Tools mentioned in this episode:
https://amberdugger.com/ - Profitability Calculator
I Will Teach You to be Rich - Ramit Sethi
Tapping Into Wealth - Margaret Lynch
Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself - Joe Dispenza
About Amber Dugger:
Amber Dugger is the founder of Budget Alchemy, a system developed for health coaches to end the stress and anxiety around numbers. It is a holistic system combining personal finance and business cash flow strategies using Profit First and YNAB (You Need a Budget). She has helped dozens of coaches implement this system and helped hundreds more calculate revenue goals that actually make sense! She is a certified health coach from IIN and worked in corporate finance for 15 years before venturing out on her own in 2015 and thrives on being location independent. She loves traveling, wine, bicycles, knitting and a good cup of tea (in England) and coffee (in Italy).
Contact Brendan Vermiere:
Christine H.: Hey everyone, and welcome to this episode of the 360 Health Biz podcast. And today, its me! Your host, Christine Hansen and the adorable, wonderfully beautiful partner of mine Kendra Perry! At 6:00 AM and still she looks beautiful.
Kendra Perry: Oh my god, it's the zoom filter that's making me look good right now.
Christine H.: And, we also have a very special guest today who saved my life Amber Dugger. So I'm really excited because we're going to talk hardcore money today. It's a topic that makes us shiver, shake in our boots, but it is actually something that we need to get a grip on. Now before we do that, if you love the topic, if you think we're cute and funny and intelligent and smart and everything, then obviously please leave us a review on Itunes. A five star review would be amazing. And as a thank you, you can head over to our website 360healthbizpodcast.com and you can get a free gift which is a complete tool kit full of [stuff] that we love to use, online tools, you name it, everything is in there with an explanation and sometimes coupon codes. So go and check it out, it's entirely free.
Now, to introduce you to Amber. So Amber is the founder of Budget Alchemy a system developed for health coaches to end the stress and anxiety around numbers. Amen. And I will tell you a story about that. It is a [holistic] system combining personal finance and business cash flow strategies using profit first and YNAB which stands for You Need a Budget. She has helped dozens of coaches, including myself, implement this system and helped hundreds more calculate revenue goals, that actually make sense. She's a certified health coach from IIN and worked for corporate finance for 15 years before venturing out on her own in 2015, and she thrives on being location independent. She loves traveling, wine, I like that, bicycles, mixing and a good cup of tea in England and coffee in Italy. I love that.
Kendra Perry: Great bio!
Christine H.: Absolutely it is [inaudible]. Amber and I met because I hired her. Basically I saw her because a friend of mine, [Meryl] was talking about how she was actually getting a grip of her money, was able to calculate, predict, how much money she needed and then things really started to happen much easier. It was much easier to plan, to manifest, whatever you want to call it. And at the time, I think I felt like a lot of us do, I was in my business, I knew that I had money in the bank account but I never really knew how much. I refused to look at my bank statements, I just ignored looking into my bank account unless I needed to wire money and had to take a look at it. And it was just a scary thing, right. Especially at the beginning of your business when things are not as rosy, and when it's tough. Sometimes, we can be very good at ignoring our numbers.
So I reached out to Amber because I knew we have to get a grip on this right, because also our personal finances, everything was okay, we had savings. But I remember that my husband at that time he had paid our bills first and our mortgage was supposed to go out afterwards, and usually it was the other way around, mortgage would always go out and we would pay the bills with whatever was left over. So this time, he had already paid the bills, which meant the bank couldn't take out all of our mortgage because we didn't have enough money in that bank account and that freaked me out. I was like, “There's no way, the mortgage is the holy thing. There's no way that we cannot pay the mortgage.” And we could, but we had to dip into savings. So that was the point where I was like I need to become an adult and actually know how much money do I need to make. How can I prepare myself for tax seasons? How can I not stress about this thing?
And so I reached out to Amber and she completely changed my world. So Amber tell us a little bit about... I think I'm a typical story of people that you work with, I imagine, but tell me, the people who are listening, a little bit about how people start off with you and what you do in order for us to get to where you actually have a plan and feel comfortable with money, kind of thing
Amber Dugger: Sure, well first of all I wanna just thank you both for having me on. This is just such an honor to be here. I'm really excited to talk with your listeners and learn more about what it is that they may be getting stuck with as well.
This is such a common topic and it's a topic that hasn't been spoken about been spoken about for a very long time. We've been very silent about our personal anxieties, struggles, shame, guilt around money and that time has come to an end. It is time for us to start speaking openly about this so that we can move past it. We have the most amazing talents and abilities. We are motivated and we are ready to just take on the world, right. We have these awesome businesses. We can make great money and now its time to figure out exactly how to start keeping some of it.
Budget Alchemy was the original name; it's now Profit For Keeps. So anyone that's looking for it, just make sure to look for Profit For Keeps. I named it that for a reason and that is because we wanna be able to actually see some evidence of the success in our business and we also then wanna move to something called Profit For Joy.
Money is truly just a resource and we have all of these thoughts about it being very complicated and there's a reason for that. It's not because in the last 40 years we became completely illiterate about money. It's the environment that has changed. So in the past we would have cash. Everyone had cash and it was very easy to determine if we could afford something, because if we didn't have enough cash, we wouldn't pay for it right? [crosstalk] And of course in some ways it allowed us to not get into debt, but at the same time, it also allowed us to know exactly where we were all the time with money. And there's a psychological exchange when you hand over money and then you receive something back, you have exchanged value in tangible terms. It makes sense right? But if you hand over a card, and then you buy the thing, and then they give you back your card and the thing, you've now just rewarded yourself.
Kendra Perry: Yeah
Amber Dugger: Right, because it's a little switch
Kendra Perry: Its true.
Amber Dugger: And since we've started using electronic payments, consumer debt has skyrocketed and its because we don't see it. Paying 25$ on card seems very different than paying 25$ in cash.
Kendra Perry: Yes.
Amber Dugger: And the creditors know this, they use psychology. Their main goal is to rack up as much balances as possible, so they can then get the interest. So you have this whole industry against the consumer, wanting to make money off of them.
At the same time we now have this new way of paying for things, like our phone, where we just wave a magic wand, or use our watch and wave that right. So now we're not even giving anything away and we're still receiving stuff.
So for any of you listening that you're feeling like, "Oh I'm so guilt... I feel so much shame around the debt that I carry." I want you to first remind yourself that you're in an environment where it is absolutely normal to have debt, and an industry that wants and encourages it.
So that's the first thing, the second thing is it's really important to refrain the debt that you currently have; if you have any. And the reason for that is, it has gotten you to this exact point right now. So to change the attitude around it and look at it with gratitude and say, "This has gotten me my education, this has gotten me exactly where I am right now and it has leveraged me to allow myself to be here and I'm not ready to take the next step forward to create my own leverage for myself." And there's just some small tweaks to make that happen and everyone, I truly believe everyone is good with money they just haven't found a system, possibly, that helps them feel empowered with the numbers. So I'm all about just making numbers super approachable simple, and tied directly to what it is that really brings you and those that love joy.
Kendra Perry: Oh wow, I love that. And it's so true, I never even thought of that exchange of energy because I'm pretty bad for buying everything on Amazon prime. I'm just like, “Ooh that, that, I need that, I need this, I need this!” And then I look at my credit and I'm like what the hell did I buy this month? There's Amazon prime 30 times. [crosstalk]
Christine H.: You just see Amazon, Amazon, Amazon. What was it [crosstalk] I don't even remember.
Kendra Perry: I like blacked out and now I have hundreds of different types of paperclips.
Amber Dugger: The same goes for Target. For a lot of people Target can be that black hole of just amazing stuff, but like what did I buy at Target that's 300$.
Yeah, so to answer your question about where people start, I think it's important regardless of where you are in business. If you're making your first thousand a month or your making 100 thousand a month. Its important to take a step back and first ask yourself, “Why did I go into business for myself? What is it that I truly wanna do with the money that comes into my business?” Assume you're paying your bills, assume that you have no debt, assume that you have savings. These are all possible things. But once you get to that point, what is it that you want to accomplish, what is it that you want to experience, what is it that you want to change, to impact? These core things can happen, they can be realized, and the only way it will happen is to get really clear on that.
A lot of times when I speak to people for the first time, they're so focused on the idea that it's not actually possible to move forward, that it's not possible to get out of debt. That's a very real, normal feeling. So if you're feeling those things don't think that you're the only one, there are so many people out there feeling that and silently suffering. I want you to know that you're not alone and the best way to move forward out of that is to recognize, first of all that yes, I can do this and secondly there has to be a bigger reason why. Otherwise, we will stay in this cycle because it's comfortable. It may not be fun, but it's comfortable.
So that's the first thing, second thing is really gaining awareness about your situation. Are you making enough money to cover your bills? Are you making enough money to be profitable? And I think that's the single most important thing, besides the why, because you can have all these dreams, but if you don't have a business that's generating a profit, it will not get you there. The profit carries you forward to allow you to realize those things.
So we calculate a revenue goal, we get profit first percentages which are really simply just percentages of your money going to specific things. So its certain amount going directly to profit, so its like a savings account. A certain amount going to your personal pay so that you can pay the bills that you wanna pay for your lifestyle, your lifestyle's gonna be different from the next entrepreneur and the next coach, and that's fine. Some of us live in New York City, some of us live in Kansas City. The cost of living is gonna be different, therefore your personal needs are gonna be different. So having a generic revenue goal is a detriment to everyone because it doesn't make any sense. It used to drive me crazy when I would see those Facebook adds, “Make 5K as a health coach!” That may work for someone but I know for sure, for me, when I was starting out as a health coach, I needed to make 8K to meet my goals. So it just always frustrated me thinking, “Well, I would always be behind or be going into debt making 5K a month.” Whereas someone who needs 3K will be like, “Woo, 5K's amazing!”
Christine H.: That was brutal, like brutal, brutal, to actually look at how much we needed to make even as a family, right, at the time. Even with my husbands salary and mine, actually looking at our subscriptions, our insurances, our monthly bills, our yearly bills, which we tend to forget, and then I'm like oops, okay savings. That was brutal. That was super hard for me, because I was not making enough money at the time to pay fat taxes, plus living expenses and paying myself was just not in the cards, right [inaudible]. So, knowing that, I think a lot of people have no clue, like they literally don't know. I didn't know how much money I needed to set aside each month to actually just cover my basic expenses without any luxury items or anything on top of that, or any of my business expenses. I think that's the exercise I would ask that I would ask everyone to start doing. Look in that folder where you have your annual bills and when you do the calculation, its very enlightening in a positive way. I don't know if I found it enlightening, I found it [crosstalk]
Kendra Perry: Shocking.
Amber Dugger: That's probably the most emotional point and it also takes the most courage. I'm so inspired by everyone that sits in front of me ready to do that work, because it is a point in time where you've decided enough is enough, I'm ready to get clarity and I'm ready to have a tangible goal to hit. The reason I believe so many have not done this in the past is no one has ever really talked about how to do it before. Going through health coaching school, I was shocked. People were talking about how much percentage of your income you should put to investing and they aren't even talking about how much money you should be making as a health coach and suggesting that we start of at like 200$ a client per month. And I was doing the calculations, I was like, I'm gonna need like 55 clients.
So I encourage all of you to go to my website and download a free calculator. Its called the revenue profitability calculator. I offer that as gift to everyone, because it is the single most important thing and if you do that you now have a tangible goal. You don't need a lot of information, you just need to know roughly how much you want to pay yourself each month and how much your monthly expenses are. That's really it. You put those two things in and you get a number.
There's more to it after that, but getting that number is powerful, because now you can look at seeing, okay, "if I need to make 12000$ a month to live this ideal life that I've put together here, how many spaces do I have available for clients? How much am I currently charging?" If I have 10 spaces and I need 12000$, okay well that's 1200 a month on average I need to charge my clients. How can I create a package that would allow for that. Or what other revenue strings can go into that so then I need 6000$. There's so many different ways you can start playing. But it's a simple thing.
It's like taking a piece of paper and saying okay, 12000 at the top. Alright how are different ways that I can make this happen and it's a really exciting thing because now you have a real thing to go after and its not like shooting in the dark. Which is amazing that so many of us can continue to run a business without having that number, so just imagine once you do. Its like this, okay watch out world, I'm driven now, I'm getting this number now.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, that's awesome and where does all this fear around money stem from? Because I remember when I... I had a look at my finances, a few years ago and I read that book called, I think its called I Can Make You Rich, I can't remember the authors name, but it's a pretty popular book.
Amber Dugger: Ramit Sethi
Kendra Perry: Yeah Ramit Sethi. I looked in my finances and then I remember crying to my boyfriend in the [inaudible] meeting, like “I'm unsuccessful! I don't know what I'm doing! Oh my god! What happening.” We had just started dating so he was like oh god.
I had this fear of even looking at my bank account and where do you think that stems from?
Amber Dugger: Well that's a great question. I think it can really depend from person to person. Well first of all, I just want to share that money is 99% behavioral and emotional [crosstalk]. So there can be 1001 reasons why it might instill fear, but I would believe, one of the most common ones that I see, is that we simply fear what we don't understand.
We may not admit that out loud, but I know that for my own situation thinking about when I first started out as a health coach, I was scared of marketing. I just didn't understand it, I don't really know how to do it, I didn't really understand the ideal client. So I was always scared to market myself. With money a lot of are expected, somehow, out of thin air to understand money.
This is a generational problem I would say, because back in the 30's and 40's we had the Great Depression, [inaudible] so then the way to manage money was just don't spend it ever. So that generation had money because they simply lived a really simple life with really not enjoying very much. Even to the point, I remember my grand-mother telling me... she gave me a silver platter when I graduated college and she said, “this is the silver platter that we used and just a trick, when you are starting out and you don't have a lot of money, buy a really small roast but then fill it with potatoes and root vegetables to make it look like its bigger.” And this was a reality for that generation.
So we have that. Then we go into more of the baby boomer phase where this is so much opportunity and people are making a really great living with pension. So then they've learned from their parents to not spend a lot of money and to just work and be able to have that pension and that retirement.
Now were getting to a point where things are so different from what our parents, our grand-parents experiences and there's so many different types of loans I didn't even know existed until I started working with the clients that I work with now. There are loans on every possible way that you could bring in money. There's loans on your pay pass settlements, there's loans on your stripes settlements, there's loans on your house, your car. You can pretty much get a loan on anything. This is causing a problem where people tend to ... if they get into this cycle, more than half of their expenses are now being paid on interest. So you can get to a point where just almost all of your payments are going to debt repayments. This is a timing thing now, because if we can live below our needs and at the same time pay down our debt, then we're creating our own loans to ourselves. Because if we have our own savings than we can borrow from ourselves without paying any money. So these loans are just costing us so much money.
But, to get back to your question about where it stems from, I think it can be the fear of the unknown, it can also be experiences that we also had as children. So there are people who actually stress more about money and have a lot of savings because they saw their parents never have any money. And then you have some people that are scared that it will be taken away or be used as power against them. That has happened with different family structures and things like that. So its a really good thing and a really form of self-care to explore this with yourself and see where does this stem from. I know that Christine knows that I just love this book, I talk about it all the time, I always have it here.
Christine H.: I recommend it to everyone. It changed my life. I'm not kidding you. That's when I went from charging 800$ to 10000$. That book. That was it.
Kendra Perry: Who writes it? Tapping Into Wealth.
Christine H.: Tapping Into Wealth by Margaret M. Lynch. It uses EFT.-
Kendra Perry: I'm going on Amazon prime right now to buy it.
Amber Dugger: Don't wait, just kidding. But what's so amazing about this book is every time I read it I learn something new about my relationship with money. Because we never get over money blocks, we always will have different ... because we continue to have experiences. So those experiences will allow us to continue to add to our relationship but I find that as I continue to explore my own relationship with money, it becomes less and less part. It's not a good thing, it's not a bad thing. Money is simply a resource to allow me to do the things that I wanna do. Its meant to flow. it's not meant to just stay there and not doing anything right. I mean if all hung out in a room and never left and we had 3 million dollars sitting there, it would be a pretty boring life, if we couldn't do anything with it. We'd be like, okay maybe we need to burn this so we can have some meat. So it was really just a reflection or representation of the ability to then exchange that value for something else. So yeah
And, money, you want to have enough so that its aging to about maybe 100 days, but then after that you want it to move in and out so that it can flow. Water gets toxic and [murky] if it just stays in one place. But if water's moving, its so beautiful, and pristine and fresh. And it's the same thing with money. If that is something that resonates with you, I highly recommend, I'm a book nerd, its called The Soul of Money by Lynne Twist. She describes this beautifully. I've learned so much from her on really understanding what money really is.
Christine H.: I love that. I also have to say, the good thing is that your money blocks, once you know them, they're not gone as you said, but you can detect them, right. So, I think for me, the main money block was, like, I was always bad at math. So for me money equals math. [inaudible] it's the same thing, hence I'm bad at it. I never had to worry about money in my life, in a way. So I never really bothered to deal with it.
so the other thing is that, you know, once I worked with you Amber, I kind of understood that it's not the easiest thing for me. I think other people just get things much quicker and but its doable and it gives me a lot of power. The other thing is that I gave emotions to money. Even now, you know when I had savings that came from my family, it was bad money for me. I didn't want to use it because it wasn't the money that I actually made in my business. And I had to understand that actually no it's not good or it's bad, it's a resource that I have for a reason. I just went to do some major life changes and needed my savings to start fresh and I've had really bad in the beginning because it was from my business, but I had to use it from my savings. But in the end, who cares, you know. It is allowing me to start something new and since then, my business has taken off so much more than ever before.
So I think I still know when I sabotage myself and I actually reached out to Amber recently because I was like, "okay I'm starting to do it again." But at least I know. I know and I'm like, “okay, this weekend, its big girl panties on and let's sit down and do the money thing." Because once you set it up, its so easy. It's so so easy, you know. Its just taking that step and doing it, I think is the biggest one. Whether you think you're bad with money, like the cliché sentence, or whether you think its super scary to look at that bank account, I think its always worth it and I really really, especially in the health coach business, where people want to help other people, you cannot do that, if you cannot pay your bills. Its just not doable. You are also running a business. Money and business is just a thing that goes together.
Amber Dugger: As your speaking, its coming to mind for me, I'm just envisioning someone listening to this for the first time and I'm guessing that there might be a question of, "Yes, this all sound amazing, and yes I really wanna do this but how do I do this? What do I do first?" And so would you guys like me to just explain a little more about what I think would be the three most important things to do.
Christine H.: Yes, please do.
Amber Dugger: So if you're listening to this and you're feeling a little overwhelmed or maybe you're feeling inspired or maybe a little bit of both, the first thing that I would suggest that you do is just take a moment and close your eyes and just take a deep breathe. And thank yourself for having these feelings and for listening to this and wanting to take action. This is a beautiful form of self-care and as you promote that to your clients as health coaches it's also important, as you know, to do this for yourself.
And the next thing I want you to just think about is what does your ideal life look like? What are the feelings that you want to feel in this ideal life? And just sit with that for a couple of minutes and really feel the things around you in that ideal life and the people and the images and the smells. This is something that you can do every morning and visualizing what it is that you are wanting to achieve. And it will also help you gain clarity over what it is that you truly want to do with the resources that come into your business.
so there are two things that I see most people, especially when their starting out as a health coach, that's blocking themselves from money. If you do not have a very easy way for people to pay you, I want you to do that first, and that can be as easy as getting a stripe account and using Acuity Scheduling. That's my favorite one, but I'm sure you guys have your own favorite ones. The second thing that I would suggest is that you get a way for to book in. If there's not a place or space for people to book in, then you won't be able to have the calls, and you won't be able to ask for the money. So those are the two most common things I see block, and don't make it really complicated, make it an easy way for them to pay.
The second thing is if you've done that or you've got, "yep, check, check". The second thing is, sit down and do one of two things. If you wanna do it very simply, just write down a number that you wanna pay yourself every month. Very simple. Second thing, just quickly tally up your business expenses that you currently have and write that number down. Then go and get that revenue calculator and put those two things in, and once you get your number put it on a post-it note and stick it up next to your desk and then maybe put one in your wallet, put one on your bathroom mirror, put one, if you can, put it all around your house. This is definitely something that the Tapping Into Wealth girl talked about and I did it. Every time I change this number, I hit that number. So its a very powerful thing. Just putting it out into the universe.
If you decide that you wanna go a little bit deeper than just writing down the numbers, which is totally fine if that's what you do. If you wanna have another step, than go to your bank account and print off your last statement, and just take a highlighter and mark anything that you feel like you weren't using. Because there's a difference between spending on luxury and over consumption. Over consumption could be-
Christine H.: Kendra!
Kendra Perry: I think I over consume! Oh my god! I think I spend too much money on random shit! Oh my gosh
Christine H.: [crosstalk]
Kendra Perry: This is hitting my soul right now.
Amber Dugger: Heres where you can determine if it is or not.
Kendra Perry: Okay.
Amber Dugger: This hand cream that I don't really use, it was a gift actually, but if I had purchased this and it sat here never used. I never used it because I didn't like the ingredients in it, this would be over consumption. Because I bought it but don't use it, don't care about it, don't prioritize it. Now if I have a 30$ german notebook that has fancy paper in it, and it feels amazing and it works really well with my 100$ fountain pen. But if I use it and it brings me joy and I hear the scratch of the golden nib onto this beautiful linen paper, and it gives me that spark, that gratitude, that feeling of heart coherence, then it's absolutely not over consumption, it's luxury. Over consumption can be a three dollar tube of cream and 130$ worth of stationary can be luxury.
So just ask yourself before you purchase your next item, will I prioritize the use of this item, will I enjoy this item, is this something that I will want to have in my life, do I have the space for it? If any of those are no, ask yourself if you really need it. Because there's no reason spending money on something you don't care about, but it is important to spend on the things that you do.
Kendra Perry: You just made me feel really good for buying a 6000$ infrared sauna.
Amber Dugger: Good.
Kendra Perry: That's not over consumption that is luxury [crosstalk]
Christine H.: I have so much space in my bedroom, I'm like it would be super nice to have that sauna in there.
Kendra Perry: It's the best thing ever.
Christine H.: But for example, like just a silly example, and people probably aren't gonna understand, but I got a pair of underwear. It just had the top was available here in Luxembourg, but the bottom was nowhere to be found in my size, so I had to order it from [inaudible]. So the bottom alone is 56 pounds and then the shipping was 27. So in the end I spent 80 pounds, I don't even wanna know what that is in dollars on a thong. And I'm like, "should I do this?" In the end it looks gorgeous and when I wear it [inaudible] its amazing. Its super amazing and when I wear it, obviously I'm not only wearing that, like I wear clothes. But I wear it when-
Amber Dugger: But do you see this glowing emitting from you, and this energy and just this like lightness and like it just brings you up. And that's so important for us to give ourselves these things.
Christine H.: And when I do a deal, when I know that I go to a meeting that I have to close a deal, you can bet that's what I wear. Because it just uplifts everything for me. Everyone has their thing whether it's a family pen, whether it is a infrared sauna, whether it is, well anyway it doesn't matter. You're completely right that, you know, spend your money there instead of cheaper stuff that doesn't make you happy actually.
Amber Dugger: Yeah or expensive stuff that doesn't make you happy-
Christine H.: Yeah
Amber Dugger: And cheap old stuff can make you very happy.
Christine H.: True true.
Amber Dugger: Like this ruler, I love this ruler. [inaudible] but I have it on my desk [crosstalk].
