All Posts by Kendra Perry

Is Hair Mineral Analysis Accurate?

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So you may have heard of HTMA hair analysis testing but may have heard mixed reviews on whether HTMA – hair tissue mineral analysis test is accurate or not. I believe that the hair mineral analysis test is the BEST functional nutrition testing out there.

Is hair mineral analysis accurate? Does hair mineral analysis work? YES! HTMA is great for mineral deficiency testing, heavy metal toxicity testing and much more.

Hair Mineral Analysis (HTMA) is my FAVORITE testing for my clients. I have been using HTMA testing for over 3 years and have created successful protocols based on hair mineral analysis results. I believe so much in hair mineral analysis, I even teach a HTMA course to practitioners so that more practitioners know how to use the tests properly.

In this video, I discuss four studies that prove the accuracy of hair mineral analysis testing. This includes selenium testing, hair calcium concentrations and how titanium and aluminum was found in the body due to hip replacement equipment. And how did they determine these minerals and metals were in the body..through hair mineral analysis!

You can find the studies I reference in this episode here:

US Environmental Protection Agency: https://cfpub.epa.gov/si/si_public_record_Report.cfm?Lab=ORD&dirEntryID=45357
Journal of Trace Elements in Medicine and Biology: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jtemb.2005.07.006
Science of the Total Environment: https://doi.org/10.1016/S0048-9697(00)00433-2
Italian Journal of Orthopaedics and Traumatology: https://europepmc.org/abstract/med/1308878

Interested in learning more about hair mineral analysis testing? Grab my FREE HTMA Interpretation Guide here 

And be sure to watch my other episode about What is Hair Mineral Analysis Testing?

TRANSCRIPT

So you're interested in running a hair mineral analysis test with your clients, but everywhere online is telling you that this test is not accurate or not scientifically validated. I'm Kendra from kendraperry.net, and by the end of this video, I'm going to show you how that is 100% not true. For functional health training and online business strategies for health coaches, make sure to subscribe to my channel and hit the bell so that you get notified when I post a new video every Thursday.

Hair mineral analysis is by far one of the most powerful and informative tools that you can use with your clients, but it has a bad reputation. There are a lot of websites on the internet or maybe even your clients are coming to you and saying, "Why are we running this test? It's not accurate." By the end of this video, you will understand why HTMA is accurate and backed by scientific studies so that you can convince your skeptical followers and clients that this is actually a test they should be running.

I have been running HTMA in my health coaching practice for over three years now, I've spent so much time, probably hundreds of hours diving into the research and learning how to properly interpret this test. I love it so much that I teach this to practitioners in my HTMA expert coarse, and all of them would agree that this is a total game changer when it comes to their own health, and the transformation of their clients.

So let's discuss some of the research that actually validates HTMA testing. One of the most important studies on hair mineral analysis was done by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency in 1979. So this was a review paper, which basically means they looked at all the available research at the time, to come up with a summary in what that research was actually showing overall. So they went through over 400 different studies on hair mineral analysis for metals and minerals, and what they determined was that it was fully accurate, and a very good representation for the monitoring of most toxic metals and minerals.

In 2005 in the Journal of Trace Element Biology, 50 mothers and their newborns were studied for selenium status. And what they found at the end of the study was that there was a positive coloration with selenium levels between umbilical cord fluid, maternal blood, placenta, and the hair levels, the selenium levels in the hair levels of those newborn. And guys, I would love to know, comment below and let me know; Are you using hair tissue mineral analysis in your practice?

The next study I want to discuss was done in year 2000 by the Journal of Science of the Total Environment. So this study was designed to determine whether hair calcium concentration actually predicted mortality from coronary heart disease. This study was done in the U.K. and it was seeking to determine if environmental factors had any influence on hair levels of calcium and calcium metabolism in the body. So hair samples were collected from over 4,000 males in 40 different health districts in the U.K. And what they founds was the people living in the areas that had the hardest water, which just means that they have very high levels of calcium in their water, were also the people who had very high levels of calcium in their hair. So that alone shows that exposure to calcium is reflected in the hair biopsy sample.
 
The final study I want to discuss was done in 1994 by the Journal of Orthopedics and Traumatology. And in this study 30 patients who had had hip replacement done were studied. And usually with hip replacement, they're using some sort of metal as that hip replacement, previously it was cobalt, but these days it's usually titanium and aluminum, and in this case it was titanium and aluminum that were being used. So the sample size was split into three groups of ten, and one group was monitored after two years, one was studied after four, and one after six. So in every single group, the two year group, the four year group, and the six year group, high levels of titanium and aluminum were actually found in the hair samples, and they were especially high in the group who were looked at after six years.

So guys I'm going to link to the research I discuss in this video at the bottom of this video, and I will link to a page that basically details all the research on hair mineral analysis, there's hundreds of studies. So that you can refer to that and do some of your own research so that you can come to your own conclusion whether hair mineral analysis is actually accurate and scientifically valid.

Guys, and if you are still feeling in the dark as to what hair mineral analysis actually is, and maybe why you should be using it, make sure to watch my video titled, What Is Hair Mineral Analysis Testing. So now that you guys are hopefully a little bit more familiar with some of the research that clinically validates hair mineral analysis testing, make sure to grab my free hair mineral analysis interpretation guide for practitioners by clicking the link below.

And guys, if you like this video, make sure to let me know by liking it. Make sure to subscribe to my channel, and share this video with your fellow health coaches, anyone you think would like this information. And definitely let me know in the comments what you learned and what your biggest take-home from this video was. I would love to know.

What Causes Chronic Fatigue & How to Treat It with Dr. Evan Hirsch

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Chronic Fatigue is a common issue we see in many of our clients. And how could it not be? As Dr. Evan Hirsch describes it, there are 15 common causes to chronic fatigue, all of which can be categorized into two groups – deficiencies and toxicities. Deficiencies can be hormonal, nutrient, lifestyle and even sleep related. Toxicities include the more well known toxicities like heavy metals and mold but even other toxicities like negative emotions and electro-magnetic fields. 
 
But when working with chronic fatigue, where do you start? And what is the difference between chronic fatigue and chronic fatigue syndrome? In this episode, Dr. Hirsch describes the differences, how he determined protocols for both and solidified the fact that you can REVERSE both chronic fatigue and chronic fatigue syndrome.

On top of that we discuss a big contributor to chronic fatigue…MOLD! Mold is a growing concern (see what we did there?!) for chronic fatigue along with many other health concerns. Did you know that 50% of the buildings in North America have mold? And it’s not just the old historical buildings. New builds are seeing mold growing before home buyers even move in.

Tune in to learn about chronic fatigue – the causes and ways to treat it.

Dr. Evan Hirsch suffered with fatigue for 5 years before he achieved resolution using the Fix Your Fatigue Program that he pioneered in his medical practice. Through his best selling book, free Facebook group, group and 1-on-1 coaching, he has helped thousands of people across the nation optimize their energy and he is on a mission to help 1 million more. He is board certified in family medicine and integrative medicine and when he’s not at the office, you can find him singing musicals, dancing and playing basketball with his family.

Get Dr. Evan Hirsch's FREE download of Fix Your Fatigue here

Connect with Dr. Evan Hirsch:
Facebook Group: fbgroup.fixyourfatigue.org 
facebook.com/DrEvanHirsch/ 
linkedin.com/in/drevanhirsch/
twitter.com/drevanhirsch 
instagram.com/thefatiguedoc/
youtube.com/c/EvanHHirschMD

Grab our Ultimate Health Coaching Tool Kit complete with our top picks for platforms plus our sample contract and intake form: http://360healthbizpodcast.com

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Connect with us on social:
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@sleeplikeaboss

TRANSCRIPT


Christine:                      Hello everyone, and welcome to this new episode of the 360 Health Biz podcast for a new amazing episode and I'm so excited. So with me today are two amazing people, I had a lot of fun with on different occasions, but both times in San Diego. And this sounds a little bit lonely. [crosstalk 00:00:25]

Christine:                      One of them is obviously my wonderful cohost Kendra Perry. And then we also have Dr. Evan Hirsch who is such a great friend of me and we boogied over at Mindshare Conference night and it was so funny because I sat next to him and I had no idea that it was him, actually. I really didn't recognize him for a second. And he just smiled and it was like, "Hi! Hi, creepy dude." It was the guy from [crosstalk 00:00:51].

Christine:                      You know it's like this Superman movie, you know without your glasses and put your glasses on, now I get it. I kind of get it now. So anyway, he's super wise, I had the honor of interviewing him for a summit that I did two years ago, and so we're going to talk about chronic fatigue which I think for us practitioners, really important to understand, 'cause it's more difficult or, not more difficult, but more complex than we might think.

Christine:                      To celebrate though, we have a review, thank you, and Kendra is going to take it away and share that with you and say thank you so much, and then we're going to introduce Evan more formally and then we're off to the races.

Kendra Perry:                Awesome. So we have a really exciting review from Bella180. She says, "Love them," that's the title of her review, and then she says, "I love listening to them, they are fun and I feel they have a very relaxed way of getting a tonne of good and useful info. I totally feel like hanging out with them and being their friend." Someone wants to be our friend!

Christine:                      You are! You can hang out with us any time. [crosstalk 00:01:54] You're in the club.

Kendra Perry:                Oh my god, I love it, guys. And if you guys love us and you want to support us, really the best way to do it is to leave us a five star review on iTunes 'cause it helps us get in front of more people, get out there, and it only takes two minutes, so you can just pause the podcast right now and then go over and do that thing on iTunes. Go give us a five star review. Thank you! All right, so I want to reduce, introduce Dr. Evan Hirsch, I want to reduce him to a small man. We're going to introduce him. And I just want to quickly read his bio 'cause he's kind of big shit.

Kendra Perry:                I was just creeping on his website before I came on and I was like, "Oh my god, he's big shit, I'm getting excited." So, Dr. Evan Hirsch suffered with his fatigue for five years before he achieved resolution with the Fix Your Fatigue program that he pioneered in his medical practice. Through his bestselling book, free Facebook group, group and one-on-one Coaching," he has helped thousands of people across the nation optimize their energy and he is on a mission to help one million more. That's amazing.

Kendra Perry:                He is board certified in family medicine, integrative medicine, and when he's not in the office, you can find him singing musicals, dancing, playing basketball with his family. So tell me more about the musicals. I'm like, super intrigued.

Christine:                      I buy it. I saw you on stage, dude. I totally buy it.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            I love musicals. I love watching them, I love singing them.

Kendra Perry:                Oh my god, that's amazing.

Christine:                      Which one is your favorite?

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            "Les Mis" is definitely my all time favorite, but it really depends on the flavor of the month. "Dear Evan Hansen" is amazing, I mean I love story that's told with music, 'cause music brings out the emotion and just like, one song brings you back to the whole story and you totally feel it all over again.

Christine:                      Very true, very true. So I have Evan so much and we had this discussion before because you know, you're like my bridge guy, you're one of the board certified MDs, family doctors who I not, haughty might not be the right word, but it actually is, you know? He was actually totally fine with communicating with health practitioners who might not have gone to medical school and I find that so so important that we do have that bridge.

Christine:                      So it's going to be super exciting because we have so many different perspectives today to talk about. But, you suffered from chronic fatigue and it would be interesting because you had all this medical background already, so what was going through your head when you were tired all the time and you didn't really have an answer?

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            At that point I was already practicing functional medicine and I had come out of my residency, my wife had had fatigue three years prior and we had had a child, I finished residency, I started a practice, and then I went into fatigue, and frankly I'm not a great patient and I was just kind of pushing through and I just thought that, "This is just temporary, it's going to go away" and it didn't, and I just got worse.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            And brain fog got awful, to the point where I couldn't really remember much about the person who was sitting in front of me when I was doing my one-on-one consults. Thank goodness I had an electronic medical record where I could keep all that information in there, but once they were out of that chair, I really couldn't remember much. I could be present with them, I felt like I was practicing good care, but once they were gone, yeah it was out of my brain. And then I wasn't available for my family. I would come home and I couldn't play with my daughter.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            She was like, "Daddy let's run around," I'm like, "I just need to lie down." And I felt incredibly, my buttons on guilt and shame were pushed because I couldn't help out around the home. My wife was doing everything and I couldn't do dishes, you know I just couldn't support them and I felt awful about it. So finally I started diving into it deeper, started looking at all the research, read all the books I could, and piecing together all the causes that I could find.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            'Cause what I was realizing, and also while I was doing this you know with functional medicine lends itself to the most complicated cases, and so as I got better treating other people and I was like, "Oh, I'm having success with this, I really need to start practicing this on myself," but I found that as they were getting better that it was really all about addressing all of the causes, and so that's my huge takeaway for people is that a lot of the times people are looking for the best treatment and I find that it's not the treatment, that it's all about the causes, because if you find the causes, then you can actually tailor the treatment specifically to the cause and then you're not wasting money and time and energy treating something that you don't even have.

