No matter how much marketing and sales experience you’ve had, marketing YOURSELF is so different, so much harder than selling a product that isn’t directly tied to you. Amanda Daley experienced this first hand. With 19 years of marketing experience for big corporate businesses, she struggled to sell herself as a health coach. In fact, the first nine months of her business she didn’t have any clients.
After some mindset work and doing the work to determine her ideal client, she went from $0 to $5,000 a month. And today she’s letting you in on what the 5 steps are to reaching that so you too can make $5,000 a month.
The 5 steps to making $5k are: mindset, finding the right business model, client niching, the perfect sales sequence, and saying yes/no to a client.
2. Finding the right business model
3. Have the right eyeballs on you
4. Ask for the dance
5. Soulful sales
To learn more about these steps, tune into the episode.
Amanda Jane Daley is a leading Business Mentor for Health Coaches worldwide. Renowned for her marketing expertise (with over 19 years of experience!) Amanda has earned recognition by the world’s top advertising awards, and has built her own 7-figure coaching business in under 5 years. Founder of the successful health coaching biz 'Fuel Urban Wellness', Amanda combines her business + coaching savvy to mentor other health coaches to start their businesses and learn to make $5K+ per month — and has been dubbed the 'leading expert' for Health Coaches who desire a heart-fuelled business and a freedom-based lifestyle.
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Kendra: Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of the 360 Health Biz Podcast. I am here all by myself, sadly Christine is not with me today. We are recording with a very special guest who is on the other side of the world, managing three time zones was not possible, so you just have me but we have an awesome episode as always for you. I'm actually super excited for this episode because I am interviewing someone who I followed many years ago when I was starting out my business as a health coach, so it's very much a full circle moment and we have like a total OG, the OG business mentor for health coaches.
Kendra: So we are hanging out today with Amanda Jane Daley or Amanda and she is a leading business mentor for health coaches worldwide renowned for her marketing expertise with over 19 years of experience. Amanda has earned recognition by the world's top advertising awards and has built her own seven figure coaching business in under five years. Founder of the successful health coaching biz Fuel Urban Wellness. Amanda combines her business plus coaching savvy to mentor other health coaches to start their businesses and learn to make 5k per month and she's been dubbed the leading expert for health coaches who desire a heart-fueled business and a freedom-based lifestyle. Welcome Amanda.
Amanda Daley: Thank you, thank you. So great to be here.
Kendra: Yeah, I'm super excited to talk to you today and we're going to be talking about five steps to 5k months and I really love that because I think everyone's talking about the 10k months, but when you're only making 1k a month, 10k seems crazy.
Amanda Daley: Totally.
Kendra: I would love to know, why don't you introduce yourself and just tell us like how you ended up here and why you focus on helping health coaches?
Amanda Daley: Yeah, sure. Absolutely. It is so great to be here and so special to hear that you've been following, for all those years, definitely. Yeah, it helps me reflect where I've come from, but when I mentioned the 19 years in online business and marketing, that was my whole life really. My first job was in the startup team of eBay in the UK as a young 21-year-old. And that was all exciting, but I really followed that path through the digital startups and working actually mostly in design and art direction in TV stations and then in Sydney for many years in advertising. And honestly online marketing and everything was like the poor cousin for many of those years, there weren't many of us who were really specializing in it so it's pretty cool to see where the world is today in marketing.
Amanda Daley: That was my background and I love it, marketing is everything to me and the problem is that my body wasn't keeping up with working in that corporate environment. And I literally used to spend every cent I make and run off whenever I could to go heal myself, because I thought I wasn't enough to keep up in the corporate environment. I was struggling really badly with adrenal fatigue, just all a host of issues really. And I was doing energy healing and yoga training and all the things to try and fix myself and to a degree had life-changing results as many of us I think did have a health crisis to get into health coaching, and then at same time it wasn't working.
Amanda Daley: So when I heard about health coaching it was just like, oh my gosh, this light bulb moment. And so of course I jumped and I trained to be a health coach and rather naively in hindsight thought, "Oh, I'll just throw in my whole advertising career and be a health coach because that's going to be easy, isn't it?"
Amanda Daley: I don't know what I thought, but I was that burnt out really at that time. And I guess when you meant to be on a different path, you really will be nudged and I did leave. That was early 2012 that I left my advertising career and started being a health coach. And the first nine months I had no clients, that was the reality.
Kendra: Yeah. It's amazing that you had all this marketing background and still couldn't figure it out. Right?
Amanda Daley: Could not figure it out. And I guess there's many reasons for that. One, I will say straight off I think is because selling ourselves is so much different.
Amanda Daley: You mentioned, my background I was winning international awards for people like Coca Cola, not clients we're proud of now, but big international clients.
Amanda Daley: No worries doing that, so why could I not get even a client? I think the first reason is absolutely that selling ourselves is really, really hard when we're not used to that. And then two, of course I was just copying everything that the schools taught me, which was not wrong, I think I just didn't get it or wasn't able to hear it in that way. So it took me quite a while to piece it together doing any training, and there wasn't specialized health coaching training back then either so piecing together things and what did and didn't work.
Amanda Daley: Yeah, but eventually I got it up and running 5k a month was a real for me turning point when I got to that, you could do that consistency, did that for a number of years. Many people were starting to sign up with me secretly to get business coaching because they could see what I was doing in the guise of needing health help. And I really was very anti it for a long time, moving into business coaching, all I wanted to do was help women, with their energy, with their... It sounds so cliche, but step into their power. What else is possible, expansion? And I did think marketing and business was the devil having come from that, I was so resistant for a number of years, but obviously one thing led to another and 2014 I yeah shifted to being... well during that year transitioned to mentoring.
Kendra: Yeah. Yeah. And now you just love the business and the tech. Right?
Amanda Daley: Well I love all of it. Now that was not of it for me, realizing, not shoving out that part of me. I do know marketing very well. I love it, live and breathe it, but at the same time I love that inner journey and I love all the healing work I've done and it was only when I realized that business was really going to be a conduit for me to do that work with women and I do find business is, as I'm sure you would agree, the biggest personal development journey on earth.
Kendra: Oh my gosh, yes. It is, it is.
Amanda Daley: So yeah, when I truly understood that I was still going to be able to do that work with women and realized what I was sitting on too. I wanted to be a health coach and I wanted to make a difference and I realized all these other people didn't know what I did and what I had pieced together. Yeah, so it all came together and I haven't really looked back, I'm still running the same program I started in 2014
Kendra: Really? Oh my gosh, I'm jealous because I lose interest after a year, I drive myself crazy.
Amanda Daley: Yeah.
Kendra: That's amazing. And I love what you said about thinking marketing and business was the devil probably because where you came from and I feel that a lot of health coaches have that same perception because maybe their experience with marketing and sales is like the shitty vacuum salesman who's tried to sell you a broken vacuum or this like in-your-face advertising where the commercials are on high volume and they're shouting things at you. But of course that's not really what we're doing with health coaches but I think there's such a slimy perception around it, that a lot of coaches don't even want to look into it. Right?
Amanda Daley: Totally. Totally. Yeah.
Kendra: And so I want to keep today super actionable because I know we're going to be going through those five steps. And I'd love to jump into that because I talk to so many health coaches and I know most of them are barely clearing like 2k, 3k a month. And like you said, that 5k was such a turning point for you and I know it would be such a turning point for our audience, like that's when you can start paying your bills, it's awesome.
Amanda Daley: Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Do you want me to dive in and...
Kendra: Let's just dive in.
Amanda Daley: Yeah. Cool. So look, step number one for me is actually what we started to talk about a little bit, is mindset and particularly, I often talk about money mindset. Now I'll give this a caveat, I personally feel that where I've grown my business to is 80% mindset, but without the 20% marketing... It's chicken and egg, you've really got to know the marketing steps to be able to do that. But I will start with mindset because we started talking about it.
Kendra: I would love to.
Amanda Daley: There's three particular mindsets that really stand out to me having mentored health coaches for the last seven, eight years. The first one is feeling like a fraud, not feeling expert enough. And I think we all felt that way and everyone can feel that way, but I literally see it from every single person who comes to me and they feel like they're alone. They feel like it's just them. So if we can see this as it's a mindset that's going on in you, but it's not you, it can really help us to understand, all right, this is a beginner thing and feeling like a fraud especially I think for health coaches, it's a new industry, it's not well-known. It's not like a personal trainer where everyone knows what it is. For me, part of this is cumulative when we're looking around at what is out there. I'm not a doctor, Oh, I didn't learn to do lab testing, Oh, I can't prescribe.
Amanda Daley: And I'm a big advocate of really understanding health coaching. Keeping in our lane, and that's a lot of the work I do with clients is my beliefs on health coaching are very much about prevention, very much about don't go to a doctor unless you can look them in the eye and say that you are doing movement, you are eating your veggies. And it's amazing how we beat ourselves up and just can't get in the game because of the fraud complex.
Amanda Daley: So that's probably the top one but equally up there for me is the scarcity. There's already too many health coaches out there, there's no room for me. Why would people work with me? All of that not enough-ness. And then I'd say the third one is low value, which is as healers we feel we shouldn't be charging a lot of money for our services. I mean this person's sick, how could I be charging? And ultimately that comes back to our own self-value, right? And how we value health coaching as well. So those mindset pieces to me got to be in place before we even...
Kendra: Oh yes, I totally agree. And it's funny because I saw so much mindset stuff when I was health coaching and sometimes I felt overwhelmed by it. And then when I went into business coaching I'm like, "Oh, it's going to be so different and we're just going to be talking about strategy and marketing and ads and it's going to be so easy." And then ultimately that's exactly what I was faced with. It's the fraud, which is the impostor syndrome and I think, how I see that manifest is coaches thinking they need to keep taking more certifications in more courses, right? They're just like, "Oh I need to take this training." And health-related trainings, they're not doing any business training. They're just like, "I need to take this certification in health and I need to get my gluten practitioner certification and then I need to learn about this and that." And it's like, well that one certification that you have is really all you need.
Amanda Daley: Totally. Totally. Yeah. The chasing of it and it's like trying to fill a hole that just won't go away if we don't look at these pieces.
