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5 Reasons Why Your Lead Magnet Isn’t Converting



A lead magnet is often called many things - freebie, free gift, free offer, opt-in. Whatever you want to call it, the purpose of a lead magnet is to get people on your email list and lead them into a sale. A lead magnet comes in many forms – it can be a link or button that leads people somewhere to fill out their information, it can be a download when you subscribe to your newsletter,  it can be a contest, a free gift, a web series, a video…the list goes on and on. In today’s episode, we provide 5 reasons why your lead magnet may not be converting and what you can do to change that.

So here they are:

Number one: Your lead magnet is too much…as in it’s too difficult to understand or too long that people lose interest. 

Number two: Nobody knows about it because you don't talk about it. Like we have said many times over…you can’t put a sign up and expect people to come. Just like everything else in starting a new business, it requires promotion and needs to be talked about repeatedly. When YOU get sick of talking about it, that means you’ve talked about it enough.

Number three: Your lead magnet has nothing to do with how you serve people or what you sell. An example of this would be you help women with thyroid concerns but your lead magnet is a healthy food challenge that has nothing to do with the thyroid. There's ZERO connection there.

 Number four: Your landing page is just bad. There's really no excuse to have a bad landing page these days because you can get so many templates and programs now to make an eye-catching landing page. Here is what your landing page SHOULD NOT include: unnecessary fillers or fluff. It should be about your free gift, download or whatever you’re giving away. And that’s it. And it MUST be mobile friendly.

Number five: The content isn’t valuable -  It's just fluff and doesn’t educate or inspire the viewer. OR you aren’t giving them enough information to draw them in. If all you’re saying is “this is my lead magnet – sign up”…you can probably guess how many people are going to sign up. (The answer is zero.) You need to warm people up with the really good valuable content and have them wanting more…which is when they would be interested in the lead magnet!

So how do you NOT do these things and put out a kickass lead magnet? We provide so great suggestions in the episode so you’ll have to listen to find out!

Be sure to follow us on social media were we provide a gold mine of advice on lead magnets, social media marketing & other business tips.

Say hi on social: 
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Kendra: Yo. Yo, yo. What's up? 360 Health Biz peeps, It is your girl. It is Kendra Perry, and I am so stoked for this episode of the 360 Health Biz podcast, as always [inaudible 00:00:15] and I am with Christine today, my business bestie and deliciously sexy cohost, who looks like she's in her lingerie, right now, so definitely check- [crosstalk 00:00:22]

Christine: I kind of am. It was too hot. I just took massive woolen over. It's starting to get Fall and crispy cold, but then it's super hot. I don't know. It's weird.

Kendra: It's weird, but you look hot, and so guys, check us out on YouTube if you want to see how hot Christine is now.

Christine: With any means necessary we'll get you there.

Kendra: We have a great topic, as always, for you guys today. We're going to be talking about lead magnets, and for some of you guys, you might know what that is and maybe feel frustrated with it. Then, for maybe some of you newer people out there, you're like, "Well, what the fuck is a lead magnet?" 
It's very important. You definitely need one in your business. We're going to talk today about why your lead magnet isn't converting, so for those of you who are like, "I don't know what you're talking about, Kendra," we're going to tell you what a lead magnet is. We're going to tell you what does converting mean. We're going to go into that today and give you five reasons why your lead magnet isn't leading to your bottom line.
This is going to be juicy, as always. You know, we like to dish out the juice, so that's what we're doing today. 
Oh my gosh. I think that I think I'm too funny, but anyways. [inaudible 00:01:24]

Christine: I find you hilarious.

Kendra: Christine has a... Actually, we have a review we want to read, and we actually have a very special shout-out for who appears to be our biggest fan at the moment, so we just want to make sure that he knows that we love her and we appreciate her, so Christine, why don't you take it away and read those reviews and do that shout-out.

Christine: Yup, so we have our first review that we want to read, and it's by Biz Underway, and she or he says, I'm not sure, as an FDN, this podcast is giving me the specific information I need to develop my online business presence. It's an exhalation of relief.
Biz Underway, we totally get you, and thank you so much for that review. We really appreciate it and are so happy that we're able to help.
The other person that we love to [inaudible 00:02:12] and that always makes my day, so I really want to say thank you is Angela Brown, so she's A-N-G, or ang_brownholistichealth on Instagram and she always shares our stories on her feed, it's super nice. Thank you so, so much. We totally appreciate you and love you lots.

Kendra: Love you. We appreciate our fans, and guys, If you want to get a shout-out like Angela, all you need to do is take a screenshot of this episode when you're listening, share it to your Instagram stories. Mention 360 Health Biz podcast, and then we will tell you we love you. We will throw those emoji hearts your way.

Christine: Laughing emojicons, you know, like hearts, stars emoji-

Kendra: Oh, totally.

Christine: All on your way.
All right. Let's get going. I think one of the first things is, the first point that we have is what is a lead magnet? I just want to get the vocabulary out there a little bit, because it's called a lot of different ways, but I think lead magnet is one of the most popular ones.
To paraphrase it, you could also use freebie. Other people say free gift or free offer-

Kendra: Opt-in.

Christine: ... and opt-in, exactly, and I think those are the words that are used most of the time. Whenever people talk about that, and I find free gift is the most confusing for a lot of people, actually.

Kendra: It is confusing, because you're like, "What is that? What are you going to open up your trench coat and show me your genitals? What's happening here?"

Christine: That didn't occur to me, actually. 

Kendra: That's what I think of, but I have a dirty brain.

Christine: [inaudible 00:03:46] I'll never be able to do this again, but yes. For example, I just find it doesn't translate into the business kind of aspect of it.
We're going to talk about that today because if it's a free gift, we tend to be a little bit too generous sometimes, and that's one of the mistakes that we're going to talk about.
Just to make sure that we know what we talk about, and it's basically, what it is, is when you go to a website, it comes in many different shapes and forms, actually.
Sometimes it's very subtle, and you just have a link to click on. Sometimes you just have a button to click on, and it will lead you somewhere else, where you have to fill in your address, and so forth. 
Sometimes it's like this pop-in thing, and sometimes you immediately have to fill in your name and email address.
The most old school one I find is subscribe to my newsletter. That is basically old school.

Kendra: Which doesn't work.

Christine: Which doesn't work. Very rarely, but you know, that's a very old school one, but that's how it started, and I think-

Kendra: That's how it started.

Christine: ... most of us, back a couple of years, a few years, that would have been it on a website. That's what we call basic lead magnet.

Kendra: Primarily what the purpose of it is, is to get people on your email list. People aren't just going to give away their email addresses for nothing, and especially these days. People are pretty hesitant to give away their email address, because there's a lot of people trying to get their email address, so they like to hold onto it, but if you offer something... so, you've got to kind of bribe people. You've got to entice them to join your email list, and you might be giving away a cheat sheet, a checklist, an e-book, a web series, a video. Something like that. It's something that you give for free of value to kind of get people on to your email list so that you can create relationships with them. You can nurture them, you can get to know them, and eventually sell your product or service to them.
Christine was saying about the newsletter, that was back in the day, like when I first started blogging in 2011, that's what I had. Subscribe to my newsletter, and people would actually do it. They were just, "I want your newsletter." 
These days, people are, "Well, what does that mean? I don't know what a newsletter is. What is that?" There's nothing interesting about it anymore, and so if that's what you have on your website, It's not going to lead to people opting in to your email list, because it's just not juicy enough, right?

Christine: Exactly. [crosstalk 00:06:06] 
When receiving emails, you don't want anything else to spam. Everything you get from offers of your super market, things that you actually didn't agree to sign up on. Suddenly you're getting emails from the hotel you stayed at. The airline that you booked with or whatever.

Kendra: Yeah, and that drives me crazy, because I don't opt in for a lot of things but people are marketing to me and its completely illegal by the way guys. You need to get permission, and you need to be very clear and transparent, with the fact you are asking them to join your marketing list, and you're going to give them that free thing. They need to be well aware that they need to say yes. Right? It's like sometimes you sign up for an appointment with someone, or you purchase a product and then suddenly you're getting marketed to, and you're, "I didn't sign up for this."

Christine: It's not cool.

Kendra: It's not cool. It's very invasive right? For those of you who are brand new to this, you might be wondering how do I get their email address? How does this happen? What people are generally going to have, like Christine said; there going to have a pop up on the website. You guys have all seen this, you get on to websites and something pops up. That is a way to deliver it. A lot of people have what's called a landing page, it's basically a single page that just kind of tells people what its about, and why they need it. Why it's going to be helpful. 

Christine: Exactly. 

Kendra: That's something that you get with a third party landing page software. 

Christine: Exactly, and the way that it's different from a regular website is there isn't a menu. There's basically nothing that distracts you to click somewhere else or to go somewhere else. The only focus is on this one thing, which is to basically sell you the idea that you need this. The currency is your email address. That's basically it.

Kendra: That's basically it.

Christine: Examples of lead magnets, let me just see, so I don't jump too much ahead. 

Kendra: No. I think that's fine. 

