Imposter Syndrome is something that almost EVERYONE experiences. Kendra has, Christine has, and our guest, Tara Wagner has too. So while everyone experiences it (or at least 70% of people according to studies), the important thing is you have to OVERCOME it, especially if you want to succeed in your business.
Imposter Syndrome often has you struggling with yourself – questioning who you are, are you good enough, and all of these fears and doubts that may be holding you back from showing everyone what a kickass human being (and amazing health coach) that you really are!
The definition of Imposter Syndrome is this, it’s the outward appearance of having it all together, while inside you feel sick to your stomach because you think that you are a fraud. It’s you telling yourself "I just need one more certificate and then I can launch this business. Or I just need one more training, or I need a couple letters behind my name." That's imposter syndrome.
In this episode we discuss:
- the definition of imposter syndrome
- the connection between ego and impostor syndrome
- can imposter syndrome be taught to go away?
- can you have imposter syndrome in the comfort zone?
- strategies to help imposter syndrome
- emotions vs facts
- 80/20 rule – 80% mindset, 20% strategy
Imposter syndrome includes personal and spiritual development to overcome it. And if you look at any well-known business owner or anyone you admire, you will see that their success didn’t happen overnight and it didn’t happen with them sitting at the back of the room. In order to grow, in order to be successful, you have to develop yourself and dig up some shit to find out how your emotions are getting the best of you.
Tune into our new episode with Tara Wagner to learn more about imposter syndrome – and best yet, how to overcome it!
Tara Wagner is a Belief Breakthrough Coach for self-employed women barely surviving their business. She helps you identify and overcome your old habits – both practical, as well as emotional and mental – learn a better way of approaching the work/life/family juggling act, and gain confidence in your new role in your growing businesses
Get Tara’s freebie, How to Grow Your Business by Growing Yourself: https://xotara.us/b2b
Connect with Tara Wagner:
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Kendra: Hey guys, what's up? Welcome to the 360 Health Biz Podcast. It's me, it's Kendra and sadly it is just me today. Christine is off gallivanting the world as per use, and I actually don't even know where she is right now, but I suspect she might be in Bali or at least on her way there. She is not going to be with us today but that's okay because I have a pretty amazing guest joining me today to talk about impostor syndrome.
Which I think is a very relevant topic for you, the health coach or you. Whatever type of online coaching you're doing because this is something that I've experienced. I'm sure Christine has experienced that, and you guys are probably going to be coming up against this on a regular basis. It is normal, but there's also some things you can do to overcome it, and that is who my guest or what my guest is going to help us with today.
First things first, I got an awesome review on iTunes and I just wanted to quickly read that out because we love, love, love when you give us reviews. That's actually a fantastic way to support the podcast. This is from Simply Will and she says, "These ladies are our key," I'm not sure if Simply Will is he or she, so they, These ladies are wonderful, true heartfelt educators. They really want to help you with your own health and clients. I love listening to them."
Will, we love that you love listening. Thank you so much for the review guys. If you want to take two minutes out of your day and go leave us a five star review on iTunes, probably the best way to help the podcast get out to more people. If you want to support the show, it only takes two minutes. All right, so let's get into our guest today. I'm hanging out here with Tara Wagner.
Tara is a belief breakthrough coach for self-employed woman barely surviving their business. She helps you identify and overcome your old habits, both practical as well as emotional and mental. Learn a better way of approaching the work life, family, juggling act and gain confidence in your new role, in your growing business. Welcome Tara, thanks for being here.
Tara Wagner: Thank you. And it's pronounced Tara.
Kendra: I'm sorry. I better get that out of the way right away, so Tara.
Tara Wagner: It happens.
Kendra: I'm sure that happens.
Tara Wagner: Thank you so much. I am just absolutely loving you guys and this podcast. I'm really happy to be here and talking about probably the biggest elephant in the room that nobody likes to talk about, so just get really uncomfortable.
Kendra: How did you end up in this space? I would love to know how did you even end up here?
Tara Wagner: Yeah. This is a lifelong journey for me that I've probably started when I was in middle school. Where really I struggled so much with my own stuff, my own problems were pretty much all in my head. I was just struggling with who am I and am I enough, and all of these fears, all of these doubts. It led me through some really deep, dark years and I had to find tools that worked for me. It was this long process of just learning how to free myself, because anybody who's been there, they know it's exhausting to be in a hot mess. It's so much work.
Kendra: It is.
Tara Wagner: I spent years just learning how to develop myself with the underlying purpose or goal of being just being free. That is my biggest value, I just wanted to feel free. As I started doing that, I've been an entrepreneur for 20 years. I had another business. I struggled in that business so much because of my beliefs, but total blind spots; didn't see it, didn't understand why I was struggling. When I finally burned out, I sold that business.
I basically gave it away just to be done with it. With through a few years of just introspection, deep healing, deep understanding, so much of my identity was tied up in that. It was just this time of really learning and examining that had come out of that first business. During that time, this was when blogging was taking off. I started blogging just as a personal blog. It didn't actually blog a lot of my own personal stuff, but blogged other things that I was doing in my life.
As I was doing this inner work, my life was obviously starting to expand as well. Because when you start letting go of all of the should'ves and the have tos, and the who am Is, and all of that, you start to do things that nobody else is doing or that you really want to do. You're not held back by anything anymore. I started blogging about our life and I started blogging about our parenting, and how we were doing all these different things.
But it wasn't really sharing how did I get to the point where I could do things so differently? How do you let go of anger and frustration towards your kids so you can be a patient parent? How do you let go of the fear of what other people think so that you can ... At the time, I have my entire front yard was urban homestead, right? Everyone's like, "Aren't you worried about what the neighbors think?" That kind of stuff.
My blog slowly started to transform. Then we went through the recession like everyone else, my husband lost his job. We decided to take it as an opportunity and travel. That's when I had a lot of people coming to us like, "How are you doing this?" Not financially, how are you doing this? Not practically, how do you run an RV but like, "How are you living a life that you want to live without all of this here?"
I just started coaching people on it. I was coaching people through parenting. I was coaching people through lifestyle, but really very quickly what it ended up being was coaching people through their own beliefs. Through that, I pulled all my tools together and realized that, "I actually have a process. I actually have a thing that I do when I uncover a block, or a belief, or a challenge." I developed that more fully and I continued my own learning, and my own research, and testing things on clients over there.
I've been doing this for about 10 years now, and just developed a system or a process that works, that helps you to identify what is actually tripping you up. Then change it and rewrite it without all of the years of therapy and the, not to say anything bad about therapy. I've used it, many people need it. But sometimes it takes you in circles instead of going forward and I needed something that was going to, I need to just stop navel-gazing.
I was at the point, in one point of my journey where I was like, "I can dig and dig, and dig, and understand all of the deep seated problems, and where they all stemmed from." But at some point, you've got to stop the digging and you've got to start moving forward. I had to very quickly because it's so easy for me to dig and go deep, and stay deep. I had to learn a strategy that was faster than that or it was just too tempting to stay in my mark.
That's what I did and I just continue to do it, and I love it. It's one of the things that I have never gotten sick of doing and talking about; is personal development and spiritual development, and how our minds work, how our bodies relate to that and then what we can do to actually change what's not working for us.
Kendra: I love that and I totally know what you mean about going deep but not actually fixing the problem. I think sort of talk therapy for example, is really beneficial to maybe just even uncover that because so many of us are just unconscious, to begin with. We're not even aware. But I went through the talk therapy thing and it was super helpful.
I realized all these things about me, but I got to a point where I'm like, "Okay, I get it now. I get, I have these things, but I need them to be fixed. I need something that actually helps me unwind this and form different belief patterns, right?"
Tara Wagner: Right. Exactly. There's so much benefit. I think one of the biggest benefits of having a therapist or a counselor is a safe place to go to process, and to be heard. For somebody to call you out and be like, "Whoa, Whoa, where we're going right now is not helpful. Let's steer in this direction." But just that space, we're lacking that conscious space where we can really talk about these things without somebody looking at us like we're crazy.
Even though every single person deals with these things, thinks about these things, feels these things. It's universal across the board and yet, if we start to talk about them, it's like, "Oh, she's crazy. Ooh, what's wrong with her? Girl needs help." Oh yeah, we do.
Kendra: We do need it, it's fine. I only wonder what people think about me when I tell them I have three counselors. I have a whole team of counselors with all the crap going on in my head. But I think when it comes to business, what a lot of new coaches, especially health coaches come up against is how much they get in their own way. I don't think people realize how much of online business in general is mindset.
Sometimes I say 80%, I'm pulling that number out of my butt but I think it's a huge portion of it. It's like, "Sure, you can learn the funnels and the sales, and the marketing, and all that stuff. But if you don't deal with your mindset and your blocks, and your limiting beliefs, you will just continually prevent yourself from succeeding," correct?
Tara Wagner: Yeah. You're not the only one that says 80%, it's kind of the 80/20 rule, right? 80% of it is our mindset, 20% of it is our strategy. You need good strategy but if you don't feel solid behind that strategy, you can have the best strategy in the world for a funnel. But in the back of your mind, if you're thinking, "Who the hell am I? I don't belong here. Nobody should pay me. This is complete crap. What am I doing?"
All of that is going to come out in that strategy and so your strategy is just going to flop. It makes a huge difference and no, it's not the only thing we need to address, but it is the thing we need to make sure is solid because it's the foundation. Anything you're building, if you're building it on a rocky foundation or a wiggly foundation ... [inaudible 00:10:21] foundations wiggle, a shaky foundation, it's not going to be solid.
You're not going to have a solid business. That was me and my first business. I had a great skill. I had a good business plan. There were holes in it because of my mindset that I didn't notice and I had potential. I had a great marketplace, I had great marketing, I was doing really well.
But I kept stopping myself because of what was going on in the back of my mind that I didn't even want to become conscious of. Because it was so uncomfortable to look at those ideas of like, "Am I good enough or who the hell am I? Or all of those things." All of the opportunity was there but I couldn't reach out and grab it, because my head wasn't in the right place.
Kendra: Yeah. Absolutely. That makes so much sense and I think a lot of listeners are going to have [inaudible 00:11:16] moments as we go through what we're talking about today. But can you clarify to our listeners, we're talking about impostor syndrome, what is that like, how does that actually manifest?
Tara Wagner: Yeah. Impostor syndrome is the outward appearance of having it all together, while inside you feel sick to your stomach because you think that you are a fraud. It is literally the thing, here's a great example. I see this one the most. Women will say, "I just need one more certificate and then I can launch this business. Or I just need one more training, or I need a couple letters behind my name." That's imposter syndrome [inaudible 00:11:56].
It's usually a rock in our stomach. It's usually a constricting healing in our throat or our chest when we think about putting ourselves out there or talking about what we do to other people. If we think about going to a network events and we just have the shrinking feeling of like, "Oh my gosh, that's where all the real professionals are. I don't belong there." That's impostor syndrome.
But the most important thing is that; outwardly, we look bad ass. We look hot, our stuff looks good. Inwardly, we're the hot mess.
Kendra: Right. Yeah. That's such a great way to describe it. You described it perfectly, especially for health coaches because I see it all the time. They get their IIN certificate or ITN, or FDN, or whatever it is, which really is enough education to be successful. But then they're like, "Oh well, I should get this certification. I should get a certified in essential oils. Oh, I need to do a homeopathy."
They just end up with 10 different certifications, yet they haven't taken any training on business. They haven't put themselves out there or shown up, or really taken any sort of action in their business because they're just waiting. They think they continually need more knowledge. But what I like to say is, I think an expert is someone who just knows a little bit more than someone else, right?
Tara Wagner: Right. Absolutely. The thing that we really get to understand is that we can't get to that expert status without actually taking the path, and putting in the hours and the real life practice. You don't get to be the best cardiologists in the world unless you put in 10 or 20 years of trial and error, and research, and testing things, and listening to your patients, and really delving in deeply into your craft.
But that means paying patience from day one. You don't get to do all of that unless you have real patience. It's the same thing with coaching or I see it a lot in photography, anything like that. Where if you really want to be the expert, the only way to get there is to get out and start doing the things that will bring you to that expert status.
Kendra: Absolutely. Yeah. It's exactly true. The only thing that's ever going to make you feel good enough and that you actually know a topic really well, is actually just getting out there and doing it. But I'll say, if you've gone to IIN or FDN or whatever it is, you already have everything you need. You already know so much more than the average person, you are an expert. You're only going to go up from there, but not unless you actually do the work.
Tara Wagner: Absolutely. Because the thing is, if we just allow that thought in the back of our mind of like, "I'm not there yet, I'm not good enough yet," it'll start holding us back. We'll sit in the back of the room when we're at event, we won't speak up. When we have a thought or when we're ... If we're at a party and somebody's talking about needing something or having some challenge with something that we can solve, we won't speak up to it, right?
We won't go after big opportunities. We will feel that insecurity and will lack that confidence in our gifts, in our current abilities. Then because of that, therefore never develop them to their full potential. We end up staying small or we end up playing, wait, how did I say this before? We end up staying small because we're playing small, right? If you want to be bigger, you got to play bigger. That's the only way. My husband, he does CrossFit.
He doesn't get to this point where he can with these big heavy weights, by lifting the small weights. He gets there by, he started with the small weights and then he got the bigger weights, and the bigger weights, and the bigger ... That's the only way to really grow, is to pick up something that is too heavy for your muscles. Literally that's the way our muscles grow is like, "Oh, this is too heavy. I need to send more resources to this area."
It's the same thing in our business. We will not grow without getting uncomfortable and putting ourselves into situations that [cause quarrel 00:16:10].
Kendra: Yeah. Absolutely. Can you speak a little bit to maybe the connection between ego and impostor syndrome?
Tara Wagner: Oh, it's one and the same. Okay, let me get on my [inaudible 00:16:26] a little bit. Here's my thing of impostor syndrome. It is an inherently selfish and self-centered experience. Because it is our mind saying, "The only thing that matters is what other people think of me." For everybody, especially those that are in a health business, you're here to serve other people. It's no longer about you. You get to get yourself out of the way.
You get to be imperfect. You get to get criticized. Sometimes, you get to make terrible mistakes and embarrass yourself because it's not about you. For me, ultimately we're getting deep on this real fast.
Tara Wagner: For me, impostor syndrome, it's ego. It is you allowing yourself to be self-indulgent and self-centered because you are taking your eyes off of what actually matters. You're here to serve other people. You're here to make an impact. That means even humbly doing so, you get to show up just as you are. You may suck at it and that doesn't matter because you are here to serve other people, not yourself.
Kendra: Yeah. I think a lot of it is like this maybe self-protection, self-preservation thing, right? Because getting out there online is really uncomfortable. Putting your shit out to a bunch of strangers on the internet is weird. That's not normal. We're in this first generation of people who are actually doing this, right? It's uncomfortable and your ego, your self-preservation wants to protect you and it's like, "Don't do that. That's scary. Keep doing it if you feel like it's safe," right?
Tara Wagner: Absolutely. I love that you called it that because I really dislike the topic of self-sabotage, because our egos are never trying to sabotage us, ever. Our ego is trying to protect us and our ability to meet our needs. What impostor syndrome really is, is a desire to be loved, to be appreciated, to connect with other people. Those are very legitimate needs. Those needs should not go anywhere and they're not going to go anywhere.
All impostor syndrome is, is a belief that those needs are going to be threatened if we show up to do this thing that we worry that we're not quite good enough for. That's all it is. It's a self-protection mechanisms to make sure that we can continue to meet our needs. One of the strategies that people really need to practice when it comes to overcoming impostor syndrome is look at, "What are my needs right now?"
Because emotions, the only thing emotions are, are signals of our needs. Unhealthy or somebody might call negative emotions, are signals of unmet needs or needs that are being threatened. Positive emotions are signals of needs that are being met. If we're feeling anxious, if we're feeling afraid, all that's telling us is, "I have a need that either is not being met or that is being threatened right now or I perceive as being threatened right now."
If we can identify what that need is and focus on meeting that need, a lot of times the fear will go away with it. Our mind just wants to know that we're not ignoring these other aspects that are really important to us.
Kendra: Yeah. Do you think with impostor syndrome, is that something that you can coach your clients to not have it all and go away, or is it something that you feel will continually show its head as time goes on, but you just have better strategies to actually deal with it?
Tara Wagner: It varies. I have seen it completely go away for some people. For most people, that's not the case. For most people, it just is a different experience. Instead of it being this, "Oh my gosh, what's everybody thinking of me? I'm terrified, I can't move. I'm paralyzed." Instead of it being that it's like, "Oh, there's that old friend again, he hi by and move on." It's just, Oh what's the word I'm looking for?
It's just weakens, right? It's lost its emotional charge. It's there but it doesn't have the same impact. Over time, depending on how much energy we put into cultivating the alternative, we can get to the point where it never comes up or rarely comes up. But that does take a lot of practice and a lot of focus.
Kendra: Yeah. I agree. I was having a conversation with a coach not that long ago and I was just telling her, because she's just like, "Well, I just need to do this and that I won't be scared." I'm like, "Do you realize that the fear doesn't really go away? Every time you do something new and you launch a new program, or a new service, or you make a pivot in your business, you're going to experience fear. It doesn't actually go away. You just get to the point where it doesn't hold you back from taking action."
She was like, "Oh, I thought it just went away." I'm like, "No, everyone has fear. Doing something different is always scary, but it's not like it just goes away for any of these mindset blocks we probably come across. It's about actively working on them regularly," right?
Tara Wagner: I think what happens when you do get to the point where you're really practice and you're really competent in something, what happens is that the fear shifts. You don't perceive it as fear anymore. You have the same sensations but it's not fear behind it, it's excitement, right? Because they're so closely related in the body. The only difference is, what's the thought like pushing that sensation out.
That's really what happens. Before this podcast, I felt the same thing. I was like, "Ooh, I got some butterflies. Oh okay, my throat is tightening up a little bit." That's just my signal of, "Oh, I'm doing something fun. I'm doing something good." Because if I'm not feeling that, I'm not challenging myself, I'm not putting myself out there. But now instead of 10, 15 years ago, that would've been like, "Oh my gosh, I can't do this. My throat's going to close up, I'm not going to be able to speak. I'm going to make a fool out of myself."
All of those thoughts would have come with that sensation. Now my automatic habit when that sensation comes up is, "All right, take a deep breath. Let's center ourselves. Let's remind ourselves why we're here, who are we here to serve? What are we about?" And it shifts. That sensation where it would have lasted, honestly, I probably would've felt it like three days prior to the interview and then just been sick all the way through it.
Now it's like 30 seconds and then it just shifts right back into like, "Where are we going from here?" It's just an experience and you don't have the meaning that we applied to it. Like, "Oh man, do we love to apply meetings to things that aren't always that meaningful."
Kendra: Yeah. So true.
Tara Wagner: You mentioned earlier too that, oh-
Kendra: Go ahead.
Tara Wagner: You mentioned earlier that it was so common. One of the things that I like to point out to people is, it's incredibly common. The research that's been done on it says that probably about 70% of people deal with it at some point. Then it comes up any time you are doing something new and big, which basically means if you're doing something of value. What I try to remind people is that, the 30% of people who aren't experiencing this are probably ... They're not superhuman person who just has it all together.
They're probably the portion of the population who are calling it in. They don't have big goals, that are not pushing their boundaries. They're not getting outside their comfort zone. They not trying to make a difference. They're waking up, going to work, coming back, watching TV, going to bed, repeating, right? These are people who are in a comfortable place. The reason why it is so prevalent amongst entrepreneurs is because you are constantly pushing at that boundary, you're constantly putting yourself into a new position.
It's like once you make it to five figures, then you're pushing six. When she make it to six, she's like, "Can I do multiple six." You're always, always, always expanding, which I think is a really good thing. There's three things in life that will grow you. I call them people growing machines. One of them is marriage, the second one is parenting and the third one is owning your own business. All of those will require you to not get comfortable.
You have to continue trying new things, put yourself into new situations. As soon as you have it figured out, something changes. It's just the nature of what we're doing. It's important to understand that if you're feeling it, it means you're on the right track. Because it's the high achievers that feel it the most. All of the research will show that every high achiever will feel impostor syndrome.
I always tell people, "Congratulations. You're in good company. That means you're actually doing something about you."
Kendra: Yeah. Oh, I love that. That's so interesting. Yeah, speaking to the people who are living inside their comfort zone, there's nothing wrong with that. A lot of people, they just put comfort and security really hard values, and I hear your dog. That's totally okay and that's fine, but if you want to have a business, you can't run an online business while just hanging out in your comfort zone.
It just doesn't happen. It's really important to realize that you have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable.
Tara Wagner: Exactly. Those are my thoughts, exactly. We get to ... Okay.
Kendra: Cute dog.
Tara Wagner: She's just a menace. She's just been such anxious little girl since our other one passed.
Kendra: Oh, that's sad. Oh, oh.
Tara Wagner: Now she's happy. She's on my lap.
Kendra: That's good. We are dog friendly here on the Health Biz Podcast.
Tara Wagner: I'm telling you, it's like a toddler. You can leave them home alone but they're just as needy sometimes.
Kendra: So true. I would totally think that would be true.
Tara Wagner: Yeah.
Kendra: All right. Let's talk about some strategies because I think now we've shown the audience that what they might be feeling and now we've given it a name. Because they've probably experienced those things, but maybe they don't know that it's a thing. It's impostor syndrome and that's something that we all go through, especially as high achievers.
When you coach people, what type are you getting doing visualizations, are you reframing beliefs, are you doing meditation stuff, what does that look like?
Tara Wagner: When I'm working one-on-one with somebody, it's going to be very unique to their personality and what really speaks to them. But when I'm talking about it like this, there's a few things that I like to teach. The first thing is that, in order to do any of this work, we have to detach our emotions from the work you're about to do. It's very important to remember that feelings are not facts.
We really love to glorify them in our culture. We really love to talk about them as though they're just so amazing. They are important, but they are not as important as we often say they are. The reason that we need to detach them is, because as you're going into impostor syndrome, you're going to come up against some stuff that does not feel good.
It's important to take a stance of non-attachment in that, so being able to observe the feelings and not believe the feelings, right? Because otherwise what happens as we start digging into this stuff, we hit on something that feels terrible. Then we just wallow in it and we feel terrible, and we quit our business. Instead of, "Okay, I'm noticing this feeling and what's that telling me about my deeds, how do I want to approach this, oh, isn't that interesting?"
Kind of going into it like a curious observer and just watching what comes up as it comes up. We really need to look at this from a more logical place, because impostor syndrome is so emotional. It's so untrue and so bringing in that logical mind is really important. That's always the first step of, just mentally prepare yourself. I know it's not a very practical step.
Which is kind of mentally prepare yourself of like, "Okay, some stuff is going to come up, how do I want to deal with that when it comes up? What do I want to say to myself or remind myself when I start to feel maybe some shame or anything like that, that might come up as I'm digging into this process?" That's always the first one, to kind of set that intention of, "I'm in control here. My emotions don't get to tell me what we're doing."
Kendra: Yeah. I love that because it's like, just because you think it doesn't mean it's true.
Tara Wagner: Absolutely. Amen. Hallelujah. I need it on a t-shirts and a tattoo, and a business card to pass around to a lot of people I know.
Kendra: Yeah. It's so true.
Tara Wagner: I'd like to coach people that we know.
Kendra: Yeah. I love that and that was one of the first things I learned when I started doing talk therapy. I was like, "Oh, just because I feel this and it's having this effect on my, physically and emotionally doesn't mean it's actually a true story." A lot of times it was not a true story. It was just some random story I had created in my head that wasn't actually true.
Tara Wagner: Exactly. It gets imprinted because of a situation or maybe messages that we just repeatedly heard. But that doesn't make it real, especially when most of those messages were created from the mind of a child. It didn't have all the understanding. They didn't understand the difference between I did a bad thing and I'm a bad person. We take in these messages from a really limited and sometimes worked perception or perspective.
Then we just go about believing that they're true, because the mind is actually designed to reinforce its own beliefs. Everything that has seeds, it will say, "Oh that, I'm going to use this as a way to reinforce my belief." If it sees something to the alternative, if it sees something that contradicts its belief, it'll just call that the exception to the rule. Like, "Oh, that's just that one."
It's like if somebody gives you a compliment and you're like, "Oh no, but I really suck. I was good at that, but I really actually suck at this," right? That's just what your mind does. It will hold on to its belief and so you just continue to believe that belief that you believe it. We never questioned that because we're not taught to question our thoughts and our emotions.
A lot of times, we're either taught to ignore our emotions or we're taught to glorify them. There's no middle healthy ground of, yes, our emotions are signals that we need to listen to, but we need to make sure that they're not running the show.
Kendra: Yeah. Something came to mind when you were saying that and I think this is a quote from maybe Louise Hay. That was the first sort of mindset book. It's called, You Can Heal Your Life. It was the first mind that really started to make me realize that I was manifesting some certain things that I might say, I was having the same experience overall with dating and relationships.
I just couldn't find one and I eventually realized that it was me perpetuating that situation. I think what she said is that, "Your beliefs form your reality and then your reality confirms your belief." It just this vicious cycle, if you continue to say, "There is no men in this town, I'll never find a relationship. I'm never going to find someone to love. I'm never going to find someone to settle down with."
I'm just going to keep having that experience. Then that's just going to reinforce what I believe about relationships, right?
Tara Wagner: Because how can we see anything if we're wearing a blue tinted glasses? Everything we're seeing is going to be blue. How could it be anything other than that until we realize, "Oh, I've got these blue tinted glasses on me, let me take these off and then see what it looks like."
Tara Wagner: It's, how could it be any other way, that's just the mechanisms of the brain. That's just how your mind works. It's not a bad thing, it's a little outdated and it doesn't grow with us.
Kendra: Yeah. Exactly. There was one belief that I come up all the time and it's just so funny because I get people saying, "I can't raise my prices because people in this area can't pay that." I'm like, "Do you realize that's just your perception, you actually have not seen into those people's bank accounts. You have no idea what they can and can't afford. That's just something you're telling yourself. You're telling me in this whole city of 200,000 people, that you can't find 50 people to pay for your services? Think about that."
Tara Wagner: Exactly. Now if you live in a town of 100 and it's in the middle of a low income, sure, I'll give you that.
Kendra: Yeah. Totally.
Tara Wagner: But you're right, the majority of people are surrounded by opportunity. I was in my business, right, but you just can't see because you can't see past your own nose, really.
Tara Wagner: Yeah. That first step is really about setting that intention. The second step is about digging into the experience of impostor syndrome itself. What I tend to tell people to do is journal about it. The reason that I like pens and paper journaling is it slows you down enough, that you can actually get into more of the unconscious or even just the less conscious, right? Not necessarily unconscious, but things that we can zoom my life, we're just typing answers out.
Asking ourselves the questions of, "What was the situation where I was experiencing this, or what situation am I afraid of that might bring this up? What are the thoughts around that situation? How do I feel, how does my body feel in those situations? What are my beliefs or my worries, right?" Because sometimes the beliefs are completely unconscious. We might really be aware of them and we might be completely unaware of them, but the worries not so much and that it's often really closely related to the beliefs.
What am I worrying about is going to happen. For me, I always had this thought in the back of my mind. I don't know where this image came from, but this is just the way the brain works. I pictured people with pitchforks running me out of town, I have no idea why. I live in a big city, I must've seen something somewhere as a child. I have no idea.
Kendra: It's funny.
Tara Wagner: But impostor syndrome, it looked like a crowd of angry people, maybe with pitchforks or maybe just with this, but they were just charging me out of town, that's what it was for me. Spend some time, really understand the entire experience that you're having around it. Oftentimes, you're going to see some things come up that you weren't even aware of. Many times, not always, at least a layer of that impostor syndrome will fall away or it'll get a little bit lighter just through the awareness of it.
You'll have kind of an aha moment or you'll realize how silly it is to think people with pitchforks are going to come after you, and you can talk yourself down from the ledge a little bit. Then from there, it's really about looking at the impact that it's had on you. I will take people through some exercises and generally I will have people do this on their own. Because if we have somebody watching us during this process, what will end up happening is, we'll filter.
I would never have told anybody 10 years ago about people with pitchforks. I barely could admit it to myself, I'm not going to tell someone else even if it was a therapist or a coach. Just taking the time to look at these things yourself and look at, "What impact has this had on me, where would I be in my life right now if I didn't deal with this?" Now, this doesn't mean that where you are right now isn't good enough.
If I look at it, I'm like, "Well gosh, I would've probably still been in my other business and I probably would've scaled that, and kind of glad that I didn't do that." That's not the point though. The point is to realize just how much further I could've been as a person or in my own personal goals if I didn't have this thing just dogging me all the time telling me, "I'm not good enough, I'm not good enough," and constantly holding me back.
Because for most people, impostor syndrome looks like going 70% of the way, right? Never really giving it your all and then being able to blame that when you don't actually experience success. "Well, I didn't do this. I didn't do that. I could've done it, but didn't." It keeps us in that safe comfort zone, right? Really looking at those things and looking at how is this causing you harm, how is it trying to keep you safe but really keeping you from the things that you've wanted.