Amanda Daley: Yeah. And I personally, the program that I run is a group program, it's a mastermind program and I won't actually work with beginners one-on-one for the reason that I really believe you've got to be around other people and get, this isn't just you this is how we all feel and, you see Sarah yesterday felt like that and now she's putting herself out there and none of us... I work very hard on my programs for my clients to see, I'm not any different than you, this is what I've done, this is the mindset that it's taken. I just want everyone to know we're all in this together and we can make ourselves almost in a negative way too, special. Like, "Oh, it doesn't work for me," Or, "I'm not enough," and all these things and I just find, yeah working in group has been the biggest factor for me personally but also for clients in moving through that.
Kendra: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, because it's true and I think with new health coaches, they don't even realize that these are mindset blocks, they just hear it as truth. So they're not even aware, they're just like "This is how I'm feeling and this is real and this is truth." When it's like, "No, we all feel those things," and even at this level that me and you are at now, we've been in business for over five, six, seven, you 19 years. We still feel it sometimes.
Amanda Daley: Totally.
Kendra: But we just don't let it hold... We know it's not true. We're like, "Oh hello fear. It's you again. Cool." Like, "I see you but I'm going to keep going."
Amanda Daley: Totally, and who you surround yourself with is so key. I mean coaches, mentors, finding someone who holds a new belief but also the people, your peers and people who are masterminds and things like that. So just yesterday, a lady said she got off one of my free trainings buzzing, and got on the phone to a girlfriend and the girlfriend said, "Ah, health coaches don't make money. Don't go into that trap," like this kind of thing and she was down. And I was like, "Well, if you want me to share, this is my reality all day, every day." We find what we look for, don't we? And who we surround ourselves with is a choice and it's so important.
Kendra: Yeah. And it's so true with friends and family, they don't really understand what a health coach does and really they just want you to be safe. And in their opinion, trying to start your own business and be a health coach, that is not a safe path and not one that they understand. So people saying that to you is really just them trying to protect you, but it's because they don't understand. Right?
Amanda Daley: Of course, so that brings us back right to that fraud. It's a new industry and no one understands health coaching. And that's in my opinion, our job to get that out there and to be speaking up and educating people and that comes with being leaders in a new industry.
Kendra: Yes. And it's true. And I love what you said earlier about feeling like, it's a saturated industry and there's too many. It's actually not, because it hasn't been around for that long. We're all like early adopters of this, so there's lots of space.
Amanda Daley: There's so much space, yeah. Totally.
Kendra: Yeah. Okay. So that's your one step is the mindset. And I love that you start with this because I like to start with this as well because it's just like if you don't have the mindset, you're just going to self-sabotage.
Amanda Daley: Yeah. And really that's what you got to keep doing. Right? So that's why I put it there.
Amanda Daley: So the second to me is having the right business model or by right, finding the right one for you. So many people come in thinking like, I'm just going to start selling single sessions or the six-month package from my school or whatever, and they haven't really mapped out, what do you need? And when we want to look at a 5k a month model, for example, the plan that I share with everyone is three to four days a week, three to four clients, or two to three days a week, two to three clients. Now that's just an example, but what I find from most health coaches is they don't want to be millionaires. They don't want to hustle 24/7 and if you do, great but many of them, trainings or business models focused on, like you said before, 10k months, six figure years, whatever at the beginning are really quite intense and that might not be what you want.
Amanda Daley: So I find people either overshooting or undershooting by trying to sell all these single sessions all the time. So actually getting out your calculator and working out first, what's my blueprint? How many clients am I going to need? How to make $5,000 for example, maybe I need five one-on-one clients a month and then we can work backwards in how you do that. But I find that if we don't work that out, especially a lot of people are working full-time jobs and trying to do this on the side or have kids at home, it again comes back to mindset.
Amanda Daley: It's a little bit like, thinking this won't work. Oh I'm too busy, I don't have time. Just getting in the facts, what is it I'm trying to build? How many clients? What's my financial goal? Where will that fit in my calendar? The structural plan if you like, first.
Kendra: Yeah, I love that. And then I think it can be a big wake up call for people, they're like, "Okay, I want to make 5k a month and I'm selling single sessions for $80 an hour." Do the math and you're like, "Oh I have to do 60 sessions or whatever it is a month and I can't find all those clients, and I can't fit that in my schedule."
Amanda Daley: I should know this number because it's in a webinar that I've done probably 20 times. I'm pretty sure the number is 143 you would need, if you wanted $5,000 from one-on-one sessions a month.
Kendra: Wow. It's impossible, you're going to burn out or you're going to just give up.
Amanda Daley: No wonder our brain in the background, right, is saying, "I can't do this. I can't do this." But you think about it again, when comparing to people like naturopaths and chiropractors, they have that many clients. They see 14 clients a day, times five days a week, times four weeks a month, they do. And then they have to try and get them to come back and it just doesn't make sense. So for me, working in what I call purposeful packages and designing a package that then fits that model is just the important foundation to get first.
Kendra: Yeah, I think that's important. And again, it's not their fault because our audience, they probably only have experience with a naturopath, in terms of someone they've seen. But health coaches aren't naturopaths, and in terms at least in Canada, I don't know what it's like in Australia, but a lot of people's extended health will cover the naturopaths service, so they have that going for them. It's maybe a bit easier for them to attract because there's a lot of people who just aren't going to see a health coach. They're just going to go with what's covered and what's on the list of professions. Right?
Amanda Daley: Yeah.
Kendra: But I also think those types of practitioners burnout.
Amanda Daley: Oh I've got a friend who, top-top naturopath and now many years on she's starting to mentor naturopaths, which is fun. But she tells me, "Amanda, everyone wants to be a health coach." Every naturopath wants to be able to work in packages, this is what they see with the health coach industry coming through. So there's always both sides. And so getting that package right is part of the business model, it's like to me one-on-one. And just on that note, a lot of the schools will teach a six-month program and people come out and most beginners would be terrified to go sell a six-month program when they've never done it before.
Amanda Daley: So we've got to find the sweet spot, right, between single sessions are not going to get results and then you're going to feel like a fraud because you're trying to sell something that you know is not going to get results in one session. I don't want to charge, versus six months and I work with clients to find their own package, however, I do find around the 12-week mark, around $1,000 package, can be quite an average of what people come out with and that matches to the 5k model.
Kendra: Right. And it's a good starting point. And I think $1,000 for a lot of people's going to feel like a lot of money, but at some point it's going to feel like you're going to want to bump that up. Right? And at some point what you charge $1,000 for now you might be charging 5k for in the future. Right?
Amanda Daley: And when you've got that business plan, therefore, okay, you've got the plan, you know you're going to do $1,000, you're not confident now, great. Go out and start at $500 or $400. And I always say I'm much more interested in you knowing the plan and knowing the model than how much money you're making because that will come. Yeah.
Kendra: Yeah. And I think I started at $500, I think initially that was my starting point. And I think you learn from that because your $500 package may not always attract the most committed clients and so I got frustrated. So I started raising my prices and at some point I hit a sweet spot where I was like, "I'm not getting as many people but the people I attract are super committed and they're ready and they actually do the work."
Amanda Daley: Love that. Love that. And then obviously the same model scales up. I've got ladies in my mastermind now, my more advanced, mastermind, making up to $20,000 a month from the same one-on-one and then not burning out and they're not even charging super high. Sometimes they might have to book a month or two in advance and then make that bridge but just again on the business model, I don't normally talk about this, but I just feel to say it right now, stick with the one business model that's probably one of my biggest tips. It works and stop looking for the next magical, maybe I should do an eCourse, maybe I should do this. As long as you like one-on-one coaching, stick with that and then allow your prices to go up and do the inner work.
Kendra: Yeah, I love that. And it's true, yeah. You can do really well with one-on-one, and I think it's a good starting point for all health coaches even if your goal is ultimately to sell a course or a group program. That one-on-one stuff is what gives you confidence, experience and it gives you the ability to get people results so that when you sell your course you're not just talking out your ass. Okay, so number two is business model and what's number three?
Amanda Daley: Number three, I changed what I call this one, today I'm going to call it eyeballs. I just like calling it eyeballs. Basically we'll just start with it's, who's my ideal client? Ideal client to me is something that is taught so wishy washy. It's one of those marketing terms that every school, every marketing course has, but ultimately in a nutshell, to me, target market is pain points and desired outcomes and at least for us to be able to talk too, and understand what someone in pain on, what do they want the outcome from. I honestly don't care a lot about how old they are, what job they have, how many kids they have, et cetera. However, I will say it needs to be one ideal client. And by identifying that we can now make our marketing message magnetic, literally if I'm talking to you right now, like I'm talking to you and you can feel it, whereas if I start talking to... Actually, my words have to stop like if I try to start thinking, "I'm talking to 50 people at once."
Amanda Daley: You actually can't do it energetically or physically. So identifying your ideal client and then every day the activity becomes, how can I be seen by that ideal client and ask them to work with me? So there is a two-step within that. Obviously your foundations as a beginner getting player on this is my ideal client, pain points benefits my one client that I'm speaking to and not being scared like you will attract everyone else and that's okay. But really that question for me, once we get into business every single day when we sit at the desk, how can I be seen by my ideal client and I say ask them for the dance. So, that's where our marketing has to start from, so many people, I can't find my clients. I'm sure you must get the same question.
Kendra: It's crazy.
Amanda Daley: How do I find clients, I just need clients.
Kendra: Who are you talking to? This is honestly I've seen this is the biggest blocking factor with new coaches and what I see as one of the main reasons why they're stuck and they don't know what content to create and they just don't know what they're doing. I would love your thoughts on why do so many health coaches resist it? Is that a scarcity, a fear thing? Like they just resist, resist, resist and they're just like, "No I don't want to turn people away. I want to help everyone. I want to be a health detective. I want to help people optimize wellness." And you're like, "No."
Amanda Daley: I think there's so many reasons why we have resistance, because some people basically just don't want to be coaching. And that's definitely, for me to date at the moment anyway, I'll only work in live programs because I do find that resistance, eCourses, et cetera don't tend to work when you have resistance and we all have it. So I'm not saying that won't change in the future, but at the moment that's why I stick with my high touch coaching. There's so many reasons, some of us actually don't want clients. I was working with a top level VIP client yesterday and every time I said, "Okay put out your marketing," it was the response back to me with some jumble about messaging and I had to say, "What's going on here? You could get clients to..." but she couldn't see herself doing it.