Christine: What are examples of a lead magnet? We've already talked about it a little, but the most popular ones I reckon are I think, checklists. Are huge. 

Kendra: Yep. 

Christine: A lot of people, and the company called Lead Pages, is a company that specialize on designing those. You can do it yourself, but they've done a lot of experiments, and they said that the checklist is really popular because it's easy to consume. People don't spend a lot of time on it. Those are things that work very well. The same is for the report, works really way. Back in the day e-books were really popular, now I would say not so much. They're just too long, people are like, "I don't have time to read." A small mini training at a point a lot of people did this drip kind of thing where you get one part of a training day one, day two, than day four. I think that's already too long. People don't really have the attention span for that anymore. 

Kendra: Yeah, I feel like it's going to take a lot for people to get to the end. 

Christine: Exactly. 

Kendra: When we're talking about, the title of this podcast is "5 reasons why lead magnet isn't converting." What do we mean by convert? We mean getting people on your email list, and then that leading to a sale. Right? That's what we want. We don't just want to give someone away something for free and then disappear and then just sit there and prey and hope that they're going to eventually sell. We actually want to lead them into a sale, or a free sales call, or a program or some sort of low price offer, whatever it is. That's what we mean when we say conversion and convert. It's actually turning that lead, that person who is exchanging their email address with you to turn into your potential client right? 

Christine: Exactly. 

Kendra: Let's talk about... [crosstalk 00:09:36] Sorry, go ahead Christine.

Christine: The [inaudible 00:09:38] conversion would basically be they get on your landing page, or they see your offer, do they actually sign up? That's definitely the conversion you should track. How many people have seen it, and how many people have actually entered their email address? If you see that a lot of people have seen it, but they haven't given you their email address then somethings wrong. [crosstalk 00:09:54] that too would be to see, now they've given me their email address, they're curious they're obviously interested what I have to offer. How many of those are actually then taking the next step, saying the second yes to purchasing something from you? We're going to talk about how all of that is structured as in, how do you sell, what do you sell, in a series that is coming up soon, so stay tuned for that. 

Kendra: Yeah, we're going to have an email marketing series. Today what we're going to tell you; the five reasons why your lead magnet sucks. Okay. Basically why, I see this a lot. This is something I struggled with a lot when I was brand new, a lot of the coaches I'm talking to just can't figure out. They're like, "I have this lead magnet, I put all this effort into it but it's not working for me." We're going to break down the five primary reasons why. The first one is actually something Christine alluded to earlier. Your lead magnet may be too much of a chore, to consume and it just takes them way too long to get through. Christine said that back in the day e-books did really well, you could give away this 100 page, 50 page e-book, and people would just eat it up. These days people just don't have the attention span. 
If your lead magnet is too much of a chore to get through, even though people are signing up for it, they just don't get to the end of it. That's not going to lead your bottom line. Even though, I'm sure it's super juicy and its super good and you put your heart and soul into it. If it's too long people just aren't going to get through it. What you want is for people to get a result from your lead magnet. You want them to actually learn something of value, or actually maybe implement something from your lead magnet and be like, "wow that really worked." That's their first time coming into contact with you, your business and your brand and if they have that positive experience right out of the gate they're going to be like whoa, [crosstalk 00:11:47] this dude, this is cool. I'm going to pay attention. Right?

Christine: Exactly.

Kendra: E-books, don't do it. I see a lot of health coaches be like I'm going to do an e-book and I'm like, "no, no, no." 

Christine: No. Even if I have a 5 page e-book, I'm not going to read it. I'm just going to skip everything and jump to the last page for example. Its instant gratification. Add in a little secret hot tip in there with something that can immediately be implemented or what else you can do is to have them something that they really didn't know. 

Kendra: Yes.

Christine: For me for example it would be; here are three [inaudible 00:12:28] that you didn't know about, and also people have no idea that it could be the thyroid or a bit of hormonal food for example, it just allows them to immediately see, there's something new I've learned there. My day is better for it. Instant gratification is absolutely key. 

Kendra: Fantastic, I love that. I think that checklists, if you want to do a guide, call it a quick guide make it very apparent that this is just a quick guide. I'm not going to dump all this crazy information on you. I'm giving you a quick guide. Checklist, cheat sheet, gift guide, maybe a quick video or a video series or something that [crosstalk 00:13:02]

Christine: A review maybe, if you have [inaudible 00:13:05] if you wanted to do the best five supplements for your thyroid or something like that. People love that stuff. 

Kendra: People love that. What you want to test is when you actually make it and then read it as if you're a reader, then time how long it takes you to get through it. If it takes more than ten minutes too long really that five minute mark is pretty juicy right? People just want to get that information and move on, but if you give them say five supplements to help with thyroid or something like that and they try one of those supplements and they're like, "oh my god, my thyroid symptoms feel better." They're going to be so sold on you, they're going to be like, "this person is amazing, I'm going to follow them on social media I'm going to see what else they have." It's just a really good starting point. Don't be afraid to give away your best tips in that lead magnet, because you're really trying to impress. 

Christine: Exactly, and we're going to talk about how to present it in terms of copy on a later episode too. Some tips, people just love the number 5 for some reason.

Kendra: Or 3. 

Christine: 3 or 5 is the magic numbers because I don't know why. It just works really well. Or you could just say the number one thing. Stick between 1, 3, and 5. Don't go beyond that. Its just a magic number, make it juicy make it really interesting for them. You can get [inaudible 00:14:26] on how to write copy, and we'll talk about more on that soon. 

Kendra: Soon, yeah. I think the other I just want to mention is it's really important to know who your audience is. For example, let's say if you were a health coach working with people who are brand new, their at the very start of their healing journey, they're just realizing now that maybe standard American diet isn't right. Maybe cereal for breakfast isn't good for me and maybe Diet Coke...

Christine: [inaudible 00:14:49] isn't fruit. 

Kendra: Yeah, exactly. They're just learning, well then you need to kind of meet them where they're at. You can probably give them some really basic things that are going to seem really juicy to them. If your client is further along, and they're the type of person who's seen a lot of, they've worked with natural doctors, and they've tried a lot of things, they've done a lot of personal research and then you're just, "eat healthy, get sunshine." They're going to be like, "this sucks, I've seen this all before." You really need to know who you're talking to. If you're going to give them a really juicy piece of information you need to know where are they in their health journey, that's why its so important to determine who you're talking to. We did an episode on neish, it's one of our early episodes. I think it was maybe our first or second or third episode. 

Christine: Yeah, I was up until 3 am, I'm pretty sure.

Kendra: Guys just scroll down to the bottom of the feed, and you can find that episode on neishing, its called to neish or not to neish.

Christine: To neish or not to neish or something like that. 

Kendra: If you guys want more, cause that's really important. If you don't have a neish you're actually not going to know what to create for your lead magnet. 

Christine: Exactly, it's going to be too vague. It's not going to stick, and you're going to get weird people wanting to work with you or not work with you. 

Kendra: Totally.

Christine: Basically.

Kendra: They're just going to fall off right? 

Christine: Right. 

Kendra: That would be number one, that it's too long, it's too much of a chore to consume. The experience you might be having is people are opting in for it, but then nothing's happening. Look at how long it is, look at how juicy it is. Look at the quality. Think of how it relates to your ideal client and where they are in their whole journey. Okay, so that's number one. Number two is, you're not pitching it enough. This is another thing I see a lot of coaches do. They make their lead magnet and then they tell people about it once. 

Christine: I'm so guilty of this too. I forget that I have it. I'm guilty of a lot of things, I have to say. I have a free training that is 35 minutes, which is way too long. [inaudible 00:16:34] Anyway, we'll talk about that another time. It's very true that I'm absolutely certain that I'll get more people on my email list if I actually just mention it. It's just whenever you post, just a little tip, did you know I have a free training or to get more tips, try to relate it to your free lead magnet. Get more link is in my bio on Instagram, or a link is in my bio on Facebook, wherever you go just make it short and snappy and just add it. Did you know.... 

Kendra: Just let people know about it every time you're showing off on social media, or anywhere. Whether that's Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Pinterest. Every time you're giving away something of value it's okay to be like, "I have this free guide." Obviously the content you're giving should relate to it, for example if you're doing some sort of live video; what I always used to do is I would mention it at the beginning then go through my training and then this natural transition. Now that you know about x, y, and z you might be wondering about this, funny enough I have this free guide that will teach that. [crosstalk 00:17:37] you can get the link above the video or below this post or whatever.

Christine: Right. 

Kendra: It's just a natural transition. People liked the content you were sharing and they want to dig a little bit deeper. Then you're doing them a disservice by not letting them know that, that exists.

Christine: Exactly. You also need it if you want to get more into [inaudible 00:17:56]. 

Kendra: Yes. 

Christine: If you want to get more into PR, you want to write articles, if you have a guest post. People will usually allow you to offer your free gift, or your opt in to the people, to the crowd, to the listeners, the readers, so make sure you have one that's super juicy. Say, "look at the end of this I have this free training where I have an amazing checklist." Try to relate it to the topic, and actually if you want to go super pro, you can design it for the audience that you're talking too.

