyways. Naturopaths did not-

Christine: Welcome to the club, dude. [crosstalk 00:20:49]

Dr. Tim Jackson: Naturopaths did not own functional medicine, okay? Let's get that out there. The Institute of Functional Medicine doesn't own functional medicine, and so someone told me, "Just buy a ticket to play the game." I'd probably just get my FDN, honestly. I mean, why go to school for eight years? I mean, you know?

Kendra Perry: Yeah, and I think that's maybe the post that we reconnected on Facebook on, it was someone who was posting about the University of Functional Medicine and you said something about, you're like, "Why waste $30 grand when you could just take one of Bryan Walsh's course and learn so much more?" And I think I was like, "Hell, yeah," or something like that and that's kind of where I chimed in. But yeah, it's so true. I see a lot of people spending so much money on traditional education in [inaudible 00:21:34] functional medicine, but in the end, I mean the great thing about ...

Kendra Perry: You mentioned the FDN course. Both me and Christine have done that course and then we love it because it gives us the ability to order the labs and actually get in the game. But a lot of people who've done some of this more expensive functional medicine education, if they're on license they still can't order labs, so what's the point?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right, right. Exactly. And, I mean ultimately the stuff that you learn, the most important stuff I've learned has been me kind of piecing together things. Someone might hear me on a podcast or read an article, but they don't necessarily appreciate that it took five years to put all that together, it didn't just show up.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it so true. It's so complex and everyone's like, "Oh, what's your education?" I'm like, "Sure, I've got all these letters beside my name but most of them don't mean anything and haven't contributed at all to my skillset, whatsoever." And a lot of what we do is just working clinically, working with clients, speaking with other practitioners, spending our extra time in the deep dark corners of Club Med and looking at shit, right? People don't get that. You're like, "Can I put hours of looking at shit beside my name?"

Christine: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Actually I just saw a new ... she calls herself a nutritionist website, and under her credentials she had a list of the articles she had read, and I'm like, "There's not enough bandwidth for the number of articles that I've read."

Kendra Perry: Yeah.

Christine: Yeah, I probably don't even remember all of them, that's true. That's true.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah.

Kendra Perry: I find the little people ... yeah, go ahead.

Dr. Tim Jackson: No, I mean I just think it's silly that people look for certain letters to mean certain things, like they think, "Oh, if you're an optometrist then you can't do functional medicine," or, "If you're a dentist you can't do functional medicine." Why not?

Christine: Yeah, totally. And I find that's the first question I will usually get when I do talks or anything, it's like so people are looking at me, they're like, "So are you a doctor then?" You know? Or they're like that's the first question I always get, "So do you have a medical license?" Or, "Are you a doctor then?" And it's like, "No, but I have doctors sending me a lot of clients because they're just stuck at a certain point and they know that I get results. I work completely differently."

Christine: But it used to bother me, it used to really piss me off, like if you don't have the MD or the doctor in front of your name it's like okay, there's no cred in a way. I think it is shifting because a lot of people just know just through their own experience that there's a lot of boundaries in the traditional MD world and that it's just more for emergency cases. If you are an emergency, obviously it's the best thing that happened to us but, if not, very often everything is fine even though you feel like shit.

Christine: I found that is still something that people need to get used to, that you don't necessarily have to be an MD in order to be great at functional medicine.

Kendra Perry: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, when people ask- Sorry, go ahead.

Kendra Perry: Go ahead. You go.

Dr. Tim Jackson: When people ask me if I'm an MD I say, "No, I'm your doctor's doctor," which in a lot of cases is true. Which in a lot of cases I true. I mean, I have probably five or six MDs now as clients, so that's my response.

Christine: That's [crosstalk 00:25:06].

Kendra Perry: Totally. And I've spent a bunch of time training licensed practitioners, I do a big focus on hair mineral analysis and just ran a course. I had a couple of doctors in there, a couple of naturopaths, a couple of dietitians and then a bunch of health coaches. But yeah, it's like I think that barrier with the letters is breaking down a little bit. I feel like people are caring less and less, but I think it also when you're starting out, when you're unlicensed people feel really maybe inferior or they feel like they need to keep upgrading their education rather than just getting out there, and getting clients and doing the work. Because that's really what makes you a good practitioner. It's not the education or the letters, it's having clinical experience and actually working with the people.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Absolutely. Definitely. Well said.

Kendra Perry: Yeah.

