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No matter how much marketing and sales experience you’ve had, marketing YOURSELF is so different, so much harder than selling a product that isn’t directly tied to you. Amanda Daley experienced this first hand. With 19 years of marketing experience for big corporate businesses, she struggled to sell herself as a health coach. In fact, the first nine months of her business she didn’t have any clients.
After some mindset work and doing the work to determine her ideal client, she went from $0 to $5,000 a month. And today she’s letting you in on what the 5 steps are to reaching that so you too can make $5,000 a month.
The 5 steps to making $5k are: mindset, finding the right business model, client niching, the perfect sales sequence, and saying yes/no to a client.
2. Finding the right business model
3. Have the right eyeballs on you
4. Ask for the dance
5. Soulful sales
To learn more about these steps, tune into the episode.
Amanda Jane Daley is a leading Business Mentor for Health Coaches worldwide. Renowned for her marketing expertise (with over 19 years of experience!) Amanda has earned recognition by the world’s top advertising awards, and has built her own 7-figure coaching business in under 5 years. Founder of the successful health coaching biz 'Fuel Urban Wellness', Amanda combines her business + coaching savvy to mentor other health coaches to start their businesses and learn to make $5K+ per month — and has been dubbed the 'leading expert' for Health Coaches who desire a heart-fuelled business and a freedom-based lifestyle.
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Amanda’s freebie: www.amandajdaley.com/360
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Kendra: Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of the 360 Health Biz Podcast. I am here all by myself, sadly Christine is not with me today. We are recording with a very special guest who is on the other side of the world, managing three time zones was not possible, so you just have me but we have an awesome episode as always for you. I'm actually super excited for this episode because I am interviewing someone who I followed many years ago when I was starting out my business as a health coach, so it's very much a full circle moment and we have like a total OG, the OG business mentor for health coaches.
Kendra: So we are hanging out today with Amanda Jane Daley or Amanda and she is a leading business mentor for health coaches worldwide renowned for her marketing expertise with over 19 years of experience. Amanda has earned recognition by the world's top advertising awards and has built her own seven figure coaching business in under five years. Founder of the successful health coaching biz Fuel Urban Wellness. Amanda combines her business plus coaching savvy to mentor other health coaches to start their businesses and learn to make 5k per month and she's been dubbed the leading expert for health coaches who desire a heart-fueled business and a freedom-based lifestyle. Welcome Amanda.
Amanda Daley: Thank you, thank you. So great to be here.
Kendra: Yeah, I'm super excited to talk to you today and we're going to be talking about five steps to 5k months and I really love that because I think everyone's talking about the 10k months, but when you're only making 1k a month, 10k seems crazy.
Amanda Daley: Totally.
Kendra: I would love to know, why don't you introduce yourself and just tell us like how you ended up here and why you focus on helping health coaches?
Amanda Daley: Yeah, sure. Absolutely. It is so great to be here and so special to hear that you've been following, for all those years, definitely. Yeah, it helps me reflect where I've come from, but when I mentioned the 19 years in online business and marketing, that was my whole life really. My first job was in the startup team of eBay in the UK as a young 21-year-old. And that was all exciting, but I really followed that path through the digital startups and working actually mostly in design and art direction in TV stations and then in Sydney for many years in advertising. And honestly online marketing and everything was like the poor cousin for many of those years, there weren't many of us who were really specializing in it so it's pretty cool to see where the world is today in marketing.
Amanda Daley: That was my background and I love it, marketing is everything to me and the problem is that my body wasn't keeping up with working in that corporate environment. And I literally used to spend every cent I make and run off whenever I could to go heal myself, because I thought I wasn't enough to keep up in the corporate environment. I was struggling really badly with adrenal fatigue, just all a host of issues really. And I was doing energy healing and yoga training and all the things to try and fix myself and to a degree had life-changing results as many of us I think did have a health crisis to get into health coaching, and then at same time it wasn't working.
Amanda Daley: So when I heard about health coaching it was just like, oh my gosh, this light bulb moment. And so of course I jumped and I trained to be a health coach and rather naively in hindsight thought, "Oh, I'll just throw in my whole advertising career and be a health coach because that's going to be easy, isn't it?"
Amanda Daley: I don't know what I thought, but I was that burnt out really at that time. And I guess when you meant to be on a different path, you really will be nudged and I did leave. That was early 2012 that I left my advertising career and started being a health coach. And the first nine months I had no clients, that was the reality.
Kendra: Yeah. It's amazing that you had all this marketing background and still couldn't figure it out. Right?
Amanda Daley: Could not figure it out. And I guess there's many reasons for that. One, I will say straight off I think is because selling ourselves is so much different.
Amanda Daley: You mentioned, my background I was winning international awards for people like Coca Cola, not clients we're proud of now, but big international clients.