Where could you have been in your life at this point if you had dealt with this five years from now? This is a little bit of a painful step for people. I actually will tell people, "If you don't know that you can do this objectively, if you really think that it might spiral you down a little bit, don't do it." It's not a necessary step but I find that it helps to create the motivation to stop ignoring the problem, right?
Because then it's like, "You know what, am I going to allow the next five years?" There's a difference between living five years and living the same year five times, which one am I going to allow? "Do I still want to be dealing with this in five years or do I want to really confront this?" They said, "Take it head on and change it." Hopefully the answer is, yes.
Kendra: Yeah. I love that because I think pain is a big motivator, right? People make decisions and take action based on emotion more than they do anything else. For me when I started my business, I just had a knee injury, I was working in forestry. I was trying to be a professional skier, all of which I needed my knee for. I was like, "I need to do something else," so I started an online business and it was terrifying.
But the fear of, "If I don't do this, I'm not going to have a job. I'm going to have to move back to the city, from the beautiful small towns that they live in because there's no jobs here," right? That pain was such a big motivator for me and so I think it can be a really good motivator. But you're right, people have to be okay with going into a dark place.
Tara Wagner: Yeah. It's not appropriate for everybody. There's been times in my life where that was not what I needed to do, and so have a level of self-awareness of like, "Is this going to be helpful for me?" But don't shy away from it. We live in a world right now that is all about fluffy mindset work and like, "Let's stroke the ego and make ourselves feel good." That's not real mindset work.
Real mindset work is to look at all sides of it and develop ourselves even when it's tough, even when it's messy, even when we really don't want to get up early and meditate. It's about doing the things that don't necessarily always feel great. Again, we don't want to wallow in it. Feelings aren't facts, but we do want to use the mechanisms in our brain. There's two things that motivate us, pain and pleasure.
When it boils down to it, we're just big giant mammals and it's pain and pleasure, and so use both of them, right? The next thing that I'll have people do is look at, where might you be without this, what could be created, what might happen? Again, this is the same thing. Some people will avoid this question because it's too scary. That's okay, take the steps that you can take and be okay with that.
If you can't take the big giant leap forward, pull a Bill Murray, take the little tiny baby steps and then guess what? If you're hiking up a mountain, right, when you get halfway up, the second half doesn't look that far away anymore. It doesn't feel that big and scary. Take the step that feels okay now and be at peace with that, and come back to the next step when you're ready to come back to the next step.
If that's six weeks from now or six months from now, or two years from now ... I hate to break it to you but you're never going to stop growing and you're never going to get there in this lifetime. The whole point is to just do this work. So just do the work and make peace with the fact that you're not going to have it all together. None of us do, we like to look like we do on Instagram.
Kendra: Absolutely. I love that analogy because I'm a crazy mountain woman. It's so true, when I hike mountains where you're at the bottom and you're like, "Holy fuck, that is a long way off." But you gain elevations so quickly, even when you're hiking super slow. All that matters is that you're putting one foot in front of the other and you're moving forward.
Tara Wagner: Yeah. If I were to stand at the bottom of a staircase and be like, "I need to get to that top step in one stretch," I'm going to hurt myself, right? But if I get to the first step and I'm like, "Oh, that's a little closer and that's a little closer, and that's a little closer," but we don't do that. We're living in a culture right now of instant gratification and so if you don't get there overnight, we think that we're failures.
I would encourage you to look at any successful person that you admire and find them in a podcast, in a book, in a blog post, in an interview talking about their journey and their mistakes, and how long it took them to create that overnight success. Because it's just not real. It's just a fabrication of our current media right now, and it's not intentional.
It's just the way that things look and the way our brains perceive them. It's doing more harm than good if we're not paying attention to it.
Kendra: Yeah. I think comparison is a really, we all do it. It happens and [inaudible 00:42:59] easy when you're new. You're like, "I'll have health coaches look at my business," and they're like, "You put out so much content. It's crazy, I just don't know how you do that." I'm like, "Yeah, because I have a whole team. The only thing I do and my business now is create content, my team runs the rest of the business for me."
Four years ago, I was doing everything so I wasn't everywhere and I was struggling to get content out. It's just like you can't compare your business to someone else's who's at a different place in their journey. Nobody really blows up overnight, I don't think that happens. Maybe it's happened to the odd person, but it's like they [inaudible 00:43:34] the exception, the way up.
Tara Wagner: If it happened to that odd person, were they able to sustain it?
Tara Wagner: Because most of the time, I think of this all the time, I'm like, "Would I be ready if Oprah called?" I don't know where I heard that question. It wasn't my question, heard it somewhere else. But I'm like, "Oh, snap. No, I wouldn't." Then my next question is, "Okay, what would take me one step closer to being ready when Oprah called?" Because the truth is, that kind of success you've got to build up to, it's like the muscles in the gym, right?
You can't go in and lift a 400 pound weight without putting in some years of practice to get to the point where you can sustain that type of success. It's the same with our business. I know that people hear this all the time, "Don't compare your beginning to someone else's middle or end." But what I want people to do when they are doing that, to keep it practical. Because it's not very helpful to say don't compare, because our brains are actually designed to compare.
We're going to compare, we're not going to stop it. Compare better. If there's somebody in your industry that you admire, you love their business, you love what they're doing and you want to do what they're doing, scroll back on their Instagram feed to when they started and compare, "Okay, what were they doing then and what am I doing, did this work for them? Where did they really start to gain traction and what were they doing around that time?"
Learn from those things, but learn from their beginning. Actually do the work to compare yourself to the right place in their trajectory.
Kendra: I agree.
Tara Wagner: Because in 10 years, they're going to now be 20 years ahead of you. You're going to always feel like you're chasing something, instead of just learning the things that you need to learn to build the business that you want to build.
Kendra: Yeah. I love that actually. That's a really good idea because yeah, it's true. We do compare ourselves regardless, but we're all different people and we're all in different places. We should use comparison maybe as a tool to grow or as [crosstalk 00:45:33] right?
Tara Wagner: Leverage it. It's going to happen, you're going to compare so learn how to do it in a healthy way. I actually have a whole video on this, on YouTube of, I think it's called how to stop comparing. But really it's about how to do it better, how to make sure that you're doing it in a healthy way. One of those ways might be, put some freaking blinders on, then subscribe from these people.
It's just not necessary and you're losing your voice trying to emulate someone else's. But when you do compare and do so when you're feeling healthy, right? We all have days when the last place we should be is on Instagram, looking at our competitor's feed. Then we have our days where we're like, "We got our shit together, we're feeling good, we can do this."
Use those moods to do that research and learn what worked for them and how can I apply this to my business. Leverage what's going to naturally happen in our brains to benefit you, versus harm you.
Kendra: Right. I love that. What would you say is one thing, one small step that our listeners could do today to maybe help with this situation with impostor syndrome?
Tara Wagner: It's not a small step. It's probably the most important step and that is; practice the shit out of it. Everybody wants to say, "Oh, that's not me. I'm just not good on Facebook live, that's just not who I am. I'm not a public speaker. I'm an introvert." I'm sorry, I'm going to lay down some tough love here. Introvert does not mean social anxiety. Introvert does not mean shy. Introvert does not mean you can't run your business.
Introvert does not mean you cannot be a great speaker. Introvert means after you do those things, you need to go rest because you're tired. You just gave all your energy away. That's what introvert means. We need to practice the mindset that we want to emulate because all of our mindsets, whether it's impostor syndrome or some other fear, or overwhelm, or whatever it might be, all they are is habits. You're not faking it till you make it, you're practicing a new habit until you develop it.
That's all it is. Outline literally, "What would I do without impostor syndrome? If I loved and approved to myself, even though I had gaps; skill gaps, experience gaps. Experience gaps, things that I'm not happy with. Even if I had those things, but I still liked myself. I still knew I was in the right place, doing the right thing at the right time, what would I do? What would I say? How would I show up? How would I hold my body? What would the expression on my face look like?"
Then practice that. Practice it in your bathroom, practice it before you get on a call. Practice it before you go to a networking event. Practice it before you get on an airplane. Literally practice who you want to be. Because who you are right now is only that, because you've done decades of practice. Thankfully, it doesn't take decades of practice to change it around, it might just take a few conscious efforts for you to really start seeing that traction.
But that is the most important thing. Mindset work really truly, does not happen in your mind. It happens when you hit pavement, when you start putting it into real life. If you're not doing that, you're not going to see changes. You can journal, you can meditate. I'm a big meditator, don't get me wrong. But if you're meditating to change your personality or to grow as a person, it's not going to happen until you practice those things.
Your body needs to experience it for your mind to finally fully get it. There's no other way around. I wish there was, I wish I could make it easier. It's going to be awkward and you're going to hate it, but that's why you practice in your bathroom first. Then you slowly just [intro 00:49:35] way into the next little step.
Kendra: Yeah. I love that. I love the idea of practicing for who you want to be. I noticed actually, just sometimes there's a small things that you can do too. I noticed that I became way more confident when I stopped working in front of my desk in my pajamas. Every day I get up, I make myself look nice. Nice, like I'm going to a job. At the end of the day, I clean off my desk, I wipe it down, I clean the office.
I make everything look professional and I get up like I'm going to a real job every day. Because before, I used to just hang up my pajamas in bathroom all day. I'm like, "That didn't work for me."
Tara Wagner: It's so true because, again, what our body does, our mind is interpreting. If we're showing up in our PJ's and there's nothing wrong with that. I've had years of working in my PJ's. I got a lot done, I created some success and it was awesome. But there will come a time in everybody's business where you'll notice that what got you here, won't get you there, right? You'll have to make some sort of shift and I had the same shift.
There's something magical about putting on your best pair of shoes when you're just going into your home office. You step into bad-ass mode, like, "I've got my boots on, we're going to kick some butt today." It's the same as, if you just start smiling, right? It changes the way that you feel. What we do affects how we show up. Absolutely, take a shower, do your hair, do your makeup. It doesn't have to be like the full thing.
But if you're showing up as your best damn self, if you were really owning what you do, who you are, how you do it, what would that look like? Maybe that is yoga pants, rock on but do it consciously. Consciously create that mindset because what's happening right now is, the mindsets getting created. Everything we do is created in the mindset. But most of the time it's just unconscious. It's haphazard, it's kind of thrown together and it's usually not very helpful.
Kendra: Yeah. I totally agree. I love that. When I work with people I'm always like, "Tell me what your perfect work day looks like. What are you doing, what do you do when you get up in the morning, what types of appointments do you have?" It seems to be a really hard question for people to answer, because they're not even really sure what, maybe even they want that to look like.
Tara Wagner: Yes. Or don't even know what it could look like. I remember that question being asked of me and it took me years to be able to create my ideal routine. It really happened because of trial and error, like, "Well, let me just start with this and see how that works. Oh, you know what? This is really causing a problem. Let me shift that." Again, these things take time, there's no overnight success in our morning routines either.
But there's just something powerful about consciously designing what we want to live, what we want to experience. Like I said, it's not easy. I think that it can be easy but it's probably not going to be for most people, because we're not very enlightened beings and so we're going to bring all of our challenges into it. That's what makes it not easy. But if we can just make peace with that, the process starts to unfold and it gets easier. Even though we're doing all this hard work, it just doesn't feel the same way anymore.
It doesn't feel as hard. It's just like going to the gym. You don't love it at first but you keep going because you know you need it. After a while, you want to go, you crave it. You still love it, like, "I will still rather be in bed at 4:30 in the morning," but I get up and I meditate because I know I'm going to feel good later. It's the same thing, we put in the work now for the benefits down the road.
Kendra: Yeah. I just really love when people realize that they can create and design their own lives in whichever way that they want to. We see so many people in victim mode who think everything's just happening to them, and I can see that in someone and just feel sad because I'm just man-like. If they just took personal responsibility and started being aware of how they were creating their own experience, they could have their dream life, right?
Tara Wagner: Yeah. Exactly. That really brings it back to that value of freedom for me. That's really where I was, of just feeling trapped to my own thoughts and emotions and so many people don't realize they're even trapped. That is the one thing. If I can leave one message on this world when I die, it's that, it's up to you what you perceive 100%. I'm not even talking about law of attraction and attracting what you desire or anything like that.
I'm talking about just basic brain mechanics. What you focus on is how you feel. You can literally create pretty much any personality you want, any outcome you want, if you're willing to put in the work and do it. If there's something in your life that you don't like, you can change it. If you're willing to do the work now, that work might be easy for some people and hard for other people based on where you're starting.
But it's still ultimately a choice. If it's not serving you, if it's not serving other people, when are you going to let it go?
Kendra: Yeah. Totally. Oh, love it. I love it. Well, can you let us know, Tara, how listeners can connect with you and learn more from you if they wanted to do some of this work?
Tara Wagner: Absolutely. I actually have a workbook that I put together that you guys are welcome to have. If you go to xoTara.us/isworkbook, so impostor syndrome workbook, what I've actually done is take in and broken down eight steps. Some of which we've talked about today, some of which we haven't, that people can walk through to start this process. Really in a powerful way, I really tried to put some real coaching in there.
I tell people all the time, "I'm a tough coach, not a fluff coach." I didn't put a lot of fluff in there. It's real practical, tangible steps to really give people some guidance on like, "What can I do with this, how can I really overcome this?" It's xoTara.us/isworkbook. They can download that for free. You can find me on YouTube @TaraWagner and I do weekly coaching videos there, so lots of practical, tangible stuff.
I tried to keep it really down to earth because I know how frustrating it is to talk about mindset and then walk away and go, "But how do I do that?" Then Instagram @TaraWagner, as well.
Kendra: Cool. Yeah. We will make sure to link to all of that in the show notes. I was just creeping on your YouTube channel. It looks like you've got lots of great videos there. I'm a big fan of YouTube so I was like, "Yeah."
Tara Wagner: You do?
Kendra: Awesome. Well thank you so much, Tara, and thank you to all our listeners. We appreciate you hanging out with us and having this very uncomfortable, but hopefully enlightening conversation. Make sure to connect with Tara if you are noticing that in yourself. I'm sure she has lots of fantastic tips in her free workbook. I will see you guys in a week from now and in two weeks from now, hopefully it will be me with my compadre, Christine again. Hopefully she'll be back from gallivanting the world. Thank you so much guys, and I'll see you guys in the next episode.
Okay we can’t contain our excitement! We are launching the 360 Mastermind - a life-long commitment to yourself and a year-long commitment to our method.
What is a mastermind you ask? It’s a small groups of people who have similar goals and who come together in regular intervals to brainstorm and evolve together. Running a business by yourself can be lonely, isolating and scary as sh*t. So instead of being on your own and trying to figure it out on your own, you don't need to rely on just your one brain. In a mastermind, you have a group of brains that all have their own experience, that have all invested in different educational pieces, who have had different experiences. There's so many ways that a mastermind program can catapult your business. Professionally it helps you grow, but then the emotional piece is huge which impacts both your professional and personal development.
Kendra and Christine met through FDN but quickly became business besties. They started with running a webinar series and then moved onto the 360 Health Biz Podcast. These biz besties talk on Voxer, vent to each other, reach out for support, run ideas by each other, be each other's biggest cheerleading squad and now together, they want to be YOUR biz bestie, YOUR cheerleader and YOUR business coach.
The 360 Mastermind includes three pieces of continuous education: private coaching, hot seats, and two retreats. It’s a 12-month business coaching and personal development program that will help you power-up, move past your internal B.S, get accountable, master online business strategy and DO the work you’re afraid to do so you can access the life you have always dreamed of.
Join before November 15th and we cover the cost of the 1st retreat! If you pay in full, we cover the cost of BOTH retreats! The program officially starts January 19, 2020. Interested in learning more about the 360 Mastermind? Check out the details here
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Kendra Perry: Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to another amazing, as always, episode of the 360 Health Biz Podcast. I am one of the cool hosts, Kendra Perry, but the even cooler host [inaudible 00:00:00:15], and it is Christine. She is my Biz bestie. She is my biz rock and my biz family. It's just the two of us today. We are going to be talking about a topic that we're very passionate about, and that we want to really share with you, and something that ... This is something you guys actually might be missing in your business life.
We really want to help you see how much this thing can really help take things to the next level for you. Not only professionally, but emotionally, okay? This can actually prevent you from self-imploding and having a nervous breakdown.
Christine: Yeah, I agree.
Kendra Perry: So we're going to be talking about three community biz besties and basically masterminds. Because we know as entrepreneurs, it's lonely, right? It's isolating. Usually, we are trying to build our empires from our home offices, or coffee shops all by ourselves and our friends and family don't understand what the fuck we're doing, and usually they don't support us, right? Do you agree, Chris?
Christine: Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, Kendra and I we ... I think everyone who's been listening for a while and knows that we have this super close relationship, and we are business rocks to each other because there are times when you need to vent, or when you don't see your blind spots. And so, having a community is just so, so, so important.
And so, we want to talk a little bit about masterminding and what it is, why that community is so important. So let me walk you quickly back to what a mastermind actually is. And it sounds like this evil kind of thing. Like this I'm going to take over the world kind of thing. It is a little bad. But basically, it's been going back for eons of time. You can think about King Arthur and his round table.
You had these, basically, these communities, these small groups of people who had similar goals and who were always in a position of influence, or who wanted to have same goal, who would come together in regular intervals to brainstorm. So to basically see how they could evolve together. And it's basically, instead of being on your own, trying to figure it out all on your own, you don't need to rely on just your one little brain. You have a group of brains that all have their own experience, that have all invested in different educational pieces, who have had different experiences.
So we bring it down together to entrepreneurship who've been working with different clients, who've maybe already built this six-figure or seven-figure business, who have had their own coaches. All of our experiences are different. And so basically, you get the benefit of all of these different brains helping you to basically evolve and to become a better entrepreneur yourself.
So you also had people like Henry Ford and American presidents, and all kinds of people who've had this concept forever. And I think if you're one of the people who've mentioned it a lot is Napoleon Hill, who is Think and Grow Rich. So you should have read his book if you haven't yet. That is basically what we're doing.
So personally, I've been in a few masterminds in my career. Some have been led very, very well. Some may be not so much for me. But I have to say whatever the experience was with the coach, and I'm going to go back to that later because it's such a huge question of trust. What has always been life changing for me was the connection I made with the other members, always.
So the first time I joined a mastermind was in my first year in business that is back in 2015. I still I'm in regular touch with the people who were in that group because we bonded so much. Here's the thing, you need that connection. You cannot do it alone. And sometimes you stay in the abyss of hopelessness because you had a bad month, or because you had a comment hearing again by your family most of the time. And it's just when you need that support network, and that's what a mastermind is providing you with.
And then on top of that, you have blind spots. So very often you cannot see them. It's impossible. But you have a group of other people who are shining their light on you with so much love and experience, and they will see it, and they will tell you, why don't you do this? It seems so obvious. I've just been in Tuscany a couple of weeks ago for four days of masterminding with a group of women. And not to say that it only has to be women. It can be men and women, or mixed, or whatever.
One of the first things we did was we really opened up. We really went deep, and we talked about the good and the bad and the ugly. And it immediately created this bond. I wasn't ready to quite share until the very last day, but that was when I had my breakthrough because I felt stuck with my company. I hadn't realized that I had this block of developing further.
And as it is, now I have my team. I have a licensing format for my company. It's going to grow. But I wasn't ready and I would never have done it if I hadn't had the support of that little group. And so, that's how masterminds can be. They can be online, and they can also be in person. They can be focusing on certain topics, and they can also be focusing on you. And here's the amazing thing. Sometimes they do all three.
So sometimes they have topics of continuous education each month, and they might have something that's called Hot Seats, which basically means the light is on you. You bring your question to the table and everyone will help. And then sometimes they also combine in person meetings. And here's the drum roll moment because Kendra and I, we are hosting a one year 360 mastermind in 2020, and it has all three things.
So you have continuous education. You have hot seats where it's just about you. You have one-on-one coaching by the both of us. So we have very different brains as you know, but we have both geniuses now elements. So you have both brains. And we also have two in person retreats where you actually get to meet the tribe in person. And I can tell you there's nothing like in person meetings.
Kendra and I we've only met after knowing each other for like a year for the first time, and yet I think it still brought everything to a different level. We'll just see each other for the second time in a couple of days and I can't wait. It's just different sharing some food together, and having that chat and looking into each other's eye and just be like, "Oh, it's just different."
Kendra Perry: Yeah, you can really vibe off the energy of a group when you're at those in person events. Personally, I think you can build a business all by yourself without a community, without a group of likeminded entrepreneurs with similar passions, similar goals. But I think it's going to be really hard, and I honestly think it'll take you longer.
I really credit the fast growth of my business to finding a group of people to actually bounce ideas off of. When I first started out, I mean, I'm from a small town. I don't know anyone with an online business. My friends who I've had for years still don't really get what I do. They have no idea. My parents were not supportive. My partner at the time was relatively supportive, but I couldn't talk to him about it because he was a mechanic. And he was like, "What are you talking about? You can't talk to me about this. This makes me feel crazy."
So I felt like I was spinning. That was really difficult because yeah, like you said, you have blind spots. Or sometimes you're trying to decide between three things and you can't. You're so indecisive. You're like, "I don't know. Is this better? Is this better? Is this better?" And yes, we have to test everything. But sometimes it just helps to be able to talk about that with someone else.
My first experience meeting that type of people was going to a live event. I flew down to LA for a conference after I joined the transformation, or the Institute of Transformation Nutrition. I met a few women there at this event, who I'm still in touch with. They are still health coaches running their online business. We still keep in touch.
One girl I became very close with and we literally just faced with message all day, and that was so helpful because I'm just like, "What about this? And what about this?" Because it's such new territory. And it is very isolating because you're usually not getting the support of your outside community because they don't get what you're doing, and they want you to be safe. And starting your own business is not the same option, right? And obviously, there's a lot of weird conditioning and beliefs around small business, right?
So it's not their fault. They just want you to be safe. So I have that experience and that was really awesome. And then I eventually joined a membership that used to be run by Lindsay [Patea 00:09:37] and Emily [Patch 00:00:09:36]. It was called The Funnel Playground. So it wasn't a mastermind, but it was like a membership group where we all were building our funnels, and we had the hot seat coaching, which was very cool, and the support. That's where I met our current business coach, Jamie Palmer. I actually met her in that group.
Christine: I love her.
Kendra Perry: That's where I first came into contact with Jamie Jensen, who has helped us both with our stories. She's actually been on this podcast. Actually, both Jamies have been on this podcast. So it's very cool because you connect with people who not only can help you. You can hire them, but they come into your world and then you have them on your podcast. We have both been on Jamie's podcast, right?
There's just so many ways that this can catapult your business. So professionally, it helps you grow, but then the emotional piece is huge. Like me and Christine, we actually met through functional diagnostic nutrition. It's a funny story. I shared it on an Instagram story before. But basically, I was working for FDN. I was running their graduate membership. The owner was really set on having this lecture club where it taught people how to do public speaking. I hate public speaking, which is funny because I'm actually doing public speaking this weekend.
Christine: You'll be fine.
Kendra Perry: I'm like, "I get that you want to do this, but I don't want to be the one to charge this one because I'm not an expert on this." So I was like, "I'm going to hire an interim. I'm going to bring someone in who can help me run this." And so I put out the application and a bunch of people applied. But I was the most impressed with Christine's application because you had all this public speaking experience. Your resume, I was like, "Well, this chick's for real." And [inaudible 00:11:21].
Christine: I need to pull that resume out again.
Kendra Perry: And so, I ended up hiring her. So we ended up running this webinar series together. I don't know. Maybe it was 10 webinars or something like that. We just hung out. Christine did a lot of the teaching. I was there to support, ask questions, and run the questions. We just fell in love.
Christine: Yes, we did.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, it was so fun. We just started clicking. And then maybe like six months after we met, after I had soccer working for FDN and we both ended that webinar series, I wanted to start a podcast and I wanted it to be a business podcast. I love talking about business. I love helping coaches build their business, which I learned that when I worked for FDN because I was seeing all these people struggle with their business. I was seeing all the nutritionist just being so talented and having so much knowledge, and having the ability to help so many people in this world, but not actually being able to get their message out there.
So I really wanted to start a business podcast and I was like, "I don't want to do it alone." And I was like, "Christine would be the perfect cohost." So I asked. I asked you and I think you were just like, "Fuck yes."
Christine: I'm just a spontaneous kind of person. I'm just like, "Sure, it's easy. Just set it up here, here, here." I think that's also how we complement each other because I don't think that much. I just do things really quickly. And Kendra is more of a, "Okay, I'm planning this. And I'm going to do this and this." We complement each other really well because we have different paces. She slows me down when I need to slow down, and I pick it up when we need to be calm. And it's always working really well. But it was just like, "Yeah, sure, let's do it." And then that was it.
Kendra Perry: And it happened, yeah. I don't know what episode we're on, but we probably have almost 50 episodes. We've been doing this for about just over a year. We have so much on. This is definitely my favorite thing in the business is doing these podcast episodes because we have so much fun, right?
Christine: Yeah, very true. Very true.
Kendra Perry: On top of that, we are podcast cohost. We are our business partners, but we are also business besties. We talk on Voxer. We vent to each other. We reach out for support. We've run ideas by each other. We're each other's biggest cheerleading squad. We need that. I don't actually know what I do without you, Christine.
Christine: I know, likewise. You need it. I can never go to my mom and tell her something. She would just not get it. Or she will think you're complaining hence everything is a failure, which it's not. Yeah, I think it's an episode for mental sanity and just resilience. It's just you need to also genuinely have someone who truly believes in you.
There's a difference between people who try, and those people who actually do. You can just feel it. You really need someone who I think also knows and who has walked the talk, who has been in those shoes, who's had had maybe tough times at times as well to know that you can absolutely do this, and to trust in you, and who sees things in you that you don't necessarily always see.
So that is what is helping you to move on and to not get stuck. Sometimes you need to see yourself through other people's eyes in order to actually remember how great you are.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, and I agree. And I'm sure our listeners have had this experience with health, for example. A lot of us are health coaches because we are own personal health struggle. We can be very talented health coaches who have the ability to help our clients. But when we're trying to fix our own health, that can be very difficult because you're too close to the situation, and you're emotionally involved in it. And it goes through for your business too, right?
It's hard to take a step back and look at everything through logical eyes because the truth is we're all emotional beings, and we're being driven by our emotions. Our emotions are driving our decision making, which in business is okay sometimes, but sometimes you need to move out the emotional piece, and that's where your wolf pack, your community, your business bestie really comes into play because they can be the logical ones who step back and be like, "Oh, that actually doesn't make sense." Or deciding between those two things that actually isn't what matters. Both are good, you just need to do it, right?
Christine: Exactly. And I think one thing is the prep of our podcast was always that we connected, especially through FDN. We connected with people who are beautiful people, super smart people, and have this huge mission, and who literally really want to help so many people and you can do it, but who are not necessarily as into business as we are.
I mean, not everyone works the same way that we do. Both Kendra and I are total geeks. And that's, I think, one thing that connects us. We love our tech. We love the online aspect, and we chose it. But for others it's just ... But well, Kendra is in a remote town so it was a necessary ... Not a necessary evil. It's just a welcome choice, I guess.
For me, I'm in this teeny tiny country with a language that nobody speaks. So for me, it was sudden from the beginning that I need to conquer the world. But both of us we enjoy it. We've always enjoyed it. But we really, our mission with our podcast has always been to help those who might not necessarily have the inherent passion for this, and who just need some help and need a sounding board, I would back in.
But podcasting is obviously just a one-way street. We put our content out there, and we hope we make it as easy and as enjoyable as possible. But obviously, connecting and getting feedback and being actually able to help people is another story, which is how this was basically born where we said, "Okay, let's take it to the next level."
And I think the other thing is always, Kendra and I have both been working with coaches on and off. I think what makes us different, or not necessarily different. It's just that I think we're both people who've experienced to having people be very willing to take our money. But ultimately, not necessarily really caring about the outcome. And why? You obviously always have to do the work. I think both of us are people who really, really care. I don't know anyone, really, who is as invested in our private clients as Kendra is. You wouldn't think it, but this one is quite emotional sometimes. And I love her so much for it.
Kendra Perry: I'm very emotional sometimes. It's difficult because I think you're a health coach so you got into this to help people, and you did your nutrition training. Maybe you're an FDN, maybe did IIN. There's so many different ones out there these days. But you actually need just as much education, if not significantly more education, in online marketing and sales than you do as you have in nutrition.
That is really overwhelming. And it's not your nutrition school's fault that they didn't set you up for business because business and marketing is changing. It shifts constantly. You need to be up with the trends, right? You may not be that into that, and that's okay if you're not as obsessed with it. [crosstalk 00:18:47].
Christine: Totally. Totally.
