All Posts by Kendra Perry

How to Get the Swipe Up Feature on Instagram (WITHOUT 10K FOLLOWERS!)


Are you totally jealous of all the Instagram accounts out there that have the swipe up feature? I hear you. I'm just like you. When I made this video, I didn't  have 10,000 followers yet, so I discovered a sneaky little work around that will allow you to access the swipe up feature without having 10K followers.

The swipe up feature converts super, super well on Instagram, but what a shame it is when you have less than 10K and you can't access this feature. Now, when you don't have 10K, it's not quite as seamless as it would be if you had 10K and you wanted to use the swipe up feature. It does take a little bit more effort, but I promise you it's fully worth it because you can send people from Instagram to your website, to your sales page or your landing page.

Now, the first thing you're going to want to do is you're going to want to create a one minute vertical video and you're going to do that making your smartphone. Just take your phone record a one minute video, and in that video you're going to tell people why they should be clicking on your link. If it's a YouTube video you want to link to, for example, you're going to tell them why they should watch that video. At the end of that one minute or at any point in the video, you want to make sure that you tell people to click the link and point to the top right corner.

The next really important thing is to make sure that you upload a high quality thumbnail into your IGTV video, so it'll prompt you to do this at the beginning of your upload. Now this is important because the IGTV video that you post is actually going to automatically populate to your Instagram feed. If you don't upload a thumbnail, it's going to be just a random shot of your face that maybe looks like that or like that and that doesn't actually entice people to want to click into that video. If you add a custom thumbnail that has a graphic that tells people exactly what that video is about or exactly whatever it is you want them to click to is about, then people on your feed are going to be way more likely to click into that video.

The next thing you're going to want to do is you're going to want to upload that one minute video that you just created to your IGTV channel. Create your title and add your link in the description section and guess what? The link is actually clickable unlike when you add a link to a regular Instagram post. Remember that image where you're pointing to the upper right corner? This is because that is where the arrow is that they need to click to access that link and go to your video or whatever it is that you're linking to.

The next thing you're going to do is upload a quick Instagram story that tells people why they should click to whatever it is you want them to click to. Before you upload the story, you want to link your story to your IGTV post! On the top left corner of that Instagram story, there is a link icon. Click that icon, and you'll see that IGTV video that you just posted. You want to select that video and what that's going to do is it's going to allow the people who are watching your stories to swipe up to go to that IGTV video.

Do you see how this all connects? Basically people who are watching your stories are going to swipe up to get your IGTV video and then that video is going to tell them to click the link to go to your YouTube video or your lead magnet or your sales page or your blog posts or whatever it is that you want to lead to. It's a little bit more maintenance, but this work around works super well. I've tracked it and I get a ton of clicks this way to my videos, to whatever it is that I want to promote so I really do recommend using it and putting in that little bit of extra effort.

If you want to learn more about IGTV and how to dominate Instagram with it, be sure to watch my video, How to Get More Views Using IGTV.

Boost Instagram Followers in 2019 (WITHOUT BOTS!)


Are you considering buying followers or even getting a bot to get more followers? STOP, I repeat, stop buying followers!!

I'm going to teach you how to boost your followers without a robot or without paying money for them. I grew my account from 2,000 to 9,000 followers this past year. And I did so WITHOUT bots, WITHOUT fake followers and WITHOUT paying for fake followers.

The first thing you can do to increase your followers on Instagram is to actually go out and follow your ideal client. Because every time you follow someone, your account actually pops up in their notifications. So if they are a person who might be interested in the type of content you're putting out there and then they are way more likely to follow you back. So if you are targeting single moms who are looking to lose weight, you might go around and look for Instagram accounts that are owned by single moms, which you can usually tell when you are looking through their feed.

Number two is to be SOCIAL on Instagram. Who knew that you have to be social on social media? So make sure to engage, like, and comment on the posts of your ideal client. When you can start a conversation with someone who might fall into your target market, that will actually tell the Instagram algorithm that they like seeing your content. And you're going to be way more likely to show up in their feed. 

The third thing is to be strategic with the hashtags you use when you're posting. This will make you more searchable. So you actually want to go out and do a little bit of hashtag research because if you're using massive hashtags that have millions of posts, as someone who has a small following, you're probably never going to rank in that category. You can utilize Instagram and search for various hashtag and see how many posts that each hashtag has. Now, as someone who has a smaller account, you're going to want to look for hashtags that are maybe under 50,000 or up to 200,000. But I wouldn't go over 200,000 because you're probably not going to rank since you are a smaller account.

My fourth tip is to utilize Instagram Stories every single day of the week, or at least every single day of your work week. Instagram Stories actually populate above the feed. So there are those little circles that are above your individual feed and every time you post a new story, it actually moves you to the front. So when you're posting stories regularly throughout the day, you're way more likely to stay on top of your ideal client's feed and they're going to be way more likely to watch your stories. Now, you want to be strategic with your stories. Instagram Stories is a fantastic way to educate and provide value to your ideal clients. So if you want to get inspired and see the opportunity for the types of Instagram stories that you can post, go ahead to Instagram and follow my account and tune into some of my stories to see how I do it.

My last tip is to optimize your Instagram bio so that when people come to your page, they know exactly what that page is about. So it really grinds my gears when I see health coaches out there posting their certifications, their interests. But there's actually nothing in that bio that tells me what is this page actually about. You only have five seconds to grab this person's attention and make them want to follow your account. So you need to be very clear about who the page is for and what they can expect to get from following the page. If you want to dive a little bit deeper into this and you want to know how to optimize your Instagram bio like a boss, make sure to grab my Instagram Bio Cheat Sheet.

All right, friends, now go grow that Instagram account and fire that robot!

SEO for Health Coaches with Stephanie Fiteni



What on Earth is SEO, why do we need it, and how can it help us get more money? Our guest today is Stephanie Fiteni, a traffic growth specialist and helps clients get leads and book discovery calls in their sleep. Um yes please! In this episode of the 360 Health Biz Podcast, Stephanie shares her knowledge on SEO and we dive into search engine optimization for health coaches, particularly looking at SEO for blog posts, SEO tips for website, SEO practices, local SEO and how to use keywords to grow your health coaching business.
 SEO stands for Search Engine Optimization, which basically means it is how you are ranked in Google so people can find you. Ultimately it’s making little tweaks to our website and our copywriting to ensure we have keywords that people are searching for. SEO also includes social media!
 Here is what we nerd out on in this episode:
 - what is SEO and how to use it
 - what is a sales funnel
 - what are keywords and where do we put them
 - local SEO vs SEO (there’s a difference!)
 - SEO for social media
 - YouTube as a search engine
 - content auditing 

We have many mind blowing moments in this episode so grab a pen to take notes for all the ah-ha moments you’re about to have!

Stephanie is a content marketing strategist and blog coach. She helps Coaches, Consultants and B2B companies up-level their blogs and websites so they can grow their business with less effort. She turns her clients’ traffic-less blogs into lead-generation engines by helping them plan their content, research their keywords and create content and funnels that will rank and convert. She is a traffic growth specialist and helps clients get leads and book discovery calls in their sleep. Stephanie coaches clients on a 1:1 basis, sells online courses and can be booked to design strategies or speak/train live.
Get Stephanie's FREEBIE of 10 Steps to More Leads:

Tools Mentioned:
Ubersuggest –
SEO Powersuite -
Mongoose -
WordPress plugin: Nelio -
Yoast -

Say hi on social: 
Kendra Perry Instagram:
Christine Hansen Instagram:

Connect with Stephanie:


Christine: Hello everyone, and welcome to this new episode of the 360 Health Biz podcast where we are today with me, myself and I, Christine Hansen and my absolutely stunning, beautiful, funny and adorable co-hostess with the mostess, Kendra Perry. And-

Kendra: Hello.

Christine: Yes. [inaudible 00:00:21] So, we are super excited about this episode today. It's going to blow your mind as we have in the past, and we have proof, people. So, we have proof, which we're going to brag about in a second, and we have a lovely person who left us a review that Kendra's going to read to us. And if you want a shout-out just like they do right now then please head over to iTunes and leave us a five star review with lots of love. We totally appreciate it. So, listen to what this gorgeous, glamorous person had to say.

Kendra: Yeah, so we have a really awesome review from One-butterfly-one. I think it might be a she but it could be a he, so they say, "Kendra and Christine are incredible." Thank you.

Christine: Aw.

Kendra: "The podcast more and more, it's not only fun, but it provides actionable advice tools, tips that actually work, and I've been seeing amazing results by listening to these cool gals and having a laugh along with them as I learn ways to keep moving the needle forward in my business. Thank you ladies, you rock." Well, we think you rock, One-butterfly-one.

Christine: Yeah. That's amazing-

Kendra: You are.

Christine: ... That is such a good review. I think we're super happy. Honestly it makes us feel like, "Okay, I think we're doing good." Right?

Kendra: I think so. Kind of rubs our egos in the right way. So we dig it. Thank you.

Christine: Totally, because our egos are so tiny, you know? But seriously, you rock. Thank you so much, we appreciate it so, so, so much. So please don't think that we are fine if you don't leave us a review. We are not, and we really do want one. So please head over to iTunes and do that over there.

Christine: Now, today we are tackling a subject that Kendra and I are still kind of baffled about, I would say. That both of us, I'm absolutely certain have tried at one point or another to get into it, and I think both of us probably dropped it as well.

Kendra: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Christine: So today we have someone who is going to be able to explain it to us in a way that we understand, because I think one of the reasons why we dropped it is that it's very often explained in a very tech, dry, my math teacher is not very fascinating kind of way. So, today we have Stephanie Fiteni with us, and Stephanie is a content marketing strategist and blog coach. So listen carefully, you should all have a blog by the way. She helps coaches consultants and B to B companies up-level their blogs and websites so they can grow their business with less effort, and who doesn't want to do that?

Kendra: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Christine: She turns her clients' traffic-less blogs, sad, sad, into lead generation engines by helping them plan their content, research their keywords and create content and funnels that will rank and convert, sexy, sexy. She is a traffic growth specialist and helps clients get leads and book discovery calls in their sleep. Oh, Stephanie, how I do love that sentence. Stephanie coaches clients on a one-on-one basis, so that's online courses, and she can be booked to design strategies or speak and train live. So I am super, super excited to have you here, and we are going to get right into it, I guess. So, welcome Stephanie.

Stephanie: Wow, thank you for a lovely introduction. Wow.

Christine: Well, you wrote it!

Stephanie: I'm really happy to be here.

Christine: So, we are here because both of us we are really happy to have you, because both of us have had this word SEO come up and I was super embarrassed because I forgot what it meant. But it is Search Engine Optimization everyone. I do remember. But it's this thing that I think everyone has come across as an entrepreneur, and it's like next to your finances probably one of the things that you really just want to ignore. But I do think it can be a game changer in your business. So can you, first of all, just tell us what on Earth is SEO, why do we need it, and how can it help us get more money, which we love?

Stephanie: Right. So, SEO, I'm happy you said it correctly because actually a lot of people the first time call it CEO.

Christine: [inaudible 00:04:36] only me.

Stephanie: Yes, I have a lot of clients that keep that. They just can't drop the CEO. It doesn't matter what you call it, SEO is ultimately those little tweaks we do to our websites, to the copy on our sites, and to everything that we do. It also includes social media, by the way. Everything we do, needs to be optimized for the keywords so that people know, Google knows more than anything, what we're about.

Stephanie: So in reality, Search Engine Optimization is about organizing your website, and optimizing your content. Now when I say optimizing, okay, what that means is simply putting your keywords in the right place. We can talk more in depth about that in just a minute.

Christine: But how does it make you money?

Stephanie: Okay, so first of all it makes you money by saving you time. So what I like to do is, maybe my approach is a little bit different to other SEO people because they tend to only focus on the traffic. What I like to do is, I like to help people refocus and make the most of their content.

Stephanie: So we're going to create a blog post and the aim of that, is that it ranks in the first place in search in engines I would also reformat that blog post to use it in the short-term, to generate leads as well. And of course it would also generate leads on our website by having a funnel. Now I don't know if you've talked about funnels before in your podcast?

Christine: We kind of have, but we haven't had an episode on it. Kendra, we need to get on that.

Kendra: Yeah I think that would be a good episode to talk about. I think the word funnel, in general, when I started, I didn't even know what funnel meant. I was like, what do you mean a funnel? Like something you put milk through, to get it into a different glass? Like what is that?

Christine: Yes Kendra, that's it!

Stephanie: Well that's the shape, that's the basic shape. If you Google it, yeah, that's what you'll find.

Stephanie: Well let's explain what a funnel is. So in order to build your business, especially if you're an online business, but not just if you're an online business, even if you're a coach that works face to face, keeping in touch with people through your email list of importance, so what the funnel does is basically you have these tools on your website, that grow your email list. So you would attract them to your website with a blog post and then you would offer them something to entice them to jump on your list.