Amanda Daley: No worries doing that, so why could I not get even a client? I think the first reason is absolutely that selling ourselves is really, really hard when we're not used to that. And then two, of course I was just copying everything that the schools taught me, which was not wrong, I think I just didn't get it or wasn't able to hear it in that way. So it took me quite a while to piece it together doing any training, and there wasn't specialized health coaching training back then either so piecing together things and what did and didn't work.
Amanda Daley: Yeah, but eventually I got it up and running 5k a month was a real for me turning point when I got to that, you could do that consistency, did that for a number of years. Many people were starting to sign up with me secretly to get business coaching because they could see what I was doing in the guise of needing health help. And I really was very anti it for a long time, moving into business coaching, all I wanted to do was help women, with their energy, with their... It sounds so cliche, but step into their power. What else is possible, expansion? And I did think marketing and business was the devil having come from that, I was so resistant for a number of years, but obviously one thing led to another and 2014 I yeah shifted to being... well during that year transitioned to mentoring.
Kendra: Yeah. Yeah. And now you just love the business and the tech. Right?
Amanda Daley: Well I love all of it. Now that was not of it for me, realizing, not shoving out that part of me. I do know marketing very well. I love it, live and breathe it, but at the same time I love that inner journey and I love all the healing work I've done and it was only when I realized that business was really going to be a conduit for me to do that work with women and I do find business is, as I'm sure you would agree, the biggest personal development journey on earth.
Kendra: Oh my gosh, yes. It is, it is.
Amanda Daley: So yeah, when I truly understood that I was still going to be able to do that work with women and realized what I was sitting on too. I wanted to be a health coach and I wanted to make a difference and I realized all these other people didn't know what I did and what I had pieced together. Yeah, so it all came together and I haven't really looked back, I'm still running the same program I started in 2014
Kendra: Really? Oh my gosh, I'm jealous because I lose interest after a year, I drive myself crazy.
Amanda Daley: Yeah.
Kendra: That's amazing. And I love what you said about thinking marketing and business was the devil probably because where you came from and I feel that a lot of health coaches have that same perception because maybe their experience with marketing and sales is like the shitty vacuum salesman who's tried to sell you a broken vacuum or this like in-your-face advertising where the commercials are on high volume and they're shouting things at you. But of course that's not really what we're doing with health coaches but I think there's such a slimy perception around it, that a lot of coaches don't even want to look into it. Right?
Amanda Daley: Totally. Totally. Yeah.
Kendra: And so I want to keep today super actionable because I know we're going to be going through those five steps. And I'd love to jump into that because I talk to so many health coaches and I know most of them are barely clearing like 2k, 3k a month. And like you said, that 5k was such a turning point for you and I know it would be such a turning point for our audience, like that's when you can start paying your bills, it's awesome.
Amanda Daley: Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Do you want me to dive in and...
Kendra: Let's just dive in.
Amanda Daley: Yeah. Cool. So look, step number one for me is actually what we started to talk about a little bit, is mindset and particularly, I often talk about money mindset. Now I'll give this a caveat, I personally feel that where I've grown my business to is 80% mindset, but without the 20% marketing... It's chicken and egg, you've really got to know the marketing steps to be able to do that. But I will start with mindset because we started talking about it.
Kendra: I would love to.
Amanda Daley: There's three particular mindsets that really stand out to me having mentored health coaches for the last seven, eight years. The first one is feeling like a fraud, not feeling expert enough. And I think we all felt that way and everyone can feel that way, but I literally see it from every single person who comes to me and they feel like they're alone. They feel like it's just them. So if we can see this as it's a mindset that's going on in you, but it's not you, it can really help us to understand, all right, this is a beginner thing and feeling like a fraud especially I think for health coaches, it's a new industry, it's not well-known. It's not like a personal trainer where everyone knows what it is. For me, part of this is cumulative when we're looking around at what is out there. I'm not a doctor, Oh, I didn't learn to do lab testing, Oh, I can't prescribe.
Amanda Daley: And I'm a big advocate of really understanding health coaching. Keeping in our lane, and that's a lot of the work I do with clients is my beliefs on health coaching are very much about prevention, very much about don't go to a doctor unless you can look them in the eye and say that you are doing movement, you are eating your veggies. And it's amazing how we beat ourselves up and just can't get in the game because of the fraud complex.
Amanda Daley: So that's probably the top one but equally up there for me is the scarcity. There's already too many health coaches out there, there's no room for me. Why would people work with me? All of that not enough-ness. And then I'd say the third one is low value, which is as healers we feel we shouldn't be charging a lot of money for our services. I mean this person's sick, how could I be charging? And ultimately that comes back to our own self-value, right? And how we value health coaching as well. So those mindset pieces to me got to be in place before we even...