Kendra: Yeah, totally. 

Christine: You can have a URL, you just copy your lead page and then do it from, for example would be my opt in just for Entrepreneur on Fire, because everyone who's on Entrepreneur on Fire has their website/fire. It's kind of known thing. 

Kendra: Yeah. 

Christine: My opt in is bold, I'm not even sure if it works. [crosstalk 00:18:45]

Kendra: Yeah, you can actually set up a redirect. This is actually something you taught me Christine. I have a plug in for my WordPress called 301 redirect, where I can literally just create links., and then redirect it to some other page. It's really easy. Like you said sleeplikeaboss/fire. I can remember that. I can remember that right now and type it into my phone. You don't want to be, you know and have this huge thing that people are never going to remember. 

Christine: Exactly. 

Kendra: I'll often do, I just created an Instagram bio cheat sheet. I have Easy. [crosstalk 00:19:26]

Christine: Perfect. 

Kendra: Exactly. 

Christine: Things like that, and people feel flattered when they go then. Like, "hey fire starters." Or "hey it was lovely to have this interview with x,y,z on her podcast, I hope you enjoyed it." Then you have the thing there. You can even then ask for reviews afterwards and things like that. We'll talk about that later on at our later episodes where break all of this through. Just to say, there's lots of things you can do. You should have it, you should definitely customize it if you can. It's an important tool to have, and just shout about it anywhere. [crosstalk 00:19:58] have it in every thing you do. 

Kendra: Yeah, and you guys [crosstalk 00:20:02] 

Christine: Email signature is super good. 

Kendra: That's actually a great place to put it. I can't remember who I learned that from, but I have it on my email signature and my assistant's. We've got your email, we're going to get back to you within 2 business days but in the mean time we have this for you that you can check out. I think that's fantastic. 

Christine: I love that too. 

Kendra: I had one more thing to say. You guys may have noticed that some people out there have multiple lead magnets, it's very tempting to do that, and that's something you can eventually get to but if you are new, just make one. Just keep it simple, make one, [crosstalk 00:20:37] make it super specific to your audience and what you're ultimately selling. Then in the future, like right now, I have tons of options depending on what I'm teaching. It's because I have a team. I'm not a solo-preneur, I'm not doing this by myself. I have other people who are doing other aspects of my business so that I can focus on this. In the beginning don't get carried away. Create that one awesome thing that's really going to help your ideal client. 

Christine: Agreed, cause otherwise it's super confusing later. It's just not worth it. Just keep it simple. [crosstalk 00:21:09] Then once you have your team, let them still keep it super simple, but let them handle it. 

Kendra: Yeah, exactly. Once you have a team you just have more time for content creation. Right? Because their running the admin side of your business. If you guys are interested in learning how to hire a team, we actually recently did a podcast episode on that too didn't we? 

Christine: I don't know if it's published yet. 

Kendra: It's released. I actually just saw it. I'm looking this up... anyways it's like two episodes, or a few episodes ago. Check that out. Anyways, that's number two, is you're just not pitching it enough. People don't know about it. The reason you're not getting people on your list is because they don't actually know it exists, that's number two. Then number three, this one is really, really important Christine. I see this all the time. Your lead magnet is actually disconnected from the product or service you're ultimately selling. An example of this would be that you help women reverse how she motos but your lead magnet is a healthy food challenge that has nothing to do with how she motos. Or, it's a smoothy recipe guide. There's no connection there. Right?

Christine: Exactly. It's just a step, but it's not really the secret weapon or how she motos. We all know that the lead magnet is not going to solve it, but it needs to be much more related to the thyroid than just as the movie. 

Kendra: Totally. Exactly, and that means, with that example that you have people opting in to your freebie because their interested in smoothies but it doesn't mean they have how she motos or they have any interest in healing their thyroid. Their interested in smoothies, but it's confusing because you give them a smoothie recipe then suddenly you're, "sign up for a call with me to help your thyroid." People are, "what? I just wanted a smoothie what the hell is this?" 

Christine: Exactly, doesn't make sense at all.

Kendra: It doesn't make sense. You really want there to be an obvious connection. Really, your lead magnet is what do they need to know first when they come into contact with your business. With the how she motos, maybe it's five things you do every day that are making your thyroid antibodies go off the charts or something like that. 

Christine: Exactly. 

Kendra: Their like, "oh, okay." Then they get in there and then they go through your email sequence. Which again we're going to talk about email sequences in a later episode. It's obvious because their like, "okay, how she motos, oh my god these things are making my antibodies go through the roof and I didn't even know, I do them every day." Then you take them on that educational journey and eventually you're, "hey, I have this program are you interested in learning how I can help you reverse or how she motos." It's really that natural next step right? 

Christine: Exactly, and I think you also need to voice it with who you want to work with. Let's say for example if you have a product series with simple tips keep your lead magnet simple. If you have a more complex service make sure your lead magnet kind of talks to it, keep it still simple but make sure that it conveys what kind of service you have. For example for me I did have just a bedtime routine checklist, but in the end it's not what I do. Now my lead magnet which is a training, is more complex but it shows people what they don't know so that they need to hire me in order to actually learn more about this and to address this. It really depends on how you work too and make sure that, that is aligned because otherwise you just get tire kickers. One big thing I see that is happening a lot of the time is quizzes. I know that quizzes convert very well in step one, which means when you have a quiz a lot of people will sign up to take the quiz, but the people that unsubscribe is huge. 
The step two conversion of it leading to sales is not happening. There's been research done from that, especially last year in 2017 because quizzes were so huge that a lot of people experimented with it who have huge audiences and use of [inaudible 00:25:04] money and they saw, yes its converts very well and people are signing up because their very curious but it's more of an entertainment factor, it's curiosity. It's not a commitment to actually work with you or to actually take the topic seriously at that. 

Kendra: Yeah. 

Christine: I'm personally not a fan of quizzes. I think they're fun but I don't think that they will bring a crowd that is actually going to convert. 

Kendra: I love that you bring that up Christine, because I actually had a quiz as an opt in probably in 2017. It was crazy, I was running Facebook adds to it, I was getting 50 cent conversion. It cost me 50 cents for each person that was coming on to my email list with Facebook adds, now that's like unheard of but back then that was still super good. I grew my email list super fast with that quiz, but these people did not buy. When I launched my product to them through a webinar it was a flop, three times in a row with this list. It was ridiculous, and I was just like, "ahhh, why?" I just paid all this money, people are opting in but, you're right, it's just a curiosity an entertainment. I take a lot of quizzes if I'm bored. I'm like, "oh shit, that looks cool, I'm just going to take that quiz." It doesn't actually mean that I care. 

Christine: Exactly, and I think that's [crosstalk 00:26:20] a word of wisdom from us just stay away from them, don't do them. Just don't. 

Kendra: I totally agree. I tried to do it a bunch of different ways. I tried to set it up different ways. Having an assessment and then, telling them what was wrong and then sending them into another sequence. Honestly it just didn't work. 

Christine: No. 

Kendra: I agree, don't do quizzes. That's number [crosstalk 00:26:44] wait what were you going to say?

Christine: You're welcome all of you guys that are just like, [crosstalk 00:26:51] 

Kendra: Guys, that's number three. I think this is a huge one that just your lead magnet is disconnected. Right? It should be a natural transition. If you're selling gluten free recipes your lead magnet for example shouldn't be anything else but gluten free recipes. Then number four guys, is your lading page sucks. [crosstalk 00:27:16]

Christine: I love bad landing pages though. It's a pet peeve of mine, and when I see a really bad landing page I just slag it off until there's nothing there. It's kind of a pet peeve, it's not really nice of me. I mean especially people who haven't updated their website in like three, four, five, six years. 

Kendra: Yeah. 

Christine: It's hilarious. In the mean time, there's really no excuse to have a bad landing page because you literally get them out of the box. Some look still really ugly but with all the drag and drop kind of system it's kind of easy. To just break it down what your landing page should be like. There should be no unnecessary fa-rah. It's just about your free gift, that's it. Nothing else. Make sure you have a huge headline that is telling you exactly why this is super awesome. Maybe a subtitle, then already give them the opportunity to sign up. Don't make them scroll 500 years until they can give you their email address. If you look at the screen it's above the fold, which means you don't have to scroll for them to get your email address or to press the button where they can then have a box in order to have that email address. Then you can add some fluff after that. You can add a video after that, or you can add your testimonials after that. I don't know your media credibility markers or whatever you do. Make sure it's easy to read, it's a big font. Make sure please, I still don't get why people don't check to make sure it's mobile friendly. 

Kendra: Yeah, that's a big one guys, you got to. I realize that you guys are health coaches and you're on your computers but no one else in this world is. Everyone is accessing the internet from mobile. It needs to be mobile friendly. Once you finish creating it. Open it. Go to it on your phone and look at it. If it looks like shit that could be a big reason why people aren't opting in. Right? I love that you say this because people have different buying behaviors online. There's the impulse people, who are just you see the add and you're like, "I'm in." That's me, that's how I am. 

Christine: Me too, it's like... 