Christine: Yes.

Stephanie: Now, it can be a simple you know, join our list to receive more content like this. You know that's the simplest kind of one you can have. Maybe a more complex funnel would be, you have a freebie, or a PDF that gives for value about the same topic that you've just been reading about, and then they go on your list, and because you know what they've downloaded, you know exactly what they're interested in. So then you can follow that up. There are some pretty smart tools out there that can just send a series of emails automatically, once somebody's on your list.

Stephanie: And I think for coaches, one of the most important things, is that you don't actually need to wait weeks or months, before you ask people to jump on a call with you. You can actually do it in the first three or four emails and very often there will be a percentage of people that are interested in talking to you. So you've made money.

Christine: Exactly, and just as an example, my funnel is one email. That's it, because I'm super lazy. I literally, I don't have anything specific. I have one opt in and one email that says, hello and then book a call, and that's it.

Stephanie: [crosstalk 00:08:46] be enough and then it's just a matter of getting more eyeballs on that website.

Christine: So tell me a little, so you said keywords. There's two things that I'm interested in, so keywords, what the hell are keywords? How many do I need to use, and I know that I have these used SEO thing, and it has me to use different keywords, and I'm like well, I'm about sleep, can I use sleep every time? Is that a mistake? What the hell am I supposed to use, and then you said social media, and I'm like, wait, how? So tell me more.

Stephanie: Okay, so first of all, those keywords we said, I think about 30% of my clients are actually from the health industry. Health coaches to be precise. There's a very good reason for that because keywords are really tough, in the health and wellness industry.

Christine: Yay!

Stephanie: I would say, they're not difficult to [inaudible 00:09:45], they're difficult to find.

Christine: Right.

Stephanie: Because let's say you cure migraines. So let's say I've got a migraine, and I go onto Google, and I'm going to type in "best migraine medication". So If I'm looking for best migraine medication, and I obviously have a migraine, so I am the target audience right? Now, what tends to happen is that, a lot of wellness coaches would cure migraine, but not my medication. So let's say, some people do it with meditation even, some people do it with alternative, natural therapies. So, what you need to do with SEO in that case, you need to catch the traffic that is looking for the most basic, fastest solution to a problem, because you know the doctors already, and then educate them into buying what you're selling.

Christine: Right.

Stephanie: And I think that's kind of the keyword to wellness coaches. The problem is, you tend to optimize for the outcome or for what you're selling.

Christine: Hang on, I think I have a light bulb moment!

Stephanie: So for me, like sleeping pills, although that is what I don't advocate, would for example, be a great keyword because people are looking for that.

Kendra: Oh my gosh! I'm having a light bulb moment too!

Christine: That's just like wrong! Seriously, I think we did it all wrong, like most of it.

Kendra: That's my favorite type of content, I call it Trojan horse content because what you're doing is like you're attracting, but of course, it's not going to [inaudible 00:11:40] very highly, but you already know that they're looking for a solution now. All you're doing is educating them, and what tends to happen is online, when you search something like that, you're going to find these chemical companies, that are advertising, or they put the [inaudible 00:12:00] on line. A lot of the time, the person looking, wants something more than that, it's like they're looking for a solution. And they'd be probably happy to buy if there was a resolved problem now, but if it's a recurring problem, and a lot of wellness problems are, then you have the time to educate them. Why pills may not be the best solution for your migraine.

Christine: Yeah.

Kendra: When you're doing the research for keywords, does it matter about competition, because what I've learned about SEO, I've learned a lot about certain keywords like so many people are using them. There's like two million searches for them. So someone, who's like you know small me, like me, I might not actually rank in that.

Christine: You're not small me baby!

Stephanie: There's a couple of things to say about that. If the competition is high and there's large volume, chances are people are already banking in on it, and which means they have a lot of money coming in, and they have a lot of money to spend on SEO, which means it's not likely you'll manage to rank for it in the short-term. It doesn't mean you won't manage, but you certainly can't do it fast.

Christine: Okay.

Stephanie: So what you would need to begin with, is actually finding out a number of keywords for yourself. I like to start with the low competition ones, that have good traffic, but you can get the low hanging fruits, with keywords, like we just mentioned the ones where you know that that person Googling it, [inaudible 00:13:41], has a really big [crosstalk 00:13:52].

Kendra: And is there a tool that can [inaudible 00:13:53], help you for like-

Stephanie: Yes there are many, many, many keyword tools. I can recommend a few. It depends on how techy you are and whether you have a budget for it.

Christine: Let's use super cheap and not techy at all.

Stephanie: Well, there is one called Ubersuggest, but the problem with keyword tools is that they're very slow. This one is particularly slow, but it's free.

Kendra: And what's it called again, sorry?

Stephanie: It's called Ubersuggest, it's [crosstalk 00:14:30]. Yes I can give you the link and we can put it on.

Kendra: That would be awesome.

Stephanie: Spelt like Uber, you know the taxi? And suggest.

Kendra: Very cool.

Stephanie: But I prefer to use, there's a couple of other tools. There's the SEO PowerSuite, so you've been doing SEO for a while and you want to go deeper, you can go try that. It's like the cheapest entry level Pro Software. Especially if you also work offline, and you can work really well with local SEO, you can use a tool called Mongoose. I'm just going to look at it quickly actually because I need to double check the name. It's called Mongoose. The company that makes it, is called Mongoose and there's all these different tools. This is the keyword tool.

Kendra: Yeah.

Stephanie: Unfortunately it's not free, it's about $40 a month. I can forward you the link to the exact tool because there are a few.

Kendra: Yeah, we'll add all these into the show notes, for all you listeners out there.

Stephanie: But basically what you want is, you want to see three things, in your keyword results when you search keywords. You want to see more suggestions because it's like really important that you keep growing your keyword list. You want to see the competition and you also what to see the Pay-Per-Click price.

Kendra: Oh okay.

Stephanie: And this is something a lot of people use to create online ads. So you know they want to advertise in Google, it will tell me how much it's going to cost me to advertise for that keyword. But for organic search, that gives you a very good idea of how much money that keyword is making. And of course, you're not going to pay for it because you're going organic. So if you actually choose the keywords that have a high Pay-Per-Click value, they will tend to turn to clients more easily.

Christine: Oh really?

Kendra: So a high Pay-Per-Click value is better than a low Pay-Per-Click value. I feel like I had that totally flipped.

Christine: Me too completely. I was just going to say, oh okay so you want to get the cheaper ones because those are the ones that nobody wants and those are easy [crosstalk 00:16:50]

Stephanie: And that's true if what you're planning to spend on ads, that makes such good sense but since you're going organic, you don't.

Kendra: Okay, got it.

Christine: There was another interesting thing that you said, and that was local, like local SEO. So we do have people, who have a practice. So how is their SEO different from you know people I can [inaudible 00:17:17] for example, who only work in the online space or mainly?

Stephanie: It's easier, much easier. Google is really on your side when it comes to that. So you can get yourself a Google business page, and in your Google business page, you can put everything. So you put your location on the map, you can put all your keywords and you know you can list all your services, your opening hours. If you have different locations, [inaudible 00:17:48] different locations too. And once you've done that, what Google will do is, they will actually, I actually have one, but I can't spot it right now. They will send you an envelope, with a nice Google logo on it.

Christine: I have received that.

Stephanie: That's right, you just put your pin in to confirm that the address is yours, and then from then on, you will appear in searches on the side, as a suggestion, especially when people are searching for something similar to what you do, within your catchment area. It's really good for walk-in traffic.

Christine: So I have another question. You said you put your keywords in, how do I do that? Do I imagine just like typing in a list of these words that I found out? So let's say I were to only have an office here, so if I was I, I'd go into that search engine, I'd type in 'sleep', and check what comes up, and then I'd have a list and then I'd say I want these keywords that say how many? 20, 10, 5, hundred? I don't know, what would be-? And then do I just copy paste those and I'd put them in there or do I have to write a text and weave them in? How do I do that?

Stephanie: Okay, so there's no limit to how many keywords you can use, but you should use one keyword for each piece of content.

Christine: Okay.

Stephanie: We don't [inaudible 00:19:13], that's one of my pet feeds you know. A lot of people out there are saying they still show notes, and no they don't because SEO is something you need to stay in the loop with. Like there were 3000 algorithm updates only in the last 18 months. And whenever there's an algorithm update, I go out there and I test, and I see how we can use it to get better rankings or faster rankings.

Christine: You're so smart! I'm like-

Stephanie: This is the best [inaudible 00:19:54]. There are people who have maybe done an SEO course one or two years ago and they just stick to what they learned then. That's very frustrating for somebody like me because I look at the show notes, and I'm like, stop telling me they're SEO, because they're not. But anyway. So you don't a limited amount of keywords, it depends on how much content. Well let's see if you're producing content once a week, you're going to need 52 keywords for a year.

Christine: Yes.

Stephanie: But that's how it works, one keyword for each content. Now it does have to, you know not have, to have two or three categories that you can collect them in to. So you know, decide what three topics you want to optimize your website for, both have to be connected and relevant because we don't want to confuse people or Google because they tend to kind of read the stuff more in a similar way, as time goes by. So in reality, you build your site for people, you should be okay with Google.

Stephanie: You need to have these three categories and your keywords need to be collected in these three buckets, and then, this is where it gets interesting, then at this stage, when you have these three categories, you can choose your keywords [inaudible 00:21:21] category. It can be one of these really highly competitive keywords that have a lot of traffic.

Stephanie: Over time, you will manage to rank for that, but that is sort of based on the keyword cluster or the content cluster you're going to create for that particular keyword over time. So it's about sort of [intralinking 00:21:43] and you know, and all of that.

Christine: Okay, so I still don't ... I'm still confused, less but I have this keyword, where do I put it? Does that just mean I use it once in the text? Do I have to go in the back end of my blog and put it into, I don't know, a hashtag, what do I do with the word? Is it enough to just put that in there?

Stephanie: The first thing you need to do, has just been actually proven recently. [inaudible 00:22:20] kind of, he ran a survey, with all the SEO people, who work professionally in SEO, and he basically asked them the questions about what Google says works.

Christine: Okay.

Stephanie: Verify what SEO people are actually seeing that works. And the one thing that you will hear contradictions about what has been proven to definitely be true, is that you need your keyword in the title.

Christine: Okay, good.

Stephanie: That's definitely step number one. I get it's a little bit difficult to explain without actually showing you because it's a science in reality, but I'll break it down to just give you a few pointers. So you definitely need is in your first paragraph.

Christine: Good.

Stephanie: So definitely needs to go in the beginning of your article and it does have, if you have subtitles. You know if you have five steps to make something happen, or sometimes you can even have a story and sort of draw out subtitles.

Christine: Right. And it would-

Stephanie: Sorry?

Christine: And it would be enough to just go into your blog and use that funk, like kind of highlight it and create it as a subtitle. It would recognize that right?

Stephanie: Yes, now if you have subtitles, it's good to have three or four because your keyword shouldn't go in all of them because let's say, Google can kind of break down language naturally and if I'm talking to you about something, I would maybe start off, let's say by talking about, I don't know, migraine medication. I might call it migraine medication the first time, second time, but the as we go along the conversation, I'm probably going to start using other words like, drugs or [inaudible 00:24:16] or I might use the word headache instead of migraine, even though they're not the same thing.

Stephanie: We naturally start mixing it in, so as you go further down the article, you use less of the same keyword, and more kind of synonyms.

Christine: Wait! My mind is blown. I love this so much, it geeks me out like ... [inaudible 00:24:38], it turns me on, I love it, it's okay but I think I had a [inaudible 00:24:44] once, that did it for me, that kind of told me [inaudible 00:24:48] and now and then, I don't remember when it was, I have so much stuff, but yeah, it makes total sense. It really makes sense.

Stephanie: There are tools out there that really do tell you that as you log on, tell you you don't have enough keywords, you have too much and stuff like that, but from my experience it takes you really long to finish [inaudible 00:25:07].

Kendra: I feel like with Yoast, you're trying to get the green smiley face. I only ever get like the orange, flat line mouth, where it's like mm. It's okay, but it's not good and I'm like, I don't know how to get that smiley face.

Stephanie: Indeed, indeed, perhaps that's why it's good to know what works, so I'll tell you what I do.

Kendra: Okay.

Stephanie: I of course, I also have an agency with my husband, so I've been taking care of the content team there, and I don't participate so much in the execution of the work, but I still participate in the strategy, I mean the evaluation. So it does have me sort of keep my finger on the pulse as to what's working and what isn't. And it's good to keep track of what works, and sort of use it as a step by step sort of guideline or a [inaudible 00:26:09].

Stephanie: So because these things change over time, we have internal guidelines in the agency, and which I also share of course, with my clients. But I update them more or less every two to three months, so there isn't a formula that's always going to work.