Kendra Perry: Because if your nutritionists will try to teach you online business, by the time they updated the curriculum, everything would have changed again. Right? Things are always shifting. There's new platforms. The social media algorithm they're changing. People are changing, right? Ultimately, online marketing is a game of psychology because it's all about the people and how they respond. And the world is changing. It's always changing. Technology is changing people, right?
Christine: Plus I think people are changing. You are changing. The time when you graduate to the time a year later you will be completely different. Both of us redesigned and we've done our niches, and if you know our stories you know that we both completely shifted businesses over the years. And I think now it's been pretty consistent because we've done all the work, meaning not just the marketing work. We also do obviously stay up to date with whatever's happening in the digital world.
But I think one thing that we also do very much so is the personal development piece. And I think that's something, which, unfortunately, is very often put on the back burner. And both of us are a huge believer that it's actually the first step that you need to do, even though it seems so unsexy, and you cannot see the conversion necessarily in metrics immediately. But I do honestly believe that if that is skipped over, it's doing you a huge disfavor. I mean, both of us are very, very candid about that.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think online business is almost like 8% mindset, right? Pretty much all the reasons why you're not succeeding or taking action, are blocks, right? Imposter syndrome, fear of putting yourself out there, fear of action, analysis paralysis. These are things that are not unique to you. We're all going through these, right? And we have to push through these. Your money shift. You've downloaded a whole bunch of bullshit about money from your parents, from your grandparents, from your community, and that's actually preventing you from attracting abundance, right?
And so, with a 360 mastermind, it is a business coaching program. But it's also a personal development program because we have to work through these things. I work with new coaches. Most of my clients are pretty brand new. What we end up talking about on our coaching calls is a lot less of the techie, social media, business sales shift. We're talking about the mindset. They're like, "I'm so scared of this. Nobody signed my contract. They hate me."
I'm like, "No, that's actually not about you. That's because you need to remind them because people are distracted. That's not because they hate you." Stuff like that because we make everything about ourselves. We have fear. Maybe we were bullied in high school. So we're getting triggered when a troll comes on our social media and says something nasty to us, right?
Online business will trigger you. And if you don't do the personal work, your business won't grow because it can only really grow as far as you are willing to grow. And so, we want to discuss a lot of those things as we go through this. I mean, this is where I think me and Christine's greater mission is. I've been feeling it pretty deep in my soul lately that we have a bigger message to share because the truth is when you build your dream business, you are building self, right? You're investing in yourself, and you are becoming a better person because I don't think you can build a successful business that you love without doing that personal work as well, right?
Kendra Perry: [inaudible 00:22:20].
Christine: It's daunting because you're out there. It's all of you. I do find, though, suddenly you have terms inspiring floating towards you. It's not even because they're trying to, it's just because you're finally shining as the beautiful person that you are. And we believe that you are because otherwise you wouldn't be listening to us. That's very simple. I truly believe you attract the people who jive best with you.
My best example is my team. I've just went to Bali and I trained six amazing women for my team. Super smart. The best heart I've ever seen. I was a little bit intimidated at first, to be honest. But in the end, they are exactly ... Not exactly like me. Obviously, we're all different. But I truly believe that once you shine as who you are and you actually like who you are, the same kind of people will be drawn to you.
So if you're listening to us, then I just think that you are very similar maybe at a different level. So you actually know that there's much more to this than at first sight. This gives me the tingles through it.
Kendra Perry: I know. We're going to cry over here.
Christine: I know. So let's talk a little bit about logistics in terms of what we do, and what this whole thing looks like. So the reason why we're this, even if you're listening to this on a later date. It doesn't matter. You just have an idea of who we are, what our mastermind is. And just to say, there's something that needs to resonate. I've been in masterminds that have worked really well, that haven't worked very well. I've also been invited to some where I had to decline because it just wasn't the right time, or it just didn't feel quite right.
And so, I really believe that you have to join. If that gut feeling is like, "Yeah, yeah, this is it," then I think you have to listen to that for sure. So when we talk a little bit about logistics, let me pull up very quickly here an idea of what we're going to do. As I said before, we have these three pieces of continuous education, of private coaching, and of hot seats, and of the two retreats.
So things that we have in our curriculum, which is completely ... How should I say? Editable in terms of that we will listen to our community and to our tribe is the main thing is as we just said, is mindset. You have to face those little gremlins in your head and we're going to lovingly be there with love, beating the shit out of [inaudible 00:24:52] and letting you know when you are thinking things that are not actually your voices. And we're very good at that.
Other things that we're going to do is we're literally going to look at your website, give you feedback, and help you with your branding in terms of giving you ideas of helping you to understand who you actually are, what you want to look like, all of those things. Kendra and I have both heavily invested in working with the best in the industry on those topics.
So we've learned our fair share by watching them and by just being mentored by them in a way. Finances and pricing is something. If a coach is not offering you to become financially literate, you should run, seriously. I think it's an absolute basic task. You have to know your numbers, how much you're actually spending, how much you need to make, including taxes that go off. So we're going to walk you through that.
I'm not a financial mastermind or guru. And I think that was one of the things that actually helped me back for a long time thinking that I was not good with money. So doing this has been life changing for me. And so, we're going to help you do this too. Funnels, so the more practical things. What are you going to do if someone lands on your website? Sales. How do you sell? Which is a lot easier once you actually know who you are and what you like.
Softwares and tools and employees. Both Kendra and I have teams. So we're going to teach her everything we've learned. Copywriting. We've both worked with amazing copywriters and you just learn and pick up quite a few tricks, and scale to some extent. Online and offline marketing. Again, both of us, I do a lot of workshops. I do a lot of public speaking. I'm doing my first TEDx talk in December. So it's all very exciting. I'm going to teach you all about that.
How to do content creations. Again, both Kendra and I have invested in learning a system, which we'll help you to understand. Community building, which is Kendra's absolute strength. Video marketing, PR, which is my forte. So both of us have these incredible niches that we both shine at, and we help each other with this constantly too. So if I have a question about Instagram stories I will ask Kendra, or I will check out her stuff and just copy it. The workshop, for example, we design together, because that's more my experience. So you'll basically get both our brains.
And then the other thing is obviously the two retreats. So we're going to go to Denver at the beautiful resort in nature, because that's where my little Kendra thrives.
Kendra Perry: I was like, "I will not go anywhere but the mountains."
Christine: I know. It's hilarious. So we're going to go there. You basically have, depending on when you sign up, but everything's included in terms of accommodation, food, airport transfers, all of that jazz. You don't have to think about anything. We have a wonderful event planner who's helping us do all that. So it's all really exciting. So we're going to do one in the spring and one in the fall. So you'll get to meet us, and hang out with us, and bond with us. We're going to cry, and have fun, and make lots of money, which I'm very excited about.
Kendra Perry: And it's so much fun to meet in person. You really just vibe off everyone's energy. You'll feel just so inspired and transformed by the end of those. I'm really looking forward to those [inaudible 00:28:16] actually be super beautiful. And you know I'm going to drive you guys on a hike. So that's just going to happen. So prepare.
Christine: Yeah. I need to get shoes appropriate to that. I don't think my Louis Vuittons will cut in.
Kendra Perry: Well, you need some running shoes. I mean, it's such a cool program because you basically get our eyes on your business for an entire year. And we're there to help you plan and strategize, and give you the tools, share our experience, and basically just hold your hand through the entire process. And a year is a really good amount of time.
There's going to be just so much transformation that takes place. Because I really do think it takes about a year to really get what you need in place so that you can start really being successful in business, and build that profitable business, the one that gives you freedom, whatever that looks like for you. Whether you want to be traveling the world like Christine, or whether you want to be like hermiting out in a time [inaudible 00:29:09] where there's no employment opportunity, right?
Most people I know in the small town make modest incomes. There's not a lot of jobs. A lot of people come to where I live and have to leave. This was my way of being able to stay here, but also to be rich and be able to afford the lifestyle that I want. If you guys follow me on Insta stories, I just built and moved into my dream house. I could not have done that without my business, right? You guys should check it out on my stories. It's fucking nice.
Yeah. We're going to work through the mindset. We're going to help you attract abundance because there are things that you do on a regular basis, things that you tell yourself, things that you say to your online community that actually block new clients from coming into your world. You might be doing things that are actually repelling people from coming into your world.
If you're not attracting consistent clients and bringing in consistent income to not only pay your bills, but have the extras for the lifestyle that you want, it's not because you're not good at this. It's not because the internet hates you. It's not because the Instagram is against you, right? It's just because what you're doing is hard. This is not an easy thing. And trying to do it on your own, like I said, I think you can do it, but I think it will take you twice as long. I think some mental health will suffer as you go through, and you may give up.
I've seen a lot of coaches just give up because they're just like, "I can't do this. No one will pay the cost of my services. It's not sustainable." And I'm just like, "Well, it is. It's just that, you know what I mean? You're not doing the right things and you maybe don't fully believe in yourself." Right?
Christine: And look at what Kendra and I are doing. I mean, Kendra is selling head tissue mineral analysis and business coaching for health coaches and I'm selling fucking sleep. We charge whatever we want to in a way. We really walk the talk. We really know what we talk about and we care. I cannot say that enough. I think both of us are really carrying people with very cool humor as well.
I really think when we find someone who we think is a great fit, then we'll take you under our wing and it's going to be a lot of fun and very, very efficient. So if you want to know more about that, let's see. Where do we send them? So there again, that's me not being [crosstalk 00:31:34].
Kendra Perry: We can send them to ... We'll put it in the show notes, guys. But the link is just 360healthbizpodcast.com/mastermind. To make it simple, you can get all the details there. We have two tiers for our mastermind. We have a bronze and a platinum. So platinum is for people who just really want to Excel. You get a bunch of switch. We'll cover your travel cost to the retreats. You get extra coaching with me and Christine.
I'm going to help you master in your YouTube channel, become an authority on YouTube. Christine's going to help you with your signature talk. You'll get moral support from us, and that sort of thing. We do have two options depending on your needs. Just something I wanted to quickly address because we do talk to health coaches and all our examples are going to be in health and wellness.
Really, what we teach can apply to anyone who sells online coaching services. I know we've had a couple people interested, a girl I know who's a climate change coach, for example, and someone who I think does mindset. And they were wondering, well, is this just for health coaches? Our experience is in the health and wellness industry, but really what we teach is true for all online business as long as you're selling coaching services.
Christine: And I think what sets us maybe-
Kendra Perry: [inaudible 00:32:55] you sell a product, but it would be specific to. If you just have a product, this is probably not for you. But you don't do consulting, online coaching, you want to sell high ticket coaching programs, and eventually group programs, then this is for you regardless of [crosstalk 00:33:09].
Christine: Exactly. Especially when you're selling something where you tell yourself, or where the people are, where they don't necessarily see financial revenue immediately. It's not necessarily for someone who's going to afterwards say, "If you do this, you will have six-figure business." That's not necessarily it. But for things that are a little bit more intangible like mindset or health where we know it is the most important thing in your life.
The people just tend to be a little bit more weird about spending money on it because we do this every day. That's Kendra's online business. So we know how to sell that in a way that it's an integrity with you. You don't have to lie obviously do anything like that. So it's just different. And whether it is exactly like ... I don't even know what else could there be. Mode, or EMF, all of these things, self love, how to just sell these more intangible things that we don't know are absolutely essential and crucial for living a happy life. So that's where our forte is, I reckon. That's how I would describe it.
Kendra Perry: Totally. Yeah, and we're both super excited about it, and that's going to kick off January. So there is lots of time to sign up and get more information, if you guys are interested. We do have a deadline just for some bonuses. So if you guys are interested, definitely connect with us. In the show notes we'll basically give you every way to connect with us, whether you want to connect with us through email, through Facebook Messenger, or you can also hop on a call with either me or Christine and we'll just hash it out with you. We just want to help you make the right choice for you. Okay?
Christine: Exactly. Having said that, though, we are officially launching this at the FDN conference, which is going to be the 4th of November is our day. So you will listen to this later. So we have these extra bonuses that are going to be available until the 15th of November.
So listen to this and if you are like, "Okay, I really want to do this," just don't wait too long because they will be gone. It sucks when you listen to this later. It's just the way it is. We'll be kicking off in January. So still get in touch with us even if it's later. But that's just a couple of bonuses that will be gone by then.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, totally. Yeah. I think before the 15th if you sign up, we'll cover the cost of your retreats first, and the second one as well depending on what tier you sign up for. But that'll be on the 15th. So we're doing a super, super early bird, which is going to be super sweet. So if you hear this, let us know. But even if it is after that date, still connect with us because you can split it in. But we are capping it. We are taking a little bit in an amount of people. I think our cap is maybe like 20 or so. I don't know.
Christine: That's the absolute max, yeah. Absolute max.
Kendra Perry: Absolutely max. Yeah, so if you're hearing this on the podcast and you weren't with us at the conference, get in touch right away because we actually don't know how many people are going to sign up from the conference. And it could just be that it-
Christine: Almost sold out.
Kendra Perry: ... almost sold out then and there's only a few spots left when you're hearing this.
Christine: Yeah. All right. And I think that's pretty much it. So get in touch. Thank you again so much for listening to us. We really appreciate it so much. We appreciate every interaction we get on Instagram, we get on iTunes. We really do. This is not just us saying, "Oh, that's cute." But it's truly making our hearts every time we see this. So thank you.
Kendra Perry: Thanks everyone. We will see you in one week from today with the next episode. If you like this episode and you learned something from it, you can take a screenshot of it, share it to your Instagram stories, mention @360healthbizpodcast, and just let us know your take home. Let us know what you learned and we will share your story to ours. And for bonus points, leave us a five star review on iTunes.
We do currently have a contest going on, which is still going to be going on at the time that this episode drops. And you can win the 10 books that helped me and Christine build our six-figure businesses plus a business audit. So basically we'll audit your social media and website and send you a report that basically says, "Don't do this. This is good. This is bad." With love [inaudible 00:37:14]. All right, guys, thank you so much for tuning in, and we will see you next time.
Today our topic is related to planning! Which took us awhile to realize that you actually need a plan to make strides in your business. And this doesn’t mean that on January 1 you buy a fancy marble printed notebook and by January 14 it starts collecting dust in your drawer.
Today on the 360 Health Biz Podcast, we discuss how planning can help you with your goals...for the rest of 2019 and starting 2020 with a bang! To determine what a kind of life changing experience this can be, we have Amber McCue, Founder of the Planathon here to go deeper into why we need to plan and set goals.
Amber stated “when we put a plan in place for our business, research from the state of the small business owner reflects that you will grow over 60% faster than if you don't put a plan.” MIND.BLOWN.
By planning out what you want to do with your business, it will help you grow faster, implement faster and you'll carve hours off the time you would otherwise be spending trying to figure it all out. Rather than flying by the seat of your pants and feel like you need to launch something new every few months, you need to be PRO-active instead of RE-active.
You just step back and plan first.
And it’s okay to start small. This means starting with micro moves and micro plans to get us ready for the macro plans. This could include breaking down five things that you need to accomplish this week to move closer to the goal that you're working towards. The small steps prepare us, and as we think about the plan for the year, you lay out the rocks.
So are you ready to start planning? Tune into the episode to hear all about Amber’s planning strategies and amazing event, the Planathon which just started!
From single mom at the age of 18 to owning two companies that allow her to work from anywhere. Today Amber runs her businesses from Africa, where she currently lives with her family. Amber is the founder of theplanathon.com, threeboudoir.com empowerandrise.com and coaches at ambermccue.com. Through her books, speaking, and in her coaching programs, Amber partners with business owners around the world who want to get more done, realize their dreams, and get freedom for themselves.
Join Amber's Planathon: theplanathon.com/360healthbizpodcast
Say hi on social:
Kendra Perry Instagram: www.instagram.com/kendraperryinc
Christine Hansen Instagram: www.instagram.com/sleeplikeaboss_
Connect with Amber: www.instagram.com/ambermccueTRANSCRIPTS
Christine: Hello everyone and welcome to this brand new episode of 360 Health Biz podcast and it is moi today, Christine with my beautiful hostess with the mostess, Kendra Perry who I love dearly, who makes me laugh, is super sexy and who's just really, really cool basically.
Kendra Perry: Okay.
Christine: Then to blow your mind today even a little bit more we have a fantastic, fantastic, fantastic guest today who I had the honor of meeting just a couple of weeks ago, blew my mind, zebras and everything. We will fill you in. And I will introduce her in just a little bit, but before we're getting started on an amazing juicy topic today as well, we want to appreciate you because you have been giving us some love. So Kendra take it from here.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, so we have a really awesome five star review from our biggest fan. We've already given her a shout out on this podcast but she deserves two shout outs because she's awesome.
Kendra Perry: And her name's Angela Brown and we were just saying before the podcast that she seems to take everything we teach and then implement it. I almost think we should bring her on as a case study because she's so-
Christine: I think we should.
Kendra Perry: I think we should. We should talk to her. She's probably like, "Oh my God." Anyways, so Angela Brown says, "Best podcast! Exclamation mark. Seriously love this podcast. I learn so much every time I listen and you guys are so genuine and real and make it easy to listen and learn. Your content is always incredible. Love you guys." And of course we love you, Angela. Thank you so much for being our fan.
Christine: We love you. Totally. We totally appreciate it. It's just the best thing ever. I feel really special. Thank you. So our guest today is the absolutely wonderful and amazing Amber McCue. So let me dish her official bio for you here. From a single mom at the age of 18, Amber, to owning two companies that allow her to work from anywhere. Today Amber runs a business from Africa where she currently lives with her family. She is the founder of the planathon.com, threeboudoir.com and powerandrise.com and firstname.lastname@example.org. So through her books, speaking in and in her coaching programs, Amber partners with business owners around the world who want to get more done, realize their dreams and get freedom for themselves. I mean what is not to love about that? Right? It's like yeah, sign me up.
So today our topic is related to the first URL that we talked about, which is the Planathon and Kendra and I... Well for Kendra probably not, but for me it took a little bit to really realize that I need a plan and at the same time I think I have a planner for every year. And I use it from January 1st til January 14th usually. And they're really beautiful planners. I have the desire map, I have the [inaudible 00:03:04], all kinds of different ones. The passion planner, I think it's called, really beautiful things. I just never do it. And so I'm really excited to learn about, first of all, how planning can help you with your goals because I think a lot of us, we just don't realize how important and how... What a kind of life changing experience this can be and then Amber is obviously hopefully also going to walk us through how you can do that and her amazing program, the Planathon which is going to start very shortly. So super, super excited about this.
Amber McCue: Yes. Oh my goodness. You are so not alone in your practice of, "I've got a new planner." 14 days later, what planner?
Christine: I know. And then it's like September and I'm like, "Aah."
Amber McCue: So true. And it's so funny because in the Planathon, right, we've got a group of people who are... 15,000 entrepreneurs come together every year and are preparing for the year ahead. And there are some good reasons for it because for those of you that may not think you need a plan, I want to invite you to rethink that, because when we put a plan in place for our business, research from the state of the small business owner reflects that you will grow over 60% faster than if you don't put a plan.
Christine: Well Kendra we need to screenshot this later because it's just like-
Kendra Perry: I can't do this and screenshot at the same time.
Christine: [inaudible 00:04:33] Excited. It's like, "What?"
Amber McCue: Yeah.
Christine: And I think I read this study before, but it's like again, what? It's crazy.
Amber McCue: I mean and I was like are you sure? Let's dig into that a little bit more, but there's so much research out there that supports you'll grow faster, that supports you'll be able to implement faster and you'll carve hours off the time you would otherwise be spending trying to figure it out while you're implementing. If you just step back and plan first. And I talk about it and this is a phrase I'm sure people have heard before, but slow down to speed up. Right? Yeah we've got to slow down a little bit. We're going to breathe. We're going to be intentional. Because I don't think it's the... It's not the act of planning and putting everything in a spreadsheet and putting it on the calendar. But what happens is we go into a different space in our brain and we're thinking strategically and we're stepping and elevating into that visionary CEO role. And it just gives us so much fuel for growth.
Christine: I'm excited [crosstalk 00:05:32].
Kendra Perry: Yeah I really love that.
Christine: Tingling all over. Say that sentence again. Too slow for speed? Is that it?
Amber McCue: Slow it down to speed up.
Christine: We need a teacher.
Kendra Perry: It's so good. Because we were saying before we started recording, like I haven't... I'm not the best of... I'm not a good planner. I fly by the seat of my pants. But how I felt all of 2019, well it was a very successful year for me in business. I felt like I was in this reactive state because it was just like, "Oh crap, I need to launch this" and "Oh my God, this is coming up so I can't launch then." And I was trying to just work things around and it was just... I ended up having to launch a course when I had all these trips in the middle of it. So I was in the mountains for seven days and I came flying out of the mountains after technical disconnect to launching and I was like, "This is ridiculous. Why am I doing this?"
Christine: I don't know how you did it.
Kendra Perry: And I don't want that for 2020. I don't want to live in a reactive state. I want to have at least somewhat of a framework.
Amber McCue: Yes. It's so funny because we actually in my program, Freshly Implemented, we had a client who was launching and going on vacation at the same time. But as she was getting closer to the vacation she realized, "Oh my goodness, I'm not going to have internet for five days." So one of our team members, a mentor in Freshly Implemented stepped in and said, "I got you. I'll watch your ads for the week." So we were backing each other up. But one of the simplest things that we can do, and we actually do this together in a live workshop at the end of the Planathon, is just look at the months, January through the end of the year and put your rocks in there. Right? I'm going to Bali in October and I'm going to be in the States for an event in February.
So you don't overlap and then weave everything else around it. For us, one of the rocks I put in is every Fall, we are hosting the Planathon. So no trips, family. And don't think that you're going to get extra love from me during that season. I just let everybody know. And friends, everybody knows at this point. So putting those big things on. Because I do not think it's important or necessary to go into all of the details for the entire year, just put the rocks on there, position things around. And then we go into details for a shorter period of time, which we can dive into a bit too. But I think if you just put those rocks in place and start to move things around it, you'll at least have the big picture.
I got to say, confession, the first many years of my business, I had way too much on that calendar. And every year I got a little bit smarter and a little bit more realistic and I got a little bit happier in my business and in my life at the same time.
Christine: Yeah. And I'm already seeing that October is going to be pretty full because I already have a conference in October and I know that I also want to do the retreat for my team in October. So I'm like, huh, wait a minute. So it's already, I'm like, damn. But you're right. Less is definitely more. And I feel what happened to me this past six months was I just wanted to focus on my business and suddenly everything happened and it's just proof that life happens. So just make sure you leave that breathing space, I think is just a really wise kind of tip.
Amber McCue: Yeah, it's so true. And in Planathon time, this is the one season... I think Christine, I mentioned this when we were in Tuscany together a couple of weeks ago. This is the season where my hours quadruple and I don't sleep well just because I'm so engaged and so excited about what's happening. I bust out the melatonin. So it's okay if you have a season like okay, this is going to be a little bit more intense than the others. But I know after that I get tremendous breathing room and I get to go back to serving my clients in a very big way and not right... We joke that stretched too thin is a kind of skinny. This will never be in. This way, but we're going to have bursts of our calendar where this is going to be an intense time. But when you look ahead and you forecast, you can plan for that and prepare to take care of yourself and take care of others and take care of your clients while that busy season is happening. So another benefit of, let's think ahead and plan together.
Kendra Perry: Yeah I love that so much because I'm all about lifestyle. I like minimalism in business. I don't want to work seven days a week. I don't even want to work five days a week. And I'm very... My self care, my lifestyle is very important. So I like what you're saying about kind of working your business around the trips you want to do and the things that are important to you from a personal standpoint.
Amber McCue: Yes sure.
Christine: So let's talk a little bit about... Well first of all the statistic is intriguing to me. So why do you think is it that your business grows so much quicker when you plan? Why do... I understand that you have a little bit more structure, but what for example would be a good... What would be a practical example of maybe a client that you worked with and you planned... You didn't plan one year and then you did the next. What happens exactly?
Amber McCue: Oh my goodness. One of my favorite clients. I got a lot of favorites. [crosstalk 00:10:59] Sarah, she is an author and she also runs courses for authors. You can check her out at heartbreathings.com if there are any authors in the house. And we talk regularly before she steps into a project about all right, what comes first? How do I position this? Because she's writing and she's serving authors at the same time. So how do I keep writing and I teach and I engage and I support this community? So she has just... Every year I get a little bit more structured, get a little bit more thoughtful about that plan. And I mean she just had tremendous growth and success in the last year and it is her success to share the details on. So again, go check her out.
But what I can see is that when we are intentional and we're mindful about it... There's this thing, where actually I was working with a coach once and he said, "Your goals are too realistic. Give me the big goal because that's what I want to help you reach." I'm like, "Well here's my big goal but I also want some things that are realistic because otherwise it's like, okay how am I going to get there?" And we get disconnected from where we are today. And what I find is that yes, stretch it a little bit, but it's also okay to be realistic about the near term goals and milestones, because it's achievable and it builds confidence and it builds momentum. And being intentional about these near term goals, which is exactly what Sarah and I are kind of constantly breaking down in our planning goal conversations, helps us build step upon step so that you can get to the big goal. Right?
It's not that the big goal and the big vision isn't going to happen, but we've got steps to take to get there. And I think sometimes it's easy to think super big and to go super big and then it's totally overwhelming and it's totally confusing. Like wait, which road am I going down? How am I going to get there? What path? And I'm a big believer in driving one car at a time because how many cars can you drive at a time? And if you try to drive five, how in the world is this possible? So what's the one thing, the one car, the one destination that we're trying to get to right now, knowing there's something else coming. Right? This isn't the end all be all, but keeping the focus as we go.
Christine: Yeah, and I think for example, I'm a very organic person. So I'm not linear at all, which means that I always have two to three projects at the same time. And it's kind of my way of working. And for a long time I thought that wasn't legit because we are taught the linear way. But it is also a big risk for me to get completely sidetracked. Right? So I allow myself to not just have linear structure. I always have two or three things on there and I bounce from one to the other whenever creativity strikes me and motivation. But I do need a kind of refinement because otherwise it just goes everywhere all over the place. So that makes total sense. And I do like that metaphor of one car. It's totally true. Absolutely yeah.
Kendra Perry: Yeah.
Amber McCue: It's interesting-
Kendra Perry: I was just going to say, I'm thinking of some of our audience who maybe with their business, they're just working with one-on-one clients. So maybe they're wondering, well what am I actually planning for? What are certain things that people should be thinking that they actually need to plan for at the beginning of the year or on a given day in their business?
Amber McCue: So a few things that immediately come to mind are how do you want to live your life? Right? So it's how you're operating and how you're showing up right now in your business with your clients, in alignment with the goals that you have. So many people start businesses for a little bit of freedom. And I can totally speak from experience that this... I was a workaholic in corporate. And I had to overcome that and really reset. How do I want to show up? Because when I am showing up in alignment with who I am and I'm operating in running my business in that way, it's just going to... It better serves everyone, especially my clients.
So I think how you spend your day, are you working at optimal times? For a long time, when I started my business, I never get any time. Sure you want to meet at night? Okay. Maybe not the best thing all the time. Sometimes in busy season, but really thinking about how your day flows and getting structure around that. Something else, your marketing efforts. Big time, got to plan the marketing. We don't market, things get [inaudible 00:15:44]. So constantly having a system in that. And I've got two different ways of marketing. One, in my photography business is very dialed in. We can turn it on, we can turn it off. A couple of weeks ago, Facebook turned it off for us, so we're resetting. Anything can happen, which is why you want to have a plan and maybe a couple of backup plans. And then in the consulting business we don't have that faucet. Right?
It's very much more launch mode. Is that how I want to run my business and my life forever? I don't think so. So I'm doing some planning around that. I very much like my faucet in the photography business and I want a faucet in the consulting business. So think about your marketing and is your marketing working the way that you want it to? And start building a plan and a backup plan for when things get a little bit off. I know oftentimes I hear from people who have one-on-one clients who get fabulous referrals, until they don't.
Kendra Perry: Yeah.
Amber McCue: Something happens, right? And it's not that you did anything wrong, but I'm not getting any referrals right now. Okay let's have a couple of different marketing channels in place. And the third thing that I think is really important, is to have a revenue plan. And your marketing plan and your revenue plan sync right up. And again, it's not about putting numbers in a spreadsheet or having numbers on a whiteboard, it's about getting intentional about where you want your revenue to come from and how you want to serve your clients.
Kendra Perry: That's so good. And I love what you said about referrals because I think referrals are fantastic, but I do see a lot of health coaches, especially relying too much on referrals. And to me, just relying on referrals is almost like relying on hope to drive your marketing and attract clients. Because you're like, "I hope someone's going to refer me." And I've had coaches be like, "Yeah I've just been getting referrals." And they think it's just going to like, that's just going to happen forever, but it's not reliable, and you're not actually like you said, being intentional. You're not going out there. And it's out of your control like you're relying on someone else. And I'm like, that's just not a way to run a sustainable business. And you're right, it does dry up, and then people are just like, "I've got nothing."