Kendra: I buy things all the time and I'm like, "what the fuck did I just buy?" I don't even know what that was. I'm impulsive. For me, I don't want to scroll. I don't want to have to scroll, I just want to opt in and get the thing. There are people who are called fact finders. The fact finders they actually need to do their own research, they need to spend a bit more time. For them their going to see that opt in but you should give them the opportunity to scroll. They should be able to see what does this freebie contain. Who the hell are you, maybe in a bio, and then some testimonials if you have them. Right?

Christine: Exactly. 

Kendra: That's going to allow them to maybe build a bit more trust and convince them a bit more. For those people who are impulsive you want to make sure like Christine said it's above the fold and they don't have to go anywhere they can just enter their email address and it's done. 

Christine: Exactly, and if you have a longer lead page make sure that you add that opportunity at the beginning and also at the end. 

Kendra: Yes. 

Christine: Some people will be at the end, and they just don't want to scroll back up. Just make sure that they can do it there. 

Kendra: Yeah, you can have another opt in at the end, or you can just have it set up so when you click the button it just takes you back to the top of the page, which is what I think I have. [crosstalk 00:30:34] The other thing I want to mention is how you know your lead page isn't working would be that nobody's opting in. It's probably somethings wrong with your landing page. 

Christine: Exactly. 

Kendra: Sometimes it just takes a small shift to get it to convert. When something's not working I think a lot of us just want to go in change everything. Change the headline, do a video instead of a photo, then if it starts converting you actually don't know what works. It's really important to just change one thing at a time. 

Christine: Exactly. 

Kendra: Change the color and see what happens, change the image see what happens. Change the wording in the headline and sit back because sometimes for me I've had landing pages that were getting super low conversion and I literally just changed the wording up a bit with the headline and suddenly it was at a 70% opt in rate. 

Christine: Exactly, and there's tons of blog posts on this about people who have done insane amounts of research on this. It's just like the color of the button is super important. It shouldn't be red for example or shouldn't be too aggressive. The font is really important. There's all these studies on them. I obviously go against all of them because I make it rather pretty rather than [inaudible 00:31:44] which is again, something else to do but I think if it's in line with your brand, again, it's fine. Make sure you only tweak one little thing and have it run for at least one to two weeks. Give it some time for people to actually get there and to see. It's not that your lead magnet is necessarily bad because they arrive there because they were interested in it. 

Kendra: Yeah. 

Christine: The idea is good it's literally just the page. [crosstalk 00:32:06]

Kendra: Something turned them off, whatever it was. You want to intrigue them. You don't just want to be like, "get my free awesome thing." You want that headline to really trigger them, it should really speak to that pinpoint. If we're going back to that how she motos example it maybe mentions something like isn't it frustrating when every time you go back to the dr your antibodies are through the roof or even higher. That's scary to people that's when, "Oh my god, yeah every time I go back those antibodies just keep getting higher it's really scary right? Speak to their emotions, have an emotional trigger in that headline. 

Christine: Exactly. Super important. Another thing I wanted to mention is, don't ask for too much information. I think in the mean time nobody's doing this anymore but at the time you had first name, surname, phone number, email. Don't do this. First never ask for someones phone number. People are going to be super offended. Personally I find that even the name is a field too many. I am a huge fan of just entering the email address. The reason why name can be interesting is that you can afterwards use it in your newsletter. It would be the computer registers basically that, this is Christine. Then you can automate that it would be every [inaudible 00:33:20] it would say their first name. It would be, "hi, Christine." For example, when I sign up, not always with my first name, I might just use C. Sometimes I might just use test, or I might use stinky feet. 

Kendra: I hate stinky feet. 

Christine: Then it's like every newsletter you get from that person is like, "Hey, Stinky feet." Don't do it. When you have a business, and you send them newsletters. You don't know who did that. You don't know who filled in the crazy name. I personally don't do it, and it's another step that people don't... It's another hoop to jump through. Keep it simple and my advise would just be email. That's it. 

Kendra: I do ask for the first name, it's funny because I probably do say, "hey, stinky feet." a million times to the people [crosstalk 00:34:04] I have actually found that my nurture sequence does better when I say their name a ton of times. I just keep saying their name, sometimes I'll say it five or six times in an email. For some reason people seem to love that, it works for me. You really got to figure out what works for you right? If someone puts stinky feet in there, and I'm like, "doesn't that feel terrible stinky feet?" [crosstalk 00:34:30] I'm definitely going to rethink this a little bit. 

Christine: Especially because some people really think you're writing them.[crosstalk 00:34:38] You wrote this for me [inaudible 00:34:40]

Kendra: It is funny, some people don't realize that it's a mass email. Some people they'll just write back to you like you're talking to them. Do you not? But some people [crosstalk 00:34:53]

Christine: That's what we want in the end. But it's hilarious so just be mindful of that. 

Kendra: Totally.

Christine: Then we have, oh, the legal stuff. 

Kendra: I wanted to just mention privacy policy and GDPR compliant because this is especially important if you're running Facebook adds. If you're running Facebook adds to a lead magnet and you don't have a privacy policy obviously on the bottom of your website or your GDPR policy that might be a reason why your add doesn't get approved or that it just doesn't convert. Facebook actually checks this shit out. I don't know if that's true for other add advertising platforms, like Pinterest or YouTube. It is for Facebook so I wouldn't be surprised if it was for all of them. They want to see that you have a privacy policy on your website. It should just be a link that takes them to some other page and just list your privacy policy. You can get templates for a privacy policies online, you can get templates for GDPR compliance stuff, just make sure it's there. 

Christine: Exactly, and if you're in Europe it's a little bit more intense as well. If you have an email provider that's a little bit say they will have it done for you. For example for mail [inaudible 00:36:05] and that we use for the podcast it just tells you add a GDPR box and basically people just have to check those boxes, and it's fine. You're in agreement basically. 

Kendra: Yeah. 

Christine: Yes, it's an additional step for them, but sometimes it's not too bad because there's a little commitment with that as well. [crosstalk 00:36:20]

Kendra: It's true. 

Christine: Having said that we can also quickly mention that the difference between a one step opt in and a two step opt in sometimes you have to click and then you have a box opening. Then you have to type in your name, and sometimes you just have the field right on the landing page. 

Kendra: Yep.

Christine: Statistically the people who click on the button and then have the opt in, have to type in, have two steps basically to do. Clicking button, typing, are better leads in the end because their more committed to do it. 

Kendra: That's a good point. I know in Canada you have to have a double opt in, so it's the law that people subscribe, but then they get an email that says confirm your subscription. They have to click on that. It's true, yeah it's an extra step, some people may not click it but the people that don't actually go through that super simple step that takes all of five seconds. They're probably not that engaged anyways. That's something I know that's true in Canada, I don't know about the states and I'm sure it's true in Europe. [crosstalk 00:37:20] know where you live and what your laws are. 

Christine: Exactly. For example, I have an insane amount of people on my list who are unconfirmed. Which means they sign up, but they never hit the confirmation button. I throw them out. I literally throw them out, because for me, it's okay you can't even be bothered to click that link your most likely never going to be a client. 

Kendra: They've probably got shiny object syndrome, they're like, "oh that's cool." Then they sign in and then their like, "shiny object." Then they're gone. 

Christine: Exactly. [crosstalk 00:37:52] I can see that when I look at my subscribers. If you're unconfirmed I'm just throwing you out.

Kendra: Totally. 

Christine: Yeah. All right. 

Kendra: Awesome, okay. That's number four, that's your landing page sucks, that's the fourth reason. Then this one I think is just in regards to content. It may be the reason why people don't want to give away their email address to you is because maybe you're just not giving them content. Maybe you're just coming at them with the pitch you're, "this is my lead magnet, this is my lead magnet." Those are your posts. You're not warming people up with the really good valuable content. You should follow me and Christine on social media, especially Instagram. I'm at KPerryNutrition, and Christine is sleeplikeaboss. We actually give away a lot of really valuable content on our feed on our stories, on IGTV. Seriously it's a gold mine. That's why people are very open to giving me their email address because I'm giving them value. People are very sensitive to being marketed to in whatever way shape or form it comes in. You just can't lead with that. It's okay to pitch your lead magnet but you better give them something good. 

Christine: Exactly. The way I do it, I'm pretty soft on the sauce. I don't pitch my lead magnet that much. What I do regularly is I pitch my blog. You have every other day on my Instagram there will be content that is directly linked to my blog and it's the URL that's on my Instagram profile and when you go to my blog I actually have a pop up. I actually hate pop ups, but they also work. 

Kendra: They work.

Christine: [inaudible 00:39:27] In terms of that, you get all of this free content. You come from a place where you already received content, you want to check out more. Then I'm a little in your face, like, "Hi." It's kind of a balance thing. Sometimes you have to be a little bit more.

Kendra: Totally, and I think for me, I do weekly YouTube videos. I really pitch my YouTube videos. My YouTube video gives away actual tips, sometimes I give tutorials, at the end of the video it says, "hey, now you know about this but maybe you're wondering about this." You can click below this video and get my freebie, and that works really well for me. I get a lot of my traffic from YouTube even with a small channel. I don't get crazy views on my videos but a lot of those people do end up opting in just because it is very connected. Right?