Amanda Daley: It was like bouncing out, "Oh, I haven't got my message. Oh, but my website..." And so we have resistance, let's just be honest about that. But resistance is not there to say, "I'm broken. I need to go fix myself before I can be a health coach." We all have it, we've got to move through it. Sometimes I think it comes back to the fraud, we are scared if we get clients that we're not going to get results, so it's much safer if we get stuck in a tangle of, "Oh I can't... my target market," like that is safe. It's a really safe place to get stuck. Secondly though, I do think I'm back to the scarcity, people have in their mind if they only talk to one person that they're not going to get clients. They think it's too tight and they feel bad, "What if I want to help Harry, and Trudy is my target market?" It's great, you have a magnetic message and Harry will come and you're allowed to work with them. It's just actually impossible to have, what I call a magnetic message, if you're not talking to one person because your marketing and everything should feel like, just like the two of us talking right now, having a coffee together. And the biggest thing I see is people coming into this marketing jumbo words that they've come up with for their target market. I don't even understand what you're... this isn't English.
Kendra: Yeah, I know I call it nutritionists language, it maybe makes sense to other health coaches and nutritionists, but it's like when was the last time you heard someone say, "I really just want to create a mindful routine so that I can be the best version of myself."
Amanda Daley: That's the third thing I was going to say, when you ask the question, why do people get stuck there? I always say as health coaches we're a little bit smarty pants. What I mean by that, is we've the training and we know that when you say weight loss, you really have an issue with your relationship, or you really are stressed, and as health coaches... Or maybe we've done mindfulness and we've done all the inner healing work and we want to jump there. And so what happens is we start making these packages and target market that sound like you said, "I'm here to empower women into their most enlightened something." It's like, "Huh?" You and I probably want that but I'm not going to pay for that.
Amanda Daley: This is why I say target market and messaging is more old school one-on-one marketing pain points, desired outcomes. I want the pill, look at all my oils or whatever, what have I got? Like the energy pill, the insomnia pill, this is what we buy. This is how we end... So I always say you need that business brand that is actually boring and then we can see you. We do see if you're putting out content or showing up and getting in front of these eyeballs with your marketing, I'm going to see that your heart-centered. I'm going to see that you're about empowerment. I'm going to see that you're holistic and not a scam. We do see you in your personal brand, when it comes to messaging, people will buy something that they're in pain for, full-stop. And that needs to be the match for this ideal client.
Kendra: Yeah, it's all about meeting them where they're at, right? Like they just started experiencing insomnia and sure, you know that they need to balance their blood sugar, eat breakfast and stop looking at screens at night. But right now all they know is I can't sleep and I just want you to help me sleep. Right? You really just have to lead with that and then your content and obviously your paid offerings are going to educate them on these other things in your presence. But yeah, you just can't make your niche the way that you get them there, it needs to be exactly what they're experiencing.
Amanda Daley: Absolutely. Yeah.
Kendra: Yeah. Okay. So number three is niche and ideal client, which is so important and I love talking about that. So what's number four?
Amanda Daley: Number four is what I call, ask for the dance. My accent is probably funny how I say that.
Kendra: I love your accent.
Amanda Daley: Even here in Australia, they can't understand it. So look, I find in the model that I teach is three boxes. So you've got be seen by your eyeballs, like I said. And the middle one is your discovery session or your sales call. And the third one is your delivery of your program. But how do we get from, I'm seen by new eyeballs, which to me is 80% of your work every day. But what I specifically said before if you listened, was how can I be seeing my ideal client and ask for the dance? And that's the bridge into getting on a call.
Amanda Daley: A coaching business is actually really, really simple, there's nothing more than those three boxes. And actually your job is just to get people on the phone... Is pretty much the job now. People go off and they make websites and flyers and all these things because they're hoping that will get people on the phone and they're doing all these long steps. So actually ask for the dance really needs to be heard, as in ask people to get on the phone, ask people if they want to have a conversation. And it's not 2012 like when I started out and you started out a similar time, where we could just do a blog post with, "Hey send me... If you'd like to get on a call," now we need to still put the call to actions in our social media, and in our pieces like "If you'd like to book a discovery call, and let me know."
Amanda Daley: But we are in the age of DMs and reaching out to people and having authentic relationships. That doesn't mean jumping into someone's direct message and spamming them with, "Hey come work with me." But if you see someone engaging in your posts, you see someone watching your videos, et cetera, start a conversation, get to know them and Instagram's wonderful for this. We do have to go that extra step of actually asking and when you say before, people have the resistance about eyeballs, I see more resistance on this. It's like people just can't hear it.
Amanda Daley: And this is the number one area I've seen when people go that extra relationship building and actually say, "Would you like to get on the phone for call with me?" And to me when we're looking back at the marketing model, 5k a month. Okay you want a client a week? How many discovery sessions? Maybe two discovery sessions a week. That's your job. It might not sound very sexy, but if you're working for me, your job when you get to your desk every day is to book me those two calls a week. And I do find people doing the marketing, and feel like they're being seen but they're not asking.
Kendra: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I see that a lot. And I see it with free opt-ins, I see it with all kinds of things. It's like they say it once and then they never say it again and people aren't even aware of that there's this option to take the next step. You've really got to have something there for your hot leads, so people who are like, they've seen your content, they like what you're doing, they like your personality, they want to buy, but they just don't know how and then they forget, they're gone.
Amanda Daley: Totally. And we are in business, the same plan I said yesterday I was talking to resistance, what was going on and of course it came up like, "Oh my family and friends might think I've been talk about my business too much." At some stage we've got to make peace with that, if you want to be in business, you're going to have to market. And I know that none of us necessarily got into health coaching to be marketers but to find the love for that I think, to find the creativity for that and the piece around it. God, the impact we could be having. And if we say we want to be helping others through our work, we can be doing that through our social and content we create all day, every day, if we truly do what everyone tells me, "I just want to help people." If you do, then go be of service with this content and getting visible and asking people, "Can I help you?" Because they're sitting at home, wanting to be helped.
Kendra: Yeah. And I love that you said creativity in marketing because I find marketing super creative, it's one of the only ways I feel like I'm creative because I don't have any other outlets for it. So I really enjoy it for that. And so I think you just got to find like, you know where your superpower is in terms of content creation and then go spread your message. Go help those people. Go give them value.
Amanda Daley: Absolutely. And we don't need big audiences. I know a lot of things out there talk about needing to build a big list I think you do if you're going to do an online program or something like that, but honestly we all have even just on our personal Facebook page or [inaudible 00:33:09] of things. We don't need big numbers to get two people on the phone a week, we just don't.
Kendra: No, we don't. And I love that and I talk about that a lot, especially these days because maybe 10 years ago, sure it was not that hard to build a massive email list and following because all these algorithms weren't in place and it wasn't as crowded and all this. But these days unless you have a big budget, it's really hard to do that. So it's really about having a quality lesson and just to give the audience some context. I've talked about this a bit before, but I think I had less than 2,500 people combined when I made my first six figures in business and that was across email, Instagram and Facebook. It wasn't that much. It's really not that much, I think anyone can do that.
Amanda Daley: Yes, yeah. And obviously the marketing pieces do need to start coming in of going back to meetings, back to the eyeballs. Even in my advanced mastermind still pretty much 80% is how do we get you seen by more? And one of my top tips there is how can you tap into someone else's existing audience of that [inaudible 00:34:08] can start from scratch and getting back to this, where are the clients, ask a genuine question, where are they? They're following Kendra. Okay, well how can we partner with Kendra? How can we get in front of Kendra's audience? I think we over complicate it, it is basically, can I be seen by my ideal client and then ask for the dance, so that step three and four.
Kendra: Yeah, and I love that you talk about collaboration because I think it maybe can come back to that scarcity mindset. The idea of there's too much competition, like what she does means that I don't get it as much, but it's like there's really room for everyone. There's so many people online and what makes you unique is really your personality and there's no one else who was a personality just like you. So we can collaborate, do this podcast together even though we have similar audiences and still benefit. Right?
Amanda Daley: Oh absolutely. You know, one of the things I've always been proud of in my stage one mastermind is I've never seen at least to my awareness, any sense of competition in there. But I definitely do see when people move on to the more advanced implementation stage that I have. By that level because obviously it takes a while to get your foundations and by year two of your business, I find it's the collaborations between them. Again, you don't need the whole world just a small group of women and I'm sure you have the same in yours, start sharing a podcast with each other and then get each other on as guests. You don't need to even know anyone else. And I see this work pretty well with Facebook live shows, for people starting up. I've got a beautiful woman who actually has a voice impediment and therefore was going to leave because she thought, "I can't do videos and I can't do content," and we set her up with a Facebook live show and she just interviews like all the other ladies in the mastermind. And she's in her element because she doesn't have to be the focus on her vocals for a full hour. And so the collaboration and there's just no need for a sense of competition and I think if anyone does feel that, that'd be a key thing. It's a sense of resistance too, I think, so.
Kendra: Yeah. Oh, I love that. That's such a cool story. Yeah. I mean, really, there is something for everyone and if people don't resonate with you, that's okay, they can go resonate with someone else. Like not everyone is meant for you. And that's okay. It's just like in real life, not everyone's going to like you, you can't be friends with everyone.
Amanda Daley: I remember a mentor saying to me once when I was getting a bit triggered by that, like so many new coaches and so many whatever, and she was like, "You don't want all those people. Amanda," and it really gave me a sense of, "Oh yeah, like we don't want every person in the world." It's like we just want our dream clients, just stay in your own lane. Like I said, get magnetic in your marketing, get really clear. This is where I want to work, get culture and boundaries in that and you don't need everyone. And my little joke too, paraphrasing what she said there, is you probably don't want to work with everyone anyway.
Kendra: Yeah, it's very true.
Amanda Daley: Let other people be the right coach for that person.
Kendra: That's awesome. And so that's number four. And that is, I guess the dance, to get people on the phone, right?
Amanda Daley: Basically. Yeah.
Kendra: All right.