Kendra Perry:                So can we talk a little bit about the causes? I'm super interested what you found to be some of the primary drivers of the chronic fatigue, because I think from a conventional medical model I mean, no one really talks about that and I don't really even think there's a treatment for something like that.

Christine:                      No, I can only imagine that if you go to your doctor simply let's get some blood work done and then, you know, it might be a sluggish thyroid, but that's probably everything that there's in the toolbox. That's what I would imagine.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Yeah, conventionally it's thyroid, it's liver disease, congestive heart failure, it's like some of the more severe stuff that are usually as you get older, hepatitis, can be some of those too, but it's mainly thyroid. And so what I've found is that there's fifteen different causes of fatigue and they can really be grouped into two categories: one is of deficiencies and one is of toxicities. So the deficiencies are deficiencies in hormones, adrenals, thyroid, sex hormones, as well as nutrients, and then of course deficiencies in lifestyle stuff like sleep, deficiencies in exercise unless they're really chronically fatigued where they shouldn't be exercising. Deficiencies in water since most of us are walking around chronically dehydrated. And then [crosstalk 00:07:39] There you go, right?

Christine:                      Yeah see, you're right there and I'm just like, "guilty."

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            We're going to pause this so that Christine can go get some water.

Christine:                      [inaudible 00:07:47] Slipping on stuff and I literally came up to my office and I saw my water bottle and I was like [inaudible 00:07:52]

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Vader. And then there's the toxicities: heavy metals, chemicals, molds, infections, allergies, negative emotions, which people really undervalue. [crosstalk 00:08:06] Electromagnetic frequencies, you know all these toxicities that we're exposed to nowadays that just really cause all of those deficiencies. So, those are really, I found that there's like different levels of problems, so I'll consider a level one problem as a problem that can be fixed with lifestyle, lifestyle and diet. And the level two problem is one that can be fixed with deficiency and then level three problem is the one that people have a number of toxicities that have to be removed, and so those are the harder ones to treat.

Kendra Perry:                Yeah, you definitely come across people where you're like, "Do we even need to do testing? It sounds like you just need to stop eating fruit loops in the morning and start liking your life again."

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Right! Huge.

Kendra Perry:                Yeah, totally. That's awesome. That's such a comprehensive list, I love it, like that's exactly what I would say, so I feel like we're on the same page in that we should be friends.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Absolutely.

Christine:                      Yeah I was like, "Totally," but I'm the like, you know the person, I'm like the one in the back in the classroom like, "Aw fuck this isn't how I learned to do," you know? So there is a, I have a plan. I'm a new practitioner, which I'm not people, but you know, imagine me to do, a lazy one. But how do you work through this? It totally makes sense, right? Those are all the things where I would go, "Light bulb, light bulb," and check, check, check, and see what's going on.

Christine:                      But if I have someone, and say we just had a coach who just went to health coach school, a general health coach school, and it's like, "Oh my god, I'm totally overwhelmed right now." Do you have a priority list? How do you even tackle all of this? I mean for us, I think, after a while you just even listen to the person and you kind of see things flare up in them, like in their aura, you know, however you work. You just hear it out. But when you haven't had as many clients yet, how do you logically do this?

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            So you do kind of like what I talked about going from like level one to level three. So you start off with the stuff that you know. If you've just come out of school, you know about lifestyle and diet stuff. So you're going to clean up their diet, you're going to get rid of their grains and their gluten and their dairy and all that crap, and you're going to get them sleeping better, and you're going to start working on mindset stuff, so all of that stuff can be really great and you can get a certain number of people better. And then if you're not getting results in three months or so, depending on how often you're seeing them, then you're going to move on to level two.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            So then you're going to look at okay, let's start running some labs. This isn't that way that I do it, I get all of my labs, I try to get them all up front as soon as possible 'cause I find it saves a lot of time, but you also don't have to have your people spending $4000 on all these labs initially, 'cause that's not your specialty.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            So then you start looking at the deficiencies. So you're looking at adrenals, thyroid, sex hormones, nutrients, making sure they're drinking enough water. You know, all these sort of things. That's where I would go. And then if you're still not having success, and you also have to make sure your treatments are correct, that you're optimizing all these things. So I do ramp-ups on all of these things, 'cause most of the time the body's going to tell you when you've have enough of them. So if you're ramping up on your adrenals, you've got them nice and robust, and then you move on to mitochondrial support, and then you move on to thyroid, I call those the big three, and I ramp up on each of those to a significant amount so that you're making sure that you're giving, 'cause I like to move the needle.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            So I like to use things that are powerful and safe at the same time which is why I love natural medicine. So we ramp up on those, and that's going to give you an idea about how much, what you have to go to next, but you want to make sure that you're doing it right, that you're not just giving somebody a glandular on adrenal support, or if you're giving them, the worst is giving them adaptogens. 'Cause adaptogens are wonderfully balancing, but they're usually not strong enough and you're not going to shift the needle if somebody's got fatigue.

Kendra Perry:                Okay, I love that. I'm always saying the same thing about adaptogens. I'm just like, sure, but it's not really going to do anything. I just want to back up a little bit because I want to, can you actually tell me what is chronic fatigue syndrome, how is it diagnosed, and is there a difference between chronic fatigue and chronic fatigue syndrome, or are they synonymous? I would love to know that.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Yeah, they are totally different. Not totally, but they are different. And they're a gamut. You know, whenever I'm looking at things I'm always looking at a gamut. I don't care about these diagnoses. Chronic fatigue syndrome, according to the Institute of Medicine and CDC and stuff like that is, if you had a certain number of symptoms for six months. Well, if you've had fatigue that's not relieve, I mean the way that I define fatigue is if you have fatigue if you're tired and it's not relieved by rest.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            So if you're getting seven to nine hours of sleep a night, good sleep, and you're waking up and you are still tired, then there's a problem. And even after a week of this happening, you really need to start looking at what's going on here and what might be some of the causes. Now, if you've just had the flu that wiped you out and it's taken you a month to recover, first of it shouldn't take that long, but second off, as long as you recover and you get back to base line, like you're doing all right.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            But if it's lingering, you want to do something about it sooner than later. The body is yelling at you to do something about it. You have to listen. So I consider, and then chronic fatigue is just that persisting for several weeks to several months. It doesn't have to be six months and it doesn't have to be all those other symptoms that they talk about too.

Kendra Perry:                Yeah, it's so interesting because I say chronic fatigue a lot. Like I say debilitating fatigue, ongoing fatigue, chronic fatigue, and I say chronic fatigue a lot and I get these people messaging me on Facebook who have chronic fatigue syndrome and they're getting mad at me, 'cause they're like, "You make it sound like you can actually reverse it and get rid of it! You shouldn't say that and you shouldn't say that," and I'm like, "Well, I think you can reverse it."

Christine:                      I think you can.

Kendra Perry:                [crosstalk 00:14:09] That's kind of what I'm trying to tell you. It's just interesting. Thanks for clarifying that.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Yeah and you know that challenge is that they haven't been helped and it's been 10, 20, 30 years, so then they get pissed off at somebody talking about a way to help somebody, and either they don't have the hope anymore to explore another option. They are resigned to where they're at. So now they're just pissed off because what if you're right? What if you're right and you can heal it and that means that they've been suffering needlessly for all of these years and they don't want to take that next step because it's too scary or it's too challenging or it's too expensive or whatever they think.

Kendra Perry:                Yeah, and I think people really, a big reason why I don't like diagnoses is that people really connect with it. They bring their diagnosis into their story and-

Christine:                      They become the diagnosis.

Kendra Perry:                They become it, yeah. So I think that's a tough one to deal with for sure. [crosstalk 00:15:03]

Christine:                      They define everything by their diagnosis. "Oh, I can't do this 'cause I have thyroid," "Oh, I can't do this because I'm gluten intolerant," and it's like, work on it then! It's like...

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Although it's challenging to hold both sides, too, because often times having a diagnosis can be really comforting. You know, as long as it's the cause. Like, okay, I've got heavy metals, chemicals, molds, and infections. Yes, there's a lot of reasons why you have fatigue. So it's like, "Oh, and all of a sudden I've been suffering all this time and now I know why." That's very different than grabbing that label and being like, "I can't do things because I've got this label."

Christine:                      Absolutely. So I have a question. When we were talking about gauging the needle and not using adaptogens and things like that. I find it really hard to find research on what to use. So I use only natural supplements of course, but I find it really really difficult to know what to use, what not to use, obviously I'm in Europe, so I'm more limited as well. How did you figure out your protocols? How did you, I can imagine you had to figure it out by yourself. I can't imagine that it was just there.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Correct. Well I mean, I like to copy people who are successful and then I make modifications. And I like to ramp-up and I like to experiment, so I'm going to keep pushing the dose until the body says, "No," and I do that enough times where I get an idea about what a good dose is, what a good dose isn't, what side effects people are going to get from things like licorice root. I used to use licorice root all the time with everybody in high doses and then people started getting high blood pressure and they get all this swelling and electrolyte imbalance and I'm like, "Oh no, I've got to find something else. Licorice root is good as a part of all this, but I've got to find other things in order to complement."

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            So you look at the research, you look at what other people are doing that they say is successful, but you always have to take that with a grain of salt because everybody thinks their protocols are amazing.

Christine:                      Yeah, for sure. I'm just too overwhelmed to even change mine. [inaudible 00:17:06] Obviously they work, but I'm convinced that there could be even better ones, but literally at the moment it's just too overwhelming. I think I could fall into that rabbit hole and just not come out of it for years. Just give it to me, tell me what to do. But things are looking well, I mean that's why we take other courses and why we try to [inaudible 00:17:29]

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Right. And being curious, and when you can't help somebody that you go back to the drawing board. You don't throw the baby out with the bath water, but you say, "Okay, what am I missing?" So if they're working, awesome, that's great. If they're working 100% of the time, great, but if they're working 95% of the time then when they're not working, then it's like, "Okay, what am I missing," and that's when you learn. And that's what happened to me and in treating myself and in treating all of these people.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            I started off in integrative medicine and functional medicine where I was like, "Okay, I'm fixing all these deficiencies, I got a certain number of people better," and then there were people who I couldn't get better. It's like, "Okay, now I need to go to environmental medicine. I need to start learning more about," I never wanted to treat infections. It was always way too complicated for me and all this stuff about Lyme and I was like, "I do not want to go into that world." But then I realized that I couldn't help those people until I started learning.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            I read Horowitz's awesome book on differentiating all the co-infections and then I started learning more about these awesome supplement lines like Fire and White and Beyond Balance and a number of these that are really good at getting at the infections. I learned about LDI, Low Dose Immunotherapy, and became an expert in those things because I had to, and because it's so incredibly gratifying when somebody comes and I can say, "Oh, you've got bartonella and I know exactly how to treat you and you're going to feel better in this amount of period."

Kendra Perry:                I'm super intrigued-

Christine:                      [crosstalk 00:19:00] Because it's true! It's like, I love it. [inaudible 00:19:01]

Kendra Perry:                I know. It's overwhelming for sure, there's a lot [inaudible 00:19:04] and you have to be a forever student. But I'm super intrigued about Lyme and mold these days, 'cause yeah, that's not something I ever wanted to deal with. I would refer those people out, but now I have all these women in my group membership program where I'm like, "I think you have mold. I think you have Lyme." And now I'm like, "Oh crap. I was right about this." And so how often do you find that is involved in fatigued and what's sort of your general approach to those types of people, because I know the symptoms for the two can be very, like the same and there can be a lot of overlap with the two as well.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Yeah, there's a huge amount of overlap and so there's certain things, as I'm going through creating my group coaching program right now, there's a certain things that I asterisk where you can really kind of make a diagnosis by symptoms, but there are certain things that you can't. And a lot of the toxicities you can't because there's so much crossover. But mold is huge. I never thought I would be dealing with so much mold, but 50% of all the buildings in our country in the modern world have water damage.