Kendra: Oh yes, I totally agree. And it's funny because I saw so much mindset stuff when I was health coaching and sometimes I felt overwhelmed by it. And then when I went into business coaching I'm like, "Oh, it's going to be so different and we're just going to be talking about strategy and marketing and ads and it's going to be so easy." And then ultimately that's exactly what I was faced with. It's the fraud, which is the impostor syndrome and I think, how I see that manifest is coaches thinking they need to keep taking more certifications in more courses, right? They're just like, "Oh I need to take this training." And health-related trainings, they're not doing any business training. They're just like, "I need to take this certification in health and I need to get my gluten practitioner certification and then I need to learn about this and that." And it's like, well that one certification that you have is really all you need.
Amanda Daley: Totally. Totally. Yeah. The chasing of it and it's like trying to fill a hole that just won't go away if we don't look at these pieces.
Amanda Daley: Yeah. And I personally, the program that I run is a group program, it's a mastermind program and I won't actually work with beginners one-on-one for the reason that I really believe you've got to be around other people and get, this isn't just you this is how we all feel and, you see Sarah yesterday felt like that and now she's putting herself out there and none of us... I work very hard on my programs for my clients to see, I'm not any different than you, this is what I've done, this is the mindset that it's taken. I just want everyone to know we're all in this together and we can make ourselves almost in a negative way too, special. Like, "Oh, it doesn't work for me," Or, "I'm not enough," and all these things and I just find, yeah working in group has been the biggest factor for me personally but also for clients in moving through that.
Kendra: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, because it's true and I think with new health coaches, they don't even realize that these are mindset blocks, they just hear it as truth. So they're not even aware, they're just like "This is how I'm feeling and this is real and this is truth." When it's like, "No, we all feel those things," and even at this level that me and you are at now, we've been in business for over five, six, seven, you 19 years. We still feel it sometimes.
Amanda Daley: Totally.
Kendra: But we just don't let it hold... We know it's not true. We're like, "Oh hello fear. It's you again. Cool." Like, "I see you but I'm going to keep going."
Amanda Daley: Totally, and who you surround yourself with is so key. I mean coaches, mentors, finding someone who holds a new belief but also the people, your peers and people who are masterminds and things like that. So just yesterday, a lady said she got off one of my free trainings buzzing, and got on the phone to a girlfriend and the girlfriend said, "Ah, health coaches don't make money. Don't go into that trap," like this kind of thing and she was down. And I was like, "Well, if you want me to share, this is my reality all day, every day." We find what we look for, don't we? And who we surround ourselves with is a choice and it's so important.
Kendra: Yeah. And it's so true with friends and family, they don't really understand what a health coach does and really they just want you to be safe. And in their opinion, trying to start your own business and be a health coach, that is not a safe path and not one that they understand. So people saying that to you is really just them trying to protect you, but it's because they don't understand. Right?
Amanda Daley: Of course, so that brings us back right to that fraud. It's a new industry and no one understands health coaching. And that's in my opinion, our job to get that out there and to be speaking up and educating people and that comes with being leaders in a new industry.
Kendra: Yes. And it's true. And I love what you said earlier about feeling like, it's a saturated industry and there's too many. It's actually not, because it hasn't been around for that long. We're all like early adopters of this, so there's lots of space.
Amanda Daley: There's so much space, yeah. Totally.
Kendra: Yeah. Okay. So that's your one step is the mindset. And I love that you start with this because I like to start with this as well because it's just like if you don't have the mindset, you're just going to self-sabotage.
Amanda Daley: Yeah. And really that's what you got to keep doing. Right? So that's why I put it there.
Amanda Daley: So the second to me is having the right business model or by right, finding the right one for you. So many people come in thinking like, I'm just going to start selling single sessions or the six-month package from my school or whatever, and they haven't really mapped out, what do you need? And when we want to look at a 5k a month model, for example, the plan that I share with everyone is three to four days a week, three to four clients, or two to three days a week, two to three clients. Now that's just an example, but what I find from most health coaches is they don't want to be millionaires. They don't want to hustle 24/7 and if you do, great but many of them, trainings or business models focused on, like you said before, 10k months, six figure years, whatever at the beginning are really quite intense and that might not be what you want.
Amanda Daley: So I find people either overshooting or undershooting by trying to sell all these single sessions all the time. So actually getting out your calculator and working out first, what's my blueprint? How many clients am I going to need? How to make $5,000 for example, maybe I need five one-on-one clients a month and then we can work backwards in how you do that. But I find that if we don't work that out, especially a lot of people are working full-time jobs and trying to do this on the side or have kids at home, it again comes back to mindset.
Amanda Daley: It's a little bit like, thinking this won't work. Oh I'm too busy, I don't have time. Just getting in the facts, what is it I'm trying to build? How many clients? What's my financial goal? Where will that fit in my calendar? The structural plan if you like, first.