Amanda Daley: So that leads me to step number five, soulful sales and systems. So I think most people are terrified of that sales call and it's definitely something I think, I don't want to quote wrong, but a number of the health coaching schools I believe still do teach something called a health history or something similar as a way of getting on getting someone to buy from you and a health history will not sell. There's a reason that there's a resistance to them. It's valuable information, I think it can be great in session one of your program or something like that, but a sales call, it's soulful when you don't coach, and this is backwards for people.
Amanda Daley: The minute that you coach, you're actually robbing someone of the opportunity, which is supposed to be a discovery of, am I ready to transform, and are you the coach for me? To me, that's the only energy we want in a discovery call. Is this client ready to transform and is this relationship right?
Amanda Daley: It's simple to say, I get it because we bring all our baggage and we need to pay our rent, we need to pay our this. So we bring our money stories to the call and then we bring our, am I good enough in. Often what can happen is we start coaching to prove ourselves, especially as new health coaches, or we start blushing off a whole lot of information to be expert. And we're making that about, "Oh, it's all about me. Am I good enough?" As opposed to a sales call should be 100% about the potential client, almost to the point where you don't even have a script, almost, I do have scripts. And is it true from the energetic process that I take someone through that I teach, which is allowing someone to go high into their dreams.
Amanda Daley: Most people live in what I call the gray zone, and they're too scared and they're trapped. Take someone on that journey, what do you really want? Have you even thought about it? And then take them low and be honest, what's this pain actually doing? Most people, again, shove it down, pretend it's not there and as we open up that we can see what's really going on for the person and if they want to transform. That in itself to me is one of the most valuable things you could gift someone. So you're still giving, you're still giving value. And then the simple question after that is, is now the right time? Are you willing to change? You want to know all of that before there's any conversation of your program or anything like that.
Amanda Daley: And this is hard for me to succinctly put in one point but ultimately what I'm saying is have a way of doing sales that will actually lead to someone making a commitment in themselves, not regurgitating what happened to their parents' health or their current stomach problems. We'll get there but really one of the key pain points... Back to sales messaging, right? Key pain points, key desired outcome. And do they want to go on that transformation? Is it with you?
Kendra: Yeah, I love that you really want to find the right people because if they're not committed and you sell them into your program, then they're not going to get results. You're going to be banging your head against the wall and it literally kills your soul when you have this client who you want to help and they can't help themselves. Right?
Amanda Daley: Yeah. And we've got to be really clear on that as well I think, that as health coaches, I think we all are in so much integrity of what we give. Most people will over-give but one of the biggest healing pieces of my journey was really understanding, that I can never make my client do that work. I cannot be responsible for that. Like in the early days of business coaching, myself and my assistant used to not sleep after a call. We're trying to work out Sally's issue, and why is Sally's business... And I really have come to a place of peace and I hope I can pass that to everyone sooner rather than later. As coaches, we're not meant to be God, we're not meant to be someone's savior, we're not meant to do the work for them and we want clients who want to change. It's part of that first call, if that's not there, why would you put yourself through that? It's going to loop you back to step one of feeling like a fraud and terrified of getting on coaching calls. Because of course, we've got to give everything and of course, we've got to do our best as a coach. But more often than not, we're actually sabotaging by trying to solve everything, especially on that first call instead of leaning back and seeing, "Hey, do you want to make a change?"
Kendra: Yeah, I love it. And I think I've started calling them... I'd tell people don't even call them sales calls, they're just qualifying calls or enrollment calls. You're just qualifying this person to see if they're going to be the right fit for your program and if you can actually help them. But I love what you said about, we're not their saviors. We can't save our clients, they have to save themselves, we're just here to guide them. And I think it's important to make that really clear that when we work together, I'm going to be giving you guidance, but you're only going to get the result if you actually do the work, right?
Amanda Daley: Totally. And not being afraid, once you are coaching. If someone's not getting the results, don't blame yourself, speak to it. Call it out, I mean in a loving way that, "Hey Sarah, how are you going so far? You know I've noticed that some of the pieces of homework that I've given you, you haven't necessarily taken action on. Do you want to go back and review why?" That is very different than sitting at home going, "Oh my God, Sarah's not losing weight." Well, why? The only reason can be that she's not taking action or don't take responsibility, and then lean in and say, "What else could we do here together?" You're going to be so much more connected in hearing what's needed, than if you're in your head going, "Oh my God, I'm not good enough, she's going to leave. She's going to..."
Amanda Daley: But again, I know it's easier said than done, start with a really soulful sales process and systems. The three systems that I always believe need to be part of that are, how to book calls, how to take payment, how to do a contract. And I think just by having those smart pieces set up in the background, then we can relax when, "Oh my God, the shock, someone actually wants to buy from me," the first client, and then we're like, "Oh, how do I do this?" If you can just have those there, you can feel supported, you can trust the process and to me too, there's an energetic flow in that. When your pipeline is set up, you can just, "Okay, let's get on the phone and I know what to do, if they're the right person for me."
Kendra: I love that. That's awesome. Okay, so let's just quickly review those steps. I'm like already like forgotten them. So let's go through them just so the audience remembers and then we'll let them know how they can get in touch with you.
Amanda Daley: Absolutely. So first step is mindset, specifically the three, the fraud, the scarcity, the low value for health coaches, and who you surround yourself with. So mindset, mindset, mindset. Step two is business model, getting really clear, how much do you want to make? How many clients is that going to take? How many hours a week? Where's that going to fit in your schedule? Does that fit for you and your values and your lifestyle? Step number three is all about those eyeballs. So identifying the ideal client and then every day, how can I be seen by more eyeballs, into step four and ask for the dance. So step four is really about asking, leaning in, having the conversations, not waiting for someone to engage with you, you're going to them. And then step five was the soulful sales and systems.
Kendra: Awesome, I love it. I think that's great. And I hope this helps everyone make 5k a month. And I just see in her notes that you have a freebie for our audience. Hey?
Amanda Daley: Yeah, we've actually set up a page for you. So @amandajdaley.com that's the letter J in the middle of my name there, AmandaJdaley.com/360, we have set up some of my top health coach goodies for your audience.
Kendra: Awesome. Thank you so much. And I guess so your website is just AmandaJdaley.com and then your social media was Amanda Jane Daley. So we'll put that all down in the show notes for everyone if you want to connect with Amanda and have her help you because, guess what? I think everyone needs a coach and mentor.
Amanda Daley: Absolutely. I love meeting any health coach. I'm so passionate about where this industry is meant to go, and any questions anyone's got or anything at all. I also have a Facebook group, Healthy Wealthy Society, which is where I mostly hang out. So I might mention that, because that's if anyone just wants to ask everyday questions about health coaching, or I know a lot of people probably aren't even in health coaching yet. We get a lot of people in there just wanting to check out the industry. So yeah, it's my favorite place to hang out.
Kendra: That's awesome, I actually think I'm in that group. I just really have not engaged in there in a while, but I think I'm in there.
Amanda Daley: I'll keep an eye out for you.
Kendra: Well thank you so much, that was super valuable. That's really, really good info for the audience. So definitely go follow Amanda, everyone. And thanks guys for listening. And we will be back in one week with our quick episode, our Biz Bomb series where we give you a super juicy tip for your business and then your brain explodes because it's so good. So we'll see you in a week and thanks for joining guys.
Imposter Syndrome is something that almost EVERYONE experiences. Kendra has, Christine has, and our guest, Tara Wagner has too. So while everyone experiences it (or at least 70% of people according to studies), the important thing is you have to OVERCOME it, especially if you want to succeed in your business.
Imposter Syndrome often has you struggling with yourself – questioning who you are, are you good enough, and all of these fears and doubts that may be holding you back from showing everyone what a kickass human being (and amazing health coach) that you really are!
The definition of Imposter Syndrome is this, it’s the outward appearance of having it all together, while inside you feel sick to your stomach because you think that you are a fraud. It’s you telling yourself "I just need one more certificate and then I can launch this business. Or I just need one more training, or I need a couple letters behind my name." That's imposter syndrome.
In this episode we discuss:
- the definition of imposter syndrome
- the connection between ego and impostor syndrome
- can imposter syndrome be taught to go away?
- can you have imposter syndrome in the comfort zone?
- strategies to help imposter syndrome
- emotions vs facts
- 80/20 rule – 80% mindset, 20% strategy
Imposter syndrome includes personal and spiritual development to overcome it. And if you look at any well-known business owner or anyone you admire, you will see that their success didn’t happen overnight and it didn’t happen with them sitting at the back of the room. In order to grow, in order to be successful, you have to develop yourself and dig up some shit to find out how your emotions are getting the best of you.
Tune into our new episode with Tara Wagner to learn more about imposter syndrome – and best yet, how to overcome it!
Tara Wagner is a Belief Breakthrough Coach for self-employed women barely surviving their business. She helps you identify and overcome your old habits – both practical, as well as emotional and mental – learn a better way of approaching the work/life/family juggling act, and gain confidence in your new role in your growing businesses
Get Tara’s freebie, How to Grow Your Business by Growing Yourself: https://xotara.us/b2b
Connect with Tara Wagner:
Connect with us on social:
Kendra: Hey guys, what's up? Welcome to the 360 Health Biz Podcast. It's me, it's Kendra and sadly it is just me today. Christine is off gallivanting the world as per use, and I actually don't even know where she is right now, but I suspect she might be in Bali or at least on her way there. She is not going to be with us today but that's okay because I have a pretty amazing guest joining me today to talk about impostor syndrome.
Which I think is a very relevant topic for you, the health coach or you. Whatever type of online coaching you're doing because this is something that I've experienced. I'm sure Christine has experienced that, and you guys are probably going to be coming up against this on a regular basis. It is normal, but there's also some things you can do to overcome it, and that is who my guest or what my guest is going to help us with today.
First things first, I got an awesome review on iTunes and I just wanted to quickly read that out because we love, love, love when you give us reviews. That's actually a fantastic way to support the podcast. This is from Simply Will and she says, "These ladies are our key," I'm not sure if Simply Will is he or she, so they, These ladies are wonderful, true heartfelt educators. They really want to help you with your own health and clients. I love listening to them."
Will, we love that you love listening. Thank you so much for the review guys. If you want to take two minutes out of your day and go leave us a five star review on iTunes, probably the best way to help the podcast get out to more people. If you want to support the show, it only takes two minutes. All right, so let's get into our guest today. I'm hanging out here with Tara Wagner.