Christine: Tell us bit about with all the experience that you had working with clients online all over the place, what would be your top three things that you see over and over again? And what are some of the things that were maybe surprising after you started to transition from what you started out of, more in physical therapy to functional medicine? What are the three things that stuck in your head where you were like, "I wouldn't have thought this, but I see this over and over and over again."

Dr. Tim Jackson: Well, I shouldn't say this surprised me, but I was always fascinated with the immune system and chronic infections, and even with orthopedic type stuff, people with bilateral knee pain they've found mycoplasma antigen antibody complexes in the synovial fluid in the joint. Yeah, I can mobilize your knee and release the soft tissues that connect into the meniscus, but it's really an inflammatory immune issue, and that really applies to all orthopedic situations. But whether people know it or now, and everyone's worried about getting the flu and an acute infection, when the reality is the stealth chronic infections that hang around and get into the brain, and the nervous system, the heart, the blood vessels, the liver, those are what you should be concerned about because they create a constant inflammatory cascade that's going to manifest differently in everyone.

Dr. Tim Jackson: The three of us may all get infected with the same pathogen, Kendra may have headaches, you may have sleep issues, and I'm just making funny of you to the sleep, and you may have-

Christine: I thought you'd say diarrhea, but it's fine. I prefer the sleep issue.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yes, diarrhea-

Christine: Loose poop.

Dr. Tim Jackson: ... we'll go with that. And I may have an elevated heart rate, so I would say that chronic infections would be number one. That's something that most people are dealing with whether they realize it or not, and we have a world of underperforming people, and a lot of times they kind of chalk it up to, "Oh, I'm just not smart," or, "I'm just not this or that," and-

Christine: Just getting old.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, a lot of being controlled by things that they've just never been taught to look at or look for. I would say the chronic infections, of course the mitochondrial issues. If you can boost the mitochondria everything works better, and then the circadian rhythm and environmental health. I kind of group indoor air quality, I deal a lot with mold toxicity, and that directly drops blood flow to the frontal lobe in the brain in addition to impacting various aspects of your immune system.

Dr. Tim Jackson: The chronic infection, the mitochondria, because when people hear mitochondria they think energy, they think, "Oh, go work out," but they don't realize that everything, like the thoughts that I'm thinking right now, that requires energy production, my heart beating requires energy production, and so everything in your body will suffer when energy production suffers.

Dr. Tim Jackson: I tell people at the end of the day we'll do functional lab testing, but the two best tests are what's your body temperature and what's your sex drive?

Kendra Perry: Very cool.

Dr. Tim Jackson: You know? Because nature never wants to reproduce anything that's weaker, it only wants to reproduce things that are stronger and have more vitality. And so if you have low libido, when people and ... I don't want to call anyone out, but these fertility clinics popping up everywhere when you just bypassed that process, you're asking for trouble.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, I totally agree. I see that all the time. I work with women and I see just so many women going through yeah, all the crazy fertility treatments. They haven't been able, they've been trying for 10 years and it's just like they're doing in vitro, they're doing the fertility drugs, and they're just forcing these babies out of the body that doesn't actually want them to have a baby because they're not quite healthy enough. I think that's a big think.

Kendra Perry: I mean, it's a tough topic because women, they really want it, it's a very emotional thing. It's a tough one. It's hard to convince women sometimes, especially when they're older, when they're in their later 30s early 40s and they feel like they're running out of time to just focus on health first and not do the IVF or do the crazy fertility hormones that just make you dump eggs like a motherfucker.

Christine: Yeah, nuts. And nobody asks you-

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, I get-

Christine: ... about your energy levels or anything like that. Because I've gone through, not all the way, but the beginning stages of those treatments when we tried to have a second one, thank God we didn't, but nobody asks you these questions, like no one. It's crazy to me but it doesn't matter. It's really about okay, we're still very lucky in Luxembourg because our insurance actually covers everything, our national health insurance, so it's still different but it's still, "Okay, you have this problem, hence we're going to do this process." Nobody talks to you about diet, nobody talks to you about your energy levels, nobody talks to you about anything that might have to do that your natural body is just not up to it, because producing a little human is pretty complex, you know?

Kendra Perry: It's a big fucking deal.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right. Yeah, and to piggyback off what Kendra said, I get a fair number of emails from women who are in their late 30s, early 40s, and they're like, "Dr. Tim, I've got to get pregnant yesterday," and I'm like, "Well, just pump the brakes for a minute and give me six months and I promise you it will pay off a lot in the long-term, verus trying to fix stuff after the fact."