Kendra: Yeah, I love that. And then I think it can be a big wake up call for people, they're like, "Okay, I want to make 5k a month and I'm selling single sessions for $80 an hour." Do the math and you're like, "Oh I have to do 60 sessions or whatever it is a month and I can't find all those clients, and I can't fit that in my schedule."
Amanda Daley: I should know this number because it's in a webinar that I've done probably 20 times. I'm pretty sure the number is 143 you would need, if you wanted $5,000 from one-on-one sessions a month.
Kendra: Wow. It's impossible, you're going to burn out or you're going to just give up.
Amanda Daley: No wonder our brain in the background, right, is saying, "I can't do this. I can't do this." But you think about it again, when comparing to people like naturopaths and chiropractors, they have that many clients. They see 14 clients a day, times five days a week, times four weeks a month, they do. And then they have to try and get them to come back and it just doesn't make sense. So for me, working in what I call purposeful packages and designing a package that then fits that model is just the important foundation to get first.
Kendra: Yeah, I think that's important. And again, it's not their fault because our audience, they probably only have experience with a naturopath, in terms of someone they've seen. But health coaches aren't naturopaths, and in terms at least in Canada, I don't know what it's like in Australia, but a lot of people's extended health will cover the naturopaths service, so they have that going for them. It's maybe a bit easier for them to attract because there's a lot of people who just aren't going to see a health coach. They're just going to go with what's covered and what's on the list of professions. Right?
Amanda Daley: Yeah.
Kendra: But I also think those types of practitioners burnout.
Amanda Daley: Oh I've got a friend who, top-top naturopath and now many years on she's starting to mentor naturopaths, which is fun. But she tells me, "Amanda, everyone wants to be a health coach." Every naturopath wants to be able to work in packages, this is what they see with the health coach industry coming through. So there's always both sides. And so getting that package right is part of the business model, it's like to me one-on-one. And just on that note, a lot of the schools will teach a six-month program and people come out and most beginners would be terrified to go sell a six-month program when they've never done it before.
Amanda Daley: So we've got to find the sweet spot, right, between single sessions are not going to get results and then you're going to feel like a fraud because you're trying to sell something that you know is not going to get results in one session. I don't want to charge, versus six months and I work with clients to find their own package, however, I do find around the 12-week mark, around $1,000 package, can be quite an average of what people come out with and that matches to the 5k model.
Kendra: Right. And it's a good starting point. And I think $1,000 for a lot of people's going to feel like a lot of money, but at some point it's going to feel like you're going to want to bump that up. Right? And at some point what you charge $1,000 for now you might be charging 5k for in the future. Right?
Amanda Daley: And when you've got that business plan, therefore, okay, you've got the plan, you know you're going to do $1,000, you're not confident now, great. Go out and start at $500 or $400. And I always say I'm much more interested in you knowing the plan and knowing the model than how much money you're making because that will come. Yeah.
Kendra: Yeah. And I think I started at $500, I think initially that was my starting point. And I think you learn from that because your $500 package may not always attract the most committed clients and so I got frustrated. So I started raising my prices and at some point I hit a sweet spot where I was like, "I'm not getting as many people but the people I attract are super committed and they're ready and they actually do the work."
Amanda Daley: Love that. Love that. And then obviously the same model scales up. I've got ladies in my mastermind now, my more advanced, mastermind, making up to $20,000 a month from the same one-on-one and then not burning out and they're not even charging super high. Sometimes they might have to book a month or two in advance and then make that bridge but just again on the business model, I don't normally talk about this, but I just feel to say it right now, stick with the one business model that's probably one of my biggest tips. It works and stop looking for the next magical, maybe I should do an eCourse, maybe I should do this. As long as you like one-on-one coaching, stick with that and then allow your prices to go up and do the inner work.
Kendra: Yeah, I love that. And it's true, yeah. You can do really well with one-on-one, and I think it's a good starting point for all health coaches even if your goal is ultimately to sell a course or a group program. That one-on-one stuff is what gives you confidence, experience and it gives you the ability to get people results so that when you sell your course you're not just talking out your ass. Okay, so number two is business model and what's number three?
Amanda Daley: Number three, I changed what I call this one, today I'm going to call it eyeballs. I just like calling it eyeballs. Basically we'll just start with it's, who's my ideal client? Ideal client to me is something that is taught so wishy washy. It's one of those marketing terms that every school, every marketing course has, but ultimately in a nutshell, to me, target market is pain points and desired outcomes and at least for us to be able to talk too, and understand what someone in pain on, what do they want the outcome from. I honestly don't care a lot about how old they are, what job they have, how many kids they have, et cetera. However, I will say it needs to be one ideal client. And by identifying that we can now make our marketing message magnetic, literally if I'm talking to you right now, like I'm talking to you and you can feel it, whereas if I start talking to... Actually, my words have to stop like if I try to start thinking, "I'm talking to 50 people at once."
