Let's start at the beginning. What is a signature program? A signature program is what your business is known for. It is a program that is branded to your specific niche that you sell to your ideal client. And remember, without something to sell, you don't have a business at all. You may have a brand, you may have an online presence, but unless you are selling something, you actually don't have a business.
I see a ton of coaches making the huge mistake of selling one off sessions or single sessions. So basically they are exchanging an hourly rate for something like a 60 minute session with no commitment from the client to go any further than that 60 minute session. This is not a successful business model for health coaches. And that is because typically as a health coach, you are actually not licensed, which means that people's extended health benefits will not cover your services. One off sessions actually require very minimal commitment from your client, which means that you have way less of an opportunity to actually get them results and to actually prove the method that is going to get them that result. And without the ability to get your clients results and ultimately get testimonials, you don't have a proven method, which means that no one's really going to seek you out for anything.
If we look at things from a money perspective, getting enough clients in the door to actually pay your bills and have a little bit extra enjoy your life is virtually impossible. Let's say you want to hit $5,000 a month in your business and let's just say you charge $100 an hour for a one hour session. That means you need to sell 51 hour sessions every single month in order to hit that $5,000 a month goal. And remember, when you sell one off sessions, there's very little commitment on the part of the client involved. So there's a good chance that many of those people who you are seeing in that month, you may not see them again at all, or maybe not again for several months. And that means you need to bring a lot of new clients into the door and have to work really hard on marketing to attract those clients to you.
If this hasn't convinced you yet, here are 3 reasons why you NEED a signature program.
1) it gives your business the ability to sell something that is way more valuable than just simply a one off session. It gives your brand an identity and something that you are known for.
2) it requires your clients to pay a much higher price point, which means ultimately they are going to be more committed to working with you, which means you have more opportunity to actually get them a result and actually get those testimonials that will help you bring more clients in the door.
3) you actually have to get way less clients to hit that 5K a month, which means that you are less likely to be overwhelmed, you're less likely to burn out, and you don't have to juggle a million clients at once. And if this sounds good to you, give me a hell yes in the comments below.
Okay, so let's discuss how you actually create a signature program. So first things first you need to ask yourself the question, what is the ONE thing that I solve for my ideal client? Not five things and not 10 things, not 15 things. So you want to think of the one result that you could get for your ideal client that they would consider a huge win and they would rave about to all their friends.
When it comes to naming your signature program, you want to make the name of the program very specific so that the name speaks for itself. So when you say the name of your program, people know exactly what type of result they're actually going to get from that program.
The next thing you want to do is you want to determine how long your signature program is going to be. Now there is no secret sauce for the ideal length of a signature program, but don't make it too long or too overwhelming because that could actually turn off your ideal client from purchasing. I find three to six months tends to be best for a signature program. If you're doing just standard traditional health coaching, three months works pretty well, but if you are a type of coach who's running labs, then I would probably go on the longer end of that maybe more four to six months to allow for the time it takes to send out labs and receive results. And of course some of the errors that come along with working with labs.
And the final thing you want to do is determine what your signature program is actually going to include. How many sessions will you offer? What types of tools and resources will you give to your clients? What type of support are they going to receive from you? And don't make the mistake of adding too many sessions into your program to try to increase the value. People are actually pretty busy these days and they worry less about the time they get in a program. What they care about most is the results.
All right, so now go create your bad ass signature coaching program!
Are you totally jealous of all the Instagram accounts out there that have the swipe up feature? I hear you. I'm just like you. When I made this video, I didn't have 10,000 followers yet, so I discovered a sneaky little work around that will allow you to access the swipe up feature without having 10K followers.
The swipe up feature converts super, super well on Instagram, but what a shame it is when you have less than 10K and you can't access this feature. Now, when you don't have 10K, it's not quite as seamless as it would be if you had 10K and you wanted to use the swipe up feature. It does take a little bit more effort, but I promise you it's fully worth it because you can send people from Instagram to your website, to your sales page or your landing page.
Now, the first thing you're going to want to do is you're going to want to create a one minute vertical video and you're going to do that making your smartphone. Just take your phone record a one minute video, and in that video you're going to tell people why they should be clicking on your link. If it's a YouTube video you want to link to, for example, you're going to tell them why they should watch that video. At the end of that one minute or at any point in the video, you want to make sure that you tell people to click the link and point to the top right corner.
The next really important thing is to make sure that you upload a high quality thumbnail into your IGTV video, so it'll prompt you to do this at the beginning of your upload. Now this is important because the IGTV video that you post is actually going to automatically populate to your Instagram feed. If you don't upload a thumbnail, it's going to be just a random shot of your face that maybe looks like that or like that and that doesn't actually entice people to want to click into that video. If you add a custom thumbnail that has a graphic that tells people exactly what that video is about or exactly whatever it is you want them to click to is about, then people on your feed are going to be way more likely to click into that video.
The next thing you're going to want to do is you're going to want to upload that one minute video that you just created to your IGTV channel. Create your title and add your link in the description section and guess what? The link is actually clickable unlike when you add a link to a regular Instagram post. Remember that image where you're pointing to the upper right corner? This is because that is where the arrow is that they need to click to access that link and go to your video or whatever it is that you're linking to.
The next thing you're going to do is upload a quick Instagram story that tells people why they should click to whatever it is you want them to click to. Before you upload the story, you want to link your story to your IGTV post! On the top left corner of that Instagram story, there is a link icon. Click that icon, and you'll see that IGTV video that you just posted. You want to select that video and what that's going to do is it's going to allow the people who are watching your stories to swipe up to go to that IGTV video.
Do you see how this all connects? Basically people who are watching your stories are going to swipe up to get your IGTV video and then that video is going to tell them to click the link to go to your YouTube video or your lead magnet or your sales page or your blog posts or whatever it is that you want to lead to. It's a little bit more maintenance, but this work around works super well. I've tracked it and I get a ton of clicks this way to my videos, to whatever it is that I want to promote so I really do recommend using it and putting in that little bit of extra effort.
If you want to learn more about IGTV and how to dominate Instagram with it, be sure to watch my video, How to Get More Views Using IGTV.
Are you considering buying followers or even getting a bot to get more followers? STOP, I repeat, stop buying followers!!