Kendra Perry:                50%?! Holy crap. I was like, "What?" Okay, that's good to know.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            And most of those have mold. And so then it really depends on how much exposure you've had, what your genes look like. I don't ascribe to the Shoemaker protocol and it's entirety, but there's certain things that I pull out that I think are good. You have to assess the body, looking at mold in the body, and you have to assess the home, looking at mold in the home. Because if somebody's living in a moldy environment, I can't get them better.

Christine:                      I know, it's nuts. And I just had a client who showed me a picture and everything was green, like literally. And it was a new building, it was only five years old, but obviously they skimped on building materials, I don't know. But it's so hard because I was like, "You have to move, basically," and she's was like, "No fucking way," and I was like," Well there's not much I can do." But it's rough. I think it's so underestimated and I had just a friend last week posting on Facebook that she needs a place to go because she go severely sick and she just found out it was because of mold and she needs to move. It's nuts. I think it's a topic that, as an integrative practitioner, a functional medicine practitioner, you have to know about. And so it's on my to-do list as well.

Kendra Perry:                I still have a mold course, so I'll give you access to it, Christine. You can- [crosstalk 00:21:24]

Christine:                      Oh good. I still haven't done yours, you know! I'm like, so it's literally my course! For some reason I'm just like, I need to oh god, I need a second life, yeah.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            And Kendra if you want me to come talk about mold in your course, I'm happy to do so.

Kendra Perry:                I would love that. That would be so fantastic, because yeah, it's a hot topic. A lot of people are asking about it. I sort of know a few things like, generally to do. I'm making sure I'm asking those questions in the intake form, but yeah, I'm kind of like, "Okay, we need to do," so obviously the first step is getting out of the mold environment when it comes to mold. And then after that, I've heard that you want to do a lot of binding. Is that your approach?

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Yeah. And so, just to give you specifics, the ERMI test for the home, initially, to determine whether or not they have mold in the home, because they could, and then you want to do a urine mycotoxin test, either through Real Time Labs or through Great Plains. And so then you know there's mold in your body and whether or not there's mold in your home. If there's mold in your body and there's no mold in your home, and you know that the mold in your body is from another location, either from work or your car...

Kendra Perry:                In your car? Would that be like for people who live in like a rainy, tropical environment? Would they have moldy cars? 'Cause that can happen to anyone.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            It can happen to anybody. Oftentimes it's because the mold will get into the clothes, it'll get into furniture, it can get in get into everything and then you just basically take those clothes into your car and then your car gets moldy. But oftentimes there can be a leak in the car as well. But once you make sure, you look at all those things, you make sure the person's not being exposed to mold, then you know, "Okay, this is from a previous place."

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Like I lived in a moldy place when I was in medical school, so I was like, "Okay, my place is clean now. It means that the mold that is in my body right now is from a previous infestation, a previous exposure, and so then I need to remove that." And so then that's with binders, so there's a number of different binders. There's activated charcoal, there are the french clays, there are humic and folic acids, oftentimes using a combination can be good. There's certain binders that are better for different things. And then using glutathiones so oftentimes binding things up and using glutathione to get it out. So those are kind of the big things that I'll use.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            And then if somebody can't get out of a space, oftentimes using an air filter like IQ Air or the Air Doctor. Basically, you want something that can get mycotoxins or mold toxins which are particle size that are down to .003 microns. And so you have to use something like those two that'll get down that small. You can't just use a regular HEPA filter, because those will get mold spores. They may say "mold" on them, but that's just mold spores, that's not mycotoxins.

Kendra Perry:                Right. Yeah, that's so interesting. So what I've found with the people who I suspect have mold, they're the people who just like don't respond normally to the protocol that I give them. It seems like every time we try to do anything with them, they're like having a crazy, exaggerated, intense reaction and you're just like, "Oh my god. Like, what is going on here." And yeah, they just seem to, do their detox pathways get really clogged up or something or does that affect that? Because that's what I see.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Absolutely. Yeah, and some of the symptoms that they'll get that are less non-specific or more specific are some of the sinus stuff, sometimes they'll get ear congestion. They can get itching, so itching around the anus, itching around the ears, which can be fungi in general, it can be yeast or mold. You can get neuropathies. Often times they will walk into a place, they can detect mold instantly because they've got so much mold in their sinuses, so they can smell it, and then they know that they need to leave, otherwise they're going to start getting brain fog. So those are some of the more specific symptoms. But otherwise it's just the chronic fatigue and the sensitivities are really a big one.

Kendra Perry:                Oh man, that's so interesting. So mold is a big one. So something I'm interested about, I feel like mold has always been around, do you think there's something going on these days that is making us more sensitive to mold? Because it's not like mold is a new thing. Hasn't it always been around?

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Yes. But there's a couple things. So one is total body burden. So the more crap that you have on your liver and the more crap that you have on your immune system, the worse your going to be, so the more reactive you're going to be. If you've got heavy metals, chemicals, and molds, which then allows a bunch of these infections to become opportunistic in the body and start wreaking havoc. That's one thing.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            The other thing is kind of how buildings are made. I've got a 1920's home, it's got good ventilation. A lot of the newer homes are sealed way too soon. So usually you know, Christine you were talking about this like it's only a five year-old home. If you're driving around town, you're seeing a home being built and it's raining and it's framed, it's just being in the framing stage or whatever, it's just wood, like that home is just prime because it gets wet. As soon as they think it dries, all of a sudden they're tightening it up, sealing it up really tight, and then it's nice and warm, and that wet wood is all the sudden starting to grow mold.

Kendra Perry:                My mind is just blown. I'm building a house right now.

Christine:                      [crosstalk 00:26:53] You're like, "No!"

Kendra Perry:                I'm like, "Oh my god, what do I need to do?"

Christine:                      Yeah, but it's a problem here because all the new houses are, in Europe, have this energy pass, you know? So they need to be type A which means that they have to use as less energy as possible which means that insulation is crazy. It's supposed to be that you shouldn't even open your windows, so ventilation is inside of the house all the time. But what I can see is that yes, it's super hot all the time, first of all, you do need less energy, but it's because everything is so isolated.

Christine:                      And the thing, though, that you can see pretty much everywhere and here in Luxembourg we are building like crazy at the moment, is that even after a few years, even the outside starts to become very very green. Like it starts to mold from the outside already which just shows me that, okay, even if this is just outside, it's not in your bathroom, this cannot be healthy. And it's beautiful, like high standard buildings, but I just think that we have a building practice at the moment that hasn't been thought through. So I think it's like, yeah this is not going to work. It's going to have some effects down the line for sure.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Yeah, and what people can do proactively is just do testing, you know? Like even something cheap like a mold plate test every year, every couple of years, making sure that if you do have a leak, looking in your attic, looking in your basement. If you do have a leak that you address it as soon as possible. Oftentimes as soon as the leak happens, you're already too late or you have to start doing some remediation. But staying on top of it as much as possible. It is unfortunate, but all you can do is the best that you can, and then just make sure you've got binders on board. I recommend that most people should be consuming binders on a regular basis anyway because of all the crap that we're exposed to, so.

Kendra Perry:                Yeah, I take binders three times a day and it's like I've been doing this BioTox which is a binder of some of the stuff you mentioned: humic acid, folic acid, yucca root. Yeah, the Microbe Formulas guys, they make good products. I'm into them. Very cool.

Kendra Perry:                Okay, so mold is a big one. Can you talk a little bit about the environmental stuff, like the heavy metals and stuff? Because I love this. This is a big one and I love seeing people talking about it because I feel like, right now, gut health and infections is so trendy and popular and everyone's talking about it, but I a lot less hear people actually talking about the environmental chemicals, the environmental toxins and how that is huge in chronic fatigue.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Yeah. And you know we all start off treating the gut. It's kind of what we learn. And at some point, as you get better and you start getting sicker patients, you're gonna be treating the gut and you're not going to be having success. And then you're going to have to start looking at these other things and that's what happened to me. So yeah, heavy metals, lots of exposures. Mercury amalgams.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            I had a lot of mercury, I mean I had pretty much every cause which is why I had fatigue. And so I had a lot of mercury from growing up, I had like tuna fish several times a week. The bigger the fish, the more mercury because of all the coal plants that we have in the world right now that are producing mercury vapor that goes into our oceans. So everything that's coming out of the ocean right now has mercury in it, and the bigger the fish, the more the fat, the more the mercury. So tuna and swordfish are huge and so I had a lot of tuna fish growing up, I had mercury filling, every time you bite down you're releasing mercury vapor from that amalgam.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            So that was my exposure. Arsenic we know about issues with rice. In this country we know about runoff in some of the stuff and some of the herbs and whatnot from China. You've got industrial plant on top of the hill and then the farms down below. And that can be anywhere in the world, not just China. Cadmium from second hand smoke or smoking. So there's a lot of, and then lead, you know it's so interesting the stories that I get, people who are working with plasters or just doing art stuff or lead, lead paints, lead gasoline. So and so grew up outside a lead gas station, or their father worked in a gas station or whatever.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            The other thing that's really interesting too that people don't realize is that a lot of this stuff gets passed down from mother to child vertically through the placenta. So, moms dump all of their good stuff into their babies and all of their bad stuff. So heavy metals, chemicals, molds, infections, all this stuff are going to get dumped into the baby. Which is why there are some people who, they have have children who have autism, and they're like, "I have no clue why." And when you do the testing, they're just full of toxins.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            There's several studies now on assessing umbilical cord blood and there's 250 different kinds of chemicals and toxins that are found in umbilical cord blood. So these kids are coming out toxic, which is why, our kids are supposed to be the first generation that's not going to outlive their parents. So I mean, this is a huge problem. A lot of this stuff we are getting through that passing, through the placenta. So yeah, that's heavy metals. I don't know-

Kendra Perry:                Yeah, that generational toxicity is a big thing. Like I'm pretty sure I came into this world with a whole bunch of crap. Because my parents are like in their mid-seventies and my dad can still kick my ass on a mountain bike and I can't keep up and it's embarrassing. Generational toxicity!

Christine:                      Damn you, Karen!

Kendra Perry:                I can't keep up!

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Right, well and he doesn't have your mother's toxicity.

Kendra Perry:                Yeah, exactly. That's a good point. And I mean my parents, they were raised on eating actual farmer's food. They were raised on, I was raised in the 80's. I ate margarine and low fat everything and [inaudible 00:32:45].

Christine:                      Such a difference made.

Kendra Perry:                Yeah. So it's like when you look at all these causes, it really kind of, you're like, "Well no wonder everyone's so tired." And it's definitely the most common symptom I see in my clients which is why I really transitioned to kind of focusing on it, because originally I was doing gut and hormones and then I was like, "Everyone's so fucking tired. Maybe we should start talking about this." It's so common.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            And it's so complex. I think if you can treat autistic kids, that's like the ultimate in functional medicine. And then next is fatigue. I mean, because there's so many different causes. You have to be able to treat the gut. You have to be able to treat all these toxicities. There's just so many potential causes.

Christine:                      It's like this beautiful kaleidoscope of fangs, you know? So I'm still look for like, do you do mentorships or anything like that? I have all these courses I want to take and I'm just like, "It's too much," you know? But is it something that you do?

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            I'm going to be coming out with a course in the next six months or so with-

Christine:                      For practitioners as well, or?

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Yeah, for practitioners.

Kendra Perry:                Yeah, awesome.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Right now I'm doing the group coaching for clients, but then yeah, practitioners. And it's going to be, I'll have like live Q&A twice a month or so so that we can go over cases in addition to having the digital content so people can run their cases. And I'll do it probably as a membership model so that, if people use it for what they need and then if they don't need it, they don't need it sort of thing.

Christine:                      Sign me up!

Kendra Perry:                Me too. I love it. Yeah, I think there needs to be more courses for practitioners that kind of ties everything together, 'cause who were we interviewing the other day?

Christine:                      Tim?

Kendra Perry:                It was a doctor. Oh yeah, Tim Jackson. He's like, "There's no school for functional medicine. Sure there's a university of functional medicine, but it's not very functional." And I mean, and you still can't run the test, right? You really need to bring it together and I feel like we can all kind of like, all of us practitioners should just combine brains and make a super brain.