Christine: Yeah agreed, and I just found my software, and it's called, it used to be called Webtext, but it's called TextMetrics, and it would just basically tell you, okay enter highlight here, enter header here, and you would give it the first keyword, and it would give you synonyms and things like that, and it would tell you how to optimize it. It would take a little bit more time, but I'm just actually realizing that page scores is like 94 and stuff. That one of my most popular blogs ever, I actually did with this thing. So I probably should have stuck with it. Oops but well, I use my text now, like it's basically the transcript of what I do and video so we probably have to tweak it a bit, but I am super fascinated.

Kendra: I have a quick question, so in regards to our podcast show notes, because we were briefly talking about show notes there, we just take the transcript for our episode and upload it into the blog post. Is that good or is that bad or should we actually have our podcast manager summarize the episode and just do the main points? What do you think would be better from an SEO perspective?

Stephanie: What I recommend is to actually do both. So it's good to have your transcript page, with your podcast in it, and the reason is that, voice searches on the rise, and in fact you have your podcast, and you have your subtext and what's happening is that Google has in the last I believe, I think it's been around for about not even six weeks. So what I've started doing is, Google actually goes in the podcast and transcribes it and puts it in the searchable code of your website, so Alexa and Google Home can find it.

Kendra: Cool.

Stephanie: But the two [inaudible 00:28:31] automatic one, is really bad so far compared to transcription tools like and if the transcription's still quite bad, what does one improve?

Stephanie: So it does help to have your own transcription, because Google is going to start using that more and more now, but only to serve your audio.

Kendra: Okay, right.

Stephanie: So if you're trying to rank, in order to grow your list, and to serve your freebie and to get them into your super fast funnel, [crosstalk 00:29:03]. So make a good freebie, [inaudible 00:29:08].

Christine: It was a great freebie, on our podcast homepage, right,, there's an awesome freebie on there. And our followers, one email.

Kendra: One email.

Stephanie: See what I mean? That's all you need. All you need to do is ask.

Stephanie: Great, what you can do then is, you can get your transcription and turn it into an interesting blog post and that gives you, you know, just gets the ... And probably add more information. See this is something I do with my lives. So, I do lives and of course people like to absorb things on video, but they also read, and we think people don't read, but when you see people walking down the street like this, they're reading, they're not watching video and walking. It's a very likely [inaudible 00:30:02].

Stephanie: People do read, so what we need to do is make sure that they stay on the page. So to have something that either a specialist or something somebody said on the podcast, and then always add more information. I always do this. There'll always be something that I can't expand on, like for instance, we talked about tools today.

Kendra: Yeah.

Stephanie: We talked about ones that, I don't know, if you broke that down-

Kendra: I know I keep bringing that up.

Christine: She's not letting go.

Stephanie: I do have a one step for her though, it's a little more complex than that, but if you actually put more information there, and people have a reason to go to your website, then you have the opportunity to serve them your freebie or to get them to jump on your newsletter. So it's one of those things and if people just watch the podcast and they're just happy to just do that, it's fine. If they want to take it further and go deeper, then you take them to a different page.

Kendra: True.

Stephanie: Yes.

Christine: Sorry, I needed to sneeze. Now that is a very good point, that's a super great point actually. So one more question that I have is, for me was, SEO was mainly on a blog and then you can add hashtags. I know that Tamara, bless her, I love her so much, she just looks at what I've been talking about and then she includes often the same hashtags and then some that are related. She makes them up to what I was just talking about. Is that worth it? Should you just add one hashtag then? Is it working at all?

Stephanie: Well, first of all on blogs, we call them tags, not hashtags.

Christine: Sorry.

Stephanie: I'm just making sure we're talking about the same thing.

Christine: Okay.

Stephanie: Because if you use the hashtag then you put it on social media, but on the website, you just put a normal tag because if you put the hash in front, and some people do that, then it's not a word, kind of thing.

Christine: Interesting. Got to check. Okay.

Stephanie: I'm pretty sure if you just put [inaudible 00:32:27] normally so, it's just this tag, and you put it in and the words just does whatever it does with the tags. It does help to have one or sometimes two, but I'll tell you a very good place to store them actually. The best place to store it is on Google itself. So you know if you go in to Google and you type, I don't know, can't sleep,

Christine: For example.

Stephanie: That's right, you're going to find a lot of, you get your ads on the top and you get your results, and at the very bottom, you scroll down, you'll see that it gives you related searches. And those are the topics that Google has already connected you to that particular keyword. So if we give Google that connection, it's going to find it easier to understand that you're, you're [inaudible 00:33:20], if so you could call it.

Kendra: Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, so I'm looking at this right now on Google and so I'm seeing it right at the bottom, searches related to can't sleep. And then it has, I'm tired but I can't sleep, things to do when you can't sleep, can't sleep anxiety, can't sleep thinking too much. And then it actually tells me, and it's probably because I have some plugin on here, but it tells me the cost per click.

Christine: Oh it does!

Kendra: Yeah, I think I have keywords everywhere on here, maybe, but it tells me the cost per click, and I'm looking at how to sleep fast in five minutes and that's 29000 per month. So that's if I'm doing organic traffic, maybe I should use that as a keyword? Is that kind of, am I thinking about this properly? This is amazing.

Stephanie: It sounds like a good keyword. You also need to check your competition.

Kendra: Right. How do I do that?

Stephanie: Using the keyword tools.

Kendra: Okay. And I don't want too much competition, so I want to hide price tag but I don't want to have too much competition, ideally.

Stephanie: What you want to do [inaudible 00:34:23] hide price tag, it doesn't mean [inaudible 00:34:30] keyword, but starting with [inaudible 00:34:35] helps because what happens is, remember we spoke about the categories that we have. We have one keyword at the top, which is high competition and high return probably. What we do is and you have your keywords within that cluster, in that category, that ideally are low competition. And what we want to do is, we want to rank those because they will push the rank for the whole keyword cluster and help you add the top keyword in the long-term.

Christine: Got it. Yeah, so you have this little army of low ranking keywords, pushing your high ranking keywords amongst the competitors who through a lot of money at it, right? And you come from the underground, as a renegade thing, I like that. I can live with that. I can work with that.

Kendra: I have another question too, so I'm looking at these searches related to can't sleep, and there's one that says, what to do when you can't sleep and are bored, and it says zero per month, and then zero dollars. So when it says zero, does that mean that people aren't actually searching for that or should I ignore that, or is that good?

Stephanie: If it says zero, it depends obviously if your tool is referring to the price, because it could be just, if it's a greater price, then it might still be a good keyword, if it has traffic and low competition. It [inaudible 00:36:01] necessarily have Pay-Per-Click, because if it doesn't have Pay-Per-Click, all it means is that, there isn't a product or service that it very closely connected to it.

Kendra: Right.

Stephanie: But it doesn't mean there's no interest. So you know you could get a lot of traffic that jumps on your list from that, even though maybe they're not ready to buy a product. A lot of these keywords are actually selling products that you can just click and buy.

Kendra: Right, interesting.

Christine: I didn't know which video to do today, I'm going to do the video about what to do when you can't sleep and you're bored. [inaudible 00:36:36] figure out if this is going to bring in gazillions of billions.

Kendra: Well, it's a good topic, because when I can't sleep, I'm pretty fucking bored.

Christine: Exactly, and you also find that for a lot of people, it's physical and in that case, I could actually make something smart out of it.

Stephanie: That's a good idea. That's really how I became programmer, through insomnia. I got like my first non dial-up connection, and there were other people awake on the other side of the planet, and I was like yay!

Christine: No Stephanie, that's not how you're supposed to do it.

Stephanie: This was like two decades ago.

Christine: So we've got the blog covered. I understand. I understand how to structure it. I know what keywords to prepare for for next year. Got it, I'm ready. Now you also said that you can use it for social media. So, Kendra and I and people who've been listening hopefully to our first or second episode, have the same structure of where we use one piece of content and then, similar to you, what you do, we do a live, we'll video and then we do a transcript that we form into a blog post and we use it on podcast, audio, we use it on our Instagram, we use snippets for Facebook, for Twitter and so forth and Pinterest, so those are, we basically go out and use YouTube and use all our social media platforms with this piece of content. So how do I do what we've just discussed for the blog, for other social media platforms? It seems obvious to me that for something like Twitter, I literally use the hashtag, how would I implement this for YouTube or Instagram or Facebook? Is it the hashtag thing or is it just embedded in the content?

Stephanie: So, probably the most important one would be YouTube. Now, with YouTube there's actually a lot of SEO experts will tell you to [inaudible 00:38:50] your work in the very beginning. Because YouTube is great because when you change something, you can see instant changes. So if you want to test a keyword or see how a video is ranking, you know Google kind of copies the internet and indexes it and you know it's not live, it takes a long time to work through the date, but YouTube is live. So you can see the changes really quick.

Christine: Very cool.

Stephanie: On the other hand, I have also heard, I'm not a YouTube expert but, I do follow a lot of SEO people so, I hear a lot about YouTube. And after you publish a video and you change the title, apparently YouTube does not change it in its database, so you have to make sure you publish it with the right title, right away.

Christine: Okay.

Stephanie: So that's definitely something I would, I've been cautioned to do.

Christine: Don't fuck up the title. Got it!

Stephanie: No, keywords, you know so you'll see a lot, including on my channel where you have the keyword, like you know, I don't know, blog traffic and then how do I grow my traffic? So that's because the keyword works better in the beginning and you can't always make sensible sentence out of it.

Christine: I love that! That's hilarious, you just take your keywords, dinner and then a subtitle. Yeah. Works.

Kendra: I love it and I love YouTube. YouTube has actually worked really well for my business. I realized the power of it when this one video, that had really low production value, but the content is good, got over, I think I have almost 40000 views on it and like, pretty much when I was doing primarily health coaching, all my clients came to me through that one video. And I was just like, okay there's something to this. And that video is three years old and people are still contacting me for it, even though I don't really work in that space anymore, so I think it can work really well for you, but yeah, I think it's a really good point that YouTube is also a search engine, and I like that it works so quickly and I didn't realize that Google took so much longer but yeah, with YouTube, if you can get a video working for you, it can bring people into your business for years.

Christine: Great! And it's random, like last time someone found me because I did a review in partnership with Timeshifter on their app for Jet Lag with the Summit 2 watch from Montblanc, and he was like, I was looking for reviews, and I found this YouTube Video, and I was like, this lady has a lot of time, and then I found an article, and I was like, I know this lady! And it was basically my blog post, and he was like, what is this lady actually doing? And he wrote me an email, to tell me how cool he found my website and all of that kind of stuff. It's just so cute, and it's just to show you have YouTube, all of these things are working together, It's mind boggling to me.

Christine: So don't fuck up the headline. What else can you do?

Stephanie: Well you need to leave quite a long description ideally and in YouTube, a long description using your keywords again, optimize it, pepper it. And also, try not to make it a direct transcript of the video.

Christine: Got it.

Stephanie: I see lots of people do that and I don't think it ... it doesn't come across as what a description should be.

Christine: Got it, yeah.

Stephanie: And another thing that really helps is playlists. So you can add your reviews to playlists, to your own, and you can also have playlists where you have your own reviews and other people's. So if you want to appear next to Jodie Spencer's videos, then you might create a [crosstalk 00:42:28], a playlist with his keywords. Now it's not necessarily going to happen quick because in order to be the featured video, it does help to sort of hint with playlists, as to what kind of content you want to be served for but in order to be served as a featured video or a suggested video, you need to have that kind of, like you mentioned Kendra, you know your video was doing really well, and when they see that it's kind of doing really well in the beginning, then they kind of help it, because it starts being suggested and featured, so it keeps ranking.

Stephanie: I also find that I've got like, I don't really use YouTube much, I use it mostly to share videos with clients and sort of thing, but I have one video that ranks in Google, and it's got thousands of views. And people do get in touch with me although, again, it's about a tool that coaches use, which is Zoom, but it's not specifically about what I do.

Kendra: Right.

Stephanie: It can be very powerful.

Kendra: Yeah, agreed. So I want to ask if you think this is a good strategy, because this is what I do with my YouTube videos, I usually pick like 10 tags. I use an app, or a plugin called TubeBuddy, which helps me search and determine, which are like, it gives a word a weighting. Like I'll type in like fatigue for women, or something like that, and it will tell me, fair, good, like is that a good option for keyword, so I'll do like 10 tags and then what I'll do is I'll just create a description, using each tag.

Kendra: So my description sounds really robotic, because I'm just using the tags, but I get every single tag in the description, and I feel like nobody really reads it anyways. Do you think that's a good strategy?

Stephanie: It sounds like a good strategy. I can understand, it sounds a little bit humorous, but yes, there are a lot of tools out there. There's keyword research tools that you can use specifically for YouTube.