Tara is a belief breakthrough coach for self-employed woman barely surviving their business. She helps you identify and overcome your old habits, both practical as well as emotional and mental. Learn a better way of approaching the work life, family, juggling act and gain confidence in your new role, in your growing business. Welcome Tara, thanks for being here.
Tara Wagner: Thank you. And it's pronounced Tara.
Kendra: I'm sorry. I better get that out of the way right away, so Tara.
Tara Wagner: It happens.
Kendra: I'm sure that happens.
Tara Wagner: Thank you so much. I am just absolutely loving you guys and this podcast. I'm really happy to be here and talking about probably the biggest elephant in the room that nobody likes to talk about, so just get really uncomfortable.
Kendra: How did you end up in this space? I would love to know how did you even end up here?
Tara Wagner: Yeah. This is a lifelong journey for me that I've probably started when I was in middle school. Where really I struggled so much with my own stuff, my own problems were pretty much all in my head. I was just struggling with who am I and am I enough, and all of these fears, all of these doubts. It led me through some really deep, dark years and I had to find tools that worked for me. It was this long process of just learning how to free myself, because anybody who's been there, they know it's exhausting to be in a hot mess. It's so much work.
Kendra: It is.
Tara Wagner: I spent years just learning how to develop myself with the underlying purpose or goal of being just being free. That is my biggest value, I just wanted to feel free. As I started doing that, I've been an entrepreneur for 20 years. I had another business. I struggled in that business so much because of my beliefs, but total blind spots; didn't see it, didn't understand why I was struggling. When I finally burned out, I sold that business.
I basically gave it away just to be done with it. With through a few years of just introspection, deep healing, deep understanding, so much of my identity was tied up in that. It was just this time of really learning and examining that had come out of that first business. During that time, this was when blogging was taking off. I started blogging just as a personal blog. It didn't actually blog a lot of my own personal stuff, but blogged other things that I was doing in my life.
As I was doing this inner work, my life was obviously starting to expand as well. Because when you start letting go of all of the should'ves and the have tos, and the who am Is, and all of that, you start to do things that nobody else is doing or that you really want to do. You're not held back by anything anymore. I started blogging about our life and I started blogging about our parenting, and how we were doing all these different things.
But it wasn't really sharing how did I get to the point where I could do things so differently? How do you let go of anger and frustration towards your kids so you can be a patient parent? How do you let go of the fear of what other people think so that you can ... At the time, I have my entire front yard was urban homestead, right? Everyone's like, "Aren't you worried about what the neighbors think?" That kind of stuff.
My blog slowly started to transform. Then we went through the recession like everyone else, my husband lost his job. We decided to take it as an opportunity and travel. That's when I had a lot of people coming to us like, "How are you doing this?" Not financially, how are you doing this? Not practically, how do you run an RV but like, "How are you living a life that you want to live without all of this here?"
I just started coaching people on it. I was coaching people through parenting. I was coaching people through lifestyle, but really very quickly what it ended up being was coaching people through their own beliefs. Through that, I pulled all my tools together and realized that, "I actually have a process. I actually have a thing that I do when I uncover a block, or a belief, or a challenge." I developed that more fully and I continued my own learning, and my own research, and testing things on clients over there.
I've been doing this for about 10 years now, and just developed a system or a process that works, that helps you to identify what is actually tripping you up. Then change it and rewrite it without all of the years of therapy and the, not to say anything bad about therapy. I've used it, many people need it. But sometimes it takes you in circles instead of going forward and I needed something that was going to, I need to just stop navel-gazing.
I was at the point, in one point of my journey where I was like, "I can dig and dig, and dig, and understand all of the deep seated problems, and where they all stemmed from." But at some point, you've got to stop the digging and you've got to start moving forward. I had to very quickly because it's so easy for me to dig and go deep, and stay deep. I had to learn a strategy that was faster than that or it was just too tempting to stay in my mark.
That's what I did and I just continue to do it, and I love it. It's one of the things that I have never gotten sick of doing and talking about; is personal development and spiritual development, and how our minds work, how our bodies relate to that and then what we can do to actually change what's not working for us.
Kendra: I love that and I totally know what you mean about going deep but not actually fixing the problem. I think sort of talk therapy for example, is really beneficial to maybe just even uncover that because so many of us are just unconscious, to begin with. We're not even aware. But I went through the talk therapy thing and it was super helpful.
I realized all these things about me, but I got to a point where I'm like, "Okay, I get it now. I get, I have these things, but I need them to be fixed. I need something that actually helps me unwind this and form different belief patterns, right?"
Tara Wagner: Right. Exactly. There's so much benefit. I think one of the biggest benefits of having a therapist or a counselor is a safe place to go to process, and to be heard. For somebody to call you out and be like, "Whoa, Whoa, where we're going right now is not helpful. Let's steer in this direction." But just that space, we're lacking that conscious space where we can really talk about these things without somebody looking at us like we're crazy.
Even though every single person deals with these things, thinks about these things, feels these things. It's universal across the board and yet, if we start to talk about them, it's like, "Oh, she's crazy. Ooh, what's wrong with her? Girl needs help." Oh yeah, we do.
Kendra: We do need it, it's fine. I only wonder what people think about me when I tell them I have three counselors. I have a whole team of counselors with all the crap going on in my head. But I think when it comes to business, what a lot of new coaches, especially health coaches come up against is how much they get in their own way. I don't think people realize how much of online business in general is mindset.
Sometimes I say 80%, I'm pulling that number out of my butt but I think it's a huge portion of it. It's like, "Sure, you can learn the funnels and the sales, and the marketing, and all that stuff. But if you don't deal with your mindset and your blocks, and your limiting beliefs, you will just continually prevent yourself from succeeding," correct?
Tara Wagner: Yeah. You're not the only one that says 80%, it's kind of the 80/20 rule, right? 80% of it is our mindset, 20% of it is our strategy. You need good strategy but if you don't feel solid behind that strategy, you can have the best strategy in the world for a funnel. But in the back of your mind, if you're thinking, "Who the hell am I? I don't belong here. Nobody should pay me. This is complete crap. What am I doing?"
All of that is going to come out in that strategy and so your strategy is just going to flop. It makes a huge difference and no, it's not the only thing we need to address, but it is the thing we need to make sure is solid because it's the foundation. Anything you're building, if you're building it on a rocky foundation or a wiggly foundation ... [inaudible 00:10:21] foundations wiggle, a shaky foundation, it's not going to be solid.
You're not going to have a solid business. That was me and my first business. I had a great skill. I had a good business plan. There were holes in it because of my mindset that I didn't notice and I had potential. I had a great marketplace, I had great marketing, I was doing really well.
But I kept stopping myself because of what was going on in the back of my mind that I didn't even want to become conscious of. Because it was so uncomfortable to look at those ideas of like, "Am I good enough or who the hell am I? Or all of those things." All of the opportunity was there but I couldn't reach out and grab it, because my head wasn't in the right place.
Kendra: Yeah. Absolutely. That makes so much sense and I think a lot of listeners are going to have [inaudible 00:11:16] moments as we go through what we're talking about today. But can you clarify to our listeners, we're talking about impostor syndrome, what is that like, how does that actually manifest?
Tara Wagner: Yeah. Impostor syndrome is the outward appearance of having it all together, while inside you feel sick to your stomach because you think that you are a fraud. It is literally the thing, here's a great example. I see this one the most. Women will say, "I just need one more certificate and then I can launch this business. Or I just need one more training, or I need a couple letters behind my name." That's imposter syndrome [inaudible 00:11:56].
It's usually a rock in our stomach. It's usually a constricting healing in our throat or our chest when we think about putting ourselves out there or talking about what we do to other people. If we think about going to a network events and we just have the shrinking feeling of like, "Oh my gosh, that's where all the real professionals are. I don't belong there." That's impostor syndrome.
But the most important thing is that; outwardly, we look bad ass. We look hot, our stuff looks good. Inwardly, we're the hot mess.
Kendra: Right. Yeah. That's such a great way to describe it. You described it perfectly, especially for health coaches because I see it all the time. They get their IIN certificate or ITN, or FDN, or whatever it is, which really is enough education to be successful. But then they're like, "Oh well, I should get this certification. I should get a certified in essential oils. Oh, I need to do a homeopathy."
They just end up with 10 different certifications, yet they haven't taken any training on business. They haven't put themselves out there or shown up, or really taken any sort of action in their business because they're just waiting. They think they continually need more knowledge. But what I like to say is, I think an expert is someone who just knows a little bit more than someone else, right?
Tara Wagner: Right. Absolutely. The thing that we really get to understand is that we can't get to that expert status without actually taking the path, and putting in the hours and the real life practice. You don't get to be the best cardiologists in the world unless you put in 10 or 20 years of trial and error, and research, and testing things, and listening to your patients, and really delving in deeply into your craft.
But that means paying patience from day one. You don't get to do all of that unless you have real patience. It's the same thing with coaching or I see it a lot in photography, anything like that. Where if you really want to be the expert, the only way to get there is to get out and start doing the things that will bring you to that expert status.
Kendra: Absolutely. Yeah. It's exactly true. The only thing that's ever going to make you feel good enough and that you actually know a topic really well, is actually just getting out there and doing it. But I'll say, if you've gone to IIN or FDN or whatever it is, you already have everything you need. You already know so much more than the average person, you are an expert. You're only going to go up from there, but not unless you actually do the work.
Tara Wagner: Absolutely. Because the thing is, if we just allow that thought in the back of our mind of like, "I'm not there yet, I'm not good enough yet," it'll start holding us back. We'll sit in the back of the room when we're at event, we won't speak up. When we have a thought or when we're ... If we're at a party and somebody's talking about needing something or having some challenge with something that we can solve, we won't speak up to it, right?
We won't go after big opportunities. We will feel that insecurity and will lack that confidence in our gifts, in our current abilities. Then because of that, therefore never develop them to their full potential. We end up staying small or we end up playing, wait, how did I say this before? We end up staying small because we're playing small, right? If you want to be bigger, you got to play bigger. That's the only way. My husband, he does CrossFit.