I'm going to teach you how to boost your followers without a robot or without paying money for them. I grew my account from 2,000 to 9,000 followers this past year. And I did so WITHOUT bots, WITHOUT fake followers and WITHOUT paying for fake followers.
The first thing you can do to increase your followers on Instagram is to actually go out and follow your ideal client. Because every time you follow someone, your account actually pops up in their notifications. So if they are a person who might be interested in the type of content you're putting out there and then they are way more likely to follow you back. So if you are targeting single moms who are looking to lose weight, you might go around and look for Instagram accounts that are owned by single moms, which you can usually tell when you are looking through their feed.
Number two is to be SOCIAL on Instagram. Who knew that you have to be social on social media? So make sure to engage, like, and comment on the posts of your ideal client. When you can start a conversation with someone who might fall into your target market, that will actually tell the Instagram algorithm that they like seeing your content. And you're going to be way more likely to show up in their feed.
The third thing is to be strategic with the hashtags you use when you're posting. This will make you more searchable. So you actually want to go out and do a little bit of hashtag research because if you're using massive hashtags that have millions of posts, as someone who has a small following, you're probably never going to rank in that category. You can utilize Instagram and search for various hashtag and see how many posts that each hashtag has. Now, as someone who has a smaller account, you're going to want to look for hashtags that are maybe under 50,000 or up to 200,000. But I wouldn't go over 200,000 because you're probably not going to rank since you are a smaller account.
My fourth tip is to utilize Instagram Stories every single day of the week, or at least every single day of your work week. Instagram Stories actually populate above the feed. So there are those little circles that are above your individual feed and every time you post a new story, it actually moves you to the front. So when you're posting stories regularly throughout the day, you're way more likely to stay on top of your ideal client's feed and they're going to be way more likely to watch your stories. Now, you want to be strategic with your stories. Instagram Stories is a fantastic way to educate and provide value to your ideal clients. So if you want to get inspired and see the opportunity for the types of Instagram stories that you can post, go ahead to Instagram and follow my account and tune into some of my stories to see how I do it.
My last tip is to optimize your Instagram bio so that when people come to your page, they know exactly what that page is about. So it really grinds my gears when I see health coaches out there posting their certifications, their interests. But there's actually nothing in that bio that tells me what is this page actually about. You only have five seconds to grab this person's attention and make them want to follow your account. So you need to be very clear about who the page is for and what they can expect to get from following the page. If you want to dive a little bit deeper into this and you want to know how to optimize your Instagram bio like a boss, make sure to grab my Instagram Bio Cheat Sheet.
All right, friends, now go grow that Instagram account and fire that robot!
Are you feeling clueless when it comes to Instagram TV or IGTV? Maybe you're wondering, "Should I use it? How can I make it work for you? Is it actually worth using?" Well I'm going to break down for you on what IGTV is and how to use it to get more views to your account.
When Instagram first released IGTV, it was a total fail, but it is a failure no more because Instagram just released some very powerful features that make it absolutely worth using. When I started using Instagram TV videos, I saw 5 to 10 times more engagement and views than any other type of content I was posting on Instagram. So it worked for me and I promise it will work for you too.
So what is IGTV? IGTV is basically Instagram's app to allow you to post longer-form video. With Instagram TV, it is a vertical video, you record it with your smartphone, so super low maintenance, super easy, and the video is between one and 10 minutes. This makes it a perfect tool for educating your ideal client because you have up to 10 minutes to do so, which is lots of time to teach your ideal clients something. In order to access the IGTV app, it is a separate app than Instagram. The two do link together, but you do need to go and download the Instagram TV app so that you can start uploading your videos.
Now, the first piece of advice I'm going to give you about IGTV, is your thumbnail really matters. The new feature that Instagram just added is, now when you post an IGTV video, it actually automatically populates into your Instagram feed. This makes it way more likely that people are going to see and find your video. But if you don't add a custom thumbnail to your video when you upload it, a random picture of your face is just going to populate into your feed. That's actually not going to tell anyone why they should actually watch that video. One important thing to keep in mind is, Instagram actually will zoom in on the center of the image. So you want to make sure your texts or whatever it is that tells your person what the video is about is restricted to the very middle of the image. You're going to have to test with this, but this is very important. It means that new followers to your feed can scroll down and see the name of the videos you've posted, which means they're going to be way more likely to go in and actually watch that video.
My next tip is keep your video short and to the point. It's really easy to ramble on, especially when you have up to 10 minutes, but I actually recommend that you try to keep your videos about five minutes or less. People don't have much attention span these days and it's going to be way more likely that they're going to watch your entire video when it is less than five minutes and it doesn't ramble on too long. Make sure to write down your points on a Post-it Note, stick it next to the top of your camera, next to your phone, so that when you look at your points, you're still looking at the camera, so that you can stay on track and properly educate your ideal client.
The next awesome thing you can do with IGTV in order to promote it and let your audience know that you've posted it, is to actually promote it in your story. You can make a quick video or a quick graphic and you can actually create a swipe up feature even if you don't have 10,000 followers. All you need to do is upload your video or your image to IGTV, and there's a little link button in the top left hand corner. Click the link, select the IGTV video that you just posted, and then let the people know in that video with a sticker that tells them to swipe up. When they swipe up, it's going to go to that IGTV video and then they can watch it.
I have one more bonus tip for you! The description when you upload your IGTV can actually contain a clickable link. So people can actually click on that description and it will take them outside of Instagram. This is really juicy, especially for those of you who don't yet have 10,000 followers. Use it strategically. Do you have a lead magnet or an awesome freebie that is related to the IGTV video that you just did? If so, link to it and make sure in the video you tell people to click the arrow in the top right corner, and that way they can click that link and get that freebie.
Do you feel like your Instagram posts are falling a little flat lately? Do you feel like you create all this great content, but every time you post, you just get crickets? Tune in and watch this video, because I'm going to give you five tips on how to increase your Instagram engagement and create raving fans who want so much more from you.
If you are a health coach or any other type of online coach who wants online business and marketing tips to grow your business, make sure to subscribe to my channel and hit the bell, so you get notified every single Thursday when I post a new video. And if you're super confused as to why your Instagram followers don't seem to give a crap about all the great content you post, by the end of this video, I'm going to give you five super juicy tips to help increase the engagement of your Instagram followers. I went from having total crickets on my Instagram account to regular likes, comments, views, and even DMS, with every single piece of content I post. So if I can do it, you can do it, too.