Kendra: Yip.

Stephanie: Sounds like a good one. Yes, you can definitely use more than one tag in YouTube, so you don't have the one keyword rule in YouTube.

Kendra: Okay, got it.

Christine: I'm going to go and read Kendra's descriptions now, just to [crosstalk 00:44:59]. I still read descriptions actually. I'm one of the weirdos who watches the YouTube videos and then clicks, first of all to see when the date was, and then I'm reading the description. I'm such a weirdo.

Kendra: That's amazing.

Christine: Okay so we have blog post and then our best friend, Google. We have YouTube. We discussed show notes for podcasts. Well, Twitter I guess a little bit with hashtags. Any of the other social media platforms that you know are really great, like Pinterest or something like that? Pinterest is like this underdog thing. I find that some people are-

Kendra: So people are crushing it on Pinterest.

Christine: Crushing it on there. So is that something you know about?

Stephanie: Yes well, Pinterest, I'm certainly no expert. If I had to start doing Pinterest, I'd probably hire and expert, but I'll send you what I know about Pinterest. So, I think the strength of Pinterest is that it's 90% women. And 80% of the [inaudible 00:46:08] on the planet, are made by women, so if you're selling something, you need to be there. If you're selling something, especially that appeals to women like fashion, recipes, I'm pretty sure you both do Pinterest on a personal level, you know it's all [inaudible 00:46:28] and that sort of thing.

Christine: I might have a couple of vision boards on there.

Stephanie: So you know, we know we use it so we know how it can be effective. I do hear though that there are certain tools that I'm not aware of like you can create group boards, and you know, you can sort of get virality by having a kind of exchange of pins with other people, so that's the stuff I don't know much about, but it is also a search engine. People search in it.

Christine: Yes, agreed. I dabbled around with it like a year ago and I gained traction really quickly just by creating a specific board for sleep and sleep ideas, or best of sleep on Pinterest, something like that. And then I just had too much going on and I focused on it and I think you're right. I'm trying to squeeze Tamara to do it. I think I probably need to hire someone particularly to do it because I think it's a total gold mine we should explore Kendra.

Kendra: You know, especially because I think our audience is a lot of women as health coaches, Pinterest might be a good option for us to-

Christine: And you can get them with recipes, like sleep food or hormone food or mineral food or whatever. For me Pinterest is recipes, wedding dresses and like home décor and fashion probably, and holidays and vision boards.

Stephanie: When you think of wellness, you can probably go across so many categories that are already there. And you have a foot in each one and you're doing okay.

Christine: Amazing. Oh this is giving me hope that I can actually do this.

Stephanie: Yes you can get overwhelmed quite quickly but I do have a solution for overwhelm actually, and I'll give away a little trick that I use, and you can call it laziness.

Christine: I'm a big fan of laziness, I mean it's my middle name, Christine Lazy Hansen.

Kendra: Yes, I agree.

Stephanie: Or we could call it prioritizing, you know [inaudible 00:48:41] priority.

Stephanie: So the core, I believe the core of any online marketing strategy should be to build the traffic in the long-term and it depends what you're selling and what keywords you're using because I have clients that hit the first page of Google, in three weeks.

Christine: Wow! So like on the first page, if you look for sleep expert, and especially sleep [inaudible 00:49:08] adults, I'm number uno.

Stephanie: There you go. So you know, it can be easy, or it can be hard, depending on what you choose, but this is something you can learn quite easily. The good thing is that once you have that content, even if you're in an industry, maybe you haven't chosen fantastic keywords, or you're in an industry that's really competitive, you know that in six, eight months, maybe a year, you should still be seeing results. While you wait for that to happen, you can reuse the stuff that you're writing, for your social media so that you can get leads right away.

Christine: I have a question! So, as everyone, I am having trouble finding new content ideas because I wrote a blog post about pretty much everything that I can think of, and is it a good idea, because I know that Google want to be fresh and everything, so should I for example, write a completely new blog post, let's say parasites and sleep, do I write a completely new blog post, do I edit my old blog post, do I keep my old blog post or do I delete it and I have a new version of it? Any ideas there?

Stephanie: Okay so it depends on how much of it you're going to change. If you're just going to go in and maybe you weren't optimizing your blog post at the time, and you find a keyword for it and optimize it now, that really helps, but you're not going to change too much. Let's say you're going to change 20% of it.

Christine: Okay.

Stephanie: So, that Google sees as a positive thing, because it means that you're keeping your old content fresh, so you get [inaudible 00:50:52] for that.

Christine: Got it. Oh that's really interesting. Okay, so that would be better than deleting it and writing a completely new post.

Stephanie: It depends on how much of the information in its [inaudible 00:51:05], because if you need to change about 60% of it, then Google's still going to see it as a new post.

Christine: Okay.

Stephanie: So you might as well write it from scratch, optimize it properly, maybe try different title if it wasn't ranking. It might help you to go completely fresh if you're going to change, because Google will still see it as a new page.

Christine: Okay, okay I got it. Food for thought. I've been keeping them because I was just like, who on earth is going to go through all my blog posts and read all of them, nobody. So I just kept them for now, but I know that Google gets also upset, if you have old stuff that you don't update, so I was like, do I upset Google by keeping my old stuff and not doing anything with it, I'm not sure. Interesting.

Stephanie: Well it all depends, you need to do a content audit. So have a look at all your blog posts and see how well connected they are to each other in terms of topics, and how well organized they are on your side.

Christine: Not at all, most likely.

Stephanie: That's the first thing you need to do. If you see that once you've categorized everything, there are some posts that are obviously not fitting anywhere and they're not really so connected to what you do, it's better if you unpublish those.

Christine: Okay, got it. It's all in my 2020 bucket for now, but I think have an idea.

Christine: Good. Super helpful!

Stephanie: So, there is one trick that I wanted to share with you. Well connected to the question about social media before, because I think there's one little powerful thing that a lot of people don't know about, and you know Facebook, LinkedIn, all the social media platforms, they're the highest ranking platforms on the planet. So they have a very high authority, which means that if you get links back from them, they're going to count. They're going to count to give you authority and these days, search engines also read how much engagement you get when you post on social media, so it's definitely a plus.

Stephanie: Now what can really help as well is, when you're linking something back to a particular page or to your website, if you're using the keyword that you used in that particular page, in the text that's actually linking back, then it's going to have Google understand what you're about even more.

Christine: Right.

Stephanie: Because of course it's other people talking about you.

Christine: Right, got it!

Stephanie: Google of course, like anybody, you believe what other people say about themselves. Google believes what other people say about you, more than what you say about yourself basically.

Christine: Interesting.

Stephanie: Which is a very human thing to do.

Christine: Yeah, totally. Makes sense.

Stephanie: So everything that gets pushed out there, just make sure it's got the right keyword, or the right topic, and you know, you don't have a post that's talking about something really like, I don't know, we don't sell medication. Don't talk about it and then link it back to your site.

Christine: Right, yeah. This is fascinating, like tomorrow's to do list has just grown! But I think this is so helpful because we throw a lot of things out there and now actually I think I'm going to stop and think for a second, before I do [inaudible 00:54:54].

Stephanie: There's a very good tool, that allows me to do all of this from my website. So I actually don't go anywhere, to social media, I don't go to any tools to schedule posts. I just do it all from my WordPress site. I use a plugin called Nelio. It's N-E-L-I-O.

Christine: Okay.

Stephanie: What it does is, once you've finished writing your blog post, and you've put in all your images, you've optimized it in Yoast, it's got a very nice button called, Auto-fill my Social Media.

Christine: I do like that.

Stephanie: And what it does is, say I've connected it to all my social media. It doesn't work with Instagram, because most automatic tools don't because they're always disconnecting, but it works with everything else. It's got a Pinterest option as well, which I'm waiting to use. I haven't used it yet. And what it does is that you can can go in the page, you've got the post at the bottom, and if you want to add additional images for Facebook, or maybe you want to change your Pinterest picture, or you want to make maybe, I make usually my Facebook posts, I make them much longer. So you can go in an edit what it's done automatically, and then once you've scheduled your posts say to go out on Wednesday morning, a few minutes later, everything will be pushed out to social media.

Christine: Yeah, I'm using something similar called Missinglettr, that's what I use. So it just, [inaudible 00:56:27] and all but it's doing the same thing kind of.

Kendra: Interesting. Okay. Very cool.

Christine: That's amazing.

Stephanie: I love the fact that you can do it all in one page and you don't have to go anywhere else.

Kendra: I will check it out, and we'll put it in the show notes for sure.

Christine: We will, yip.

Christine: All right so, I think we've been blowing each other's minds for an hour. Yeah, my little brain is like wow!

Kendra: And I know Stephanie, you mentioned having a free gift for our people, 10 steps to more leads, can you tell us a little more about that and why our listeners should definitely go grab that right now?

Stephanie: Yes, so I have a freebie about how to get leads from your website and basically goes through all of the things that you need to have in place, so if there are a few things that maybe you didn't catch, like the funnel or you know, just to make sure you starting at least with everything in place. This is a good place to start.

Christine: Right, perfect. So if you're not a lazy as us, and you want to do it properly, then that might be a good idea to download that. So where do they go to download that, to get in touch with you and if they're like, okay I really want more help with that, or I just want someone to coach me on how to write my blogs more efficiently, and all of that good stuff, where do they find you?

Stephanie: They can find me on my site which is

Kendra: So spell that for us maybe because there's so many ways of spelling Stephanie and Fiteni I guess.

Stephanie: Yes, Stephanie's with a PH so it's S-T-E-P-H-A-N-I-E and Fiteni is F-I-T-E-N-I.

Kendra: Perfect, so you can find Stephanie there.

Christine: Well I thought this was worthy, at least five stars on [crosstalk 00:58:19].

Stephanie: I agree, I agree.

Christine: So a good keyword here would probably be SEO for Health Coaches, you know, I'm just brainstorming, we'll implement immediately what we've learned, see.

Stephanie: [inaudible 00:58:35], we've got to check.

Christine: So thank you so much for this. Seriously this has been a lot of amazing content that you've been sharing with us here. I'm really, really thankful for this, that we were able to pick you mind this way and ruthlessly ask all our questions. So thank you so, so much!

Stephanie: Oh you're very welcome, it's been great to share the information with you and I'm really happy to be here. Thank you so much for having me and I'll definitely be watching more of your pod casts.

Christine: Yes!

Stephanie: All of them.

Kendra: All of them. Well thank you so much and guys, five start review and if you guys are on Instagram, make sure to screenshot this episode. As you're listening on your smartphone, you can mention 360 Health Biz Podcast. Let us know your take aways and we'll share your story to our stories, so we can all just help each other out. And guys we will see each other in a week, with the next awesome episode. Bye!

How to Get More Views Using IGTV (and Dominate Instagram)


Are you feeling clueless when it comes to Instagram TV or IGTV? Maybe you're wondering, "Should I use it? How can I make it work for you? Is it actually worth using?" Well I'm going to break down for you on what IGTV is and how to use it to get more views to your account.

When Instagram first released IGTV, it was a total fail, but it is a failure no more because Instagram just released some very powerful features that make it absolutely worth using. When I started using Instagram TV videos, I saw 5 to 10 times more engagement and views than any other type of content I was posting on Instagram. So it worked for me and I promise it will work for you too.

So what is IGTV? IGTV is basically Instagram's app to allow you to post longer-form video. With Instagram TV, it is a vertical video, you record it with your smartphone, so super low maintenance, super easy, and the video is between one and 10 minutes. This makes it a perfect tool for educating your ideal client because you have up to 10 minutes to do so, which is lots of time to teach your ideal clients something. In order to access the IGTV app, it is a separate app than Instagram. The two do link together, but you do need to go and download the Instagram TV app so that you can start uploading your videos.

Now, the first piece of advice I'm going to give you about IGTV, is your thumbnail really matters. The new feature that Instagram just added is, now when you post an IGTV video, it actually automatically populates into your Instagram feed. This makes it way more likely that people are going to see and find your video. But if you don't add a custom thumbnail to your video when you upload it, a random picture of your face is just going to populate into your feed. That's actually not going to tell anyone why they should actually watch that video. One important thing to keep in mind is, Instagram actually will zoom in on the center of the image. So you want to make sure your texts or whatever it is that tells your person what the video is about is restricted to the very middle of the image. You're going to have to test with this, but this is very important. It means that new followers to your feed can scroll down and see the name of the videos you've posted, which means they're going to be way more likely to go in and actually watch that video.

My next tip is keep your video short and to the point. It's really easy to ramble on, especially when you have up to 10 minutes, but I actually recommend that you try to keep your videos about five minutes or less. People don't have much attention span these days and it's going to be way more likely that they're going to watch your entire video when it is less than five minutes and it doesn't ramble on too long. Make sure to write down your points on a Post-it Note, stick it next to the top of your camera, next to your phone, so that when you look at your points, you're still looking at the camera, so that you can stay on track and properly educate your ideal client.