Kendra Perry: Yeah, yeah. And I'm always amazed, I've worked with people who they're so burnt out, they're so exhausted, they have no energy, they don't sleep well, they're literally burnt out on the floor and they're like, "I want to have a baby." I'm like, "That is crazy. How? How are you going to do that and how are you going to raise a child when you're that fucking tired?" It's just [crosstalk 00:32:15]-

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right, yeah. I agree with you 100%. It's kind of like people that have two kids and they can't parent them well, so let's have a third.

Christine: Yeah.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, I know. Eww.

Christine: Thank God we're here tooting our horn. No, but it's very true. I mean, there's such a shift in paradigm having this information out, and I think part of it is because we do need to put that information out in order to be found and in order to run our businesses. On the one hand, yes, it's to the good for the people because we want them to learn more. On the other hand, it's just quite for us being in business it's important too, so it's really this two-way street but it's a win-win situation in the end, I reckon.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right, absolutely. Yeah, I mean I'm trying to become a jetsetter like you and just fly all over the place and live in luxurious resorts.

Christine: October, Bali people, 2019. Check it out. Self-promo, I'm sorry. I cannot help it.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, you're on fire today. You're just like, "I'm going to promote myself all episode long."

Christine: There's so many opportunities. What am I supposed to do?

Kendra Perry: You got to take it. You got to take it where you can get it.

Christine: Yeah. No, but I mean, it's what an online business is in the end. I think you have to give yourself a little bit of a nudge in order to be visible, it's not easy for everyone, and I think you have to do it in the way that suits you. Kendra and I, we obviously love the camera and we're like, "Hi," it's grim stories and all kind of witches talk, but other people are not. I think, for those, it's really a lot better that you create written content, and I think that's what you do mainly too, right?

Dr. Tim Jackson: What kind of content, sorry?

Christine: Written content.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Oh, written. Yeah. I mean, it's not that I don't like the camera. I do a ton of podcasts and summit interviews, I just hadn't gotten my lazy butt around to filming myself yet. Maybe I can talk to you guys off-air about what camera I need. But yeah, I want it to make me even younger and even more muscular, so-

Kendra Perry: We just need to show you how to use the zoom filter. Really, without the zoom filter, it is the morning, I just rolled out of bed, first coffee, I'm haggard, but the zoom filter it cleans me right up.

Christine: [crosstalk 00:34:45]. No, I mean [inaudible 00:34:48].

Dr. Tim Jackson: You look like you're in a studio right now Christine. Are you in some kind of-

Christine: Yeah, I have my studio set up. I was recording. What was I recording? Oh, my introduction to the website. I redid that, so yeah. I've been doing some video, more pro stuff, but it didn't turn out the way I wanted to. I may have to do it again. Yeah, sometimes I ... I love this stuff, I love [inaudible 00:35:10], I love ... I spend shitloads of money on that stuff, but I think it's to each their own, right? But-

Dr. Tim Jackson: I, personally, would rather have an aneurysm than deal with that stuff.

Kendra Perry: See? Oh my God. Really?

Christine: It's not [crosstalk 00:35:26]-

Dr. Tim Jackson: Biochemistry, that doesn't stress me out. Pathophysiology, that doesn't stress me out. You start talking about metatags and H1, H2, and my HPA is just choo, choo, choo.

Kendra Perry: Just gone.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, I have zero patience for that.

Christine: I do have a question though, because you just mentioned that you do lots of summits and lots of podcasts, so let's talk a little bit about that. Do you think this has helped your mastery with your business? Is this ... Because I know it's such a trend and so many people have done it, especially you people listening to this, it's about how can you make your coaching business or health practice more successful. I think you have these huge companies like what are they called? Health Talks Online-

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah.

Christine: ... and all these huge, huge, huge summit and I had my own summit a couple of years ago and you were actually an expert on that, and my list grew hugely, my email list, but I lost pretty much all of those people again, so as soon as I pitched the something. I'm wondering, has it been successful for you?

Dr. Tim Jackson: I think it has. People end up following my work and reading my articles. They may overtime become clients immediately, it may be two years down the road but just to give you an example. I was a coffee shop in Sedona, Arizona, and two separate people who didn't know each other came up and they were like, "Hey, weren't you on the Bulletproof Executive podcast?" And I was like, "Yeah, you watch that?"

Christine: Wow, pretty big deal.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, that's [crosstalk 00:37:03]-

Christine: I've never had that happen to me, there you go.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Well, that's just because you're a household name already, so ... But yeah, I mean I think it has. I haven't nurtured the opt-in email list because, again, all that stuff just stresses me out.