Amanda Daley: You actually can't do it energetically or physically. So identifying your ideal client and then every day the activity becomes, how can I be seen by that ideal client and ask them to work with me? So there is a two-step within that. Obviously your foundations as a beginner getting player on this is my ideal client, pain points benefits my one client that I'm speaking to and not being scared like you will attract everyone else and that's okay. But really that question for me, once we get into business every single day when we sit at the desk, how can I be seen by my ideal client and I say ask them for the dance. So, that's where our marketing has to start from, so many people, I can't find my clients. I'm sure you must get the same question.
Kendra: It's crazy.
Amanda Daley: How do I find clients, I just need clients.
Kendra: Who are you talking to? This is honestly I've seen this is the biggest blocking factor with new coaches and what I see as one of the main reasons why they're stuck and they don't know what content to create and they just don't know what they're doing. I would love your thoughts on why do so many health coaches resist it? Is that a scarcity, a fear thing? Like they just resist, resist, resist and they're just like, "No I don't want to turn people away. I want to help everyone. I want to be a health detective. I want to help people optimize wellness." And you're like, "No."
Amanda Daley: I think there's so many reasons why we have resistance, because some people basically just don't want to be coaching. And that's definitely, for me to date at the moment anyway, I'll only work in live programs because I do find that resistance, eCourses, et cetera don't tend to work when you have resistance and we all have it. So I'm not saying that won't change in the future, but at the moment that's why I stick with my high touch coaching. There's so many reasons, some of us actually don't want clients. I was working with a top level VIP client yesterday and every time I said, "Okay put out your marketing," it was the response back to me with some jumble about messaging and I had to say, "What's going on here? You could get clients to..." but she couldn't see herself doing it.
Amanda Daley: It was like bouncing out, "Oh, I haven't got my message. Oh, but my website..." And so we have resistance, let's just be honest about that. But resistance is not there to say, "I'm broken. I need to go fix myself before I can be a health coach." We all have it, we've got to move through it. Sometimes I think it comes back to the fraud, we are scared if we get clients that we're not going to get results, so it's much safer if we get stuck in a tangle of, "Oh I can't... my target market," like that is safe. It's a really safe place to get stuck. Secondly though, I do think I'm back to the scarcity, people have in their mind if they only talk to one person that they're not going to get clients. They think it's too tight and they feel bad, "What if I want to help Harry, and Trudy is my target market?" It's great, you have a magnetic message and Harry will come and you're allowed to work with them. It's just actually impossible to have, what I call a magnetic message, if you're not talking to one person because your marketing and everything should feel like, just like the two of us talking right now, having a coffee together. And the biggest thing I see is people coming into this marketing jumbo words that they've come up with for their target market. I don't even understand what you're... this isn't English.
Kendra: Yeah, I know I call it nutritionists language, it maybe makes sense to other health coaches and nutritionists, but it's like when was the last time you heard someone say, "I really just want to create a mindful routine so that I can be the best version of myself."
Amanda Daley: That's the third thing I was going to say, when you ask the question, why do people get stuck there? I always say as health coaches we're a little bit smarty pants. What I mean by that, is we've the training and we know that when you say weight loss, you really have an issue with your relationship, or you really are stressed, and as health coaches... Or maybe we've done mindfulness and we've done all the inner healing work and we want to jump there. And so what happens is we start making these packages and target market that sound like you said, "I'm here to empower women into their most enlightened something." It's like, "Huh?" You and I probably want that but I'm not going to pay for that.
Amanda Daley: This is why I say target market and messaging is more old school one-on-one marketing pain points, desired outcomes. I want the pill, look at all my oils or whatever, what have I got? Like the energy pill, the insomnia pill, this is what we buy. This is how we end... So I always say you need that business brand that is actually boring and then we can see you. We do see if you're putting out content or showing up and getting in front of these eyeballs with your marketing, I'm going to see that your heart-centered. I'm going to see that you're about empowerment. I'm going to see that you're holistic and not a scam. We do see you in your personal brand, when it comes to messaging, people will buy something that they're in pain for, full-stop. And that needs to be the match for this ideal client.
Kendra: Yeah, it's all about meeting them where they're at, right? Like they just started experiencing insomnia and sure, you know that they need to balance their blood sugar, eat breakfast and stop looking at screens at night. But right now all they know is I can't sleep and I just want you to help me sleep. Right? You really just have to lead with that and then your content and obviously your paid offerings are going to educate them on these other things in your presence. But yeah, you just can't make your niche the way that you get them there, it needs to be exactly what they're experiencing.
Amanda Daley: Absolutely. Yeah.
Kendra: Yeah. Okay. So number three is niche and ideal client, which is so important and I love talking about that. So what's number four?
Amanda Daley: Number four is what I call, ask for the dance. My accent is probably funny how I say that.