Kendra Perry: I love that you made that distinction because I was actually thinking the other day, I'm like, "man, I spend a lot of money". But I spend a lot of money on my health, you know, my health is really important to me. I buy high quality supplements, I buy crazy light machines, I buy all kinds of stuff, but I use it all and in the end it helps me feel good energy wise and so now I feel a little bit better about spending money on that stuff.
Christine H.: But you also have a budget on your supplements, I don't know, right.
Amber Dugger: Sure, so the other component of this is also recognizing that these things require resources. So this is where it goes back to looking and assessing what is it that I really need to be my best self, to be energized, to have that ability to wake up in the morning and feel ready to tackle the day ahead of me. As you get more clear on that, then writing it down, assessing how much it will cost, is important because then you can put it into the revenue calculator, you can see how much you wanna make and then you can start making plans to hit and exceed that number. We all have the ability to do this and every single person can do this. Its just a matter of us taking this into our own hands and stop being bullied by an industry and also by this perception that we're not good with money.
I just have to touch on this because this always bothered me when I was in college. I was one of the only girls in my finance major, and I was surrounded by a lot of really big egos. They all wanted wall street investors. I had no desire to be a wall street investor. I saw it as a big hoax and really you can put your money in index funds and beat most of the investors 99% of the time. So the professor walked in one day and said, "Alright this is the advanced level investing course", there's all these guys that are getting ready to take there series 7. And he said, "okay, half of you in this room is gonna fail before mid-term, so I'm gonna share the most important thing you need to know to accumulate wealth in about five minutes before we move on to the other areas that will not help you nearly as much as this one tip." And I'm looking around and guys are just like whatever. I'm thinking, "did I hear this right? Why is not everyone taking out their pen and paper and writing this down?"
It was that, it was to put your money in index funds, because as history states, the market continues to grow and unless we have a huge crash, which if we have a huge crash everything will crash not just certain things, everything is gonna crash.so by putting it into something that you know is increasing in value steadily over time, why wouldn't you do that, right? And you don't have to do anything. Its super cheap, you don't have to pay for someone to do that. So I knew that there was something bigger that I wanted to do with my education. But I saw these, mostly guys, want to show how smart they were.
Now this is just my perception, but from my experience this is what was happening. And so they would go around and even in corporate, when I was in corporate, I would see the whole picture, I'd be like okay "we just need to spend less money or we need to make more money". That's really as simple as it gets here, right? Instead, they would be like, "oh well we have to look at this ratio, we have to look at this and we have to look at this performance index and all this stuff." And its like okay, but you're not actually doing anything to fix the big problem which is we have no cash.
So I say all this because if you feel confused about money, or you feel like when someone talks about money that their talking about all these really big things and confusing what's shorts and stocks and puts and all this stuff. I'm not speaking for the person talking about this, however, in general, my experience has been that this is to show how smart they are about it and how dumb you are. You're not. Money is very simple. If you have money, and you want to spend less than you have, and if you something cost more than you have, don't spend it. That's as simple as it gets. I say this because its become more and more evident to me that the deepest reason people don't look at it is they don't wanna appear stupid, they don't wanna appear like they don't know what they're talking about.
I encourage you to start educating yourself and just looking and reading blog articles and possibly picking up this book and Ramit Sethi's book is hands down one of my favorite personal finance books, I'll Teach You To Be Rich. That's why I have not written a book, because he wrote it. Everything he wrote I'm like, "Yes! Yes!" I had a chance to meet him last year and I told him, I was like, "I love what you wrote. If everyone would read that book they would be in such a better state of mind about money, because you make it so approachable."
Kendra Perry: Yeah, and one of the first things I did after reading this book was set up index funds. My boyfriend loved that you said that because I think people think investing is really complicated. And I know people are paying really high management fees to get a person to manage their investments when really that person is gonna lose against the computer algorithm every time. So, I think [inaudible] is really important, its really affordable and over the long term it makes you significantly more money.
Amber Dugger: Heck yes sister!
Kendra Perry: Yeah![crosstalk]
Christine H.: Amazing! So I can, just personally again, we emphasize and totally vouch for Amber and her service. Its been a game changer for me, I think it was literally the first step that changed everything, myself included because then I read the Margaret Lynch book and then I read Joe Dispenza's Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself. When channel all of these together it changes you as a person and you know what to do, you're not afraid of money which is helpful if you want to make money. Its life changing. So I highly, highly suggest having just a chat with Amber if you are feeling like I did in the beginning or like any of the scenarios that we discussed today. So Amber just quickly let us know if we have people who are like "okay, I am ready, I want to face this, I want to be happy, I really want to know what to do." How can they get in touch with you?
Amber Dugger: Oh well first of all thank you for saying that, I really do appreciate it. My mission is really to make my business [inaudible]. I want this to not be an issue. The best way to get a hold of me is first to download the calculator, you'll get lots of information on how to take that further.
Christine H.: [crosstalk]Where can people find it?
Amber Dugger: Yes, it's just my website amberdugger.com. The other place to go would be my free community in Facebook, its called Sweet Life Purpose for Money. In there, there's all sort of resources and you can ask questions there and then there's a way to book a call on my website as well and its just amberdugger.com/workwithme.
Kendra Perry: Awesome. That's the first thing I'm gonna do after this call is I'm gonna go download your probability calculator and I'm like, "okay I gotta get more organized, I need to know my numbers, I love this." I actually love numbers. I never thought I did, but they kind of tingle me a little bit.
Christine H.: They turn me on when I get them in my bank account.
Kendra Perry: Oh yeah!
Amber Dugger: Well ladies, thank you so much for having me. Its been such a pleasure.
Christine H.: Absolutely
Kendra Perry: Thank you so much
Christine H.: Thank you so much. And you guys don't forget to leave us a five star review on Itunes. And-
Kendra Perry: Five star!
Christine H.: We will talk to you in two weeks. So thanks for coming and listening and watching and keep doing this.
Kendra Perry: Good words of advice.
Christine H.: Alright. [crosstalk] alright you guys thanks for listening and talk to you soon! Bye!
Tools mentioned in this episode:
- Hashimoto Protocol by Izabella Wentz
-The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz
About Brendan Vermiere:
Brendan began his career as a personal trainer and nutritionist at the age of 19. He is now an Integrative Clinician and Functional Practitioner specializing in complex chronic disease. He loves all things holistic health and fitness and has many fitness, nutrition, and clinical credentials. He is the owner and founder of the virtual integrative clinic, Metabolic Solutions LLC. Brendan is also the current AFDNP Director for Functional Diagnostic Nutrition. In his free time he enjoys expanding his education, studying philosophy, writing, reading, anything outdoors, and anything that expands the mind and soul 🙂
Contact Brendan Vermiere:
Kendra Perry: Hello, hello everyone. Welcome to the 360 Health Biz Podcast. I'm Kendra Perry and hanging out with my friends. Number one is my number one or number two, Christine Hansen, looking sexy, beautiful, unbelievably attractive as always, and I know she loves this intro.
Christine H.: I do. I do. It makes my life really ... It's amazing. I have an impeccable style in clothing, which is why Kendra and I are completely matched up today.
Kendra Perry: We are matched up today. Awesome. It's like we planned it or something, hey? Cool, well we have a really good show coming up for you today. We're gonna get nerdy because we're hanging out with Brendan Vermeire and he is super intelligent, super smart. We're gonna be talking about autoimmune conditions and working with clients who have different autoimmune diseases and conditions, which is pretty important because it's a pretty common thing going on in today's society. So, Brendan, amazingly, started his career at 19, which blows our mind, because I know me and Christine at 19 were dancing on the bar in white T-shirts.
Christine H.: [inaudible] Reminder at least, so it's painful.
Brendan V.: Where are those pictures for the throwback Thursday?
Christine H.: On Facebook right now!
Kendra Perry: Yeah, I know I actually posted my first Facebook profile picture after I got inspired by Christine's. Yours is like, you wasted at a bar and I'm in a green leprechaun costume, making a pretty stunning pose, I'd have to say.
Anyways let's get back on track here. Brendan is an Integrative Clinician and Functional Practitioner, specializing in complex chronic disease. He loves all things ballistic health fitness and has many fitness nutrition and clinical credentials. He is the owner and founder of Virtual Integrative Clinic Metabolic Solutions. He is also the current AFDNP Director for Functional Diagnostic Nutrition. He loves expanding his education, studying philosophy, writing, reading, anything outdoors and expanding his mind and soul.
So Welcome Brendan! Thank you for being here. Welcome to the show.
Brendan V.: Absolutely, Happy to be here, hanging out with you both.
Kendra Perry: Awesome, so today we are going to be talking about autoimmune conditions. Can you tell us a little bit about, maybe for some of our newbie people, what is an autoimmune condition, why should we car about it and, people are going to be coming across it a lot, so what should they be looking out for?
Brendan V.: Yeah, absolutely. Autoimmunity is one of those weird ass phenomemon where the immune system starts destroying the bodies own tissues. Autoimmune, the name kind of explains it. I think people don't realize, how big of a problem it is. When you look at the disease statics for America, we all know cardiovascular disease is number 1, but cancer is listed at number 2. The reason why is because all types are cancer are collectively put into the same statistic bucket.
The thing is, what people don't know, is if you took all the different diagnosed... which first off autoimmunity is horrendously under diagnosed, horrendously under screened for, under considered, but even still if you added up all the diagnosed conditions of autoimmunity and put them all together it would our rank cancer.
So we really are in an autoimmune crisis, that's just not public knowledge yet. It's just not commonly known, but it's extremely common. We have to realize that a lot of these mechanisms, they have these kind of root caused, contributing factors and it's just a matter of, Alright you have autoimmunity. I also like to think of like a forest fire. There's a forest fire raging in your body. Which trees are being burnt, whichever trees are going to be the weak link, whatever is most susceptible to being burnt, whatever is not as resilient. It's a huge problem.
Christine H.: [inaudible] Go ahead Kendra.
Kendra Perry: I was just going to say, can we dig into some of those root causes. What would you say are the primary things that are causing these different various types of autoimmune conditions?
Brendan V.: Obviously in the functional integrative space, we're all pretty dead set on the idea of [inaudible] hyperpermeability, kind of setting the stage for autoimmunity. Which you know some people say it's an absolute, it has to be there otherwise it doesn't happen. Others say, well most of the time, either way. The majority of the time we need to be looking at the gut health and the intestinal hyperpermeability but more so, it's going to be like, what are the triggers, what things are causing the immune system to freak out.
That's where you go to our conventional physician and they pretty much say, alright you're just one of those unlucky bastards, where your own immune system is destroying your own tissues, we have no explanation for why this ever happens, there is nothing you can do about it, we just need to put you on some kind of drug to manage your symptoms for the rest of your life. If it gets bad enough, we'll go in and do surgery and remove the tissue.
Which is frankly unacceptable. I get really fired up with that, because in reality there is tons of mechanisms and tons of contributing factors whether it's some kind of pathogen like Lyme disease or Babesiosis or it could be something as simple as toxins, like Bisphenol A, which makes plastic malleable and flexible. We consume tons of BPA and tons of these chemicals. When it gets into the blood stream, like BPA will bind to an estrogen receptor and the immune system doesn't know what the fuck that is. It's like Hey let's go attack that. If that receptor that it's stuck on. The cell is going to get damaged and it starts triggering this inflammatory cascade and pop, pop, pop, it all just goes up in flames.
Christine H.: I also think a lot of people don't know that they have an autoimmune disease. Like they know they have a disease like Hashimoto's or Rheumatosis or something like that but they don't actually know that it is their immune system attacking their own thing. They literately get the name and they get the prescription. Do you sometimes have people who you're working with or who inquire and then you take an intake form and they actually don't know that it is an autoimmune disease that they have.
Brendan V.: Absolutely. That's kind of another thing with our health care system. It's not an educational system and it's like, how do you overcome disease without some education and without some self ownership. You got to take ownership. This is a thing going on in my body, I need to understand what it is, why it happens, how to fix it, what can I do, what do I have control of to positively influence the situation.
Obviously we all know that's not how it is. It's like, we think you have this, hears your medication, get it filled up the street at the pharmacy and that's all there is to it. A lot of people don't know [inaudible] I'm not licensed, nothing. Your immune system is destroying this part of your body, so you tell me what that means to you.
Kendra Perry: It is crazy. It is sad, that ultimately a lot of people who have long standing autoimmune conditions that doesn't go treated with some sort of effective treatment route, they're going to get parts of their body removed. Parts of their colon, maybe their thyroid is going to get removed. It's just crazy because it's not the organ or tissues fault, it's the immune system and you need to figure out, what is driving that.
Let's talk a little bit more about some of the non-negotiable things you always do, with people who have autoimmune conditions. What are the things that they need to be doing or considering, if they want to see any type of moving on that needle.
Brendan V.: Especially with the demographic I work with, I pretty much assume...where it's like in the court system your innocent until proven guilty, in my clinic you're guilty until I can prove you're innocent. With my clients I am pretty much going to assume they have some degree of autoimmunity and I'm looking for it with my testing. If I can't find it, I can't find any data that proves that they are autoimmune, I might be a little more relaxed, but as soon as I see the evidence, it's game on.
We have to be that much more strict. With diet, if I see the antibodies high, we're going autoimmune paleo for now. Not that you have to be 100% that strict for the rest of your life, but we gotta get control of this situation. Let's buckle down. The thing with autoimmunity, there is so many factors that could be contributing to it. We can't be messing around with, lets leave this variable in but lets play with this variable. No we gotta blank slate that shit, start from ground zero and build up, until we get those antibodies negative. When it comes to finding like a maintenance lifestyle, you have to do the same in reverse. Introduce one thing at a time. Your antibodies are remaining negative, so we're good, Oh they're starting to go up, Stop, back up. It's an honest process to say the least.
Kendra Perry: What's some of the testing you use to measure that autoimmune activity?
Brendan V.: My standard 3 tests I run on every client that signs up is an, dutch hormone test, an organic acid test, from great plains and then pretty extensive blood work, blood chemistry. I build custom panels. I'll use the [inaudible] tumor from vibrant wellness or the [inaudible] from BSL labs. Pretty regularly as well.
With the blood work that I do, I like to use the little cheap blood test that's and AA or antinuclear antibody test. It's like $14 and if it's positive, we know there is some degree of autoimmune activity. Then too, every blood test I do I am looking at their thyroid, I am looking at their thyroid antibodies. In my opinion, anytime you do a thyroid test, you gotta look at the antibodies. Always, Always, because 84+% of all hyperthyroid cases are, it's not just regular old my thyroid is underactive, it's Hashimoto's, and that's just not looked for enough.
Once I do see any evidence of autoimmunity I'll usually go ahead and run the [inaudible], which is a multiple tissue antibody test. Where basically we are looking for what tissues are being attacked and destroyed. People get really caught up on, well I have celiac and that's a totally different thing than rheumatoid. Not really, it's more similar than not. There are things provoking your immune system to destroy your own tissue, it's just what's the weak link. We have to identify it and trap it.
Christine H.: Do you have clients that have multiple autoimmune, I don't want to say diseases, but maybe building sites? Where they have their thyroid being attacked at the same time as their pancreas [inaudible]?
Brendan V.: Absolutely. That's where I don't think clients, patients, need to get too caught up on the label, the diagnoses, it's more just understanding. This is a complex multi faceted process that's going on in my body, so what approach do I need to take to put out all these fires. There's a raging fire in my thyroid, there's a small fire in my joint tissue. Either way, we got to put out the fire. But yes the most recent, [inaudible] I ran, the thyroid antibodies were elevated, which corresponded with the blood work, blood panel, that we already did. Also like her collagen had antibodies against it. Her connective tissue being attacked and destroyed. Would any rheumatologist diagnose that as some type of connective tissues disease. Probably not, because it was only yay high, but it's still there, it's still relevant.
Kendra Perry: That's really good point. I have a big issue with conventional medicine, is that there is this huge spectrum of things that can be happening in between, of when you start having that activity in your body that your immune system goes haywire, starts attacking your system and between when you eventually get diagnosed, which could be 10 or 20 or even 30 years after that process is started. And most people aren't getting the proper blood work done. When you're talking about getting antibodies for thyroid testing, few doctors actually run that. Let's say you have a 30 year span of someone getting their antibodies checked every year, you actually might see those slowly increasing over time. At some point they get out of that "normal range" and suddenly that person gets that Hashimoto's diagnoses and it kind of leads people to believe that it happened over night. Like I was healthy and now I'm sick, but meanwhile it's actually been developing for years. It's just that our system is not really set up to detect that.
Brendan V.: One of my best success stories, best clients and also really good friend at this point. You can't go through an intensive healing process without getting close. She first came to me, like Oh I just want to do [inaudible] testing and I'm like, "Hi, who are you, why". She had told me, "I was diagnosed hyperthyroid 11 years ago, I was put on Synthroid, I took myself off Synthroid, I feel awful." The very first thyroid test I did, she had never had antibodies tested and the first one we did he TPAO was over 1,000.
Kendra Perry: Whoa...That's crazy.
Brendan V.: Literately it only said over 1,000. It didn't go any higher. So I don't know, it could've been 1300, for all I know.
Christine H.: That's insane.
Brendan V.: That is the perfect example of like, we know statistically 84% of all hyperthyroid cases are Hashimoto's. She got diagnosed 11 years ago, this is a forest fire that started beyond 11 years ago. 11 years ago is when she got diagnosed with hyperthyroid. Which really means the autoimmunity has been gone on since birth, 20 years, it's been goin on for a long time. I was the first person to access the wild fire. The beautiful part we put her on a functional, root cause protocol, we dropped those antibodies from 1,000 to 300 in 8 weeks.
Kendra Perry: Oh, Wow, that's crazy.
Brendan V.: Yeah, Insane.
Christine H.: Let me ask you a question. If you have some people you know are super sick. Their body is weak, they might have done tons of detox's, which might not happen [inaudible], because we talked about it last [inaudible], we talked about how detoxification can be dangerous if you are not fit and you don't know what you are doing. I have a lot of friends who are very weak. They come in, their body is not in the best of shape and I know if I push them too hard, it would be too much.
So how do you handle that? When you have someone you can see that their body is going from beyond struggling to actually being super exhausted and about to just throw in the towel anyway?
Brendan V.: That is one thing that kind of makes it a little bit hard. You've got to be working with someone that really knows what they're doing, because...I don't know, on the one hand the functional integrative whole space industry, there's a lot of beauty in the fact that it's not monopolized. Because anything that gets monopolized gets corrupted. At the same time it also means that it's harder to know, can I trust who I'm working with, how do you qualify? Like somebody who really knows their shit. I know, for me, I like the nitty gritty complex people.
One of my current clients, who is Lyme, mole, Hashimoto's, everything is wrong with her. It's like we got to take it one step at a time, and when I'm looking through her initial testing, I'm looking for every indicator that might tell me her body's not ready for x, y or z. Such as like, everybody loves giving people glutathione, because glutathione detoxes everything. You give glutathione to the wrong person, at the wrong time, you will destroy them.
Kind of like with remineralization, you can't just start releasing a ton of toxins or heavy metals into the system, if their body is not prepared to conjugate and detox those. It does, it gets pretty complicated.
Kendra Perry: I love how you just said remineralization, you probably saw me light up. I love talking about minerals.
Brendan V.: We get to nerd out in like t-minus one month.
Kendra Perry: I know, I know, me and Brendan are doing a webinar together for Functional Diagnostic [inaudible] Mineral Analysis. I'm really excited about that.
Christine H.: That will be awesome.
Brendan V.: That'll be really good. I had to say it I knew you'd light up.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, I'm like, let's talk about minerals, but no let's not talk about minerals. Let's talk about toxins because I know, obviously we live in a world where we're getting exposed to heavy metals, chemicals, pesticides, all this crap, drugs, all this stuff. I feel it's a bit hard sometimes to convince people that this is actually playing a major role in what's going on with you. Maybe sometimes I wonder if it's playing the biggest role.
Can you speak a little bit to that and how metals and chemicals might play a role in somebody's autoimmune condition.
Brendan V.: I agree, I think that is probably the biggest offender that is probably driving a lot of this. We don't really have, we're in that early stage right now, where those of us, really it's only the Functional Integrative field that is leading that charge. Because that's what we do, we're the nerds that are trying to figure out, what thins are affecting our health negatively. What can we do to fix that. Period. That's the name of this game [inaudible]. I think the chemicals and things like [inaudible] electromagnetic fields. I've had the pleasure of hanging out with our friend Laura Adler and our friend Nicholas Beano, who are 2 figures who are each kind of in the nerd bubble of spreading awareness on that topic.
The chemical topic, my God, there's, I'm trying to borrow from Laura's power point presentation, 86,000 chemicals that are registered in the US, for chemical manufacturing. Basically none of them have truly been thoroughly tested for human safety. The toxicology is more about, if we give you a dose, this big, of this one thing does it immediately cause acute organ failure. That's the standard we're going off.
When in reality we are breathing in, smothering ourselves, Ingesting, thousands of chemicals, all day, every day and these things can have synergistic, compounding effects. Compound is literately to make more intense. That's what the definition of compound is. What happens when you compound thousand of chemicals in your biology that has not evolved, with these chemicals. That's where if you look at, not to go too hippy, but we got to talk about the planet too. You look at the living planet report, we've killed off, half of everything that lives on this planet in the past 40 years.
How? Well look at how the timeline adds up with chemical manufacturing. The deer outside, they don't get to filter their water like I do. I can educate myself and do something abo it. Where all these poor plants and animals, they're stuck with, I either need to evolve my organs to know what to do with all this crap or I'm going to die off. And that's what's happening. Everything is just dying off.
Kendra Perry: That's really interesting to think about and I really wonder what's going to happen to humans. I look at children's health and I think there is something to be said about general toxicity right. It's just accumulating over time. We have these kids who are born with diseases you wouldn't typically see until later in life and I think that's a huge red flag.
Christine H.: I think it was an article that said if you're a woman, actually not just my daughter, but my daughters, granddaughter, is still going to be effected by things that effected my DNA. Because you eggs are basically being influenced with that. It's not just one generation I think it's two or even three generations that are going to be effected by it.
Kendra Perry: It's so true because the eggs, it's like if you have your kid and if that kid is a daughter, it's her DNA passing on to her next child as well. So there is 2 or 3 generations in there that are getting effected by this. It's not something that's just going to go away with one generation. It's going to take a lot of work and education. Not everyone is going to up for it, I don't think.
Brendan V.: At the end of the day, maybe society is more sophisticated and complicated, but it's Darwinism is at full effect all the time. At this point, we're not evolving we're kind of devolution is really occurring. I think everybody has heard the statistic, about, you can measure 200+ chemicals in the placenta of a newborn. I feel like everybody's heard that statistic and it's true. We are born at birth, toxic and it's only getting worse.
That's weird too, a lot of these chemicals are damaging our DNA. They form these quinone and these toxic compounds that directly destroy our DNA, which then starts causing all of these mutagenic effects with our DNA and susceptibility to disease. It's nasty. I honestly hate to say it, but the more awoke you get with all this stuff, the more it's like we're all kind of fucked and we need to de-fuck ourselves.
Kendra Perry: I love that!
Christine H.: [inaudible]
Brendan V.: There's no other way to put it. People need to wake up and realize we are on a trajectory of destroying our species, destroying our planet. I was just having this conversation yesterday. In reality, we are all pretty self interested organisms. Like if an organism didn't have the inherent desire, if you want to use the word desire, that instinct to propel us into the future to continue. Nothing would exist.
The number one inherent desire of any organism, that we want to continue, we want to evolve, we want to reproduce. The health crisis, some of us are going to do what's needed to stay healthy and survive. Meanwhile the planet, the rock, that we're all just walking on is just being destroyed underneath our feet.