Christine: Mm-hmm (affirmative). I don't have a [crosstalk 00:37:19].

Dr. Tim Jackson: If I can pay someone to turn on my computer I probably would. That's just the reality of it. But the summits, I've never hosted a summit. I've been on, I think, nine or 10 and I think that did help me get a fair number of clients. But, like you said, people want ... in this day and age they're spoiled in terms of content and information. The other day just to give you a quick example, I made a post that was again to you, there's probably 1% of the world that knows this and it was about THC depleting potassium. Someone responded, "Where are your citations?" And I'm thinking, "Okay, yeah. Let me just stop seeing patients and I'll be a librarian and I'll start posting those links. That's what I'll do all day."

Dr. Tim Jackson: It gets kind of ridiculous and there's so much content out there you have to just kind of be consistent with it, I guess, and consistent with your messaging, and get in front of the right people because a lot of the people that I've met that are world famous, they definitely don't know the most they're just really good at marketing.

Christine: Yeah, and I think that's an issue a little bit in our ... As you say, people are very spoiled and it is a bit of an issue because you need to market yourself in order to get ads there but, at the same time, you need to have a quality service so it is tricky, definitely.

Kendra Perry: But I think what you just said, Tim, just kind of summed up how to have a successful online business, you were like be consistent, create consistent content, and I think it was create valuable content. It was something along those lines, I just kind of brain farted on a few of those things. But yeah, I feel like people want ... They're like, "Okay, well what's the strategy? How do I make it? Tell me the sexy stuff," and it's like, "Be consistent," and everyone's like, "Uh, what?" But it's so true. You just need to be consistent. You just need to keep showing up, you need to keep spreading your message, which is actually, I think, the other thing you said there.

Kendra Perry: Keep telling your story, spreading your message, be consistent, provide valuable content and don't give up, really. That's what it comes down to, I think.

Christine: Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, and if you have flaunt it. I mean, I know so many that they don't really know very much but they charge a hefty penny. So hey, if you can't beat them, join them. Maybe I'll start doing shirtless podcasts.

Christine: You'd actually have an awesome podcast. If you just recorded what you wrote, all our blog posts and everything you know, it would be an amazing podcast, actually.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Maybe I can fly to Luxembourg and do it in your studio there.

Christine: That would be totally worth it. Kendra, we need to make an episode on how to do podcasts and what kind of [crosstalk 00:40:19].

Kendra Perry: yeah, totally.

Christine: I was just thinking that. I wrote it on my notepad where I wrote, "Hire Jamie Jensen, and do a [crosstalk 00:40:28] podcast."

Kendra Perry: Yeah, well I think podcasts are a great way to get out there. And I mean, me personally, I've said this a lot, but I don't consume video content because I don't have fucking time. When I'm off my computer I'm moving around, I'm getting shit done, I'm out on my bike so I listen to an obscene amount of podcasts in a day, I'm always listening to them. I don't really listen to music, so it's a good way to get in your ideal client's ears while they're in their car or on their run, or whatevs.

Christine: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right.

Christine: Especially if you don't like the camera it's very easy to do.

Kendra Perry: You don't have to do it like we do.

Christine: No, you can literally take your iPhone, if you have Anchor, it's an app and you can literally just hit the record button like you do on a voice memo and it really uploads it straight onto your podcasts clouds, and yet it's available on Spotify and iTunes, and you literally just take your iPhone and you speak into it whatever's in your head. It's super-easy nowadays, yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Got you. I'll have to ask you some stuff off here about that.

Christine: Yeah. All right. What else did we forget? We're super-organized, as you can see.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, in terms of people looking. Now, functional medicine's a buzzword, and it's funny you mentioned doctors of physical therapy, people don't traditionally take them as doing functional medicine, but when I went into my doctorate program it was actually harder to get into than the MD program.

Christine: Really?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, yeah. It had become very popular, but the same thing happened that happened with attorneys. They opened up a lot of new schools at once and then that diluted the pool, and so that drove salaries down. But I think having a brick and mortar if you want to incorporate functional medicine into it, hire someone to help you with the low hanging fruit, things that you can do immediately, and hire someone ... There are hormone clinics popping up all over the place and you can just do hormones. I mean, you can, but if the gut's messed up or you're extremely toxic they're not good enough to work.