Christine: Yeah. 

Kendra: It's like the video [crosstalk 00:40:14] has to do with the lead magnet that I ultimately pitched. I don't pay for adds right now and all my leads are coming to me through YouTube. It's like I'm pitching something of value and then eventually that leads to.

Christine: Agreed, I never pay for ads. It's weird, it's a different story. 

Kendra: It is. [crosstalk 00:40:33] and we'll do something on paid ads, on paid traffic here at some point. I know a lot of you guys are wondering about Facebook ads, which have gotten a lot more competitive and a lot more expensive. There are actually other really great ways to advertise. I also think that initially when you're new, you really should be pumping organic traffic. Smart organic traffic because ads are expensive. You will get to a point in your business where you'll have the budget for ads and you'll want to scale and I think it makes sense to be running ads but in the beginning I think you really just got to get your organic and free content dialed down before you start going into ads. 

Christine: Agreed. All right. I think that was a no brainer. Let's make a quick summary. Number one. We have five reasons your lead magnet sucks, so number one is that it's too much, too difficult, too long. Number two, nobody knows about it because you don't talk about it. Number three is it has nothing to do with how you serve people or what you sell. Number four is your landing page is just bad. Redo it. Number five is that it's not good enough content. It's just fluff and nothing of value. 

Kendra: Yeah, people just don't want to. THey're like "this person sucks. I'm out." 

Christine: Exactly. 

Kendra: Bye. [inaudible 00:41:49] Awesome. It was super fun hanging out with you as always Christine. We have so much fun, and I think we're funny. I hope [crosstalk 00:41:55]

Christine: I think we're hilarious. Seriously, I'm wondering if people want to see a case study because I'm thinking of redoing my training soon and just [crosstalk 00:42:03] see us do a case study. Set all this stuff up, let us know and we might make a workshop on that. That you could then get on our website.

Kendra: Totally. 

Christine: Let us know if that's something that you're interested in. We'd love to know.

Kendra: Or you can just email us hello at 360HealthBiz.podcast or just shoot us a DM on Instagram 360HealthBiz is our handle. Because we love Instagram, we think that it is the social media platform with the most opportunity, if you guys are listening to this on your smart phone right now just screenshot it, share it to your stories, mention 360 Health Biz podcast and we will share it to our stories and just let us know in that story what was your biggest take home, because that just really helps us know that you actually are getting something out of our content. 

Christine: Exactly. We love you loads, please love us back. 

Kendra: Yep, love goes both ways.

Christine: Exactly. We'll talk to you in a couple of weeks. 

Kendra: Yeah, well in one week. 

Christine: In a week already... 

Kendra: A week, yeah. We now release episodes every week. 

Christine: See, I'm so... [crosstalk 00:43:02]

Kendra: Christine doesn't even know 

Christine: God, I'm a nightmare. Yes, I'll talk to you next week.

How to Get the Swipe Up Feature on Instagram (WITHOUT 10K FOLLOWERS!)


Are you totally jealous of all the Instagram accounts out there that have the swipe up feature? I hear you. I'm just like you. When I made this video, I didn't  have 10,000 followers yet, so I discovered a sneaky little work around that will allow you to access the swipe up feature without having 10K followers.

The swipe up feature converts super, super well on Instagram, but what a shame it is when you have less than 10K and you can't access this feature. Now, when you don't have 10K, it's not quite as seamless as it would be if you had 10K and you wanted to use the swipe up feature. It does take a little bit more effort, but I promise you it's fully worth it because you can send people from Instagram to your website, to your sales page or your landing page.

Now, the first thing you're going to want to do is you're going to want to create a one minute vertical video and you're going to do that making your smartphone. Just take your phone record a one minute video, and in that video you're going to tell people why they should be clicking on your link. If it's a YouTube video you want to link to, for example, you're going to tell them why they should watch that video. At the end of that one minute or at any point in the video, you want to make sure that you tell people to click the link and point to the top right corner.

The next really important thing is to make sure that you upload a high quality thumbnail into your IGTV video, so it'll prompt you to do this at the beginning of your upload. Now this is important because the IGTV video that you post is actually going to automatically populate to your Instagram feed. If you don't upload a thumbnail, it's going to be just a random shot of your face that maybe looks like that or like that and that doesn't actually entice people to want to click into that video. If you add a custom thumbnail that has a graphic that tells people exactly what that video is about or exactly whatever it is you want them to click to is about, then people on your feed are going to be way more likely to click into that video.

The next thing you're going to want to do is you're going to want to upload that one minute video that you just created to your IGTV channel. Create your title and add your link in the description section and guess what? The link is actually clickable unlike when you add a link to a regular Instagram post. Remember that image where you're pointing to the upper right corner? This is because that is where the arrow is that they need to click to access that link and go to your video or whatever it is that you're linking to.

The next thing you're going to do is upload a quick Instagram story that tells people why they should click to whatever it is you want them to click to. Before you upload the story, you want to link your story to your IGTV post! On the top left corner of that Instagram story, there is a link icon. Click that icon, and you'll see that IGTV video that you just posted. You want to select that video and what that's going to do is it's going to allow the people who are watching your stories to swipe up to go to that IGTV video.

Do you see how this all connects? Basically people who are watching your stories are going to swipe up to get your IGTV video and then that video is going to tell them to click the link to go to your YouTube video or your lead magnet or your sales page or your blog posts or whatever it is that you want to lead to. It's a little bit more maintenance, but this work around works super well. I've tracked it and I get a ton of clicks this way to my videos, to whatever it is that I want to promote so I really do recommend using it and putting in that little bit of extra effort.

If you want to learn more about IGTV and how to dominate Instagram with it, be sure to watch my video, How to Get More Views Using IGTV.

Boost Instagram Followers in 2019 (WITHOUT BOTS!)


Are you considering buying followers or even getting a bot to get more followers? STOP, I repeat, stop buying followers!!

I'm going to teach you how to boost your followers without a robot or without paying money for them. I grew my account from 2,000 to 9,000 followers this past year. And I did so WITHOUT bots, WITHOUT fake followers and WITHOUT paying for fake followers.

The first thing you can do to increase your followers on Instagram is to actually go out and follow your ideal client. Because every time you follow someone, your account actually pops up in their notifications. So if they are a person who might be interested in the type of content you're putting out there and then they are way more likely to follow you back. So if you are targeting single moms who are looking to lose weight, you might go around and look for Instagram accounts that are owned by single moms, which you can usually tell when you are looking through their feed.

Number two is to be SOCIAL on Instagram. Who knew that you have to be social on social media? So make sure to engage, like, and comment on the posts of your ideal client. When you can start a conversation with someone who might fall into your target market, that will actually tell the Instagram algorithm that they like seeing your content. And you're going to be way more likely to show up in their feed. 

The third thing is to be strategic with the hashtags you use when you're posting. This will make you more searchable. So you actually want to go out and do a little bit of hashtag research because if you're using massive hashtags that have millions of posts, as someone who has a small following, you're probably never going to rank in that category. You can utilize Instagram and search for various hashtag and see how many posts that each hashtag has. Now, as someone who has a smaller account, you're going to want to look for hashtags that are maybe under 50,000 or up to 200,000. But I wouldn't go over 200,000 because you're probably not going to rank since you are a smaller account.

My fourth tip is to utilize Instagram Stories every single day of the week, or at least every single day of your work week. Instagram Stories actually populate above the feed. So there are those little circles that are above your individual feed and every time you post a new story, it actually moves you to the front. So when you're posting stories regularly throughout the day, you're way more likely to stay on top of your ideal client's feed and they're going to be way more likely to watch your stories. Now, you want to be strategic with your stories. Instagram Stories is a fantastic way to educate and provide value to your ideal clients. So if you want to get inspired and see the opportunity for the types of Instagram stories that you can post, go ahead to Instagram and follow my account and tune into some of my stories to see how I do it.

My last tip is to optimize your Instagram bio so that when people come to your page, they know exactly what that page is about. So it really grinds my gears when I see health coaches out there posting their certifications, their interests. But there's actually nothing in that bio that tells me what is this page actually about. You only have five seconds to grab this person's attention and make them want to follow your account. So you need to be very clear about who the page is for and what they can expect to get from following the page. If you want to dive a little bit deeper into this and you want to know how to optimize your Instagram bio like a boss, make sure to grab my Instagram Bio Cheat Sheet.

All right, friends, now go grow that Instagram account and fire that robot!