Christine: Yeah. And it's very rigid. I think that referrals they know exactly the experience, the one experience they had when working with you so other people experiencing exactly the same thing, although you evolve. So I still get referrals from the babysit business, which was three years ago. I haven't done that for three years, but people still, they don't catch that you change. So it can be quite disappointing actually also when people come because they've been referred to you, and you don't offer a certain service anymore or you've just evolved or your price has changed, you know? So it's a tricky kind of thing I find.
Amber: It is super tricky, and I love that along this referral conversation and thinking about how we want to structure our days and our weeks. Also from the state of the small business owner report. This is a great study that they did. They also revealed that businesses who are growing year over year consistently are spending two days a week on sales and marketing activities. So I sort of start to look at that as the average of the year because I've got some launch seasons where I'm totally spending more than two days a week on marketing. But on average over the year, and I'll flip back into client service mode so time on marketing goes down a bit, but I'm about average two days a week. And it's powerful, right? When you're showing up consistently, when you're engaging with people consistently, what that can do for a business. Again, getting to what you were saying, Christine, being super intentional about what you want to communicate and what you want to share with your audience to attract the right person.
Christine: Great, great. And I do like that too. It makes sense to me like I do less, I have to say, but kind of yes and no. Intentional like scheduled you set everything new content going out is once a week. But then I also catch myself having one other day where I will do a longer Instagram story or where I will do a specifically more elaborated post on Instagram or something like that, you know? So I think, and at the moment my funnel is working really well, like I have lots of preliminary calls booked. I don't know what's happening, but I think it's all connected to that.
It takes a little bit of time to kick in, but there's definitely a lot of truth to it. So let's talk a little bit about the Planathon itself. Right? So I love the word, Planathon. It's like, okay [crosstalk 00:02:38].
Kendra: It rolls off your tongue really nice.
Christine: Planathon, super nice. So tell us a little bit about how does it work? What is it? Is it a product, is it a service? Is it a workshop? What is it?
Amber: Yes, we ... I like to think of it as an event. And someone came to me later and said, "Oh, it's like a virtual summit." Like, "Oh yeah, I guess." But it feels so much bigger. Engagement and connection in this community blows our minds every single year. In fact, we have a team, the A team, helps engagement and just making sure everybody's taken care of in the community during the Planahton. And just yesterday a team member said like, "Oh boy, it's getting busy." Yes, we have a goal to connect with everyone in the community. So when people are engaging and showing up, we are there, and I am there a lot to participate because planning together is a whole lot of fun. And that's what this is about. We bring together a community of entrepreneurs to plan together because when you're in a group, I mean we know this, right? When you're in a group of people who get it, it starts to feel a little bit easier, and some of that, "Oh Okay, I'm not alone anymore," because I just sit at home alone a lot and do my work.
So there's that opportunity for connection. But structurally it's over five days. Actually, we spread it out over seven days. But there are five core days where every day five speakers take our virtual stage and help you plan in one area of business and life. So that is what's hap ... So five videos a day, five speakers taking our virtual stage, and the first day is my favorite day because I am in there connecting most on that day. And that's when we do some of the strategy and the big picture thinking, and then we bring it back at the end of the Planathon with a live workshop where, Kendra, you brought up at the beginning we're going to break down the strategic roadmap for the year. And we've got something super cool that we built this year, which is we're going to break down in that live workshop your modern CEO must do list because so many of us have more than we actually need on the to do list. So we're going to look at based on your stage of business, what should you be focusing on?
Kendra: Oh, that's so sad. I love that. I feel like people are really like obsessed and weird about their to do lists, and they just like create these big to do lists because they love to check things off of them. And I can't even ... When I see people's to do lists, I like, my adrenaline goes up.
Christine: I know. I am not a list doer, but I have one. I actually posted it just today on Facebook, and it's stupid. It's like measuring my fucking garden furniture because I need to find covers for the winter. I'm just like, "How can I outsource this? Like who can I [inaudible 00:05:33] to do that shit for me?" I just like [inaudible 00:05:37]. But, no, I absolutely love it. And just to comment, your speakers are awesome. Obviously there's a really exciting sleep coach who was good. But you have some really big names as well, so give us some examples for people who want to sign up.
Amber: Yes, absolutely. So Amy Porterfield is going to be there speaking on how to grow your list, a key piece in the online world if you're running an online business or even an offline business. So we've got Amy. We've got Denise Duffield-Thomas. Denise always comes out with something magical. So that's going to be the last presentation, like what is Denise going to talk about this year? And it's always mind blowing. So Denise Duffield-Thomas will be there speaking about money and money mindset. We've got Susie Gray coming to speak about your brand fingerprint. How do you really, as you were talking about, Christine, get really known in the market for that thing that you want to be known for and that thing that you do well. There are so many.
Christine: There's so many. Literally when I saw the lineup I was like, "Oh my God, I'm so honored to be part of that."
Amber: Incredible talent. And that's the thing. That was also part of how the Planathon was born. Like there are really cool people doing really cool stuff. Let's talk about it very specifically in the context of getting a plan together. So that's every topic is what is a step you need to take if this is your focus for the year ahead.
Christine: I love that.
Kendra: Yeah, and it's such a good topic to talk about because you know we're recording this at the end of October, and probably when this drops it's probably going to be closer to December. And, you know, we're kind of coming to that crazy Christmas season where everything is overwhelming, and sometimes the business goes on hold a bit depending on what industry you're in. But then January comes, and this is like new year's resolution time. This is when the gyms are packed, and everyone has these big goals that come like February or maybe January 14th like Christine.
Amber: You're out of it.
Kendra: It's kind of out. So is January a really good time to start planning for like when do people have to start thinking about their plan? Like should we do it now or should we wait until the new year? Let me know.
Christine: Actually we're going to squeeze this episode in, so I talked to our assistance. Are we going to squeeze it in so that it's before the Planathon launched so when people listen to it they can actually sign up. But it is a good question, why now and not January?
Amber: Now. It's so funny because when we first ran the Planathon it was like mid November. I'm like, "Okay, I'm going to host this and that in December. Is that good timing for everyone? No, we want it now." So I'm like, "Okay." And over the years we backed it up just a little bit because the holidays get busy. Right? Thanksgiving in the States, and there's some stuff happening as we move toward the end of the year. So it's the last week of October into the first week of November.
Kendra: This is soon.
Amber: This is next week.
Kendra: Awesome. I'm in. Where can I sign up?
Amber: I'm going to tell you, I actually did full on intensive planning back in July of this year. And it was the best thing ever because I was planning for the Planathon, and I'm updating some of our content, and I'm working on the Fresh Start workbook that we share. And I went deep because when the Planathon comes I get a little bit busy. So I'm like, "I'm going to go deep right now." I always go deep in December as well. But I went extra deep this July, and it was incredible. Our team is already moving forward on some of those things to set us up for 2020. So I'm implementing, but we're also thinking ahead, right? And what you were talking about, Christine, we don't run linear businesses. But it's sometimes really helpful to help us get our brains organized and help people understand what we're doing if we have some linear descriptions of what it is.
So I put that together in July, and now we've got a couple of things going. Our focus is super clear. We are absolutely in the Planathon car, right? So the sooner you plan, the sooner it's going to help you determine this is the car I'm driving right now. Okay. But maybe I need to take a detour or I'm going to just pop over here for one minute, but I've got to get back in my car as fast as I can. And that's going to ensure you get results.
Kendra: Yeah. I love this too because I know for health coaches especially, especially newer health coaches, like this isn't so much true for people when they get more established. But November, December can be more quiet times, right? This is the time where people are like, "Fuck health, I'm going to drink that beer at eat the fucking turkey," you know. So they're not investing in a health program. January, though, is massive. So obviously January would be the worst time to start planning because that's when everyone's coming in the door. This is a perfectly timed Planathon for our health coach community because November, December. You know, if you don't have that many clients do something that is going to actually help build your business and start to plan. I love this. I'm so on board.
Amber: Yeah, and we see each other that week, Kendra, actually, so we can actually exchange notes.
Kendra: That's so fun. I did also have a ... I have a friend who's starting her fitness and health coaching business here in Ethiopia, and she said, "Hey do you want to join?" I'm like, "Yeah, I'm definitely joining the next round. I got some goals." And she said, "Okay, you do want to start in November, December?" I'm like, "January, January please." And she's like, "Oh yeah." It's to your point, exactly, like things just kind of start to bake. And we need those breaks. Again, slow down to speed up. And I put rocks in my year for every December and every July. I slow way down because [crosstalk 00:11:26].
Christine: I love that, absolutely. And I think it's going to be also, you know, you have beginners where it's literally, "How can I make my business grow and structured day to day," and we evaluate. So one rock could literally just been having a reevaluation day of everything, seeing what has worked and what hasn't. And then for people who have bigger teams already, it's more of the CEO cap as to, "Where is my company going right now? What is the flow? What do I need to connect with? How do I grow it? How can I serve my team?" You know, so I think this really works on every scale. And I love also the fact that you can just take a break, you know, and that you plan for a month to just be intentional about evaluating what is happening and allowing yourself maybe also to say, "Okay, I need to redo this."
It's, I've probably seen it this way, but it's not working. So being open and being, yeah, allowing, giving yourself permission to actually shift in case it's not working. So do you have like a second Planathon in the middle of the year?
Amber: We actually ... People ask about that, that's so funny. One year we did sort of a mini Planathon, but it's just not the same. And then this past year we did a reflection event where you're checking in on all of those things. And that was a really enjoyable experience. And the power of reflection is huge. And if you start from a plan, if you have a revenue plan, if you've got like these are my marketing plans or this was all the stuff I had on my calendar, it's not quite working, you have a foundation that you can reflect from and reassess. And I think you're spot on. When you start to capture those things, when you start to capture the data, like where are my leads coming from? Okay I got to get some more leads over here because I have all my eggs in one basket or I want to stack some things, that is really powerful.
But it all starts with writing down the initial plan and then building in those checkpoints to come back to it. And I actually recommend people ... We started, actually my clients and I, we started reflecting quarterly because I believe in building out quarterly, more detailed quarterly plans than the whole 12 months. And we were doing some reflections. I was like, "We should actually do this every week." So I reflect on those areas of my business and my life weekly now. And that's powerful too for the micro adjustments we want to make.
Kendra: Yeah I think it's really important. And I actually started using a planner for the first time. It's the Best Self Journal. And I'm also very interested in your journal because I know you have a planner as well. But it's cool because at the end of the week it's like what were the wins and like what were the lessons learned? And it honestly helps.
I'm like, "I did this, and that didn't work. I reacted really poorly to that. So I obviously need to meditate more because that was super reactive. And that didn't work." And like, you know, that sort of thing. And I just love that reflection. And it also has something where it's like, "What am I grateful for today? What am I grateful for tonight?" And I think it's really important because, you know, we can kind of just get in that go, go, go sort of space. I think we're all kind of socially conditioned for that. But, you know, I wish I had known more about the importance of planning when I first started a business because I kind of just let things run. I was running it, but I just was chasing things. And I ended up building a business, like this monster that I fucking hated.
And it was overwhelming. It wasn't in line with my lifestyle. And I was just like, "What did I just create?" Like, "Sure, I'm making a lot of money, but this is actually not what I want." And so I had to really rethink and start pulling things off my plate and really think about what type of business is actually going to support my lifestyle. And I think that can happen when you're new and you're starting a business from a place of deficits because you're broke as fuck and you're like, "I just need to get clients and get money." So you end up chasing a lot of things that maybe aren't necessarily in line with that bigger purpose, right?
Kendra: And I think for me, I didn't even ... I thought I knew my bigger purpose, but I didn't really. And it kept evolving. And, Christine, we talked about this as well in Tuscany. I, my bigger purpose just came to me two years ago, and I've been in business for 10 years. But I knew it was coming, and I knew I would figure it out. And I was careful though not ... I would check myself because sometimes you know those workaholic things would come in like, "Okay, no. Dial it back." Reflection helps identify those things sooner, and there are totally things that I held myself back on because I knew it wasn't the thing. For example, someone, my clients at one point said to me, "Okay, now you need to create the bigger mastermind." Yeah. What the fuck? It's not time yet. I'm not ready. And, you know, they listen to what your audience is asking for, and yes. And also check in with what you want and what is in line with what you're ready for. And fast forward, you know, years later, okay I'm ready. It's not all right on time.
Christine: I love that. I've just been talking about it today, you know, where you need to be confident in whatever it is that you do, whether it is product or service, you know. And I am the believer of high end. I mean I do charge high end prices, but I would never have been able to do that if I hadn't been confident enough to do that. I wouldn't be able to sell it that way. So I really love that too, sometimes go against the mainstream kind of advice and go against your inner gut feeling saying you're not ready yet. And it's fine not to be ready yet. I really think that it's an important message to share and again, you know, to slowing down purposefully and really checking in and seeing and staying in that alignment. For sure. I love that.
Amber: I love how you phrase that. It's okay to not be ready yet. And that's why I think those micro moves and those micro plans, they get us ready. The small steps prepare us, and as we think about the plan for the year, right, you lay out the rocks and you put in the launches. And then you bring it back to 90 days. I'm a big believer in breaking down your 30, 60, 90 day plan, right? All the way back to corporate. Lots of great leaders who were using that strategy and it was powerful because you get momentum fast. But sometimes a 90 day plan is even too much, right? If you're just starting out you can't even see three ... I don't know. Like, I don't know. What do they want? Okay. Talk to your clients first or talk to who you think your target audience is first. Then come back and build a one week plan.
Okay. And after you get through that two weeks, three weeks, and then continue to build it out. So you can think ... And it's a still contrary because we're like, "Think big, you can do anything." Yes. And you can also start small because like we said, these things add up and confidence builds. And you can go bigger. And new opportunities are opened to us little by little as we're taking action. So I think that's really the key piece for me. Build the plan and take action on that plan.
Kendra: It's so true. I love that. And so how about some like actionable steps for our listeners? I know what actionable step number one is. It's to join the Planathon. We know that. But like what are some things, like what are some small things people can do to kind of put the stuff we're talking about into action right now?
Amber: Yeah, 100%, so if you ... And this is really where we get into customization, right, of what's going on for you and your business right now. But if you don't have any, no plan, I got nothing, like, I don't know, think about your vision, right? Even if it's not fully baked yet, it's okay to think about where you want to be going. I have this analogy when we were on a safari in Masai Mara Kenya, the driver was totally lost. He had no idea where we were going. He was so apologetic and [crosstalk 00:19:33].
Christine: That's reassuring.
Amber: All right guys. And he literally said, "You're trusting my little brain, and I don't know. I'm so sorry." Here's where we should be going. Like this is kind of what we're looking for, a big tree off to the left. There's a tree [crosstalk 00:19:52], but the whole time my husband and I are like, "This is good." We were enjoying every minute of this ride. And that's what I want for us in our businesses. And, "Oh, over there, Oh, there's a cheetah." The guy goes, "See the cheetah," and Simon, "Sorry guys, we're going to be late. This isn't safe for us to be in the park," but we detour a little bit. And then there's a pack of lions. And, "Oh gosh. Okay. We got to stop for the lions that are right in front of us." We go a little bit further, and we see the hippos in the river that we have to cross to find this tree.
Okay, that's a little scary. Just like in business, right? We're making steps forward. We don't quite know where we're going, but we have this idea of a destination in mind. And it might be a mirage, but it's going to get clear and clear the further we, the closer we get to it. Even if we don't know what exactly. Just one car, little detours, right? But stay in that car. And I think that creating that vision, even if it's foggy, so important. And then you take action steps to move closer to it. But what action steps am I taking? Put those rocks in your plan. Then bring it back. Build your 90 day plan. If you can't think 90 days out, start with a week, start with two weeks. And then after you have that personalized plan in place, right, very, very much personalized. Business is not one size fits all by any means nor is our life. So we want to marry those things up.
Then you work it every single week. And I highly recommend you take 15 minutes every Monday or Sunday if you prefer. I'm a Monday girl because I'm still weekending on Sunday. And a breakdown, these are the five things, five things, three things, right, that you need to accomplish this week to move closer to the goal that you're working towards, which also means you've got to have a goal defined. What is it that we're even working towards? Again, I think the goal should be a little bit closer and crystal clear like the milestones along the way on our journey to the big tree.
Christine: I love this. It's not overwhelming either and I love. You know, we had this discussion, as you said, in Tuscany that your goal doesn't have to be defined yet. And it doesn't necessarily need to be I'm going to save the world. I'm going to save the planet. I'm going to be the next super role model for women or whatever it is. You know, sometimes you just don't know, but you know kind of. You know at least the feeling, you know, and that is enough. I love that. I really do.
Kendra: Know the feeling, and that's enough. Yeah, and clarity will come.
Christine: Yeah, I think that too. This is amazing. So tell us, how does this thing work now? What do people do? So we are airing this for our next episode I think we squeezed it into. So what do people do?
Amber: So, you go to theplanathon.com and sign up. And then we're going to guide you through the process. We're going to share with you the link to the Facebook group. And we keep it on Facebook just it's accessible, it's super easy for people, and it's all happening there. Speakers are going to take the stage, and we've got extra materials for you as a part of that, some extra worksheets as you're working through and building your plan. So we'll share with you a 90 day plan template.
And if you've got all of the ideas, and you're not quite sure what your next move is, we're going to help you prioritize and give you a framework to think about, "All right, this is what I should be focused on," versus all the things. So we're going to just guide you through it. And I want to remind you and encourage you in all areas of business and life. You don't have to do all of the things in this plan.
Christine: Oh, I love that.
Amber: So we're a lot of speakers. Don't try to watch all of the videos. Watch those that are relevant to you and your business right now because you're going to get exactly what you need out of it.
Christine: I love it.
Kendra: I love it so much. I'm going to sign up. I'm so excited to plan. I never thought I'd say that. This is crazy.
Christine: I can see you being a great planner, actually. It's so funny.
Kendra: Yeah, oh my God. I should get my partner. He has an online business too, and he's like super into organization. This might actually be the perfect thing for him like totally geeking out.
Amber: I mean from social media to mindset to money, covered.
Kendra: Awesome. I love it. So everyone should go sign up for the Planathon. Me and Christine will be involved. Christine, you're speaking there. And one more thing I want to note before we leave today is since we, this episode is going to be going out on the end of October me and Christine are going to be in person at the same time, which is a fucking unicorn. We're basically looking at the functional diagnostic nutrition conference in San Diego. So if there's any FDNs out there who are attending the conference, we're going to be speaking at 9:00 AM and 10:00 AM on the Sunday. And make sure to come up and say hi to us. We can't wait to connect with you, hang out, and actually like touch your face.
Well we won't do that. But like, you know, like hug you, you know like embrace, like connect in real life because through the computer screen is just not the same. So we're [crosstalk 00:25:13]. Yeah, I'll be like, "Eww," but, no, it's going to be great. We're really excited to hang out with all of you guys. And, Amber, thank you so much. It's so cool. Thank you so much for being on our podcast because you're in Africa, and I have no idea what fucking time it is there, but hopefully you're not in the middle of the night right now.
Amber: It's early, very early.
Kendra: Okay, oh okay. Well, you look great, and I love that we can coordinate so many time zones on this podcast because we're always doing it. So thank you so much. This is awesome. And so theplanathon.com is where everyone needs to go to sign up so that you can get organized for 2020 be 60% more successful. Right?
Amber: Love that.
Christine: All right everyone. So we'll get back to you in a couple of weeks with our newest episode. And please leave a review if this was helpful for you. Please, please, please go to [inaudible 00:26:10] and leave us a fast five star review. Go to Instagram stories and do a little screenshot, and we will appreciate it. Thank you.
Kendra: Oh, and one more thing. So leave a review because we have a contest going on right now. So, if you go leave us a five star review, you know, if you feel like we deserve it, we will enter you into our contest to win. And we're going to send you the 10 business books that we basically credit with building our six figure businesses. Plus we're going to give you a business audit, which basically gets our eyes on your business to look at your social media and website. We're going to send you a report about everything that you need to optimize or everything that is working for you.
So I think that's pretty fucking valuable. And all you need to do is go take two minutes of your time to leave us a five star review. So make sure to do that because that's going to go until, I think, like beginning of November. So if you haven't done it, do it now.
Christine: Perfect. All right.
Kendra: That's all I got.
Christine: No, that is pretty much a lot. So with that we are signing out from Canada, Luxembourg, and Africa, or Ethiopia to be correct if we're going to go with countries. So Africa is not ... All right, anyways, hope you have a lovely week, and we'll talk to you again soon. Bye.
A lead magnet is often called many things - freebie, free gift, free offer, opt-in. Whatever you want to call it, the purpose of a lead magnet is to get people on your email list and lead them into a sale. A lead magnet comes in many forms – it can be a link or button that leads people somewhere to fill out their information, it can be a download when you subscribe to your newsletter, it can be a contest, a free gift, a web series, a video…the list goes on and on. In today’s episode, we provide 5 reasons why your lead magnet may not be converting and what you can do to change that.
So here they are:
Number one: Your lead magnet is too much…as in it’s too difficult to understand or too long that people lose interest.
Number two: Nobody knows about it because you don't talk about it. Like we have said many times over…you can’t put a sign up and expect people to come. Just like everything else in starting a new business, it requires promotion and needs to be talked about repeatedly. When YOU get sick of talking about it, that means you’ve talked about it enough.
Number three: Your lead magnet has nothing to do with how you serve people or what you sell. An example of this would be you help women with thyroid concerns but your lead magnet is a healthy food challenge that has nothing to do with the thyroid. There's ZERO connection there.
Say hi on social:
Kendra Perry Instagram: www.instagram.com/kendraperryinc
Christine Hansen Instagram: www.instagram.com/sleeplikeaboss_
Kendra: Yo. Yo, yo. What's up? 360 Health Biz peeps, It is your girl. It is Kendra Perry, and I am so stoked for this episode of the 360 Health Biz podcast, as always [inaudible 00:00:15] and I am with Christine today, my business bestie and deliciously sexy cohost, who looks like she's in her lingerie, right now, so definitely check- [crosstalk 00:00:22]
Christine: I kind of am. It was too hot. I just took massive woolen over. It's starting to get Fall and crispy cold, but then it's super hot. I don't know. It's weird.
Kendra: It's weird, but you look hot, and so guys, check us out on YouTube if you want to see how hot Christine is now.
Christine: With any means necessary we'll get you there.
Kendra: We have a great topic, as always, for you guys today. We're going to be talking about lead magnets, and for some of you guys, you might know what that is and maybe feel frustrated with it. Then, for maybe some of you newer people out there, you're like, "Well, what the fuck is a lead magnet?"
It's very important. You definitely need one in your business. We're going to talk today about why your lead magnet isn't converting, so for those of you who are like, "I don't know what you're talking about, Kendra," we're going to tell you what a lead magnet is. We're going to tell you what does converting mean. We're going to go into that today and give you five reasons why your lead magnet isn't leading to your bottom line.
This is going to be juicy, as always. You know, we like to dish out the juice, so that's what we're doing today.
Oh my gosh. I think that I think I'm too funny, but anyways. [inaudible 00:01:24]
Christine: I find you hilarious.
Kendra: Christine has a... Actually, we have a review we want to read, and we actually have a very special shout-out for who appears to be our biggest fan at the moment, so we just want to make sure that he knows that we love her and we appreciate her, so Christine, why don't you take it away and read those reviews and do that shout-out.
Christine: Yup, so we have our first review that we want to read, and it's by Biz Underway, and she or he says, I'm not sure, as an FDN, this podcast is giving me the specific information I need to develop my online business presence. It's an exhalation of relief.
Biz Underway, we totally get you, and thank you so much for that review. We really appreciate it and are so happy that we're able to help.
The other person that we love to [inaudible 00:02:12] and that always makes my day, so I really want to say thank you is Angela Brown, so she's A-N-G, or ang_brownholistichealth on Instagram and she always shares our stories on her feed, it's super nice. Thank you so, so much. We totally appreciate you and love you lots.
Kendra: Love you. We appreciate our fans, and guys, If you want to get a shout-out like Angela, all you need to do is take a screenshot of this episode when you're listening, share it to your Instagram stories. Mention 360 Health Biz podcast, and then we will tell you we love you. We will throw those emoji hearts your way.
Christine: Laughing emojicons, you know, like hearts, stars emoji-
Kendra: Oh, totally.
Christine: All on your way.
All right. Let's get going. I think one of the first things is, the first point that we have is what is a lead magnet? I just want to get the vocabulary out there a little bit, because it's called a lot of different ways, but I think lead magnet is one of the most popular ones.
To paraphrase it, you could also use freebie. Other people say free gift or free offer-
Christine: ... and opt-in, exactly, and I think those are the words that are used most of the time. Whenever people talk about that, and I find free gift is the most confusing for a lot of people, actually.
Kendra: It is confusing, because you're like, "What is that? What are you going to open up your trench coat and show me your genitals? What's happening here?"
Christine: That didn't occur to me, actually.
Kendra: That's what I think of, but I have a dirty brain.
Christine: [inaudible 00:03:46] I'll never be able to do this again, but yes. For example, I just find it doesn't translate into the business kind of aspect of it.
We're going to talk about that today because if it's a free gift, we tend to be a little bit too generous sometimes, and that's one of the mistakes that we're going to talk about.
Just to make sure that we know what we talk about, and it's basically, what it is, is when you go to a website, it comes in many different shapes and forms, actually.
Sometimes it's very subtle, and you just have a link to click on. Sometimes you just have a button to click on, and it will lead you somewhere else, where you have to fill in your address, and so forth.
Sometimes it's like this pop-in thing, and sometimes you immediately have to fill in your name and email address.
The most old school one I find is subscribe to my newsletter. That is basically old school.
Kendra: Which doesn't work.
Christine: Which doesn't work. Very rarely, but you know, that's a very old school one, but that's how it started, and I think-
Kendra: That's how it started.
Christine: ... most of us, back a couple of years, a few years, that would have been it on a website. That's what we call basic lead magnet.
Kendra: Primarily what the purpose of it is, is to get people on your email list. People aren't just going to give away their email addresses for nothing, and especially these days. People are pretty hesitant to give away their email address, because there's a lot of people trying to get their email address, so they like to hold onto it, but if you offer something... so, you've got to kind of bribe people. You've got to entice them to join your email list, and you might be giving away a cheat sheet, a checklist, an e-book, a web series, a video. Something like that. It's something that you give for free of value to kind of get people on to your email list so that you can create relationships with them. You can nurture them, you can get to know them, and eventually sell your product or service to them.
Christine was saying about the newsletter, that was back in the day, like when I first started blogging in 2011, that's what I had. Subscribe to my newsletter, and people would actually do it. They were just, "I want your newsletter."
These days, people are, "Well, what does that mean? I don't know what a newsletter is. What is that?" There's nothing interesting about it anymore, and so if that's what you have on your website, It's not going to lead to people opting in to your email list, because it's just not juicy enough, right?
Christine: Exactly. [crosstalk 00:06:06]
When receiving emails, you don't want anything else to spam. Everything you get from offers of your super market, things that you actually didn't agree to sign up on. Suddenly you're getting emails from the hotel you stayed at. The airline that you booked with or whatever.
Kendra: Yeah, and that drives me crazy, because I don't opt in for a lot of things but people are marketing to me and its completely illegal by the way guys. You need to get permission, and you need to be very clear and transparent, with the fact you are asking them to join your marketing list, and you're going to give them that free thing. They need to be well aware that they need to say yes. Right? It's like sometimes you sign up for an appointment with someone, or you purchase a product and then suddenly you're getting marketed to, and you're, "I didn't sign up for this."
Christine: It's not cool.
Kendra: It's not cool. It's very invasive right? For those of you who are brand new to this, you might be wondering how do I get their email address? How does this happen? What people are generally going to have, like Christine said; there going to have a pop up on the website. You guys have all seen this, you get on to websites and something pops up. That is a way to deliver it. A lot of people have what's called a landing page, it's basically a single page that just kind of tells people what its about, and why they need it. Why it's going to be helpful.
Kendra: That's something that you get with a third party landing page software.
Christine: Exactly, and the way that it's different from a regular website is there isn't a menu. There's basically nothing that distracts you to click somewhere else or to go somewhere else. The only focus is on this one thing, which is to basically sell you the idea that you need this. The currency is your email address. That's basically it.
Kendra: That's basically it.
Christine: Examples of lead magnets, let me just see, so I don't jump too much ahead.
Kendra: No. I think that's fine.
Christine: What are examples of a lead magnet? We've already talked about it a little, but the most popular ones I reckon are I think, checklists. Are huge.
Christine: A lot of people, and the company called Lead Pages, is a company that specialize on designing those. You can do it yourself, but they've done a lot of experiments, and they said that the checklist is really popular because it's easy to consume. People don't spend a lot of time on it. Those are things that work very well. The same is for the report, works really way. Back in the day e-books were really popular, now I would say not so much. They're just too long, people are like, "I don't have time to read." A small mini training at a point a lot of people did this drip kind of thing where you get one part of a training day one, day two, than day four. I think that's already too long. People don't really have the attention span for that anymore.