So tip number one, first off, you need to make sure that you are posting really good, high quality content. You actually need to put some effort into it. If your content isn't good, then there's really nothing you can do to actually increase the amount that people want to engage with it. So first off, make sure you're providing very high quality content. Think of who your ideal client is and what types of things would actually help them in their healing journey, or whatever it is that they are trying to solve. So back in the day with social media and with Instagram, it actually made sense to be posting every single day or even multiple times a day. These days, quality matters way more than quantity.
So how often should you be posting to Instagram? Well, I would say you should be posting as often as you can produce high quality content. If you can do that five days a week, all the power to you. I know I can't, but if you can only post one high quality piece of content a week, then that is fine. Just make sure you're providing a really good value in the Instagram posts that you post to your feed. So for example, long form captions do much better these days. Instagram wants you to actually keep people on Instagram, so post maybe once or twice a week on Instagram. Use a long form caption and just make sure that it provides value and actually gives your ideal clients something that can help them in their journey.
Number two is that you actually have to ask your followers to engage. If you don't ask them to engage, they don't know to engage. Funny enough, people actually like to be told what to do. I mean, I hate being told what to do, but most people, they want to be told what to do. So if you are creating an Instagram story and IGTV or a post for your feed, ask your people a question. Ask them to comment, ask them to like, ask them to double tap, ask them to do something, and they might actually just do it. So every time you write a caption, make sure that you ask them questions during the caption, and at the end, you could say something like, "What is your biggest struggle with your health? Comment and let me know." If you buy into this post, if you love this post, give me a strong arm emoji. Ask them to engage. When you ask, you receive.
Number three is to use IGTV or Instagram TV. So this is Instagram's new app. It was rolled out about a year ago, and it actually allows you to post longer form videos. So video up to ten minutes. And right now, Instagram really wants to push IGTV. And for this reason, your Instagram TV videos are going to get probably five to ten times more engagement than any other piece of content that you might post on Instagram. This is the experience that I was having. My posts are getting less engagement. My stories do pretty well, but my IGTV videos are getting so much more traction. So if you're not currently utilizing IGTV, you need to start using it now. And if you guys are wondering what the heck is IGTV, and how can I optimize it, make sure to watch my video, How to Get More Views Using IGTV.
Number four is get to know the IG story feature. There's all kinds of new features that you can actually use to engage with your audience. For example, there is the ask me a question feature. There is the chat feature where you can invite, I think, 32 people into a chat to actually engage with them. You can create a poll, you can ask them to send you a DM. There are so many different stickers and emojis and GIFs that you can use on your IG stories to actually get your people to engage with you. So your homework is to go on your IG stories right now and experiment with some of those features.
Number five is to reach out and engage with your followers. So outreach is something I still do, even though I have 9,000 plus followers on my Instagram account. So anytime someone follows you, who you believe fits into that ideal client of yours, go into the DMs and send them a message, a personal message, not one of those cheesy automated replies. Those actually piss me off a little bit, so don't do that. Please don't do that. But what you can do is you can go send people a personal message or, even better, you can send them a voice message. So this is something that I love to do with any new followers who follow me if they look like they're an ideal client.
So for me, it might be a health coach or some other type of online coach, I actually send them a DM voice message and I say, "Hey, thank you for following my account. I really appreciate it. I was looking through your feed and I noticed this, or I noticed that. That's really cool. And hey, I'm wondering, what's your biggest struggle in your business? I'm creating some free content right now and I love to take inspiration from my followers." And if they get back to you, especially if they send you back a voice message, that is really high quality engagement that ranks super high in the Instagram algorithm. And what that means is they are going to be way more likely to see your stories and your posts in their feed. Because what that tells Instagram is that they like your content.
Dating is hard these days. Through being an entrepreneur in the mix and it becomes even MORE complicated. As an entrepreneur and looking for love, you have to ask yourself the important question – do you want to date another entrepreneur or a 9-5 worker? While it may not seem like that big of a deal, It's hard for people who don't run a business to understand your passion and the fact that your business is your baby. This means that you work evenings and weekends, that money isn’t always flowing, and that your partner may not be your first priority.
In this episode, we get to hear the modern day romance of Kendra and Ryan, two entrepreneurs that have been making it work for the last three years. We discuss how dating another entrepreneur can be beneficial to your business. You can bounce ideas off one another, support one another as you know what the other person is going through, and learn from one another. But two entrepreneurs dating isn’t always rainbows and butterflies. Like most relationships, and boundaries need to be set and rules established (but sometimes broken).
On the flip side to Kendra’s relationship, we also hear about Christine’s past relationship with a non-entrepreneur and where things didn’t go as planned. Again, like other relationships, money was a big factor….not to mention her turn ons include talking social media in bed and not everyone is into that.
Whether it’s a romantic relationships, friendship or even partnerships, we dive into communication skills and techniques that can be used across the board. Because it can be lonely as an entrepreneur and it's really important to find your people, or as Christine put it, find another zebra.
In addition to being Kendra’s love, Ryan Flett is also an outdoor adventure photographer, filmmaker, and educator. Over the past decade, he has worked in the action sports and tourism industries but now has focused his sights on environmental sustainability, climate change activism and cultivating positive change through imagery, film, and community connection.
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Christine: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to this new episode of the 360 Health Biz Podcast. And today is a very special ones, because we're going to air our not so clean underwear. Very sexy though, [crosstalk 00:00:14] obviously.
Christine: Today, I have with me my beautiful cohost Kendra Perry, who I can't hit on her too much today because she's got her lovely boyfriend Ryan flat with her, because today's topic is about how you can deal, or how you can be in a relationship as an entrepreneur, and you might say a successful relationship. And we have two different stories, because Kendra is making it work, I didn't. Mine ended up in flames in a divorce, but it's a really happy divorce. So we'll be talking about all of this, about the different challenges that are there, the personal development things, just when you change and just, what we learned from this and hopefully it will help you or just make you feel less bad or isolated. Who knows? That's the way we are brutally honest. I'm looking forward to this.