SEO for Health Coaches with Stephanie Fiteni



What on Earth is SEO, why do we need it, and how can it help us get more money? Our guest today is Stephanie Fiteni, a traffic growth specialist and helps clients get leads and book discovery calls in their sleep. Um yes please! In this episode of the 360 Health Biz Podcast, Stephanie shares her knowledge on SEO and we dive into search engine optimization for health coaches, particularly looking at SEO for blog posts, SEO tips for website, SEO practices, local SEO and how to use keywords to grow your health coaching business.
 SEO stands for Search Engine Optimization, which basically means it is how you are ranked in Google so people can find you. Ultimately it’s making little tweaks to our website and our copywriting to ensure we have keywords that people are searching for. SEO also includes social media!
 Here is what we nerd out on in this episode:
 - what is SEO and how to use it
 - what is a sales funnel
 - what are keywords and where do we put them
 - local SEO vs SEO (there’s a difference!)
 - SEO for social media
 - YouTube as a search engine
 - content auditing 

We have many mind blowing moments in this episode so grab a pen to take notes for all the ah-ha moments you’re about to have!

Stephanie is a content marketing strategist and blog coach. She helps Coaches, Consultants and B2B companies up-level their blogs and websites so they can grow their business with less effort. She turns her clients’ traffic-less blogs into lead-generation engines by helping them plan their content, research their keywords and create content and funnels that will rank and convert. She is a traffic growth specialist and helps clients get leads and book discovery calls in their sleep. Stephanie coaches clients on a 1:1 basis, sells online courses and can be booked to design strategies or speak/train live.
Get Stephanie's FREEBIE of 10 Steps to More Leads:

Tools Mentioned:
Ubersuggest –
SEO Powersuite -
Mongoose -
WordPress plugin: Nelio -
Yoast -

Say hi on social: 
Kendra Perry Instagram:
Christine Hansen Instagram:

Connect with Stephanie:


Christine: Hello everyone, and welcome to this new episode of the 360 Health Biz podcast where we are today with me, myself and I, Christine Hansen and my absolutely stunning, beautiful, funny and adorable co-hostess with the mostess, Kendra Perry. And-

Kendra: Hello.

Christine: Yes. [inaudible 00:00:21] So, we are super excited about this episode today. It's going to blow your mind as we have in the past, and we have proof, people. So, we have proof, which we're going to brag about in a second, and we have a lovely person who left us a review that Kendra's going to read to us. And if you want a shout-out just like they do right now then please head over to iTunes and leave us a five star review with lots of love. We totally appreciate it. So, listen to what this gorgeous, glamorous person had to say.

Kendra: Yeah, so we have a really awesome review from One-butterfly-one. I think it might be a she but it could be a he, so they say, "Kendra and Christine are incredible." Thank you.

Christine: Aw.

Kendra: "The podcast more and more, it's not only fun, but it provides actionable advice tools, tips that actually work, and I've been seeing amazing results by listening to these cool gals and having a laugh along with them as I learn ways to keep moving the needle forward in my business. Thank you ladies, you rock." Well, we think you rock, One-butterfly-one.

Christine: Yeah. That's amazing-

Kendra: You are.

Christine: ... That is such a good review. I think we're super happy. Honestly it makes us feel like, "Okay, I think we're doing good." Right?

Kendra: I think so. Kind of rubs our egos in the right way. So we dig it. Thank you.

Christine: Totally, because our egos are so tiny, you know? But seriously, you rock. Thank you so much, we appreciate it so, so, so much. So please don't think that we are fine if you don't leave us a review. We are not, and we really do want one. So please head over to iTunes and do that over there.

Christine: Now, today we are tackling a subject that Kendra and I are still kind of baffled about, I would say. That both of us, I'm absolutely certain have tried at one point or another to get into it, and I think both of us probably dropped it as well.

Kendra: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Christine: So today we have someone who is going to be able to explain it to us in a way that we understand, because I think one of the reasons why we dropped it is that it's very often explained in a very tech, dry, my math teacher is not very fascinating kind of way. So, today we have Stephanie Fiteni with us, and Stephanie is a content marketing strategist and blog coach. So listen carefully, you should all have a blog by the way. She helps coaches consultants and B to B companies up-level their blogs and websites so they can grow their business with less effort, and who doesn't want to do that?

Kendra: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Christine: She turns her clients' traffic-less blogs, sad, sad, into lead generation engines by helping them plan their content, research their keywords and create content and funnels that will rank and convert, sexy, sexy. She is a traffic growth specialist and helps clients get leads and book discovery calls in their sleep. Oh, Stephanie, how I do love that sentence. Stephanie coaches clients on a one-on-one basis, so that's online courses, and she can be booked to design strategies or speak and train live. So I am super, super excited to have you here, and we are going to get right into it, I guess. So, welcome Stephanie.

Stephanie: Wow, thank you for a lovely introduction. Wow.

Christine: Well, you wrote it!

Stephanie: I'm really happy to be here.

Christine: So, we are here because both of us we are really happy to have you, because both of us have had this word SEO come up and I was super embarrassed because I forgot what it meant. But it is Search Engine Optimization everyone. I do remember. But it's this thing that I think everyone has come across as an entrepreneur, and it's like next to your finances probably one of the things that you really just want to ignore. But I do think it can be a game changer in your business. So can you, first of all, just tell us what on Earth is SEO, why do we need it, and how can it help us get more money, which we love?

Stephanie: Right. So, SEO, I'm happy you said it correctly because actually a lot of people the first time call it CEO.

Christine: [inaudible 00:04:36] only me.

Stephanie: Yes, I have a lot of clients that keep that. They just can't drop the CEO. It doesn't matter what you call it, SEO is ultimately those little tweaks we do to our websites, to the copy on our sites, and to everything that we do. It also includes social media, by the way. Everything we do, needs to be optimized for the keywords so that people know, Google knows more than anything, what we're about.

Stephanie: So in reality, Search Engine Optimization is about organizing your website, and optimizing your content. Now when I say optimizing, okay, what that means is simply putting your keywords in the right place. We can talk more in depth about that in just a minute.

Christine: But how does it make you money?

Stephanie: Okay, so first of all it makes you money by saving you time. So what I like to do is, maybe my approach is a little bit different to other SEO people because they tend to only focus on the traffic. What I like to do is, I like to help people refocus and make the most of their content.

Stephanie: So we're going to create a blog post and the aim of that, is that it ranks in the first place in search in engines I would also reformat that blog post to use it in the short-term, to generate leads as well. And of course it would also generate leads on our website by having a funnel. Now I don't know if you've talked about funnels before in your podcast?

Christine: We kind of have, but we haven't had an episode on it. Kendra, we need to get on that.

Kendra: Yeah I think that would be a good episode to talk about. I think the word funnel, in general, when I started, I didn't even know what funnel meant. I was like, what do you mean a funnel? Like something you put milk through, to get it into a different glass? Like what is that?

Christine: Yes Kendra, that's it!

Stephanie: Well that's the shape, that's the basic shape. If you Google it, yeah, that's what you'll find.

Stephanie: Well let's explain what a funnel is. So in order to build your business, especially if you're an online business, but not just if you're an online business, even if you're a coach that works face to face, keeping in touch with people through your email list of importance, so what the funnel does is basically you have these tools on your website, that grow your email list. So you would attract them to your website with a blog post and then you would offer them something to entice them to jump on your list.

Christine: Yes.

Stephanie: Now, it can be a simple you know, join our list to receive more content like this. You know that's the simplest kind of one you can have. Maybe a more complex funnel would be, you have a freebie, or a PDF that gives for value about the same topic that you've just been reading about, and then they go on your list, and because you know what they've downloaded, you know exactly what they're interested in. So then you can follow that up. There are some pretty smart tools out there that can just send a series of emails automatically, once somebody's on your list.

Stephanie: And I think for coaches, one of the most important things, is that you don't actually need to wait weeks or months, before you ask people to jump on a call with you. You can actually do it in the first three or four emails and very often there will be a percentage of people that are interested in talking to you. So you've made money.

Christine: Exactly, and just as an example, my funnel is one email. That's it, because I'm super lazy. I literally, I don't have anything specific. I have one opt in and one email that says, hello and then book a call, and that's it.

Stephanie: [crosstalk 00:08:46] be enough and then it's just a matter of getting more eyeballs on that website.

Christine: So tell me a little, so you said keywords. There's two things that I'm interested in, so keywords, what the hell are keywords? How many do I need to use, and I know that I have these used SEO thing, and it has me to use different keywords, and I'm like well, I'm about sleep, can I use sleep every time? Is that a mistake? What the hell am I supposed to use, and then you said social media, and I'm like, wait, how? So tell me more.

Stephanie: Okay, so first of all, those keywords we said, I think about 30% of my clients are actually from the health industry. Health coaches to be precise. There's a very good reason for that because keywords are really tough, in the health and wellness industry.

Christine: Yay!

Stephanie: I would say, they're not difficult to [inaudible 00:09:45], they're difficult to find.

Christine: Right.

Stephanie: Because let's say you cure migraines. So let's say I've got a migraine, and I go onto Google, and I'm going to type in "best migraine medication". So If I'm looking for best migraine medication, and I obviously have a migraine, so I am the target audience right? Now, what tends to happen is that, a lot of wellness coaches would cure migraine, but not my medication. So let's say, some people do it with meditation even, some people do it with alternative, natural therapies. So, what you need to do with SEO in that case, you need to catch the traffic that is looking for the most basic, fastest solution to a problem, because you know the doctors already, and then educate them into buying what you're selling.

Christine: Right.