It's honestly a pretty bleak outlook but that's where we just gotta keep talking about it. People need to stop looking at their phone and realize what's going on.
Kendra Perry: It is cool to see, I do feel like there is a lot of organizations coming up. I do feel like there are certain things about this that are coming to the mainstream. I see certain mainstream comedies joking about being gluten free, for example. You start to see these things coming to the mainstream and maybe they're making the way into comedy, but it's a thing right? It's a movement. I think you just helped me come up with my new tagline. "Kendra Perry Nutrition, How to De-Fuck yourself."
Brendan V.: Yeah, how to unfuck your life.
Kendra Perry: I love that. Can we talk a little bit about, some of the mindset things you need to work with, when you're working with clients with autoimmune conditions. Some of the emotional stuff that is going on with these types of people.
Brendan V.: That's something I'm honestly kind of trying to navigate a better solution for, with my business motto. I feel like I need to start offering some serious psychological, spiritual based coaching because a lot of times...I look at health like a yin yang, if you got the psychology and physiology, where they are swirling together, they drastically influence one another. The physiology is off it messes up your psychology, your psychology is off, it messed up your physiology.
At the same time, if you're trying to fix all of it, it gets so overwhelming. When you're dealing with clients, patients, that are really jacked up, physiologically, but also kind of psychologically you have to pick your battle, create some separation. [inaudible]. You're exactly right the mindset is huge. That's where I think it is the responsibility of the coach, the practitioner, whatever, you got to be trained in habit based coaching and behavioral modification and neurolinguistics programing. You got to be able to navigate the fragility of the ego and navigate the fragility of their psychology.
That's some hard shit. Meanwhile you're trying to fix all the complicated metabolic shit. It's damn near impossible sometimes.
Christine H.: I just call it resilience, it's one of those hip words right now. I just say we're going to coach up your resilience. Basically it's jut tearing down their shit.
Kendra Perry: I think people tell themselves a lot of stories. I'm always like what's the story you're telling yourself about your health. I mean I've done it to, because I've had my own health journey. It's just like my energy is never good, I'm just really sick, I'm just never going to get there, it's never going to happen for me. You have to really try and unwind those stories that people are telling themselves. Also try and get people in a place of personal responsibility. I think that's the biggest thing. People need to be responsible for their own health. As coaches we are here to guide people and tell them what to do, but ultimately their health is not my responsibility, it's theirs. I think that's hard shift for some people to make. We definitely in a current medical system, there is no personal responsibility.
Christine H.: It's like here's your pill, we take care of you. Then you have people who are like, please help me, I will pay you a shit load, but I'm not prepared to not eat gluten.
Brendan V.: That's the thing, people need to realize, you manifest your own reality, through the projection of your own beliefs. Then you got to get into your own belief system. What is your belief system? I love that. What is the story that you're telling yourself. There's a crisis of victim mentality in today's society. It's not that everybody wants to be a victim necessarily, but everybody wants affirmation, everybody wants attention. We need that, we are social creatures, so we need a certain amount of societal attention and affirmation, even if it's negative like, I have this disease, I'm a victim, me to, I'm a victim. It's like are you owning your shit and are you doing something. Where as, in the clinical world, I can hold up a piece of paper, a lab test that says this is what's wrong with you physiologically. Where as, psychologically I just need to hold up a mirror and say What do you see. Let's get raw, let's get honest what to you see.
Kendra Perry: I love that you bring up victim mode, because it's such a disease. I see it a lot. Definitely when I'm screening people, when determining whether to work with them or not. If I see they're in victim mode I won't work with them because I can't help them. They have other work to do.
I recently just kicked a woman out of my group membership program, because she was just severe victim mode, no responsibility, shutting down everything anyone said. Just totally toxic, like a virus. It doesn't feel good to kick someone out, especially when you know they need help. Sometimes you are not the person to help them, they need to deep emotional healing right?
Brendan V.: That's the thing, those of us in this work are generally impavs and very empathetic, we have big heart for people. We want to help everybody, we want to save everybody. Sometimes Darwinism needs to play out. That sounds pretty brutal. The people that choose to drown in two feet of water, because they refuse to stand up, that's Darwinism. That is going to due off, that's going to fade out and those that actually choose to evolve. I'm a pretty spiritual dude and I love to kind of combine spirituality. It's just like the Frank Stark Reality of Evaluation. We're just a bunch of meat coated skeletons, walking around on a rock, falling through infinite. You gotta own your own shit, You gotta take responsibility for your reality because that's all there is. All there is.
Christine H.: I love it! How did that happen, from going to [inaudible] to falling through holes and stuff.
Kendra Perry: It's so cool though. Own your own shit. The truth is you form your own reality. I see a lot of people who don't realize that. I see those people, who I call them sols, because they just suck at life, and everything just keeps happening to them. When you actually take a deep look, you realize that they are bringing all that drama into their lives. Maybe they thrive on it, maybe it makes them feel important, maybe it gives them something to complain about or something to distract them from something else hat is going on. I feel like when I made that shift, I feel like I used to be a sol back in the day and I read a few books and started to see, I form and create my own reality. I could totally manifest a better life for myself and when I made that shift, my life got intimately better.
Brendan V.: Step 1 is self awareness, become aware yourself. Then you just start observing. It's kind of the scientific method, You watch, you observe, you make inferences, you conduct experiences. That's all it is to be successful in life. You have to study the situation, see what works, see what doesn't work, of course correct. How do I get from point A to point B. You have to start with staring at yourself in a mirror and getting pretty brutally honest. Don't assume anything, don't assume you are right about anything. You have to question everything.
We live in a world today, we all have an ego. I think the ego is a very primordial, primal, had wired instinct. The ego is a mechanism of self interested that propels us onwards to propel us to be self interested so that we can survive and evolve. But in today's world abundance and seductive marketing the ego has just been seduced and it takes over. People are asleep at the wheel and the ego is driving. And they don't know that, they don't recognize it.
Kendra Perry: That's awesome! Coming back around to autoimmunity, do you think that it's possible to reverse autoimmunity. Have you seen that happen?
Brendan V.: Absolutely, what I love about working with autoimmunity is there is [inaudible] No functional [inaudible] approach. That's what is kind of beautiful about that, there is no other way, you have to do it the right way. That's what I love. You track those antibodies. When I'm working with an autoimmune client, I know our work is not done until we get the antibodies completely negative and then we have to figure out what level of compliance does it take to sustain that. Anybody with an autoimmune condition, they should be doing the antibody testing at least annually for the rest of their life. Just to make sure, How'd I do this year, I was kind of lazy with my diet and lifestyle and self care this year, Oh crap my antibodies are up.
You're always going to be susceptible . You don't cure it, you just put it in remission and you keep it there.
Kendra Perry: I think that's a very good point.
Christine H.: I love this, I'm thinking of what else you could teach our audience, but I think we pretty much covered what autoimmunity is, what Brendan's first steps are, the testing, mindset is a huge one. [inaudible] I think that's huge. Right?
Kendra Perry: Obviously it requires a lot of work, but if people are up for it, I think there's a lot of hope right?
Brendan V.: Absolutely. It's easy to get caught up on the physiology the hard science, but ultimately you can't heal without really addressing your own psychology, your own beliefs, owning your own story, choosing to do something about it. That's something I do see a lot. You work with people who are really physically ill and obviously that has hade a huge impact on their mental health, but sometimes it is almost easier, the body is extremely complex, but believe it or not sometimes, it's easier to fix the body and the mind starts following. Even the most physically ill people, their body is usually more resilient than their minds.
I hate to say it, but their mind is extremely fragile, extremely weak. I don't say that to pic on people, because we're all born into this world, a blank slate. Our brain is the soft, wet piece of clay that is going to be malleable and molded by nature, nurture and that forms your neuro networks, your neuroplasticity, your belief system.
We are not born, and we don't choose our belief system. Our belief system is ingrained into us, from day one, from parents and society. That's what makes becoming an adult, which I've gone through in the past decade, of High I'm a child and now I'm not, what the fuck is going on.
Let me revaluate everything I think I know. Unfortunately I don't think that everybody goes through that. I think some people are consumed with, this is my reality, this is my belief system and they are closed off. They don't realize how much more there is. They don't realize that they've been confused by the smoke. That's where the book "4 Agreements", have you ever read that?
Kendra Perry: I've heard of it. I think I own it. I should look it up.
Brendan V.: Everybody should read that book.
Kendra Perry: That was actually going to be my next question, what are your favorite mindset books. What would be your go to books for practitioners who maybe want to learn a little bit more about autoimmune conditions?
Brendan V.: For autoimmunity? I'm looking at my book collection. The Hashimoto's Protocol from Isabella Wentz. Obviously, New York Times Best Seller. That's a great example right there. She is a Doctor of Pharmacy turns Integrative Functional whatever, but that's a fantastic book. Anybody with a thyroid condition should read that. It's basically lik a blueprint of all the stuff we do professionally. No I don't think anybody should try and navigate their autoimmunity without professional help. But absolutely should be empowered. The other ones would be Dr. Tom O'Brien, is the shit. His "You can fix your Brain" and "Autoimmune Solution". Great books! My stepmom is a great example. She can't just hear it from me, it doesn't work if it's coming from the son, what do I know. But they gave her that book and she's like "Oh my gosh", I need to show my doctor this. I'm like, you can, they're not going to give a fuck, but you can.
Kendra Perry: That's awesome! Brendan, where can people find out more about you? Where can they connect with you?
Brendan V.: I'm all over. I got my Metabolic Solutions, LLC. Instagram page, Holistic salvage Instagram page, Metabolic Solutions Facebook page and then of course my website, Metabolicsolutions.com. Those would be the main places, good starting point. Linkedin, I'm all over the place.
Kendra Perry: Awesome! Thank you for being here with us and having this very interesting conversation that took a few turns I was not expecting.
Brendan V.: I really enjoyed it. I'm happy to be here. I like to have good authentic, real conversations and I really think our society craves that. There is so much fake noise, that just bombards our senses all the time. So people rave that, they crave, like let's get real. I think this was a goo convo. I really enjoyed it and thanks for having me.
Christine H.: Well so did we!
Kendra Perry: Awesome, I'll see you guys again in two weeks for another awesome episode of the 360 Health Biz Podcast. Thanks Brendan and thank you to my unbelievably sexy cohost.
Christine H.: [inaudible] My internet sucks, I'm going to get a grip on that for next time. But if you learned one thing during this episode that you didn't know, just one thing, then please go to Itunes and leave us a 5 star review. Super, Super Stoked. Go over to our website, you get all the links in there, the show notes and you can also watch our video if you are just listening to us and you want to see how amazing and beautiful we all look, then you can do that too.
Kendra Perry: Okay thanks everyone! Talk to you soon!
Brendan V.: Thank you! Bye.
Christine H.: Bye!
5 THINGS WE WISH WE KNEW AS NEW HEALTH COACHES
This episode is our top advice for new health coaches to have health coach success and getting started as a health coach. There is so much we wish we new when we were starting out like how does one go about making money as a health coach, how to create health coaching programs, how to make money online, how to become an NTP or even how to make money as a fitness coach.
Kendra: Hey, hey, everyone! Welcome to another episode of "The 360 Help Biz Podcast", I am Kendra Perry and I am back from Costa Rica. I missed my beautiful co-host Christine, so we're pretty stoked.
Christine: Likewise, my sister.
Kendra: Hello, hello. We've been apart and it was very sad but we're back and we'll be back together for the next bunch of episodes, so don't worry neither of us are going anywhere. This episode I'm really excited to talk about, I think we both are because this is kind of like the hindsight episode. You know how everything is always more clear in hindsight? And we want to talk about some of the things we wish we knew when we were starting out as health coaches, so maybe that it well help you, the new health coach learn from our hindsight.
Christine: Yeah absolutely. It's also diving into our reason for starting this podcast in the first place and basically it's going to save you lots of time and money. It's a good one to listen to even if you've been in business for a long time. Sometimes we're just really great at having blind spots. [crosstalk].
Kendra: You know I'm really bad for not listening to my own advice. Sometimes I have an epiphany and I'm like, "Why am I doing that? I'm telling everyone not to do that and I just realized I am doing this." You know it's good to check in and remind yourself that-
Christine: You have to be on track.
Kendra: Before we get started I just wanted to read, we did get an awesome five star review. It was from "Anonymous", so if you want to leave us advice make sure to leave us your name so we can give you a shout out. This one is a quick one, it just says "Thanks, Kendra and Christine for all the amazing content that helps building a health coaching practice less overwhelming."
Christine: I love it.
Kendra: Thank you, Anonymous, we appreciate it. But yeah, we will read your five star review that you leave us on iTunes on air because we appreciate it so much because it's the best way to help us get out there and reach more people. and if you want to support us that's probably the best thing you can do.
Christine: Absolutely. Please go ahead there right now. You can press pause and just leave us an amazing review, and just say "This is a great show." And recommend it, or just say "It's great." Doesn't matter. [crosstalk] Just hit pause now and do it, it would make us very, very happy, genuinely.
Kendra: Very happy. Very happy. Like all warm and fuzzy inside.
Awesome, and so we actually do have a freebie for this episode. So, if you guys want to download that after the episode, you can just get that at 360healthbizpodcast.com/episode16. You can grab that there, and one more thing, we started an Instagram account and we only have 40 followers so far. We need more followers, so go follow us on Instagram if you're an Instagram person. We're posting our episodes, we're giving you lots of help and business tips there, our best stuff, so definitely give us a follow and let us know that you're there. Send us a DM or leave us a comment.
Christine: Yeah, and if you're wondering how we're doing all of this, stay tuned, we're going to give a behind the scenes to all our posts at some point. I'm not sure when, but at some point. And I cannot believe it's episode 16, it's crazy! How's that happened?
Kendra: I know, we're kind of rolling along here and it feels really good!
Christine: Yeah, no it's really good, and it's going to be even better. Especially today's episode, everyone. So, shall we get started?
Kendra: Yeah, lets get started. We're going to be talking about five things that we wish we knew then, that we know now, right, Christine?
Kendra: Yeah. And so, I think when you're starting out, it's overwhelming. You don't know where to focus your attention, you hear people talking about all these different things, and in the end... I know, me personally, I spent a lot of time working on things that I never did anything with, you know what I mean? That were kind of pointless, or I eventually realized didn't really matter.
Christine: Yeah, yeah.
Kendra: Just weren't really what I should have been focusing on.
Christine: And I think we're both very similar, in terms that we both love the online space, and we have the "shiny object syndrome", where we go after really good [search pages, right]? Especially at the beginning when you don't know what a search page is, what "copy" is, how you're craftily manipulated into things, it's just really easy to spend so much money on crap you really don't need. So, I think we're going to talk a little bit about that, and how we felt, how we've fallen- and still fall for things. I admire a great copy, it gets me every time. But I think we can help you a little bit by prioritizing what you really need and what you probably really don't.
Kendra: Totally. And the first one we're going to talk about actually may surprise you, because I think this is a cycle a lot of people get themselves into at the beginning, and it has a lot to do with imposter syndrome, I think.
Number one is your education, your health coaching actually matters less than you think it does. You're probably like "What the fuck, ladies? What do you mean, my education doesn't matter?" Yes it matters, you want to go get that education so you know how to be a health coach, but you don't need more education to get clients. And I think a lot of us in the beginning, we're like "Oh, well I just need to take this other course, I need to take this course in this, and this, and this, and then I can go out and get clients."
Christine: Absolutely. I think you need to be very clear on what your mission is, what level of difficulty you want from your client, but if we stick to the basics, a lot of people were unfortunately just raised in a very unhealthy environment, they don't have any good education. I always caught my clients who didn't know that they were sugar and ketchup, right? It's tomato [inaudible] So, I think you need to know what you want to do. But if you want to be a general health coach, you don't need to know all the bells and whistles of the body, you know? You know enough with your health code certification, obviously you need to look where to get certified at. But if you have a decent school, you know more than enough to help your normal, average person get much, much better by just using common sense most of the time.
Christine: And using your coaching skills and keeping them accountable. That's all you need. You do not need a gazillion billion other diplomas.
Kendra: Yeah, you don't need all those fancy letters behind your name. You love health, you're going to upgrade your education as you go because you enjoy it, but it shouldn't prevent you from going out and getting clients. Because the truth is, people don't choose to work with you based on your education, they choose to work with you because they like you, and they trust you, and they maybe see their story in yours. They think you have a cool personality, and you're fun, that's why they decide to work with you. It's not because you have 30 letters behind your name.
Christine: Yes. And I think you need to know what the level of your expertise is going to be, who you want to serve, and also nothing is going to trump the success that you will see with your clients. No course is going to give you the confidence that you would get after working with a certain number of clients in changing their lives. Doesn't matter if you spent 10k on the bells and whistles course that is giving you all the templates that you will need, if you don't have the experience working with clients and changing their lives.
So, having said that, Kendra and I have extensive education on different things. I think it's also because we choose to deliver at this certain level, and we also know that we choose a target audience that has more issues than your average person that wants to get healthy, that needs the support. So I think you need to know about that, you need to be clear, but even still, nothing has ever been as educational as working with people. By far I think the eye opening moment for me was this year in August 2018 when I went to the Mind Share conference, a conference where you have loads of really famous health people like Dr. Aaron Christensen, Jamie Jo Bergen, Izabella Wentz, all of these people, Mark Hyman was there. Big, big people in our industry. But what I learned is that they're all people. They're literally all people, so it's really important to stop thinking that you need to have a certain appearance somewhere, a certain matter that is going to elevate you to a certain status that is going to bring you more clients, because that's not what it is, it's the results.
Kendra: Yeah, and I love you bring that up, because obviously we get a bit nerdy on this podcast, we talk about some pretty nerdy stuff, but we do work with more complex cases. My typical client is the person who's been in and out of the medical system for 20 years, they already eat healthy, they're eating paleo, they're eating organic. They do yoga, they meditate, they're doing all the right things, but they feel like a pile of poo. So obviously I need a few more tools to help that person, over your client who's like "What? Ketchup doesn't have sugar in it? Huh?" Kind of a different clientele. And when you're starting out it's okay if you just want to take the basics, work with the people who just need to learn "Oh, going to bed at 3am is not healthy? What, Froot Loops for breakfast, that's not fiber?"
Kendra: You know, there's a big variability between who you might work with, and you want to know obviously who you're working with, and that brings us to our next thing that we wish we knew was to narrow down and get a niche. Because I know when I started out, I did try to go too general. I made a lot of "Five steps to take your health to the next level" and the stuff that doesn't really resonate with anyone.
Christine: No. It's true. Yeah, I think it's very scary, but truth be told "Health coach", what the hell? It's so bland and boring, and I know I'd probably be offending a lot of you, I don't really care because I know what works and I know what doesn't in the end. I've tried the whole thing, and it's definitely that the more niche you get, every marketing expert will tell you this, and it so counterintuitive, but it's absolutely true. You will be known for something, you can still take on other people, because people will notice that you can work on other things, and they will get in touch with you.
But especially, whether you are local or whether you're online, let's face it: Google is your best friend, and niching, that's what's going to get your clients. My organic reach is 80%, 80% find me from typing in "see expert" into Google. That's priceless, but if you type in "health coach" there's no way you're going to come up. Niching is scary, it's sometimes not clear, there are so many processes, and in that case I do advise that you work with someone who can bring you that clarity, because we sometimes don't see, what is it, the trees through the forest? The forest through the trees? I don't remember.
Kendra: Something like that.
Christine: So, sometimes it will help there. But for sure go with the niche. It might absolutely vouch for advice. If you've ever been doubting, go with niche.
Kendra: Totally. And we dug pretty deep into this, in I believe it was episode 3, our "Niche or Not to Niche" episode, so if you are still struggling at this point in your business journey, definitely go back and listen to that episode, because we kind of walk through the steps and dig a little bit deeper into it. You need to figure out who you're helping and think about what those people are searching for.
They're not looking for, like "I'm looking for a health coach to help me with my health." They're not searching for that, they're looking for "headache relief", they're looking for "Why is my stomach so bloated?" They're looking for "Why the fuck am I so tired all day?" That's what they're searching for. In Google or YouTube, wherever it is, in all their search engines, so you need to capitalize in all those search terms, and you can't do that when you have a really general topic and you're trying to help everyone. We mentioned it in that episode, I know we talked about how it's not a death sentence, it's not like "This is your niche and this is what you have to do for the rest of your life." Right? [crosstalk]
And I just did this in my business, I just recently switched from "female hormone imbalance" to "fatigue and energy" because my interests shifted, and you can totally do that. Just try to pick something that you want to stick with for six months, maybe a year, and then see how things go, you might discover other niches within that niche, right?
Christine: Exactly. And I think that's where the Golden Ticket is finally happening, when you know exactly "That's the type of client, so I get the best results." That's how they tick, that's how they work, whether it's men or women, whether it is within the category of men and women, an age group, a certain type of person, position, whatever it is you're golden.
Kendra: Yeah, totally. And you just gotta do it. You've got to rip the bandaid off, and yes it's scary, yes you feel like you're going to run away clients when you're desperate for clients, but it'll make everything easier. It'll make your copy easier, your marketing, your videos, everything you do within your business to try to get clients, it suddenly becomes more easier when you actually know who you're talking to.
Kendra: And I was very resistant to this in the beginning, too. So I know how you feel, if you're feeling that kind of itchy, scratchy feeling right now, I felt like it too, but once I figured out who I was talking to things started to flow a lot better.
Christine: Yeah, and get in touch with Kendra, she's had that experience. I was a little bit unclear on it but I think we're different in that type. I would say get in touch with either one of us that you think is going to help you, if you need a little bit more "kickass", maybe it's me at this point. If you need someone who really knows the struggle, then it's Kendra, but get in touch with us. Send us an email, connect with us, we're normal people. [crosstalk]
Kendra: Totally, and I work with lots of practitioners that do a lot of practitioner mentoring in both the nerdy functional lab testing interpretation stuff, but also the business stuff, ultimately our conversations always go to business.
Kendra: Because people are always wondering "How do I get clients, how do I make a go of this? How do I quit my side hustle and make this a full time gig?" Right?
Christine: Yeah. We're kickass coaches, really good ones.
Kendra: Yeah, and I love the next one we're going to talk about, because this is one I always have to- even currently now- check myself on, is that your vanity metrics don't matter.
Christine: Oh, fuck yeah. Oh, sorry!
Kendra: I think we swear on this podcast, I think we're good. [crosstalk] I think we only dropped like 3-6 F-bombs
Kendra: F-bomb count: Ding, number three, we should get a bell!
Christine: Yeah, five cents in the cookie jar.
I love that you call it "vanity metrics". Who cares, it's so old school and I still remember this one person who's been contacting me a couple of times, still for a summit where she insists on getting my list, I'm like "Why? It's so antiquated. Who's you're coach, were they like 2005-2008?" It's so old school, what worked in 2013 is not working today, and I think it's like, your numbers, unless you have a very specific campaign, it doesn't matter. I have a teeny tiny list, and I convert a [muhhfuckas]
Christine: [inaudible] Right, and I only have two sets of courses or so a week, and so it's totally fine. So, yeah, I love that because it can give us an inferiority complexus, as in "My list is tiny, my Facebook page doesn't have a lot of followers." Let me tell you, a couple of years ago Facebook was promoting pages, it sent so many people there, stop doing that. It has nothing to do with you or your popularity, everything to do with the algorithm. There's so many different factors, platforms that shift that numbers, indeed, don't seem to really express anything.