Christine: So, Kendra, tell us a little bit about Ryan? What does he do? How are you both entrepreneurs? Because that's a little bit of a special one as well, both of you are actually entrepreneurs. So, we'll start off there.
Kendra: Maybe I'll start with how we met, because I think we have a modern-day love story because we met on Tinder.
Christine: Which is for me, just a getting laid platform by now. So, I don't know [crosstalk 00:01:27].
Kendra: It may have changed since, and honestly, when I was doing the Tinder online dating, I was on a Tinder dating spree. I was just like, I want to date all the guys I want to have fun, whatever. I don't want a relationship. And I didn't really expect to meet someone, and we both swiped right. And I thought about it for a while, because I was like, "Oh man, he's super ginger. I just don't know."
Ryan: Just saying, my ex husband was ginger too. So there's a thing going on.
Kendra: Yeah. We love the ginger. Yeah. So we connected and then Ryan sent me this sweet, yet borderline creepy, message.
Ryan: It was to get your attention. It was like, "You ski? You cook? Marry me?"
Christine: I would have run. I would have been-
Ryan: I know.
Christine: Oh God, bye.
Kendra: I definitely was like, "Ooh, I don't know. I don't know." But we started chatting, and then we got together at a coffee shop, and as soon as I saw Ryan, he was very handsome, and I was like, "Oh fuck, I'm in trouble." But it was a little bit more of a slow burn for Ryan. I was in right away and it took Ryan a little bit longer to get on board. But I was patient-
Christine: Wow. [crosstalk 00:02:40] understand.
Kendra: I was patient, and he just wanted to take things slow and not repeat similar mistakes in past relationships, which I can respect, but obviously as an anxious attachment type of person, I was like, "Yeah, it's cool, it's cool." And then inside I was dying. [crosstalk 00:02:59].
Christine: Yeah, yeah.
Ryan: Yeah, because I'd had previous relationships where I jumped in full boar, and within a month it's hanging out together every single day, and [crosstalk 00:03:08] been eight years. So I was very aware of that. But it was very interesting to hang with Kendra because I hadn't had a partner who skied and climbed and biked and just enjoyed the outdoors as much as I did.
Christine: Yeah. [crosstalk 00:03:20] everything on past experiences. It's hard to let go.
Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And then our first real date after that coffee date was a ski date, because we'd both been raised on skiing, and it was to check each other out because for both of us it's a huge part of our lives, and I'm looking over my shoulder being like, "Okay, she can ski." And she was doing the exact same thing too. You're like, "Okay, this guy can ski. We can move forward with this a little bit."
Kendra: Yeah. Exactly. We had to check out each other's skiing skills and then, yeah, we dated for a while, and things progressed slowly. I think we made it exclusive a few months later, and then at one point, maybe around six months, I just told Ryan, I'm like, "So you're my boyfriend now. That's what I'm telling people, and that's the way it is."
Christine: He rolled with it.
Kendra: Yeah. I was like, "This is what's happening." And then I think things got really serious for us probably around the eight or nine month mark after Ryan left me for seven weeks, I think, he went to Nepal. I was like, "Yeah, go have fun / I'm dying inside." [crosstalk 00:04:27] But he went to Nepal, and I think he ... what did you do? A silent Buddhist meditation retreat?
Ryan: Well, I did intro to Buddhism, which was a little bit of silence and meditation and teachings of Buddhism over 10 days. And yeah, dealt with some pretty significant things that were going on my life, and it was definitely the changing point in my now current life, it was definitely that trip.
Ryan: So, yeah, I came back and Kendra was very enthralled with how I was acting. And since then-
Kendra: There was a definite shift. I was like, "Okay, the walls are suddenly down. I have no idea what the fuck happened in Nepal, but the walls are down, and this is good."
Christine: Everyone, send your guys to Nepal. There we go.
Kendra: Yeah, exactly.
Christine: Meditate. Go figure out [crosstalk 00:05:17]-
Ryan: Go meditate and think about stuff for a while, and be quiet for a bit.
Kendra: Yeah. It's something we don't do that often. But yeah, after that, we exchanged I love yous and then Ryan asked me to build a house with him, and that's now what we're currently doing. I think we're at three and a half years together now and yeah, we're building a house, our dream house, should be ready soon. And we've both been entrepreneurs from the start of our relationship. Although at the beginning of our relationship we are in very different places. I was new in my business, and I was broke, and I was in early entrepreneur struggle town whereas Ryan was more established.
Christine: So what did Ryan do? Maybe we should actually tell people.
Ryan: Appreciate it. Appreciate it. [crosstalk 00:05:55] Absolutely.
Ryan: I'm a professional photographer and filmmaker, primarily in the outdoor adventure and environmental industry. I've been skiing and camping and all that my entire life, and I found a way to merge my lifestyle and my work. When I was about 22 years old, I was always obsessed with taking images. So since 22 I started working for different themes, all in outdoor adventure, primarily around skiing, and about when I was 30, 29, I got a job back near Nelson here and that's about the same time I met Kendra. And that's what Kendra referred to as, when she was on the low money spectrum and the real hustle time in her business, I had this consistent thing for about four years, so I was more of a support for Kendra to be like, "Hey, you have to push through this. You'll be fine. You just have to keep going."
Ryan: And now those roles have been flipped, because Kendra has gone through those three or four years of growth and consistency, and then I quit that solid ... It was a contract, but it was almost a job. And then I quit that a year and a half ago, two years ago. And I have my photography business, which is my own sole proprietor business. And then I also have a film production business with my partner Bohdan Doval, but it's also all around film production.
Ryan: And now I'm a photographer, a filmmaker, a producer, a director, and generally the person who just makes shit happen. That's really what I do. I mean I make shit happen.
Christine: Founder, administrator, all of these things. I mean, that's what comes with all of it. When we say our job titles, it's not just that, what we do, we have to run this whole boat of things.
Christine: So yeah, I think it's super interesting because you both started out that way and then roles reversed [crosstalk 00:07:51] you started out with the same kind of foundation, and I think that's maybe the biggest difference, because, well, I met my husband, I was 27, so we were together for nine years, but I had a very different life at the time. I had a full time job. I never thought I'd be an entrepreneur.