Christine:                      It's very true. I think we have such a huge movement and so many really smart people that come out with their protocols with, you know, what you do right now you know, Evan. Like learn from every expert and then puzzle it together. It's just like, I'm the lazy one, I just wait until all you guys come out with courses and just, you know, summarize the whole thing.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            That's not lazy, that's smart.

Kendra Perry:                That is smart.

Christine:                      I'm a CliffsNotes kind of person, you know?

Kendra Perry:                Well that's good though, 'cause a lot of people are just like you, right? They don't want to be boots on the ground, they just want to get the information from the experts and that's totally cool. No shame in that, girl. Don't shame yourself.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Yeah, no shame.

Christine:                      I got fine while I fooled with this, so it's totally fine. But I feel like there is no real hub, you know? So it is a shame a little bit, 'cause I think a lot of us have to re-invent the wheel in a way all the time. But it's obviously good if you understand everything, but it makes me and I'm sure a lot of listeners very happy to know that you're coming out with a course and a membership. So that's awesome to hear.

Kendra Perry:                We'll keep our listeners posted on that course, just [crosstalk 00:35:49]

Christine:                      Yes, please keep[crosstalk 00:35:51]

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            I will.

Christine:                      So we can let them know when it's ready.

Kendra Perry:                Okay. Can we talk a little bit about Lyme? This is another one that I'd love to pick your brain on, 'cause yeah, another one where I have the mold/Lyme people where I'm like, "You maybe have mold, but maybe you have Lyme." And we addressed mold, but let's talk a little bit about Lyme. And do you think people can still have Lyme even if they didn't notice that bullseye bite on their body?

Christine:                      [inaudible 00:36:17] thing, yeah.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Yeah, only about 10% of people actually get the bullseye rash.

Kendra Perry:                Awesome.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Yeah and oftentimes they don't have Lyme per se, like borrelia, but they can have a lot of the other co-infections. So there's a lot that can travel inside that tick or anything that takes a blood meal. So it can be ticks, it can be sand flies, it can be biting fleas, it can be blood transfusion. It can be vertically from mother to child, it can be sex, it can be kissing, like there's so many different ways that you can get a lot of this stuff. They're very opportunistic bugs.

Christine:                      I just want to create a bubble right now and just go inside.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Well and sometimes it's not even a big inoculation. I was talking to somebody yesterday who yes, he got bit by a tick. He saw this big fat tick and then he was really badly fatigued. It's like, yeah that's real causation, but for a lot of folks, they don't have that sort of thing. And oftentimes, we all have these infections.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            So bartonella is an infection that's found in upwards of 50% of all domestic animals. If you've ever been licked in the face by a cat or a dog or whatever, you probably have bartonella, but you don't have the symptoms of it because your immune system keeps it in check.

Kendra Perry:                Right.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            And so it's only when these bugs become out of balance and they become opportunistic when you get heavy metals, chemicals, molds, infections, motor vehicle accident, divorce, stressful whatever that causes the cortisol to stop managing the immune system and then these bugs come out and say, "Hey nobody's managing us anymore. Let's have a party!"

Kendra Perry:                Yeah, I would, too. I would do that exact same thing.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Exactly.

Christine:                      You and me both, girl. [crosstalk 00:38:00]

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            So you don't have to get, so a lot of us have these bugs already, you know. Epstein-barr virus. It's like being re triggered. So it's setting up an environment that is not habitable for these bugs. It's creating more of a balance and it's less about eradication because oftentimes we can't destroy them entirely. We just want to bring the volume down on them and then release the immune system. Because what I've found is if you don't have a functioning immune system, you cannot bring those bugs back into balance. And you can't have a functioning immune system if you've got heavy metals, chemicals, and molds.

Kendra Perry:                Word.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            You're not going to bring the immune system back in balance with the bugs.

Kendra Perry:                Yeah. And do you think there's a way to address Lyme that doesn't involve a ton of antibiotics? I feel like most of the Lyme people I meet, they're on a crazy antibiotic schedule. I mean like, okay well maybe that'll work, but what's going to happen after that?

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Yeah, I don't use any antibiotics and I get really good success. You know, all the research on antibiotics are, you stop the antibiotics and your symptoms come back.

Kendra Perry:                Yeah, there you go.

Christine:                      Why is nobody telling you that, right? It's like, seriously, people?

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            But the herbs will go deeper and you will get more eradication, but the challenge is, like I said, a lot of those people. So this is also a challenge of the functional medicine community is 'cause you've got the mold expert and you've got the Lyme expert and you've got the leaky gut expert, but nobody's pulling this stuff together like you're talking about with Tim.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            It's just not happening. So if somebody's focusing on Lyme and they're not getting rid of heavy metals, chemicals, and molds, then they're never going to be able to get rid of these bugs, you know? And there's good research on that too. I know that there was one study on mold and Lyme, people who had both, when they treated the mold, the Lyme went away.

Kendra Perry:                Oh, interesting.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Yeah, and it was a small study but it's still significant. I still see it a lot where we remove those things and then we can get rid of the Lyme. The other thing, too, is figuring out exactly which bug somebody has because, and this is another one of the problems with the antibiotics, is that in order to address all of them, you have to use multiples and different combinations, and the herbs are a lot more elegant in terms of how they work. But, you have to be very specific that you have. So you know, if somebody's got borrelia, AKA Lyme, they have to have symptoms of either muscle pain, joint pain, or nerve pain that moves around the body and comes and goes.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            So if you don't have those symptoms, you can't have borrelia. If you have bartonella, you're going to have three of the following symptoms, where headaches, neck pain, body pain, anxiety, depression, sleep problems, pain on the bottom of the feet, usually misdiagnosed as plantar fasciatus, cramping, usually in the calves, usually at night, cramping of the muscles, usually in the calves usually at night, thyroid problems, usually stretch marks, often times in weird places on the body. So those are all going to be, and if you have three of those, often times that can be really indicative of bartonella, especially the pain on the bottom of the feet and the muscle cramping.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            But it's huge in people who can't sleep. So Christine this is really big where-

Christine:                      This is very good. I'm going to ask them about their feet next time. I haven't done that yet, but...

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Absolutely, yeah. Ask them about-[crosstalk 00:41:27]

Christine:                      Dude, it's just like another question in my questionnaire where people are like, "Why would you want to know about this?" And it's like, "Yeah well now..."

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Yeah if I don't get people better with replacing all the deficiencies and working on all the sleep stuff that we talked about on your summit, then I go into the infections, you know. Bartonella can play a big role. And then babesia plays a huge role. Often times these people can't sleep at all. They have sweats because it's very [crosstalk 00:41:56] it's malaria where they'll have day sweats or night sweats. They usually have shortness of breath or a cough or some sort of lung issue that's happening.

Kendra Perry:                [inaudible 00:42:04]

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            And then they have really bad anxiety to the point of panic and they've got really bad depression to the point of suicidal thoughts. And most of the people that commit suicide around these things usually have babesia. So trying to fine tune, and then to make things more complicated, different parts of the country these bugs are going to look differently. Different parts of the world, these bugs are going to look differently. So I recently was at a conference where I learned that actually on the East coast, sometimes those bartonella symptoms that I just mentioned can be from babesia. It's like, "All right, great. So if I'm not having success this way, then I have to start looking for that." So it can be more complicated, but those symptoms can really help point people in the right direction. They can be like, "Oh my gosh, I totally have bartonella and nobody's ever talked to me about that before!" And the treatment's not that hard as long as, treatment's not that hard if it's straightforward, but you know you have to remove all the other crap too.

Kendra Perry:                And so it's better to kind of determine if you have these infections based on symptoms and not with testing? Or is there a way to test for these things?

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Yeah, so the blood testing is not good because when we're looking at Western blot tests or whatever for Lyme or any sort of serology test, you're looking at the immune system's reaction to the infection. So if the immune system is dysfunctional because you have heavy metals, chemicals, and molds, and if you're looking, you're trying to assess for a test where the thing that you're testing for is not working right. So I really like the DNA connections test which is a urine PCR test. And I try to provocate every test that I do. I try to provoke it. I try to push things out of their hiding spots and so what they do is they, you can either do intense exercise for 30 minutes prior to that urine test, or you can get a lymph massage prior to the urine test because a lot of this stuff is [crosstalk 00:43:54]

Christine:                      Oh, my god. My mind has been blown this entire episode.

Kendra Perry:                I know! I've taken like five pages of notes!

Christine:                      The glasses emoji is like, right in my face.

Kendra Perry:                I've got the star one, the stars eyes emoji.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Well we're recording it right? Oh no, we're not recording! Just kidding.

Kendra Perry:                No, we are. Oh my god that's happened before. Don't scare us.

Christine:                      Yeah, don't joke. But this is awesome. I'm just like, gosh, your brain.

Kendra Perry:                Yeah, this is awesome.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Just trying to drop a ton of knowledge.

Christine:                      Good, we like that.

Kendra Perry:                So good.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            And don't get overwhelmed, anybody. This is just knowledge, this is just education, you don't have to do anything about this right now. Just take it for what it is.

Christine:                      Just sign up to Evan's course once it's ready.

Kendra Perry:                Yeah, like you said if you came and talked to my practitioners, because it's so funny. I'm like going through a lesson, I'm like, "This is a lot of information. I'm probably overwhelming you," and they're like, "Bring it on! I love being overwhelmed!" It's so hilarious. I'm like, "Okay, here you go!"

Christine:                      It's true, though. Like when I get into something I'm a pit bull, like I can't let go. I want to know everything, like every little bit of it. But I think that's like a common trait. But I wish we had, like I really have this idea that at some point we need to bring all of, maybe our guests or just everyone you know together and just like, everyone has brain dump their expertise and we'll [inaudible 00:45:22]. Just like a charge [inaudible 00:45:25] all our knowledge in like one thing. Wouldn't that be amazing?

Kendra Perry:                The ultimate brain.

Christine:                      Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It would be awesome. I need to think about that. I need to do something like that. No, this is awesome, like I love it so much.

Kendra Perry:                Okay, so what haven't we talked about. I feel like we've talked about a lot of good stuff.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Let's see. Heavy metals, well we haven't talked about, so chemicals, 84,000 chemicals that we're exposed to on a regular basis. You know, everything from lipsticks and cosmetics to pesticides in our foods. There's been some good studies on before and after with kids. Feeding them an organic diet versus a non-organic diet and they have pesticides in their urine and they've got behavior issues and you remove them and they get better. And I really like the Skin Deep website [crosstalk 00:46:18]

Kendra Perry:                I use that all the time.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            EWG.org. Really important site for making sure your cosmetics are clean. You know 70%, this is coming back to heavy metals, but 70% of all lipsticks have lead in them. It's really important not to be, and these nano particles are awful, too. There's toxicities in these nano particles that are getting, it's like getting an IV of chemicals right into your body. So chemicals are a big one to avoid.

Kendra Perry:                Yeah, and I think, I mean women, I see this a lot in my membership because its for women and I mean like, they're just lathering, I mean women use so many products. When I go see my girlfriends in the city I'm like, "What the fuck is on your vanity?" There's like 500 products and I'm like, "What are you even like, do you spend like five hours getting ready in the morning? What's all that shit for?" It's crazy. It's totally crazy. And yeah, women just put it all over their skin, make up, make up's a really bad one. Really hard to find, I find, good non-toxic make up that also doesn't have metals in it. Because even some of the mineral make ups have titanium in them or different iron oxides, that sort of thing. It's a tough one. [inaudible 00:47:24] Give me an idea.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            It is.

Kendra Perry:                Yeah. And what are your thoughts on glyphosate. That's a bad one, hey?

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Oh yeah, for sure, yeah. I like to test glyphosate in people. But yeah, glyphosate is Round Up. It's that weed killer that causes a lot of neuropathies. It's very quickly becoming a cause of type 2 diabetes. Seeing as like skinny diabetes. You know people who are like, "Why do you have type 2 diabetes?" Well, it's because the pancreas has been toxified by pesticides including glyphosate. And then the insulin can't manage the blood sugars anymore.

Kendra Perry:                And which test are you using to test for glyphosate?

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            I like Great Plains. I like a lot of their tests.