However, I find it doesn't hurt to sometimes invest for a short period of time in companies that can help you in a legitimate way, and in a way that is in alignment with you, build a certain following base on a certain platform. It doesn't need to be 20k, it can be 6k or 5k, and it's impressive enough for if you want to have media, for example, to go and look at your Instagram account and say "Okay, at least she's got 4,000 followers, that's more than your average person." You can find people that do a really, genuinely good job without spamming you or having fake accounts online, and I think that sometimes when you have a good income already, it's [then a good way] to sometimes spend money. It's definitely not something you need in the beginning.
Christine: But as you are in the middle of the career, it might be a good idea when you budget, what you're going to focus your marketing money on during next quarter, or during second quarter or third quarter, that you say "For one quarter I'm going to focus on that." For example.
Kendra: Totally. And I think in the beginning, you might have 200 followers on social media, maybe you have 50 people on your list, but don't look at it like "I just have 200 followers and I only have..." treat your list and your social media following as if it were thousands. Really try to get that mindset going, because the truth is 50 engaged email list subscribers is way better than 500 people who don't give a shit- ding! About what you're doing and about what you're saying.
And you don't need, I think this is a really good piece of advice, I know in the beginning I felt really overwhelmed, I'm looking at these other people out there who have thousands and thousands of followers and I'm thinking that I can't make money or I'm not going to be able to get income until I get that amount of followers, but you can actually have a very successful and a very profitable business with a very small list and a very small following. Me and Christine are great examples of this, I generate six figures, I have 2,000 people on my list, I have 1,600 on Facebook I think I have 4,000 on Instagram, it doesn't matter.
Christine: No, no.
Kendra: It's because those people like what I'm saying, I nurture them, I treat them like humans. Remember, followers are humans, they're not just numbers. I can have a five figure launch with a 2,000 person email list.
Christine: Exactly. And I have, I've talked with [inaudible] who was a coach of mine, and she has a tiny list, I think it's also not 500 people, not even. And she just had $170,000 launch, or, yeah, a $70,000 launch that she didn't spend any ad spend on. So everything's possible, and I'm not in love with my list, I'm very honest about it, but I just need one person to convert and it's a 10k day.
Christine: Don't plan on the number of people that you have on there, and communicate with them.
Christine: Ask your client, if they do, tell them "I'm appreciating it, and the etiquette last week, and the protocol, converting to clients, there we go." So, I'm not the one who's having a gazillion billion files, or anything like that. I find that is also something that we spend way too much time on, having the perfect [email] sequence and all of that, I find that it's not necessary. It can help if you have a product launch or anything like that, but anything else, if you're consistently showing up and you show them who you are, you don't need a $10,000 dollar [email] sequence that you pay someone for, you really don't. Just be honest.
Kendra: Yeah, yeah. Just love the people you've got and really appreciate the fact that they're there, because when I look at people who are buying something from me when I launch something, it's the people who've been on my list for years. They may not even show up that much, they might not reply to the emails or even comment on my page, but I know they're there, and they're the ones who buy because they're holding on to me, and it's not even a big group of people in the end. It's like this group of people who are my number one fans and they always buy, every time I release something they buy from me. Right?
Christine: Yeah. And I would even advocate to get rid of the rest. I purge my list religiously every two months, where I go through any people who have been inactive for three months, I delete them. Any unsubscribes, I delete them. And I also send out emails at least twice a year where I'm telling them "Do you still need me, yes or no? And please unsubscribe if you don't." And I literally tell them that. Please unsubscribe, and something that I would recommend there is the "nine-letter email". Where you don't have any formatting, you literally just say "Hi, I'm just wondering if you still need my services. Christine." And then you can do a "P.S. If you don't, please unsubscribe." Or you just leave it.
And then you can see, people who don't react, delete them. They don't need you. They're a waste of space on your email list, they cost you money, it's giving you skewed data, it lowers your open rates. I just get rid of them, I delete them, they're not going to buy from me.
Christine: Because in the end a lot of people, especially at a certain price point, they are either in or they're out. And the hackless, we don't want them.
Kendra: Yeah, exactly. And I mean it's scary to get rid of those, I remember at one point deleting 1,700 people from a 3,000 person list. And I was like "This is over half my subscribers, but they weren't opening my emails, they weren't high-quality leads, so there was no point in them being on there. And it does affect how your email provider views emails as spam, if you're sending out emails and nobody's opening them, Gmail is like "This person's sending out spam." So they will choke hold your open rate, so be aware of that, and it's true like Christine said: Generally you're paying for the more subscribers that you have on your list, you don't want to be paying for people who don't give a shit about you, or what you're saying. And it's scary but it's all about engaged followers.
There's a woman that I follow, I'm not going to say "I have such a crush on her", but anyways, she has a really small list. I think she has 4,000 people on her email list, and she has multiple six figure launches with 0 ad spend because that's how engaged her people are.
Christine: Exactly. And I find you need to work to your strengths. I'm not a writer, so my [inaudible] in the meantime I don't even write them anymore. I'm going to write the next one because it's going to be a [inaudible] email, but in general it's not me who writes them, because I don't like writing. My medium is speaking, I don't like writing so I'm not going to expect my email list to convert like a motherfucker, because I don't really put that much love into it because I don't like Dammit. I don't like writing. I want to tell you guys as well, stick to your zone of genius. Writing is making your eyes glaze over or spin around, then don't do it, then don't put more energy into it. It's negative energy that you can use in your zone of genius, whatever that might be. Maybe writing is a zone of genius, then put extra effort in there.
I think it's really, really important, but the old message of email marketing being the one and only tool is definitely over, and I know that people who have this golden age of infusion software where you have a list of 50-60,000 people and stuff are really struggling because Gmail is ruthless.
Christine: It's a real struggle all the time to figure out the algorithms and they hire multiple people to figure it out, which is costing them again.
Kendra: A lot of money.
Christine: So keep it simple, people.
Kendra: Yeah, keep it simple, love the people you've got, love the shit out of them. They're listening to what you say, change that mindset around! Ungh! I saw some thrusting over there, Christine.
Christine: I'm loving you guys, oh my goodness.
Christine: Get on there, go to [inaudible] dot com. I'm loving it.
Kendra: It's so funny, but yeah, you've just got to have that mindset. Look at them, and like I said, remember they're humans, they're people, they're not just numbers, they're not just metrics, they're not just statistics. They are humans and if they like what you're saying, they're reading all your blog posts or watching all your Facebook Lives or whatever, that is sweet. That's a good follower and that is someone who is going to eventually buy from you when you have something to sell.
Christine: Yeah. Agreed. Alright, what do we have next?
Kendra: Number 4: Don't reinvent the wheel, learn how to repurpose content. And this was a really big ah-ha moment for me, because when I started out, I was creating unique content for every single platform. [crosstalk] Instagram, it was just ridiculous. I remember the first time I was like "Oh, repurposing content." I was like "Oh my god, how did I not know what that was a year ago?"
Christine: Yeah. And I think we have to say thanks to how amazing Jamie Palmer for that, right?
Kendra: Yeah, we did an episode with her, it was episode 2 on repurposing content, she has a really great content repurposing strategy that I know you implement in your business, Christine, and I actually work with Jamie in her agency so I know they're doing it for my social media. But really all you have to do is create one high-quality of content like every week or two, like for me, I'm like you I'm not really into writing, I don't care for blog posts, I'm good on video.
So I do a lot of Facebook Lives, I take my Facebook Live and then I transcribe it, I put it on YouTube, I pull the audio from it, it goes into a podcast, and then Jamie and her team they actually pull little blurbs from that video and the they put it on Facebook, Pinterest, LinkedIn, Instagram, and I turn that video transcription into something for my email list, as well.
Kendra: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Christine: That's exactly the same process I use. I literally only do the Facebook video, that's all I do, the whole rest is my assistant who takes over. She does all the rest, it's a very simple system, it takes a little bit in the beginning to learn, but not that much, and now she's done, in literally an hour she's done. And I've seen numbers in this case, I think my organic search went up from 56% to now 80%.
Christine: Just because you are everywhere, and it's no effort. I literally just do that video, I love doing them.
Kendra: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Christine: Once a week is not too much, you could even batch them if you wanted to.
Christine: I'm not very good at that but sometimes I do, I know you are.
Kendra: I'm super into it! It's changing my life.
Christine: So you do whatever calls you. I'm a spur of the moment person, I never script anything, or I don't have [inaudible] notes, very individual. But no matter what, repurposing, it's a golden thing.
Christine: And also, you don't need a new piece of content every year or month. I have a very particular schedule of what I see that I've done this year, doesn't mean that I'm not going to use the same topic next year. Because you get the same questions over and over again and truth is people are not going to scroll through all your blog posts all the time, they're going to that top five.
Christine: So you can talk about the same topic, and you will have other clients who have had the same issue but dealt with it differently. You have learned more, you've experienced a lot more, so don't think you'll be boring. And we've talked about that, I always feel like I have a mug coming flying toward my forehead when I use the word "cortisol" because I think I use it too much, but it's just not true! I'm like "cortisol", ugh, people are going to chase me with sticks. It's really not true, I'm talking about it in this weeks episode, actually. It's not true, it's in your head. It's literally just the voices in your head that aren't true.
Kendra: Yeah, and I love what you're saying there, don't be afraid to repeat yourself. You are going to repeat yourself, you're going to say the same shit over and over and over and over again, but- ding! But it doesn't matter because not every person is following every single thing that you do, they're not reading your Pinterest posts, your Instagram your Facebook and reading your blog posts and going on your YouTube channel, they're not. They're seeing bits and pieces of it, but they also need that repetition, that's actually really important, you kind of need to hear the same thing a few times for it to stick.
I'm the same way, when I say "detox" when I say "mineral imbalance" when I say "metal toxicity" I'm just like "Oh man, people are so sick of hearing me talk about this", but they're not. It's so funny, the people I have in my membership, I feel like I repeat myself so much even within my small membership, and people are like "Oh my god, every time it's so interesting." And I'm like "Man, I just say the same shit three weeks in a row and they think it's the best." Because yeah, people need that repetition, and not everyone is remembering every single thing that you said, right? [crosstalk]
Christine: And you say that people get different things out of it, that's just the way it works.
Kendra: Yeah. So I think that's a big one, you can't reinvent the wheel, you can't make new social media content for every social media platform and then go totally cray-cray and burn yourself out, and then you get to the point where you're like "I'm out of ideas, I have no ideas left." You can reuse the same content, I've made a Facebook Live on the same topic probably like five or six times.
Christine: Oh yeah.
Kendra: I've spoken about it in a bit of a different way, maybe taken a bit of a different angle, but really when it comes down to it, it's the same stuff.
Christine: I mean people ask you all the same questions all of the time.
Kendra: Mm-hmm (affirmative). That's true.
Christine: You notice it when you do interviews, it's the same question all of the time, and it's just like "Okay, how can I make it more spicy?" It doesn't even matter.
Kendra: Yeah. Just be okay with repeating yourself, right? Groundhog Day all day, every day. You know that movie? [crosstalk]
Awesome, and I love our final hindsight tip because it's about outsourcing, it's about not trying to do everything yourself, and yes when you're a solopreneur in the beginning and maybe when you don't have a lot of money, you are going to be doing a lot of things yourself, but we do encourage you to outsource just one thing. Because there is something that you suck at, that you absolutely suck at. Maybe it's graphic design, you just make these shitty, clunky nineties images and you're like "That's not nice." You can actually find someone for super cheap to do that for you.
Christine: Yes, and I would argue that that money is going to return to you so quickly because of two different ways; number one: It's going to free up energy. When you do something that's out of your zone of genius it drags negative energy out of you. It makes you twice as tired as anything else. So you're not going to spend that energy on something that is in your zone of genius that would actually give you energy instead. So that's number one.
Christine: The second thing is, it's a mindset thing.
Christine: When you go and you consider yourself as a business, even if it's a freelance [inaudible] employee, you've raised your vibe, you've raised your authority, and you're a proper business. You're not a haggler, you're not a hustler, you're like "I am the boss of my business, and I treat it as a business." And you will appear that way, people who want to work with you will see that, you will have a different vibe around you and when you say "My assistant will do that", it is a different ballgame. Most people now don't even communicate with me personally anymore, it's my assistant who does everything. I have an executive assistant, I have a speaker agent, most companies don't even get to talk to me until I fly to the gig. It's just a different ballgame, right?
Kendra: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Christine: And you need to step up to that. I find the time where the solopreneur is wearing a gazillion hats, like 17 is not even enough, it's just "Why?" It's not a sign of intelligence not to outsource things, because it's not an impression of price, it's totally affordable. Especially things that are draining you but can easily be outsourced, like processors, graphic design, transcriptions, other things we outsource, everything. Scheduling posts, answering typical questions from your website, sending out scheduling links, I don't even schedule anything anymore. My assistant looks at other people's scheduling links and does it in my calendar. So things like that, you don't need to do that, you really don't.
Kendra: Yeah, and really think about what doesn't make you money because those are the things you should be considering outsourced. What are the things that you need to be doing? Obviously if you do video you're not going to outsource video, if you are your brand and you need to get in front of people, you're going to be doing your video, but you don't need to be doing the transcriptions, right? Transcriptions you can get done really cheap. And I know you use Fiber, Christine. I use UpWork a lot, and I love UpWork, and it's probably the same as Fiber, people have profiles, they have reviews, comments, you can see their history you can view someone who you think is a good fit.
Christine: I've used both, I've been massively screwed by UpWork, like 750 bucks worth.
Kendra: Oh, no.
Christine: Because I didn't quite get the system and I had a really dishonest person there. So I'm a little bit bitter towards UpWork, but I'm just too thick to use it. I don't understand all the plans they have, so I'm staying away from it. But it doesn't matter, there's another platform, I don't remember the name, but yeah. Those are the main ones, you can find them in Facebook groups, if you look for "Virtual assistant" in Facebook you will find groups where they hang out. In any Facebook group you can ask for references, "Who's your virtual assistant, do you like them, don't you like them?" There's agencies you can use, I know there's one in Australia called Automation Agencies, they are like a concierge service where you pay a certain amount per month, and then they do all of those things for you.
So there's lots of different options and lots of different price ranges. You can't always go with a country like the Philippines and have a very cheap one for data entry. At the moment I do a lot of research so I have people that if I wanted to I could outsource there, just to go through [exercise] and pull out names and email addresses and things like that. But there's different levels, I find.
Kendra: Yeah, exactly.
Christine: I do always find something. And test them out! Don't be afraid to say "It didn't work out, sorry."
Kendra: Yeah, exactly. And I think that's the biggest thing, give them a test project and then see how it goes. Because you don't need to stick with them if it didn't work. I've definitely had my share of experiences with outsourcing and I've had some that are just terrible, and I've had some that are awesome. But it really helps, I have a group membership and I want to be giving them good recipes every month, but I'm not going to make recipes. I love to cook but I never right down my measurements, so I have a woman who's a professional chef, and she gives me 10 recipes every month.
Christine: Yeah. Deal.
Kendra: And then I give them to my group and they're awesome, people love them and they feel like they're being made specifically for them from this professional chef. And I don't even see the recipes, they get sent to my assistant, she posts them in the Facebook group and people get stoked on it.
Christine: Love it.
Kendra: And when you're new it's definitely overwhelming, it's this money thing, you don't have clients yet, you're not generating income, but there's still something. There is something that you can spend, maybe you're just going to spend 5 to 50 bucks on it but it's going to make your life so much easier, and you're not going to regret it. That money, like Christine says, is going to come back to you.
Christine: It will!
Kendra: Because if you want to grow quickly, if you want to make money and start turning this into a full time gig if it isn't already, you need to be focusing on things that make you money. Which is getting clients, marketing yourself, talking to clients, working with clients. It's not customer service, it's not graphic design, it's not admin, it's not bookkeeping, it's not making recipes or whatever. Depending on what your niche is, maybe it is making recipes.
Kendra: If that's what you're doing.
Christine: You can buy so many Done For You programs, Rachel Feldman is someone who has amazing Done for You programs for health coaches. Definitely recommend her, I love her. Good investment when you get started and you think you're overwhelmed, it's all done for you, you can tweak it and customize it, go and check her out, I adore her. That is definitely something that you can do, also just a side note, money is just money.
Christine: It comes back to you. It's not a good thing, it's not a bad thing. It's just a thing.
Christine: So don't freak out when you invest it, it's going to come back. It's just a thing.
Kendra: It will be there.
Christine: Yeah. Because you will have that time, the way you spend 20 minutes a pro, who's a VA, you pay them five bucks, they spend two minutes on it, it's better than what you did, and those 20 minutes you might have a meaningful conversation with someone who then likes you and is going to pay you 5,000 bucks.
Kendra: Yeah. Exactly. I think money is just like this energetic frequency, and I'd love to do an episode, we should do one on "money mindset". Because I feel like things for me really start to shift when I started dealing with my money shit. Because we all have weird beliefs around money, it's this weird thing where we want it, but we almost feel dirty about wanting it. Especially when we're making our money helping people, we feel like we want to help people but taking their money doesn't feel as good as helping them.
Kendra: So I think we bring a lot of weird money shit into our relationships with our clients, with our business, and when you learn how to shift that, that's honestly where the magic happens. That's what I think anyway.
Christine: Exactly. Your business grows from the inside out. Your inside out. It's the most magical sentence that once you get it, it will change your business. Yes, we will have to get a couple experts in here about money mindset. Kendra and I, we both have done massive shifts this year.
Kendra: Oh, yeah.
Christine: I'm not the same person I was six months ago. My prices have 10x'd, 100x'd, actually. I have my old pricing on another partnership side and someone got in touch with me today, "Are you still charging this?" I was like "Fuck no!"
Christine: Ding.[crosstalk] You have to take this down because this is no longer true, it's now like 10 times the amount.
Kendra: Yeah. Yeah definitely. And I think it takes time to work through those blocks, but we'll definitely get some experts on here and talk about it because I really think that's a huge thing, is really learning how to have positive, happy, productive thoughts about money.
Christine: Yeah. It's great, I love money.
Kendra: I love money, too. I want all the money.
Christine: It's brilliant stuff.
Kendra: Awesome, well that was awesome. I'm glad we talked about some of the things we wish we knew and we do have a freebie for this episode. You can get it at 360healthbizpodcast.com/episode16. And it's going to include all the five things we talked about today, plus five more. So it's going to include 10 Must-Know Tips that you need to know as a new health coach. Or even as a medium health coach, someone who's midway in their business, these are things we need to keep reminding ourselves about so that we don't forget. Because sometimes we suck at taking our own advice.
Christine: Yeah. And leave us feedback on your biggest "Wish I had known." So if you're a more seasoned health coach or mid sized and you think "I have some experiences to share", come over to our Facebook page, find the link and it's Facebook.com/360healthbizpodcast and leave a comment below this episode and let us know what was your biggest "I wish I had known" moment. We love to read that.
Kendra: We would love to because we all have them, right? I think by sharing that and having that conversation it helps everyone else who's still in that beginning mode making all the mistakes that we were making too, right?
Kendra: Awesome. Well that was fun, Christine!
Christine: As always, it was lovely.
Kendra: Lovely, good to be back, and we'll be back again in two weeks time. And remember, we're a broken record with this, leave us a review! Leave us a review on iTunes, it helps us get out there. If you want to support the show that is the best way to do it.
Christine: Thank you.
Kendra: Just by giving us your positive feedback. And that helps us know that you want more from us, and we will give it to you.
Christine: You want more? You get it! I love where this is going.
Kendra: I know, me too.
Christine: Alright guys, thanks so much for tuning in, check out our website 360healthbiz.com you'll find all the information in there, our show notes, our links, our freebies, everything you need. And if you want to get in touch just shoot us an email.
Kendra: Awesome. Bye Christine.
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Econugenics Pectasol-C The most advanced and effective Modified Citrus Pectin (MCP) supplement available.
- Grab our FREE Practitioner Tool Kit to get a list and review of all the platforms Kendra and Christine use personally in their businesses to save time, money and generate consistent income.
Christine: Hello and welcome to this episode of the 360 HealthBiz Podcast here with the beautiful Kendra Perry,
Christine: Who is going to blow your minds today, and myself, Christine Hansen. So we're super excited to be here with you today for this episode. But before we dive in, we have a little request that would make us so happy and that would feature you on our show. And that is if you hope over to iTunes right now and you leave us a five star review, we would be super, super, super grateful, and we would actually also read it on the podcast with your names. So have your little claim to fame, your couple of seconds of fame on our show, and that would be absolutely amazing, and we would know on the right track.
Christine: So press pause and head over to iTunes right now. And as always, don't forget that Kendra and I will have an amazing Freebie for you on our website the 360healthbizpodcast.com where you have a huge box where it says that you can get a free tool kit, which is absolutely essential for anyone who's either starting out with a health coaching business, considering starting a coaching business, or someone who's in the middle of having a health coaching business, or someone who has been doing it for ages and still wants to see if there are some little nuggets that were just missed. And so we, we share all the tools that we're using and that has made our lives so much easier.
Kendra: Yeah. And I actually just beefed it up too. I threw in, an example of a really good client contract and a really good example of a claim intake form. So I just juiced it up a little bit.
Christine: Amazing. But if you have it already, don't worry, you can just sign up again and you will get sent the link straight away.
Christine: Perfect. Alright, so we're going to dive straight into our content today. So we don't have a guest, but it's our, both of us today. And we're going to do continuous education episode, and we're going to talk about detox today. And personally it's been something that I had on the radar for a long time, but I never really saw the issue with, issues with it until I dove deeper and actually realized how inconsiderate a lot of programs and unfortunately even schools are with detoxing, right? So we consider it something super easy, something that you can do whenever, but actually it's something pretty serious that you're doing to your body. So Kendra is an absolute wizard with these topics. I'm going to let her take the lead, take notes people, because this is going to make your practice so much more efficient. You will be ahead of the curve because you will know things that your clients never heard before and nobody else has told them that it's going to make you a much better practitioner. So Kendra, take it away.
Kendra: Awesome. And I love talking about this topic because I think it's a really misused word. I think detoxification is a very important process that we should always be thinking about all of us, whether you're a practitioner, client, everyone needs to be thinking about it, but it's a really overused, like kind of butchered word and it almost kinda has lost, it's like street cred to some degree because everyone out there is telling you that this will make you detox, that will make you detox, but when you actually kind of break down the building blocks of what that program or product actually is, like a lot of these things, they actually don't improve detox and a lot of them actually prevent detox altogether. So it's kind of one of my missions to try to make people better understand this because in my personal opinion, if you're not detoxing on the regular, you're going to be sick,
Kendra: and not gonna have energy and you're going to have a hard time losing weight and you're gonna have brain fog and you're going to end up with chronic illness.
Christine: Exactly. I think that is like the number one thing that my clients are very surprised about when they tell that they want to go to someone who wants to do a detox with them and I always ask them, 'are you sure is your body actually ready for this? And detoxing can be very dangerous. If you're already sick. It might not be the best idea to do full on detox.' And they look at me like super surprised. I find that is already showing that you have more knowledge than you know, a general, just like the average practitioner may be or someone who's just, you know, just dip, dabbling with supplements for funds.
Christine: Right. Well let's go into detox and maybe, you know, when I play the devil's advocate, when I think about detox, what I used to think was that you take a product, you eat certain foods and then your body just eliminates all the crap that it has inside and once it's done, you clean and shiny and sparkly, and everything is just working like a new brand new Ferrari engine. Right. So correct me if I'm wrong. Which I'm sure I am.