Christine: So we got married and had kids and had perfect house and everything was fine, and it's still fine. I could still be with my husband and it'd be fine. However I'm a not fine person in a way, so I think through the personal development, I've just changed so much, and I just didn't know. I didn't know who I'd become and how much I'd changed. I think the biggest difference, and we might be talking about that too, because Kendra and I are very different in that area, is money, and a big, big problem to me. And my husband was money because that was when we would get in fight. And it's not like it drained our bank account; it was always fair. But I remember very clearly that I started to do my personal development and I really realized how I was changing and how I was growing, and how he has this restrictive traditional money mindset.
Christine: And then [crosstalk 00:09:02] where it really sparked was when I did my first 10K sale and then told him and his reaction was, "Oh, okay." And it was taking those wings and clipping them brutally, [crosstalk 00:09:15] back bound to earth, and that killed me and I was, "I cannot do this." And as it happened I met other people who understood exactly what I was doing, who also understood the work, because I think it's very hard if you are not an entrepreneur yourself to understand the struggles, and you referred to Kendra in the beginning being in those ups and downs, nobody who's not going through it will understand what that feels like.
Christine: And then finally reaching that point where you are like, "I made it, or at least I think I made it."
Ryan: Yeah, I think I made it.
Christine: Exactly. That enthusiasm, and then having put the brakes on, that's not ever going to let you fly, so that there were other issues too. But I think that was for me, the biggest, biggest problem, that I'd not see myself grow. And it was a question of am I going to lead my life and do what I want to do or not, because I couldn't do it with him.
Christine: We had a very peaceful divorce, I have to say. I left in October, we got divorced in April, we're going on holiday with our daughter together this summer, we see each other every day. So it's beautiful. I always say I have the best ex husband in the world, and definitely the best dad to my daughter. [crosstalk 00:10:28]. But I couldn't make it happen.
Christine: I always proud of myself that we communicate, and I think it crept up on me just as much as it did on him. But the differences, I think, through the personal development journey, I learned very quickly what I want, and that it's clear. And that way I knew that when I took the decision there no way back. And he knew it too. We never argued. That was never really a try to make things work again and to fix things because it was just, he knows, okay, there's nothing I can do, which he was right on.
Christine: But I think that's the biggest challenge when you are with a non entrepreneur.
Kendra: Yeah. I think it's a big challenge. It's hard for people who don't run a business to maybe understand the passion and the fact that your business is kind of your baby, right? You put everything into it, and-
Christine: More. I would argue more than your baby because it is how you nourish your baby. [crosstalk 00:11:26] my daughter, my business is the way that I can help her live, basically. So it's a lot of pressure on it, and so I think that's a big, big, big difference.
Ryan: Yeah. I feel really fortunate that we had that connection early on. I come from [inaudible 00:11:45] that's more content and visual, and I thought I knew all about social media. And then the first three weeks we Kendra, I was, "Holy, I barely know anything. And Kendra's so granular and you go micro. You understand the macro, but you go really micro. And I think the sports that we participated in and was one chunk of our relationship, and then another big part of it was back and forth about business and supporting each other, that flow of ideas. And that has continued. Sometimes we have a, actually, we do have boundaries with that, because obviously we have to set those, but it's gone really well because I wouldn't be at the place in my business right now if it wasn't for Kendra, and we've been able to support each other, and you understand those highs and those lows. I was talking to Kendra about it last night, where if I'm down and whatever's happening, she's like, "You know what, you're super talented. You gotta keep on going. I empathize with where you're at."
Ryan: And that makes it so much easier versus previous relationships would be like, "Why aren't you making money? What are you doing?" And this struggle and this growth that takes time. I even tell my business partner this, I'm like, "You know what, we're at the very beginning, and this is totally normal what we're going through." And just to have that, and from what I am learning with Kendra and I, I then take that to other clients, other partnerships to be like, "Okay, this is how you foster this relationship and understand what each person is going through."
Christine: Yes, I agree. It's a learning curve for sure, and I just feel like, for me a requirement now actually for the next relationship at some point is to be with someone who gets that. I don't think, I don't want to, first of all, I wouldn't be with someone again who has a 9-to-5, because I just know I would run into the same problem again.
Christine: [crosstalk 00:13:43] me curious, if you listening out there and you have that relationship, how are you making it work? Because I didn't. You guys are both entrepreneurs. I'd love to see how you can be happy and fulfilled in your marriage or relationship when you do have that. I wish I could have made it work, but at the same time I met at much better place now, so I on't really, in a way. I wish I could've avoided it, let's put it that way. But everything happens for a reason, I guess.
Kendra: It's true, and I think it definitely probably is more challenging, and I think most people who are listening to this, most entrepreneurs who listen to our podcast are probably in more of your style of relationship. I think it's not super common that two entrepreneurs are together, and yeah, we'd love to know. Send us an email: email@example.com and let us know, because I think it is challenging and I think the other partner who's not the entrepreneur does struggle to understand maybe why you're working in the evenings or working on the weekend or why you go through these highs and lows, or maybe the money stuff. I think that's really interesting that that was such a big issue with you, because, yeah, people have a lot of messed up relationships about money, and when you're an entrepreneur you have to really work on your money mindset and believe in abundance, and you have to be motivated by money to some degree. You can't just be like, "I want to help people. I want to do this." The money has to be a part of that.
Kendra: And some other people, the 9-to-5 people, they may think, "Oh well, that's greedy."
Christine: Yes. That was the problem. When I was seeing a beautiful new Tesla, I was like, "I want one of these." And my ex would just say, "Oh, I would never get in that car with you. That is so embarrassing. It's such a show-off." I'm just, "Stop judging those people. You have no idea what they did to get money, how they work. That's not to say that everyone who has money sold their soul or is selling drugs or [inaudible 00:15:34] little kids." I think that's still ingrained in so many people, and if you are an entrepreneur and you have someone around you, even if they don't mean it, they are not aware of this, most of the time, it's not they mean it negatively, but they never need to ask themselves these questions about money. They don't have to do that, work in order to not just attract money, but actually be okay to receive it and to ask for it without feeling horrible.
Christine: And so you're just in very different places. And I'm not sure if you can ever get there if you have someone who you live with or you spend your life with constantly shitting on that.