Kendra Perry:                [crosstalk 00:48:05] Is it like a GPL-TOX one, or?

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            They've got a glyphosate one.

Kendra Perry:                Oh, they do? [crosstalk 00:48:12]

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Yeah, it's like $99.

Kendra Perry:                Oh, awesome. I'm going to order it today.

Christine:                      We have a different version of glyphosate over here, across the pond.

Kendra Perry:                Really?

Christine:                      Yeah. It's still glyphosate, but it's still toxic, most likely, but it's different. It's different from the US because a lot of the ingredients have been taken out because they don't qualify for EU standards.

Kendra Perry:                The EU is much ahead of North America, that's for sure.

Christine:                      There's always like, I feel a little bit better, but it's like, yeah. Still not idea.

Kendra Perry:                And so if you could choose three tests to run on every single client you ever saw, what tests would they be? What are your top three?

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Let's see. So when I do my assessment, symptom-wise I can determine adrenals, thyroid, sex hormones, mitochondria for the most part, so I don't need to test on those so much. Let's see. Heavy metals, chemicals, molds... You said three tests?

Kendra Perry:                Three tests. Only three. You can only run three.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Only run three. So I would say heavy metals and I would say urine mycotoxin for molds. Oh, and the heavy metal test would be a provocated urine test from doctor's data, and then the urine mycotoxin test from Great Plains labs, and then provocated with glutathione, and then I would do the GI map test for stool infections. And a fourth would be serology for like Epstein-barr, mycoplasma, chlamydia.

Kendra Perry:                Interesting. Very cool. I always run heavy metals test, I always run the GI test. Those are part of my top ones, too. I love it. We're on the same page, great. Love it. [crosstalk 00:50:09]

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Great. Awesome. It's always nice to get that confirmation.

Kendra Perry:                Yeah, I love it. And I'm going to look into this urine mycotoxins test. I find that really interesting. Learn a little bit more about that. Awesome, well thank you so much! This has been enlightening, both our heads exploded multiple times during this [crosstalk 00:50:24] which is a good thing, we like our heads to explode on this podcast.

Christine:                      We do.

Kendra Perry:                Do you have any last questions, Christine?

Christine:                      No, I am exhausted. I have a little brain, you know? But no, I love it, absolutely love it. I think we have to get you back on at some point to talk about your group program and all of the things that you do, you know. Client-wise, too.

Kendra Perry:                The business side of things.

Christine:                      Yeah, so we'll have to do a part two, so stay tuned for that. But thank you so much. This has been so much wisdom. I cannot wait for your program to come out now for practitioners. Like, really am like, I'm ready, go.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            All right, I'm getting on it.

Christine:                      But yeah, I think that's pretty much it. Oh, you obviously have a book, so people should obviously get that. And just tell people who-

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            Right, I've dumped a lot of my protocols into the book.

Kendra Perry:                I'm sorry is it called "Fix Your Fatigue?" Is that the name of your book?

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            It's called "Fix Your Fatigue," yeah.

Kendra Perry:                "Fix Your Fatigue," awesome I'm going to [crosstalk 00:51:17] buy it today

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            It's on Amazon. You can find more about me at fixyourfatigue.org. There's links to my free Facebook group. You can actually download right now, I don't know how much longer it's going to be up there, but you can download my book as a PDF for free right now on my website.

Christine:                      [crosstalk 00:51:34] I think I have it, actually.

Kendra Perry:                I want that. Awesome.

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            And then I've got the group program which started in January. And I'm doing live trainings, but I'm also recording all of it so people can jump in at anytime.

Kendra Perry:                Awesome. Amazing. And all your social media handles are Fixyourfatigue, hey?

Dr. Evan Hirsch:            They are, yeah. DrEvanHirsch or Fixyourfatigue.

Kendra Perry:                Okay, perfect. Awesome. All right, guys, thank you so much for joining in. Remember, we love Instagram stories, so take a screen shot of this episode if you're listening and share it to your stories. Mention @360HealthBizPodcast and we will share it back to our stories and we will be mutual friends on Instagram. And follow us if you're not already following us and thanks so much guys. As always, we really appreciate you hanging out with us and dealing with our ridiculous talks, and we will see you again in two weeks time. Bye!

Christine:                      Bye!

What is Hair Mineral Analysis Testing?

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The Hair Tissue Mineral Analysis (HTMA) test is my FAVORITE of all functional testing. What is hair mineral analysis testing you ask? It is an affordable functional lab test that provides a non-invasive biopsy of EVERYTHING going on in that body of yours. It can test for thyroid function, adrenal function, inflammation, digestive issues, heavy metal toxicity, and much, much more! HTMA Hair Analysis it THE best functional nutrition testing method - it's affordable, it's accurate and it's my test of choice for all my clients.

Get my FREE HTMA Interpretation Guide: https://go.kendraperry.net/htma-guide

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TRANSCRIPT

So maybe you have heard of hair mineral analysis testing and maybe you're feeling just a little bit intrigued, but overall you don't really know what the heck it is. So guys, I am Kendra from Kendraperry.net and in this video I'm going to help clear that up. For functional health training and online business strategies for health coaches, make sure to subscribe to my channel and hit the bell so you can be notified every single Thursday when I post a new video. So hair mineral analysis is the primary test that I use in my practice and it has honestly been the biggest tool for transformation in my clients. But it's not really a mainstream functional test, and for that reason, a lot of health coaches are in the dark as to what it actually is and how it can actually help their clients and their business.

By the end of this video, you will know exactly what hair mineral analysis testing is and why you should be using it in your practice and with your clients. So all of my students in hair mineral analysis would 100% agree that this test has been absolutely paramount in their own health journeys, but also the main thing that has helped with the transformation of their clients and growing their business. So number one, what is HTMA? So HTMA stands for hair tissue mineral analysis and basically it's a noninvasive biopsy of cellular activity in the body. So we are taking about an inch and a half of hair, so about that much from the scalp and we know that the hair is just dead cells so basically we're seeing what's going on with minerals within the cell. Because it takes about three to four months to grow that strand of hair, we actually get that average of what's been going on in the mineral system inside the cell over that longer timeframe.

So number two, what type of information can you actually get from HTMA? So you can actually get a ton of crazy information about a person's unique biochemistry. So I can tell about fibroid health, adrenal health, blood sugar regulation, inflammation, the status of the nervous system, immune system activity. I can see search for cellular dehydration. I can tell about stomach acid levels. I can tell about digestion. I can tell about the likelihood that somebody has an infection. I can tell about copper toxicity or heavy metal toxicity. I can look for signs of chemical sensitivity. I can even determine something like iron deficiency.

So there is a ton of information you can get from a hair mineral analysis and the main reason for this is because the minerals are the spark plugs of the body. They're basically involved in every single chemical reaction in the body. Anytime your body does anything, blinks, moves an arm, goes to sleep, whatever, whatever your body is doing, there is a mineral involved. Specific minerals are involved in specific functions or glands or activities in the body. So by looking at the various balances between those minerals, that's how we can tell how the thyroid gland might be functioning or the status of the adrenal health or how someone is actually regulating their blood sugar.

The other amazing thing about hair mineral analysis is you can actually get a window into a person's personality, emotional health, and how they actually react to stress. It's super interesting when I go through these panels with clients because they kind of think I'm a witch because I'm basically telling them exactly how they feel, how they act, how they react to certain things, their emotions, and it's pretty amazing because it does correlate incredibly well. So guys, let me know in the comments below if you are thinking of utilizing HTMA in your practice and let me know what's maybe holding you back from actually employing it.

Finally, why should you actually be using hair mineral analysis with your health coaching clients? So number one, it's a very noninvasive biopsy. A lot of biopsies are painful. People need to go to the doctor, they need to get a surgery to get that biopsy. But with the hair, it's very simple and easy to collect and you don't actually need that much hair. So some people feel a little bit nervous about giving hair, but it's actually a very, very small amount. I test my hair every two months and the only person who can tell is my hairdresser who's like, "Did I do that?" I'm like, "No, no, I did that. Don't worry about it."

The other reason why you should be using hair mineral analysis is because it's incredibly affordable. It's super cheap. It's literally the most affordable functional test that you can access. I believe the biggest barrier to functional medicine is the cost, right? A lot of different practitioners or testing packages are thousands and thousands of dollars, but a hair mineral analysis is less than a hundred dollars. So it's an incredibly affordable way for your clients to get their feet wet with functional testing, for you to get a little bit more of a scientific understanding of your client, and it's really great for your clients who maybe have economical limitations. It's also a fantastic way just to get people in the door because you can run that test, get all that information, employ targeted strategies, get that person results, and then suddenly they're on board. They're like, "Okay, I'm on board. This is working for me. I'm getting results and now I'd like to upgrade to your bigger package or I'd like to run those other lab tests that you recommended."

So I alluded to this before, but minerals are the spark plugs of the body. They're involved in every single function of the body. So if you have mineral deficiencies and mineral excesses, metal toxicities, or an imbalance between your minerals, the body's not going to function. If you don't have what you need, those basic building blocks for good health then your clients are going to really struggle with results, with getting results. I find that a lot of people are so depleted or so bottomed out with minerals that they can't even handle going through a gut protocol or eliminating pathogens or taking a lot of supplements because their body literally doesn't have the tools it needs to function.
 
So with minerals, when we balance the mineral system, we really do build the body up and we give the body those basic building blocks that it needs to function as it should. So it is a really great starting point with your clients and when you get the minerals into balance, you can have a really positive influence on all different types of systems in the body. So in terms of thyroid, for example, I use hair mineral analysis to assess thyroid status and I actually reversed a lot of hyperthyroid or thyroid issues just by getting the thyroid specific minerals in balance. So it's a very noninvasive, gentle way to get a person healthy. So I really do believe it is something you should be utilizing in your practice because not only is it affordable, it gives you a ton of information and it will help your clients who are struggling to even do the most basic protocols because their system is just so burnt out, so depleted and it can't even do regular function.

Okay guys. So now that you know what hair mineral analysis testing is and now that you're thinking, "Maybe this should be something that I include in my health coaching practice," make sure to grab my hair mineral analysis interpretation guide for practitioners by clicking the link below. Guys, and if you liked this video, make sure to let me know by hitting the like button, subscribing to my channel and commenting below and let me know how this video helped you or what your biggest take home messages and make sure to share it with all your fellow health nerds.

How to be Authentic on Social Media Without Oversharing

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Authentic is the new online marketing! But how do you be your true authentic self without sharing EVERYTHING? You can find out how to be authentic on social media without oversharing and building an authentic online brand by watching this video. I provide 3 easy tips on how to build authenticity in your brand. Build your brand persona without sharing details you don’t want to. I can help you do this and answer how to be your authentic self in business and how to be an authentic brand. Tune in now and learn how to be authentic without oversharing!

Get my FREE Guide - 10 Things I Wish I Knew as a New Health Coach here: https://go.kendraperry.net/10-things

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TRANSCRIPT


All the business gurus out there are telling you to be authentic and real on social media, but how do you share without oversharing? I'm Kendra from kendraperry.net. That's what we're going to break down in this video. For functional health training and online business strategies for health coaches, make sure to subscribe to my channel and hit the bell so you get notified every single time I post a video on Thursdays.

Authenticity is the new online marketing, but how do you know when you've crossed the line? When is it good to share, and when have you gone just a little bit too far? By the end of this video, you will have three tips on how to share your personality, be authentic and genuine online without oversharing and turning off your followers.

After running a business for over four years, I really do understand the power of infusing personality and vulnerability into my marketing. I actually think it might be one of the single most important things that I have done that helped me build a six figure business in less than three years. When is sharing too much sharing?

My first tip for sharing yourself on social media and online is to start slow. Don't go overboard on sharing your entire personal life right off the bat. Start by sharing small details. For example, maybe you've struggled with sleep and you've found some tools that have really helped you. Maybe share why it's been so hard for you not to sleep, how that's affected you, but give those actionable tips or those tools that have really helped you. They actually might also help your following.

Number two is to infuse a take home message into your story or into what you're sharing, and always try to bring it back to them and how it can actually help them. Don't use social media as a dumping ground for your personal problems or all the crappy things going on in your life. Yes, you want to share the things that aren't going well. It makes you more human. It's okay to share your struggles, but don't just make it about you. Always bring it back to them. Share your struggle, but then bring it back to what's the take home message? What can they learn from the situation that you experienced? What is the take home message?