The next awesome thing you can do with IGTV in order to promote it and let your audience know that you've posted it, is to actually promote it in your story. You can make a quick video or a quick graphic and you can actually create a swipe up feature even if you don't have 10,000 followers. All you need to do is upload your video or your image to IGTV, and there's a little link button in the top left hand corner. Click the link, select the IGTV video that you just posted, and then let the people know in that video with a sticker that tells them to swipe up. When they swipe up, it's going to go to that IGTV video and then they can watch it.

I have one more bonus tip for you! The description when you upload your IGTV can actually contain a clickable link. So people can actually click on that description and it will take them outside of Instagram. This is really juicy, especially for those of you who don't yet have 10,000 followers. Use it strategically. Do you have a lead magnet or an awesome freebie that is related to the IGTV video that you just did? If so, link to it and make sure in the video you tell people to click the arrow in the top right corner, and that way they can click that link and get that freebie.

Happy IGTV-ing!

Engage Instagram Followers (TO CREATE RAVING FANS!)


Do you feel like your Instagram posts are falling a little flat lately? Do you feel like you create all this great content, but every time you post, you just get crickets? Tune in and watch this video, because I'm going to give you five tips on how to increase your Instagram engagement and create raving fans who want so much more from you.

If you are a health coach or any other type of online coach who wants online business and marketing tips to grow your business, make sure to subscribe to my channel and hit the bell, so you get notified every single Thursday when I post a new video. And if you're super confused as to why your Instagram followers don't seem to give a crap about all the great content you post, by the end of this video, I'm going to give you five super juicy tips to help increase the engagement of your Instagram followers. I went from having total crickets on my Instagram account to regular likes, comments, views, and even DMS, with every single piece of content I post. So if I can do it, you can do it, too.

So tip number one, first off, you need to make sure that you are posting really good, high quality content. You actually need to put some effort into it. If your content isn't good, then there's really nothing you can do to actually increase the amount that people want to engage with it. So first off, make sure you're providing very high quality content. Think of who your ideal client is and what types of things would actually help them in their healing journey, or whatever it is that they are trying to solve. So back in the day with social media and with Instagram, it actually made sense to be posting every single day or even multiple times a day. These days, quality matters way more than quantity.

So how often should you be posting to Instagram? Well, I would say you should be posting as often as you can produce high quality content. If you can do that five days a week, all the power to you. I know I can't, but if you can only post one high quality piece of content a week, then that is fine. Just make sure you're providing a really good value in the Instagram posts that you post to your feed. So for example, long form captions do much better these days. Instagram wants you to actually keep people on Instagram, so post maybe once or twice a week on Instagram. Use a long form caption and just make sure that it provides value and actually gives your ideal clients something that can help them in their journey.

Number two is that you actually have to ask your followers to engage. If you don't ask them to engage, they don't know to engage. Funny enough, people actually like to be told what to do. I mean, I hate being told what to do, but most people, they want to be told what to do. So if you are creating an Instagram story and IGTV or a post for your feed, ask your people a question. Ask them to comment, ask them to like, ask them to double tap, ask them to do something, and they might actually just do it. So every time you write a caption, make sure that you ask them questions during the caption, and at the end, you could say something like, "What is your biggest struggle with your health? Comment and let me know." If you buy into this post, if you love this post, give me a strong arm emoji. Ask them to engage. When you ask, you receive.

Number three is to use IGTV or Instagram TV. So this is Instagram's new app. It was rolled out about a year ago, and it actually allows you to post longer form videos. So video up to ten minutes. And right now, Instagram really wants to push IGTV. And for this reason, your Instagram TV videos are going to get probably five to ten times more engagement than any other piece of content that you might post on Instagram. This is the experience that I was having. My posts are getting less engagement. My stories do pretty well, but my IGTV videos are getting so much more traction. So if you're not currently utilizing IGTV, you need to start using it now. And if you guys are wondering what the heck is IGTV, and how can I optimize it, make sure to watch my video, How to Get More Views Using IGTV.

Number four is get to know the IG story feature. There's all kinds of new features that you can actually use to engage with your audience. For example, there is the ask me a question feature. There is the chat feature where you can invite, I think, 32 people into a chat to actually engage with them. You can create a poll, you can ask them to send you a DM. There are so many different stickers and emojis and GIFs that you can use on your IG stories to actually get your people to engage with you. So your homework is to go on your IG stories right now and experiment with some of those features.

Number five is to reach out and engage with your followers. So outreach is something I still do, even though I have 9,000 plus followers on my Instagram account. So anytime someone follows you, who you believe fits into that ideal client of yours, go into the DMs and send them a message, a personal message, not one of those cheesy automated replies. Those actually piss me off a little bit, so don't do that. Please don't do that. But what you can do is you can go send people a personal message or, even better, you can send them a voice message. So this is something that I love to do with any new followers who follow me if they look like they're an ideal client.

So for me, it might be a health coach or some other type of online coach, I actually send them a DM voice message and I say, "Hey, thank you for following my account. I really appreciate it. I was looking through your feed and I noticed this, or I noticed that. That's really cool. And hey, I'm wondering, what's your biggest struggle in your business? I'm creating some free content right now and I love to take inspiration from my followers." And if they get back to you, especially if they send you back a voice message, that is really high quality engagement that ranks super high in the Instagram algorithm. And what that means is they are going to be way more likely to see your stories and your posts in their feed. Because what that tells Instagram is that they like your content.

Create Great Content & Market Yourself on Instagram with Kelly Doody



You may have already noticed that we LOVE Instagram and we love nerding out about it. If you are new to Instagram or haven’t quite figured it out yet, you are really going to learn a lot from today’s episode and hopefully you get a little nerdy too.

We are have Kelly Doody with us today, the Founder & CEO of Social School to talk all about Instagram marketing for business.

Here’s what you’ll find in today’s episode:

- the 4 A’s of Marketing (the 4 P’s are so 90’s)
- what the heck are content pillars and how you MUST use them to continuously produce new content
- keep things spicy with new content (nobody likes seeing the same thing over and over again)
- aesthetic to your Instagram feed
- the difference between IGTV and Instagram stories (and why you should be using both)
- nerd out with analytics to determine which content works and which doesn’t
- as we always saying, why niching your target audience is SO important
- why social media advertising is still something you should do (and why you shouldn’t just blindly boost a post for $20)

There's no PhD in marketing (or social media for that matter). To figure out what works for you and your business in order to market yourself as the kickass health coach you are, you just have to get in there and get dirty. Marketing is all trial and error but at least with this episode, we have plenty of tips to get your started (and reduce the amount of errors).

When it comes to Instagram, we like to think of it as frontend art and backend science. The number one question you need to ask yourself when you are posting anything is: how does your post convert. And which conversion is most important to you. Do you want the vanity conversions like likes or do you want tangible conversions like clicks to your website and follows, which eventually lead to sales? This means you might have to put some money towards boosting your posts but you should take it a step further and be strategic about WHO you are boosting that post to. You may have a ton of great memes or click-bait posts but at the end of the day, does that convert to what you want to achieve? This is where the frontend art comes into play and you need to consider the aesthetic of your feed.

Tune into today’s episode and get nerdy with us! 

Kelly Doody - Founder & CEO, Social School Kelly is a journalist turned digital marketing junkie. In addition to founding Social School, a top digital marketing academy offering live and online courses and certification programs, as well as Canada's largest marketing conference series, she is the co-founder of Press + Post – an award-winning modern marketing agency with clients across North America. Nothing makes Kelly happier than training organizations big and small to master their online domain, while connecting the top digital tools and trends with the entrepreneurs and innovators who need them most. Her runner up bio is just as great… “buy me dinner and I’ll teach you the secrets to the internet”.

Get the Social School FREEBIE of social media planning tools & tip sheets:

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Kendra: Hello everyone. Kendra here, welcome to an amazing, awesome, super exciting and super nerdy episode of the 360 Health Biz Podcast. I am so excited for today's topic. We're talking about something that's kind of sexy. We're talking about Instagram, and we love Instagram and I'm super stoked because I am hanging out with my beautiful, sexy and very well dressed, I might add, co-host, Christine Hansen. I love your dress. I think you look super good. Guys you should watch our video on YouTube to see how good Christine looks today. That old thing is like...-

Kendra: We have a super awesome guest today, we have Kelly Doody, and she is going to be talking to us about how to use Instagram for business. Instagram is definitely a hot topic, we've been posting a little bit on our Podcast about Instagram and you guys are really loving it. So we want to go a little bit deeper today and show you how you can actually utilize this platform to grow your business. And just to give you a little bit more background about Kelly, Kelly is a journalist turned digital marketer with an unrelenting passion for the knowledge share community that is marketing today. I love that. In addition to leading social school, she is the co-founder of the renowned Canadian, fellow Canadian, very excited, Digital Agency Press and Post. So nothing makes Kelly happier than moving individuals and organizations toward becoming the masters of their online domain and connecting the top digital trends and tools with the entrepreneurs and innovators who need them the most. I love that bio.

Christine H.: What a bio, I'm-

Kendra: Welcome Kelly.

Christine H.: I need to open that Google doc and use it as a model for my IMT because I'm like, jeez, relentless-

Kelly Doody: You're so sweet. My other one is one line. It says, "Buy me dinner and I'll teach you the secrets to the internet."

Christine H.: Totally fine. Dinner and dessert with my [inaudible 00:01:56]. That's like sexy talk for me. I'm like, "Ooh, let's talk marketing. Let's talk Instagram turn on.

Kelly Doody: It's foreplay absolutely. A Martini and that and I'm yours. It's like, yeah, got it. Okay.

Kendra: So Kelly I'd love to know a little bit more about you, because you said you were a journalist turned marketer, so how did you sort of transition from that space to the space that you are currently in now?

Kelly Doody: Yeah. Well, I mean the short version is that I was a columnist for the Calgary Sun and then I was doing some freelance writing for a few other publications. And I suppose I saw the writing on the wall with media and I don't do well when things are going in a very flat line. And, and or that there is no evolution and kind of promise to it. So in about 2010 after being a full time journalist for several years. I switched to the dark side and I started doing PR. I had the benefit I suppose, of really being in touch with in Calgary, the small business community and who was doing what in media relations and outreach and basically story telling. And that right was at the time where Social media was becoming a thing. And I knew I could help people with both.

Kelly Doody: So I started my own PR firm, which eventually grew into an agency with a friend of mine. And then one of those glorious days, that's the life changing moment and you can point to in your life or one of a few, it was my sister-in-law at the West Edmonton Mall water slides [crosstalk 00:03:20]. And she said to me... she said, "take your business online." And I'm sure a lot of your listeners and perhaps yourselves can relate that when you're a service practitioner and you're only making money by the hour or with whatever, however many hours you have in a day. I didn't love it. I felt like I was really constrained by, just sort of this ceiling on my head that had to do with, yes, earnings, but more so just the ability to scale and not being in that position.

Kelly Doody: So I started packaging up some of my so called expertise in content and media relations and I built my first course is called PR Pioneers and that was about eight years ago. And then just got really more into the education space to sort of build one, sell often one to many versus one-to-one. And then fast forward to 2019 and it's now a social school. And we run events, conferences and classes all across the country.

Christine H.: Very cool.

Kendra: Very, very cool.

Kelly Doody: Thank you. Yeah, it's pretty fun. And it just so happens that something in me said, "get the heck out of the PR game and stop talking about media relations." Love traditional media more than ever, particularly in this political climate we're living in where truth matters and journalism is so important. But I really also had much more of an interest in the digital marketing sphere. So I nerded hard. And I had to too, when I was building these online classes, like the curriculum was 4% of the work. It was 96% learning the platforms and owning them because I didn't have the funds to be able to pay someone to build a website, launched these courses, host them, pay walls, gateways, nurture campaigns, the whole thing. And as we know marketing is very much trial and error DIY, like just get down and, and get going on it. And that's when I say, the knowledge share community that is marketing. There's no PhD in this, there's not even a degree in the digital and the content sphere we're playing in. It's just get in and start working on it and then converse with your peers and find out what's working and what's not so [crosstalk 00:05:21].

Kendra: I agree especially because it changes so quickly, like something that's working now is not going to be working necessarily in two years or 18 months. It takes such a quick change. We've talked about this a little bit, also going from complicated to simple and so yeah.