Ryan: Yeah. And I found, even in growing up with my family, my mom was a nurse, my dad worked for the government, my sister's a teacher, they're in that consistent paycheck, get a job, do that thing. And that was always what I was pushed to be, like, "This is how you'll be successful and you'll live your life." And I was like, "I don't want to do that. I want to do what I want." And I had a lot of years of it being really tough. And I remember saying to my parents one year, I was 21, right before I got my first big photography job, and they were like, "Why don't you go and get a job in this?" I'm like, "No, I have to do this for me. My happiness is number one and what I love the most, I'm probably going to do the best." And I've stayed with that. [crosstalk 00:16:59]. Yeah. Definitely. Definitely will do the best.
Ryan: And so now, 10 years in, I keep saying that to people, and Kendra and I, we constantly talk to our friends about businesses and entrepreneurship because they'll all have an idea and we're like, "You should lean into that, even if you start just doing an hour a week." And some of them are like, "Oh, I need my consistent paycheck, and I respect that," but then there's some people who right away think, "Oh, I can't do that." And you go, "No, no, no, you can. It takes time and you can just incrementally chip away at it.
Ryan: But for Kendra and I, I find that Lisa, this is from my perspective, is that our businesses have been increasing because we've constantly had that interaction back and forth of, I guess, you can bouncing off each other and go, "Oh, how about this way you think about this?" And Kendra's really helped me with my writing, and I've helped Kendra with her imagery and website, and like I've said previously, I wouldn't be where I'm at without Kendra.
Christine: I absolutely believe that. I mean, I think we all need this bouncing bag, especially in a partnership. And I think there's nothing, honestly, there's nothing more sexy than being in bed and talking social media or marketing.
Ryan: Yeah. Tell Kendra about that. I don't fully believe that, but Kendra a 100% believes that.
Kendra: That's my foreplay.
Ryan: Oh, my God.
Christine: Exactly. It's a total turn on for me too, having someone go and I tell them, I had this algorithm, or we saw this statistic, or I've just read this article on SEO, and someone going, "Oh yeah, what did it say?" It's like, "What?" I'm swiping right.
Christine: But even knowing what that means, or, I don't know, email funnels or client onboarding or all these things that dominate your life and that excite you, because when you're figuring it out, it's so exciting. So, I mean that is, I think what I am, if you're listening out there, I'm single.
Ryan: That's what I like.
Kendra: Just coming back around to this idea of the person you're with or even your family members not understanding, I think that's the most important thing to keep in mind is they want you to be safe. They want to protect you, and in their opinion, they don't understand running a business, and that's not a safe option to them, especially there's a lot of negative words around running a business. I always hear this statistic thrown around that 95% of small businesses fail [crosstalk 00:19:25]-
Christine: Oh yeah. I hate that.
Kendra: When you break it down, I don't think that's really true. I think it has to do with people refiling taxes, and that could mean that they changed their business structure or they changed their business or they weren't into it. There's just so many reasons why somebody would refile their taxes for their business. But I think it's a scary thing. And the reason why your partner or your family or your friends don't understand and are confused, is not because they don't support you. I think it's because they want you to be safe, and what we're doing isn't a safe option, and it's not for everyone.
Ryan: Yeah. And I think society in general, you look at a job as this, you get it and you have a job. Whereas you run a business, that 95% of businesses go under, well, it's so many different levels. Someone could have just started something and gone two months and done a little bit of research but then backed away on it, because it's so much more of a journey and personal development and growth. It's not like, oh, not job, job. It's so much more than that.
Ryan: And most people don't understand that. I'm constantly telling people, because it looks I'm always out in the mountains, they're like, "Oh, you live this amazing life." I'm like, "You know what, I probably spend just as much time on the computer as you or probably more because I work six or seven days a week, but I also love what I do." And people are like, "I don't know how you do it," but I'm like, "When you get into the small things, it's similar." I'm doing admin, I'm emailing, I'm contacting. So it seems this amazing thing always and it's not. It's always a balance. It's always a balance of different things.
Ryan: But I find that it clicks my brain on, whereas a job clicked my brain off. I just got into a system and now I don't want to be in systems. I want it to be different and creative and always looking in new directions. And it's also on me. It's accountability. I've taken that spin of this is all on me and anything that happens in my business is on me, and that makes every single situation and every single conversation so much easier.
Christine: Exactly. And it's a lesson learned in case it doesn't work. Kendra and I were even talking about this. Sometimes you meet at another zebra [crosstalk 00:21:54] a lot of entrepreneurs being zebras, they're just different. And when you have a conversation with them, when you talk about these things, suddenly you see that spark in their eye, and it's like, "You're one of us."
Christine: I really literally think you don't always know that you are, you just feel something's off. But very often life is so comfortable that you don't notice. And it's one of the things when I talk to people, and I did a podcast recently, and it's called Just Say the Word, and you had to find one word. And my word was loneliness. And it's not that I'm a lonely people. I wouldn't consider myself emo, or anything that. But when you do do that journey, you change, and it is isolating because you start gaining new people who are 100% yours because they get to know you when you are you, but you also lose a lot. And it's not to be negative, but I just want to say that when people do figure out, oh I'm a zebra, I really want to do this. And when they start tapping into who they are, to be aware of that and that you are changing. And it might be that you are losing people, and if you are in a relationship, tell your partner that.
Christine: And I remember that last year, we were on the beach, family vacation, very picturesque, sun, beach, everything, and I was doing tapping exercises, and my husband was just like, "You're so embarrassing, sitting on the beach, tapping around and everything." And I was like, "I know it. It works." And I'm not sure if he particular would have understood, but maybe someone else in a relationship would actually be, "Okay. Tell me more about this." And I think probably what I do different now is to really say, "You need to listen to me. You need to understand what this means to be me." And even if they don't completely, I think having them try is probably enough.
Kendra: Yeah. And I think it's unlikely that you're going to find another entrepreneur to be with. But I think you just need to find someone who understands and can show interest and be supportive, and maybe you just need to be very upfront with what it's like, right? Because it's very up and down. It's very roller coaster, you're very emotionally attached to it and you have a lot of highs and lows. But I feel like maybe everyone's like, "Oh, it's so great. Kendra and Ryan are both entrepreneurs, they understand each other," and it's true. But there are still challenges being two entrepreneurs. Our struggle has been finding the boundary.