Kendra: Yeah. And there's a few, there's some truth to what you said, but then there's some caveats as well. And yeah, we're going to go through what detoxification actually is today, why it's important, but I'm also going to tell you how you can design an effective safe detox for your clients, where it actually gives the client what you're telling them, it's that you're giving them. Because a lot of people are like, 'oh, sign up for my detox program,' but the program actually doesn't help you detox. And so it is true. Like our body's always detoxing, right? Like we have detoxification pathways and methods and organs and cells in the body. And if that process were to ever stop, you'd probably be dead within a couple days, right? Like you wouldn't live very long because, you know, we're always, you know, bringing this crap into her body. So like detox, it's not just like, 'oh, like I do this detox once a year and I'm good.' Like, it's like, 'no,'like your body actually is always detoxing. Your body is very good at it. But the sort of caveat is the fact that we live in a very different than we did 100 years ago, right. In the industrialized world, puts a lot of chemicals into the environment and right now there's upwards of 84,000 chemicals in the environment in North America. I don't know what it is for Europe, but it's probably similar because we share the same planet, right? There's winds and currents and that stuff gets kind of spread around the globe. So you know, there's all these chemicals now being added into our environment. Only a fraction of them are actually being tested for human safety. Very few of them are actually being tested for long-term. The approval process of getting a new chemical in the US is ridiculous. Like they just like push it through. It's a little different in Europe. You guys are a little bit more advanced North American.
Christine: Yeah, it's like a proven until the innocent or proven until guilty kind of [inaudible]. In the US it's like anything is fair game until you prove that it's absolutely horrible. In Europe it's, you know, we're not letting it on the market until you prove that it's safe, right. So.
Kendra: Yeah. And I mean that's a much better perspective and I know like when it comes to ingredients in our personal care products, like Europe's were called thousands, whereas I think the US is, we're called maybe five or six or something.
Christine: I know.
Kendra: So it's like, okay, that's a pretty big difference. But you know, a lot of the chemicals that, you know, we exist with that we live in, we live in a very chemical world and they've been connected to allergies, cancer, birth defects, you know, mental health issues, psychological disorders, like they're all around us and like we are getting exposed like, I don't care if you are living in Nepal, at the top of the Himalayas, like in a mud hut. Like, you still have some of these things in your body. And the research is pretty clear on that, Christine. Like there's studies of a human breast milk, and in human breast milk, I mean they find persistent organic pollutants, they find heavy metals, they find pesticides, all kinds of contaminants, in human breast milk, right? Like, how's it getting in there? Well, it's getting absorbed into the body through food, water, skin, air, that sort of thing. And then that is making people very sick and this is, like, a topic that I think we all need to pay really big attention to. Like I know in the functional medicine world, everyone is talking about the gut and that's great. Yes, digestive health is important. We had an episode about poop. We love poop, we love the gut, but it doesn't go deep enough for me. And I think, you know, everyone saying, well the gut is the root of all illness. I think that's really misled, because I honestly believe it's chemicals, metals, toxins. It's our toxic environment because, you know, we see in our practices. Like me and Christine do a lot of gut testing and what we see is chronic infections that we have a really hard time clearing, even though they eat really well and they live a healthy lifestyle. They get all these infections. So the big question is like, well why is the gut so unhealthy? Especially when people are actually leading a pretty healthy lifestyle. Right? And I think that's where we start to dig into all these underlying toxins and chemicals that are making their way into our bodies.
Christine: Yeah. And I think the main organ or one of the biggest organs that we have, that we tend to neglect as our skin. Right?
Christine: So I tell people if you're chronically ill, if there's lots of things going wrong, just thinking about what you put on your skin. If you wouldn't put it into your mouth then don't put it on your skin because it's getting absorbed just as much, right.
Christine: And that is something that make a big shift in a lot of people, who in the beginning of hesitant, you know, who are like, 'oh yeah, well there's no parabens in there anymore, or maybe no sulphates and no soda cans,' but, you know, that's not it, that's not enough.
Kendra: Yeah. And there's other things in there too. A lot of products that tout themselves as natural health products, like when you actually look at the ingredients, you can find all kinds of stuff. And a really great resource is actually the environmental working group, ewg.org/skindeep. I think. You can actually input your personal care product into their database and it'll come up with all the ingredients and like what studies have linked them to. So you can actually get a safety rating for everything you're using or if you don't have time for that, you're like, I'm too fucking busy. I don't have time for that. Just look at their top rated lists. They have like a top 10 list for a lot of different products.
Kendra: And so that's a really good place to start. And I mean I think obviously with detox, like people will, you know, spend 10 days a year during their little cleanse or their little detox, and think that they're good, but you know, if you're not doing anything to address the incoming source then detoxification doesn't work. Right? It's like you've got this, like, sink with a tap that won't stop running and you clear the drain temporarily, but if you don't actually address the leak, I mean that sinks just going to keep overflowing and filling up. So I think detox always needs to start with looking at our environment and really kind of, I guess looking at our relationship with chemicals, right? Like what, how are we letting chemicals into our lives? You know, are we drinking tap water? Tap water's a really huge source of toxicity. Christine's like, 'Oh my God, it's so toxic.' Yeah. Tap Water, even [inaudible] water.
Christine: You really notice the difference. I never thought, you know, everyone is always in Luxembourg your tap water is fine, and I'm like, you know, it's maybe not even the water, but it's like just the pipes.
Kendra: Oh yeah.
Christine: You live in Europe, it's super old. The pipes in the village I used to live, were was super, super old and I realized that after I switched to tap, to mineral water, from Luxembourg though, because I don't [inaudible] like have reactions, right.
Christine: It was so heavy it, so it really showed me that it's not [inaudible]. So I'm just a huge snob when it comes to water.
Kendra: Yeah. You should be a snob when it comes to water honestly, because it's the main way that people make themselves toxic and a lot of places will tell you like, 'oh, we have really, we have the cleanest drinking water.' But like, yeah, it's because it doesn't have like faecal contamination in it. It doesn't have maybe parasites or bacteria. But, they're not filtering for metals, pesticides, you know, they're not filtering. It's going to have chlorine in it. It's probably gonna have fluoride. And the biggest thing with municipal water is actually a drug residues, right? Everyone's taking drugs, people taking birth control or hormone replacement, diabetes medication, whatever. They pee it back out into the water and that goes back into your drinking system. So that's a really big one that people need to be considering as well. Yeah. So let's talk. I want to talk a little bit about like what actually is detoxification, and like what parts of the body...
Christine: Yeah [inaudible]
Kendra: Totally. I think we have a bit of a delay, Christine, you're kind of cutting in and out for me.
Christine: Yeah. But it's fine. I'm just [inaudible]. It's okay, I'm listening.
Kendra: Okay, cool. Yeah. So what is, you know, detoxification. It's kind of a sexy word, but what it actually is, what it actually should be called is conjugation, which isn't very sexy, but it's just basically the process of transforming one thing into another. Goes through several phases of detoxification and it comes out as something that our body can actually process and run through the colon, the sweat, the kidneys. Something that's safe, because you can't actually put a toxin into the body and just move it out as is, the body can't do that. It has to be transformed. And so there's actually four phases of detoxification. And I know Christine, that the liver gets all of the kind of fame for detoxification, but the liver actually detoxifies a lot less than the skin, and then the cells in the stomach. So the enterocytes in the stomach actually detoxify way more than the liver. So does the kidneys, so does all kinds of cells all over the body. So it's not just the liver. We shouldn't just be thinking about our liver. We actually need to be thinking about cellular detox. And basically the easiest way to break it down, and I should have a whiteboard behind me because it'd be really easy to describe, but basically there is phase zero and that's when the toxin goes into the cell. Once the toxin is in the cell there is phase one and phase two. And that's what most people are familiar with,
Kendra: there familiar with the phase one and the phase two. Phase one takes a fat soluble toxin, changes it into a peroxide, and then phase two takes that peroxide and turns it into a water soluble compound. And then phase three is when that, that talks and leaves that cell and then gets excreted. So there's actually four phases. Phase one and phase two or phase three, were all, were recently discovered, but there are those four phases. And we actually need to be supporting all of those phases when you do a detox. And what's really interesting is there are very famous, I'll call them famous, like detox ingredients that people will pump you full of during a detox. And they're virtually in every single detox product. I do my air quotes, but they actually, they actually blocked detoxification and...
Christine: What the fuck, right?
Kendra: Yeah. And to have these are milk thistle and curcumin.
Christine: Oh! [inaudible]
Kendra: I thought you'd have that reaction.
Christine: I'm like, hang on, in every program I've ever read it's like Qq is like, yeah, that's the thing you need to everyday put it into smoothies, put it everywhere, brush your teeth with it.
Kendra: Yeah. So, I mean, I'm not saying those are bad ingredients, but for the purposes of a detox, like if you actually want to help someone detoxify, milk thistle actually blocks the, the third phase of, of detoxification, so does curcumin. So those actually prevents those toxins from leaving the cell. Okay. Milk thistle is very helpful for the liver. Yes. It helps rebuild the liver. It's very good for that. But for the purposes of detox, like it's not something you should be taking long term. It's not something you should put into a detox product. So you're probably going to go into your shelf and look at all your detox supplements and you're gonna to have to throw them all out.
Christine: Throw them all out.
Kendra: Yeah. Because they're going to have that. And so I, you know, I think that's a really important thing to consider because there's lots of products on the market that tell you they are detox products and they're not, and this comes down to the fact that like when you're detoxifying, you actually need to have three things present. You need to have something that's going to immobilize, something that's going to like stir up the toxins because the toxins are getting stored pretty deeply in our body, right? They're getting stored in fat cells, brain cells, organs, tissues, like they get, they get put in there, and especially fat cells, Christine. Like fat cells are kind of like this nice little like membrane thing and
Kendra: the body can push a toxin into there and it'll protect it from the rest of the body, right? It'll protect that toxin from the rest of the body. So the body doesn't really want to immobilize that toxin. So it's, you have to do something that's going to immobilize.
Christine: That's also, I think why, you know, when women want to get pregnant, I always tell them that now is not a good time because, you know, if you get rid of of that basic unleashes that toxic [inaudible], that's the first step, right. It's not, you have a regular load, plus your actually going to unleash and what’s been stored up. And especially also I know that women with endometriosis, that tissue's very absorbent as well, so not just for hormones but also for toxins, so, which is why there are so many inflammation issues, you know,
Christine: So, it's, I'm just saying if you're a women or you're dealing with people who have fertility issues, be very mindful of that, right. And for anyone how has a health condition or who you know is going to go through a hard time or anything like that. Just as a word of warning. Do not start a detox. When you know that there's something happening very soon like that. So it's a big process. It's a big deal, right.
Christine: You don't know how much is in there, how much is stored in there, you don't know what it is. You don't know how the body's going to react to it. And so just a little disclaimer, free warning.
Kendra: No, I think that's a really good point. Pregnancy, nursing, these aren't times where you detox and yeah, when I work with clients it's like if we're on, if we have them on like a gut protocol, where they're getting rid of infections and maybe we're doing some detox that we have to kind of give that all a stop. We have to hold that until after they're done breastfeeding, because you're right, it's not a time to be detoxing. You don't want toxins to go into the placenta and into your baby. Right? So, yeah, that's a really good point. But I love how, what you said about endometriosis. Because that's a big one for toxins. Especially because a lot of the plastics in our environment, they mimic human estrogen and that's a really big issue with a lot of these toxins or xenobiotics is that they look very similar and they act very similar to human estrogen and hormonal issues I think are very much driven by this chemical toxicity. And you know, I think males are having the same issues. Like you know, too much estrogen in a male is going to lead to like man boobs and weight issues, right?
Christine: And sleep issues.
Kendra: Yes, and sleep issues. Sleep like a boss.
Christine: Yeah. And I can see that at a lot when I run into something like the Dutch test and I can see everything pointing towards something and then I have a woman with endometriosis, you know that the results might be skewed because those little fuckers are just holding on to their dear life in [inaudible]. So it's just good to know that.
Kendra: Yeah. Yeah. And definitely like, like you mentioned with endometriosis, like those tissues are very absorbent and they're absorbing a lot of chemicals and toxins. And then when that gets shed every month, I think that really pays into that inflammation and that extreme pain that women feel has endometriosis. A lot of detox needs to happen with endometriosis for sure.
Kendra: Yeah. And so we've talked about, so the three things that you need, we've talked about immobilization you need to, and I'm going to give you guys some examples of these. So this will help you design your own detox program. There's, you want to immobilize, you want to kind of move those toxins out of the cells, out of the tissues. Number two is the actual like detoxification or transformation, conjugation, conjugation part, so that's something that you're gonna give them to help them move toxins into the body, to boost those different phases of detoxification. It's not going to be curcumin, it's not going to be milk thistle, it's not going to be black pepper, because all those things will block your phases of detoxification, but actually what I'm going to tell you in a second, is going to surprise you because these ingredients are these supplements that I'm going to tell you about, you've actually probably never even seen in a detox product, which is kind of funny to me, because they were actually the best way to enhance detoxification. So that's number two. And then number three is excretion, right? So we need to immobilize, we need to move things through the phases of detoxification, but then we have to help with the excretion and actually getting that out. And this is what most detox programs are missing. They don't do anything to help with excretion. They might stir it up, they might try to open the phases of detox, but they don't actually help you move it out of the body, which means that those toxins are probably going to get redeposited.
Kendra: Yeah, exactly. So that sucks. We don't want that, and that's how detox can make people sick, right. Can make people feel like crap because they're just stirring up toxins and not really moving them out. So let's talk about some of the things that actually help them immobilize toxins. So this will probably surprise you, but one of the best ways to do it is actually fasting and calorie restriction, because that causes the fat cells to burst, right? We want the fat cells to burst and dumped their toxins. So intermittent fasting or extended fasting or calorie restriction are actually really great ways to do this. And this is why I think detox needs to be part of weight loss programs because with calorie restriction, ultimately you are immobilizing toxins. And I actually think maybe the reason why people gain back their weight is because they dump a lot of toxins, but then they don't get moved out. So the body needs to store them again,
Kendra: body makes more fat cells or bigger fat cells.
Christine: Makes sense.
Kendra: Yeah. Yeah. So that's a good way to do it. I mean, that can be obviously a bit intense for people, but it's the best way to do it. Something else that will mimic the same effects of fasting calorie restriction is actually vitamin B3 or Niacin in higher doses. I don't know if you've ever used that, Christine, but you have to be careful with it because it'll make you flush. Like if you take it...
Kendra: in high doses, like it makes you go super red, like a tomato, you get super. [inaudible]
Christine: [inaudible] I had it yesterday, yesterday.
Kendra: Oh really?
Christine: No kinding. I went to see a friend of mine is doing Chinese medicine and she wanted to show you a new thing and she gave me this multivitamin and she was like, 'I put a little bit of B3 in there,' [inaudible] tomato, I hope it wasn't too much, but I didn't. So it was good. But it made me pee like [inaudible]
Kendra: Oh yeah, totally. Yeah. It has a really interesting effect on the body. And so you want to take it, like if you're going to take it, you want to start with a really low dose,
Kendra: like possibly like 50 milligrams or less, because if you go buy like a 500 milligram capsule like you're gonna you might, well you might puke because it's acid, so it will burn your stomach and it'll make you feel very nauseous and then you'll be super red. You'll be read like a beat, you'll be itchy. I mean, you're just going to be like, 'Oh my God, what is happening?'
Kendra: But what it does and there's actually a whole Niacin detox program that's very interesting. But you want to start with a small dose and kind of work your way up. So you could do like a two week or three week detox with Niacin where you start at 50 milligrams and you the way up as high as a thousand or even two. But there's actually this, and I want to mention this because I, this is just so so cool to me. So after 9/11, Christine, a lot of those firefighters were very sick because they got exposed to all those toxic building materials when they were going through the rubble of those buildings and a lot of them were demonstrating Parkinson like symptoms, neurological symptoms, like they were very sick and they actually were put through this Niacin detox which was developed actually by L. Ron Hubbard, the creator of scientology, which is random.
Christine: Your kidding.
Kendra: But, yeah, totally. He developed this way before he developed scientology, but actually is a way to detox people getting off of drugs. And so they went through this program, these firefighters, and basically it involves taking this high dose Niacin, some exercise, and then getting in a sauna and sweating it out. And they were sweating out purple. There's, you can go on Google and look up like 9/11 firefighter Niacin detox, and you'll see pictures of guys holding up towels that are drenched in purple from all the toxins.
Christine: Oh my God.
Kendra: The crazy things that they were bringing through their skin.
Christine: Mind blown people. I'm telling you, this is good stuff
Kendra: Yeah. I know it's, it's totally mind blowing. And it's really crazy. So I think it's a very effective, it's been around for a long time, but you know, obviously if you are doing the Niacin detox like it is best that you, you know, speak with a professional who knows what they're doing first, you should always consult Dr, Professional, that sort of thing. And, you need to be implementing the other phases as well.
Christine: Exactly [inaudible]
Kendra: The other thing I wanted to mention, that'll do it, that'll help them better for. Sorry, go ahead Christine.
Christine: Yeah, I was just going to say that be cautious about these things, don't forget when we told you, right.
Christine: Run phase one and phase two and phase three. This is just like the facilitator. You need, it's like having a plane landing, right? And then having the passengers are all the different toxins coming out and then you need a bus to shuttle them out, right. So right now where just helping passengers to get out of that plane, which is just like your fat cells and everything, and now you need to shuttle them off. Right? So...
Kendra: I love that analogy. I think that's great, like people will be like, 'Yeah, that totally makes sense.' And there is one other thing, and this won't do all toxins, but this is one I use, it's called BioSil. I'll just put that up to the camera for those of you who are watching us on video, but basically it's marketed for skin, hail, hair and nails, but it's just silicone, and silicone actually helped stirrup metal. So this might not get your, your chemicals, your xenobiotics, I'm not super familiar with it, does that, but it does stir up certain metals. So this is actually a really great part of a metals detox program is a little bit of silicon. And a lot of people are already taking it for skin, hair, teeth. But you can take up to 10 drops a day. It can cause a lot of fatigue if you have a lot of metals, you want to start with one drop, but again, if you're going to take it, you, you need to be doing the other things as well. So that's, that's what you need to do with immobilizing toxins. So if you design a detox program, it should either contain some sort of intermittent fasting, some sort of calorie restriction, or Niacin and be careful with the Niacin, because if you give someone a Niacin flush, like we mentioned, it's pretty unpleasant and it might make someone never want to work with you again. So, yeah.
Christine: Yes. They might think they have an allergic reaction and might die. So it's, yeah, no, no. Every time I, I've been weary of it, you know, when they told me, it's been the third time was something that I have it, I have never had anything happen, but I was like, 'I don't want to flush.'
Christine: [inaudible] just want to know about it but you know, I mean stuff with a super low dose and just do plan, stick to it and hydrate.
Kendra: Yep, hydrate, hydrate, hydrate.
Christine: [inaudible] if you have a reaction [inaudible].
Kendra: Yeah, yep, yeah, exactly. And it's temporary, like if you do have a reaction. I've had it. I've, I've overdone Niacin multiple times because I'm, I'm just like don't follow my own follow my...
Christine: Come on!
Kendra: I'm like terrible at following my own advice. But it is temporary and it will, it will pass. It may make you feel very sleepy. Like when I've overdone it, I've literally had people pass out because it makes me very tired. It also sometimes will make you like really goosebumpy, like it makes me really cold and sleepy and I feel like getting the covers and pass out. But yeah, just, actually take my advice, don't be like me, I, I'm horrible for following my own advice sometimes I'm just like, 'oh, I'll just, I'll just see what happens. I'll just, oh whatever. I'll just, I'll just try it.'
Christine: Maybe that was why I was so tired yesterday morning.
Kendra: Yeah, it can make you sleepy, for sure. So take it before bed.
Kendra: Okay. So that's the immobilization. And then we have to talk about the actual detoxification part. So that's where we're taking things to actually help boost detoxification. So milk thistle, curcumin, black pepper. Those things inhibit certain phases of detoxification. You don't want to take those. But things that have actually been proven scientifically, to help with detoxification is coQ10, St John's Wort, and then two strains of lactobacillus, the probiotic, the rhamnosus, and the plantarum. So that's funny, hey Christine, like, have you ever heard those into detox product before?
Christine: No. Like I, I'm the biggest lactobacillus rhamnosus, [inaudible] anyway. Gg strain is the one that I love, like, you need to know probiotics have different strains. The Gg is one that I love because it's like this old style kind of thing, I haven't, but it makes total sense. It makes complete sense to me. The plantarum I haven't seen before, no. Do you know, by any chance, if there are any strains that are better than others?
Kendra: Yeah. I just know the rhamnosus and the plantarum, so I know those strains. I know there's like different strains of each, but as far as I know, it's just those...
Christine: The main.
Kendra: Those main ones that will help. And yeah, the coQ10 and say, like coQ10 is typically something used with people with like, like MS and Parkinson's and St John's Wort is typically used for depression, anxiety, like mental health issues. But they actually are really great detoxifier. So it's just funny because, you know, I look at, and someone's gonna hate me for this, but like those, those shakology things, right.
Kendra: It's like, 'Oh, this helps you detox.' And I look at the ingredients and it's got a ton of things in there that actually block detoxification. And then it's just full of shitty low quality vitamins and minerals that aren't even very well absorbed and some like fillers, and I'm just like, this is a really expensive product, it doesn't help you detox. It's like, I'm sorry, but it's shit.
Christine: It's shit. Yeah. It's not doing anything. It's just random product in there that used to be, I think a lot of these products where developed in the 90's, early 2000's, and nobody's really revised them since then, right?
Christine: And then you have some products, you know, who have everything.
Christine: There you have milk thistle and Q10 and it's like, well that's not going to help either. Right? It's really tricky. So the best is to take things in there, you know, proper form not, I think it's super hard to find a really good all in one product.
Christine: I prefer taking things separately, tying them in properly, and having each individual product do their stuff. It's just more bespoke. It's more tailored, it's more efficient.
Christine: I just prefer that.
Kendra: Yeah, I agree. Like the thing about like minerals for example, is there a very heavy. Right? Very like physically heavy. Like they have all those electrons, like if you get nerdy and look at the periodic table, they just get heavier as you go down. Let's get nerdy and, the thing is if you're taking a multivitamin, like, like if it has everything in it, like you're taking it at such a low dose, that, that's why a lot of multivitamins or synthetic, because they're so weak when they're natural that they have to be synthetic. And I mean I don't think synthetic vitamins and minerals are helpful. And then if you're going to take a national multivitamin, like you would have to take like 10 to 20 times the normal dose to be able to for it to have any effect. Like when people ask me about multivitamins again, they're wondering about an all in one product that can be helpful. My favorite thing is actually marine phytoplankton. There's a company that gets an activation products but it's called Oceans Alive, Marine Phytoplankton. And it actually contains every single mineral and vitamin that the human body needs. Tastes like swampy seawater. But it's really good stuff. And it's in like a very safe, natural plant based form and the really cool thing about the marine phytoplankton is it's alive and if it had too many toxins in it, like if it was contaminated it would die.
Kendra: So that's how they can tell that it's good quality and it's not contaminated. So that's. And that will actually help you detox as well. That's a good like kind of base detox product because it has all the vitamins you need.
Christine: There you go.
Kendra: Yeah. So that can be helpful. But the other things that work really well, and Dandelion is actually a little bit more well known. I think Dandelion is well known.