Christine H.: And I think that's a little bit where Instagram is still this enigma. Is it really easy? Is there something I'm missing? Like, literally I don't know. Kendra and I, we went to Social Media X Awards in November last year. And we went to that seminar and we literally were like soaking everything up Instagram. But sometimes I find like I'm missing something? Is there something else to it? So this is really exciting for us because I think both of us, we are kind of knowledgeable about it and oh, I wing it Kendra is like a pro much more so, but I would love to know a little bit more. And I think a lot of our... it's actually converting very well for me Instagram, surprisingly. So I only got into it to build my brand and to do brand ambassadorships and things like that. But I think a lot... I think it's a great space for health. So tell us a little bit about your Instagram expertise. First of all, if you are in a health space, how can you use it? What should your goal be with Instagram?

Kelly Doody: Sure, yeah. And I suppose I'll start by answering that with two sort of big theories right now that we're sort of playing in. And one of those being that, and you guys have already said the word authenticity and absolutely we know so much that Social media and Instagram in particular right now, especially with its features like stories and IGTV and just even the communities and the forums that you can be a part of direct messaging aspect to it. We can do so much in exposing our A-words. We like to talk about moving past the four P's of marketing. Welcome to 1992 and going into the ace of authenticity and advocacy, which is the golden egg. Accessibility for your viewers, your listeners, your prospects or existing customers. Authority so that you're actually in a really authentic and humble or whatever your style is way, show that you know what the heck you're talking about. You are a leader in your field, you're an industry expert. People should trust you and want to buy from you, work with you, et cetera.

Christine H.: I'm like ready to storm out with it.

Kelly Doody: There you go. You got your A-words down, your A game is on point. But the other aspect of that is... and I suppose actually within that I will say that one thing we've become fiercely passionate about is not just the front end art but the backend science. And that's where we're seeing the difference. You already used the word Christine, convert. That is so important. So no matter what we talked about today, going forward, how we practice Instagram or Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, we have to be thinking about how this converts because otherwise it gets really bloody disheartening. You're like, "I'm three years, three months into and maybe now I'm promoting my posts, maybe I'm paying a photographer to up my game and I'm using an editorial calendar to plan my content and I'm ticking all those boxes to just raise my Insta game a little more."

Kelly Doody: But so what? Who cares? And we have clients and students who say this to us all the time and that's when we say we have no choice in 2020, 2019, but to be actually putting your money where your mouth is and actually maybe boosting your posts but to strategic audiences, running really complimentary Ad campaigns and sort of understanding that, that's backend technical aspect is where people are winning. And it's not a bunch of nerdy dudes. I hate to generalize. It should be the ones who are sitting there as the Ninjas, ones that are mastering SEO. It's like snake oil to the rest of us, or the paid rich that gets the content seen and acted on. We can all do this. And that's where I get so excited just to say to people like, "you're almost there. You just have to make slightly more targeted audiences or a bit more strategic content for that particular group of people. Or what's your goal? Where are people at in their customer journey with you and how do you reach them in each of those places?" And that was my super long winded way of saying, "Instagram can do all of that and more and it's awesome." I'm on fire.

Kendra: [crosstalk 00:09:28] Instagram because there's so many different ways to share content on it. You can do the short form video, the long form a video, the images. You can go live if you want to. And so I think there's a lot of different ways you can show up. I think where our audience might be confused is maybe the types of content they should be sharing it and like how to share it. Because I check out a lot of health coaches Instagram accounts and what I see is like there's a picture of a flower, there's a picture of a meal, maybe there's a quote and like they have like a hundred followers and they're frustrated because they're not getting anywhere. So I feel like... Can you tell our audience what types of content should they be thinking of sharing? Should it be about themselves? Should it be educational? Should it be behind the scenes? What should people actually be sharing on Instagram?

Kelly Doody: Yeah such a great [inaudible 00:10:11].

Christine H.: Not only use Shutterstock photos. I just went to spy out one of my competent competitors and I'm like, "If you only use shutter stock photos it looks so tacky, it's so old " And the other question I have is hashtags. Do they matter? Is it still a thing?

Kelly Doody: Yeah, okay. So, and I love it. Kendra what you're talking about is like basically where we start with everybody in strategy. And it's where whether or not you're working with an agency or you're totally solo. This is the piece that people most often miss and they just mediocre their into social, and Instagram in particular post, post, posts. And then the inevitable question is, "what the heck do I do next? I've run out of things to say." So the very like absolute must do starting point, whether it's today or 10 years from now, are content pillars. And what that is essentially is, what kind of themes can you break your content into? And you can do it in a really basic stance. And we do this all the time, like educate, entertain, inspire. So great if that's where you want to land, perfect.

Kelly Doody: But maybe for you it's more community culture promotional content. Maybe it's more product based. It's... We're working with the flooring company right now that says, that's way too, [woowoo 00:11:22] from me. I just need to straight up have pillars that include commercial, residential, renovation, awesome. Once we have our pillars set and we know how to essentially divide our content up into these buckets that allows for variety and interest and again that expertise to shine through that deeper more meaningful content because otherwise we just promote, promote, promote crap. I have an event this week, I haven't sold any tickets post, post, post and it just becomes numbing and sorry, unfollow. And then once we have those pillars in place we can come up with a really beautiful variety of content categories and that's where these can be universal.

Kelly Doody: How to unbox things, did you knows, behind the scenes, interviews, testimonials. And then really beautiful content types too, Still imagery, video, Carousels and then hopefully you can find a way to also start to insert graphics, animations, shifts. One of my favorite accounts is Plantarly. They're an Instagram planning tool plan O L Y and you look at their feed and I use it in classes all the time to show people like, "check this out." Not only are they like cycling through their nine grid on Instagram posts of color. So you'd go kind of purple in it ambers into yellow, into red, like beauty. This is like a 10 out of 10 A-game. But if we can even be a four out of 10, we're laughing. And then you can also start to see the pillars shine through. And they aren't technology company, they're pretty lame.

Kelly Doody: If you look on the surface and this is where we get into trouble. Where the realtor who's just posting, "Oh I don't know the latest house listing." or where a Physio therapist who's just posting the products that we work with as opposed to the faces and the transformation of those people. You're like... and we're not alone. Some of your, especially your service based health coaches, practitioners that are going, "God, it all feels the same." You've got to think deeper. My editor at the newspaper used to always say to me, "tell me more, tell me... who cares. I don't care Kelly. Someone's opening a restaurant or 50 other people. Tell me more." Well, "there is really neat family recipe from Italy of this pizza dough." Yeah, still don't care. Tell me more."

Kelly Doody: "Okay, well there's 42 members of this family in the kitchen and that's, they only hire their aunties. Like, "Oh, okay, interesting. Now I want to know the face and the person behind that story." But don't show me your latest like just same old, same old, the ribbon cutting, the zoomed out photo, the Shutterstock as you mentioned Christine. And that's what the humans connect with the faces in the context of humanity in those photos and in those stories.

Christine H.: I loved that. I think that's so important. Because a lot of these health coaches that I work with, or I'm checking out their Instagram accounts, I don't see them on their posts and their name might not even be in their bio. So how can you connect with that? There's no connection. I don't know who that is. They send me a message and it's from like health and wellness 200 with none of their name, none of their face. And you're just like, "uh, I'm not even going to answer this message." Because I don't know who this is." And I feel really bad because I'll have these DMs, but I'm like, "dude, I don't have time for this. I don't even know who you are, what this is about." And I'm like, no, no, no, no. But I agree that Kendra and I were pretty, no Kendra is not extroverted.

Kendra: I have my moments.

Christine H.: You have your moments It's actually difficult to say. We both actually like having photographs taken, right? So I have a Photo shoot wherever I go and then you see us a lot. But when I tell people that I... why is this on your Instagram? Shouldn't you be showing multivitamin? Or carrots or kale and all that kind of stuff, and I'm just... well that’s not what people check out. When they see that in their feed, it doesn't make them curious and I think it's so much... it's not about the photo in the end, it's what draws them in. But then it's about the headline and actually having a headline in an Instagram post is for many people like what do you mean headline? And to me in the meantime, I consider the posts that can teeny teeny weeny blog in a way. So it's fantastic what happens. And it's so true. Do change immediately your photo to you and not your logo or Kale.

Kelly Doody: Yeah that's a good starting point. Absolutely. People connect with a face, not a logo. And as infants I mean that's how we're wired. We look for the faces of our parents, the moment we can. And as adults we're the same. We want to see human faces and interaction. And we all know that trust has never been lower. It's hard to even trust Academia anymore let alone politicians and big business and banks. And it's just that this is the time we're in. We trust our friends, we trust referrals, the advocacy that comes from someone telling you, "hey, check out this restaurant, it's awesome." You're going to go there. So the more you can be that about authoritative, trusted face and person. But of course, if it's done in an artistic way and that's what's so beautiful about Instagram and when those varieties and content categories and pillars kind of get worked in and you just... all it takes is a bit of planning. Before we can get creative, we've got to get nerdy and we backed it up to an editorial calendar that says, "okay, I'm going to cycle through my entertain, inspire, educate, entertain, inspire, educate." Something like that, posts.

Kelly Doody: But I'm also going to cycle through a Still image that I took then a video, then a graphic, then some kind of, I don't know animation or... But again, the spice of life. If you pick up your favorite magazine, study Vogue, study Entrepreneur, Inc Magazine, and look at the layouts they've got. The reason we're so intrigued by a print Mag and the way that they've done it for decades so well is because the layout and the design and it leaves you wanting more. Emails are the same. I might love someone's email marketing or their messaging, but if it's always the same, there's no kind of surprise and delight. What am I going to see? What's going to make me open that email or make me start scrolling on their feed is going to be something that's different. So we have to also get past okay, "is it just me all the time or is it just my staff all the time?"

Kelly Doody: And that's where I truly believe that if you can showcase the people you're working with, and I know it's not always easy, we have privacy concerns we have kids to worry about. But if you can get 10 people that can be like these like faces of your business over the next 12 months that you can really showcase wonderful, right? But challenging ourselves a little bit, just like be the journalist of your business and dig a little deeper to tell those stories of transformation and end result because that's where you'll shine.

Christine H.: That's so good. It's so juicy. And so I just want to break this down a little bit. So what you're saying is, well first of all, people need to show up on their feed personally. They need to create content that people can actually connect with, which is not just like a bundle of kale or bacon and eggs.

Christine H.: Yap [crosstalk 00:18:09]. You have to show up in your feed and all that. And then you're saying like create these content buckets almost. Or more story like these different categories and like maybe figuring out like, what do you stand for in your business? If you're niching in like say weight loss, then you could have some of the transformations maybe you've created in your business and show those stories and tell those stories and maybe you have like different inspirational tips and then maybe you have recipes or whatever it is. But you're not always sharing the same kind of content, but you're breaking it down into these different categories, okay.

Kelly Doody: Absolutely. Yap[crosstalk 00:18:36] like what, Oh, sorry, go ahead.

Christine H.: Oh that's fine, But I'm not... like the way that I do it is because I don't plan. I'm notoriously bland and it freaks me out if I have to do like a long editorial calendar, like immediately, "I'm tired, I won't do it." And so it's just... But what I do, I do it in kind of this way because Kendra and I have been working with Jamie Jensen, who's also been on the podcast. And she helped us to basically flash out our story and she, through interviewing us separately with [inaudible 00:19:05] VIP days with her. She kind of figured out what our values are through us just talking and telling us her a story. And so whenever I do post, I go back to her framework that she created for me, which actually basically has exactly those pillars.

Christine H.: So some of them are business related and some of them are me related. And considering that the business is me, I usually go there and I look at, "Oh yes, I forgot that this word is something that is super important." And then I just pull something out that belongs to that. So it's not quite an editorial calendar because for me personally, that wouldn't work. It's just... I don't like it. It's just that my personality, I'm very organic. I'm never linear. That's not what I do. But [inaudible 00:19:50] do have that framework. So I think it's a brilliant idea to figure out what are your pillars and just even just write that one word and a post in it. Just put five posts around you that you always know I don't know what to think about, "Oh yes, this is my value or my businesses value." And you always find something to talk about because it's who you are. So I think that's brilliant. I do have a question though, because you said video and I was like, "I really want to do that." But what kind of video content would be Instagram like ish for let's say someone in the health space for example?

Kelly Doody: Well I mean... and a great question. I can't wait to hear more about what Kendra has been doing with her IGTV. Because this is a really beautiful feature that allows us to all be broadcasters of our own channels on our own. It takes stories to a bit of a deeper level, right? Within the platform, we're already a billion people are hanging out, so great. But when it comes to just sort of more high level video strategy. Once again, you have to figure out... I love the line, "Is it sustainable?" Can you actually dive into a video, strategy that is going to be something that's more than a one-off.

Kelly Doody: And I love to think to myself like, "okay, if I blog one time this year or let's say five blogs six times this year, that's six more times than last year." But at the same time I can't fall off the map. So what can you do? And I mean, the fact that we don't have to be as polished and perfect anymore or as maybe we did in the past with video. When we were going to be using it in commercial purposes. Because that's all we had. YouTube might still be a little bit more polished or it's a channel where you can certainly post sort of the more that more documentary like lots of post production and editing within it.