Guys, so let me know, how does sharing your personality and your personal life on social media make you feel? Let me know in the comments below.

Number three is to realize that it's totally okay to keep some things to yourself. You don't need to share everything. If it doesn't feel good in your heart or in your gut, wherever you feel it, then don't share it. We want to keep some things private. If it's not something you don't feel comfortable sharing, if you don't think there's a message to be learned from it, if it just doesn't feel right, then you definitely do not have to share it. Make sure to only share things that you feel comfortable sharing, and it always starts to... Start slow, start sharing a little bit, and then find where your comfort level is at.

Guys, if you are a new health coach and you were wondering, "Well, how the heck do I actually make money as a health coach?" Make sure to check out my video titled How To Make Money As A Health Coach.

Now that you hopefully feel a little bit more comfortable and a little bit more at ease with being vulnerable online, make sure to grab my Insider's Secrets Guide, 10 Things I Wish I Knew As A New Health Coach. You can grab that in the link below. If you like this video, make sure to let me know by liking this video, subscribe to my channel and definitely share this with your fellow health coach nerds. Make sure to comment below, let me know what you learnt from this video and what your biggest take home from it was.

How to Make Money as a Health Coach

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Do you want to learn how to market your health coaching business? In this episode I will provide you with the top 3 ways on how to make money as a health coach. If you want to make money as a health coach..like we are talking six figure health coaching here, then you’ve come to the right place. These health coaching career tips will teach you how to grow your health business and help your health coaching online business. I love watching health coach videos, I love making them and nowI want to help you answer the question “how do I grow my health coaching business?”

Get my FREE Guide - 10 Things I Wish I Knew as a New Health Coach here: https://go.kendraperry.net/10-things

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TRANSCRIPT


You have your health coaching certificate, and you're pretty excited, but now that you have it, you're kind of wondering, "Well, how do I actually make money as a health coach?" For functional health training and online business strategies for health coaches, make sure to subscribe to my channel, and hit the bell to get notified every time I post a video on Thursdays.
There are a lot of good health coaching schools out there. There's ITN, FDN, IIN. There's lots of good ones, and I think a lot of them do a really good job at teaching you about health and nutrition, but a lot of them are actually lacking in the business department. The ones that actually do teach business like the one that I went to are actually teaching a very outdated business model that leads to basically you going broke and burning out.

By the end of this video, you will know the top three things that you need to focus on as a health coach to make money in your business. Just so you know, guys, this is totally possible. I hit six figures in my business in less than three years, and I didn't get any business training in my health coaching school. I'm totally self-taught. I did this all on my own. Honestly, if I can do it so can you.

Before you go out and do anything for your business, the first thing you need to do is you need to sit down with a piece of paper or some sort of text app and you need to really think about who you want to help. You need to niche down as much as possible. As much as you got into this because you want to help as many people as possible, it's actually not possible to help everyone.

If you try to help everyone, you will help no one. It's really important to get incredibly clear on who you actually help. Who is that person? What gender are they? What age range are they in, how much money do they make? What keeps them up at night? What is the problem that you actually solve for them? Maybe, you help women who are struggling with fatigue, get more energy so they can create better lives for themselves and have more energy to play with their kids.

When you think of it this way, you probably have a woman, maybe she's in her 30s to 40s. She has one kid, maybe two kids, maybe three, and she really wants to be a good mother but she's not feeling like she's hitting that mark because she just doesn't have the energy. She goes to bed tired. She wakes up tired. Then, she just doesn't have enough energy to actually give her kids the attention that she wants.

See how specific that is. That will make your marketing more easy. When you post content on social media, you'll know exactly who you're talking to. If I am a mother with fatigue and kids who I don't feel like I'm giving enough attention to because I'm so tired, if I stumble on your social media panel or social media channel or your website, that is going to speak to me. That is going to be something that I need and I'm going to be pretty up for following you and listening to pretty much everything you have to say.

The next thing you want to focus on is to get out on social media and give value and share a little bit of your personality. But the biggest mistake that I see new health coaches make is they try to be everywhere at once. Because of that, they get very overwhelmed or they just do kind of a crappy quality job on each individual platform.

My advice is to try not to be everywhere at once. You can't be everywhere at once, but to choose one social media platform, one that resonates with you, one that maybe you actually like to be on or one where maybe your ideal client might be hanging out. Then, focus all your attention, all your resources and provide specific high-value content specifically for that platform.

Maybe, you love being on Instagram. Maybe, Instagram is your thing. That's where you spend most of your time, and you think maybe your ideal client, your mom with fatigue and a family, maybe she's going to be out there hanging out on Instagram. Focus on Instagram and learn about Instagram. Figure out what types of content does best on Instagram or maybe you like being on Facebook. Maybe, that's your place and you feel like your ideal client is hanging out on Facebook.

Educate yourself on Facebook, and figure out what types of content does Facebook actually like and what types of content should you be creating for that specific platform. Don't be overwhelmed by other health coaches out there who are on multiple social platforms that 100% is not how they started, and there's a good chance that they have a team of people behind them that are making this content for them.
It's not actually possible to do all of this yourself. In the beginning, it's better to focus on quality over quantity. Choose one social media platform and figure out how to optimize it. Guys, and I would love to know how do you feel about social media. Does it make you feel overwhelmed? Let me know in the comments below if it makes you feel kind of overwhelmed.

The third thing to know as a new health coach is do not try to sell one-off sessions. This is kind of the business model that you were taught in a lot of the nutrition training that you did. Let me tell you, it's incredibly outdated. You will never succeed doing this model. You will probably go broke. You won't make enough money and you are sure to burn yourself out because if you think about it, if you're selling like a session for $100 and you're just doing these one-off sessions and maybe you're following up every couple months, you're literally going to have to sell like 80 to 100 of these sessions a month, which means you need to find 80 to 100 clients each month which is frigging impossible. It doesn't work.

As a health coach, you are not working like a doctor or a naturopathic doctor. You are a health coach. You are selling transformation. This means that it's very important to sell packages. You want people that are actually ready to commit and are ready to not only invest financially but invest their time in getting to a solution.

If you just sell one-off sessions, there's a good chance that those people are not going to get results, that they're not committed and you may never see them again. But if you can sell a package and get people to pay for some type of program upfront, they are not only going to be invested, but they are going to be committed, and you're going to be working with them over maybe two, three months, maybe six months, maybe even a year. Those people are way more likely to get results because they are committing to that bigger package and because you're guaranteed to get that time with them.

Do not try to sell one-off sessions. Do not do it. Don't do it. I'll say that again. Don't do it. Sell packages. You want to sit down and come up with your package for your ideal client. If it's your mom who's dealing with fatigue, you're going to come up with maybe three-month get more energy type of package. It's going to include this amount of sessions maybe some resources, some level of support.
Maybe, you offer Voxer support. Maybe, you offer email support or Facebook messenger support, whatever it is. It's going to be this all-inclusive package that people are going to pay you up front for. Let me tell you, guys, that financial investment in a person's health is very much a part of that transformation.

What you're going to notice is the people that you give something to for very cheaper, even free, they're probably not going to take advantage of that free thing, and they're probably not going to stick with it. In the beginning, I offered a bunch of free packages to people because I wanted to get experience, but none of those people actually stuck with it because they weren't actually invested because they didn't have to give something away of value to get that thing that they actually wanted.

That financial commitment to paying for that package upfront, very, very important, and it is going to contribute to the results in the transformation that they get in the end of your program. Now that you know where to start as a new health coach and where to focus your time, make sure to grab my free insider's secret guide, the 10 things I wish I knew as a new health coach. You can get that by clicking the link below.

Guys, and if you like this video, please let me know by liking it below. Make sure to share it with your fellow health nerds and definitely leave me a comment and let me know what your biggest takeaway was and how this video helped you.

The Podcasts You MUST Listen To For Health Coaching

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LISTEN TO THE EPISODE

Podcasts are our go to learning tools for business & marketing. While Kendra listens to true crime podcasts before she goes to sleep at night, Christine finds community in listening to podcasts (thankfully not within the true crime podcasts). You can listen to ANY podcasts ANY WHERE at ANY TIME. In this episode, we delve into our top 10 favorite podcasts about business and health. The commonality of them all – real hosts with great tips and fun energy. Tune in to this episode to find out what great podcasts we listen to!

Podcasts we discussed:

The Goal Digger Podcast

The Art of Paid Traffic

The Sunny Show

Chris Masterjohn

The Energy BluePrint Podcast

The Business of Becoming

Being Boss Podcast

You Need a Budget

The Speaker Lab

She’s Got Moxie

 Join Up Dots

Grab our Ultimate Health Coaching Tool Kit complete with our top picks for platforms plus our sample contract and intake form: http://360healthbizpodcast.com

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@kperrynutrition
@sleeplikeaboss

TRANSCRIPT


Christine Hanse: Hello, wonderful people out there. Welcome to a new episode of The 360 Health Biz Podcast today with the hostess of the mostest times two, we have the wonderful Kendra Perry coming in live from Nelson, Canada. Lovely, and very refreshed from a little spa time out, which we can never have enough of when we do heavy lifting, lots of hustling, we do our time out; and myself, Christine Hansen. We're super excited to talk to you today. This episode is going to be a little bit meta because we're going to look at other podcasts that we actually like and that we love listening to. Just giving you guys some ideas on what else you can put into your subscribe list. Obviously, you will have us on there already.

Kendra Perry: I think so.

Christine Hanse: Obviously, you adore us and you've left us a review on iTunes. We actually want to thank one of you who's done that. Kendra, I'm going ahead and give this over to you and just have a quick thank you session here. Then we're going to get straight into our material of this week.

Kendra Perry: Awesome. Thanks, Christine, for the wonderful intro as always. Yeah, I'm pretty excited about this review because I know they don't make it the easiest for you to review podcasts. It's too bad. You can't just do it in the app. You actually have to go to the website. We are very grateful from Shelby, too from Canada, a fellow Canadian. She says, "OMG, Kendra and Christine are hilarious. I love how fun they are, and I often find myself laughing out loud. They provide a ton of valuable education on so many important topics. They make marketing fun. I love you, ladies, so much and I anxiously await for Wednesdays so I can get the latest episode. Thank you so much for helping me grow my business." Oh my gosh.

Christine Hanse: Oh, if it's just to see both of our faces go like huge smiley face from space, this is worth it on its own to write a review, literally. We're purring away here.

Kendra Perry: We are. You just boosted our egos so much. That's great that you're laughing because that's what we want. [crosstalk 00:02:07]

Christine Hanse: We need some boosting, Kendra, for real.

Kendra Perry: We need some ego-boosting always.

Christine Hanse: That's great.

Kendra Perry: That's exactly what we want. We want you to laugh, we want you to learn because marketing and functional health aren't always the most sexy topics. We try to make it sexy over here, right?

Christine Hanse: Absolutely. That's why I'm wearing the makeup today and no pants, so there you go. [crosstalk 00:02:31]

Kendra Perry: Because we're in such different time zones, Christine's in Europe. I'm in Canada. I'm just waking up so I'm always like, "Err, it's the morning. I need my coffee." You're always so glammed up. You got your nice earrings, and your hair is beautiful. It's just a top polarizing.

Christine Hanse: Yeah, energy was dropped. By the time I put my top, I was like, "Yeah." That's it.

Kendra Perry: It always counts anyways over [crosstalk 00:02:56].

Christine Hanse: Anyways, it's going to be a great episode, as always. You can always head over to our website where you can also read the transcript to have a video with our beautiful faces. Come and visit us over on Instagram. Kendra is walking the chisels out of Instagram stories. It's hilarious. We both discovered that we have way too much time on our hands to play around with it. You laugh. It's fun. It's super fun. Anyway though, both of us got into this. I have my podcast. Actually, it was pretty soon when I started my second business, Sleep Like A Boss. I launched a podcast really, really quickly. It actually became pretty big out. I don't know why really. There are so many things in my business. I didn't know why. Podcast and for me and for Kendra, it's just something that we love listening to. I listened to lots of them, but I have to say it was essential when I started my business.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, I'm a podcast fan. I'm always listening to podcasts. Anytime, I'm walking or moving and before bed at night, I actually listened to true crime podcasts and legal podcasts. That's what leads me to sleep at night, murder and legal proceedings. It's funny little piece of information about me. I'm super twisted in the brain, but we're not talking about true crime podcast. We're gonna talk about some of our favorite business and marketing podcast, plus a few of the functional health podcasts that both of us listen to. I mean, I love podcasts because there's so much easier to consume than video, right? I don't have time to watch video. I almost never watch it. If I'm not working on my computer, I'm up and I'm moving around. I'm doing shit, right? That's why I love podcast. You can learn so much. So much of my knowledge in business and marketing is actually from a lot of the podcasts I listened to.