Kendra: For its detoxification benefits and it does. So dandelion, Chicory root tea is really helpful. And then anything that boosts bile. So bile is something that your liver makes but it stored in the gallbladder and your body will secrete it every time you consume fat. Right? It's kind of like the dish detergent, like if you have an oily pan and you're trying to wash it with water, like you don't get anywhere, you need that soap to kind of emulsify it and break it down, that's what bile is. And bile is actually one of the most detoxifying things that your body has. So bitters are really great.
Kendra: All your bitter foods, greens, that sort of thing. That can be really helpful as well. So you want to be.
Kendra: What were you going to say Christina?
Christine: [inaudible] Is that some of my clients have gallbladder [inaudible] and as a result they were [inaudible], and to me, that's just so irresponsible. Like there's reason for all of this happening. You cannot just cut out an organ, right. So if you do not have a gallbladder, obviously you have to eat differently. You cannot eat as much in one go, just simply because, you know, the gallbladder is that to help the body out once its natural flow has, you know, emptied.
Christine: But what I do find is that you can help it with, I even had really great success with essential oils, actually. Essential oils that were great with plants, that help digestions and things like that. That could definitely help even topically. But that's just a little side note for those of you maybe don't have a gallbladder anymore or just like don't let it [inaudible].
Kendra: Yeah. And so if you don't have a gallbladder, like if you do have a gallbladder, I mean you could be doing things all day long to help stimulate bile and that's really helpful, but you don't want to be doing that when you don't have a gallbladder because then you're just dumping bile into the intestine because you have no storage place for it and then it can be a bit aggravating. So you just want to, you know, only take your bile stimulants when you are eating. Bitters are helpful. Actually, there's a product from UNIKEY called Bile Builder, that I really like. It's got everything that helps build bile and then you might add in some bile salts as well. Just to help because yeah, like gallbladders are really important. Obviously there are medical emergencies where it needs to happen. But typically if I'm working with someone and they're like, 'oh, like my doctor wants to take out my gallbladder.' I'm like, 'give me six months.'
Kendra: Like just, you know, give me six months. Like, I think we can. And typically they won't need to get it removed. It's just because their bile has become thick, luggy and toxic, and we need to kind of thin it out and move it through the gallbladder and make it like viscous again, like that word, viscous.
Kendra: Okay. So the last thing that we have to consider when we're making or building a detoxification program is that excretion part. And so we always want to be taking a binder, something that will help bind to toxins and move it out so that they're not getting recirculated. Typically fiber will do that. The most commonly known binders are things like charcoal, bentonite clay, psyllium husk or, chitosan, which is a shellfish fiber. So if you're allergic to fish, that's not an option. But the thing about those binders that is unfortunate is they, they do bind to all the crap, but they also bind to minerals and pulled them out of the body. So they're not a great long term strategy. So what I use instead, my favorite binder of all time is modified citrus pectin. It's basically just the rind of citrus fruits, and it's great because if you, if it's modified properly, if the people who make it modify it properly, it will get all the crap, all the toxins, all the metals, all the chemicals, even glyphosate, but it does not fuck with the minerals. It doesn't pull them out at all. So the company that has proven that they do this properly is Econugenics. So that's the only company I recommend for modified citrus pectin, because they backed up their shit with a lot of research. A lot of companies will say they make modified citrus pectin but they actually don't modify it properly. And then you're pulling out minerals with toxins which you don't want to do.
Christine: Amazing. So I had no idea. So I'm super like, 'WHHAAAT?'
Kendra: WHAAAT? So I've got some in my tea right now, I take it in my tea every single morning. It's a supplement. When people ask me, 'Hey, I'm on a budget, what's the one supplement I should take?' I always say the citrus pectin because it pulls out all that crap out of your body that we are getting exposed to. It's very safe. It helps boost glutathione. It helps stimulate the immune system. And so everyone should drink it every morning and thier tea.
Christine: I'm going to get that straight away. Like, I'm going to order that today.
Kendra: Yeah. So it's Econugenics Pectasol-C. Get like the, the big thing will cost you like $100, which seems expensive, but at five grams a day it lasts you three months. So it's not too bad.
Christine: That's totally fine. I mean it's like, it as I always say, this is just our vessel, right? We're just here because of this vessel that is our body. If we can help it to be less toxic. It's easy, you know, like.
Kendra: Yeah, totally. I totally agree. It's so important. Like, I mean I have, I have like a health budget, like I have like set aside money every month for what I assigned on my health because it's very, very important to me. It's a priority. I can't do my job. I can't be happy if I don't have my health. Right? So I think investing in our health is something we all need to be doing.
Christine: Yes. Agreed. Much more so than software, you can live without one software.
Kendra: Arg, I love software though. Dammit.
Christine: Me too, but like seriously, some of them are so expensive, their like $50 a month, were I'm like, 'Oh God.'
Kendra: Well everyone's on like a membership model now. Hey? It drives me crazy. I'm like, just give me a one-time fee.
Christine: Yes. But you know, instead you can just buy the supplements instead, you know, and it's going to make you produce a lot more too, which is good.
Kendra: Yeah, exactly. It's really good stuff. A lot of people feel really good on it, so highly recommend it. And then the other thing you want to be thinking about is actually like, okay, so we're binding, but we want to be actually forcing that excretion. Sauna therapy is probably one of the best ways to do this. It's the most well researched. It's really easy to get swept things through the skin. Right. And a lot of us don't sweat that much, especially if you know, me and Christine live in like of the northern latitudes right now it's winter. We're not sweating that much. I just came from Costa Rica and literally all I did was sweat like a Mofo for three weeks [inaudible].
Christine: I am a sweater. Like when it's hot, I sweat like a really great sweater, but there's many funny this, my nose, is like my main sweating organ, I kid you not.
Kendra: Really? Oh my God, that's so funny.
Christine: Nothing in my face well start sweating but just my nose, and you can literary see the drops like forming. I don't know why.
Kendra: That's funny. I mean I'm definitely a face sweater. I'm like, it's funny because when we go ski touring or like hiking like, with like, you know, the girls, they have all their hair out, their hair is so nice and mine's just like shellacked to my head and I'm like, 'Oh God, why do you guy look so good. I'm just so disgusting right now.'
Christine: Yeah. But I'm taking hot baths regularly. You know like, really hot baths that make me sweat. Like completely, like you know, oohh.
Kendra: Yeah, those actually work really well.
Christine: Yeah, exactly. You have the steam, you have the heat, you sweat it in the water so you don't necessarily notice it. But it's like you notice it afterwards because your body is like parched.
Christine: And then obviously the mindful for what kind of body lotion, put on too, because it's going to absorb it.
Kendra: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And I mean, that's a good point because, you can, if you don't own a sauna or you don't have access to a sauna, you can do baths, you can do a really hot bath which will help you sweat. But, you know, any sauna we'll do like, it doesn't need to be infrared. I know infrared Saunas are big hype these days, but it can just be like the sauna that's at your local fitness center or gym or whatever. I actually own an infrared sauna, I have one sitting right over there. I love it. Best investment of my life. It's great because you can actually be in it. You probably need one in your office. [inaudible]
Christine: I need one. I am actually considering putting one into my office because I do have enough space. I just find it. It might look a little bit weird when clients come here and [inaudible].
Kendra: Yeah, I don't see clients here, but, just you know...
Christine: [inaudible] but I do have this space. It's huge. It's like massive. My new office is massive.
Christine: I just saw a really good deal recently, on an Expo model infrared Saunas that I love. I was like, 'Ohhh.'
Kendra: It's definitely a game changer. I bought mine last year and things have really shifted for me since owning it, you know, like I use it on a regular basis, three to four times a week, you know, I get all the great benefits from the infrared, right. It's really good for skin. It has a lot of good anti-aging. It has weight loss benefits, but yeah, the sweating is what matters. And so, you know, obviously infrared, you can spend less, you don't have to stay in it as long or, and you can stay in it longer. Right? It heats you from the inside out, because I know when you go to like a wood fired sauna, like you breathe it into your lungs and it's hard to stay in. But The infrared, like it has that extra benefit of, of allowing you to stay in longer. But really in the end just get a sauna, like try to make that a regular part of your health regimen. You should be recommending it to your clients. The other thing you can do, that can be helpful. A lot of people are super freaked out by them, but are coffee enemas.
Christine: Yeah, I have. My client last weekend and she was talking about a hydro colon therapy, which is a little bit like a coffee enema on steroids,
Christine: Work with hot water, hot water and pressure and it's kind of painful really.
Christine: It is really painful. You have the impression that you get [inaudible]. But coffee enemas are super relaxed, like.
Kendra: Oh yeah.
Christine: Get out of your head that your butt is a horrible place, right. It's actually much less worse than hydro colon therapy or colon therapy,
Christine: and you can just relax with it if you just let yourself go a little.
Kendra: And it's so true. And you know, it's so funny because I always tell my clients and my group members, I'm like, you know, just be open minded give it a go because most people are freaked out and then they fall in love. Like literally they fall in love with putting coffee up their butt.
Christine: I know, it's like this warm and fuzzy feeling and then afterwards it feels like a new born, and it's easy and we'll get specific. Not specific, but there's a very good video of a lady doing it on YouTube. Like you don't see every detail, you do see her doing it basically.
Christine: And it just shows you how simply it is, right? And it's just like, it's just a hole people, you know, it's like.
Kendra: Yeah, I think people are weird about their butt.
Christine: I know.
Kendra: But I mean personally I love pooping. I love to poop. It's just my favorite thing in the entire world. That's definitely tmi. But I'm into it. But yeah,
Christine: You feel so much better afterwards.
Kendra: Oh yeah. And it's my time, you know, it's like I read a book, I do some meditation, like I make it sexy in there, like light some candles.
Christine: Exactly. And there's a lady called Marissa something. I don't remember her name. I met her in August and she is the poop lady something and she said like the perfect poo is the length of your elbow to your wrist? And I was like, I cannot imagine that thing, but do you know why I couldn't?
Christine: European toilets are different than US toilets. Like if you have good poop in a US toilet, you would see the whole length, in European toilets it always breaks.
Christine: You never see it in its full glory.
Kendra: Oh my God, that's so funny.
Christine: So there you go people.
Kendra: Oh Man. That's such a, that is a great piece of information. I'm going to remember that with my European clients if you like, don't worry. You don't see the whole coil in the toilet because your toilets weird.
Christine: There you go, Kendra is rocking your world with science and I know that toilets work differently when pooping.
Kendra: We each bring something very important to the table.
Kendra: Yep, totally.
Christine: Tip of a tube that is much smaller.
Kendra: Yeah. It's very small and you know, the, the, what actually is happening with them. If this is your first time hearing about them and you're like, well, why would you put coffee up here? But it's because of the caffeine in the coffee. Once it's in the colon, it actually goes directly into the hepatic portal system, which is like the little capillary system that connects the colon to the liver and the gallbladder. And when the caffeine gets to the liver, gallbladder actually causes them to contract and run bile through and dump the bile. So it's a great way to help yourself like detox that bile. So it's a very mechanical way to detox the liver. And, you know, I know for natural cancer therapies, I mean they all have people doing these like three to six times a day just because that's how toxic people with cancer are. And so they're, you know, they're very safe to do. They tap it, typically make you feel good. Most people don't react to the caffeine the way you would if you drank a cup of coffee. Some people find them stimulating. I mean if you're going to try it for the first time, you should probably do it earlier in the day just to make sure. But I mean, I love them. I do them regularly. My boyfriend thinks I'm crazy. We joke around about butt coffee all the time.
Christine: [inaudible] he's like, 'why don't you want to do anal if you do that?'
Kendra: Oh my God, I love that. [inaudible]
Christine: [inaudible] Well we have to edit this out.
Kendra: Nah, we'll just leave it in.
Christine: Like yeah, it's seriously. It's not, it's, put some music on. Like literally put some soft music on, get into the groove of just relaxing and just, it's literally something great for your body. Your body will love it.
Kendra: Yeah. Yeah, totally. Most people really like them after they've done them. So. So yeah. So that's what you need. So you know, if you want to create like, you know, we're coming into this episode is probably going to be released at being in January. Obviously January is a big time for the health industry for launching things because that's, you know, people spend December ruining their health and then in January they were ready for a new start. So this is a good time to create a detox program for your clients, right? So just make sure you're doing something to, immobilize toxins. You're doing something to boost that detoxification and then you're doing something to stimulate excretion and that's actually gonna get your clients results. That's actually going to make them feel good. And then the other thing I just wanted to mention is really think about things you can be doing on a daily basis to help yourself detox, because detox does need to be a daily thing. And you can, it doesn't need to be this big thing, you know, like I, will have a small cup of organic coffee first thing in the world because that helps stimulate bile. I have salty water first thing in the morning because it has minerals and minerals help you detox. Like, you know, I eat my bitter foods, I drink my dandelion tea, I get in the sauna, I do a coffee enema. Like there's things that you can be doing on a regular basis that we should be doing because we really do need to think about it daily because on a given day, who the fuck knows how much shit is getting into your body.
Christine: Yeah, and you will feel so much better. You will be more alert, will have better energy, you will sleep better, your skin will look amazing. So it's the only benefits people. It's literally one benefits and you can do small things. You don't have to, you know, worrying about not having enough time to lay down on the floor and do a coffee enema. It's just an example that we gave you enough options that you can definitely do.
Kendra: Totally, yeah, just putting that modified citrus pectin into your tea every morning is a good detox strategy as well. And you know, with detox, I think the most important thing to keep in mind is the goal is not to do it quickly, fast detox is not safe. Because we accumulate so many toxins over our lifetime. Like we might be detoxing things that have been on our bodies since we were kids. Right? If you're a child of the 80's, like us, you ate a lot of butter or not butter, margarine and toxic like cheese and all kinds of weird shit, right. The 80's is like the worst time [inaudible] right?
Kendra: What was considered healthy in the 80's is like pretty disgusting. So there's a good chance me and Christine have margarine sitting in our tissues.
Christine: It's right here. I can tell you exactly where it is.
Kendra: Oh my God. Yeah. So, you know, slow, long term detox is key and wants to be gentle. I don't recommend quick detox and it's something that you should do more than once a year. I mean, you design a little, like 10 day detox, you know, do it several times a year. Launch it as a group program, right? Like, wouldn't that be a great group program to do a 30 day detox where you spend a couple of weeks like helping people like build up and kind of pre-prepare for it. Do 10 day detox that includes these three things we just talked about and then do some sort of final, you know, recovery, restoration thing, like that could be a really great 30 day group program that you could launch a couple of times a year. Right.
Christine: And your testimonials will go through the roof.
Kendra: Yes. Yeah, yeah. I think. I think we really need to educate people on what detox actually is and how to actually do it and why it's not just, you know, like I go crazy when people are like, 'Oh, I did the master cleanse.] I'm like, okay, you just starved yourself and eat sugar for three weeks. Great. You know, or those detoxes.
Christine: Yes. And we are supposed to be like, 'YAY.'Gosh.
Kendra: Yeah. There's a lot of weird things out there that they detox, like, yeah, those weird wraps. And I'm the wild rose cleanse. I'm not trying to bash these companies, but the wild rose cleanse that people do, it's just like, it's not really a detox. Sorry guys. These companies [inaudible].
Christine: No no.
Kendra: All right.
Christine: My end, I didn't know my Wifi is weird today, but. Okay. I think that's pretty much it. Don't forget, this is a lot to take in. We have it in the show notes on our website 360healthbizpodcast.com, where you'll find links for all the products that can Kendra mentioned today and you have a complete detox program right there. It's all there. You can literally just go and highlight it and print it out and then you have it ready for you to use, and it's going to be efficient, it's scientifically backed up. It's going to be amazing, so everything is right there, so don't forget to check that out and if you've learned, here's my challenge for you, if you have learned anything knew during this episode, in-concluding difference between US and European toilets, then please go to iTunes right now and leave us a five star review.
Kendra: Yeah, and it's so easy to do, like if you're on the app right now, you literally just go to the search bar search 360healthbizpodcast and then you can actually go in and do a little like five-star review. It literally takes two minutes and helps us get out there. If you want to support us, you think we're kind of cool even just a little bit. That would be the best way to tell us.
Christine: And we are, I mean, we totally are, but it's like, yeah, even if we teach you something, if there was anything you learned, that would be amazing.
Kendra: Yeah. We want to know. Awesome. Well, it was super fun hanging out with you Christine.
Christine: As always.
Kendra: As always and, we'll see you guys in the next episode.
Christine: And we're recording this in December 2018. So all of you guys have a happy holidays. Even if you're listening to this in 2025 and we've changed our opinion already, never mind. We're still wishing you a beautiful 2019.
Kendra: Awesome. Take care Christine.
Tools mentioned in this episode:
Living Matrix The new standard for functional medicine. Your partner in creating superior, life-changing patient health outcomes.
Clinician Business Labs An online incubator for clinician entrepreneurs. A platform to assist clinicians scale and amplify their businesses.
- Grab our FREE Practitioner Tool Kit to get a list and review of all the platforms Kendra and Christine use personally in their businesses to save time, money and generate consistent income.
About Meghan Walker:
Dr. Meghan Walker is a naturopathic doctor and Entrepologist, focusing on the health optimization of female entrepreneurs and game changers. As an entrepreneur, Meghan started and sold her first business while in University and is a Co-founder and past CEO of the digital health media start-up, Bright Almond. She is the host of the Entrepology Podcast, Founder of Entrepology Labs, creator of the women's performance supplement line, Badass Basics and Chief Cheerleader at Clinician Business Labs - a platform to assist clinicians scale and amplify their businesses.
Meghan is fueled by the core belief that when people are well, they can change the world. Meghan views women as natural entrepreneurs, physiologically predestined for creation. She is driven to support them in achieving this potential by optimizing their health and mindset. Meghan has spoken internationally and through multiple media outlets on topics related to women's performance health and entrepreneurship. Most importantly, Meghan is the mother to three little girls, who is raising alongside her superstar husband in Toronto Ontario.
Contact Meghan Walker:
Christine: Hello everyone and welcome to this episode of the 360 HealthBiz Podcast with myself, Christine Hansen, and usually Kendra Perry who is chilling in a hammock in Costa Rica right now. So I got myself another partner in crime for today's episode and we are here with Meghan Walker, and we're going to talk all things business. But first, if you do like our episode, if you do like listening to us, don't forget to head over to iTunes to leave us an amazing review and you can also see the video live or actually not live, but you can see it on our blog, 360healthbizpodcast.com.
And so without further ado, I'm going to present Meghan to you so that you know who we're going to talk to. So Dr. Meghan Walker is a naturopathic doctor and Entrepologist focusing on the health optimization of female entrepreneurs and game changers. So that's you guys out there. Even if you're not a female, I suppose she could still help you. As an entrepreneur, Meghan started and sold her first business while in University and is a Co-founder and past CEO of the digital health media start-up, Bright Almond. She is the host of the Entrepology Podcast, Founder of Entrepology Labs, creator of the women’s performance supplement line, Badass Basics, adore, by the way, love that name, Chief Cheerleader at Clinician Business Labs, watch out for that, we're going to talk more about it. A platform to assist clinicians scale and amplify their businesses. So I'm going to stop there, there's much more to say you can check out the complete bio on our notes, on our show notes. But Meghan, welcome so much to this episode. I'm so excited to have you.
Meghan: Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Christine: So I'm really, really happy because Kendra and I, we both love talking business. We really, really do. And that's why that's one of the reasons why we created this podcast because I think it's really important, especially if you're in the health sector, it's different and other businesses, right? It's not like money coaching or you know, other business coaching. It's very, very different animals, so we love to talk to people who've, you know, walk the talk, who have had a successful career and who you know, can share tips with our listeners. Now the first thing that we'll usually do is we share a trick of the trade tool, so something that we love to use in our businesses and I ask, I ambushed you a little bit with this one,
Christine: But if there was one that you really liked, which one would it be?
Meghan: Well, you know, I have. I asked if I could have more than one, but I'm going to focus on one. You know, we have a tool that we use in our office and this is a cool hybrid between a health and business and it's called Living Matrix, and Living Matrix is a female run company out of New York. And this is a functional medicine platform and what Living Matrix enables you to do, is you can either have it on the front of your, your site and prospective patients can come and they can complete the questionnaire or you can give it to your patients in subsequent follow-ups. And it literally built out this functional medicine Matrix and where their body is stressed and where it's compensating and it becomes this really amazing tool because then you sit down with your patients, they completed it online, they're told that they get a result, and they can book an appointment with you to sit down and go through it, because. And I understand the functional medicine matrix is beyond the average person.
Meghan: They can't do it, they can't grab strategy from it. And so it becomes this really incredible platforms. So I use it as a practitioner. I still see patients because it's a way of me aggregating data in a unique way, but it's also this really incredible way of bringing new patients...
Meghan: and creating curiosity. So Living Matrix...
Christine: 'There's your problem, now hire me,'it's...
Meghan: Yeah, I don't work for them. I just like it. Yeah. No, it's great. It's great tool.
Christine: This is fantastic. I'm going to add that to the show notes for sure. Living Matrix. And I'm going to check it out, like I've never heard of it before.
Meghan: Oh yeah, no, it's great.
Christine: So there we go. We can stop now. That's fine. No I'm kidding.
Meghan: Thanks everyone.
Christine: Bye. No, literally, I'm mind blown. Okay. I'm going to check it out, people before you head off to check it out, finish and listen to the episode first, but what will happen in the show notes. But Megan obviously, I chose you to be a guest because we love to learn more about running a business, right? And health business is just different and you have successfully created this platform. So I want you to talk a little bit more about that. And also I find a lot of the people that I talked to have invested a lot of money in traditional business coaches,
Christine: Who usually train business coaches, right?
Christine: So, and they find that a lot of strategies just don't quite work. So maybe you can explain why and maybe things that you have found are just different.
Meghan: Yes. So but, if just stopped me because I have this tendency to talk, but my background is as a naturopathic doctor. And, I was, I was drawn to this profession. Secondary to an interest that I had in business. So as you mentioned, I had a business, I had sold it and, and I grew up in a fairly entrepreneurial family, so that was a given that I was going to go into that field and then I discovered naturopathic medicine and I was like, 'oh, so such a smart way of thinking.'
Meghan: Right, and so I couldn't, I couldn't shake it. So I was like, all right, fine, I'll go. [inaudible] I went through this through this lens and, and I set up a practice and we started to build that practice, and we tried a few things and some things worked and some things didn't. But, you know, one of the things I realized early on in, in my career is that I had a profession where I understood why everyone needed me, but consumers in turn did not understand why they needed to come and see me.
Christine: [inaudible] Yes.
Meghan: Right? So when you have a business where your service is incredibly valuable and your level of responsibility and, education means that you're going to command a certain price point, but then consumers have no idea why you're valuable. You're marketing costs are so disproportionate. And so what it did is it created this, this landscape where I was like, man, we've got all these incredible practitioners with a body of knowledge that could truly transform healthcare and they don't know how to talk to consumers because there's this complete disconnect. And I was sort of fascinated by it, and I was also really frustrated for my colleagues just because I was like, I have really incredible clinician colleagues who could be really transforming the health of people and they don't, they don't know what to do. And so I sold my practice to my business partner five years in and I decided to establish a micro-practice myself. But then I was like, I want to look at how we can expand access to consumers to practitioners. And so really went deep on that to understand what people were doing well, what people weren't doing well. For me, my own. I had, I had some natural knack with respect to business in my back pocket and started to do some strategy work with practitioners. And I consider myself more strategist than a coach.
Christine: And my area of expertise is really understanding how do we create expandable, scalable practices for practitioners that don't deplete them, that doesn't mean they're treating more time for hours. And doesn't always mean they're going online.