Kendra: Yeah, I feel like it's going to take a lot for people to get to the end.
Kendra: When we're talking about, the title of this podcast is "5 reasons why lead magnet isn't converting." What do we mean by convert? We mean getting people on your email list, and then that leading to a sale. Right? That's what we want. We don't just want to give someone away something for free and then disappear and then just sit there and prey and hope that they're going to eventually sell. We actually want to lead them into a sale, or a free sales call, or a program or some sort of low price offer, whatever it is. That's what we mean when we say conversion and convert. It's actually turning that lead, that person who is exchanging their email address with you to turn into your potential client right?
Kendra: Let's talk about... [crosstalk 00:09:36] Sorry, go ahead Christine.
Christine: The [inaudible 00:09:38] conversion would basically be they get on your landing page, or they see your offer, do they actually sign up? That's definitely the conversion you should track. How many people have seen it, and how many people have actually entered their email address? If you see that a lot of people have seen it, but they haven't given you their email address then somethings wrong. [crosstalk 00:09:54] that too would be to see, now they've given me their email address, they're curious they're obviously interested what I have to offer. How many of those are actually then taking the next step, saying the second yes to purchasing something from you? We're going to talk about how all of that is structured as in, how do you sell, what do you sell, in a series that is coming up soon, so stay tuned for that.
Kendra: Yeah, we're going to have an email marketing series. Today what we're going to tell you; the five reasons why your lead magnet sucks. Okay. Basically why, I see this a lot. This is something I struggled with a lot when I was brand new, a lot of the coaches I'm talking to just can't figure out. They're like, "I have this lead magnet, I put all this effort into it but it's not working for me." We're going to break down the five primary reasons why. The first one is actually something Christine alluded to earlier. Your lead magnet may be too much of a chore, to consume and it just takes them way too long to get through. Christine said that back in the day e-books did really well, you could give away this 100 page, 50 page e-book, and people would just eat it up. These days people just don't have the attention span.
If your lead magnet is too much of a chore to get through, even though people are signing up for it, they just don't get to the end of it. That's not going to lead your bottom line. Even though, I'm sure it's super juicy and its super good and you put your heart and soul into it. If it's too long people just aren't going to get through it. What you want is for people to get a result from your lead magnet. You want them to actually learn something of value, or actually maybe implement something from your lead magnet and be like, "wow that really worked." That's their first time coming into contact with you, your business and your brand and if they have that positive experience right out of the gate they're going to be like whoa, [crosstalk 00:11:47] this dude, this is cool. I'm going to pay attention. Right?
Kendra: E-books, don't do it. I see a lot of health coaches be like I'm going to do an e-book and I'm like, "no, no, no."
Christine: No. Even if I have a 5 page e-book, I'm not going to read it. I'm just going to skip everything and jump to the last page for example. Its instant gratification. Add in a little secret hot tip in there with something that can immediately be implemented or what else you can do is to have them something that they really didn't know.
Christine: For me for example it would be; here are three [inaudible 00:12:28] that you didn't know about, and also people have no idea that it could be the thyroid or a bit of hormonal food for example, it just allows them to immediately see, there's something new I've learned there. My day is better for it. Instant gratification is absolutely key.
Kendra: Fantastic, I love that. I think that checklists, if you want to do a guide, call it a quick guide make it very apparent that this is just a quick guide. I'm not going to dump all this crazy information on you. I'm giving you a quick guide. Checklist, cheat sheet, gift guide, maybe a quick video or a video series or something that [crosstalk 00:13:02]
Christine: A review maybe, if you have [inaudible 00:13:05] if you wanted to do the best five supplements for your thyroid or something like that. People love that stuff.
Kendra: People love that. What you want to test is when you actually make it and then read it as if you're a reader, then time how long it takes you to get through it. If it takes more than ten minutes too long really that five minute mark is pretty juicy right? People just want to get that information and move on, but if you give them say five supplements to help with thyroid or something like that and they try one of those supplements and they're like, "oh my god, my thyroid symptoms feel better." They're going to be so sold on you, they're going to be like, "this person is amazing, I'm going to follow them on social media I'm going to see what else they have." It's just a really good starting point. Don't be afraid to give away your best tips in that lead magnet, because you're really trying to impress.
Christine: Exactly, and we're going to talk about how to present it in terms of copy on a later episode too. Some tips, people just love the number 5 for some reason.
Kendra: Or 3.
Christine: 3 or 5 is the magic numbers because I don't know why. It just works really well. Or you could just say the number one thing. Stick between 1, 3, and 5. Don't go beyond that. Its just a magic number, make it juicy make it really interesting for them. You can get [inaudible 00:14:26] on how to write copy, and we'll talk about more on that soon.
Kendra: Soon, yeah. I think the other I just want to mention is it's really important to know who your audience is. For example, let's say if you were a health coach working with people who are brand new, their at the very start of their healing journey, they're just realizing now that maybe standard American diet isn't right. Maybe cereal for breakfast isn't good for me and maybe Diet Coke...
Christine: [inaudible 00:14:49] isn't fruit.
Kendra: Yeah, exactly. They're just learning, well then you need to kind of meet them where they're at. You can probably give them some really basic things that are going to seem really juicy to them. If your client is further along, and they're the type of person who's seen a lot of, they've worked with natural doctors, and they've tried a lot of things, they've done a lot of personal research and then you're just, "eat healthy, get sunshine." They're going to be like, "this sucks, I've seen this all before." You really need to know who you're talking to. If you're going to give them a really juicy piece of information you need to know where are they in their health journey, that's why its so important to determine who you're talking to. We did an episode on neish, it's one of our early episodes. I think it was maybe our first or second or third episode.
Christine: Yeah, I was up until 3 am, I'm pretty sure.
Kendra: Guys just scroll down to the bottom of the feed, and you can find that episode on neishing, its called to neish or not to neish.
Christine: To neish or not to neish or something like that.
Kendra: If you guys want more, cause that's really important. If you don't have a neish you're actually not going to know what to create for your lead magnet.
Christine: Exactly, it's going to be too vague. It's not going to stick, and you're going to get weird people wanting to work with you or not work with you.
Kendra: They're just going to fall off right?
Kendra: That would be number one, that it's too long, it's too much of a chore to consume. The experience you might be having is people are opting in for it, but then nothing's happening. Look at how long it is, look at how juicy it is. Look at the quality. Think of how it relates to your ideal client and where they are in their whole journey. Okay, so that's number one. Number two is, you're not pitching it enough. This is another thing I see a lot of coaches do. They make their lead magnet and then they tell people about it once.
Christine: I'm so guilty of this too. I forget that I have it. I'm guilty of a lot of things, I have to say. I have a free training that is 35 minutes, which is way too long. [inaudible 00:16:34] Anyway, we'll talk about that another time. It's very true that I'm absolutely certain that I'll get more people on my email list if I actually just mention it. It's just whenever you post, just a little tip, did you know I have a free training or to get more tips, try to relate it to your free lead magnet. Get more link is in my bio on Instagram, or a link is in my bio on Facebook, wherever you go just make it short and snappy and just add it. Did you know....
Kendra: Just let people know about it every time you're showing off on social media, or anywhere. Whether that's Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Pinterest. Every time you're giving away something of value it's okay to be like, "I have this free guide." Obviously the content you're giving should relate to it, for example if you're doing some sort of live video; what I always used to do is I would mention it at the beginning then go through my training and then this natural transition. Now that you know about x, y, and z you might be wondering about this, funny enough I have this free guide that will teach that. [crosstalk 00:17:37] you can get the link above the video or below this post or whatever.
Kendra: It's just a natural transition. People liked the content you were sharing and they want to dig a little bit deeper. Then you're doing them a disservice by not letting them know that, that exists.
Christine: Exactly. You also need it if you want to get more into [inaudible 00:17:56].
Christine: If you want to get more into PR, you want to write articles, if you have a guest post. People will usually allow you to offer your free gift, or your opt in to the people, to the crowd, to the listeners, the readers, so make sure you have one that's super juicy. Say, "look at the end of this I have this free training where I have an amazing checklist." Try to relate it to the topic, and actually if you want to go super pro, you can design it for the audience that you're talking too.
Kendra: Yeah, totally.
Christine: You can have a URL, you just copy your lead page and then do it from, for example sleeplikeaboss.com/fire would be my opt in just for Entrepreneur on Fire, because everyone who's on Entrepreneur on Fire has their website/fire. It's kind of known thing.
Christine: My opt in is bold, I'm not even sure if it works. [crosstalk 00:18:45]
Kendra: Yeah, you can actually set up a redirect. This is actually something you taught me Christine. I have a plug in for my WordPress called 301 redirect, where I can literally just create links. Kendraperry.net/whatever, and then redirect it to some other page. It's really easy. Like you said sleeplikeaboss/fire. I can remember that. I can remember that right now and type it into my phone. You don't want to be, kendraperry.net/10-20times50 you know and have this huge thing that people are never going to remember.
Kendra: I'll often do, I just created an Instagram bio cheat sheet. I have KendraPerry.net/IGbio. Easy. [crosstalk 00:19:26]
Christine: Things like that, and people feel flattered when they go then. Like, "hey fire starters." Or "hey it was lovely to have this interview with x,y,z on her podcast, I hope you enjoyed it." Then you have the thing there. You can even then ask for reviews afterwards and things like that. We'll talk about that later on at our later episodes where break all of this through. Just to say, there's lots of things you can do. You should have it, you should definitely customize it if you can. It's an important tool to have, and just shout about it anywhere. [crosstalk 00:19:58] have it in every thing you do.
Kendra: Yeah, and you guys [crosstalk 00:20:02]
Christine: Email signature is super good.
Kendra: That's actually a great place to put it. I can't remember who I learned that from, but I have it on my email signature and my assistant's. We've got your email, we're going to get back to you within 2 business days but in the mean time we have this for you that you can check out. I think that's fantastic.
Christine: I love that too.
Kendra: I had one more thing to say. You guys may have noticed that some people out there have multiple lead magnets, it's very tempting to do that, and that's something you can eventually get to but if you are new, just make one. Just keep it simple, make one, [crosstalk 00:20:37] make it super specific to your audience and what you're ultimately selling. Then in the future, like right now, I have tons of options depending on what I'm teaching. It's because I have a team. I'm not a solo-preneur, I'm not doing this by myself. I have other people who are doing other aspects of my business so that I can focus on this. In the beginning don't get carried away. Create that one awesome thing that's really going to help your ideal client.
Christine: Agreed, cause otherwise it's super confusing later. It's just not worth it. Just keep it simple. [crosstalk 00:21:09] Then once you have your team, let them still keep it super simple, but let them handle it.
Kendra: Yeah, exactly. Once you have a team you just have more time for content creation. Right? Because their running the admin side of your business. If you guys are interested in learning how to hire a team, we actually recently did a podcast episode on that too didn't we?
Christine: I don't know if it's published yet.
Kendra: It's released. I actually just saw it. I'm looking this up... anyways it's like two episodes, or a few episodes ago. Check that out. Anyways, that's number two, is you're just not pitching it enough. People don't know about it. The reason you're not getting people on your list is because they don't actually know it exists, that's number two. Then number three, this one is really, really important Christine. I see this all the time. Your lead magnet is actually disconnected from the product or service you're ultimately selling. An example of this would be that you help women reverse how she motos but your lead magnet is a healthy food challenge that has nothing to do with how she motos. Or, it's a smoothy recipe guide. There's no connection there. Right?
Christine: Exactly. It's just a step, but it's not really the secret weapon or how she motos. We all know that the lead magnet is not going to solve it, but it needs to be much more related to the thyroid than just as the movie.
Kendra: Totally. Exactly, and that means, with that example that you have people opting in to your freebie because their interested in smoothies but it doesn't mean they have how she motos or they have any interest in healing their thyroid. Their interested in smoothies, but it's confusing because you give them a smoothie recipe then suddenly you're, "sign up for a call with me to help your thyroid." People are, "what? I just wanted a smoothie what the hell is this?"
Christine: Exactly, doesn't make sense at all.
Kendra: It doesn't make sense. You really want there to be an obvious connection. Really, your lead magnet is what do they need to know first when they come into contact with your business. With the how she motos, maybe it's five things you do every day that are making your thyroid antibodies go off the charts or something like that.
Kendra: Their like, "oh, okay." Then they get in there and then they go through your email sequence. Which again we're going to talk about email sequences in a later episode. It's obvious because their like, "okay, how she motos, oh my god these things are making my antibodies go through the roof and I didn't even know, I do them every day." Then you take them on that educational journey and eventually you're, "hey, I have this program are you interested in learning how I can help you reverse or how she motos." It's really that natural next step right?
Christine: Exactly, and I think you also need to voice it with who you want to work with. Let's say for example if you have a product series with simple tips keep your lead magnet simple. If you have a more complex service make sure your lead magnet kind of talks to it, keep it still simple but make sure that it conveys what kind of service you have. For example for me I did have just a bedtime routine checklist, but in the end it's not what I do. Now my lead magnet which is a training, is more complex but it shows people what they don't know so that they need to hire me in order to actually learn more about this and to address this. It really depends on how you work too and make sure that, that is aligned because otherwise you just get tire kickers. One big thing I see that is happening a lot of the time is quizzes. I know that quizzes convert very well in step one, which means when you have a quiz a lot of people will sign up to take the quiz, but the people that unsubscribe is huge.
The step two conversion of it leading to sales is not happening. There's been research done from that, especially last year in 2017 because quizzes were so huge that a lot of people experimented with it who have huge audiences and use of [inaudible 00:25:04] money and they saw, yes its converts very well and people are signing up because their very curious but it's more of an entertainment factor, it's curiosity. It's not a commitment to actually work with you or to actually take the topic seriously at that.
Christine: I'm personally not a fan of quizzes. I think they're fun but I don't think that they will bring a crowd that is actually going to convert.
Kendra: I love that you bring that up Christine, because I actually had a quiz as an opt in probably in 2017. It was crazy, I was running Facebook adds to it, I was getting 50 cent conversion. It cost me 50 cents for each person that was coming on to my email list with Facebook adds, now that's like unheard of but back then that was still super good. I grew my email list super fast with that quiz, but these people did not buy. When I launched my product to them through a webinar it was a flop, three times in a row with this list. It was ridiculous, and I was just like, "ahhh, why?" I just paid all this money, people are opting in but, you're right, it's just a curiosity an entertainment. I take a lot of quizzes if I'm bored. I'm like, "oh shit, that looks cool, I'm just going to take that quiz." It doesn't actually mean that I care.
Christine: Exactly, and I think that's [crosstalk 00:26:20] a word of wisdom from us just stay away from them, don't do them. Just don't.
Kendra: I totally agree. I tried to do it a bunch of different ways. I tried to set it up different ways. Having an assessment and then, telling them what was wrong and then sending them into another sequence. Honestly it just didn't work.
Kendra: I agree, don't do quizzes. That's number [crosstalk 00:26:44] wait what were you going to say?
Christine: You're welcome all of you guys that are just like, [crosstalk 00:26:51]
Kendra: Guys, that's number three. I think this is a huge one that just your lead magnet is disconnected. Right? It should be a natural transition. If you're selling gluten free recipes your lead magnet for example shouldn't be anything else but gluten free recipes. Then number four guys, is your lading page sucks. [crosstalk 00:27:16]
Christine: I love bad landing pages though. It's a pet peeve of mine, and when I see a really bad landing page I just slag it off until there's nothing there. It's kind of a pet peeve, it's not really nice of me. I mean especially people who haven't updated their website in like three, four, five, six years.
Christine: It's hilarious. In the mean time, there's really no excuse to have a bad landing page because you literally get them out of the box. Some look still really ugly but with all the drag and drop kind of system it's kind of easy. To just break it down what your landing page should be like. There should be no unnecessary fa-rah. It's just about your free gift, that's it. Nothing else. Make sure you have a huge headline that is telling you exactly why this is super awesome. Maybe a subtitle, then already give them the opportunity to sign up. Don't make them scroll 500 years until they can give you their email address. If you look at the screen it's above the fold, which means you don't have to scroll for them to get your email address or to press the button where they can then have a box in order to have that email address. Then you can add some fluff after that. You can add a video after that, or you can add your testimonials after that. I don't know your media credibility markers or whatever you do. Make sure it's easy to read, it's a big font. Make sure please, I still don't get why people don't check to make sure it's mobile friendly.
Kendra: Yeah, that's a big one guys, you got to. I realize that you guys are health coaches and you're on your computers but no one else in this world is. Everyone is accessing the internet from mobile. It needs to be mobile friendly. Once you finish creating it. Open it. Go to it on your phone and look at it. If it looks like shit that could be a big reason why people aren't opting in. Right? I love that you say this because people have different buying behaviors online. There's the impulse people, who are just you see the add and you're like, "I'm in." That's me, that's how I am.
Christine: Me too, it's like...
Kendra: I buy things all the time and I'm like, "what the fuck did I just buy?" I don't even know what that was. I'm impulsive. For me, I don't want to scroll. I don't want to have to scroll, I just want to opt in and get the thing. There are people who are called fact finders. The fact finders they actually need to do their own research, they need to spend a bit more time. For them their going to see that opt in but you should give them the opportunity to scroll. They should be able to see what does this freebie contain. Who the hell are you, maybe in a bio, and then some testimonials if you have them. Right?
Kendra: That's going to allow them to maybe build a bit more trust and convince them a bit more. For those people who are impulsive you want to make sure like Christine said it's above the fold and they don't have to go anywhere they can just enter their email address and it's done.
Christine: Exactly, and if you have a longer lead page make sure that you add that opportunity at the beginning and also at the end.
Christine: Some people will be at the end, and they just don't want to scroll back up. Just make sure that they can do it there.
Kendra: Yeah, you can have another opt in at the end, or you can just have it set up so when you click the button it just takes you back to the top of the page, which is what I think I have. [crosstalk 00:30:34] The other thing I want to mention is how you know your lead page isn't working would be that nobody's opting in. It's probably somethings wrong with your landing page.
Kendra: Sometimes it just takes a small shift to get it to convert. When something's not working I think a lot of us just want to go in change everything. Change the headline, do a video instead of a photo, then if it starts converting you actually don't know what works. It's really important to just change one thing at a time.
Kendra: Change the color and see what happens, change the image see what happens. Change the wording in the headline and sit back because sometimes for me I've had landing pages that were getting super low conversion and I literally just changed the wording up a bit with the headline and suddenly it was at a 70% opt in rate.
Christine: Exactly, and there's tons of blog posts on this about people who have done insane amounts of research on this. It's just like the color of the button is super important. It shouldn't be red for example or shouldn't be too aggressive. The font is really important. There's all these studies on them. I obviously go against all of them because I make it rather pretty rather than [inaudible 00:31:44] which is again, something else to do but I think if it's in line with your brand, again, it's fine. Make sure you only tweak one little thing and have it run for at least one to two weeks. Give it some time for people to actually get there and to see. It's not that your lead magnet is necessarily bad because they arrive there because they were interested in it.
Christine: The idea is good it's literally just the page. [crosstalk 00:32:06]
Kendra: Something turned them off, whatever it was. You want to intrigue them. You don't just want to be like, "get my free awesome thing." You want that headline to really trigger them, it should really speak to that pinpoint. If we're going back to that how she motos example it maybe mentions something like isn't it frustrating when every time you go back to the dr your antibodies are through the roof or even higher. That's scary to people that's when, "Oh my god, yeah every time I go back those antibodies just keep getting higher it's really scary right? Speak to their emotions, have an emotional trigger in that headline.
Christine: Exactly. Super important. Another thing I wanted to mention is, don't ask for too much information. I think in the mean time nobody's doing this anymore but at the time you had first name, surname, phone number, email. Don't do this. First never ask for someones phone number. People are going to be super offended. Personally I find that even the name is a field too many. I am a huge fan of just entering the email address. The reason why name can be interesting is that you can afterwards use it in your newsletter. It would be the computer registers basically that, this is Christine. Then you can automate that it would be every [inaudible 00:33:20] it would say their first name. It would be, "hi, Christine." For example, when I sign up, not always with my first name, I might just use C. Sometimes I might just use test, or I might use stinky feet.
Kendra: I hate stinky feet.
Christine: Then it's like every newsletter you get from that person is like, "Hey, Stinky feet." Don't do it. When you have a business, and you send them newsletters. You don't know who did that. You don't know who filled in the crazy name. I personally don't do it, and it's another step that people don't... It's another hoop to jump through. Keep it simple and my advise would just be email. That's it.
Kendra: I do ask for the first name, it's funny because I probably do say, "hey, stinky feet." a million times to the people [crosstalk 00:34:04] I have actually found that my nurture sequence does better when I say their name a ton of times. I just keep saying their name, sometimes I'll say it five or six times in an email. For some reason people seem to love that, it works for me. You really got to figure out what works for you right? If someone puts stinky feet in there, and I'm like, "doesn't that feel terrible stinky feet?" [crosstalk 00:34:30] I'm definitely going to rethink this a little bit.
Christine: Especially because some people really think you're writing them.[crosstalk 00:34:38] You wrote this for me [inaudible 00:34:40]
Kendra: It is funny, some people don't realize that it's a mass email. Some people they'll just write back to you like you're talking to them. Do you not? But some people [crosstalk 00:34:53]
Christine: That's what we want in the end. But it's hilarious so just be mindful of that.
Christine: Then we have, oh, the legal stuff.
Christine: Exactly, and if you're in Europe it's a little bit more intense as well. If you have an email provider that's a little bit say they will have it done for you. For example for mail [inaudible 00:36:05] and that we use for the podcast it just tells you add a GDPR box and basically people just have to check those boxes, and it's fine. You're in agreement basically.
Christine: Yes, it's an additional step for them, but sometimes it's not too bad because there's a little commitment with that as well. [crosstalk 00:36:20]
Kendra: It's true.
Christine: Having said that we can also quickly mention that the difference between a one step opt in and a two step opt in sometimes you have to click and then you have a box opening. Then you have to type in your name, and sometimes you just have the field right on the landing page.
Christine: Statistically the people who click on the button and then have the opt in, have to type in, have two steps basically to do. Clicking button, typing, are better leads in the end because their more committed to do it.
Kendra: That's a good point. I know in Canada you have to have a double opt in, so it's the law that people subscribe, but then they get an email that says confirm your subscription. They have to click on that. It's true, yeah it's an extra step, some people may not click it but the people that don't actually go through that super simple step that takes all of five seconds. They're probably not that engaged anyways. That's something I know that's true in Canada, I don't know about the states and I'm sure it's true in Europe. [crosstalk 00:37:20] know where you live and what your laws are.
Christine: Exactly. For example, I have an insane amount of people on my list who are unconfirmed. Which means they sign up, but they never hit the confirmation button. I throw them out. I literally throw them out, because for me, it's okay you can't even be bothered to click that link your most likely never going to be a client.
Kendra: They've probably got shiny object syndrome, they're like, "oh that's cool." Then they sign in and then their like, "shiny object." Then they're gone.
Christine: Exactly. [crosstalk 00:37:52] I can see that when I look at my subscribers. If you're unconfirmed I'm just throwing you out.
Christine: Yeah. All right.
Kendra: Awesome, okay. That's number four, that's your landing page sucks, that's the fourth reason. Then this one I think is just in regards to content. It may be the reason why people don't want to give away their email address to you is because maybe you're just not giving them content. Maybe you're just coming at them with the pitch you're, "this is my lead magnet, this is my lead magnet." Those are your posts. You're not warming people up with the really good valuable content. You should follow me and Christine on social media, especially Instagram. I'm at KPerryNutrition, and Christine is sleeplikeaboss. We actually give away a lot of really valuable content on our feed on our stories, on IGTV. Seriously it's a gold mine. That's why people are very open to giving me their email address because I'm giving them value. People are very sensitive to being marketed to in whatever way shape or form it comes in. You just can't lead with that. It's okay to pitch your lead magnet but you better give them something good.
Christine: Exactly. The way I do it, I'm pretty soft on the sauce. I don't pitch my lead magnet that much. What I do regularly is I pitch my blog. You have every other day on my Instagram there will be content that is directly linked to my blog and it's the URL that's on my Instagram profile and when you go to my blog I actually have a pop up. I actually hate pop ups, but they also work.
Kendra: They work.
Christine: [inaudible 00:39:27] In terms of that, you get all of this free content. You come from a place where you already received content, you want to check out more. Then I'm a little in your face, like, "Hi." It's kind of a balance thing. Sometimes you have to be a little bit more.
Kendra: Totally, and I think for me, I do weekly YouTube videos. I really pitch my YouTube videos. My YouTube video gives away actual tips, sometimes I give tutorials, at the end of the video it says, "hey, now you know about this but maybe you're wondering about this." You can click below this video and get my freebie, and that works really well for me. I get a lot of my traffic from YouTube even with a small channel. I don't get crazy views on my videos but a lot of those people do end up opting in just because it is very connected. Right?
Kendra: It's like the video [crosstalk 00:40:14] has to do with the lead magnet that I ultimately pitched. I don't pay for adds right now and all my leads are coming to me through YouTube. It's like I'm pitching something of value and then eventually that leads to.
Christine: Agreed, I never pay for ads. It's weird, it's a different story.
Kendra: It is. [crosstalk 00:40:33] and we'll do something on paid ads, on paid traffic here at some point. I know a lot of you guys are wondering about Facebook ads, which have gotten a lot more competitive and a lot more expensive. There are actually other really great ways to advertise. I also think that initially when you're new, you really should be pumping organic traffic. Smart organic traffic because ads are expensive. You will get to a point in your business where you'll have the budget for ads and you'll want to scale and I think it makes sense to be running ads but in the beginning I think you really just got to get your organic and free content dialed down before you start going into ads.
Christine: Agreed. All right. I think that was a no brainer. Let's make a quick summary. Number one. We have five reasons your lead magnet sucks, so number one is that it's too much, too difficult, too long. Number two, nobody knows about it because you don't talk about it. Number three is it has nothing to do with how you serve people or what you sell. Number four is your landing page is just bad. Redo it. Number five is that it's not good enough content. It's just fluff and nothing of value.
Kendra: Yeah, people just don't want to. THey're like "this person sucks. I'm out."
Kendra: Bye. [inaudible 00:41:49] Awesome. It was super fun hanging out with you as always Christine. We have so much fun, and I think we're funny. I hope [crosstalk 00:41:55]
Christine: I think we're hilarious. Seriously, I'm wondering if people want to see a case study because I'm thinking of redoing my training soon and just [crosstalk 00:42:03] see us do a case study. Set all this stuff up, let us know and we might make a workshop on that. That you could then get on our website.
Christine: Let us know if that's something that you're interested in. We'd love to know.
Kendra: Or you can just email us hello at 360HealthBiz.podcast or just shoot us a DM on Instagram 360HealthBiz is our handle. Because we love Instagram, we think that it is the social media platform with the most opportunity, if you guys are listening to this on your smart phone right now just screenshot it, share it to your stories, mention 360 Health Biz podcast and we will share it to our stories and just let us know in that story what was your biggest take home, because that just really helps us know that you actually are getting something out of our content.
Christine: Exactly. We love you loads, please love us back.
Kendra: Yep, love goes both ways.
Christine: Exactly. We'll talk to you in a couple of weeks.
Kendra: Yeah, well in one week.
Christine: In a week already...
Kendra: A week, yeah. We now release episodes every week.
Christine: See, I'm so... [crosstalk 00:43:02]
Kendra: Christine doesn't even know
Christine: God, I'm a nightmare. Yes, I'll talk to you next week.
What on Earth is SEO, why do we need it, and how can it help us get more money? Our guest today is Stephanie Fiteni, a traffic growth specialist and helps clients get leads and book discovery calls in their sleep. Um yes please! In this episode of the 360 Health Biz Podcast, Stephanie shares her knowledge on SEO and we dive into search engine optimization for health coaches, particularly looking at SEO for blog posts, SEO tips for website, SEO practices, local SEO and how to use keywords to grow your health coaching business.
SEO stands for Search Engine Optimization, which basically means it is how you are ranked in Google so people can find you. Ultimately it’s making little tweaks to our website and our copywriting to ensure we have keywords that people are searching for. SEO also includes social media!
Here is what we nerd out on in this episode:
- what is SEO and how to use it
- what is a sales funnel
- what are keywords and where do we put them
- local SEO vs SEO (there’s a difference!)
- SEO for social media
- YouTube as a search engine
- content auditing
We have many mind blowing moments in this episode so grab a pen to take notes for all the ah-ha moments you’re about to have!
Stephanie is a content marketing strategist and blog coach. She helps Coaches, Consultants and B2B companies up-level their blogs and websites so they can grow their business with less effort. She turns her clients’ traffic-less blogs into lead-generation engines by helping them plan their content, research their keywords and create content and funnels that will rank and convert. She is a traffic growth specialist and helps clients get leads and book discovery calls in their sleep. Stephanie coaches clients on a 1:1 basis, sells online courses and can be booked to design strategies or speak/train live.