Stephanie: And I think that's kind of the keyword to wellness coaches. The problem is, you tend to optimize for the outcome or for what you're selling.

Christine: Hang on, I think I have a light bulb moment!

Stephanie: So for me, like sleeping pills, although that is what I don't advocate, would for example, be a great keyword because people are looking for that.

Kendra: Oh my gosh! I'm having a light bulb moment too!

Christine: That's just like wrong! Seriously, I think we did it all wrong, like most of it.

Kendra: That's my favorite type of content, I call it Trojan horse content because what you're doing is like you're attracting, but of course, it's not going to [inaudible 00:11:40] very highly, but you already know that they're looking for a solution now. All you're doing is educating them, and what tends to happen is online, when you search something like that, you're going to find these chemical companies, that are advertising, or they put the [inaudible 00:12:00] on line. A lot of the time, the person looking, wants something more than that, it's like they're looking for a solution. And they'd be probably happy to buy if there was a resolved problem now, but if it's a recurring problem, and a lot of wellness problems are, then you have the time to educate them. Why pills may not be the best solution for your migraine.

Christine: Yeah.

Kendra: When you're doing the research for keywords, does it matter about competition, because what I've learned about SEO, I've learned a lot about certain keywords like so many people are using them. There's like two million searches for them. So someone, who's like you know small me, like me, I might not actually rank in that.

Christine: You're not small me baby!

Stephanie: There's a couple of things to say about that. If the competition is high and there's large volume, chances are people are already banking in on it, and which means they have a lot of money coming in, and they have a lot of money to spend on SEO, which means it's not likely you'll manage to rank for it in the short-term. It doesn't mean you won't manage, but you certainly can't do it fast.

Christine: Okay.

Stephanie: So what you would need to begin with, is actually finding out a number of keywords for yourself. I like to start with the low competition ones, that have good traffic, but you can get the low hanging fruits, with keywords, like we just mentioned the ones where you know that that person Googling it, [inaudible 00:13:41], has a really big [crosstalk 00:13:52].

Kendra: And is there a tool that can [inaudible 00:13:53], help you for like-

Stephanie: Yes there are many, many, many keyword tools. I can recommend a few. It depends on how techy you are and whether you have a budget for it.

Christine: Let's use super cheap and not techy at all.

Stephanie: Well, there is one called Ubersuggest, but the problem with keyword tools is that they're very slow. This one is particularly slow, but it's free.

Kendra: And what's it called again, sorry?

Stephanie: It's called Ubersuggest, it's [crosstalk 00:14:30]. Yes I can give you the link and we can put it on.

Kendra: That would be awesome.

Stephanie: Spelt like Uber, you know the taxi? And suggest.

Kendra: Very cool.

Stephanie: But I prefer to use, there's a couple of other tools. There's the SEO PowerSuite, so you've been doing SEO for a while and you want to go deeper, you can go try that. It's like the cheapest entry level Pro Software. Especially if you also work offline, and you can work really well with local SEO, you can use a tool called Mongoose. I'm just going to look at it quickly actually because I need to double check the name. It's called Mongoose. The company that makes it, is called Mongoose and there's all these different tools. This is the keyword tool.

Kendra: Yeah.

Stephanie: Unfortunately it's not free, it's about $40 a month. I can forward you the link to the exact tool because there are a few.

Kendra: Yeah, we'll add all these into the show notes, for all you listeners out there.

Stephanie: But basically what you want is, you want to see three things, in your keyword results when you search keywords. You want to see more suggestions because it's like really important that you keep growing your keyword list. You want to see the competition and you also what to see the Pay-Per-Click price.

Kendra: Oh okay.

Stephanie: And this is something a lot of people use to create online ads. So you know they want to advertise in Google, it will tell me how much it's going to cost me to advertise for that keyword. But for organic search, that gives you a very good idea of how much money that keyword is making. And of course, you're not going to pay for it because you're going organic. So if you actually choose the keywords that have a high Pay-Per-Click value, they will tend to turn to clients more easily.

Christine: Oh really?

Kendra: So a high Pay-Per-Click value is better than a low Pay-Per-Click value. I feel like I had that totally flipped.

Christine: Me too completely. I was just going to say, oh okay so you want to get the cheaper ones because those are the ones that nobody wants and those are easy [crosstalk 00:16:50]

Stephanie: And that's true if what you're planning to spend on ads, that makes such good sense but since you're going organic, you don't.

Kendra: Okay, got it.

Christine: There was another interesting thing that you said, and that was local, like local SEO. So we do have people, who have a practice. So how is their SEO different from you know people I can [inaudible 00:17:17] for example, who only work in the online space or mainly?

Stephanie: It's easier, much easier. Google is really on your side when it comes to that. So you can get yourself a Google business page, and in your Google business page, you can put everything. So you put your location on the map, you can put all your keywords and you know you can list all your services, your opening hours. If you have different locations, [inaudible 00:17:48] different locations too. And once you've done that, what Google will do is, they will actually, I actually have one, but I can't spot it right now. They will send you an envelope, with a nice Google logo on it.

Christine: I have received that.

Stephanie: That's right, you just put your pin in to confirm that the address is yours, and then from then on, you will appear in searches on the side, as a suggestion, especially when people are searching for something similar to what you do, within your catchment area. It's really good for walk-in traffic.

Christine: So I have another question. You said you put your keywords in, how do I do that? Do I imagine just like typing in a list of these words that I found out? So let's say I were to only have an office here, so if I was I, I'd go into that search engine, I'd type in 'sleep', and check what comes up, and then I'd have a list and then I'd say I want these keywords that say how many? 20, 10, 5, hundred? I don't know, what would be-? And then do I just copy paste those and I'd put them in there or do I have to write a text and weave them in? How do I do that?

Stephanie: Okay, so there's no limit to how many keywords you can use, but you should use one keyword for each piece of content.

Christine: Okay.

Stephanie: We don't [inaudible 00:19:13], that's one of my pet feeds you know. A lot of people out there are saying they still show notes, and no they don't because SEO is something you need to stay in the loop with. Like there were 3000 algorithm updates only in the last 18 months. And whenever there's an algorithm update, I go out there and I test, and I see how we can use it to get better rankings or faster rankings.

Christine: You're so smart! I'm like-

Stephanie: This is the best [inaudible 00:19:54]. There are people who have maybe done an SEO course one or two years ago and they just stick to what they learned then. That's very frustrating for somebody like me because I look at the show notes, and I'm like, stop telling me they're SEO, because they're not. But anyway. So you don't a limited amount of keywords, it depends on how much content. Well let's see if you're producing content once a week, you're going to need 52 keywords for a year.

Christine: Yes.

Stephanie: But that's how it works, one keyword for each content. Now it does have to, you know not have, to have two or three categories that you can collect them in to. So you know, decide what three topics you want to optimize your website for, both have to be connected and relevant because we don't want to confuse people or Google because they tend to kind of read the stuff more in a similar way, as time goes by. So in reality, you build your site for people, you should be okay with Google.

Stephanie: You need to have these three categories and your keywords need to be collected in these three buckets, and then, this is where it gets interesting, then at this stage, when you have these three categories, you can choose your keywords [inaudible 00:21:21] category. It can be one of these really highly competitive keywords that have a lot of traffic.

Stephanie: Over time, you will manage to rank for that, but that is sort of based on the keyword cluster or the content cluster you're going to create for that particular keyword over time. So it's about sort of [intralinking 00:21:43] and you know, and all of that.

Christine: Okay, so I still don't ... I'm still confused, less but I have this keyword, where do I put it? Does that just mean I use it once in the text? Do I have to go in the back end of my blog and put it into, I don't know, a hashtag, what do I do with the word? Is it enough to just put that in there?

Stephanie: The first thing you need to do, has just been actually proven recently. [inaudible 00:22:20] kind of, he ran a survey, with all the SEO people, who work professionally in SEO, and he basically asked them the questions about what Google says works.

Christine: Okay.

Stephanie: Verify what SEO people are actually seeing that works. And the one thing that you will hear contradictions about what has been proven to definitely be true, is that you need your keyword in the title.

Christine: Okay, good.

Stephanie: That's definitely step number one. I get it's a little bit difficult to explain without actually showing you because it's a science in reality, but I'll break it down to just give you a few pointers. So you definitely need is in your first paragraph.

Christine: Good.

Stephanie: So definitely needs to go in the beginning of your article and it does have, if you have subtitles. You know if you have five steps to make something happen, or sometimes you can even have a story and sort of draw out subtitles.

Christine: Right. And it would-

Stephanie: Sorry?

Christine: And it would be enough to just go into your blog and use that funk, like kind of highlight it and create it as a subtitle. It would recognize that right?

Stephanie: Yes, now if you have subtitles, it's good to have three or four because your keyword shouldn't go in all of them because let's say, Google can kind of break down language naturally and if I'm talking to you about something, I would maybe start off, let's say by talking about, I don't know, migraine medication. I might call it migraine medication the first time, second time, but the as we go along the conversation, I'm probably going to start using other words like, drugs or [inaudible 00:24:16] or I might use the word headache instead of migraine, even though they're not the same thing.