Christine: Oh, I have tears like in my eyes.
Meghan: So wait, but you asked what's different, right? And I have practices where like I need people to stop telling me that I can only exist in the online space because they're like, 'I want to see people, but I'm burning out.' So we build these really interesting hybrid programs where they can leverage the online space and in-office space we helped them create transformational in-office programs so they can teach to colleagues. So they can either licensed their methodology or they can bring in other colleagues to work in there and practice it, you work a fraction of the time but your whole team is delivering your care model. So we really start to teach people frameworks to expand their way of thinking, because not only do I think we deserve to earn a really great living, but I think that we also, through the use of innovative thinking, we can reach more people. And so it had practitioners all the time, I'm just going to lower my rates to make myself more accessible and I was like, 'you will not do that. You're going to innovate to become more accessible. You are not going to commoditize yourself.' So we just have a lot of different frameworks that we, that we use, we do. We spend a lot of time really helping practitioners understand their worth and value, and then build out a business plan that is unique and different but ultimately helps, helps people. And so we ran a big event here in the fall called, impact lives, and we made a public declaration that by 2025 we want to help 50 million people reach green practitioners,
Christine: Oh my god.
Meghan: which means we have to make a lot of practitioners,
Meghan: expand their reach. And so that's, that's what we're committed to doing.
Christine: Oh, mind blown.
Meghan: Like, like big, big, big, big goals. Because this is really powerful what we're doing, so.
Christine: [inaudible] absolutely.
Christine: I think there's so many people. Like personally I have a business model where I would never [inaudible], I would always just work with a handful of clients. That's what I chose to do, but I do know so many people who are like, the heart's desire is to help as many people as they can. Right. So it's, both are fine, you know, both models are absolutely fine,
Christine: but if you ask someone, and I think the typical practitioner that I have in my head, that's probably your client I would say, is someone who has that idea, you know, who has already conformed. So is asking, I don't know, $60 an hour, I don't know. Average. Something like that is working 40 hours, minimum, maybe 40 hours, seeing people a week, but then having all the back work, you know, getting prepped and all that stuff is coming on top of that. So more of a 60 hour week. What is the first thing that you usually tell them to do? Or what is the one step where you say, okay, that needs to be the groundwork before we can do anything else?
Meghan: Yeah, I usually take them out of practice at least one day a week.
Meghan: We just, we just slash it from their schedule. So there's massive trepidation, and then we usually increase their rates by 30%, because we create some innovative ways for people to access them. But we do that because everyone gets caught in this model where they're working in their business and they have no foreseeable way to start working on their business and they start doing it at night once the kids are down and it's like 8 o'clock in the evening and they're exhausted and they maybe poured a glass of wine and then their like, 'I'm going to work on my business?' You're not, like, you're not gonna work on your business, you're gonna look at one email and you're gonna go to bed.
Meghan: So we just take an entire day off their, off their schedule. And I remember the first time I did that for myself, I tripled my income within the next quarter.
Christine: That's crazy.
Meghan: I just honed in on my, on my, on my strategies and I blew through that myth that I need to see more people to make more money because that has a ceiling and you can't burst through it. So, yep. So take people out of work.
Christine: So when you say 'innovative,' like for me, innovative is obviously something new or something that has existed, but in a new way, what would be one of the techniques that you would say it's actually not brand new, but we just do it in an in a way that hasn't been done before? So what would be one thing that you can see in practitioners eyes when you tell them go like, 'oh,' you know, like this 'ting,' mind blown.
Meghan: Right. Well yeah. So sometimes yes, sometimes it's about like reaching more people and then sometimes it's about how do you leverage your existing platform so you're not wasting time redoing the same thing. So for example, I have got some really great colleagues near me and they've thought out these incredible group coaching programs, and if you want to see the practitioner one-on-one, you've got to graduate to the group coaching program first. So they don't have to do months of like, this is what gluten is, and this is how you take out dairy and, and this is what your hormones should look like, you go through the curriculum before you have access to that practitioner, and they're building a community at the same time. So you know, we know that community is so vital and critical to someone's health and so they built that. So these people are feeling amazing before they even walk into the practitioner's office. So the works really easy. Another example would be the utilization of health coaches in a practice. So if you're a clinician and then I see my role as a naturopathic doctor to set strategy for my patients, but I can't be on the phone with them everyday to implement, and it's the implementation that's gonna make a difference for them. So getting strategy based practitioners to start to leverage people who are highly trained in implementation is a game changer for everyone, creates new income streams in it and it shifts things around. So those would be two examples where we can just innovate in the delivery of care and those weren't even technology dependent.
Meghan: Technology. Right. And the technology example might be, you know, if we're doing, like a really comprehensive hormonal evaluation or it gut health evaluation, I could sit for an hour and explain it to a patient or I could record a five minute video and uploaded into their patient portal and ask them to watch it and then after bring any questions to the visit. And now we're having a 20 minute follow-up, not a one hour follow up. It took me 10 minutes to create an uninterrupted video and they can go back and watch it. So there's lots of ways of creating efficiency through innovation that's not, it's not expensive, it's just about bringing a creative lens to the stuff we've already got.
Christine: Alright. So I'm going to play the devil's advocate here because I love what you're saying. Absolutely. But I can hear people, you know, have this little voice creeping up, 'but if I have a coach working with me, obviously I can't charge as much because I have to split with a coach or if I'm just going to send that video, obviously I can't charge as much because I don't spend as much time with them.' I guess these are, you know, objections you hear all the time.
Christine: Why is that not true?
Meghan: Yeah, I love that question. Here's what that question assumes and where we're stuck, when we're asking that question, the assumption is the only value that you're giving people is your time. And I would say the most valuable thing you're giving people is your strategic thinking and your body of knowledge. And for my patient base, the more efficient I can be in my appointments, the more grateful they are because they've got busy stuff to do. So if I can bring them in and say these resources are already in your portal and as I've linked you to this video and Dah, Dah, it's all there and we're just going to touch base and set strategies, they're like, 'Amazing, thank you.' And I say to them, 'Right now. Now you're going to meet with your health coach.' They're like, 'thank you.' It doesn't cut into my rates. It's still just, it's the same price to come and see me because you're buying my strategy. You're not buying my time.
Christine: Oh my God, this is so true. And it's also your clients, their time is precious.
Meghan: Their time is precious. Yep.
Christine: It's so funny. I have, my program has two different. I have three programs, but basically two of them are exactly the same except that one takes 6 successions and the other is one day, because we do everything in one day.
Christine: One day one starts from 10k because those people are just like, I don't have time for six sessions, you know? So it's just, it's also respecting their time because they are like, I prefer having a Saturday or Sunday where we'll break out into this and you know, work hard and then I have follow up if I need to because they are doers. So it's time, it's just, it's not your time. It's their time as well. So how do you communicate that element? Because I think people, it's not just the practitioners who have this mind-set, right, that it's like the time that it's been paid for,
Christine: but sometimes a certain type of client has the same kind of idea. How do you communicate that strategy is what you pay for instead of time and it is logical, but what would it be like, for example, a sentence or something that you've noticed that when your clients are saying it, their patients actually get.
Meghan: Yeah, so we just. We spent a lot of time really understanding what the outcome is that our patients want to achieve, and then asking the question, how do you know when you're going to be successful? And so when we, when we lay those pieces out in front of them, then we said, part of our methodologies, we're going to build a strategy and we tell them right in that meet and greet appointment, that appointment they're not even paying for where they're just getting to see if there's good alignment. They're like, this is how we work, so we're highly committed to outcome for you and we have two layers of people who are gonna help you, the strategists, and the implementers, and here's why we've seen them be successful. And then at that point if people are like, 'No, I just want to spend three hours with my naturopath.' I'm like, 'Great. I have tons of people I can refer you to. It's not how we work,' and what I've historically seeing, because I get pushed back from new entities, because they're like, 'No, we don't want to say no to the patient,' and they really want to, they want to work on diet with the patient, for example, because they want a reason to bring them back and charge them for another visit. But what I see happening is you have a practitioner who should be working as the strategist, who sees the patient for all the implementation and you can't get through much. So by the time someone's benefits are expired or they've just lost interest in the process. All you've done is take a dairy and gluten and put them on a multivitamin and they're like, 'Ah, naturopathic medicine doesn't really work.'
Christine: Yeah, it's just a generic kind of stuff.
Christine: It's not.
Meghan: It's really not. It's actually really sophisticated what we're doing. So where we can leverage different individuals to, [inaudible] something like apps to coach, not necessarily health coaches, but where we can use different things to help with that implementation piece. We want to do that because that's gonna, that's gonna make or break patient, patient success and I just don't have enough time to do that.
Christine: Yep. And I find that high quality care is actually a person with a great referral network, you know, saying, 'Look, this is not my boathouse. I'm super great at this, but here is my network and I think this person would be amazing for you.' And that's also I find a sign of being a person of integrity and being a person who has a certain standard in class. Literally. Because you have that network of amazing people and you know what is the most efficient for your client. And clients love that. Clients love to know, okay, well connected Dah, Dah, Dah, Dah, Dah. I get the best care of whatever is possible. Even if it's not like that person itself, which is totally fine. It's much better than the mind-set of I need to keep everything for myself. It's just not worth it. The more you let it go, the more revenue will come in. It's crazy like that. It's like.
Meghan: Yes. Yep. My best referral sources are from people who I've actually never treated, but saw and referred out to other high quality along the line people and they're like. And they just, they just keep sending new people. It's amazing. It's amazing.
Christine: And it's, it's what I say all the time. Also I niche on a certain type of person. Right? So I'm just, my price tag is not for everyone and one of the things that I always say is I don't take it personally if you find it too expensive, right. And that's when people are like, 'Oh, thank you.'
Meghan: Yeah, absolutely.
Christine: But being honest like that, that's what is creating a bond that goes even beyond working with them one on one afterwards.
Meghan: Right. Yeah.
Christine: So walk me a little bit through your process when. Okay. I can imagine that I have lots of people who are listening right now and they're like, 'Oh my God, I want to work with her. I want to know what her company is like, how can I get on board? I totally need this.' So what, what we through the process of how do people get in touch with you, what do you usually do? What would it look like?
Meghan: Yeah. So we have two core, we have two of our core programs that we offer. One is called the first 18, and the first 18 is really designed for is a foundational business program and we originally launched it for new practitioners and it was like, what are all the strategic business things you need to understand from the second you get your license through that first 18 months of practice. And so this is everything from marketing strategy, to financial planning, to operational strategy, because I just want to help people think like an entrepreneur. And so that, that's our, that's our foundational program that a lot of, while we intended for it to be for new practitioners, we have a lot of people who are like 10 years out like, 'Actually, I feel like I never got the basics.' So that's often where people start and then we have, a more advanced program called the clinician code, and the clinician code is a one-year program for practitioners, and we're gonna look at doing a six-minute version, but there's a lot of material to cover. And what we do for practitioners over the course of the year is we help them find their area of authority within the marketplace, and then develop an in office transformational program. And so one of our area of expertise is to work with regulated practitioners who have to work with, with regulators, but how do we help them start to build out strategic programming. And usually the implementation of that becomes a hybrid of an in office program and some elements that are online. But we talked about things exactly like we talked about today. How do we create innovation within tools that you already have within your practice? And what we really want for people to have at the end of that is a full transformational program that they could then choose to license if they wanted to license, that they could grow out within their practice if they wanted to do that. How do we build on residual income opportunities on top of that, but it becomes the backbone upon which we build all these other elements of their practice. So that's what we really look at accomplishing in that when your program. And then I do take on a really small number of private coaching clients on a quarterly basis.
Christine: I love it. I absolutely love it. I have one last question. I know that you have a sweet spot for female entrepreneurs, but you do this for men and women don't you?
Meghan: Yes, I do. So in my, in my medical practice, that's where I work a lot with female entrepreneurs, but in our coaching with Clinician Business Labs, yeah we'll work with everybody. But I mean there's so many women in healthcare now.
Christine: I know.
Meghan: It's, it's, it's amazing. And, you know, I had, when we, when I launched my start-up and we were doing funding and I was flying back and forth to California and I was pregnant with my third child and I, so like I get it and that's part of the conversation that I can have with women is, how do you build up a clinical practice and how do you build up any kind of business while you're also, like, you got little people and, and how do you balance all of that? And, and, it's just, it's another area I'm really passionate about, but it's why I ended up having this conversation with, with women is we're in a, we're in a unique position, where we're trying to build a family and a business at the same time.
Christine: I totally agree. I absolutely love this. I'm going to be very blunt. I have kind of an idea what you did, but not really.
Meghan: No problem. Those are the best interviews, right?
Christine: But we did meet or we did connect through the mindshare group. So everyone is out there who hasn't joined joint mindshare yet, have a look. It's an amazing community, by Jj Virgin and Karl Krummenacher. Is that his name? I think so. Check it out. Made amazing connections there. So that's how we got, somehow got into each other's spheres. But I have to say I'm really, really, really happy that you've been on this podcast because it's completely in our boathouse and inlined with what we preach and how we run our businesses. So this has been phenomenal. So last question, we're going to have everything in the show notes, but when people are fired up right now and they're like, I need this, how do they get in touch with you or your team?
Meghan: Yeah. So you can always find us at our website. It's clinicianbusinesslabs.com. And probably the fastest way to link to that is just through Instagram. And my Instagram handle is @DrMeghanWalker. Meghan with an H. [inaudible]
Christine: That's so interesting. Instagram, huh?
Meghan: Yeah. Oh yeah. I hired through Instagram. We like, we hang out on Instagram a lot.
Christine: That's. See that's like a whole other topic, we need to reschedule. Kendra is huge on Instagram too, like I kind of dabbled around with it but I don't really get it, but yeah. Okay, good. Well it's trade marketing. Obviously, it seems to work. So, okay. I'm super excited. Thank you so much for sharing this wisdom,
Meghan: Such a pleasure.
Christine: like it's been lots of light bulb moments and I just know that so many of you listening this is going to be such a shortcut, like and, I cannot recommend getting help enough, like trying to, figuring it out on your own. It's not worth it. Really get some help and I think you know Meghan and your team, you would probably be amazing at this, so I hope that lots of people will reach out. I love what you shared with us today. Thank you so much. And if you guys out there like the two, then leave us a five star review on iTunes. You can also become a patron of the show. It's all on 360healthbizpodcast.com where you will also find the transcripts and the show notes and the links about everything that we talked about today. So thank you so much Meghan.
Meghan: Such a pleasure.
Christine: And we will be back in two weeks together with Kendra that time. And, I hope you have a wonderful well, Thanksgiving as we are recording this. It's probably going to be later, but you know, then it's going to be thanksgiving, 2019 or 20, whatever. It's gonna be a new one. So I'm happy Thanksgiving for all of you guys and we'll be talking in two weeks. Bye.
Tools mentioned in this episode:
Provider Resilience Application that gives healthcare providers tools to guard against burnout and compassion fatigue as they help them. Available for all devices and free.
Breathe2Relax Application that is a portable stress management tool which provides detailed information on the effects of stress on the body and instructions. Available for all devices and free.
- Grab our FREE Practitioner Tool Kit to get a list and review of all the platforms Kendra and Christine use personally in their businesses to save time, money and generate consistent income.
- Grab Dr. Hallett’s FREE guide, “10 Steps to Being Stress-Smart & Becoming Your Own Best Friend.” http://bit.ly/ownbestfriend
About Kristina Hallett:
Board Certified Clinical Psychologist and Executive Coach, Kristina Hallett combines science and soul for practical, fast results. She uses her decades of psychological experience and down-to-earth approach to facilitate progress and change. Her mission is to bring the latest scientific research to practical application, helping people feel more empowered and productive. Kristina is also an associate professor, speaker, author, and co-host of the Be Awesome Podcast, featured on Mental Health News Radio. She has been featured widely in the media, including U.S. News and World Report, NBC News, Reader’s Digest, Huffington Post, Medium, Bustle, and many other outlets.
Contact Kristina Hallett:
Christine: Alright everyone, hello and welcome to this episode of the 360HealthBiz podcast, and today you will have me on my own without Kendra, who is actually lounging in a hammock in Costa Rica at the moment. Bless her, not jealous at all, but I do have wonderful company. I have Dr. Kristina Hallett with me and we are going to talk all things burnout. So today is going to be a continuous education episode for you guys. And so let me introduce Kristina very quickly to you. So she's a board certified clinical psychologist and executive coach, a combination which I adore. She combined signs and so on for practical fast results. Killer combo, the only thing that works in my opinion, she uses decades of psychological experience and down to earth approach to facilitate progress and change. Her mission is to bring the latest scientific research to practical application, helping people feel more empowered and productive. Kristina is also an associate professor, speaker, author, and co-host of Be Awesome podcast featured on Mental Health News Radio. She has also been featured widely in the media, including US news and World Report, NBC News, Readers Digest, Huffington Post, Medium Bustle, and many other outlets. So we are here with a pro. I am super excited. Kristina, welcome so much to our episode here.
Kristina: Oh, thank you Christine. I am delighted to be here. This is so much fun. I love is. How wrong is it that I say, I love talking about burnout and compassion fatigue, right? Because...
Christine: Most of us, we love talking about poop as well, right?
Kristina: Exactly. Yes, exactly. So this is one of my sort of like, you know, Hashtag banished burnout, right?
Kristina: As long as knowledge is power and the more we know and that's so true in all of the work you do. You know, I, I have looked through, we've talked about your work and it's so impressive how you really look to bring in every element of a person's functioning. So I'm thrilled to talk with you.
Christine: Yep, absolutely. And that's what we're going to do today when we talk about burnout. So it's going to be a fantastic episode. I'm really looking forward to this. Now, before we start though, for everyone who's listening, as always, we're going to start with a tech tip and Kristina is actually going to share her favorite app today, and as always, don't forget to surf over to iTunes. Leave us a five-star review if you're like this, if you like our guests, just give us some love and you can also support the show and become a patron of the show. It's all on our website, 360healthbizpodcast.com. So Kristina, Kendra and I, we love geeking out on tech, right, like we love digital business and you have an app that you wanted to talk to us about today. And for those of you who are listening on the podcast, if you actually surf over to the blog, we are recording this and video form and you can actually see her demonstrating this, so just a quick note on the side. But without further ado, let us know what is your secret kind of weapon that you have in your arsenal.
Kristina: Oh, and there's so many of them, so it was a little hard to just pick one. But today I'm going to tell you about an app, and it's free and it's available on Android, IOS, like you name it, you can get it, it's free. And it was ultimately developed in the US as part of the, Department of Defense. It was developed for the military. There's a whole suite of apps and they're all ones that I use. And there's tons of research that went into it and they are completely appropriate for all civilians as well. So I use these in my executive coaching across the board. I also tell my students about them because I'm teaching in a graduate clinical mental health counseling program. So this is number one what providers need, and it's called Provider Resilience. What could be better? So I'm going to tell you what's on it so that listeners can hear, but I really do encourage you to go to the video because some of this you just want to see. Open up the app right at the top is a, it's like a half rainbow, and it's your overall resilience rating. And so for those of you who are watching, there it is. That's the resilience. Okay? Now I have these set up purposely, I have a separate one, so I have two of them. This one I use for demonstration purposes, you'll see why. So that half rainbow goes from low where it's red, because we usually associate red with warning signs, all the way up to green, which is good. Love that. Love green.
Kristina: And so, all of these different components that I'll describe are a part of this app and they make up your overall resilience rating. So right underneath that you can put in, this cracks me up, time since your last vacation.
Kristina: That's one of the keys for burnout, right? So in my demo, this is not the truth. This is not the truth, but I'm going to tell you that according to the app, since my last vacation, it's been two years, one month, 10 days, 23 hours and five minutes.
Christine: I would die.
Kristina: That would be so bad, right? So not only is that a ridiculous amount of time, but I love the specificity.
Kristina: It literally counts down to minutes since your vacation. So you can just add in when you're most recent vacation has been and then keep track of it because as providers, that's one of the things that we often forget to do.
Kristina: We're so busy taking care of other people and hello, we need to walk our talk and do this.
Kristina: So there's a vacation clock, there's also a section called burnout and there's a whole burnout scale that you can do, and one of the tools in this. This is why there's so much to this one app. That's why I'm like, it's just phenomenal. I talk about this in presentations I give across the US and internationally and literally people are pulling out their phones and downloading it because it's, there's so much in it. So there's something called the pro-qual, and that's the professional quality of life scale. And it's really nice to have this as a measure. It's a nice measure. It's a self-report. It's about 26 questions, and as you fill it out and then scores it for you and you get three scores, you get a compassion satisfaction score, a burnout score, and a secondary traumatic stress score.
Kristina: That gives you your overall pro-qual or your professional quality of life. So we know that as soon as you have, and I'm sort of getting into what we're talking about here, but it's all about the app, so tech and talk at the same time.
Kristina: We have to have some marker, and then we continue to do this and we compare the marker so we can see, are we making progress? Are we doing better? Which one of those particular skills is moving in which direction? Right. And it's all right here. So see down here is the pro-qual. That's, that's the pro-qual. Again, these are demonstrations but each one of them gives you a little rainbow. And it tells you, in this case, apparently, oh this is so bad. It's been 838 days since my last update of the pro-qual. So it keeps you accountable as well.
Kristina: I know, but again this is for demonstration, so I'm aloud.
Kristina: Now it has another section called Resilience Builders and Resilience Killers. And so it's got examples. And so examples of resilience builders are, did you take a short walk?
Kristina: Did you perform at debts? Stretching or isometrics? Things like that, and you can put in your own something that you've identified as a resilience builder. And then when you go to resilience killers, that you're going to love this. Did you skip lunch?
Kristina: Have you eaten junk food? Did you come to work sick today? Right? So it's got all of those different things, and then it brings you back to your dashboard. Now there's also tools. One of these tools that cracks me up is called, 'Remind me why I do this.'
Kristina: You also get a graph of your pro-qual results and a graph of your burnout results.
Kristina: And then, my, one of my, I would say this is my favorite, but they're all my favorite. There's a section on physical exercise and what it is, it's the directions on how to do various chair yoga poses.
Christine: [inaudible] I love that.
Kristina: Yes. And as you just simply scroll through, it gives you different exercises and I particularly love this. Overall, my approach for all of us as professionals is that we need things that we can do in about two or less.
Kristina: And many of these things we can do either sitting at our desk or literally when we take the bathroom break, right? And often there are so many things about counteracting burnout and working towards resilience that we say, 'oh, I just don't have the time for that.'It's going to, like we think about, 'oh, take me half an hour to get to the gym.'[inaudible]
Christine: Change and...
Kristina: Yeah. So know everything that I'm talking about are things that are free. They're accessible, and they're very brief.
Christine: No excuses people.
Kristina: Right. And oops, lost the headphones I want to listen to. So, so this one is super great. And the one caution, that it's not a caution, the one reminder that I give to people, is if you're going to do one of these exercises, make sure you do both sides because you don't want to just turn to one side and forget to turn to the other side. So do both sides. And then the final area in this particular app is something that's called value cards. They're alphabetical, so at the moment what shows up is idealism.
Kristina: And so it has a little text describing idealism, and if I swipe, then comes up independence…
Kristina: initiative. So there's another one, so there's a whole alphabet word, integrity, joyfulness. So different values that are important to us as healthcare providers, really important to us as people, but particularly when we're in the business of healthcare, we are some of the worst...
Kristina: at taking care of ourselves. And I'll use this as a teeny segway because do you know that in the most recent studies in the US on physicians and Burnout, over 70 percent of physicians who are surveyed show at least one of the characteristics of burnout.