Get Stephanie's FREEBIE of 10 Steps to More Leads: https://www.subscribepage.com/Freebie-10-Steps-to-More-Leads
Ubersuggest – https://neilpatel.com/ubersuggest/
SEO Powersuite - https://www.seopowersuite.com/
Mongoose - https://www.marketmongoose.com/
WordPress plugin: Nelio - https://wordpress.org/plugins/nelio-content/
Yoast - https://yoast.com/
Say hi on social:
Kendra Perry Instagram: www.instagram.com/kendraperryinc
Christine Hansen Instagram: www.instagram.com/sleeplikeaboss_
Connect with Stephanie:
Christine: Hello everyone, and welcome to this new episode of the 360 Health Biz podcast where we are today with me, myself and I, Christine Hansen and my absolutely stunning, beautiful, funny and adorable co-hostess with the mostess, Kendra Perry. And-
Christine: Yes. [inaudible 00:00:21] So, we are super excited about this episode today. It's going to blow your mind as we have in the past, and we have proof, people. So, we have proof, which we're going to brag about in a second, and we have a lovely person who left us a review that Kendra's going to read to us. And if you want a shout-out just like they do right now then please head over to iTunes and leave us a five star review with lots of love. We totally appreciate it. So, listen to what this gorgeous, glamorous person had to say.
Kendra: Yeah, so we have a really awesome review from One-butterfly-one. I think it might be a she but it could be a he, so they say, "Kendra and Christine are incredible." Thank you.
Kendra: "The podcast more and more, it's not only fun, but it provides actionable advice tools, tips that actually work, and I've been seeing amazing results by listening to these cool gals and having a laugh along with them as I learn ways to keep moving the needle forward in my business. Thank you ladies, you rock." Well, we think you rock, One-butterfly-one.
Christine: Yeah. That's amazing-
Kendra: You are.
Christine: ... That is such a good review. I think we're super happy. Honestly it makes us feel like, "Okay, I think we're doing good." Right?
Kendra: I think so. Kind of rubs our egos in the right way. So we dig it. Thank you.
Christine: Totally, because our egos are so tiny, you know? But seriously, you rock. Thank you so much, we appreciate it so, so, so much. So please don't think that we are fine if you don't leave us a review. We are not, and we really do want one. So please head over to iTunes and do that over there.
Christine: Now, today we are tackling a subject that Kendra and I are still kind of baffled about, I would say. That both of us, I'm absolutely certain have tried at one point or another to get into it, and I think both of us probably dropped it as well.
Kendra: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Christine: So today we have someone who is going to be able to explain it to us in a way that we understand, because I think one of the reasons why we dropped it is that it's very often explained in a very tech, dry, my math teacher is not very fascinating kind of way. So, today we have Stephanie Fiteni with us, and Stephanie is a content marketing strategist and blog coach. So listen carefully, you should all have a blog by the way. She helps coaches consultants and B to B companies up-level their blogs and websites so they can grow their business with less effort, and who doesn't want to do that?
Kendra: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Christine: She turns her clients' traffic-less blogs, sad, sad, into lead generation engines by helping them plan their content, research their keywords and create content and funnels that will rank and convert, sexy, sexy. She is a traffic growth specialist and helps clients get leads and book discovery calls in their sleep. Oh, Stephanie, how I do love that sentence. Stephanie coaches clients on a one-on-one basis, so that's online courses, and she can be booked to design strategies or speak and train live. So I am super, super excited to have you here, and we are going to get right into it, I guess. So, welcome Stephanie.
Stephanie: Wow, thank you for a lovely introduction. Wow.
Christine: Well, you wrote it!
Stephanie: I'm really happy to be here.
Christine: So, we are here because both of us we are really happy to have you, because both of us have had this word SEO come up and I was super embarrassed because I forgot what it meant. But it is Search Engine Optimization everyone. I do remember. But it's this thing that I think everyone has come across as an entrepreneur, and it's like next to your finances probably one of the things that you really just want to ignore. But I do think it can be a game changer in your business. So can you, first of all, just tell us what on Earth is SEO, why do we need it, and how can it help us get more money, which we love?
Stephanie: Right. So, SEO, I'm happy you said it correctly because actually a lot of people the first time call it CEO.
Christine: [inaudible 00:04:36] only me.
Stephanie: Yes, I have a lot of clients that keep that. They just can't drop the CEO. It doesn't matter what you call it, SEO is ultimately those little tweaks we do to our websites, to the copy on our sites, and to everything that we do. It also includes social media, by the way. Everything we do, needs to be optimized for the keywords so that people know, Google knows more than anything, what we're about.
Stephanie: So in reality, Search Engine Optimization is about organizing your website, and optimizing your content. Now when I say optimizing, okay, what that means is simply putting your keywords in the right place. We can talk more in depth about that in just a minute.
Christine: But how does it make you money?
Stephanie: Okay, so first of all it makes you money by saving you time. So what I like to do is, maybe my approach is a little bit different to other SEO people because they tend to only focus on the traffic. What I like to do is, I like to help people refocus and make the most of their content.
Stephanie: So we're going to create a blog post and the aim of that, is that it ranks in the first place in search in engines I would also reformat that blog post to use it in the short-term, to generate leads as well. And of course it would also generate leads on our website by having a funnel. Now I don't know if you've talked about funnels before in your podcast?
Christine: We kind of have, but we haven't had an episode on it. Kendra, we need to get on that.
Kendra: Yeah I think that would be a good episode to talk about. I think the word funnel, in general, when I started, I didn't even know what funnel meant. I was like, what do you mean a funnel? Like something you put milk through, to get it into a different glass? Like what is that?
Christine: Yes Kendra, that's it!
Stephanie: Well that's the shape, that's the basic shape. If you Google it, yeah, that's what you'll find.
Stephanie: Well let's explain what a funnel is. So in order to build your business, especially if you're an online business, but not just if you're an online business, even if you're a coach that works face to face, keeping in touch with people through your email list of importance, so what the funnel does is basically you have these tools on your website, that grow your email list. So you would attract them to your website with a blog post and then you would offer them something to entice them to jump on your list.
Stephanie: Now, it can be a simple you know, join our list to receive more content like this. You know that's the simplest kind of one you can have. Maybe a more complex funnel would be, you have a freebie, or a PDF that gives for value about the same topic that you've just been reading about, and then they go on your list, and because you know what they've downloaded, you know exactly what they're interested in. So then you can follow that up. There are some pretty smart tools out there that can just send a series of emails automatically, once somebody's on your list.
Stephanie: And I think for coaches, one of the most important things, is that you don't actually need to wait weeks or months, before you ask people to jump on a call with you. You can actually do it in the first three or four emails and very often there will be a percentage of people that are interested in talking to you. So you've made money.
Christine: Exactly, and just as an example, my funnel is one email. That's it, because I'm super lazy. I literally, I don't have anything specific. I have one opt in and one email that says, hello and then book a call, and that's it.
Stephanie: [crosstalk 00:08:46] be enough and then it's just a matter of getting more eyeballs on that website.
Christine: So tell me a little, so you said keywords. There's two things that I'm interested in, so keywords, what the hell are keywords? How many do I need to use, and I know that I have these used SEO thing, and it has me to use different keywords, and I'm like well, I'm about sleep, can I use sleep every time? Is that a mistake? What the hell am I supposed to use, and then you said social media, and I'm like, wait, how? So tell me more.
Stephanie: Okay, so first of all, those keywords we said, I think about 30% of my clients are actually from the health industry. Health coaches to be precise. There's a very good reason for that because keywords are really tough, in the health and wellness industry.
Stephanie: I would say, they're not difficult to [inaudible 00:09:45], they're difficult to find.
Stephanie: Because let's say you cure migraines. So let's say I've got a migraine, and I go onto Google, and I'm going to type in "best migraine medication". So If I'm looking for best migraine medication, and I obviously have a migraine, so I am the target audience right? Now, what tends to happen is that, a lot of wellness coaches would cure migraine, but not my medication. So let's say, some people do it with meditation even, some people do it with alternative, natural therapies. So, what you need to do with SEO in that case, you need to catch the traffic that is looking for the most basic, fastest solution to a problem, because you know the doctors already, and then educate them into buying what you're selling.
Stephanie: And I think that's kind of the keyword to wellness coaches. The problem is, you tend to optimize for the outcome or for what you're selling.
Christine: Hang on, I think I have a light bulb moment!
Stephanie: So for me, like sleeping pills, although that is what I don't advocate, would for example, be a great keyword because people are looking for that.
Kendra: Oh my gosh! I'm having a light bulb moment too!
Christine: That's just like wrong! Seriously, I think we did it all wrong, like most of it.
Kendra: That's my favorite type of content, I call it Trojan horse content because what you're doing is like you're attracting, but of course, it's not going to [inaudible 00:11:40] very highly, but you already know that they're looking for a solution now. All you're doing is educating them, and what tends to happen is online, when you search something like that, you're going to find these chemical companies, that are advertising, or they put the [inaudible 00:12:00] on line. A lot of the time, the person looking, wants something more than that, it's like they're looking for a solution. And they'd be probably happy to buy if there was a resolved problem now, but if it's a recurring problem, and a lot of wellness problems are, then you have the time to educate them. Why pills may not be the best solution for your migraine.
Kendra: When you're doing the research for keywords, does it matter about competition, because what I've learned about SEO, I've learned a lot about certain keywords like so many people are using them. There's like two million searches for them. So someone, who's like you know small me, like me, I might not actually rank in that.
Christine: You're not small me baby!
Stephanie: There's a couple of things to say about that. If the competition is high and there's large volume, chances are people are already banking in on it, and which means they have a lot of money coming in, and they have a lot of money to spend on SEO, which means it's not likely you'll manage to rank for it in the short-term. It doesn't mean you won't manage, but you certainly can't do it fast.
Stephanie: So what you would need to begin with, is actually finding out a number of keywords for yourself. I like to start with the low competition ones, that have good traffic, but you can get the low hanging fruits, with keywords, like we just mentioned the ones where you know that that person Googling it, [inaudible 00:13:41], has a really big [crosstalk 00:13:52].
Kendra: And is there a tool that can [inaudible 00:13:53], help you for like-
Stephanie: Yes there are many, many, many keyword tools. I can recommend a few. It depends on how techy you are and whether you have a budget for it.
Christine: Let's use super cheap and not techy at all.
Stephanie: Well, there is one called Ubersuggest, but the problem with keyword tools is that they're very slow. This one is particularly slow, but it's free.
Kendra: And what's it called again, sorry?
Stephanie: It's called Ubersuggest, it's [crosstalk 00:14:30]. Yes I can give you the link and we can put it on.
Kendra: That would be awesome.
Stephanie: Spelt like Uber, you know the taxi? And suggest.
Kendra: Very cool.
Stephanie: But I prefer to use, there's a couple of other tools. There's the SEO PowerSuite, so you've been doing SEO for a while and you want to go deeper, you can go try that. It's like the cheapest entry level Pro Software. Especially if you also work offline, and you can work really well with local SEO, you can use a tool called Mongoose. I'm just going to look at it quickly actually because I need to double check the name. It's called Mongoose. The company that makes it, is called Mongoose and there's all these different tools. This is the keyword tool.
Stephanie: Unfortunately it's not free, it's about $40 a month. I can forward you the link to the exact tool because there are a few.
Kendra: Yeah, we'll add all these into the show notes, for all you listeners out there.
Stephanie: But basically what you want is, you want to see three things, in your keyword results when you search keywords. You want to see more suggestions because it's like really important that you keep growing your keyword list. You want to see the competition and you also what to see the Pay-Per-Click price.
Kendra: Oh okay.
Stephanie: And this is something a lot of people use to create online ads. So you know they want to advertise in Google, it will tell me how much it's going to cost me to advertise for that keyword. But for organic search, that gives you a very good idea of how much money that keyword is making. And of course, you're not going to pay for it because you're going organic. So if you actually choose the keywords that have a high Pay-Per-Click value, they will tend to turn to clients more easily.
Christine: Oh really?
Kendra: So a high Pay-Per-Click value is better than a low Pay-Per-Click value. I feel like I had that totally flipped.
Christine: Me too completely. I was just going to say, oh okay so you want to get the cheaper ones because those are the ones that nobody wants and those are easy [crosstalk 00:16:50]
Stephanie: And that's true if what you're planning to spend on ads, that makes such good sense but since you're going organic, you don't.
Kendra: Okay, got it.
Christine: There was another interesting thing that you said, and that was local, like local SEO. So we do have people, who have a practice. So how is their SEO different from you know people I can [inaudible 00:17:17] for example, who only work in the online space or mainly?
Stephanie: It's easier, much easier. Google is really on your side when it comes to that. So you can get yourself a Google business page, and in your Google business page, you can put everything. So you put your location on the map, you can put all your keywords and you know you can list all your services, your opening hours. If you have different locations, [inaudible 00:17:48] different locations too. And once you've done that, what Google will do is, they will actually, I actually have one, but I can't spot it right now. They will send you an envelope, with a nice Google logo on it.
Christine: I have received that.
Stephanie: That's right, you just put your pin in to confirm that the address is yours, and then from then on, you will appear in searches on the side, as a suggestion, especially when people are searching for something similar to what you do, within your catchment area. It's really good for walk-in traffic.
Christine: So I have another question. You said you put your keywords in, how do I do that? Do I imagine just like typing in a list of these words that I found out? So let's say I were to only have an office here, so if I was I, I'd go into that search engine, I'd type in 'sleep', and check what comes up, and then I'd have a list and then I'd say I want these keywords that say how many? 20, 10, 5, hundred? I don't know, what would be-? And then do I just copy paste those and I'd put them in there or do I have to write a text and weave them in? How do I do that?
Stephanie: Okay, so there's no limit to how many keywords you can use, but you should use one keyword for each piece of content.
Stephanie: We don't [inaudible 00:19:13], that's one of my pet feeds you know. A lot of people out there are saying they still show notes, and no they don't because SEO is something you need to stay in the loop with. Like there were 3000 algorithm updates only in the last 18 months. And whenever there's an algorithm update, I go out there and I test, and I see how we can use it to get better rankings or faster rankings.
Christine: You're so smart! I'm like-
Stephanie: This is the best [inaudible 00:19:54]. There are people who have maybe done an SEO course one or two years ago and they just stick to what they learned then. That's very frustrating for somebody like me because I look at the show notes, and I'm like, stop telling me they're SEO, because they're not. But anyway. So you don't a limited amount of keywords, it depends on how much content. Well let's see if you're producing content once a week, you're going to need 52 keywords for a year.
Stephanie: But that's how it works, one keyword for each content. Now it does have to, you know not have, to have two or three categories that you can collect them in to. So you know, decide what three topics you want to optimize your website for, both have to be connected and relevant because we don't want to confuse people or Google because they tend to kind of read the stuff more in a similar way, as time goes by. So in reality, you build your site for people, you should be okay with Google.
Stephanie: You need to have these three categories and your keywords need to be collected in these three buckets, and then, this is where it gets interesting, then at this stage, when you have these three categories, you can choose your keywords [inaudible 00:21:21] category. It can be one of these really highly competitive keywords that have a lot of traffic.
Stephanie: Over time, you will manage to rank for that, but that is sort of based on the keyword cluster or the content cluster you're going to create for that particular keyword over time. So it's about sort of [intralinking 00:21:43] and you know, and all of that.
Christine: Okay, so I still don't ... I'm still confused, less but I have this keyword, where do I put it? Does that just mean I use it once in the text? Do I have to go in the back end of my blog and put it into, I don't know, a hashtag, what do I do with the word? Is it enough to just put that in there?
Stephanie: The first thing you need to do, has just been actually proven recently. [inaudible 00:22:20] kind of, he ran a survey, with all the SEO people, who work professionally in SEO, and he basically asked them the questions about what Google says works.
Stephanie: Verify what SEO people are actually seeing that works. And the one thing that you will hear contradictions about what has been proven to definitely be true, is that you need your keyword in the title.
Christine: Okay, good.
Stephanie: That's definitely step number one. I get it's a little bit difficult to explain without actually showing you because it's a science in reality, but I'll break it down to just give you a few pointers. So you definitely need is in your first paragraph.
Stephanie: So definitely needs to go in the beginning of your article and it does have, if you have subtitles. You know if you have five steps to make something happen, or sometimes you can even have a story and sort of draw out subtitles.
Christine: Right. And it would-
Christine: And it would be enough to just go into your blog and use that funk, like kind of highlight it and create it as a subtitle. It would recognize that right?
Stephanie: Yes, now if you have subtitles, it's good to have three or four because your keyword shouldn't go in all of them because let's say, Google can kind of break down language naturally and if I'm talking to you about something, I would maybe start off, let's say by talking about, I don't know, migraine medication. I might call it migraine medication the first time, second time, but the as we go along the conversation, I'm probably going to start using other words like, drugs or [inaudible 00:24:16] or I might use the word headache instead of migraine, even though they're not the same thing.
Stephanie: We naturally start mixing it in, so as you go further down the article, you use less of the same keyword, and more kind of synonyms.
Christine: Wait! My mind is blown. I love this so much, it geeks me out like ... [inaudible 00:24:38], it turns me on, I love it, it's okay but I think I had a [inaudible 00:24:44] once, that did it for me, that kind of told me [inaudible 00:24:48] and now and then, I don't remember when it was, I have so much stuff, but yeah, it makes total sense. It really makes sense.
Stephanie: There are tools out there that really do tell you that as you log on, tell you you don't have enough keywords, you have too much and stuff like that, but from my experience it takes you really long to finish [inaudible 00:25:07].
Kendra: I feel like with Yoast, you're trying to get the green smiley face. I only ever get like the orange, flat line mouth, where it's like mm. It's okay, but it's not good and I'm like, I don't know how to get that smiley face.
Stephanie: Indeed, indeed, perhaps that's why it's good to know what works, so I'll tell you what I do.
Stephanie: I of course, I also have an agency with my husband, so I've been taking care of the content team there, and I don't participate so much in the execution of the work, but I still participate in the strategy, I mean the evaluation. So it does have me sort of keep my finger on the pulse as to what's working and what isn't. And it's good to keep track of what works, and sort of use it as a step by step sort of guideline or a [inaudible 00:26:09].
Stephanie: So because these things change over time, we have internal guidelines in the agency, and which I also share of course, with my clients. But I update them more or less every two to three months, so there isn't a formula that's always going to work.
Christine: Yeah agreed, and I just found my software, and it's called, it used to be called Webtext, but it's called TextMetrics, and it would just basically tell you, okay enter highlight here, enter header here, and you would give it the first keyword, and it would give you synonyms and things like that, and it would tell you how to optimize it. It would take a little bit more time, but I'm just actually realizing that page scores is like 94 and stuff. That one of my most popular blogs ever, I actually did with this thing. So I probably should have stuck with it. Oops but well, I use my text now, like it's basically the transcript of what I do and video so we probably have to tweak it a bit, but I am super fascinated.
Kendra: I have a quick question, so in regards to our podcast show notes, because we were briefly talking about show notes there, we just take the transcript for our episode and upload it into the blog post. Is that good or is that bad or should we actually have our podcast manager summarize the episode and just do the main points? What do you think would be better from an SEO perspective?
Stephanie: What I recommend is to actually do both. So it's good to have your transcript page, with your podcast in it, and the reason is that, voice searches on the rise, and in fact you have your podcast, and you have your subtext and what's happening is that Google has in the last I believe, I think it's been around for about not even six weeks. So what I've started doing is, Google actually goes in the podcast and transcribes it and puts it in the searchable code of your website, so Alexa and Google Home can find it.
Stephanie: But the two [inaudible 00:28:31] automatic one, is really bad so far compared to transcription tools like Rev.com and if the transcription's still quite bad, what does one improve?
Stephanie: So it does help to have your own transcription, because Google is going to start using that more and more now, but only to serve your audio.
Kendra: Okay, right.
Stephanie: So if you're trying to rank, in order to grow your list, and to serve your freebie and to get them into your super fast funnel, [crosstalk 00:29:03]. So make a good freebie, [inaudible 00:29:08].
Christine: It was a great freebie, on our podcast homepage, right, 360healthbizpodcast.com, there's an awesome freebie on there. And our followers, one email.
Kendra: One email.
Stephanie: See what I mean? That's all you need. All you need to do is ask.
Stephanie: Great, what you can do then is, you can get your transcription and turn it into an interesting blog post and that gives you, you know, just gets the ... And probably add more information. See this is something I do with my lives. So, I do lives and of course people like to absorb things on video, but they also read, and we think people don't read, but when you see people walking down the street like this, they're reading, they're not watching video and walking. It's a very likely [inaudible 00:30:02].
Stephanie: People do read, so what we need to do is make sure that they stay on the page. So to have something that either a specialist or something somebody said on the podcast, and then always add more information. I always do this. There'll always be something that I can't expand on, like for instance, we talked about tools today.
Stephanie: We talked about ones that, I don't know, if you broke that down-
Kendra: I know I keep bringing that up.
Christine: She's not letting go.
Stephanie: I do have a one step for her though, it's a little more complex than that, but if you actually put more information there, and people have a reason to go to your website, then you have the opportunity to serve them your freebie or to get them to jump on your newsletter. So it's one of those things and if people just watch the podcast and they're just happy to just do that, it's fine. If they want to take it further and go deeper, then you take them to a different page.
Christine: Sorry, I needed to sneeze. Now that is a very good point, that's a super great point actually. So one more question that I have is, for me was, SEO was mainly on a blog and then you can add hashtags. I know that Tamara, bless her, I love her so much, she just looks at what I've been talking about and then she includes often the same hashtags and then some that are related. She makes them up to what I was just talking about. Is that worth it? Should you just add one hashtag then? Is it working at all?
Stephanie: Well, first of all on blogs, we call them tags, not hashtags.
Stephanie: I'm just making sure we're talking about the same thing.
Stephanie: Because if you use the hashtag then you put it on social media, but on the website, you just put a normal tag because if you put the hash in front, and some people do that, then it's not a word, kind of thing.
Christine: Interesting. Got to check. Okay.
Stephanie: I'm pretty sure if you just put [inaudible 00:32:27] normally so, it's just this tag, and you put it in and the words just does whatever it does with the tags. It does help to have one or sometimes two, but I'll tell you a very good place to store them actually. The best place to store it is on Google itself. So you know if you go in to Google and you type, I don't know, can't sleep,
Christine: For example.
Stephanie: That's right, you're going to find a lot of, you get your ads on the top and you get your results, and at the very bottom, you scroll down, you'll see that it gives you related searches. And those are the topics that Google has already connected you to that particular keyword. So if we give Google that connection, it's going to find it easier to understand that you're, you're [inaudible 00:33:20], if so you could call it.
Kendra: Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, so I'm looking at this right now on Google and so I'm seeing it right at the bottom, searches related to can't sleep. And then it has, I'm tired but I can't sleep, things to do when you can't sleep, can't sleep anxiety, can't sleep thinking too much. And then it actually tells me, and it's probably because I have some plugin on here, but it tells me the cost per click.
Christine: Oh it does!
Kendra: Yeah, I think I have keywords everywhere on here, maybe, but it tells me the cost per click, and I'm looking at how to sleep fast in five minutes and that's 29000 per month. So that's if I'm doing organic traffic, maybe I should use that as a keyword? Is that kind of, am I thinking about this properly? This is amazing.
Stephanie: It sounds like a good keyword. You also need to check your competition.
Kendra: Right. How do I do that?
Stephanie: Using the keyword tools.
Kendra: Okay. And I don't want too much competition, so I want to hide price tag but I don't want to have too much competition, ideally.
Stephanie: What you want to do [inaudible 00:34:23] hide price tag, it doesn't mean [inaudible 00:34:30] keyword, but starting with [inaudible 00:34:35] helps because what happens is, remember we spoke about the categories that we have. We have one keyword at the top, which is high competition and high return probably. What we do is and you have your keywords within that cluster, in that category, that ideally are low competition. And what we want to do is, we want to rank those because they will push the rank for the whole keyword cluster and help you add the top keyword in the long-term.
Christine: Got it. Yeah, so you have this little army of low ranking keywords, pushing your high ranking keywords amongst the competitors who through a lot of money at it, right? And you come from the underground, as a renegade thing, I like that. I can live with that. I can work with that.
Kendra: I have another question too, so I'm looking at these searches related to can't sleep, and there's one that says, what to do when you can't sleep and are bored, and it says zero per month, and then zero dollars. So when it says zero, does that mean that people aren't actually searching for that or should I ignore that, or is that good?
Stephanie: If it says zero, it depends obviously if your tool is referring to the price, because it could be just, if it's a greater price, then it might still be a good keyword, if it has traffic and low competition. It [inaudible 00:36:01] necessarily have Pay-Per-Click, because if it doesn't have Pay-Per-Click, all it means is that, there isn't a product or service that it very closely connected to it.
Stephanie: But it doesn't mean there's no interest. So you know you could get a lot of traffic that jumps on your list from that, even though maybe they're not ready to buy a product. A lot of these keywords are actually selling products that you can just click and buy.
Kendra: Right, interesting.
Christine: I didn't know which video to do today, I'm going to do the video about what to do when you can't sleep and you're bored. [inaudible 00:36:36] figure out if this is going to bring in gazillions of billions.
Kendra: Well, it's a good topic, because when I can't sleep, I'm pretty fucking bored.
Christine: Exactly, and you also find that for a lot of people, it's physical and in that case, I could actually make something smart out of it.
Stephanie: That's a good idea. That's really how I became programmer, through insomnia. I got like my first non dial-up connection, and there were other people awake on the other side of the planet, and I was like yay!
Christine: No Stephanie, that's not how you're supposed to do it.
Stephanie: This was like two decades ago.
Christine: So we've got the blog covered. I understand. I understand how to structure it. I know what keywords to prepare for for next year. Got it, I'm ready. Now you also said that you can use it for social media. So, Kendra and I and people who've been listening hopefully to our first or second episode, have the same structure of where we use one piece of content and then, similar to you, what you do, we do a live, we'll video and then we do a transcript that we form into a blog post and we use it on podcast, audio, we use it on our Instagram, we use snippets for Facebook, for Twitter and so forth and Pinterest, so those are, we basically go out and use YouTube and use all our social media platforms with this piece of content. So how do I do what we've just discussed for the blog, for other social media platforms? It seems obvious to me that for something like Twitter, I literally use the hashtag, how would I implement this for YouTube or Instagram or Facebook? Is it the hashtag thing or is it just embedded in the content?
Stephanie: So, probably the most important one would be YouTube. Now, with YouTube there's actually a lot of SEO experts will tell you to [inaudible 00:38:50] your work in the very beginning. Because YouTube is great because when you change something, you can see instant changes. So if you want to test a keyword or see how a video is ranking, you know Google kind of copies the internet and indexes it and you know it's not live, it takes a long time to work through the date, but YouTube is live. So you can see the changes really quick.
Christine: Very cool.
Stephanie: On the other hand, I have also heard, I'm not a YouTube expert but, I do follow a lot of SEO people so, I hear a lot about YouTube. And after you publish a video and you change the title, apparently YouTube does not change it in its database, so you have to make sure you publish it with the right title, right away.
Stephanie: So that's definitely something I would, I've been cautioned to do.
Christine: Don't fuck up the title. Got it!
Stephanie: No, keywords, you know so you'll see a lot, including on my channel where you have the keyword, like you know, I don't know, blog traffic and then how do I grow my traffic? So that's because the keyword works better in the beginning and you can't always make sensible sentence out of it.
Christine: I love that! That's hilarious, you just take your keywords, dinner and then a subtitle. Yeah. Works.
Kendra: I love it and I love YouTube. YouTube has actually worked really well for my business. I realized the power of it when this one video, that had really low production value, but the content is good, got over, I think I have almost 40000 views on it and like, pretty much when I was doing primarily health coaching, all my clients came to me through that one video. And I was just like, okay there's something to this. And that video is three years old and people are still contacting me for it, even though I don't really work in that space anymore, so I think it can work really well for you, but yeah, I think it's a really good point that YouTube is also a search engine, and I like that it works so quickly and I didn't realize that Google took so much longer but yeah, with YouTube, if you can get a video working for you, it can bring people into your business for years.
Christine: Great! And it's random, like last time someone found me because I did a review in partnership with Timeshifter on their app for Jet Lag with the Summit 2 watch from Montblanc, and he was like, I was looking for reviews, and I found this YouTube Video, and I was like, this lady has a lot of time, and then I found an article, and I was like, I know this lady! And it was basically my blog post, and he was like, what is this lady actually doing? And he wrote me an email, to tell me how cool he found my website and all of that kind of stuff. It's just so cute, and it's just to show you have YouTube, all of these things are working together, It's mind boggling to me.
Christine: So don't fuck up the headline. What else can you do?