Kelly Doody: But Instagram stories and IGTV can be much more raw. So that's wonderful. All it takes is a little selfie stick or a tripod and a light and good sound. And all of those items you can buy for $30 a piece on Amazon. But at the same time for... back to the idea of what is the content that's best suited to you and what can you do? If you can't do an editorial calendar, no problem, but could you jot down five ideas for posts that week or look through your phone on the weekend, find a few photos and at least get yourself set up for some ideas. And then we get into the place where it's a little bit less, again, knee-jerk. And we're covering our bases, ticking our boxes and remembering as well. I love the idea of this dog trainer we have going through one of our certificate programs right now and she's lovely. And for her, the low hanging fruit on Facebook and Instagram is click baiting, you know the moose on the loose video playing in the paddling pool or the cat memes

Christine H.: Yeah, full techs.

Kelly Doody: But it might get some engagement and it might get some of those vanity metrics. The likes follows, shares. But it's not going to necessarily be the deeper stuff that makes me trust her with my new puppy, my new pet. If she doesn't plan and strategize and push herself to do the deeper, more strategic long form content or even just more, I don't know well thought out a series of posts or where she's showcasing her expertise, then she can sort of stay surface level. And with voice, the last thing I'll say, if you don't feel like you want to have a camera in your face and that's just not your thing, don't do it. Focus on the content that you can do well and maybe that is longer form writing and you should be blogging like crazy.

Kelly Doody: Maybe it's podcast because your voice is the soothing siren song. [inaudible 00:23:16]. But there's a lot of people doing Instagram stories really well that just hold the camera in front of them, but you get to know their voice. You never see their face. My friend, Dinner with Julie, Julie Ben Rosendaal does is brilliantly. And I love, she takes us on a journey every day with tons of stories, rarely see her face, but we so love her voice in the background. So you can do video in a lot of different ways.

Kendra: Yeah, I love that. And very quickly for people who are super new to Instagram, what's the difference between a on Instagram story and a video on IGTV? What is IGTV? And then you also have the live feature on Instagram stories, which I was like, what exactly is the difference? Until I realized that when you don't hold the button anymore on the regular story, it's like gone. So what is the difference between all of that?

Kelly Doody: Yes, great question. The short answer is that IGTV is sort of Instagram slash Facebook, who owns Instagram and Mark Zuckerberg answer to YouTube and YouTube live in particular. So just like they... let's say rinse and repeated photocopied everything that was Snapchat with Instagram stories 24 hours after disappearing mini stories. That were again more candid than what's in your sort of more polished scene. The IGTV was a way for us to go longer than we can go on stories. So you have a ten second video limit on stories. You can fill multiple live video stories in a row and they'll all show up. There are those little circles at the top of the feed, which I would think everybody's seen by now. But I was just with my girlfriends in Palm Springs on a ladies get away and three out of four of us had never heard of stories and that. And then they are like, "oh, what do you do?"

Kelly Doody: But anyway, so IGTV is now another feature where Instagram wants us to go deeper. And there's nothing like taking up a platform of any kind and just hanging out on it for the weekend and getting to know it. Every time someone says to me, "I don't like LinkedIn." I'm like, "have you been on it enough? Have you checked it?" Like really just dive in and you'll get so inspired as well as just have a better idea on, "hey, is this for me or not? Could I actually do this or do I want to just stay a voyeur and learn on it? Or actually do it way?"

Kendra: Yeah. Talking about voyeurism. So here comes my geeky stalky personality out. So if you're on stories, you can actually see everyone who's seen your story stories, which is kind of cool, but which also means that they see when you watch their stories. So I'm going to go and I'm going to share something with your sharing because I'm a huge stalker and I don't always want to people to know especially with some guy where I'm like, "no, I'm very cool, I don't care." So here's how you spy on someone so that they don't see basically when you have these circles, I think it's built that you just go through stories and then [inaudible 00:26:10] and the it continues. So if the circle is big, you go to the one afterwards, their story starts and then you just swipe back a little bit. And you can actually see what it's going to be about. Not the whole thing, but they won't notice. So as long as it doesn't really swipe over, you're good. So it's just enough [crosstalk 00:26:27] and it's like, "Huh-huh now I know and I look really cool because I don't care." But actually I do. So there you go it's [crosstalk 00:26:36]. It's funny if you were helping us be better stalkers I can see.

Kendra: I'm a very sad person, I am.

Christine H.: Very good and [crosstalk 00:26:44].

Kelly Doody: Oh, sorry go ahead. You go ahead.

Christine H.: You go.

Kelly Doody: I was going to say if you don't want to unfollow someone but they're posting too many stories, you can just hold that little circle and mute them and you won't see their stories anymore.

Christine H.: Which is great because if you unfollow someone, sometimes they yell at you though like, "you unfollowed me." And I'm like, why do people do that?"

Kelly Doody: Who cares? Like I can follow who I want to follow. It's not like a diss on you. I just don't want to follow you.

Christine H.: Totally. I know people are sensitive.

Kelly Doody: Okay. So I love this. So there's all different ways you can share the video. Like with IGTV, we can do that longer form video one. I think it's one minute to 10 minutes or something like that. And then IGTV, we are Instagram stories. We can do the shorter form video and then if you just want to talk forever you can do the live. But I think with the live it only lasts for 24 hours as well.

Christine H.: Yeah, right.

Kendra: Yeah, you can save it at the highlight afterwards I think.

Christine H.: It just takes a lot of effort, that's the one Instagram feature I don't really use is a Live. Because I feel like it's a lot of effort for something that disappears yet.

Kelly Doody: Yeah. It's really interesting where Facebook Live and Instagram Live are today and when Facebook Live came out about two years ago now it seems like, I don't know. It's funny Social media is like, it's also... it's really long and it's not that long. And of course we're all using it like a bunch of 19 year olds who want instant gratification as opposed to thinking of like, "how am I going to be using this for my business five years from now, 10 years from now." It is not going away. And that's why I really encourage the long game.

Kelly Doody: Stop thinking about just the next week and two months and think to yourself, what is Instagram going to have done for me two years from now? How do I want to invest in it currently?" Just like you would with a blog or just like you would with a video series. So, at the end of the day we need to think about whether live fills the right bucket for us as well. I read a really great line from actually Michael Stelzner of Social Media Examiner, who puts on the conference, it sounds like you guys attended or listen to. And for them they made a big decision that Social Media Examiner was no longer going to be using Facebook Live. And that was a big... They were heavy users. They had a big show on live.

Kelly Doody: And I love the simple analogy that we feel like we are trying to post a documentary on a billboard on the side of a super highway. People are flying by in their feed and here we're asking them to pause and stop and watch this video right here. Whereas when you're in a video specific platform like YouTube, you expect to be watching videos. You're not necessarily watching it. And I think that's why stories work so well because they're in Instagram, but they're short and quick and I can fly through them so easily. And just like podcasts, when you're diving into a podcast, you know what you're in for and you're folding your laundry or walking your dog at the same time. So you're ready for 45 minutes of juicy stuff. So we've really... It's just so mind blowing to me because I'm such a nerd, but I can't believe how much Facebook Live was so effective a year and a half ago. In terms of also the reach, like the organic reach we could get out of a Facebook video, maybe think to myself, why doesn't everybody stop wanting to be on Breakfast Television and Oprah and just start doing Facebook Lives? You're reaching a hundred times- [crosstalk 00:29:43].

Christine H.: It's very true.

Kelly Doody: However, and that's not to say like things are changing too [inaudible 00:29:48]. We don't invest in anything. Because I really... I don't agree with that sentiment. I think we're living in a time where these platforms have risen to the top as multi-billion dollar enterprises that are not going away and will continue to be invested in. A couple of years ago, everybody was worried that Facebook was like super lame because their mom and their grandma were now on it. And what do you know? Zuckerberg and his pals doubled down on it and made fantastic new features have made it the most powerful advertising platform in the world through Facebook Business Manager. So, yeah, you're in really good hands and it's a safe bet to double down on these platforms. Invest in them, but you don't have to use every single feature within them. Use the ones that make sense for you.

Christine H.: Yeah, I love that. And I think that's a really... because yeah, it's really easy when there's four different ways to share content on the single platform. Yeah, you can get really sidetracked and think you need to do it all. But I think you're right. You have to do what makes sense for you and what seems to work best in terms of what is the best engagement you can. And we were talking about this before we recorded. I'm just finding that my IGTV videos get five times the engagement and the traffic that all the posts in my feed and even what I'm getting in stories. I might get upwards of a thousand views on my IGTV videos. I might get 300 people watching my stories and I'll get like 50 likes.

Kendra: Because its so not close.

Christine H.: And so I'm like don't even know why I'm posting to my feed anymore other than-

Kelly Doody: I know, right?

Christine H.: You know pepper it in just to make it look nice.

Christine H.: Yeah, that’s exactly what I do. I love my feed because I think it's pretty, I'm just a total narcissist and I like just to watch my myself, no. I'm just kidding. But that's what I use my feeds for. Like literally, it's just in a long term. I'm really thinking someone who goes to see my feed and scrolling through it can see like, "okay, she's consistent. She has a certain ranch has she has a certain aesthetic, that's what it's for. It's like my business... my digital business card really. And Instagram stories is for the promotional push that I need sometimes or for fun, like literally showing pieces of me that don't belong in my feed because they're too goofy or then just me and I just don't want it to break up the prettiness.

Christine H.: But it's also interesting when you said, trying things. Because I always thought, "Instagram stories I don't want to make anything that's longer than five seconds or 15 seconds." And then I saw that Kendra was doing a lot of videos on there that a little bit longer, like not eternity, but still a little bit like that take like five taps, for example. Jimmy Palma did one recently. Not too hot topic at all, but I watched the whole thing, so I've tried it. And what doesn't make sense to me though is that when you look at who watches your story, you can see, okay they watched the first part, they watched the second, then they didn't watch the third, but they watched the fourth and the sixth again, which is really weird to me. So I don't quite understand how that works in their brain or in the feed. I don't know.

Christine H.: But it's interesting for me to kind of dissect it and to also see who's watching because it's very surprising and you can actually adapt what you're saying and what you're marketing to who is actually watching. Because I found people won't comment. The people won't, like a lot of them won't. But when you see in stories who's watching, you can actually tailor your audience to that, which I think is just fantastic.

Kelly Doody: Yeah, that's brilliant Christine, because I mean what you're describing right there is optimizing your content and you can optimize your Ads based on what's working, what's not. It's the same as AB Testing. It's the same as just essentially understanding your audience and catering it to them. And you can do it in a really like super nerdy reporting style way with lots of metrics. Or you can do what I love to call Anecdotal Analytics. I know this is working because of that. I know that that got a sick amount of views because we were moving down the street as we filmed that IGTV. We opened the door and welcomed someone in versus doing our typical sit down to talking heads style interview where we're 15 feet away.

Kelly Doody: Someone said recently or I think it actually started when Facebook Live first launched, they said if you're holding the phone more than an arms length the way you're doing it wrong. [crosstalk 00:33:45]. Yeah. And that was also because Live are same with Periscopes and with Meerkat, before that they were all about... it was a two way broadcast. So are you just speaking at people or are you welcoming them in? Of course IGTV is more of like you're filming a broadcast. But then how are you engaging with them after that fact? And again, just going back to those conversions. What is working well as you just described Christine like you know this is working, so I'm going to do more of that and this is totally tailored to this group. And even more so I'm going to further boost it to people like that in my killer audiences that I've pre-created in Facebook Business Manager.

Kelly Doody: So I'm going to just reach women age 25 to 32 who love, I don't know, CrossFit and Green Smoothies and live in London, England or something, right? But we're specific because Facebook will take your money and run. But it's super targeted and tailored to then further promote that content to like-minded audiences or a look alike audience of that. The group that watched that video, great. I'm actually headed into, I don't know Philadelphia with a conference. I've got a market that same video to a look alike audience of a similar profile of women in that market and I'm going to nail it. And it goes back to that idea of like instead of spraying and praying, I love the orchard example.

Kelly Doody: In the olden days just spray the whole field with water or rain and now we drip the water into the base of every Apple tree because that is where it's going to be most effective costs as the least amount of money and reach only those who give a crap. A million people are not an audience for anything. 100,000 if you're in a big market or 10,000 a smaller market, whatever that looks like for you is where we win, when we can tailor and target and now we're spending a lot less too.

Christine H.: So curious what types of audiences, because I know like I'm familiar with the audiences that you can create for Facebook Ads on Facebook, but what about Instagram? Like what audiences [crosstalk 00:35:35] Instagram we are all on the same page.

Kendra: Yeah, I love it.