Kendra: I love your accent.
Amanda Daley: Even here in Australia, they can't understand it. So look, I find in the model that I teach is three boxes. So you've got be seen by your eyeballs, like I said. And the middle one is your discovery session or your sales call. And the third one is your delivery of your program. But how do we get from, I'm seen by new eyeballs, which to me is 80% of your work every day. But what I specifically said before if you listened, was how can I be seeing my ideal client and ask for the dance? And that's the bridge into getting on a call.
Amanda Daley: A coaching business is actually really, really simple, there's nothing more than those three boxes. And actually your job is just to get people on the phone... Is pretty much the job now. People go off and they make websites and flyers and all these things because they're hoping that will get people on the phone and they're doing all these long steps. So actually ask for the dance really needs to be heard, as in ask people to get on the phone, ask people if they want to have a conversation. And it's not 2012 like when I started out and you started out a similar time, where we could just do a blog post with, "Hey send me... If you'd like to get on a call," now we need to still put the call to actions in our social media, and in our pieces like "If you'd like to book a discovery call, and let me know."
Amanda Daley: But we are in the age of DMs and reaching out to people and having authentic relationships. That doesn't mean jumping into someone's direct message and spamming them with, "Hey come work with me." But if you see someone engaging in your posts, you see someone watching your videos, et cetera, start a conversation, get to know them and Instagram's wonderful for this. We do have to go that extra step of actually asking and when you say before, people have the resistance about eyeballs, I see more resistance on this. It's like people just can't hear it.
Amanda Daley: And this is the number one area I've seen when people go that extra relationship building and actually say, "Would you like to get on the phone for call with me?" And to me when we're looking back at the marketing model, 5k a month. Okay you want a client a week? How many discovery sessions? Maybe two discovery sessions a week. That's your job. It might not sound very sexy, but if you're working for me, your job when you get to your desk every day is to book me those two calls a week. And I do find people doing the marketing, and feel like they're being seen but they're not asking.
Kendra: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I see that a lot. And I see it with free opt-ins, I see it with all kinds of things. It's like they say it once and then they never say it again and people aren't even aware of that there's this option to take the next step. You've really got to have something there for your hot leads, so people who are like, they've seen your content, they like what you're doing, they like your personality, they want to buy, but they just don't know how and then they forget, they're gone.
Amanda Daley: Totally. And we are in business, the same plan I said yesterday I was talking to resistance, what was going on and of course it came up like, "Oh my family and friends might think I've been talk about my business too much." At some stage we've got to make peace with that, if you want to be in business, you're going to have to market. And I know that none of us necessarily got into health coaching to be marketers but to find the love for that I think, to find the creativity for that and the piece around it. God, the impact we could be having. And if we say we want to be helping others through our work, we can be doing that through our social and content we create all day, every day, if we truly do what everyone tells me, "I just want to help people." If you do, then go be of service with this content and getting visible and asking people, "Can I help you?" Because they're sitting at home, wanting to be helped.
Kendra: Yeah. And I love that you said creativity in marketing because I find marketing super creative, it's one of the only ways I feel like I'm creative because I don't have any other outlets for it. So I really enjoy it for that. And so I think you just got to find like, you know where your superpower is in terms of content creation and then go spread your message. Go help those people. Go give them value.
Amanda Daley: Absolutely. And we don't need big audiences. I know a lot of things out there talk about needing to build a big list I think you do if you're going to do an online program or something like that, but honestly we all have even just on our personal Facebook page or [inaudible 00:33:09] of things. We don't need big numbers to get two people on the phone a week, we just don't.
Kendra: No, we don't. And I love that and I talk about that a lot, especially these days because maybe 10 years ago, sure it was not that hard to build a massive email list and following because all these algorithms weren't in place and it wasn't as crowded and all this. But these days unless you have a big budget, it's really hard to do that. So it's really about having a quality lesson and just to give the audience some context. I've talked about this a bit before, but I think I had less than 2,500 people combined when I made my first six figures in business and that was across email, Instagram and Facebook. It wasn't that much. It's really not that much, I think anyone can do that.
Amanda Daley: Yes, yeah. And obviously the marketing pieces do need to start coming in of going back to meetings, back to the eyeballs. Even in my advanced mastermind still pretty much 80% is how do we get you seen by more? And one of my top tips there is how can you tap into someone else's existing audience of that [inaudible 00:34:08] can start from scratch and getting back to this, where are the clients, ask a genuine question, where are they? They're following Kendra. Okay, well how can we partner with Kendra? How can we get in front of Kendra's audience? I think we over complicate it, it is basically, can I be seen by my ideal client and then ask for the dance, so that step three and four.