Dr. Tim Jackson: That's how functional medicine kind of gets a bad name, I think, people they just see dollar signs because they know if they name their clinic so-and-so Hormone Clinic, then people are going to come. But if I were to have a brick and mortar and call it ... I would probably call it something Hormone Clinic, but then I would drop all the other stuff on it.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, no it's a good point. I mean, hormones are just so trendy these days, and I mean all the women who I work with are like, "Oh, what about my hormones? What about my hormones?" I'm like, "We've been working on your hormones for a year, just not-"

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right.

Christine: Yeah.

Kendra Perry: "We've been working on your gut, your minerals, we've been detoxing metals, we're working on your hormones we're just not giving you hormones and [crosstalk 00:43:26] them specifically, but people don't like that.

Christine: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right, but that would require thinking. I read a stat the other day or a few weeks ago, the average IQ is dropping seen points every four to five years.

Kendra Perry: What? Is that a lot? That seems like a lot.

Dr. Tim Jackson: That is a lot.

Christine: That's a huge point.

Dr. Tim Jackson: So in nine to 10 years that's going to be 14 points, that's a lot.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, well I think my IQ is going up seven points every year. I think I'm good.

Dr. Tim Jackson: I think my sexiness factor's going up exponentially.

Christine: [crosstalk 00:44:02].

Kendra Perry: Oh, that's so interesting. And you think that's due just to all the crazy, sick unhealthiness going on these days?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, I mean I think a lot of it is low thyroid and a lot of it is mitochondrial dysfunction, because the nervous system has the highest concentration of mitochondria, so the first system that goes offline when you have mitochondrial dysfunction is the brain.

Kendra Perry: Yeah. yeah, true. I mean, so many of my clients, yeah, they have brain fog or they just have no memory, no recollection. They just forget everything, they have brain fog, they have mental health issues, it's so common, more common than any other symptom I feel like is brain shit.

Dr. Tim Jackson: That's because you live where it snows year-round.

Kendra Perry: I do. But I love the snow. I love. I love the ... Snow sucks I you don't do anything cool in it. If you just sit around and bitch about winter and you're like, "Oh, winter sucks," then yeah, snow sucks. But if you get out you can do so many cool things in the snow it's insane. You can ski, you can snowboard, you can go sledding, there's so much fun things. Once you get into it, once you find a snow sport, you're in love.

Dr. Tim Jackson: I love snowboarding, but if you go snowboarding anywhere around here it's like falling on cement.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, well you've got to come to British Columbia and ski some real BC powder, that is a game changer, that is orgasmic, my friend.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Well, then I'll have to look that up.

Christine: Yeah.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, it's messed up.

Christine: Now you know my michochondria going-

Kendra Perry: Michochondria, good one.

Christine: Oh God, mitochondria, I cannot ... my brain. I think I have just dropped 12%.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Did you just combine German and English and another language?

Christine: It's my brain fog. I had a rough week and people.

Kendra Perry: All right, well, do we have anything else to cover today? We've covered a lot of random topics, which is fun. I like these episodes where we go where things take us, right?

Christine: Exactly, and I think there was super-helpful things there, and I just got a ton of ideas what we can add to our website.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Don't stress me out, my heart rate's going up.

Kendra Perry: Just can't handle the check.

Dr. Tim Jackson: I can't, I can't.

Christine: Oh good, we're such geeky people, I love it.

Kendra Perry: I know, I love the [crosstalk 00:46:23]-

Christine: All right, I think this has been awesome. People out there from our random train of thought episode, which still has been amazing, let us know what was the most interesting, random, surprising, whatever thing. Let us know why you are writing your five star iTunes review, and we will love you forever.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, and before you shut down this podcast just take a screenshot, share it to your Instagram stories, tag 360HealthBizPodcast, and we will share it to ours, because we love IG stories. If you love them, then lets do it together.

Christine: Mention us. That's just a little tidbit, like you need to use the mention kind of icon, not just the app symbol but he actual mention because then we can do it. Otherwise, it's more difficult.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, totally, so there you go. All right guys, well thanks so much.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Whatever they just said.

Kendra Perry: He's like, "I don't know, what's Instagram story?"

Dr. Tim Jackson: Heart rate, heart rate.

Kendra Perry: Oh my God.

Dr. Tim Jackson: With social media I have an idea.

Kendra Perry: We're going to have to talk off-air, Tim.

Christine: Yeah, I'm absolutely ... Kendra, I would agree. Tim, we need to talk.

Kendra Perry: Well, thanks so much guys and thank you, Tim, so much for being here with us. This was awesome. It was super-fun to hang out and talk about health and business and all that nerdy shit. We love you guys and, as always, we will be back in two weeks time with another fantastic episode. Bye guys.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Thanks for having me.

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