Christine: Oh my gosh, let's get going on this because my ears are like, what? So I mean, burnout is like this term that's being thrown around all the time. You know? Yeah. Some people who use it very negatively because unfortunately, you know, it's, a lot of people don't really know what it is. They don't know what it manifests likes, there's abuse that is being, you know, I don't know, in Luxemburg in particular, there's lots of people who abuse it and they just get three weeks or three months of work because they claimed to have burnout. So I think it is first of all important to understand what it is and how it manifests, especially either to become aware that you as a practitioner might actually be going down a slippery road or, what I also find uber important, is when we're working with a client and I mean not everyone is qualified to work in that particular area. A lot of us are coaches and I find that it's our duty to know when we've reached our limits, and I find knowing that someone is on their way to a real burnout that's out of our boathouse for most of us. So for me, this is really on the one hand looking at ourselves. You just said how many practitioners are actually well on their way of suffering severe burnout. How to diagnosis or how to get good idea of what this might be going on with my client or when it's time to refer out. So I would love to talk about these areas. I know it is super vast topic, but I know you are the go to person to talk about this, so I cannot wait to soak up your knowledge on this.
Kristina: Oh, thank you. And that's literally one of the things that in my executive coaching I really specialize in because I have the psychological knowledge. So I'm a person who literally others refer to when they get to this place, when things have become too much.
Kristina: And so I love the fact that we're able to think about this. And I'm going to start off with giving you an example of a time that I discovered that I was burnt out and because it happens, it doesn't happen at the same frequency necessarily all the time, and it's not always obvious, and yet it's something we have to pay attention to. So my big personal hashtag is always radical self-care. Because that means, right? Literally paying attention to what's going on and radical self-care for me means things like setting limits and having boundaries and owning your strengths and knowing when to say no and when to say yes to you, things like that. So that's the talk that I'm always giving to everybody. Here's a day, I drive home, and usually I parked in my garage, and I walked through the garage into my house. As you walk in, there's a long table, and that's where we put the mail and other things that are going to go in or out. So every day in a row I walk in, I look at the mail, I leave things, I move things, it's fine. And usually what happens is the dogs run up to greet me and my husband comes over because he's usually home first and he gives me a hug and a kiss and I say hi and I look at the mail, blah blah blah, you know, normal, ordinary life. So I notice many days in a row that there's like a basically a lot of junk on this table, and it doesn't bother me in the slightest. 'Hi, how you doing? I add to what I take away all fine.'And then this one day I walk in, and as I walk in, the dogs come over, my husband comes over, he's smiling and saying hi. And I look at the table and I look at him and I'm like, 'what is all this mess?'And he's like, oh right. He's sort of gives me that look. And I was like, 'is anyone ever going to clean this? Like what is going on here? Why does this look like this?'And there's a pause. It's just like, 'Oh God, you know what, what is she doing?'
Christine: 'What is going on?'Yeah. Lost the plot.
Kristina: And he very gently says, 'honey, I think that's all your stuff.'
Christine: Wrong thing to say.
Kristina: Well actually, luckily because this is my area, right? And we've got to, you know, heal thyself. So I look at him like, 'you're right.'And I thought instantly what is going on? Like this was an over the top reaction.
Kristina: The scenario was no different than any other day before and yet this. And it wasn't even that much. Like you know it, this is one of those, it took like five, maybe six minutes to put everything away and clear it off. So this...
Christine: But it just triggered. Yeah.
Kristina: Total trigger total over the top irritability and reaction. And luckily we work, he and I well enough together and he knows me and if he says, if he's going to call me on the carpet and hold me accountable without sounding defensive, there's something for me to look at. It was very clear to me, as I looked at it, that I had gotten to a place, because I was loving what I was doing and busy. So it wasn't that things were bad.
Kristina: But I wasn't following the steps that I teach people regarding radical self care.
Christine: Right, ok.
Kristina: And that those little irritants had grown and grown and grown and I hadn't stopped and taken the time to shift the pathway.
Kristina: Whether it was the mess or internally, and so therefore match, tinder, boom. Off I went now it wasn't a bad episode of burden. It was like one of the early stages of that. But that kind of irritability, that's something that is an absolute emotional sign that burnout is going on.
Christine: See, I would just think, 'oh, I just had a back day. I'm a little bit tired.' You know, so I'm actually self-evaluating myself and I didn't have like a trigger like that. But it definitely feel tired and so much going on that I'm like, 'Ooh, hang on, I might need to do some yoga poses here.'
Kristina: Exactly, exactly. So let me just go over some of the different categories of symptoms that we might see.
Kristina: Obviously they, these can account for many different things because you just gave a good example. We know that you’re the sleep expert and so not having enough sleep is certainly something that can contribute to getting some of these symptoms, but not sleeping is also a sign. It's one of the very first physical signs of burnout. So chronic fatigue, insomnia, getting sick a lot, weight gain or weight loss, appetite changes. Those are some pretty significant physical signs. Also aches and pains, a lot of aches and pains are a sign that you want to pay attention. Now if you just have one or two of these, obviously we always want to look to them straight medical first, is there something going on for us physically for anything because we want to rule that out, right? So I don't know if I had pneumonia, for example, or mononucleosis. I might be very, very tired and feeling achy and sick all the time, but in the absence of a known clear physical illness...
Kristina: you need to pay attention to that. So similarly, lots of headaches, stomach aches, aching joints, fatigue, insomnia, change in appetite, and again, I know that you'll appreciate this. We might also see an increased drive for junk food, sugar, particularly sugar at nights. Yeah. So physically that's what we'll see. Emotionally, anxiety, depression, irritability, anger, pessimism, cynicism and detachment.
Kristina: Right. So one more sort of like, 'oh, just go away, just leave me alone and go away.'
Kristina: That's again, that's sort of another, to me these are all yellow flags.
Christine: Interesting. Yeah.
Kristina: Right. So you want to think like how many yellow flags do I have?
Kristina: Similarly, at work, it could be a drop in productivity or forgetfulness, difficulties with concentration and attention. So all of those can be signs that burnout may be going on and we want to pay attention to that because if in fact we're seeing a whole bunch of, oops I just, something went wrong. If we're seeing a whole bunch of those different signs, then accumulative number of those or seeing that over a number of days. So absolutely as you said, anyone can have a bad day, anyone can have a bad couple of days, but when you're beginning to feel this way more as more often than not, or as a regular course, you really want to begin saying, 'hm, let me do an assessment.'That's why I love the Provider Resilience app.
Christine: It's true.
Kristina: Because you can log this and you can sort of say, 'hm, how are things going?'Now one of the other things that we know, is that everybody has this recency bias. So anytime someone comes into my office and I say, how are you doing? Literally they start telling me about the last 48 hours.
Kristina: The 48 hours are good. They're like, 'oh, I'm great, blah blah, blah, blah,'and then they say, 'oh, you know, a week ago x tragedy occurred, but you know, last few days.'
Christine: I'm fine.
Kristina: Or they've had things go really well, but in the last two days they've gotten stuck or they're struggling and they come in and they're like, 'oh, I feel awful.'
Christine: I get it. Yeah, it's like when my clients come, I've been sleeping well for two months, but the last night I had a bad night and it's like, 'oh, come on.'You've been sleeping so badly before every night, so yes, Yeah.
Kristina: So we want to pay attention to that for ourselves and in our clients. Right? We want to keep in mind that people are immediately looking at really the short term past what's gone on. And so that's why I love tracking, so using particularly tech tools to track how are you doing or how is your client doing, having your client track, doesn't matter and you know what? Your client doesn't have to be a healthcare provider, anyone can get this app. So even though I'm saying 'Provider Resilience' and it was made for healthcare professionals, it works for everybody. That's what's fabulous.
Kristina: But particularly relevant to the healthcare professional.
Kristina: So we begin to track this. We're like, 'okay, I'm having more and more of these signs. What's going on? What do I need to pay attention to?'And then we need to step back and begin to take sort of an inventory of what am I seeing and how strongly is this feeling? You know? And so remember I mentioned pessimism and cynicism.
Kristina: Right? So I want to highlight those...
Christine: I have the [inaudible] my cynicism sometimes.
Kristina: So and so do I mean I am, I consider myself a realist, although my friends will often also say that I'm Pollyanna, not so I don't ignore the truth. I totally believe in bringing in a realistic view, but I want it to be balanced. So I think our goal is balanced. We don't want to be up all the time. We don't want to be down all the time, right? We want that seesaw to be relatively balanced. So the prime key for me is when you look and you say, am I in balance? Like in general, if I think of the last week or the last month and having data helps, then am I in balance? Or are there more days where I'm catching myself being this other way? So I'll give you an example from one of my executive coaching clients, senior executive. And the reason she came to me as she, she said, 'hey, I think I'm having some real anxiety, maybe going into depression and so maybe I need therapy.' And I said, you know, can we talk coaching first before therapy because like, let's see where you're at, let's assess this. So instead we did coaching and what it was was burnout, and here was her sign, her number, two major signs, one was she noticed that at work, little things were irritating her.
Christine: Yes, I have so many clients with that.
Kristina: She was finding herself being a little shorter or a little more snappy to her staff, and she was really beginning to think, 'okay, how quickly can I retire?'Now this was a young woman. She was not at traditional retirement age, you know, sort of early, middle age. And so literally as she loved what she did, she didn't want to stop it. But she understood that she was feeling irritable.
Christine: Something was happening. Yeah.
Kristina: Yes. And I think one of the things that we do is when we begin to question this, we might go into this other area of, am, do I have an anxiety disorder? Is this depression, anxiety and depression go hand in hand, and we may be feeling more anxious, so she was also waking up and immediately overwhelmed by thoughts of her workday and what was she going to do, and how could she manage it and would get anxious. So she was experiencing anxiety. She was experiencing some of the early signs of maybe like an irritable agitated depression, but she didn't have a full blown anxiety disorder or she wasn't in a major depression. And that's part of that differentiation I think is important because early intervention can make such a difference and so I don't want us to pathologize things and that's what we do. We tend to say, oh look, right, because we're often so critical, so I was fine, fine, fine, fine, fine. And now everything's, everything's blown up and it's awful. And that's where that pessimism and the cynicism can come in, and we are sort of overly negatively catastrophizing how we're, how we're doing.
Kristina: So the other sign for her was that she would come home and she was too tired to do the things that she said she knew she should. So she wasn't exercising, she had a hard time at making a healthy meal and she'd sit on the couch and eat cookies and basically give herself a hard time mentally about sitting on the couch eating cookies and not exercising. And so literally she was like, I know what to do. Like, you know, I'm not an idiot. I know exactly what to do, but I can't get myself to do it.
Kristina: And so what I said to her, as you know, let's think about this differently. What if we think about this as burnout and what if we say it's at a stage of burnout that absolutely, in a very short period of time, there are some things that you can do, hashtag radical self-care, in order to stop the progression and turn things back so that you're back to loving the work that you love, feeling, that you have energy doing what you need to do to take care of yourself.
Kristina: So one of our very first interventions was starting the day off with laughter. Laughter is the best, biggest hit of dopamine that we can get.
Christine: I love it.
Kristina: Dopamine makes us feel good, right. So she loves, this sounds so silly. She loves funny YouTube cat videos.
Christine: Oh gosh, who doesn't.
Kristina: Right? Exactly.
Christine: Totally up there.
Kristina: Dancing parrot. I liked the dancing parrot, right? They crack me up.
Kristina: So now traditionally we would say, don't look at your phone right away. Don't go on media. Okay, that's all well, generally speaking, that's true. As in don't dive into it.
Christine: Don't check your email. Don't go on the internet. Yeah.
Kristina: Exactly. But for her, the minute she woke up, she was flooded with these anxious thoughts about what she had to do and how she didn't want to do it. So we needed to get that to stop right away.
Christine: Not spiral out of control. Yeah.
Kristina: Exactly. Five minutes of silly YouTube videos, she would laugh...
Christine: I love it.
Kristina: and then get out of bed with the energy and the positive mood to face the day.
Christine: I love that.
Kristina: Shower, eat, etc. and later go look at the email. So that's just one example. That's radical self-care.
Christine: That's amazing.
Kristina: Right? And that's what I mean. Simple intervention, simple short, no cost or low cost interventions.
Kristina: Some other interventions that we used for her, really worked with her on time blocking in her day. So as a senior executive with an open door policy, because she wanted to be accessible to her clientele, she didn't feel like she ever had time that was focused to do what she needed to do and the burnout was inhibiting her focus and concentration. So we talked about, if you think about this as coming from a place of you want to have the most to give those that you work with, you must have a break. And there is so much research in the...
Kristina: peak performance and mindset, literature on the fact that we can only work for a certain amount of time...
Christine: Of course.
Kristina: and then we need a break.
Christine: It's much less than we actually think it is. Like an eight-hour workday it's just ridiculous. You never going to get eight hours of work done, it's just ridiculous. Power naps baby. Yeah.
Kristina: Yes. So we actually need, the research says, and it depends on what it is that you're doing, but somewhere between 50 and 75 minutes, we must take a break. Meaning you can't work longer with focus concentration than either an hour or an hour and a half, sort of depending on what you're doing or what your profession is. And so at about 50 minutes you need to take a brief break. What do we do? We pull up our Provider Resilience app and we use some of those things to rejuvenate us during that.
Kristina: So again, right? We're talking five minutes or less, and that context switching in that moment, basically reboots your brain so you can go back in with increased focus and concentration. So that's one of the ways we use some time blocking.
Christine: I love it.
Kristina: We also had her set aside some dedicated time where she could in fact close her door for half an hour and attend to those things that were really high priorities...
Kristina: but that would, right? Again protecting her and saying no, so she could say yes to her to have more, to give.
Christine: Love it. So this is obviously super important when we have a client or when you know for ourselves, you know, if there's someone listening and it's like, okay, I see I literally coach five clients a day for one and a half hours. It's like, come on, you know, how's your brain supposed to do that So I think for ourselves, this is a super important one. Now my next question would be, I know that if you know, you have a case where this person wasn't as mindful or wasn't as open to, you know, get help straight away. I mean, this lady, she was aware, she knew that something was going on and most of the time our clients usually feel that something's not right. What do we do when we have someone? Because if you have a full blown burnout, it's seriously physical incapacitating and it can leave permanent damage. So, what would you suggest? What are some of the signs where you would say, okay, this is actually not just a yellow flag, there's this like orange verging on red. When is it time for a general health care provider or health coach to say, this is not my boathouse anymore. I need to refer this out in order to give my client the best care possible.
Kristina: The things that I see most commonly at that more advanced stage of burnout are an unremitting fatigue, a sense of hopelessness and this negativity or pessimism about the ability to change.
Christine: Interesting. That is a thought I cannot change anyway.
Kristina: Right? There's nothing. It literally comes down to I'm helpless and hopeless. There's nothing I can do. I have to do ABCDE. There's no getting around it, nothing can change. And our thinking, the more burnt out we are. We just talked about a lack of mental flexibility.
Kristina: So the more burned out we are, we're not regenerating and we're not recuperating and so we have narrowed options that we're seeing as what, how we can manage something. So I mean I just think of parents who will say, 'oh, we'll have to take care of my kids and I have to work and I have to take care of the house and blah blah blah blah blah.'And you say, 'well, what if you wanted or what have you left the dishes in the sink overnight.' 'Oh, I can't possibly do that.'
Christine: Okay. So complete inflexibility and, and like not seeing the forest for the trees.
Kristina: Right. And this degree of, it's not even, it's even beyond flexibility. It's often this, huge resistance, and that won't help.
Kristina: Even if I did that, that won't help.
Christine: See, I wouldn't have known that. So this is super interesting to me, okay.
Kristina: Yeah, so again, we're often using the relationship we have with the person to say, how about, how about you? I'll say like, let's test the hypothesis. Let's do an experiment, right? People love that. People like, all right, right, fine, because we're not gonna. I'm not gonna say, I mean I think I'm right, but hey, what do I know? I'm not you. You know this. So are you willing to engage in a little experiment to see what happens. Now one of the core techniques that we're using to manage burnout aren't really because burnout is about stress and stress management, right? Whatever the stressors are, it's all of that. Stress doesn't have to be bad, but that's a whole other conversation. The power of stress. But when we're talking about in this way, one of the impacts, again, of stress, is that decrease in cognitive flexibility. And stress means that our limbic system and our Amygdala is highly activated. So basically we're on red alert all the time.
Kristina: That's why we get the irritability. We have a greater startle response.
Christine: Yes. Just on edge.
Kristina: At all. It's almost done. Right, I'm on edge. I can't catch my breath even though you're not out of breath.
Kristina: That feeling like the world is coming down on me.
Christine: Your lungs are just too small suddenly. Yeah.
Kristina: Yeah. So breathing. Now I literally, people look at me and they just sort of roll their eyes and they're like, seriously? Seriously like, do you like have anything better than that? I'm like…
Christine: I know. They want something new.
Kristina: Let me tell you. Yeah. And I'm going to say my techniques fall under another catchphrase. 'Simple, not easy.'They're very simple, but it's not easy because you have to make a commitment and you have to persevere in applying the technique. So it's simple but not easy.
Christine: Love it, yeah.
Kristina: And so really validating that like, this isn't going to be easy, but if you don't want to feel as crappy as you feel, I can change that.
Kristina: And we start that with breathing. So I'm going to throw in here another little app for you because this is one of my favorites. There's about a bazillion different good breathing apps and I will say to people, 'hey, find one search, find something that you love that works for you,'but the same group that developed Provider Resilience, did this app that I'm going to tell you about, and it's called Breathe2Relax. So it's the word Breathe with the e, 2 the number 2, Relax, also free, totally available.
Kristina: And the reason I love this is it has an audio component, so there's a voice that tells you what to do. You can set the background, so you have a pretty background and you can adjust the length of the inhale and exhale so you can customize it. But the part I love the best is it has a little cylinder that fills up as you inhale and then the cylinder.
Christine: So you visualize it.
Kristina: Exactly, exactly. If someone has an apple watch as an example, there's a that there's a little circle and it gets bigger when you breathe in.
Christine: I love it, yeah.
Kristina: Fabulous. So again, we're talking like you can do this two minutes, two minutes or less when you go for a potty break. So, it also gives you a rate your stress, so you can rate your stress from low to high so you can track it as well is, it's always about tracking. But if I go to this, come on. Alright, I'll just start this and I'll show you a little teeny bit of it just so you can see the cylinder. And again, for those of you who are listening, check out the video so that you can see this because it's pretty awesome. All right, so oops.
Christine: Oh yeah, I can see it. Alright and so now and again, yeah, I love that. So you have this cylinder filling up and basically emptying out again, I love it.
Kristina: Yes. And I picked flower background because it's nice and it's a soothing voice, whatever, but you can set it to whatever you want. So what we know is that all of our sensory memories, good and bad, are stored in the limbic system. That's what the amygdala does. And that's our warning system as well. So when we use additional sensory components, we can help calm the amygdala down even more. So this app in particular, we've got the audio sensory who have the visual sensory, right? Both of those are there as it's guiding us to do the breathing, which is the important piece that we're really trying to do. So it's the breath that makes such a difference. The amygdala in that with the other sensory components.
Christine: Exactly. And that's what I love to tell people is that you are in control. Like your brain, yes, it is incredibly complex, but it's also incredibly basic, and you can control it. It's the best thing in the world, especially if I have people who are like, 'everything's out of control. It's spinning out of control. I'm just a slave to my thoughts.'And it's like, no, you're not. You can use your physiology to literally control your thoughts.
Christine: Which I think is super powerful and empowering really people in so many different ways. I do these things with my clients before going to bed, but this is definitely something super easy. But yes, not or simple, not easy. Which I think is a great tool to let people know, and I love also that you told us what to look out for. So we're running out of time, but I think we know after this episode, we know what to look out for, what you watch out for, for ourselves. Like I definitely have a couple of yellow flags at the moment and super stressful at the moment. Right now. My business is going great. So lots of stuff going on. So I need to walk the talk as you said, but also for my clients, like, I looking back, I definitely had at least five to 10 clients where I would say they were definitely showing some signs. Inadvertently I do a lot of techniques that help burnout as well. But I loved that you said that one of the main things that you have to kind of think about referring out is that when people become stuck, you know.
Christine: And really give up on themselves and just think this is never going to change. And if you don't have the right way of talking to them, I believe that you hit a wall and you're not serving them. So for everyone out there, if you do have a client like that, please, maybe they can even get in touch with you and ask you for advice. How would they do that?
Kristina: Oh absolutely. So you can always reach me through my website, which is a DrKristinaHallett.org. D r K r i s t i n a H a l l e t t dot Org. You can also email me and seriously my email is out there everywhere but it's Kristina M as in Mary, KristinaMHallett@Gmail. I'm so happy to talk to people. You can reach me through LinkedIn or Facebook and this is exactly it. And you know, one of the things that I do is I often partner with other coaches. So for example, if you were working with someone on your sleep coaching and they got to that point...
Christine: I'm just like, oh, not quite there with my practice, which, you know, I do stuff paper to a certain limit but I'm not a clinical psychologist or psychiatrist or whatever, you know. So I know when I reached my limits I would just say, look Kristina, I want to refer you someone, let's just do this together. And if they fine with it actually may be exchanged notes, depends on the kind of course. Yeah.
Kristina: Exactly. And then I would work on that piece and then send them back to do the piece that they were doing, because I'm not trying to be an expert in everything either.
Kristina: So one of the people that I work with in fact is teaching people about money management and being in charge of their financial side of their business. But same thing if a person you see this with entrepreneurs all the time, if they get burnt out, they're stuck.
Kristina: Those blocks that need to be addressed so they can go back and do that. I don't want to teach somebody about the financial aspects of running their business. I'm good with mine, you know. So that kind of thing. So I absolutely love that, because to my mind, then everyone's getting to be in their wheelhouse, their area of expertise…
Kristina: but also making a difference.
Christine: Absolutely. And I think it's a sign of being an integrity and it's also a sign of being a high end coach if you have a referral network, if you have a team that you know can help you with, just showing that you have a great network and it's just professional. I just find people knowing when to say stop and having someone they trust that great to work with, that's just showing how professional you are. So anyone who's doing coaching but it has a lot of these types of people and it's like I don't feel quite equipped for that. I think Kristina would get better results. She obviously has the experience. She has the credentials. We just heard her speak, so everything's just been golden. Then do you get in touch with her. We have all the links on our website, 360healthbizpodcast.com. You'll just have to click on the links and you can get in touch with her and I just think this is amazing. Have a look at the video where she's demonstrating the app. We're going to link it as well in the post on the transcript and that's all we have time for today. Kristina, I cannot tell you how grateful I am for you being here and sharing all this system with us. I think it's a topic that's, you know, people roll their eyes as soon as they hear the word burnout because it's just been used so much, but it's very, very real and I think because so many people are fed up with it, they don't care to even look further into it. So I think this is a golden episode that every health practitioner is mandatory to listen to it.
Kristina: Well, thank you so much for having me on. As I said, this is my passion because I truly believe that we can feel better and when we feel better, we give better care and so that means that we're literally making a difference in changing the world, and we have to start with ourselves.
Christine: Yes, we do. I love this. I'm totally in love with you right now. Crushing hard.
Kristina: Yes, yes, yes, yes. Ditto, so there with you.
Christine: Alright, well everyone, thank you so much for tuning on, surf over to iTunes if you've enjoyed this episode and give us some love there, and all the links on our show notes on our website and we're looking forward to talk soon, next time together with Kendra and stay tuned for more business tips and also continuous education tips, which we did today. So thank you so much for being with us and that's it for today. So bye.