Kendra: Yeah, and I love that you talk about collaboration because I think it maybe can come back to that scarcity mindset. The idea of there's too much competition, like what she does means that I don't get it as much, but it's like there's really room for everyone. There's so many people online and what makes you unique is really your personality and there's no one else who was a personality just like you. So we can collaborate, do this podcast together even though we have similar audiences and still benefit. Right?
Amanda Daley: Oh absolutely. You know, one of the things I've always been proud of in my stage one mastermind is I've never seen at least to my awareness, any sense of competition in there. But I definitely do see when people move on to the more advanced implementation stage that I have. By that level because obviously it takes a while to get your foundations and by year two of your business, I find it's the collaborations between them. Again, you don't need the whole world just a small group of women and I'm sure you have the same in yours, start sharing a podcast with each other and then get each other on as guests. You don't need to even know anyone else. And I see this work pretty well with Facebook live shows, for people starting up. I've got a beautiful woman who actually has a voice impediment and therefore was going to leave because she thought, "I can't do videos and I can't do content," and we set her up with a Facebook live show and she just interviews like all the other ladies in the mastermind. And she's in her element because she doesn't have to be the focus on her vocals for a full hour. And so the collaboration and there's just no need for a sense of competition and I think if anyone does feel that, that'd be a key thing. It's a sense of resistance too, I think, so.
Kendra: Yeah. Oh, I love that. That's such a cool story. Yeah. I mean, really, there is something for everyone and if people don't resonate with you, that's okay, they can go resonate with someone else. Like not everyone is meant for you. And that's okay. It's just like in real life, not everyone's going to like you, you can't be friends with everyone.
Amanda Daley: I remember a mentor saying to me once when I was getting a bit triggered by that, like so many new coaches and so many whatever, and she was like, "You don't want all those people. Amanda," and it really gave me a sense of, "Oh yeah, like we don't want every person in the world." It's like we just want our dream clients, just stay in your own lane. Like I said, get magnetic in your marketing, get really clear. This is where I want to work, get culture and boundaries in that and you don't need everyone. And my little joke too, paraphrasing what she said there, is you probably don't want to work with everyone anyway.
Kendra: Yeah, it's very true.
Amanda Daley: Let other people be the right coach for that person.
Kendra: That's awesome. And so that's number four. And that is, I guess the dance, to get people on the phone, right?
Amanda Daley: Basically. Yeah.
Kendra: All right.
Amanda Daley: So that leads me to step number five, soulful sales and systems. So I think most people are terrified of that sales call and it's definitely something I think, I don't want to quote wrong, but a number of the health coaching schools I believe still do teach something called a health history or something similar as a way of getting on getting someone to buy from you and a health history will not sell. There's a reason that there's a resistance to them. It's valuable information, I think it can be great in session one of your program or something like that, but a sales call, it's soulful when you don't coach, and this is backwards for people.
Amanda Daley: The minute that you coach, you're actually robbing someone of the opportunity, which is supposed to be a discovery of, am I ready to transform, and are you the coach for me? To me, that's the only energy we want in a discovery call. Is this client ready to transform and is this relationship right?
Amanda Daley: It's simple to say, I get it because we bring all our baggage and we need to pay our rent, we need to pay our this. So we bring our money stories to the call and then we bring our, am I good enough in. Often what can happen is we start coaching to prove ourselves, especially as new health coaches, or we start blushing off a whole lot of information to be expert. And we're making that about, "Oh, it's all about me. Am I good enough?" As opposed to a sales call should be 100% about the potential client, almost to the point where you don't even have a script, almost, I do have scripts. And is it true from the energetic process that I take someone through that I teach, which is allowing someone to go high into their dreams.
Amanda Daley: Most people live in what I call the gray zone, and they're too scared and they're trapped. Take someone on that journey, what do you really want? Have you even thought about it? And then take them low and be honest, what's this pain actually doing? Most people, again, shove it down, pretend it's not there and as we open up that we can see what's really going on for the person and if they want to transform. That in itself to me is one of the most valuable things you could gift someone. So you're still giving, you're still giving value. And then the simple question after that is, is now the right time? Are you willing to change? You want to know all of that before there's any conversation of your program or anything like that.
Amanda Daley: And this is hard for me to succinctly put in one point but ultimately what I'm saying is have a way of doing sales that will actually lead to someone making a commitment in themselves, not regurgitating what happened to their parents' health or their current stomach problems. We'll get there but really one of the key pain points... Back to sales messaging, right? Key pain points, key desired outcome. And do they want to go on that transformation? Is it with you?
Kendra: Yeah, I love that you really want to find the right people because if they're not committed and you sell them into your program, then they're not going to get results. You're going to be banging your head against the wall and it literally kills your soul when you have this client who you want to help and they can't help themselves. Right?