Kelly Doody: Facebook is already at this thing where I'm like, "I just still mourn all the money that has gone down the Facebook Ads or texts and I still don't understand. But I love Instagram, and the only Apps that I mostly see that or that's target to me. I don't know why a luxurious cars, Villas, [inaudible 00:35:57] and cats. So obviously I'm in some target group there, but I don't even remotely see what kind of Ad I could do and who I target it to. Like it's so intimidating to me and I'm so like, "no, I don't want to waste all that money again." I don't even see what it would look like on Instagram. So hit me.

Kelly Doody: Okay. I'm like going like this because I'm like, "Oh because I like, "its my favorite nerdy topic right now." Again like art is great, right? And this is my problem with agencies is that I'm like, "you've guys we've got yes, beautiful photographers, videographers, graphic designers, animators, copywriters, headline expert, like yes." But we can all now do that." And if you're half good at it, and even what happened in our agency world is we... you have these clients that you're doing this for, "hey, we're content strategists now we're going to create your brilliant content, make you have all your A words shine, great." But after a while, that company hopefully figures that out and we're like, "we can do this awesome." That is where the agencies are not stepping up and we're marketers are so under-trained. And at least once a day I have someone email me and say, "hey Kelly, do you know any digital gurus, digital wizards?

Kelly Doody: And I'm like, "what you really mean as someone that can kill it for you on your Instagram, Facebook, Google Ads, right? With the side of SEO." With the side of SEO and they are like, "yeah, yeah that." So the thing about it is this none of these platforms are rocket science. And I say that because if they were then no Joe-blow like you and me would spend money on them and actually make Mark and his friends billions of dollars. And sadly for traditional media, this is where advertisers are spending their money because that's where the eyeballs are. When there's 2.2 billion people actively using Facebook every month, we better be advertising now and showing up there. And the more and more that the big multi-national companies like Proctor and Gamble and Ford Motor car. Everybody who advertises in the first 10 pages of Vogue magazine. Those guys are shifting more of their dollars away from Vogue and into Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn advertising.

Kelly Doody: But we can still do this at a super affordable way. So the way we do it is through Facebook Business Manager, right? Facebook Business Manager is not the same as a Business page. It is a platform-

Christine H.: So even If you're advertising on Instagram, you still want to use Facebook business manager?

Kelly Doody: That's right. The first thing you do is you add your... you connect your pages in your accounts, both Instagram and Facebook. Then you create your audiences, which you can create the most insanely. They're so good. They should be illegal. Like I can upload my email list and my subscribers and I can then target them on Instagram stories with an Ad. I can target... I can have a pixel firing them to my website, which takes four seconds to install. And then anybody who's been on my website on this particular page in the last 30 days, or they were on a year ago and haven't been back, or they landed on that checkout page but didn't buy or I can target them with an Ad. And now I have this beautiful way to move people again through my funnel, first of all, from awareness to action. But also I can then choose whatever placements I want. So this is everything from Facebook feeds to marketplace to Facebook Messenger, Facebook Stories, as well as Instagram feed, Instagram stories, Instagram... IGTV wherever I want to. So this is-

Christine H.: So you can advertise on IGTV?

Kelly Doody: Yes.

Kendra: Oh, very cool. I was not aware of that. I haven't been in my Facebook Ads dashboard in a while. That's so cool. Yeah. And when I was running Ads to stories, I did find that the story Ads were really high. They converted really highly and it was so easy. It was literally like a 15 second video of me being like, "hey, I got this free cheat sheets swipe up." And it was just like... it wasn't produced. It was just me walking around in my living room. And I think that works well because it kind of fits in with all the other stories. So it almost doesn't look like an Ad. And it converted so well and it was really cheap cost per lead.

Christine H.: Question, do you need to have an Instagram Business Account or can it be Personal Business Account? Because mine is on personal right now.

Kelly Doody: Yeah, now that's one of those little tricks they pulled on us, right? Same way we were all encouraged to have a Business page. I will say though that as a business, you get so much more insight about your audience as well as these business tools when you become a Business page. Does your organic reach go down? Yeah, it does. But at the same time, so has our personal reach and if we want to get really strategic as... and maybe it's not this year, maybe you're going to still use your personal feed in a way and you feel like it's effective and you're going experiment with content. And then you're going to start doing more of that whole right brain stuff. No way, I always confused those two.

Kelly Doody: But more of the backend stuff when you're ready to strategically advertise. And the first thing we always say is, "when it comes to paid reach and getting your content more seen as not that I exist to tell them when people who spend money on the internet by any means. However, I will be very frank and saying, "if you want to actually have results from your Social media, you need to be advertising on Facebook, Instagram or Google. It just is the way it is. It won't be seen. So start small, start with promoted posts, but don't just blindly boost a post for $20 to men and women who live in-

Christine H.: That the people who like this page. That's the worst audience ever.

Kelly Doody: Yes.

Christine H.: I'm like who are those people? You have no idea if it's the friends of the people who like your page or your ideal client. I think that's the only way more horrible [inaudible 00:41:13].

Kelly Doody: Yeah. And when you get a bit better at it, and I'm telling you it just takes a bit of time and commitment to the platform. You get really familiar with it and becomes super fun because for us, if we're going into Regina with a conference. If we spend $1,000 on Ads in Regina on both of those platforms and maybe some third party sites, which we can do as well. Then we expect to at least sell $10,000 worth of tickets. But generally we'll see not a 10X return, but like a 30X return and it's incredible. And if a certain Ad is not doing well and it's costing us more than 30 cents a Click through, then we'll turn it off and optimize the ones that are working.

Christine H.: Yeah. And I think it really comes down with, you got to know who you're talking to. You can't just blindly put some Ad out into the world that has no purpose. You don't know what the end goal is to a bunch of people who are random. And I know in our audience, they have a lot of resistance I guess towards like defining who they're actually talking to, defining their avatar. And this is something I talk about a lot but a lot of the coaches I work with, they just... they have analysis paralysis. Is that's it?

Kelly Doody: Yeah.

Christine H.: And they just can't figure it out. And I'm like, "just pick something, like test it." [crosstalk 00:42:23] You have talking to because if you just put out a random Ad to random group of people, you're wasting your money.

Kelly Doody: Totally. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Testing your content and then also testing any kind of investment you're making in the same way that maybe you still feel like Radio campaigns and Postcard Mail drops are working for you. Great, but if you don't actually have a stake in that and an interest in knowing, "well how many did that actually convert? I put a promo code on that postcard. Not one was redeemed." Okay, point noted. Versus maybe this campaign over here that I ran on Instagram or this just basic promoted post for $100. Not only did it garner me some conversions and traffic to my site, awesome. Because I'm paying attention to my Google Analytics and seeing where they came from. But I also got all these new followers and engagements and now these people are with me for hopefully likes, if I do a good job versus a one-off flat engagement with a postcard that I'm never going to see them again. So, yeah.

Kendra: Excited! 2020, I'm going to just see what I'll actually do 2020 but it's going to involve some Ads again. I'm going build up my trust again and just try. But not Facebook. I am not friends with Facebook but Instagram-

Christine H.: Well I think Instagram ads are a good opportunity. And I'm not sure if it's still like this but I know the IG Story Ads did... were pretty cheap. I was getting three cents a lead like that. Yeah. I wasn't even paying just a story. It's got me like 24k so, okay.

Kelly Doody: Yeah. And I still think there's a lot of organic opportunities on Instagram, but I think once you get to a certain part in your business, you need something that's reliable and that's really where the Ads come in. It's not just like bring it out and hoping, but actually knowing that this many people are going to see this Ad in the right group and then you can start predicting how much money you should bring in. Yeah.

Kendra: Especially depending if you have courses, which I feel a lot of our clients steal client, our listeners do or if you have products like supplements or anything like that, I think that is where it's hard. And just doing high end Ads might not be exactly that, but business mentoring might be. So you need to see what is your price point, what makes sense.

Kelly Doody: Yeah. And if you're doing it well and again, paying attention to the return that you're getting, excuse me. You get to a point where we're a small business as well. Like I have... we're a team of four, but we are going into new markets and we need to be taken seriously and we need to grow our... all the things, all the revenue, bottom line things everybody else does. And I'm at a point where I'm like, "if I had 17 credit cards that I can throw down on Instagram Ads every month, I would." Gary Vaynerchuk said this all whole day long. He was a very brush marketer from New York. But like down on these, because they're undervalued right now and under-utilized. And that's changing. The keywords that I used to bid on for marketing education Ads on Google. So Google Keyword Ad that might've cost me $2 in 2002 is now $36 to bid on for in 2019 are way more hundred dollars sometimes.

Kelly Doody: So Facebook's nowhere near that yet and Instagram. But as I said, as more and more people start to shift their dollars from traditional to digital, and I don't just mean a digital version of the newspaper. I mean like literally social norms, then these costs rise. But right now we're in this golden era of being able to really reach people magnificently and you will see return. It's terrifying when you start spending thousands of dollars monthly on Facebook and Instagram Ads, but when you're getting 20, $30,000 in sales or in leads as a result, why wouldn't you do it?

Christine H.: Yeah. I don't know who said this, but I heard someone say, "Don't be cheap with your dream." And I love that because yeah, if a lot of us, we build a business, it's our dream to work from home or retire our partners or whatever it is. We really, really want this. We're very emotionally tied to it. And you can't just do it for free. You have to invest in it if you care about it. So don't be a cheap ass.

Kelly Doody: That's right. And first learn how to do it so you don't just burn your money. But any one can learn this stuff. I know it feels overwhelming just like anything but pay someone to do it for Christ's sake. [crosstalk 00:46:30].

Kendra: If I don't want to do that. I'm just like, "no." But I really don't mind paying a good agency to do that job.

Christine H.: Totally.

Kelly Doody: Yeah. Or pay someone and like the great thing is you can learn all this shit on YouTube. Like there are so many great videos. I've learned a lot of what I know about Instagram by going on YouTube and like following specifically people who have a lot of knowledge on the topic. And just getting all those tips and tricks, trying it out, testing it, seeing if it works and going from there.

Christine H.: Exactly.

Kendra: Totally. Brilliant. Well that was my brain exploding kind of contents. I loved it. Thank you so much Kelly.

Kelly Doody: My pleasure. I really, really loved chatting with you guys and hopefully your listeners are likely in a place like many of our students where they're figuring it out themselves and then they're feeling pretty empowered by it.

Christine H.: Yeah. And they can either start hiring Kendra and I very soon. So we're going to do more on that in the future. And I'm just teasing [inaudible 00:47:26]. But... Or they can obviously get in touch with you. So Kendra and I hire our own guests on a regular basis.

Kendra: We hire them all the time. It's so funny. [crosstalk 00:47:39]. We need to hire this person.

Christine H.: Like I said, Kendra texts like, "I hired her." I'm like, "me too."

Kendra: Where can our students find out more about you Kelly? If they want to connect with you and Social school and what you do, how can they find you?

Kelly Doody: Thank you so much. Yeah, we're at Inputs, Outputs is IO. And we have plenty of... we try to produce as much free content as we can that supports people. We'd like to be a resource first and foremost and the how-to-people. So try not to inspire but also equip. And we've got tons of courses that start $29 that are platform specific for Instagram for business, blogging for business. We have an IGTV course if you want more on that. And they go right up to digital and social media certifications and so-

Kendra: Amazing. I'll be checking into us courses like.

Kelly Doody: Thank you.

Kendra: I know it's like I stated it, "no, stop. Why didn't you finish that's 50,000 that I already have [crosstalk 00:48:32].

Christine H.: I love buying courses. I just love- [crosstalk 00:48:40].

Kelly Doody: Totally. We have one with some coaching along with, it's called our Guided Online Stream where the completion rates are very high and we hold you to it. We meet every week for webinars and quizzes and two days in office hours. Yeah. That's my favorite.

Christine H.: Yeah, it's good. I know a lot of people who... they're like "I own $30,000 of courses and I haven't completed one." And you're like, "Oh my God! you've got to finish those." Totally. I love it. Yeah. Aren't we funny?

Kelly Doody: Well thank you very much you guys. And there's a bunch of free resources too, I think it's at our website there. If you subscribe to our newsletter, you get access to our dashboard of tons of tip sheets and downloads.

Christine H.: That sounds juicy. We'll definitely link to that in the show news for this episode. Thank you so much Kelly. We really, really appreciate it. Thank you for hanging out with us and talking stuff and being ridiculous and laughing. We always appreciate it and thank you everyone for listening. Remember, if you liked this episode, make sure to screenshot it, share to your Instagram stories and let us know your take-homes. Let us know what you learned. And mention 360 help is podcast and we will share it back to our stories because we love Instagram.

Kendra: And leave us a five star review on iTunes, [inaudible 00:49:43] guys. We would love it.

Christine H.: We love your reviews and we will read it on air and give you a shout out and yeah. We will come at you again in another week with a Biz Bomb, which will be super juicy and it'll explode your brain. Take care.

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