Christine Hanse: I found it was a sense of community for some reason. When I started out, I didn't know who to talk to yet. At that time, that's actually my first suggestion. It's the format has changed quite a bit. At the time, when I started out, it was really coincidence. I don't remember how I got to them, but it's the Being Boss podcast.

Kendra Perry: Who does that one?

Christine Hanse: Two ladies, it's fantastic. It's very much aimed at creatives. Then, at the time, they had a Facebook group too, The Being Boss Facebook group. I think it's through the Facebook group that I found the podcast. It grew so big. Actually, they closed it down at some point because it was just too big. That was not where they wanted to have their energy. The format has changed a little bit, but I really loved it because you had sound business advice, but in such a fun way. I laughed out loud so many times. Actually, Emily and Kathleen, the two gals who are on the podcast really remind me a little bit of us in terms of just laughing and being very honest natured.

Christine Hanse: I really admired them because they took their very real as to the struggles as well. That moment when sometimes you have to stare into the abyss. It's just the entrepreneurial journey. It's a very, very, real, lot of tips, fun. They also have super interesting guests on their podcast. It was actually a sleep expert at some point. What was her name. Oh, right. It's me. I was on that too.

Kendra Perry: Famous plug.

Christine Hanse: I know totally. It was quite a big deal. I just got into it because a friend of ours that are meant just introduced us. At the time I was talking about baby sleep too, and Kathleen wasn't sleeping because her kid is as old as mine. Se she still had sleep issues. It's still a really great podcast. That's the first one I listened to. It makes me feel less alone in this world in kind of, "Oh, this is what an entrepreneur actually does." I really loved it. That's my first suggestion.

Kendra Perry: That's awesome. Yeah, it's so true because when you're working from home, when you're working alone, especially if you're new to being an entrepreneur, you don't realize that there is a community of people out there in the world. Maybe not in your town or in your city, but there's a lot of us out there just like you. That community is super important because it's very isolating sometimes doing what we do.

Christine Hanse: All right. Kendra, all yours.

Kendra Perry: I'm gonna actually start with talking about The Goal Digger Podcast, not the gold digger podcast, but that might be interesting too. Well, this is the Goal Digger Podcast. You guys might be familiar with Jenna Kutcher. She's a wedding photographer turned online marketing expert. I really love her podcast. I mean, she makes me laugh because she's super American, very, very American in the nicest way. She's just super positive, super happy, optimistic. She loves to go to church, and she loves all those American. [crosstalk 00:08:00] I love American. I think they're fantastic, but she's just ... I listened because sometimes it's just she's so optimistic and almost so cheesy. That being said, her podcast episodes are super actionable, right?

Kendra Perry: I often listen to her episodes, even when they don't have a lot to do with me, even when she's talking about a topic that maybe doesn't really make sense for me and my business, but just the information in it is so good. It's so actionable. All her episodes, I think she just crushes that. If you wanna learn about Instagram, or email marketing, or being vulnerable, she covers all those topics. She's also a really good one to follow on Instagram because she's done a really good job with building her Instagram following. She has a massive following, but she has very different topics that she talks about.

Kendra Perry: She has the online business, but she also shares a lot about positive body image, right? She posts a lot of photos of her in her underwear and her bikini. She's a very beautiful curvy woman, and I love that. She's probably multiple different audiences, but she's very good at being vulnerable in sharing herself, which is very important in today's marketing world. She's definitely an inspiration.

Christine Hanse: That's great. I absolutely love it. Perfect. You have to know that I told Kendra that I thought she was very good at piano when we met. She was so flattered. [crosstalk 00:09:21].

Kendra Perry: I was super flattered. I was like, "You can have your feed. Oh, my God. I'm just a small-town Canada girl. This is so great." She talks like that. Maybe she's so American. I was like, "You're such a darling."

Christine Hanse: All right. My second one, I really have to say I don't listen to podcast that regularly. Those are literally the ones that I have on my subscription library here, but I did listen to all of them. It's actually a podcast that belongs to an app. The app is called You Need A Budget or YNAB, Y-N-A-B, You Need A Budget. It's a budgeting app. It's changed my life. I'm ignoring it at the moment. Come on. I always love to fill it up when money comes in.

Kendra Perry: The app is called You Need A Budget.

Christine Hanse: Yes, the app is called You Need A Budget. You can use it on your computer and on your phone. It's really helping you to budget and to get a grip on your finances.

Kendra Perry: Oh, yeah. That's awesome.

Christine Hanse: Really good. It's really, really, really good. They have a matching podcast that obviously talks about the content of the app. It also really talks about what can you do in order to prepare for tax returns. He talks about ... He is basically the CEO from YNAB. He also talks about the company and the challenges they go through, which I think is interesting for any startup or any company whatsoever. They also talk about stories. They have people who were in massive debt and how they use YNAB, obviously, to get out of it. Even if it's success stories, you always learn a lot about it. I just think it's so important that we tackle our finances and not ignore them. I do right now. I really have to face the music.

Christine Hanse: It's a good thing. Also, goals, got money goals, anything that has to do with basically finances. It's just really down to earth. It's super short. Each episode is really short. I just like it because we need to, yeah, we need to, I don't know, take control of our finances. Not be scared of all of these topics. Whether use that or another budgeting app, it doesn't matter. I just think that advice is really good. It's very, very down to earth. You don't run a business if you don't make money in the end.

Kendra Perry: It's the less sexy part of being an entrepreneur, but we do need to be very involved in our finances. I feel sometimes health professionals, health coaches, are the worst offenders for feeling icky and weird about money and ignoring it. Just feeling overwhelmed by it, not wanting to deal with it, maybe pushing it aside, or just feeling like it's gross. If you wanna be successful and not go into debt, you need to be very involved in your finances.

Christine Hanse: I'm super, super proud that I'm not in debt. I don't wanna be ... Sometimes just a little bit overdraft, but I don't have any credit or anything. [crosstalk 00:12:08]

Kendra Perry: Yeah, totally. I actually did my own bookkeeping up until two months ago. For almost five years in business, I did all my own books. Eventually, it just got to the point where it's like, "I can't do this anymore. This is ridiculous. Why am I doing this?" I got a fantastic bookkeeper, but I was always very involved. I knew exactly where my money was going, where my expenses, how much I was making. I was very much involved in that process. I think that helped.

Christine Hanse: I really wasn't didn't have, really didn't have.

Kendra Perry: That's not for everyone. I'm pretty good with numbers. I don't love them, but I very much I'm a bit controlling with my money. It was really important for me to do it myself. Now, when my bookkeeper hands over my monthly report, I know exactly what I'm looking at. I know, I can actually pick out if she's made mistakes or something was missed because I know exactly what I'm looking at.

Christine Hanse: Wow.

Kendra Perry: I think that was important for me. I mean, maybe not for everyone. For a lot of people, that might be the first thing they outsource, right? They might outsource their bookkeeping.

Christine Hanse: I think some of it is you have to do on your own, and it just takes discipline. It's just a habit like everything else. It just keeping track. I'm much more flowy, but that can get me into trouble. I actually have to force myself to be very disciplined with it, but it's fun in the end. The app is super easy to use too. Definitely something I would recommend.

Kendra Perry: The app is You Need A Budget, and the podcast is called when?

Christine Hanse: You Need A Budget too?

Kendra Perry: You Need a Budget too, okay, so both are the same. Okay, cool. Awesome. All right. The next one I wanted to bring up. This is another marketing one. It's called the Art Of Paid Traffic. The host is Rick Mulready. I really love this podcast because he does these quick tips. A lot of it is based around paid traffic, paid ads. He's definitely your Facebook ads experts. If you're running Facebook ads, definitely subscribe to his podcast. I don't listen to a lot of the longer episodes, although there's really great episodes. He does case studies. He'll do various case studies on people with different types of businesses and how they doubled their ROI with this much ad spend.

Kendra Perry: He'll go through all different people in different businesses, but he does these quick tip episodes once a week. They're really good for just staying up to date with what's going on in paid traffic, with what's going on in Facebook ads. Again, anytime Facebook brings in new metrics or they're switching things up on the ads platform, the ads dashboard, he'll inform you and tell you what's up.

Christine Hanse: That's golden. I logged into my Facebook dashboard, apps dashboard for the first time in probably eight months. It's like, "What?" I'm lost. I need to start from scratch. I'm like, "Oh god. I don't know."

Kendra Perry: They're constantly updating it. That's how I stay up to date, because I'm not gonna be the one to get on support with Facebook and talk to them and read the reports and tasks. He does that stuff. He keeps you informed about it. Actually, the other day, I learned that ... If you guys run Facebook ads, the relevant score is being taken away. The relevant score is the score that you get out of 10 that tells you how relevant your ad is. If you have a really low relevance score, it's not performing well. You should shut it off, versus having a ... The thing, the issue with that metric is it doesn't tell you why that's not working. You're like, "Okay, my relevant score is low, but is it the copy? Is that the image? Is it the landing page? Is it my targeting?" You have no idea.

Christine Hanse: It's like being dumped, but you don't know why.

Kendra Perry: You're like, "Was it me?" [crosstalk 00:15:41]

Christine Hanse: ... awesome sex too much for you?

Kendra Perry: Was I not good in bed or something? What's going on? You have no idea why. Obviously, I'm great in bed. That was never why he broke up with me. What they're doing is they're replacing the relevance score with five different metrics that's actually gonna determine why.

Christine Hanse: That's good.

Kendra Perry: Why your ads are not working? That's the stuff that I learned from that podcasts. It's the Art Of Paid Traffic. Yeah, it's a good one for those quick tips. It just helps you stay up to date with Facebook ads, but also what's going on with LinkedIn ads, or Pinterest ads. He covers it all. It is good because Facebook ads are expensive these days. You really have to know what you're doing, but whereas there's a lot of opportunity and other types of ads out there right now. You have different platforms. That is one of my favorites.

Christine Hanse: I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised. All right. The next one that I haven't because I love public speaking, it's called The Speaker Lab Podcast with Grant Baldwin. It's basically everything that has to do with speaking. How can you get booked on different stages? How can you create an event around your speaking gigs? He has lots of different speakers come in, or people who, the event planners, what they are looking for, how you create the speech, how you handle those, all of that like stuff. Basically everything that has to do with speaking. My plan for this year is really to have more speaking in my business.

Christine Hanse: I'm doing that right now. I'm focusing on that even further. I have a German-speaking speaker agency, and I'm pitching some US ones as well soon. It's definitely part of my business model. I like listening to him. I find some people have a really nice pace as well. It's one of these podcasts that when I just need to drive and the not mellow, but just have company, I just listened to him. I like it a lot. That's a good one to listen to.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, and I love how much you're bringing public speaking into your business. I think it's really powerful. You're everywhere. You're famous. You're my famous friend who's been featured in all the big publications. You're on TV, no big deal, whatever. I think you're so cool.

Christine Hanse: Yeah, totally.

Kendra Perry: It's not a big deal.

Christine Hanse: It's my goal. I love doing it. I'm hustling a little bit more at the moment to get that off the ground, but he has really good tips there so cool. If you are into speaking, I definitely suggest that.

Kendra Perry: What was the name of it?

Christine Hanse: The Speaker Lab.

Kendra Perry: The Speaker Lab.

Christine Hanse: With Grant Baldwin.

Kendra Perry: Make sure I will kill. Make sure I'll get that in the show notes so that you guys can find these podcasts. The next one I want to talk about. This is one of my favorites because I just love the host so much. She's a fellow Canadian. Her name is Sunny Lenarduzzi. We actually saw her speak at Social Media Marketing. [crosstalk 00:18:43].