Stephanie: Well you need to leave quite a long description ideally and in YouTube, a long description using your keywords again, optimize it, pepper it. And also, try not to make it a direct transcript of the video.
Christine: Got it.
Stephanie: I see lots of people do that and I don't think it ... it doesn't come across as what a description should be.
Christine: Got it, yeah.
Stephanie: And another thing that really helps is playlists. So you can add your reviews to playlists, to your own, and you can also have playlists where you have your own reviews and other people's. So if you want to appear next to Jodie Spencer's videos, then you might create a [crosstalk 00:42:28], a playlist with his keywords. Now it's not necessarily going to happen quick because in order to be the featured video, it does help to sort of hint with playlists, as to what kind of content you want to be served for but in order to be served as a featured video or a suggested video, you need to have that kind of, like you mentioned Kendra, you know your video was doing really well, and when they see that it's kind of doing really well in the beginning, then they kind of help it, because it starts being suggested and featured, so it keeps ranking.
Stephanie: I also find that I've got like, I don't really use YouTube much, I use it mostly to share videos with clients and sort of thing, but I have one video that ranks in Google, and it's got thousands of views. And people do get in touch with me although, again, it's about a tool that coaches use, which is Zoom, but it's not specifically about what I do.
Stephanie: It can be very powerful.
Kendra: Yeah, agreed. So I want to ask if you think this is a good strategy, because this is what I do with my YouTube videos, I usually pick like 10 tags. I use an app, or a plugin called TubeBuddy, which helps me search and determine, which are like, it gives a word a weighting. Like I'll type in like fatigue for women, or something like that, and it will tell me, fair, good, like is that a good option for keyword, so I'll do like 10 tags and then what I'll do is I'll just create a description, using each tag.
Kendra: So my description sounds really robotic, because I'm just using the tags, but I get every single tag in the description, and I feel like nobody really reads it anyways. Do you think that's a good strategy?
Stephanie: It sounds like a good strategy. I can understand, it sounds a little bit humorous, but yes, there are a lot of tools out there. There's keyword research tools that you can use specifically for YouTube.
Stephanie: Sounds like a good one. Yes, you can definitely use more than one tag in YouTube, so you don't have the one keyword rule in YouTube.
Kendra: Okay, got it.
Christine: I'm going to go and read Kendra's descriptions now, just to [crosstalk 00:44:59]. I still read descriptions actually. I'm one of the weirdos who watches the YouTube videos and then clicks, first of all to see when the date was, and then I'm reading the description. I'm such a weirdo.
Kendra: That's amazing.
Christine: Okay so we have blog post and then our best friend, Google. We have YouTube. We discussed show notes for podcasts. Well, Twitter I guess a little bit with hashtags. Any of the other social media platforms that you know are really great, like Pinterest or something like that? Pinterest is like this underdog thing. I find that some people are-
Kendra: So people are crushing it on Pinterest.
Christine: Crushing it on there. So is that something you know about?
Stephanie: Yes well, Pinterest, I'm certainly no expert. If I had to start doing Pinterest, I'd probably hire and expert, but I'll send you what I know about Pinterest. So, I think the strength of Pinterest is that it's 90% women. And 80% of the [inaudible 00:46:08] on the planet, are made by women, so if you're selling something, you need to be there. If you're selling something, especially that appeals to women like fashion, recipes, I'm pretty sure you both do Pinterest on a personal level, you know it's all [inaudible 00:46:28] and that sort of thing.
Christine: I might have a couple of vision boards on there.
Stephanie: So you know, we know we use it so we know how it can be effective. I do hear though that there are certain tools that I'm not aware of like you can create group boards, and you know, you can sort of get virality by having a kind of exchange of pins with other people, so that's the stuff I don't know much about, but it is also a search engine. People search in it.
Christine: Yes, agreed. I dabbled around with it like a year ago and I gained traction really quickly just by creating a specific board for sleep and sleep ideas, or best of sleep on Pinterest, something like that. And then I just had too much going on and I focused on it and I think you're right. I'm trying to squeeze Tamara to do it. I think I probably need to hire someone particularly to do it because I think it's a total gold mine we should explore Kendra.
Kendra: You know, especially because I think our audience is a lot of women as health coaches, Pinterest might be a good option for us to-
Christine: And you can get them with recipes, like sleep food or hormone food or mineral food or whatever. For me Pinterest is recipes, wedding dresses and like home décor and fashion probably, and holidays and vision boards.
Stephanie: When you think of wellness, you can probably go across so many categories that are already there. And you have a foot in each one and you're doing okay.
Christine: Amazing. Oh this is giving me hope that I can actually do this.
Stephanie: Yes you can get overwhelmed quite quickly but I do have a solution for overwhelm actually, and I'll give away a little trick that I use, and you can call it laziness.
Christine: I'm a big fan of laziness, I mean it's my middle name, Christine Lazy Hansen.
Kendra: Yes, I agree.
Stephanie: Or we could call it prioritizing, you know [inaudible 00:48:41] priority.
Stephanie: So the core, I believe the core of any online marketing strategy should be to build the traffic in the long-term and it depends what you're selling and what keywords you're using because I have clients that hit the first page of Google, in three weeks.
Christine: Wow! So like on the first page, if you look for sleep expert, and especially sleep [inaudible 00:49:08] adults, I'm number uno.
Stephanie: There you go. So you know, it can be easy, or it can be hard, depending on what you choose, but this is something you can learn quite easily. The good thing is that once you have that content, even if you're in an industry, maybe you haven't chosen fantastic keywords, or you're in an industry that's really competitive, you know that in six, eight months, maybe a year, you should still be seeing results. While you wait for that to happen, you can reuse the stuff that you're writing, for your social media so that you can get leads right away.
Christine: I have a question! So, as everyone, I am having trouble finding new content ideas because I wrote a blog post about pretty much everything that I can think of, and is it a good idea, because I know that Google want to be fresh and everything, so should I for example, write a completely new blog post, let's say parasites and sleep, do I write a completely new blog post, do I edit my old blog post, do I keep my old blog post or do I delete it and I have a new version of it? Any ideas there?
Stephanie: Okay so it depends on how much of it you're going to change. If you're just going to go in and maybe you weren't optimizing your blog post at the time, and you find a keyword for it and optimize it now, that really helps, but you're not going to change too much. Let's say you're going to change 20% of it.
Stephanie: So, that Google sees as a positive thing, because it means that you're keeping your old content fresh, so you get [inaudible 00:50:52] for that.
Christine: Got it. Oh that's really interesting. Okay, so that would be better than deleting it and writing a completely new post.
Stephanie: It depends on how much of the information in its [inaudible 00:51:05], because if you need to change about 60% of it, then Google's still going to see it as a new post.
Stephanie: So you might as well write it from scratch, optimize it properly, maybe try different title if it wasn't ranking. It might help you to go completely fresh if you're going to change, because Google will still see it as a new page.
Christine: Okay, okay I got it. Food for thought. I've been keeping them because I was just like, who on earth is going to go through all my blog posts and read all of them, nobody. So I just kept them for now, but I know that Google gets also upset, if you have old stuff that you don't update, so I was like, do I upset Google by keeping my old stuff and not doing anything with it, I'm not sure. Interesting.
Stephanie: Well it all depends, you need to do a content audit. So have a look at all your blog posts and see how well connected they are to each other in terms of topics, and how well organized they are on your side.
Christine: Not at all, most likely.
Stephanie: That's the first thing you need to do. If you see that once you've categorized everything, there are some posts that are obviously not fitting anywhere and they're not really so connected to what you do, it's better if you unpublish those.
Christine: Okay, got it. It's all in my 2020 bucket for now, but I think have an idea.
Christine: Good. Super helpful!
Stephanie: So, there is one trick that I wanted to share with you. Well connected to the question about social media before, because I think there's one little powerful thing that a lot of people don't know about, and you know Facebook, LinkedIn, all the social media platforms, they're the highest ranking platforms on the planet. So they have a very high authority, which means that if you get links back from them, they're going to count. They're going to count to give you authority and these days, search engines also read how much engagement you get when you post on social media, so it's definitely a plus.
Stephanie: Now what can really help as well is, when you're linking something back to a particular page or to your website, if you're using the keyword that you used in that particular page, in the text that's actually linking back, then it's going to have Google understand what you're about even more.
Stephanie: Because of course it's other people talking about you.
Christine: Right, got it!
Stephanie: Google of course, like anybody, you believe what other people say about themselves. Google believes what other people say about you, more than what you say about yourself basically.
Stephanie: Which is a very human thing to do.
Christine: Yeah, totally. Makes sense.
Stephanie: So everything that gets pushed out there, just make sure it's got the right keyword, or the right topic, and you know, you don't have a post that's talking about something really like, I don't know, we don't sell medication. Don't talk about it and then link it back to your site.
Christine: Right, yeah. This is fascinating, like tomorrow's to do list has just grown! But I think this is so helpful because we throw a lot of things out there and now actually I think I'm going to stop and think for a second, before I do [inaudible 00:54:54].
Stephanie: There's a very good tool, that allows me to do all of this from my website. So I actually don't go anywhere, to social media, I don't go to any tools to schedule posts. I just do it all from my WordPress site. I use a plugin called Nelio. It's N-E-L-I-O.
Stephanie: What it does is, once you've finished writing your blog post, and you've put in all your images, you've optimized it in Yoast, it's got a very nice button called, Auto-fill my Social Media.
Christine: I do like that.
Stephanie: And what it does is, say I've connected it to all my social media. It doesn't work with Instagram, because most automatic tools don't because they're always disconnecting, but it works with everything else. It's got a Pinterest option as well, which I'm waiting to use. I haven't used it yet. And what it does is that you can can go in the page, you've got the post at the bottom, and if you want to add additional images for Facebook, or maybe you want to change your Pinterest picture, or you want to make maybe, I make usually my Facebook posts, I make them much longer. So you can go in an edit what it's done automatically, and then once you've scheduled your posts say to go out on Wednesday morning, a few minutes later, everything will be pushed out to social media.
Christine: Yeah, I'm using something similar called Missinglettr, that's what I use. So it just, [inaudible 00:56:27] and all but it's doing the same thing kind of.
Kendra: Interesting. Okay. Very cool.
Christine: That's amazing.
Stephanie: I love the fact that you can do it all in one page and you don't have to go anywhere else.
Kendra: I will check it out, and we'll put it in the show notes for sure.
Christine: We will, yip.
Christine: All right so, I think we've been blowing each other's minds for an hour. Yeah, my little brain is like wow!
Kendra: And I know Stephanie, you mentioned having a free gift for our people, 10 steps to more leads, can you tell us a little more about that and why our listeners should definitely go grab that right now?
Stephanie: Yes, so I have a freebie about how to get leads from your website and basically goes through all of the things that you need to have in place, so if there are a few things that maybe you didn't catch, like the funnel or you know, just to make sure you starting at least with everything in place. This is a good place to start.
Christine: Right, perfect. So if you're not a lazy as us, and you want to do it properly, then that might be a good idea to download that. So where do they go to download that, to get in touch with you and if they're like, okay I really want more help with that, or I just want someone to coach me on how to write my blogs more efficiently, and all of that good stuff, where do they find you?
Stephanie: They can find me on my site which is stephaniefiteni.com.
Kendra: So spell that for us maybe because there's so many ways of spelling Stephanie and Fiteni I guess.
Stephanie: Yes, Stephanie's with a PH so it's S-T-E-P-H-A-N-I-E and Fiteni is F-I-T-E-N-I.
Kendra: Perfect, so you can find Stephanie there.
Christine: Well I thought this was worthy, at least five stars on [crosstalk 00:58:19].
Stephanie: I agree, I agree.
Christine: So a good keyword here would probably be SEO for Health Coaches, you know, I'm just brainstorming, we'll implement immediately what we've learned, see.
Stephanie: [inaudible 00:58:35], we've got to check.
Christine: So thank you so much for this. Seriously this has been a lot of amazing content that you've been sharing with us here. I'm really, really thankful for this, that we were able to pick you mind this way and ruthlessly ask all our questions. So thank you so, so much!
Stephanie: Oh you're very welcome, it's been great to share the information with you and I'm really happy to be here. Thank you so much for having me and I'll definitely be watching more of your pod casts.
Stephanie: All of them.
Kendra: All of them. Well thank you so much and guys, five start review and if you guys are on Instagram, make sure to screenshot this episode. As you're listening on your smartphone, you can mention 360 Health Biz Podcast. Let us know your take aways and we'll share your story to our stories, so we can all just help each other out. And guys we will see each other in a week, with the next awesome episode. Bye!
You may have already noticed that we LOVE Instagram and we love nerding out about it. If you are new to Instagram or haven’t quite figured it out yet, you are really going to learn a lot from today’s episode and hopefully you get a little nerdy too.
We are have Kelly Doody with us today, the Founder & CEO of Social School to talk all about Instagram marketing for business.
Here’s what you’ll find in today’s episode:
- the 4 A’s of Marketing (the 4 P’s are so 90’s)
- what the heck are content pillars and how you MUST use them to continuously produce new content
- keep things spicy with new content (nobody likes seeing the same thing over and over again)
- aesthetic to your Instagram feed
- the difference between IGTV and Instagram stories (and why you should be using both)
- nerd out with analytics to determine which content works and which doesn’t
- as we always saying, why niching your target audience is SO important
- why social media advertising is still something you should do (and why you shouldn’t just blindly boost a post for $20)
There's no PhD in marketing (or social media for that matter). To figure out what works for you and your business in order to market yourself as the kickass health coach you are, you just have to get in there and get dirty. Marketing is all trial and error but at least with this episode, we have plenty of tips to get your started (and reduce the amount of errors).
When it comes to Instagram, we like to think of it as frontend art and backend science. The number one question you need to ask yourself when you are posting anything is: how does your post convert. And which conversion is most important to you. Do you want the vanity conversions like likes or do you want tangible conversions like clicks to your website and follows, which eventually lead to sales? This means you might have to put some money towards boosting your posts but you should take it a step further and be strategic about WHO you are boosting that post to. You may have a ton of great memes or click-bait posts but at the end of the day, does that convert to what you want to achieve? This is where the frontend art comes into play and you need to consider the aesthetic of your feed.
Tune into today’s episode and get nerdy with us!
Kelly Doody - Founder & CEO, Social School Kelly is a journalist turned digital marketing junkie. In addition to founding Social School, a top digital marketing academy offering live and online courses and certification programs, as well as Canada's largest marketing conference series, she is the co-founder of Press + Post – an award-winning modern marketing agency with clients across North America. Nothing makes Kelly happier than training organizations big and small to master their online domain, while connecting the top digital tools and trends with the entrepreneurs and innovators who need them most. Her runner up bio is just as great… “buy me dinner and I’ll teach you the secrets to the internet”.
Get the Social School FREEBIE of social media planning tools & tip sheets: https://socialschool.io/subscribe
Planoly - www.planoly.com/
Say hi on social:
Kendra Perry Instagram: www.instagram.com/kperrynutrition
Christine Hansen Instagram: www.instagram.com/sleeplikeaboss_
Kendra: Hello everyone. Kendra here, welcome to an amazing, awesome, super exciting and super nerdy episode of the 360 Health Biz Podcast. I am so excited for today's topic. We're talking about something that's kind of sexy. We're talking about Instagram, and we love Instagram and I'm super stoked because I am hanging out with my beautiful, sexy and very well dressed, I might add, co-host, Christine Hansen. I love your dress. I think you look super good. Guys you should watch our video on YouTube to see how good Christine looks today. That old thing is like...-
Kendra: We have a super awesome guest today, we have Kelly Doody, and she is going to be talking to us about how to use Instagram for business. Instagram is definitely a hot topic, we've been posting a little bit on our Podcast about Instagram and you guys are really loving it. So we want to go a little bit deeper today and show you how you can actually utilize this platform to grow your business. And just to give you a little bit more background about Kelly, Kelly is a journalist turned digital marketer with an unrelenting passion for the knowledge share community that is marketing today. I love that. In addition to leading social school, she is the co-founder of the renowned Canadian, fellow Canadian, very excited, Digital Agency Press and Post. So nothing makes Kelly happier than moving individuals and organizations toward becoming the masters of their online domain and connecting the top digital trends and tools with the entrepreneurs and innovators who need them the most. I love that bio.
Christine H.: What a bio, I'm-
Kendra: Welcome Kelly.
Christine H.: I need to open that Google doc and use it as a model for my IMT because I'm like, jeez, relentless-
Kelly Doody: You're so sweet. My other one is one line. It says, "Buy me dinner and I'll teach you the secrets to the internet."
Christine H.: Totally fine. Dinner and dessert with my [inaudible 00:01:56]. That's like sexy talk for me. I'm like, "Ooh, let's talk marketing. Let's talk Instagram turn on.
Kelly Doody: It's foreplay absolutely. A Martini and that and I'm yours. It's like, yeah, got it. Okay.
Kendra: So Kelly I'd love to know a little bit more about you, because you said you were a journalist turned marketer, so how did you sort of transition from that space to the space that you are currently in now?
Kelly Doody: Yeah. Well, I mean the short version is that I was a columnist for the Calgary Sun and then I was doing some freelance writing for a few other publications. And I suppose I saw the writing on the wall with media and I don't do well when things are going in a very flat line. And, and or that there is no evolution and kind of promise to it. So in about 2010 after being a full time journalist for several years. I switched to the dark side and I started doing PR. I had the benefit I suppose, of really being in touch with in Calgary, the small business community and who was doing what in media relations and outreach and basically story telling. And that right was at the time where Social media was becoming a thing. And I knew I could help people with both.
Kelly Doody: So I started my own PR firm, which eventually grew into an agency with a friend of mine. And then one of those glorious days, that's the life changing moment and you can point to in your life or one of a few, it was my sister-in-law at the West Edmonton Mall water slides [crosstalk 00:03:20]. And she said to me... she said, "take your business online." And I'm sure a lot of your listeners and perhaps yourselves can relate that when you're a service practitioner and you're only making money by the hour or with whatever, however many hours you have in a day. I didn't love it. I felt like I was really constrained by, just sort of this ceiling on my head that had to do with, yes, earnings, but more so just the ability to scale and not being in that position.
Kelly Doody: So I started packaging up some of my so called expertise in content and media relations and I built my first course is called PR Pioneers and that was about eight years ago. And then just got really more into the education space to sort of build one, sell often one to many versus one-to-one. And then fast forward to 2019 and it's now a social school. And we run events, conferences and classes all across the country.
Christine H.: Very cool.
Kendra: Very, very cool.
Kelly Doody: Thank you. Yeah, it's pretty fun. And it just so happens that something in me said, "get the heck out of the PR game and stop talking about media relations." Love traditional media more than ever, particularly in this political climate we're living in where truth matters and journalism is so important. But I really also had much more of an interest in the digital marketing sphere. So I nerded hard. And I had to too, when I was building these online classes, like the curriculum was 4% of the work. It was 96% learning the platforms and owning them because I didn't have the funds to be able to pay someone to build a website, launched these courses, host them, pay walls, gateways, nurture campaigns, the whole thing. And as we know marketing is very much trial and error DIY, like just get down and, and get going on it. And that's when I say, the knowledge share community that is marketing. There's no PhD in this, there's not even a degree in the digital and the content sphere we're playing in. It's just get in and start working on it and then converse with your peers and find out what's working and what's not so [crosstalk 00:05:21].
Kendra: I agree especially because it changes so quickly, like something that's working now is not going to be working necessarily in two years or 18 months. It takes such a quick change. We've talked about this a little bit, also going from complicated to simple and so yeah.
Christine H.: And I think that's a little bit where Instagram is still this enigma. Is it really easy? Is there something I'm missing? Like, literally I don't know. Kendra and I, we went to Social Media X Awards in November last year. And we went to that seminar and we literally were like soaking everything up Instagram. But sometimes I find like I'm missing something? Is there something else to it? So this is really exciting for us because I think both of us, we are kind of knowledgeable about it and oh, I wing it Kendra is like a pro much more so, but I would love to know a little bit more. And I think a lot of our... it's actually converting very well for me Instagram, surprisingly. So I only got into it to build my brand and to do brand ambassadorships and things like that. But I think a lot... I think it's a great space for health. So tell us a little bit about your Instagram expertise. First of all, if you are in a health space, how can you use it? What should your goal be with Instagram?
Kelly Doody: Sure, yeah. And I suppose I'll start by answering that with two sort of big theories right now that we're sort of playing in. And one of those being that, and you guys have already said the word authenticity and absolutely we know so much that Social media and Instagram in particular right now, especially with its features like stories and IGTV and just even the communities and the forums that you can be a part of direct messaging aspect to it. We can do so much in exposing our A-words. We like to talk about moving past the four P's of marketing. Welcome to 1992 and going into the ace of authenticity and advocacy, which is the golden egg. Accessibility for your viewers, your listeners, your prospects or existing customers. Authority so that you're actually in a really authentic and humble or whatever your style is way, show that you know what the heck you're talking about. You are a leader in your field, you're an industry expert. People should trust you and want to buy from you, work with you, et cetera.
Christine H.: I'm like ready to storm out with it.
Kelly Doody: There you go. You got your A-words down, your A game is on point. But the other aspect of that is... and I suppose actually within that I will say that one thing we've become fiercely passionate about is not just the front end art but the backend science. And that's where we're seeing the difference. You already used the word Christine, convert. That is so important. So no matter what we talked about today, going forward, how we practice Instagram or Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, we have to be thinking about how this converts because otherwise it gets really bloody disheartening. You're like, "I'm three years, three months into and maybe now I'm promoting my posts, maybe I'm paying a photographer to up my game and I'm using an editorial calendar to plan my content and I'm ticking all those boxes to just raise my Insta game a little more."
Kelly Doody: But so what? Who cares? And we have clients and students who say this to us all the time and that's when we say we have no choice in 2020, 2019, but to be actually putting your money where your mouth is and actually maybe boosting your posts but to strategic audiences, running really complimentary Ad campaigns and sort of understanding that, that's backend technical aspect is where people are winning. And it's not a bunch of nerdy dudes. I hate to generalize. It should be the ones who are sitting there as the Ninjas, ones that are mastering SEO. It's like snake oil to the rest of us, or the paid rich that gets the content seen and acted on. We can all do this. And that's where I get so excited just to say to people like, "you're almost there. You just have to make slightly more targeted audiences or a bit more strategic content for that particular group of people. Or what's your goal? Where are people at in their customer journey with you and how do you reach them in each of those places?" And that was my super long winded way of saying, "Instagram can do all of that and more and it's awesome." I'm on fire.
Kendra: [crosstalk 00:09:28] Instagram because there's so many different ways to share content on it. You can do the short form video, the long form a video, the images. You can go live if you want to. And so I think there's a lot of different ways you can show up. I think where our audience might be confused is maybe the types of content they should be sharing it and like how to share it. Because I check out a lot of health coaches Instagram accounts and what I see is like there's a picture of a flower, there's a picture of a meal, maybe there's a quote and like they have like a hundred followers and they're frustrated because they're not getting anywhere. So I feel like... Can you tell our audience what types of content should they be thinking of sharing? Should it be about themselves? Should it be educational? Should it be behind the scenes? What should people actually be sharing on Instagram?
Kelly Doody: Yeah such a great [inaudible 00:10:11].
Christine H.: Not only use Shutterstock photos. I just went to spy out one of my competent competitors and I'm like, "If you only use shutter stock photos it looks so tacky, it's so old " And the other question I have is hashtags. Do they matter? Is it still a thing?
Kelly Doody: Yeah, okay. So, and I love it. Kendra what you're talking about is like basically where we start with everybody in strategy. And it's where whether or not you're working with an agency or you're totally solo. This is the piece that people most often miss and they just mediocre their into social, and Instagram in particular post, post, posts. And then the inevitable question is, "what the heck do I do next? I've run out of things to say." So the very like absolute must do starting point, whether it's today or 10 years from now, are content pillars. And what that is essentially is, what kind of themes can you break your content into? And you can do it in a really basic stance. And we do this all the time, like educate, entertain, inspire. So great if that's where you want to land, perfect.
Kelly Doody: But maybe for you it's more community culture promotional content. Maybe it's more product based. It's... We're working with the flooring company right now that says, that's way too, [woowoo 00:11:22] from me. I just need to straight up have pillars that include commercial, residential, renovation, awesome. Once we have our pillars set and we know how to essentially divide our content up into these buckets that allows for variety and interest and again that expertise to shine through that deeper more meaningful content because otherwise we just promote, promote, promote crap. I have an event this week, I haven't sold any tickets post, post, post and it just becomes numbing and sorry, unfollow. And then once we have those pillars in place we can come up with a really beautiful variety of content categories and that's where these can be universal.
Kelly Doody: How to unbox things, did you knows, behind the scenes, interviews, testimonials. And then really beautiful content types too, Still imagery, video, Carousels and then hopefully you can find a way to also start to insert graphics, animations, shifts. One of my favorite accounts is Plantarly. They're an Instagram planning tool plan O L Y and you look at their feed and I use it in classes all the time to show people like, "check this out." Not only are they like cycling through their nine grid on Instagram posts of color. So you'd go kind of purple in it ambers into yellow, into red, like beauty. This is like a 10 out of 10 A-game. But if we can even be a four out of 10, we're laughing. And then you can also start to see the pillars shine through. And they aren't technology company, they're pretty lame.
Kelly Doody: If you look on the surface and this is where we get into trouble. Where the realtor who's just posting, "Oh I don't know the latest house listing." or where a Physio therapist who's just posting the products that we work with as opposed to the faces and the transformation of those people. You're like... and we're not alone. Some of your, especially your service based health coaches, practitioners that are going, "God, it all feels the same." You've got to think deeper. My editor at the newspaper used to always say to me, "tell me more, tell me... who cares. I don't care Kelly. Someone's opening a restaurant or 50 other people. Tell me more." Well, "there is really neat family recipe from Italy of this pizza dough." Yeah, still don't care. Tell me more."
Kelly Doody: "Okay, well there's 42 members of this family in the kitchen and that's, they only hire their aunties. Like, "Oh, okay, interesting. Now I want to know the face and the person behind that story." But don't show me your latest like just same old, same old, the ribbon cutting, the zoomed out photo, the Shutterstock as you mentioned Christine. And that's what the humans connect with the faces in the context of humanity in those photos and in those stories.
Christine H.: I loved that. I think that's so important. Because a lot of these health coaches that I work with, or I'm checking out their Instagram accounts, I don't see them on their posts and their name might not even be in their bio. So how can you connect with that? There's no connection. I don't know who that is. They send me a message and it's from like health and wellness 200 with none of their name, none of their face. And you're just like, "uh, I'm not even going to answer this message." Because I don't know who this is." And I feel really bad because I'll have these DMs, but I'm like, "dude, I don't have time for this. I don't even know who you are, what this is about." And I'm like, no, no, no, no. But I agree that Kendra and I were pretty, no Kendra is not extroverted.
Kendra: I have my moments.
Christine H.: You have your moments It's actually difficult to say. We both actually like having photographs taken, right? So I have a Photo shoot wherever I go and then you see us a lot. But when I tell people that I... why is this on your Instagram? Shouldn't you be showing multivitamin? Or carrots or kale and all that kind of stuff, and I'm just... well that’s not what people check out. When they see that in their feed, it doesn't make them curious and I think it's so much... it's not about the photo in the end, it's what draws them in. But then it's about the headline and actually having a headline in an Instagram post is for many people like what do you mean headline? And to me in the meantime, I consider the posts that can teeny teeny weeny blog in a way. So it's fantastic what happens. And it's so true. Do change immediately your photo to you and not your logo or Kale.
Kelly Doody: Yeah that's a good starting point. Absolutely. People connect with a face, not a logo. And as infants I mean that's how we're wired. We look for the faces of our parents, the moment we can. And as adults we're the same. We want to see human faces and interaction. And we all know that trust has never been lower. It's hard to even trust Academia anymore let alone politicians and big business and banks. And it's just that this is the time we're in. We trust our friends, we trust referrals, the advocacy that comes from someone telling you, "hey, check out this restaurant, it's awesome." You're going to go there. So the more you can be that about authoritative, trusted face and person. But of course, if it's done in an artistic way and that's what's so beautiful about Instagram and when those varieties and content categories and pillars kind of get worked in and you just... all it takes is a bit of planning. Before we can get creative, we've got to get nerdy and we backed it up to an editorial calendar that says, "okay, I'm going to cycle through my entertain, inspire, educate, entertain, inspire, educate." Something like that, posts.
Kelly Doody: But I'm also going to cycle through a Still image that I took then a video, then a graphic, then some kind of, I don't know animation or... But again, the spice of life. If you pick up your favorite magazine, study Vogue, study Entrepreneur, Inc Magazine, and look at the layouts they've got. The reason we're so intrigued by a print Mag and the way that they've done it for decades so well is because the layout and the design and it leaves you wanting more. Emails are the same. I might love someone's email marketing or their messaging, but if it's always the same, there's no kind of surprise and delight. What am I going to see? What's going to make me open that email or make me start scrolling on their feed is going to be something that's different. So we have to also get past okay, "is it just me all the time or is it just my staff all the time?"