He doesn't get to this point where he can with these big heavy weights, by lifting the small weights. He gets there by, he started with the small weights and then he got the bigger weights, and the bigger weights, and the bigger ... That's the only way to really grow, is to pick up something that is too heavy for your muscles. Literally that's the way our muscles grow is like, "Oh, this is too heavy. I need to send more resources to this area."
It's the same thing in our business. We will not grow without getting uncomfortable and putting ourselves into situations that [cause quarrel 00:16:10].
Kendra: Yeah. Absolutely. Can you speak a little bit to maybe the connection between ego and impostor syndrome?
Tara Wagner: Oh, it's one and the same. Okay, let me get on my [inaudible 00:16:26] a little bit. Here's my thing of impostor syndrome. It is an inherently selfish and self-centered experience. Because it is our mind saying, "The only thing that matters is what other people think of me." For everybody, especially those that are in a health business, you're here to serve other people. It's no longer about you. You get to get yourself out of the way.
You get to be imperfect. You get to get criticized. Sometimes, you get to make terrible mistakes and embarrass yourself because it's not about you. For me, ultimately we're getting deep on this real fast.
Tara Wagner: For me, impostor syndrome, it's ego. It is you allowing yourself to be self-indulgent and self-centered because you are taking your eyes off of what actually matters. You're here to serve other people. You're here to make an impact. That means even humbly doing so, you get to show up just as you are. You may suck at it and that doesn't matter because you are here to serve other people, not yourself.
Kendra: Yeah. I think a lot of it is like this maybe self-protection, self-preservation thing, right? Because getting out there online is really uncomfortable. Putting your shit out to a bunch of strangers on the internet is weird. That's not normal. We're in this first generation of people who are actually doing this, right? It's uncomfortable and your ego, your self-preservation wants to protect you and it's like, "Don't do that. That's scary. Keep doing it if you feel like it's safe," right?
Tara Wagner: Absolutely. I love that you called it that because I really dislike the topic of self-sabotage, because our egos are never trying to sabotage us, ever. Our ego is trying to protect us and our ability to meet our needs. What impostor syndrome really is, is a desire to be loved, to be appreciated, to connect with other people. Those are very legitimate needs. Those needs should not go anywhere and they're not going to go anywhere.
All impostor syndrome is, is a belief that those needs are going to be threatened if we show up to do this thing that we worry that we're not quite good enough for. That's all it is. It's a self-protection mechanisms to make sure that we can continue to meet our needs. One of the strategies that people really need to practice when it comes to overcoming impostor syndrome is look at, "What are my needs right now?"
Because emotions, the only thing emotions are, are signals of our needs. Unhealthy or somebody might call negative emotions, are signals of unmet needs or needs that are being threatened. Positive emotions are signals of needs that are being met. If we're feeling anxious, if we're feeling afraid, all that's telling us is, "I have a need that either is not being met or that is being threatened right now or I perceive as being threatened right now."
If we can identify what that need is and focus on meeting that need, a lot of times the fear will go away with it. Our mind just wants to know that we're not ignoring these other aspects that are really important to us.
Kendra: Yeah. Do you think with impostor syndrome, is that something that you can coach your clients to not have it all and go away, or is it something that you feel will continually show its head as time goes on, but you just have better strategies to actually deal with it?
Tara Wagner: It varies. I have seen it completely go away for some people. For most people, that's not the case. For most people, it just is a different experience. Instead of it being this, "Oh my gosh, what's everybody thinking of me? I'm terrified, I can't move. I'm paralyzed." Instead of it being that it's like, "Oh, there's that old friend again, he hi by and move on." It's just, Oh what's the word I'm looking for?
It's just weakens, right? It's lost its emotional charge. It's there but it doesn't have the same impact. Over time, depending on how much energy we put into cultivating the alternative, we can get to the point where it never comes up or rarely comes up. But that does take a lot of practice and a lot of focus.
Kendra: Yeah. I agree. I was having a conversation with a coach not that long ago and I was just telling her, because she's just like, "Well, I just need to do this and that I won't be scared." I'm like, "Do you realize that the fear doesn't really go away? Every time you do something new and you launch a new program, or a new service, or you make a pivot in your business, you're going to experience fear. It doesn't actually go away. You just get to the point where it doesn't hold you back from taking action."
She was like, "Oh, I thought it just went away." I'm like, "No, everyone has fear. Doing something different is always scary, but it's not like it just goes away for any of these mindset blocks we probably come across. It's about actively working on them regularly," right?
Tara Wagner: I think what happens when you do get to the point where you're really practice and you're really competent in something, what happens is that the fear shifts. You don't perceive it as fear anymore. You have the same sensations but it's not fear behind it, it's excitement, right? Because they're so closely related in the body. The only difference is, what's the thought like pushing that sensation out.
That's really what happens. Before this podcast, I felt the same thing. I was like, "Ooh, I got some butterflies. Oh okay, my throat is tightening up a little bit." That's just my signal of, "Oh, I'm doing something fun. I'm doing something good." Because if I'm not feeling that, I'm not challenging myself, I'm not putting myself out there. But now instead of 10, 15 years ago, that would've been like, "Oh my gosh, I can't do this. My throat's going to close up, I'm not going to be able to speak. I'm going to make a fool out of myself."
All of those thoughts would have come with that sensation. Now my automatic habit when that sensation comes up is, "All right, take a deep breath. Let's center ourselves. Let's remind ourselves why we're here, who are we here to serve? What are we about?" And it shifts. That sensation where it would have lasted, honestly, I probably would've felt it like three days prior to the interview and then just been sick all the way through it.
Now it's like 30 seconds and then it just shifts right back into like, "Where are we going from here?" It's just an experience and you don't have the meaning that we applied to it. Like, "Oh man, do we love to apply meetings to things that aren't always that meaningful."
Kendra: Yeah. So true.
Tara Wagner: You mentioned earlier too that, oh-
Kendra: Go ahead.
Tara Wagner: You mentioned earlier that it was so common. One of the things that I like to point out to people is, it's incredibly common. The research that's been done on it says that probably about 70% of people deal with it at some point. Then it comes up any time you are doing something new and big, which basically means if you're doing something of value. What I try to remind people is that, the 30% of people who aren't experiencing this are probably ... They're not superhuman person who just has it all together.
They're probably the portion of the population who are calling it in. They don't have big goals, that are not pushing their boundaries. They're not getting outside their comfort zone. They not trying to make a difference. They're waking up, going to work, coming back, watching TV, going to bed, repeating, right? These are people who are in a comfortable place. The reason why it is so prevalent amongst entrepreneurs is because you are constantly pushing at that boundary, you're constantly putting yourself into a new position.
It's like once you make it to five figures, then you're pushing six. When she make it to six, she's like, "Can I do multiple six." You're always, always, always expanding, which I think is a really good thing. There's three things in life that will grow you. I call them people growing machines. One of them is marriage, the second one is parenting and the third one is owning your own business. All of those will require you to not get comfortable.
You have to continue trying new things, put yourself into new situations. As soon as you have it figured out, something changes. It's just the nature of what we're doing. It's important to understand that if you're feeling it, it means you're on the right track. Because it's the high achievers that feel it the most. All of the research will show that every high achiever will feel impostor syndrome.
I always tell people, "Congratulations. You're in good company. That means you're actually doing something about you."
Kendra: Yeah. Oh, I love that. That's so interesting. Yeah, speaking to the people who are living inside their comfort zone, there's nothing wrong with that. A lot of people, they just put comfort and security really hard values, and I hear your dog. That's totally okay and that's fine, but if you want to have a business, you can't run an online business while just hanging out in your comfort zone.
It just doesn't happen. It's really important to realize that you have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable.
Tara Wagner: Exactly. Those are my thoughts, exactly. We get to ... Okay.
Kendra: Cute dog.
Tara Wagner: She's just a menace. She's just been such anxious little girl since our other one passed.
Kendra: Oh, that's sad. Oh, oh.
Tara Wagner: Now she's happy. She's on my lap.
Kendra: That's good. We are dog friendly here on the Health Biz Podcast.
Tara Wagner: I'm telling you, it's like a toddler. You can leave them home alone but they're just as needy sometimes.
Kendra: So true. I would totally think that would be true.
Tara Wagner: Yeah.
Kendra: All right. Let's talk about some strategies because I think now we've shown the audience that what they might be feeling and now we've given it a name. Because they've probably experienced those things, but maybe they don't know that it's a thing. It's impostor syndrome and that's something that we all go through, especially as high achievers.
When you coach people, what type are you getting doing visualizations, are you reframing beliefs, are you doing meditation stuff, what does that look like?
Tara Wagner: When I'm working one-on-one with somebody, it's going to be very unique to their personality and what really speaks to them. But when I'm talking about it like this, there's a few things that I like to teach. The first thing is that, in order to do any of this work, we have to detach our emotions from the work you're about to do. It's very important to remember that feelings are not facts.
We really love to glorify them in our culture. We really love to talk about them as though they're just so amazing. They are important, but they are not as important as we often say they are. The reason that we need to detach them is, because as you're going into impostor syndrome, you're going to come up against some stuff that does not feel good.
It's important to take a stance of non-attachment in that, so being able to observe the feelings and not believe the feelings, right? Because otherwise what happens as we start digging into this stuff, we hit on something that feels terrible. Then we just wallow in it and we feel terrible, and we quit our business. Instead of, "Okay, I'm noticing this feeling and what's that telling me about my deeds, how do I want to approach this, oh, isn't that interesting?"
Kind of going into it like a curious observer and just watching what comes up as it comes up. We really need to look at this from a more logical place, because impostor syndrome is so emotional. It's so untrue and so bringing in that logical mind is really important. That's always the first step of, just mentally prepare yourself. I know it's not a very practical step.
Which is kind of mentally prepare yourself of like, "Okay, some stuff is going to come up, how do I want to deal with that when it comes up? What do I want to say to myself or remind myself when I start to feel maybe some shame or anything like that, that might come up as I'm digging into this process?" That's always the first one, to kind of set that intention of, "I'm in control here. My emotions don't get to tell me what we're doing."
Kendra: Yeah. I love that because it's like, just because you think it doesn't mean it's true.
Tara Wagner: Absolutely. Amen. Hallelujah. I need it on a t-shirts and a tattoo, and a business card to pass around to a lot of people I know.