Amanda Daley: Yeah. And we've got to be really clear on that as well I think, that as health coaches, I think we all are in so much integrity of what we give. Most people will over-give but one of the biggest healing pieces of my journey was really understanding, that I can never make my client do that work. I cannot be responsible for that. Like in the early days of business coaching, myself and my assistant used to not sleep after a call. We're trying to work out Sally's issue, and why is Sally's business... And I really have come to a place of peace and I hope I can pass that to everyone sooner rather than later. As coaches, we're not meant to be God, we're not meant to be someone's savior, we're not meant to do the work for them and we want clients who want to change. It's part of that first call, if that's not there, why would you put yourself through that? It's going to loop you back to step one of feeling like a fraud and terrified of getting on coaching calls. Because of course, we've got to give everything and of course, we've got to do our best as a coach. But more often than not, we're actually sabotaging by trying to solve everything, especially on that first call instead of leaning back and seeing, "Hey, do you want to make a change?"
Kendra: Yeah, I love it. And I think I've started calling them... I'd tell people don't even call them sales calls, they're just qualifying calls or enrollment calls. You're just qualifying this person to see if they're going to be the right fit for your program and if you can actually help them. But I love what you said about, we're not their saviors. We can't save our clients, they have to save themselves, we're just here to guide them. And I think it's important to make that really clear that when we work together, I'm going to be giving you guidance, but you're only going to get the result if you actually do the work, right?
Amanda Daley: Totally. And not being afraid, once you are coaching. If someone's not getting the results, don't blame yourself, speak to it. Call it out, I mean in a loving way that, "Hey Sarah, how are you going so far? You know I've noticed that some of the pieces of homework that I've given you, you haven't necessarily taken action on. Do you want to go back and review why?" That is very different than sitting at home going, "Oh my God, Sarah's not losing weight." Well, why? The only reason can be that she's not taking action or don't take responsibility, and then lean in and say, "What else could we do here together?" You're going to be so much more connected in hearing what's needed, than if you're in your head going, "Oh my God, I'm not good enough, she's going to leave. She's going to..."
Amanda Daley: But again, I know it's easier said than done, start with a really soulful sales process and systems. The three systems that I always believe need to be part of that are, how to book calls, how to take payment, how to do a contract. And I think just by having those smart pieces set up in the background, then we can relax when, "Oh my God, the shock, someone actually wants to buy from me," the first client, and then we're like, "Oh, how do I do this?" If you can just have those there, you can feel supported, you can trust the process and to me too, there's an energetic flow in that. When your pipeline is set up, you can just, "Okay, let's get on the phone and I know what to do, if they're the right person for me."
Kendra: I love that. That's awesome. Okay, so let's just quickly review those steps. I'm like already like forgotten them. So let's go through them just so the audience remembers and then we'll let them know how they can get in touch with you.
Amanda Daley: Absolutely. So first step is mindset, specifically the three, the fraud, the scarcity, the low value for health coaches, and who you surround yourself with. So mindset, mindset, mindset. Step two is business model, getting really clear, how much do you want to make? How many clients is that going to take? How many hours a week? Where's that going to fit in your schedule? Does that fit for you and your values and your lifestyle? Step number three is all about those eyeballs. So identifying the ideal client and then every day, how can I be seen by more eyeballs, into step four and ask for the dance. So step four is really about asking, leaning in, having the conversations, not waiting for someone to engage with you, you're going to them. And then step five was the soulful sales and systems.
Kendra: Awesome, I love it. I think that's great. And I hope this helps everyone make 5k a month. And I just see in her notes that you have a freebie for our audience. Hey?
Amanda Daley: Yeah, we've actually set up a page for you. So @amandajdaley.com that's the letter J in the middle of my name there, AmandaJdaley.com/360, we have set up some of my top health coach goodies for your audience.
Kendra: Awesome. Thank you so much. And I guess so your website is just AmandaJdaley.com and then your social media was Amanda Jane Daley. So we'll put that all down in the show notes for everyone if you want to connect with Amanda and have her help you because, guess what? I think everyone needs a coach and mentor.
Amanda Daley: Absolutely. I love meeting any health coach. I'm so passionate about where this industry is meant to go, and any questions anyone's got or anything at all. I also have a Facebook group, Healthy Wealthy Society, which is where I mostly hang out. So I might mention that, because that's if anyone just wants to ask everyday questions about health coaching, or I know a lot of people probably aren't even in health coaching yet. We get a lot of people in there just wanting to check out the industry. So yeah, it's my favorite place to hang out.
Kendra: That's awesome, I actually think I'm in that group. I just really have not engaged in there in a while, but I think I'm in there.
Amanda Daley: I'll keep an eye out for you.
Kendra: Well thank you so much, that was super valuable. That's really, really good info for the audience. So definitely go follow Amanda, everyone. And thanks guys for listening. And we will be back in one week with our quick episode, our Biz Bomb series where we give you a super juicy tip for your business and then your brain explodes because it's so good. So we'll see you in a week and thanks for joining guys.