Christine Hanse: Kendra's eyes turned into the little heart emoji, the emoji with the heart eyes. That's Kendra when she talks about Sunny.

Kendra Perry: I know, I'm a fan girl. I'm one of Sunny's fan girls, for sure. At Social Media Marketing, I was like, "Oh my god, it's Sunny. Oh my god." I just think she's great. She lives in Vancouver. She's a fellow Canadian, but she also crushes it. She's definitely your go-to for YouTube. She's a YouTube expert. I've taken her YouTube For Bosses' course and it's fantastic. Really, really good. She makes amazing YouTube videos. Her podcast, The Sunny Show is actually great. She has that same style, nice flow. She's really relatable.

Kendra Perry: She's kinda nerdy. She laughs and keeps it light, but she gives away really valuable information about not only YouTube, but all kinds of different. She's really good for Instagram. She will talk about email marketing. She has all the topics. Then she has some pretty amazing guests on there as well. I really love that podcast. I've learned a lot from her. Obviously, just I'm her fan girl. It's embarrassing. It's embarrassing when you're just like, "Oh my God, you're so great."

Christine Hanse: That's really cute, very [crosstalk 00:19:58].

Kendra Perry: She has a great podcast. I always like to give a shout out to my fellow Canadian entrepreneurs.

Christine Hanse: Absolutely, you should. I have one more that I like. I don't listen to it religiously, but I do listen from time to time. It's called She's Got Moxie with Joy Chudacoff. I actually have an interesting story about that one, because for some reason, I have no idea why, I saw one of her posts in LinkedIn. It was just an image promoting an episode that she had with a woman called Laura McHolm from North Star Luxury moving. I just thought, "Oh, that's interesting for me," because being connected with the luxury industry is exactly my people. I clicked on it and listen to the episode. I really loved it. She was talking to this founder of North Star moving.

Christine Hanse: Actually, afterwards, I reached out to North Star moving because I was wondering if I could collaborate, and we did. Now, I am in their program as a part of if one of their clients wants to book a session with me. Through them, I've been published on Yahoo Finance, and in a really great real estate magazine. I probably work with them further in the future.

Kendra Perry: Awesome.

Christine Hanse: This is just a really random story how things can happen. Never be afraid to reach out. I find here's my PR genie going off, opportunity, opportunity. If you hear someone on a podcast and you can see that there's potential to collaborate or just if you like them, just write them an email and tell them. People love it. This is just one example. Now I have my foot in the door with a prime A celebrity rental company, moving company. Now I have my foot in the door there. It's just really fantastic. I like her podcast too. She's Got Moxie is really the great title because that's what it's about. It's about female entrepreneurs in different businesses, successful businesses sharing the journey and the tips and everything. It's just nice. It's very American too, in a way, but I like it. I really like it.

Kendra Perry: That's awesome. I think we definitely need to do an episode about working with brands and collaborations and reaching out. That's definitely something, a topic that I am very interested in these days. We did learn a little bit about it when we were at the conference together. That's definitely something we should put on our list for an episode in the future. Cool. All right. I have a couple that I wanted to talk about that are more related to health. The first one I wanted to mention is Chris Masterjohn's podcast, Mastering Nutrition. Chris Masterjohn has a PhD in nutrition.

Kendra Perry: He's super. He's smart as a whip. Super, super smart, super nerdy. His longer episodes are super intense. If you don't have a good background in nutrition, functional health, and you're just not so nerdy, love learning, you'll be like, "This is intense." He calls it I think Chris Masterjohn light episodes, which I like the light episodes. He'll spend about 10 minutes talking about a specific topic. If you wanna learn about nutrition, different vitamins, he has all these little light episodes on how to manage your zinc status, your vitamin A status, your vitamin B2 status, whatever, where he goes through. He talks about the best places to get the vitamin from. If you're gonna supplement, what are the best forums according to research. He's very research-minded.

Kendra Perry: He's someone who actually spends a lot of time reviewing and leafing through what the available research is on the topic he's discussing. Then he sums it up in a pretty nice way. It's a really good podcast, if you want to really up your game with nutrition, if you're doing a lot of work with your clients with nutrition and recommending nutritional supplements, that sort of thing, a really good resource. I really love that one. Then the other one I love is called The Energy Blueprint podcast. That's Ari Whitten. He's another super nerdy health researcher. He's one of the guys, again, who's boots on the ground deep into the research, reading it all. He does really good review sessions on his podcast, where he'll go through some topic.

Kendra Perry: For example, he did one. I think it was about a year ago, but it was a really good one about adrenal fatigue because everyone's talking about adrenal fatigue. He's like, "Look, if you go on PubMed, there's actually not a single study on adrenal fatigue." There's actually one. It basically says that adrenal fatigue doesn't exist. He went through. He started looking at, "Okay, well, adrenal fatigue, there's no research on that but there's a lot of research on cortisol and its relationship to fatigue." He just basically goes through. He reviews all the research for and against, because basically, people are diagnosing adrenal fatigue based on cortisol levels.

Christine Hanse: Yeah, that's bullshit.

Kendra Perry: It is. That was a really good episode where he actually goes through it. You can actually talk about these topics with confidence, because maybe you're not the person who has time to go through and read all the nerdy research, but someone who will sum it up nicely for you, and tell you what's there. He comes at it from a really non-biased perspective. Plus, he has lots of great guests on a lot of topics that not a lot of other podcasts are talking about, which I love. It's a little bit more cutting-edge, bio hacker info, which I love. I'm such a nerdy bio hacker. That one's really a good one too.

Christine Hanse: Perfect. I love it.

Kendra Perry: I have one of the devices. I tell my boyfriend that when we're building a house right now, I'm like, "We're gonna have a room that's multiple different types of saunas. We'll have an oxygen set up."

Christine Hanse: Oh god.

Kendra Perry: We're gonna have a float tank. He's like, "Oh, my fuck. Are you serious?" I'm like, "Oh, yeah, bio hacker room, infrared sauna deluxe. Oh, my god can't wait."

Christine Hanse: That's there. I cannot wait to visit you. You have to have it all set up and then I just test drive it maybe.

Kendra Perry: Totally, we're gonna have an outdoor natural swimming pool. We're gonna have so many fun things that you'll never wanna leave. You'll just live in my basement forever.

Christine Hanse: I said, I don't really live in your basement now if I could enter. I'm just go, and hi.

Kendra Perry: Hello, I'm here. I'm here to stay. One day you'll have to come visit and it'll be so-

Christine Hanse: I will. I will. It's in my schedule in my fiction schedule. No, it is. I really want to. We just need to look at something.

Kendra Perry: We just need to work it out. We'll definitely go spend a couple days at Sparkling Hill, the retreat I was [crosstalk 00:26:30]. It's very, very nice.

Christine Hanse: Yes, totally.

Kendra Perry: Very, very nice. All right. I have one last one that I wanted to mention. This is actually another. I'm giving a big shout out to all the Canadians today. Lori Kennedy's podcast's The Business of Becoming Podcast. Lori Kennedy is based out of Toronto. She was a health coach turned business coach. Her big focus is launching programs, and turning one-on-one services into group programs, which I think is what a lot of us ultimately will want to do. Although, some of us love one-on-one. I know, Christine, you're really focused on one-on-one. I'm now pushing over multi-group programs. She's really good. She talks about a lot of more of the basic stuff.

Kendra Perry: I would say, it's best for someone who's newer, newer health coach, newer business owner, but she covers a lot of really good topics. She's very approachable and very actionable. She gives a lot of really good actionable tips, which is the most important thing to me. I love to listen to podcasts and come out being like, "I learned this one thing, and this thing is gonna help me. This is gonna help."

Christine Hanse: That's amazing.

Kendra Perry: I'm a big fan of her podcast, Business Of Becoming. We also wanna get her on the podcast.

Christine Hanse: Yes, we do. We do. Prudent. I actually thought of one last one. It's called Join Up Dots by David Ralph. He's been in the business for a long time. I've just talked to him today. His philosophy's Join Up Dots by Steve Jobs when he has a speech about all the dots that you have in the past, they will make sense in the future. They are the dots of your future, actually. You could build the dots in your future if you didn't have the ones from your past that's joining up the dots. He actually had a severe burn out and completely went underground in his personal life as well for two years. He was very close to a stroke, and really harsh wake up call. We just talked today.

Christine Hanse: A couple of weeks ago, he resurfaced basically on his Facebook account and just like, "Okay, world, I'm back." He's gonna touch with me today because he wants to re-record an episode. We had one in the past, and he wants to do a new one because he just really understood, for your business, you need to have fun is important. Money is important. Health is important. Time is important. Mindset is important. He's restructuring his main topics a little bit. I like it. He has some very impressive people as guests on there. It's all about joining up the dots. How did you get where you are, and what does it mean for your future in a way? He's hilarious. He's this British guy and shamelessly flirting a lot of the time. Hilarious. I'm really looking forward to this episode, but I'm already blushing. It's hilarious.

Kendra Perry: Oh, awesome.

Christine Hanse: He's just got British shut up.

Kendra Perry: Awesome.

Christine Hanse: There's a lot of wisdom behind, and a lot of love. He's very successful with his podcast, super successful. He also has a podcasting school. It's just a lot of wisdom on a page, basically. Have a look at that one to Join Up Dots.

Kendra Perry: Join Up Dots, I love that. I love the dots of your past and how they form your future. Because when you're in it, you don't really maybe see how things getting through and things lining up. Eventually, you have the story, right? You're like, "That's my story. All these things happened, and that's how I got here." But when you're in it, you're like, "I don't know what the fuck is happening."

Christine Hanse: I know. Fuck you, dot.

Kendra Perry: Yeah, again. It wouldn't be an episode of 360 Health Biz podcast without a few f bombs, right?

Christine Hanse: Totally. I think that was a lot of wisdom here I love for you guys to check out. If you like them, let them know that we send you. Love in the podcasting world is always appreciated, I reckon.

Kendra Perry: I think so. Guys, if you're listening right now, take a screenshot of this episode on your phone. Share it to your stories, tag 360 Health Biz Podcast and we will share it back to ours. We are just loving the Instagram Stories these days. We're both obsessed.

Christine Hanse: Yeah. [crosstalk 00:30:45] Kendra.

Kendra Perry: We went from basic pitch Instagram stories to pretty sweet stories. I think we're crushing it. You guys should check out our stories.

Christine Hanse: We just figured out. I finally got the music badge. I had to ask for it. Can you imagine?

Kendra Perry: Oh, really?

Christine Hanse: I don't have honestly [crosstalk 00:31:01] not everyone on Instagram has it. There's no rhyme or reason as to who has it and who doesn't. Then I just asked for it. In the app, I asked for help. You can send a message. I was like, "Dudes, I'm missing this badge." Then three days later, I had it.

Kendra Perry: Oh, that's awesome. I feel like you never hear back from them, but there's somebody on the other end who's listening.

Christine Hanse: They do.

Kendra Perry: They're there.

Christine Hanse: I need to talk to you.

Kendra Perry: They're there. They'll never acknowledge that they spoke with you, but they're there.

Christine Hanse: No.

Kendra Perry: Well, I'm gonna have to ask for that too. I don't know. I've not used music in my Instagram Stories yet. That's pretty [crosstalk 00:31:35]

Christine Hanse: But you don't listen to music. I love-

Kendra Perry: You know I do. I have a Spotify account. I have a Spotify account.

Christine Hanse: That's so funny. That's one thing I remember when you were like, "I don't listen to music." I was like, "What?"

Kendra Perry: I know.

Christine Hanse: I listen to music all day.

Kendra Perry: I think I was exaggerating a little. I do listen to music. I just mostly listen to podcasts, but I do listen to music especially when I'm just cruising. No pants in my house, I usually have music on.

Christine Hanse: Yes, well, I love using them from Instagram stories. Have a look at our accounts. Follow us on there. It's a good mix of wisdom, knowledge, fun, nonsense. Today, you'll see me without pants, actually. That alone should be worth a check in and giving a five-star review to this podcast, right? [crosstalk 00:32:24] There's a little skin in here.

Kendra Perry: Awesome. Well, it was fun as always hanging out with you, Christine. I hope you have a good evening. I'm gonna just start my day right now. Probably have another cup of coffee. We will see you guys again in two weeks.

Christine Hanse: Two weeks. Bye, everyone.

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