Kendra: Yeah. It's so true.
Tara Wagner: I'd like to coach people that we know.
Kendra: Yeah. I love that and that was one of the first things I learned when I started doing talk therapy. I was like, "Oh, just because I feel this and it's having this effect on my, physically and emotionally doesn't mean it's actually a true story." A lot of times it was not a true story. It was just some random story I had created in my head that wasn't actually true.
Tara Wagner: Exactly. It gets imprinted because of a situation or maybe messages that we just repeatedly heard. But that doesn't make it real, especially when most of those messages were created from the mind of a child. It didn't have all the understanding. They didn't understand the difference between I did a bad thing and I'm a bad person. We take in these messages from a really limited and sometimes worked perception or perspective.
Then we just go about believing that they're true, because the mind is actually designed to reinforce its own beliefs. Everything that has seeds, it will say, "Oh that, I'm going to use this as a way to reinforce my belief." If it sees something to the alternative, if it sees something that contradicts its belief, it'll just call that the exception to the rule. Like, "Oh, that's just that one."
It's like if somebody gives you a compliment and you're like, "Oh no, but I really suck. I was good at that, but I really actually suck at this," right? That's just what your mind does. It will hold on to its belief and so you just continue to believe that belief that you believe it. We never questioned that because we're not taught to question our thoughts and our emotions.
A lot of times, we're either taught to ignore our emotions or we're taught to glorify them. There's no middle healthy ground of, yes, our emotions are signals that we need to listen to, but we need to make sure that they're not running the show.
Kendra: Yeah. Something came to mind when you were saying that and I think this is a quote from maybe Louise Hay. That was the first sort of mindset book. It's called, You Can Heal Your Life. It was the first mind that really started to make me realize that I was manifesting some certain things that I might say, I was having the same experience overall with dating and relationships.
I just couldn't find one and I eventually realized that it was me perpetuating that situation. I think what she said is that, "Your beliefs form your reality and then your reality confirms your belief." It just this vicious cycle, if you continue to say, "There is no men in this town, I'll never find a relationship. I'm never going to find someone to love. I'm never going to find someone to settle down with."
I'm just going to keep having that experience. Then that's just going to reinforce what I believe about relationships, right?
Tara Wagner: Because how can we see anything if we're wearing a blue tinted glasses? Everything we're seeing is going to be blue. How could it be anything other than that until we realize, "Oh, I've got these blue tinted glasses on me, let me take these off and then see what it looks like."
Tara Wagner: It's, how could it be any other way, that's just the mechanisms of the brain. That's just how your mind works. It's not a bad thing, it's a little outdated and it doesn't grow with us.
Kendra: Yeah. Exactly. There was one belief that I come up all the time and it's just so funny because I get people saying, "I can't raise my prices because people in this area can't pay that." I'm like, "Do you realize that's just your perception, you actually have not seen into those people's bank accounts. You have no idea what they can and can't afford. That's just something you're telling yourself. You're telling me in this whole city of 200,000 people, that you can't find 50 people to pay for your services? Think about that."
Tara Wagner: Exactly. Now if you live in a town of 100 and it's in the middle of a low income, sure, I'll give you that.
Kendra: Yeah. Totally.
Tara Wagner: But you're right, the majority of people are surrounded by opportunity. I was in my business, right, but you just can't see because you can't see past your own nose, really.
Tara Wagner: Yeah. That first step is really about setting that intention. The second step is about digging into the experience of impostor syndrome itself. What I tend to tell people to do is journal about it. The reason that I like pens and paper journaling is it slows you down enough, that you can actually get into more of the unconscious or even just the less conscious, right? Not necessarily unconscious, but things that we can zoom my life, we're just typing answers out.
Asking ourselves the questions of, "What was the situation where I was experiencing this, or what situation am I afraid of that might bring this up? What are the thoughts around that situation? How do I feel, how does my body feel in those situations? What are my beliefs or my worries, right?" Because sometimes the beliefs are completely unconscious. We might really be aware of them and we might be completely unaware of them, but the worries not so much and that it's often really closely related to the beliefs.
What am I worrying about is going to happen. For me, I always had this thought in the back of my mind. I don't know where this image came from, but this is just the way the brain works. I pictured people with pitchforks running me out of town, I have no idea why. I live in a big city, I must've seen something somewhere as a child. I have no idea.
Kendra: It's funny.
Tara Wagner: But impostor syndrome, it looked like a crowd of angry people, maybe with pitchforks or maybe just with this, but they were just charging me out of town, that's what it was for me. Spend some time, really understand the entire experience that you're having around it. Oftentimes, you're going to see some things come up that you weren't even aware of. Many times, not always, at least a layer of that impostor syndrome will fall away or it'll get a little bit lighter just through the awareness of it.
You'll have kind of an aha moment or you'll realize how silly it is to think people with pitchforks are going to come after you, and you can talk yourself down from the ledge a little bit. Then from there, it's really about looking at the impact that it's had on you. I will take people through some exercises and generally I will have people do this on their own. Because if we have somebody watching us during this process, what will end up happening is, we'll filter.
I would never have told anybody 10 years ago about people with pitchforks. I barely could admit it to myself, I'm not going to tell someone else even if it was a therapist or a coach. Just taking the time to look at these things yourself and look at, "What impact has this had on me, where would I be in my life right now if I didn't deal with this?" Now, this doesn't mean that where you are right now isn't good enough.
If I look at it, I'm like, "Well gosh, I would've probably still been in my other business and I probably would've scaled that, and kind of glad that I didn't do that." That's not the point though. The point is to realize just how much further I could've been as a person or in my own personal goals if I didn't have this thing just dogging me all the time telling me, "I'm not good enough, I'm not good enough," and constantly holding me back.
Because for most people, impostor syndrome looks like going 70% of the way, right? Never really giving it your all and then being able to blame that when you don't actually experience success. "Well, I didn't do this. I didn't do that. I could've done it, but didn't." It keeps us in that safe comfort zone, right? Really looking at those things and looking at how is this causing you harm, how is it trying to keep you safe but really keeping you from the things that you've wanted.
Where could you have been in your life at this point if you had dealt with this five years from now? This is a little bit of a painful step for people. I actually will tell people, "If you don't know that you can do this objectively, if you really think that it might spiral you down a little bit, don't do it." It's not a necessary step but I find that it helps to create the motivation to stop ignoring the problem, right?
Because then it's like, "You know what, am I going to allow the next five years?" There's a difference between living five years and living the same year five times, which one am I going to allow? "Do I still want to be dealing with this in five years or do I want to really confront this?" They said, "Take it head on and change it." Hopefully the answer is, yes.
Kendra: Yeah. I love that because I think pain is a big motivator, right? People make decisions and take action based on emotion more than they do anything else. For me when I started my business, I just had a knee injury, I was working in forestry. I was trying to be a professional skier, all of which I needed my knee for. I was like, "I need to do something else," so I started an online business and it was terrifying.
But the fear of, "If I don't do this, I'm not going to have a job. I'm going to have to move back to the city, from the beautiful small towns that they live in because there's no jobs here," right? That pain was such a big motivator for me and so I think it can be a really good motivator. But you're right, people have to be okay with going into a dark place.
Tara Wagner: Yeah. It's not appropriate for everybody. There's been times in my life where that was not what I needed to do, and so have a level of self-awareness of like, "Is this going to be helpful for me?" But don't shy away from it. We live in a world right now that is all about fluffy mindset work and like, "Let's stroke the ego and make ourselves feel good." That's not real mindset work.
Real mindset work is to look at all sides of it and develop ourselves even when it's tough, even when it's messy, even when we really don't want to get up early and meditate. It's about doing the things that don't necessarily always feel great. Again, we don't want to wallow in it. Feelings aren't facts, but we do want to use the mechanisms in our brain. There's two things that motivate us, pain and pleasure.
When it boils down to it, we're just big giant mammals and it's pain and pleasure, and so use both of them, right? The next thing that I'll have people do is look at, where might you be without this, what could be created, what might happen? Again, this is the same thing. Some people will avoid this question because it's too scary. That's okay, take the steps that you can take and be okay with that.
If you can't take the big giant leap forward, pull a Bill Murray, take the little tiny baby steps and then guess what? If you're hiking up a mountain, right, when you get halfway up, the second half doesn't look that far away anymore. It doesn't feel that big and scary. Take the step that feels okay now and be at peace with that, and come back to the next step when you're ready to come back to the next step.
If that's six weeks from now or six months from now, or two years from now ... I hate to break it to you but you're never going to stop growing and you're never going to get there in this lifetime. The whole point is to just do this work. So just do the work and make peace with the fact that you're not going to have it all together. None of us do, we like to look like we do on Instagram.
Kendra: Absolutely. I love that analogy because I'm a crazy mountain woman. It's so true, when I hike mountains where you're at the bottom and you're like, "Holy fuck, that is a long way off." But you gain elevations so quickly, even when you're hiking super slow. All that matters is that you're putting one foot in front of the other and you're moving forward.
Tara Wagner: Yeah. If I were to stand at the bottom of a staircase and be like, "I need to get to that top step in one stretch," I'm going to hurt myself, right? But if I get to the first step and I'm like, "Oh, that's a little closer and that's a little closer, and that's a little closer," but we don't do that. We're living in a culture right now of instant gratification and so if you don't get there overnight, we think that we're failures.
I would encourage you to look at any successful person that you admire and find them in a podcast, in a book, in a blog post, in an interview talking about their journey and their mistakes, and how long it took them to create that overnight success. Because it's just not real. It's just a fabrication of our current media right now, and it's not intentional.
It's just the way that things look and the way our brains perceive them. It's doing more harm than good if we're not paying attention to it.
Kendra: Yeah. I think comparison is a really, we all do it. It happens and [inaudible 00:42:59] easy when you're new. You're like, "I'll have health coaches look at my business," and they're like, "You put out so much content. It's crazy, I just don't know how you do that." I'm like, "Yeah, because I have a whole team. The only thing I do and my business now is create content, my team runs the rest of the business for me."
Four years ago, I was doing everything so I wasn't everywhere and I was struggling to get content out. It's just like you can't compare your business to someone else's who's at a different place in their journey. Nobody really blows up overnight, I don't think that happens. Maybe it's happened to the odd person, but it's like they [inaudible 00:43:34] the exception, the way up.