Christine: So what once you do give us some specific ...
Kendra: We have a few rules that we-
Christine: Just to get [inaudible 00:24:33] we are sharing the wall to my right, and I can hear [crosstalk 00:24:37]. I can hear the audio. That's why I have the big headphones on. Just to get the spatial awareness of where we are. Sorry, Kendra. Go for it.
Kendra: Well I was just going to say we've had to implement a few rules, which we do break occasionally, but we're trying to get better. For one thing, when the door is closed, you can't come in, because before we just burst into each other's office and the person's focusing and we're like, "Blah blah blah blah. I need to talk about this. Social media, blah blah blah. Groceries. The bathroom's dirty." Whatever. And it's just like, okay, this is not okay. We can't do this to each other. So we have this rule now, and we've gotten a lot better, occasionally it still does get broken, but when the doors close, you're at work, you can't come in. And we literally will Facebook message each other and be like, "Hey, do you have two minutes to talk?"
Christine: That's like a secret knock. ... urgent.
Kendra: Yeah. So we try to respect each other's space like that, and this is something we need to work on too, but we've tried to have a, after 6:00 PM rule, no business. Let's not just talk about business. Let's connect about other things. Let's go do things. Let's get out of the house and not talk about Facebook.
Christine: I agree. Yeah. I think that's awesome. That's an awesome rule.
Ryan: Yeah. And it's been helpful, because we were breaking those boundaries and it was causing disruptions and also an understanding of this is my space and I'm working in here and I'm getting whatever done, and I need to focus. And for both of us, we would sometimes come in and be like, "Oh, this crappy thing happened." And all of a sudden our day just gets thrown off. You Go, "Oh, okay, now I'm thinking about that, and I feel bad, or that I'm not doing enough," or whatever. So it's better now, and when we're in our new house, Kendra will have an office upstairs, and I have an office downstairs, and Kendra got the upstairs office because she's behind her computer in her office a lot longer than am, which I think is totally fair, but to have that separation, I think, will be better.
Ryan: And then [crosstalk 00:26:49] I'll build an office, probably 12 by 12 office up in the forest, a hundred feet away from the house to really have that separation, to really feel like, oh, that's my workspace. And I think that's-
Christine: I love that, yeah.
Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. But still coming back and connecting. We cross over at lunch time and we'll if we have any quick questions for each other and then we're going through, we'll just touch on it quickly and then we go back to our work. But yeah, that spatial separation I think has been helpful, especially because this is the first time we've really done this.
Christine: Yeah. I like this rules that you don't open the door, you just know spatial separation. I think that's all amazing, and also you know that you support each other when something goes wrong. I know Kendra is the biggest champion. She's been that for me too. [crosstalk 00:27:38]-
Kendra: "Nothing's working."
Christine: Like, "I believe in you. You're so awesome." "Okay, I am."
Ryan: Yeah, yeah.
Christine: I have to say my ex was supportive too, because I had my meltdowns too. And he would just say, "You always make it," and he's right. You always make it. And he was right. It's not that he wasn't supportive, it was just a bigger mindset kind of thing. But yeah. Oh, it's so interesting. I'm taking notes for future Mr. Perfect [crosstalk 00:28:08].
Ryan: And I did find that the small breakdowns that we each have, if we didn't have each other [crosstalk 00:28:20]. Oh, yeah. And I feel like, especially in the past, that those breakdowns for me would have been longer. They would have stretched a longer span of days. Whereas I can voice what's going on and I think Kendra can reflect this as well too, but I can voice what's going on and then Kendra and empathize with it and then be like, "Oh no, you're going to be fine. I've gone through this and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah." And it just shortens that period to be like, "Oh no," next morning I'm like, "Oh yeah, I'm totally fine."
Christine: That's really great.
Ryan: Yeah, because I had, once again, so once I'd bounce ideas off. So simple, but ...
Kendra: It's really important to find your people as an entrepreneur, because it is really isolating. When you said loneliness, it is very lonely. You work from home, you work in front of your computer. And that's why me and Christine connected quite quickly, because we were totally on the same wavelength we had a lot of the same goals. And it's funny that we're so close because we're actually incredibly different. We're very, very different. We differ on some really big foundational stuff-
Christine: Money being one of them. But it's still works. It's weird.
Kendra: Yeah. And just even you're the glam city girl, I'm the mountain girl. You live in the ocean. I live in the mountains, but we connect on that business thing and when we hung out in San Diego in March, we had so much fun. It was great. [crosstalk 00:29:43]-
Christine: ... forever. And I love our Atlantic session. I love having a 14-minute Box from Kendra and I'm just brushing my teeth. ... I'm like, "Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh." [crosstalk 00:29:56].
Kendra: You've gotta find your business besties, whoever that is, and they may be people who are online. And that's typically how it's going to be depending on where you live. I know where you live. There's not a ton of entrepreneurs and we're in a small town, so we don't have that many either. But, find your business besties, you need a business bestie. You really do.
Ryan: Yeah. Even in comparative industries. For me, I've been around a lot of athletes. I've been around filmers, lodge owners. I'm not lonely in my business. It's not as many entrepreneurs, but I've had people to constantly chat with or go over things with and be open minded to be like, "Oh, I wouldn't even have thought about that." And a big thing for myself in entrepreneurship is, now, I always try to come from the standpoint of trying to understand my customer clients, and how I can bring them the ultimate value. And that has made every single situation way better. And I have all these people, like all these marketing managers being like, "No one has asked me what I wanted in two years."
Christine: That's [crosstalk 00:31:09].
Ryan: Yeah. And even two or three years ago, I wouldn't have thought, because I'm thinking, oh what do I want to do? I, I, I, and now I come from like, "Hey. I want to understand you." And right away, that just opens people up to be like, "Oh wow, oh, oh you want to know what I want? Really?" And it also makes it easier for me, because I understand what they want and then I write them a proposal exactly for what they want. And I had two previous contracts over this last month where I said some key words because I really interviewed these marketing managers or general managers and I was having a meeting with them. They were like, "You just read my mind." They're like, "You actually just read my mind perfectly."
Ryan: And it seems a trick, but it's just being open minded and really understanding of what the value I can bring someone, which most entrepreneurs don't really do. It's like, "I this, I that." That's not what rocks the boat.