Kelly Doody: And that's where I truly believe that if you can showcase the people you're working with, and I know it's not always easy, we have privacy concerns we have kids to worry about. But if you can get 10 people that can be like these like faces of your business over the next 12 months that you can really showcase wonderful, right? But challenging ourselves a little bit, just like be the journalist of your business and dig a little deeper to tell those stories of transformation and end result because that's where you'll shine.
Christine H.: That's so good. It's so juicy. And so I just want to break this down a little bit. So what you're saying is, well first of all, people need to show up on their feed personally. They need to create content that people can actually connect with, which is not just like a bundle of kale or bacon and eggs.
Christine H.: Yap [crosstalk 00:18:09]. You have to show up in your feed and all that. And then you're saying like create these content buckets almost. Or more story like these different categories and like maybe figuring out like, what do you stand for in your business? If you're niching in like say weight loss, then you could have some of the transformations maybe you've created in your business and show those stories and tell those stories and maybe you have like different inspirational tips and then maybe you have recipes or whatever it is. But you're not always sharing the same kind of content, but you're breaking it down into these different categories, okay.
Kelly Doody: Absolutely. Yap[crosstalk 00:18:36] like what, Oh, sorry, go ahead.
Christine H.: Oh that's fine, But I'm not... like the way that I do it is because I don't plan. I'm notoriously bland and it freaks me out if I have to do like a long editorial calendar, like immediately, "I'm tired, I won't do it." And so it's just... But what I do, I do it in kind of this way because Kendra and I have been working with Jamie Jensen, who's also been on the podcast. And she helped us to basically flash out our story and she, through interviewing us separately with [inaudible 00:19:05] VIP days with her. She kind of figured out what our values are through us just talking and telling us her a story. And so whenever I do post, I go back to her framework that she created for me, which actually basically has exactly those pillars.
Christine H.: So some of them are business related and some of them are me related. And considering that the business is me, I usually go there and I look at, "Oh yes, I forgot that this word is something that is super important." And then I just pull something out that belongs to that. So it's not quite an editorial calendar because for me personally, that wouldn't work. It's just... I don't like it. It's just that my personality, I'm very organic. I'm never linear. That's not what I do. But [inaudible 00:19:50] do have that framework. So I think it's a brilliant idea to figure out what are your pillars and just even just write that one word and a post in it. Just put five posts around you that you always know I don't know what to think about, "Oh yes, this is my value or my businesses value." And you always find something to talk about because it's who you are. So I think that's brilliant. I do have a question though, because you said video and I was like, "I really want to do that." But what kind of video content would be Instagram like ish for let's say someone in the health space for example?
Kelly Doody: Well I mean... and a great question. I can't wait to hear more about what Kendra has been doing with her IGTV. Because this is a really beautiful feature that allows us to all be broadcasters of our own channels on our own. It takes stories to a bit of a deeper level, right? Within the platform, we're already a billion people are hanging out, so great. But when it comes to just sort of more high level video strategy. Once again, you have to figure out... I love the line, "Is it sustainable?" Can you actually dive into a video, strategy that is going to be something that's more than a one-off.
Kelly Doody: And I love to think to myself like, "okay, if I blog one time this year or let's say five blogs six times this year, that's six more times than last year." But at the same time I can't fall off the map. So what can you do? And I mean, the fact that we don't have to be as polished and perfect anymore or as maybe we did in the past with video. When we were going to be using it in commercial purposes. Because that's all we had. YouTube might still be a little bit more polished or it's a channel where you can certainly post sort of the more that more documentary like lots of post production and editing within it.
Kelly Doody: But Instagram stories and IGTV can be much more raw. So that's wonderful. All it takes is a little selfie stick or a tripod and a light and good sound. And all of those items you can buy for $30 a piece on Amazon. But at the same time for... back to the idea of what is the content that's best suited to you and what can you do? If you can't do an editorial calendar, no problem, but could you jot down five ideas for posts that week or look through your phone on the weekend, find a few photos and at least get yourself set up for some ideas. And then we get into the place where it's a little bit less, again, knee-jerk. And we're covering our bases, ticking our boxes and remembering as well. I love the idea of this dog trainer we have going through one of our certificate programs right now and she's lovely. And for her, the low hanging fruit on Facebook and Instagram is click baiting, you know the moose on the loose video playing in the paddling pool or the cat memes
Christine H.: Yeah, full techs.
Kelly Doody: But it might get some engagement and it might get some of those vanity metrics. The likes follows, shares. But it's not going to necessarily be the deeper stuff that makes me trust her with my new puppy, my new pet. If she doesn't plan and strategize and push herself to do the deeper, more strategic long form content or even just more, I don't know well thought out a series of posts or where she's showcasing her expertise, then she can sort of stay surface level. And with voice, the last thing I'll say, if you don't feel like you want to have a camera in your face and that's just not your thing, don't do it. Focus on the content that you can do well and maybe that is longer form writing and you should be blogging like crazy.
Kelly Doody: Maybe it's podcast because your voice is the soothing siren song. [inaudible 00:23:16]. But there's a lot of people doing Instagram stories really well that just hold the camera in front of them, but you get to know their voice. You never see their face. My friend, Dinner with Julie, Julie Ben Rosendaal does is brilliantly. And I love, she takes us on a journey every day with tons of stories, rarely see her face, but we so love her voice in the background. So you can do video in a lot of different ways.
Kendra: Yeah, I love that. And very quickly for people who are super new to Instagram, what's the difference between a on Instagram story and a video on IGTV? What is IGTV? And then you also have the live feature on Instagram stories, which I was like, what exactly is the difference? Until I realized that when you don't hold the button anymore on the regular story, it's like gone. So what is the difference between all of that?
Kelly Doody: Yes, great question. The short answer is that IGTV is sort of Instagram slash Facebook, who owns Instagram and Mark Zuckerberg answer to YouTube and YouTube live in particular. So just like they... let's say rinse and repeated photocopied everything that was Snapchat with Instagram stories 24 hours after disappearing mini stories. That were again more candid than what's in your sort of more polished scene. The IGTV was a way for us to go longer than we can go on stories. So you have a ten second video limit on stories. You can fill multiple live video stories in a row and they'll all show up. There are those little circles at the top of the feed, which I would think everybody's seen by now. But I was just with my girlfriends in Palm Springs on a ladies get away and three out of four of us had never heard of stories and that. And then they are like, "oh, what do you do?"
Kelly Doody: But anyway, so IGTV is now another feature where Instagram wants us to go deeper. And there's nothing like taking up a platform of any kind and just hanging out on it for the weekend and getting to know it. Every time someone says to me, "I don't like LinkedIn." I'm like, "have you been on it enough? Have you checked it?" Like really just dive in and you'll get so inspired as well as just have a better idea on, "hey, is this for me or not? Could I actually do this or do I want to just stay a voyeur and learn on it? Or actually do it way?"
Kendra: Yeah. Talking about voyeurism. So here comes my geeky stalky personality out. So if you're on stories, you can actually see everyone who's seen your story stories, which is kind of cool, but which also means that they see when you watch their stories. So I'm going to go and I'm going to share something with your sharing because I'm a huge stalker and I don't always want to people to know especially with some guy where I'm like, "no, I'm very cool, I don't care." So here's how you spy on someone so that they don't see basically when you have these circles, I think it's built that you just go through stories and then [inaudible 00:26:10] and the it continues. So if the circle is big, you go to the one afterwards, their story starts and then you just swipe back a little bit. And you can actually see what it's going to be about. Not the whole thing, but they won't notice. So as long as it doesn't really swipe over, you're good. So it's just enough [crosstalk 00:26:27] and it's like, "Huh-huh now I know and I look really cool because I don't care." But actually I do. So there you go it's [crosstalk 00:26:36]. It's funny if you were helping us be better stalkers I can see.
Kendra: I'm a very sad person, I am.
Christine H.: Very good and [crosstalk 00:26:44].
Kelly Doody: Oh, sorry go ahead. You go ahead.
Christine H.: You go.
Kelly Doody: I was going to say if you don't want to unfollow someone but they're posting too many stories, you can just hold that little circle and mute them and you won't see their stories anymore.
Christine H.: Which is great because if you unfollow someone, sometimes they yell at you though like, "you unfollowed me." And I'm like, why do people do that?"
Kelly Doody: Who cares? Like I can follow who I want to follow. It's not like a diss on you. I just don't want to follow you.
Christine H.: Totally. I know people are sensitive.
Kelly Doody: Okay. So I love this. So there's all different ways you can share the video. Like with IGTV, we can do that longer form video one. I think it's one minute to 10 minutes or something like that. And then IGTV, we are Instagram stories. We can do the shorter form video and then if you just want to talk forever you can do the live. But I think with the live it only lasts for 24 hours as well.
Christine H.: Yeah, right.
Kendra: Yeah, you can save it at the highlight afterwards I think.
Christine H.: It just takes a lot of effort, that's the one Instagram feature I don't really use is a Live. Because I feel like it's a lot of effort for something that disappears yet.
Kelly Doody: Yeah. It's really interesting where Facebook Live and Instagram Live are today and when Facebook Live came out about two years ago now it seems like, I don't know. It's funny Social media is like, it's also... it's really long and it's not that long. And of course we're all using it like a bunch of 19 year olds who want instant gratification as opposed to thinking of like, "how am I going to be using this for my business five years from now, 10 years from now." It is not going away. And that's why I really encourage the long game.
Kelly Doody: Stop thinking about just the next week and two months and think to yourself, what is Instagram going to have done for me two years from now? How do I want to invest in it currently?" Just like you would with a blog or just like you would with a video series. So, at the end of the day we need to think about whether live fills the right bucket for us as well. I read a really great line from actually Michael Stelzner of Social Media Examiner, who puts on the conference, it sounds like you guys attended or listen to. And for them they made a big decision that Social Media Examiner was no longer going to be using Facebook Live. And that was a big... They were heavy users. They had a big show on live.
Kelly Doody: And I love the simple analogy that we feel like we are trying to post a documentary on a billboard on the side of a super highway. People are flying by in their feed and here we're asking them to pause and stop and watch this video right here. Whereas when you're in a video specific platform like YouTube, you expect to be watching videos. You're not necessarily watching it. And I think that's why stories work so well because they're in Instagram, but they're short and quick and I can fly through them so easily. And just like podcasts, when you're diving into a podcast, you know what you're in for and you're folding your laundry or walking your dog at the same time. So you're ready for 45 minutes of juicy stuff. So we've really... It's just so mind blowing to me because I'm such a nerd, but I can't believe how much Facebook Live was so effective a year and a half ago. In terms of also the reach, like the organic reach we could get out of a Facebook video, maybe think to myself, why doesn't everybody stop wanting to be on Breakfast Television and Oprah and just start doing Facebook Lives? You're reaching a hundred times- [crosstalk 00:29:43].
Christine H.: It's very true.
Kelly Doody: However, and that's not to say like things are changing too [inaudible 00:29:48]. We don't invest in anything. Because I really... I don't agree with that sentiment. I think we're living in a time where these platforms have risen to the top as multi-billion dollar enterprises that are not going away and will continue to be invested in. A couple of years ago, everybody was worried that Facebook was like super lame because their mom and their grandma were now on it. And what do you know? Zuckerberg and his pals doubled down on it and made fantastic new features have made it the most powerful advertising platform in the world through Facebook Business Manager. So, yeah, you're in really good hands and it's a safe bet to double down on these platforms. Invest in them, but you don't have to use every single feature within them. Use the ones that make sense for you.
Christine H.: Yeah, I love that. And I think that's a really... because yeah, it's really easy when there's four different ways to share content on the single platform. Yeah, you can get really sidetracked and think you need to do it all. But I think you're right. You have to do what makes sense for you and what seems to work best in terms of what is the best engagement you can. And we were talking about this before we recorded. I'm just finding that my IGTV videos get five times the engagement and the traffic that all the posts in my feed and even what I'm getting in stories. I might get upwards of a thousand views on my IGTV videos. I might get 300 people watching my stories and I'll get like 50 likes.
Kendra: Because its so not close.
Christine H.: And so I'm like don't even know why I'm posting to my feed anymore other than-
Kelly Doody: I know, right?
Christine H.: You know pepper it in just to make it look nice.
Christine H.: Yeah, that’s exactly what I do. I love my feed because I think it's pretty, I'm just a total narcissist and I like just to watch my myself, no. I'm just kidding. But that's what I use my feeds for. Like literally, it's just in a long term. I'm really thinking someone who goes to see my feed and scrolling through it can see like, "okay, she's consistent. She has a certain ranch has she has a certain aesthetic, that's what it's for. It's like my business... my digital business card really. And Instagram stories is for the promotional push that I need sometimes or for fun, like literally showing pieces of me that don't belong in my feed because they're too goofy or then just me and I just don't want it to break up the prettiness.
Christine H.: But it's also interesting when you said, trying things. Because I always thought, "Instagram stories I don't want to make anything that's longer than five seconds or 15 seconds." And then I saw that Kendra was doing a lot of videos on there that a little bit longer, like not eternity, but still a little bit like that take like five taps, for example. Jimmy Palma did one recently. Not too hot topic at all, but I watched the whole thing, so I've tried it. And what doesn't make sense to me though is that when you look at who watches your story, you can see, okay they watched the first part, they watched the second, then they didn't watch the third, but they watched the fourth and the sixth again, which is really weird to me. So I don't quite understand how that works in their brain or in the feed. I don't know.
Christine H.: But it's interesting for me to kind of dissect it and to also see who's watching because it's very surprising and you can actually adapt what you're saying and what you're marketing to who is actually watching. Because I found people won't comment. The people won't, like a lot of them won't. But when you see in stories who's watching, you can actually tailor your audience to that, which I think is just fantastic.
Kelly Doody: Yeah, that's brilliant Christine, because I mean what you're describing right there is optimizing your content and you can optimize your Ads based on what's working, what's not. It's the same as AB Testing. It's the same as just essentially understanding your audience and catering it to them. And you can do it in a really like super nerdy reporting style way with lots of metrics. Or you can do what I love to call Anecdotal Analytics. I know this is working because of that. I know that that got a sick amount of views because we were moving down the street as we filmed that IGTV. We opened the door and welcomed someone in versus doing our typical sit down to talking heads style interview where we're 15 feet away.
Kelly Doody: Someone said recently or I think it actually started when Facebook Live first launched, they said if you're holding the phone more than an arms length the way you're doing it wrong. [crosstalk 00:33:45]. Yeah. And that was also because Live are same with Periscopes and with Meerkat, before that they were all about... it was a two way broadcast. So are you just speaking at people or are you welcoming them in? Of course IGTV is more of like you're filming a broadcast. But then how are you engaging with them after that fact? And again, just going back to those conversions. What is working well as you just described Christine like you know this is working, so I'm going to do more of that and this is totally tailored to this group. And even more so I'm going to further boost it to people like that in my killer audiences that I've pre-created in Facebook Business Manager.
Kelly Doody: So I'm going to just reach women age 25 to 32 who love, I don't know, CrossFit and Green Smoothies and live in London, England or something, right? But we're specific because Facebook will take your money and run. But it's super targeted and tailored to then further promote that content to like-minded audiences or a look alike audience of that. The group that watched that video, great. I'm actually headed into, I don't know Philadelphia with a conference. I've got a market that same video to a look alike audience of a similar profile of women in that market and I'm going to nail it. And it goes back to that idea of like instead of spraying and praying, I love the orchard example.
Kelly Doody: In the olden days just spray the whole field with water or rain and now we drip the water into the base of every Apple tree because that is where it's going to be most effective costs as the least amount of money and reach only those who give a crap. A million people are not an audience for anything. 100,000 if you're in a big market or 10,000 a smaller market, whatever that looks like for you is where we win, when we can tailor and target and now we're spending a lot less too.
Christine H.: So curious what types of audiences, because I know like I'm familiar with the audiences that you can create for Facebook Ads on Facebook, but what about Instagram? Like what audiences [crosstalk 00:35:35] Instagram we are all on the same page.
Kendra: Yeah, I love it.
Kelly Doody: Facebook is already at this thing where I'm like, "I just still mourn all the money that has gone down the Facebook Ads or texts and I still don't understand. But I love Instagram, and the only Apps that I mostly see that or that's target to me. I don't know why a luxurious cars, Villas, [inaudible 00:35:57] and cats. So obviously I'm in some target group there, but I don't even remotely see what kind of Ad I could do and who I target it to. Like it's so intimidating to me and I'm so like, "no, I don't want to waste all that money again." I don't even see what it would look like on Instagram. So hit me.
Kelly Doody: Okay. I'm like going like this because I'm like, "Oh because I like, "its my favorite nerdy topic right now." Again like art is great, right? And this is my problem with agencies is that I'm like, "you've guys we've got yes, beautiful photographers, videographers, graphic designers, animators, copywriters, headline expert, like yes." But we can all now do that." And if you're half good at it, and even what happened in our agency world is we... you have these clients that you're doing this for, "hey, we're content strategists now we're going to create your brilliant content, make you have all your A words shine, great." But after a while, that company hopefully figures that out and we're like, "we can do this awesome." That is where the agencies are not stepping up and we're marketers are so under-trained. And at least once a day I have someone email me and say, "hey Kelly, do you know any digital gurus, digital wizards?
Kelly Doody: And I'm like, "what you really mean as someone that can kill it for you on your Instagram, Facebook, Google Ads, right? With the side of SEO." With the side of SEO and they are like, "yeah, yeah that." So the thing about it is this none of these platforms are rocket science. And I say that because if they were then no Joe-blow like you and me would spend money on them and actually make Mark and his friends billions of dollars. And sadly for traditional media, this is where advertisers are spending their money because that's where the eyeballs are. When there's 2.2 billion people actively using Facebook every month, we better be advertising now and showing up there. And the more and more that the big multi-national companies like Proctor and Gamble and Ford Motor car. Everybody who advertises in the first 10 pages of Vogue magazine. Those guys are shifting more of their dollars away from Vogue and into Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn advertising.
Kelly Doody: But we can still do this at a super affordable way. So the way we do it is through Facebook Business Manager, right? Facebook Business Manager is not the same as a Business page. It is a platform-
Christine H.: So even If you're advertising on Instagram, you still want to use Facebook business manager?
Kelly Doody: That's right. The first thing you do is you add your... you connect your pages in your accounts, both Instagram and Facebook. Then you create your audiences, which you can create the most insanely. They're so good. They should be illegal. Like I can upload my email list and my subscribers and I can then target them on Instagram stories with an Ad. I can target... I can have a pixel firing them to my website, which takes four seconds to install. And then anybody who's been on my website on this particular page in the last 30 days, or they were on a year ago and haven't been back, or they landed on that checkout page but didn't buy or I can target them with an Ad. And now I have this beautiful way to move people again through my funnel, first of all, from awareness to action. But also I can then choose whatever placements I want. So this is everything from Facebook feeds to marketplace to Facebook Messenger, Facebook Stories, as well as Instagram feed, Instagram stories, Instagram... IGTV wherever I want to. So this is-
Christine H.: So you can advertise on IGTV?
Kelly Doody: Yes.
Kendra: Oh, very cool. I was not aware of that. I haven't been in my Facebook Ads dashboard in a while. That's so cool. Yeah. And when I was running Ads to stories, I did find that the story Ads were really high. They converted really highly and it was so easy. It was literally like a 15 second video of me being like, "hey, I got this free cheat sheets swipe up." And it was just like... it wasn't produced. It was just me walking around in my living room. And I think that works well because it kind of fits in with all the other stories. So it almost doesn't look like an Ad. And it converted so well and it was really cheap cost per lead.
Christine H.: Question, do you need to have an Instagram Business Account or can it be Personal Business Account? Because mine is on personal right now.
Kelly Doody: Yeah, now that's one of those little tricks they pulled on us, right? Same way we were all encouraged to have a Business page. I will say though that as a business, you get so much more insight about your audience as well as these business tools when you become a Business page. Does your organic reach go down? Yeah, it does. But at the same time, so has our personal reach and if we want to get really strategic as... and maybe it's not this year, maybe you're going to still use your personal feed in a way and you feel like it's effective and you're going experiment with content. And then you're going to start doing more of that whole right brain stuff. No way, I always confused those two.
Kelly Doody: But more of the backend stuff when you're ready to strategically advertise. And the first thing we always say is, "when it comes to paid reach and getting your content more seen as not that I exist to tell them when people who spend money on the internet by any means. However, I will be very frank and saying, "if you want to actually have results from your Social media, you need to be advertising on Facebook, Instagram or Google. It just is the way it is. It won't be seen. So start small, start with promoted posts, but don't just blindly boost a post for $20 to men and women who live in-
Christine H.: That the people who like this page. That's the worst audience ever.
Kelly Doody: Yes.
Christine H.: I'm like who are those people? You have no idea if it's the friends of the people who like your page or your ideal client. I think that's the only way more horrible [inaudible 00:41:13].
Kelly Doody: Yeah. And when you get a bit better at it, and I'm telling you it just takes a bit of time and commitment to the platform. You get really familiar with it and becomes super fun because for us, if we're going into Regina with a conference. If we spend $1,000 on Ads in Regina on both of those platforms and maybe some third party sites, which we can do as well. Then we expect to at least sell $10,000 worth of tickets. But generally we'll see not a 10X return, but like a 30X return and it's incredible. And if a certain Ad is not doing well and it's costing us more than 30 cents a Click through, then we'll turn it off and optimize the ones that are working.
Christine H.: Yeah. And I think it really comes down with, you got to know who you're talking to. You can't just blindly put some Ad out into the world that has no purpose. You don't know what the end goal is to a bunch of people who are random. And I know in our audience, they have a lot of resistance I guess towards like defining who they're actually talking to, defining their avatar. And this is something I talk about a lot but a lot of the coaches I work with, they just... they have analysis paralysis. Is that's it?
Kelly Doody: Yeah.
Christine H.: And they just can't figure it out. And I'm like, "just pick something, like test it." [crosstalk 00:42:23] You have talking to because if you just put out a random Ad to random group of people, you're wasting your money.
Kelly Doody: Totally. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Testing your content and then also testing any kind of investment you're making in the same way that maybe you still feel like Radio campaigns and Postcard Mail drops are working for you. Great, but if you don't actually have a stake in that and an interest in knowing, "well how many did that actually convert? I put a promo code on that postcard. Not one was redeemed." Okay, point noted. Versus maybe this campaign over here that I ran on Instagram or this just basic promoted post for $100. Not only did it garner me some conversions and traffic to my site, awesome. Because I'm paying attention to my Google Analytics and seeing where they came from. But I also got all these new followers and engagements and now these people are with me for hopefully likes, if I do a good job versus a one-off flat engagement with a postcard that I'm never going to see them again. So, yeah.
Kendra: Excited! 2020, I'm going to just see what I'll actually do 2020 but it's going to involve some Ads again. I'm going build up my trust again and just try. But not Facebook. I am not friends with Facebook but Instagram-
Christine H.: Well I think Instagram ads are a good opportunity. And I'm not sure if it's still like this but I know the IG Story Ads did... were pretty cheap. I was getting three cents a lead like that. Yeah. I wasn't even paying just a story. It's got me like 24k so, okay.
Kelly Doody: Yeah. And I still think there's a lot of organic opportunities on Instagram, but I think once you get to a certain part in your business, you need something that's reliable and that's really where the Ads come in. It's not just like bring it out and hoping, but actually knowing that this many people are going to see this Ad in the right group and then you can start predicting how much money you should bring in. Yeah.
Kendra: Especially depending if you have courses, which I feel a lot of our clients steal client, our listeners do or if you have products like supplements or anything like that, I think that is where it's hard. And just doing high end Ads might not be exactly that, but business mentoring might be. So you need to see what is your price point, what makes sense.
Kelly Doody: Yeah. And if you're doing it well and again, paying attention to the return that you're getting, excuse me. You get to a point where we're a small business as well. Like I have... we're a team of four, but we are going into new markets and we need to be taken seriously and we need to grow our... all the things, all the revenue, bottom line things everybody else does. And I'm at a point where I'm like, "if I had 17 credit cards that I can throw down on Instagram Ads every month, I would." Gary Vaynerchuk said this all whole day long. He was a very brush marketer from New York. But like down on these, because they're undervalued right now and under-utilized. And that's changing. The keywords that I used to bid on for marketing education Ads on Google. So Google Keyword Ad that might've cost me $2 in 2002 is now $36 to bid on for in 2019 are way more hundred dollars sometimes.
Kelly Doody: So Facebook's nowhere near that yet and Instagram. But as I said, as more and more people start to shift their dollars from traditional to digital, and I don't just mean a digital version of the newspaper. I mean like literally social norms, then these costs rise. But right now we're in this golden era of being able to really reach people magnificently and you will see return. It's terrifying when you start spending thousands of dollars monthly on Facebook and Instagram Ads, but when you're getting 20, $30,000 in sales or in leads as a result, why wouldn't you do it?
Christine H.: Yeah. I don't know who said this, but I heard someone say, "Don't be cheap with your dream." And I love that because yeah, if a lot of us, we build a business, it's our dream to work from home or retire our partners or whatever it is. We really, really want this. We're very emotionally tied to it. And you can't just do it for free. You have to invest in it if you care about it. So don't be a cheap ass.
Kelly Doody: That's right. And first learn how to do it so you don't just burn your money. But any one can learn this stuff. I know it feels overwhelming just like anything but pay someone to do it for Christ's sake. [crosstalk 00:46:30].
Kendra: If I don't want to do that. I'm just like, "no." But I really don't mind paying a good agency to do that job.
Christine H.: Totally.
Kelly Doody: Yeah. Or pay someone and like the great thing is you can learn all this shit on YouTube. Like there are so many great videos. I've learned a lot of what I know about Instagram by going on YouTube and like following specifically people who have a lot of knowledge on the topic. And just getting all those tips and tricks, trying it out, testing it, seeing if it works and going from there.
Christine H.: Exactly.
Kendra: Totally. Brilliant. Well that was my brain exploding kind of contents. I loved it. Thank you so much Kelly.
Kelly Doody: My pleasure. I really, really loved chatting with you guys and hopefully your listeners are likely in a place like many of our students where they're figuring it out themselves and then they're feeling pretty empowered by it.
Christine H.: Yeah. And they can either start hiring Kendra and I very soon. So we're going to do more on that in the future. And I'm just teasing [inaudible 00:47:26]. But... Or they can obviously get in touch with you. So Kendra and I hire our own guests on a regular basis.
Kendra: We hire them all the time. It's so funny. [crosstalk 00:47:39]. We need to hire this person.
Christine H.: Like I said, Kendra texts like, "I hired her." I'm like, "me too."
Kendra: Where can our students find out more about you Kelly? If they want to connect with you and Social school and what you do, how can they find you?
Kelly Doody: Thank you so much. Yeah, we're at socialschool.io. Inputs, Outputs is IO. And we have plenty of... we try to produce as much free content as we can that supports people. We'd like to be a resource first and foremost and the how-to-people. So try not to inspire but also equip. And we've got tons of courses that start $29 that are platform specific for Instagram for business, blogging for business. We have an IGTV course if you want more on that. And they go right up to digital and social media certifications and so-
Kendra: Amazing. I'll be checking into us courses like.
Kelly Doody: Thank you.
Kendra: I know it's like I stated it, "no, stop. Why didn't you finish that's 50,000 that I already have [crosstalk 00:48:32].
Christine H.: I love buying courses. I just love- [crosstalk 00:48:40].
Kelly Doody: Totally. We have one with some coaching along with, it's called our Guided Online Stream where the completion rates are very high and we hold you to it. We meet every week for webinars and quizzes and two days in office hours. Yeah. That's my favorite.
Christine H.: Yeah, it's good. I know a lot of people who... they're like "I own $30,000 of courses and I haven't completed one." And you're like, "Oh my God! you've got to finish those." Totally. I love it. Yeah. Aren't we funny?
Kelly Doody: Well thank you very much you guys. And there's a bunch of free resources too, I think it's at our website there. If you subscribe to our newsletter, you get access to our dashboard of tons of tip sheets and downloads.
Christine H.: That sounds juicy. We'll definitely link to that in the show news for this episode. Thank you so much Kelly. We really, really appreciate it. Thank you for hanging out with us and talking stuff and being ridiculous and laughing. We always appreciate it and thank you everyone for listening. Remember, if you liked this episode, make sure to screenshot it, share to your Instagram stories and let us know your take-homes. Let us know what you learned. And mention 360 help is podcast and we will share it back to our stories because we love Instagram.
Kendra: And leave us a five star review on iTunes, [inaudible 00:49:43] guys. We would love it.
Christine H.: We love your reviews and we will read it on air and give you a shout out and yeah. We will come at you again in another week with a Biz Bomb, which will be super juicy and it'll explode your brain. Take care.