Tara Wagner: If it happened to that odd person, were they able to sustain it?
Tara Wagner: Because most of the time, I think of this all the time, I'm like, "Would I be ready if Oprah called?" I don't know where I heard that question. It wasn't my question, heard it somewhere else. But I'm like, "Oh, snap. No, I wouldn't." Then my next question is, "Okay, what would take me one step closer to being ready when Oprah called?" Because the truth is, that kind of success you've got to build up to, it's like the muscles in the gym, right?
You can't go in and lift a 400 pound weight without putting in some years of practice to get to the point where you can sustain that type of success. It's the same with our business. I know that people hear this all the time, "Don't compare your beginning to someone else's middle or end." But what I want people to do when they are doing that, to keep it practical. Because it's not very helpful to say don't compare, because our brains are actually designed to compare.
We're going to compare, we're not going to stop it. Compare better. If there's somebody in your industry that you admire, you love their business, you love what they're doing and you want to do what they're doing, scroll back on their Instagram feed to when they started and compare, "Okay, what were they doing then and what am I doing, did this work for them? Where did they really start to gain traction and what were they doing around that time?"
Learn from those things, but learn from their beginning. Actually do the work to compare yourself to the right place in their trajectory.
Kendra: I agree.
Tara Wagner: Because in 10 years, they're going to now be 20 years ahead of you. You're going to always feel like you're chasing something, instead of just learning the things that you need to learn to build the business that you want to build.
Kendra: Yeah. I love that actually. That's a really good idea because yeah, it's true. We do compare ourselves regardless, but we're all different people and we're all in different places. We should use comparison maybe as a tool to grow or as [crosstalk 00:45:33] right?
Tara Wagner: Leverage it. It's going to happen, you're going to compare so learn how to do it in a healthy way. I actually have a whole video on this, on YouTube of, I think it's called how to stop comparing. But really it's about how to do it better, how to make sure that you're doing it in a healthy way. One of those ways might be, put some freaking blinders on, then subscribe from these people.
It's just not necessary and you're losing your voice trying to emulate someone else's. But when you do compare and do so when you're feeling healthy, right? We all have days when the last place we should be is on Instagram, looking at our competitor's feed. Then we have our days where we're like, "We got our shit together, we're feeling good, we can do this."
Use those moods to do that research and learn what worked for them and how can I apply this to my business. Leverage what's going to naturally happen in our brains to benefit you, versus harm you.
Kendra: Right. I love that. What would you say is one thing, one small step that our listeners could do today to maybe help with this situation with impostor syndrome?
Tara Wagner: It's not a small step. It's probably the most important step and that is; practice the shit out of it. Everybody wants to say, "Oh, that's not me. I'm just not good on Facebook live, that's just not who I am. I'm not a public speaker. I'm an introvert." I'm sorry, I'm going to lay down some tough love here. Introvert does not mean social anxiety. Introvert does not mean shy. Introvert does not mean you can't run your business.
Introvert does not mean you cannot be a great speaker. Introvert means after you do those things, you need to go rest because you're tired. You just gave all your energy away. That's what introvert means. We need to practice the mindset that we want to emulate because all of our mindsets, whether it's impostor syndrome or some other fear, or overwhelm, or whatever it might be, all they are is habits. You're not faking it till you make it, you're practicing a new habit until you develop it.
That's all it is. Outline literally, "What would I do without impostor syndrome? If I loved and approved to myself, even though I had gaps; skill gaps, experience gaps. Experience gaps, things that I'm not happy with. Even if I had those things, but I still liked myself. I still knew I was in the right place, doing the right thing at the right time, what would I do? What would I say? How would I show up? How would I hold my body? What would the expression on my face look like?"
Then practice that. Practice it in your bathroom, practice it before you get on a call. Practice it before you go to a networking event. Practice it before you get on an airplane. Literally practice who you want to be. Because who you are right now is only that, because you've done decades of practice. Thankfully, it doesn't take decades of practice to change it around, it might just take a few conscious efforts for you to really start seeing that traction.
But that is the most important thing. Mindset work really truly, does not happen in your mind. It happens when you hit pavement, when you start putting it into real life. If you're not doing that, you're not going to see changes. You can journal, you can meditate. I'm a big meditator, don't get me wrong. But if you're meditating to change your personality or to grow as a person, it's not going to happen until you practice those things.
Your body needs to experience it for your mind to finally fully get it. There's no other way around. I wish there was, I wish I could make it easier. It's going to be awkward and you're going to hate it, but that's why you practice in your bathroom first. Then you slowly just [intro 00:49:35] way into the next little step.
Kendra: Yeah. I love that. I love the idea of practicing for who you want to be. I noticed actually, just sometimes there's a small things that you can do too. I noticed that I became way more confident when I stopped working in front of my desk in my pajamas. Every day I get up, I make myself look nice. Nice, like I'm going to a job. At the end of the day, I clean off my desk, I wipe it down, I clean the office.
I make everything look professional and I get up like I'm going to a real job every day. Because before, I used to just hang up my pajamas in bathroom all day. I'm like, "That didn't work for me."
Tara Wagner: It's so true because, again, what our body does, our mind is interpreting. If we're showing up in our PJ's and there's nothing wrong with that. I've had years of working in my PJ's. I got a lot done, I created some success and it was awesome. But there will come a time in everybody's business where you'll notice that what got you here, won't get you there, right? You'll have to make some sort of shift and I had the same shift.
There's something magical about putting on your best pair of shoes when you're just going into your home office. You step into bad-ass mode, like, "I've got my boots on, we're going to kick some butt today." It's the same as, if you just start smiling, right? It changes the way that you feel. What we do affects how we show up. Absolutely, take a shower, do your hair, do your makeup. It doesn't have to be like the full thing.
But if you're showing up as your best damn self, if you were really owning what you do, who you are, how you do it, what would that look like? Maybe that is yoga pants, rock on but do it consciously. Consciously create that mindset because what's happening right now is, the mindsets getting created. Everything we do is created in the mindset. But most of the time it's just unconscious. It's haphazard, it's kind of thrown together and it's usually not very helpful.
Kendra: Yeah. I totally agree. I love that. When I work with people I'm always like, "Tell me what your perfect work day looks like. What are you doing, what do you do when you get up in the morning, what types of appointments do you have?" It seems to be a really hard question for people to answer, because they're not even really sure what, maybe even they want that to look like.
Tara Wagner: Yes. Or don't even know what it could look like. I remember that question being asked of me and it took me years to be able to create my ideal routine. It really happened because of trial and error, like, "Well, let me just start with this and see how that works. Oh, you know what? This is really causing a problem. Let me shift that." Again, these things take time, there's no overnight success in our morning routines either.
But there's just something powerful about consciously designing what we want to live, what we want to experience. Like I said, it's not easy. I think that it can be easy but it's probably not going to be for most people, because we're not very enlightened beings and so we're going to bring all of our challenges into it. That's what makes it not easy. But if we can just make peace with that, the process starts to unfold and it gets easier. Even though we're doing all this hard work, it just doesn't feel the same way anymore.
It doesn't feel as hard. It's just like going to the gym. You don't love it at first but you keep going because you know you need it. After a while, you want to go, you crave it. You still love it, like, "I will still rather be in bed at 4:30 in the morning," but I get up and I meditate because I know I'm going to feel good later. It's the same thing, we put in the work now for the benefits down the road.
Kendra: Yeah. I just really love when people realize that they can create and design their own lives in whichever way that they want to. We see so many people in victim mode who think everything's just happening to them, and I can see that in someone and just feel sad because I'm just man-like. If they just took personal responsibility and started being aware of how they were creating their own experience, they could have their dream life, right?
Tara Wagner: Yeah. Exactly. That really brings it back to that value of freedom for me. That's really where I was, of just feeling trapped to my own thoughts and emotions and so many people don't realize they're even trapped. That is the one thing. If I can leave one message on this world when I die, it's that, it's up to you what you perceive 100%. I'm not even talking about law of attraction and attracting what you desire or anything like that.
I'm talking about just basic brain mechanics. What you focus on is how you feel. You can literally create pretty much any personality you want, any outcome you want, if you're willing to put in the work and do it. If there's something in your life that you don't like, you can change it. If you're willing to do the work now, that work might be easy for some people and hard for other people based on where you're starting.
But it's still ultimately a choice. If it's not serving you, if it's not serving other people, when are you going to let it go?
Kendra: Yeah. Totally. Oh, love it. I love it. Well, can you let us know, Tara, how listeners can connect with you and learn more from you if they wanted to do some of this work?
Tara Wagner: Absolutely. I actually have a workbook that I put together that you guys are welcome to have. If you go to xoTara.us/isworkbook, so impostor syndrome workbook, what I've actually done is take in and broken down eight steps. Some of which we've talked about today, some of which we haven't, that people can walk through to start this process. Really in a powerful way, I really tried to put some real coaching in there.
I tell people all the time, "I'm a tough coach, not a fluff coach." I didn't put a lot of fluff in there. It's real practical, tangible steps to really give people some guidance on like, "What can I do with this, how can I really overcome this?" It's xoTara.us/isworkbook. They can download that for free. You can find me on YouTube @TaraWagner and I do weekly coaching videos there, so lots of practical, tangible stuff.
I tried to keep it really down to earth because I know how frustrating it is to talk about mindset and then walk away and go, "But how do I do that?" Then Instagram @TaraWagner, as well.
Kendra: Cool. Yeah. We will make sure to link to all of that in the show notes. I was just creeping on your YouTube channel. It looks like you've got lots of great videos there. I'm a big fan of YouTube so I was like, "Yeah."
Tara Wagner: You do?
Kendra: Awesome. Well thank you so much, Tara, and thank you to all our listeners. We appreciate you hanging out with us and having this very uncomfortable, but hopefully enlightening conversation. Make sure to connect with Tara if you are noticing that in yourself. I'm sure she has lots of fantastic tips in her free workbook. I will see you guys in a week from now and in two weeks from now, hopefully it will be me with my compadre, Christine again. Hopefully she'll be back from gallivanting the world. Thank you so much guys, and I'll see you guys in the next episode.