Christine: It's so interesting because I think Kendra and I, we do coaching inherently, but I do totally agree that in, especially in the creative industry or anything like that, it's very often the case. And even if your clients are something where you're just like eye roll, you can manipulate it in a way that they stay [inaudible 00:32:24] that it's what they wanted and we can still make it work.
Kendra: Yeah. And I think it just comes around to serving your people, right? Knowing what they want, because in the end we need to be of service as coaches. Me and Christine are coaches and we serve people, and yeah, that's really where it needs to come from is like what do they need? What do they want? what are the words that they use, which is what Ryan is doing just in a different industry. He's listening. He's like what are the exact words that they use and the things that they want, because in the end you had to make it about your customer, your client, and not about you.
Christine: Just this conversation that we have here is something that I never had, because even if I just used the word client with my ex partner, it would feel really weird for no reason. I just feel it off. And also because we got to know each other when I wasn't [crosstalk 00:33:18] clients, when I wasn't "selling myself," but yeah, that's what I do. So I think it's so weird. It's natural now, but it's so strange when you change that way. It's really strange.
Ryan: Yeah. And I find another big change has just been asking, constantly asking. I'm in an industry where people want to work with these big brands, and they're like, "How do I get it?" And people think that you build a website and you put some stuff out there, they're going to come to you. And I had that mentality for a long time, and now I'm in that I chase, and I try to understand, and then I pitch. [crosstalk 00:33:58]. Yeah. And always coming in and thinking of how do I bring value and where do we align? And I use that a lot. I find our ideals and our morals and our goals align. I'd love to collaborate, and I always say in emails, "I want to see if I can bring you any value."
Ryan: And it's also not marginalizing myself. I say, "Hey, I do great work, but I don't fit with everyone. But for the clients that I do click with, we can create absolutely amazing things together." And it puts the standpoint where it's a little bit of an ego, but it's also being like, oh, I just won't take all work. It's going like, "I want to find who works well for me because I have a certain set of skills that I can give you, but I want to make sure that we're on the same path, because that is going to be the foundation of creating great work together."
Christine: Great. Great. Yeah, that's amazing.
Kendra: Yeah. And Ryan does create fantastic, fantastic work. He's very talented.
Ryan: Oh, thanks [crosstalk 00:35:00].
Kendra: It's like who's this woman? Oh, it's Kendra. No, I'm kidding.
Ryan: Yeah, yeah. She's my main model. She gets a lot of Instagram imagery out of that. Don't you, babe?
Kendra: Yeah. I do. And you've really helped me edit my photos. I get a lot of compliments on my photos and that they look cohesive and they're really nicely edited and I owe that to Ryan. He's really helped me. And I do it all through phone apps, iPhone or Google apps, so it's awesome.
Kendra: If people are into outdoor photography, if they want to see your work, Ryan, where can they find you?
Ryan: You can check out my main website, which is ryanflettmedia.com or you can check out my Instagram, is @ryan_flett, F-L-E-T-T. That's the best way to look for my work. And also my film production company, which is altuscollective.com, A-L-T-U-S Collective. And that's my newer film production company. And yeah, that's more of the road that I'm going down. And I find that that stream is opening up a lot of doors, because I'm not pigeonholing myself into just photography, but I'm coming from a standpoint of ... I'm an extrovert, obviously, and I like to control, I'm quite self aware that I like control, but I've been able to harness those and be like, okay, I understand the visual side. I really like organizing, I like to have some control, but I want to be able to create a great product for people.
Ryan: So I find, with my business partner and other clients, where I fit best and also being very aware of my strengths and weaknesses, and my partner is more of an introvert, but he's extremely talented filmmaker, and he's a little bit more reserved but I try to empower him as much as I possibly can, be like, "Hey, you're the expert in this. This is what I think, but I want to hear any feedback you have or any new ideas or anything." And fortunately we're both fairly level headed and have these great conversations. One thing we really do is every project we get, we evaluate if we're on the right path, because we don't want to [crosstalk 00:37:26]. Yeah. And I think this is a thing with entrepreneurs that I've talked to where you know you need to make money, you need to go off tangents to grab money, but as you continue on, you don't want to keep doing that and then being spread so thin on this way and you're not known for anything.
Ryan: So we're making sure that we're on a defined path with our vision and our goals and we constantly reassess and be like, "Is this something that's carrying us forward towards our goals?"
Christine: Perfect. I think that's incredibly important, because there's a lot of opportunities that are really not opportunities in disguise. They're really going to help build someone else's business and not yours. And I think in the beginning you say yes to everything, but like Ryan said, you got to figure out what's your ultimate goal and what's actually going to move you forward and learning to say no. That is actually really empowering, even though it's like, well that's going to make me money but it's not quite what I want to do. So that's a really nice way to tie things up.
Ryan: Yeah. Absolutely.
Christine: Yeah. So a future Mr. Christine, if I'm making money with you, I'm kidding. Am I? I don't know. Maybe.
Kendra: And you guys should check out the YouTube video because Christine's in a super sexy shirt. So all you [crosstalk 00:38:39] rich entrepreneurs out there check out the video [crosstalk 00:38:43] on our YouTube channel areas. But it's so hard. These guys are in ski costumes and I'm [crosstalk 00:38:51] we use outside and just want to tell everyone.
Christine: All right, well thanks so much Ryan for hanging out with us today. It's been a [crosstalk 00:39:00] conversation, we really appreciate it.
Christine: And, guys, as always, we love Instagram. So if you are listening to this episode, take a screenshot, share into your stories, make sure to mention 360, help his podcast and let us know your biggest take home or what your favorite part of the episode was. And then we will share it to our stories.
Kendra: Or tips.
Christine: Tell us how did you make it work? How did it not work, what is your lesson? We want to know that stuff, because obviously you don't know everything so you can teach us a lot too. Or if you have a single friend, it's fine.
Kendra: Just send all your single friend photos to hello@360healthbiz [crosstalk 00:39:39].
Ryan: Watch out for that.
Christine: All right. With that, we're going to call it a day, so you can check everything out, video, blog post, audio on 360healthbizpodcast.com, on our Instagram, please tag us and leave us a review and we will talk to you in two weeks.