Stephanie: We naturally start mixing it in, so as you go further down the article, you use less of the same keyword, and more kind of synonyms.

Christine: Wait! My mind is blown. I love this so much, it geeks me out like ... [inaudible 00:24:38], it turns me on, I love it, it's okay but I think I had a [inaudible 00:24:44] once, that did it for me, that kind of told me [inaudible 00:24:48] and now and then, I don't remember when it was, I have so much stuff, but yeah, it makes total sense. It really makes sense.

Stephanie: There are tools out there that really do tell you that as you log on, tell you you don't have enough keywords, you have too much and stuff like that, but from my experience it takes you really long to finish [inaudible 00:25:07].

Kendra: I feel like with Yoast, you're trying to get the green smiley face. I only ever get like the orange, flat line mouth, where it's like mm. It's okay, but it's not good and I'm like, I don't know how to get that smiley face.

Stephanie: Indeed, indeed, perhaps that's why it's good to know what works, so I'll tell you what I do.

Kendra: Okay.

Stephanie: I of course, I also have an agency with my husband, so I've been taking care of the content team there, and I don't participate so much in the execution of the work, but I still participate in the strategy, I mean the evaluation. So it does have me sort of keep my finger on the pulse as to what's working and what isn't. And it's good to keep track of what works, and sort of use it as a step by step sort of guideline or a [inaudible 00:26:09].

Stephanie: So because these things change over time, we have internal guidelines in the agency, and which I also share of course, with my clients. But I update them more or less every two to three months, so there isn't a formula that's always going to work.

Christine: Yeah agreed, and I just found my software, and it's called, it used to be called Webtext, but it's called TextMetrics, and it would just basically tell you, okay enter highlight here, enter header here, and you would give it the first keyword, and it would give you synonyms and things like that, and it would tell you how to optimize it. It would take a little bit more time, but I'm just actually realizing that page scores is like 94 and stuff. That one of my most popular blogs ever, I actually did with this thing. So I probably should have stuck with it. Oops but well, I use my text now, like it's basically the transcript of what I do and video so we probably have to tweak it a bit, but I am super fascinated.

Kendra: I have a quick question, so in regards to our podcast show notes, because we were briefly talking about show notes there, we just take the transcript for our episode and upload it into the blog post. Is that good or is that bad or should we actually have our podcast manager summarize the episode and just do the main points? What do you think would be better from an SEO perspective?

Stephanie: What I recommend is to actually do both. So it's good to have your transcript page, with your podcast in it, and the reason is that, voice searches on the rise, and in fact you have your podcast, and you have your subtext and what's happening is that Google has in the last I believe, I think it's been around for about not even six weeks. So what I've started doing is, Google actually goes in the podcast and transcribes it and puts it in the searchable code of your website, so Alexa and Google Home can find it.

Kendra: Cool.

Stephanie: But the two [inaudible 00:28:31] automatic one, is really bad so far compared to transcription tools like and if the transcription's still quite bad, what does one improve?

Stephanie: So it does help to have your own transcription, because Google is going to start using that more and more now, but only to serve your audio.

Kendra: Okay, right.

Stephanie: So if you're trying to rank, in order to grow your list, and to serve your freebie and to get them into your super fast funnel, [crosstalk 00:29:03]. So make a good freebie, [inaudible 00:29:08].

Christine: It was a great freebie, on our podcast homepage, right,, there's an awesome freebie on there. And our followers, one email.

Kendra: One email.

Stephanie: See what I mean? That's all you need. All you need to do is ask.

Stephanie: Great, what you can do then is, you can get your transcription and turn it into an interesting blog post and that gives you, you know, just gets the ... And probably add more information. See this is something I do with my lives. So, I do lives and of course people like to absorb things on video, but they also read, and we think people don't read, but when you see people walking down the street like this, they're reading, they're not watching video and walking. It's a very likely [inaudible 00:30:02].

Stephanie: People do read, so what we need to do is make sure that they stay on the page. So to have something that either a specialist or something somebody said on the podcast, and then always add more information. I always do this. There'll always be something that I can't expand on, like for instance, we talked about tools today.

Kendra: Yeah.

Stephanie: We talked about ones that, I don't know, if you broke that down-

Kendra: I know I keep bringing that up.

Christine: She's not letting go.

Stephanie: I do have a one step for her though, it's a little more complex than that, but if you actually put more information there, and people have a reason to go to your website, then you have the opportunity to serve them your freebie or to get them to jump on your newsletter. So it's one of those things and if people just watch the podcast and they're just happy to just do that, it's fine. If they want to take it further and go deeper, then you take them to a different page.

Kendra: True.

Stephanie: Yes.

Christine: Sorry, I needed to sneeze. Now that is a very good point, that's a super great point actually. So one more question that I have is, for me was, SEO was mainly on a blog and then you can add hashtags. I know that Tamara, bless her, I love her so much, she just looks at what I've been talking about and then she includes often the same hashtags and then some that are related. She makes them up to what I was just talking about. Is that worth it? Should you just add one hashtag then? Is it working at all?

Stephanie: Well, first of all on blogs, we call them tags, not hashtags.

Christine: Sorry.

Stephanie: I'm just making sure we're talking about the same thing.

Christine: Okay.

Stephanie: Because if you use the hashtag then you put it on social media, but on the website, you just put a normal tag because if you put the hash in front, and some people do that, then it's not a word, kind of thing.

Christine: Interesting. Got to check. Okay.

Stephanie: I'm pretty sure if you just put [inaudible 00:32:27] normally so, it's just this tag, and you put it in and the words just does whatever it does with the tags. It does help to have one or sometimes two, but I'll tell you a very good place to store them actually. The best place to store it is on Google itself. So you know if you go in to Google and you type, I don't know, can't sleep,

Christine: For example.

Stephanie: That's right, you're going to find a lot of, you get your ads on the top and you get your results, and at the very bottom, you scroll down, you'll see that it gives you related searches. And those are the topics that Google has already connected you to that particular keyword. So if we give Google that connection, it's going to find it easier to understand that you're, you're [inaudible 00:33:20], if so you could call it.

Kendra: Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, so I'm looking at this right now on Google and so I'm seeing it right at the bottom, searches related to can't sleep. And then it has, I'm tired but I can't sleep, things to do when you can't sleep, can't sleep anxiety, can't sleep thinking too much. And then it actually tells me, and it's probably because I have some plugin on here, but it tells me the cost per click.

Christine: Oh it does!

Kendra: Yeah, I think I have keywords everywhere on here, maybe, but it tells me the cost per click, and I'm looking at how to sleep fast in five minutes and that's 29000 per month. So that's if I'm doing organic traffic, maybe I should use that as a keyword? Is that kind of, am I thinking about this properly? This is amazing.

Stephanie: It sounds like a good keyword. You also need to check your competition.

Kendra: Right. How do I do that?

Stephanie: Using the keyword tools.

Kendra: Okay. And I don't want too much competition, so I want to hide price tag but I don't want to have too much competition, ideally.

Stephanie: What you want to do [inaudible 00:34:23] hide price tag, it doesn't mean [inaudible 00:34:30] keyword, but starting with [inaudible 00:34:35] helps because what happens is, remember we spoke about the categories that we have. We have one keyword at the top, which is high competition and high return probably. What we do is and you have your keywords within that cluster, in that category, that ideally are low competition. And what we want to do is, we want to rank those because they will push the rank for the whole keyword cluster and help you add the top keyword in the long-term.

Christine: Got it. Yeah, so you have this little army of low ranking keywords, pushing your high ranking keywords amongst the competitors who through a lot of money at it, right? And you come from the underground, as a renegade thing, I like that. I can live with that. I can work with that.

Kendra: I have another question too, so I'm looking at these searches related to can't sleep, and there's one that says, what to do when you can't sleep and are bored, and it says zero per month, and then zero dollars. So when it says zero, does that mean that people aren't actually searching for that or should I ignore that, or is that good?

Stephanie: If it says zero, it depends obviously if your tool is referring to the price, because it could be just, if it's a greater price, then it might still be a good keyword, if it has traffic and low competition. It [inaudible 00:36:01] necessarily have Pay-Per-Click, because if it doesn't have Pay-Per-Click, all it means is that, there isn't a product or service that it very closely connected to it.

Kendra: Right.

Stephanie: But it doesn't mean there's no interest. So you know you could get a lot of traffic that jumps on your list from that, even though maybe they're not ready to buy a product. A lot of these keywords are actually selling products that you can just click and buy.

Kendra: Right, interesting.

Christine: I didn't know which video to do today, I'm going to do the video about what to do when you can't sleep and you're bored. [inaudible 00:36:36] figure out if this is going to bring in gazillions of billions.

Kendra: Well, it's a good topic, because when I can't sleep, I'm pretty fucking bored.

Christine: Exactly, and you also find that for a lot of people, it's physical and in that case, I could actually make something smart out of it.

Stephanie: That's a good idea. That's really how I became programmer, through insomnia. I got like my first non dial-up connection, and there were other people awake on the other side of the planet, and I was like yay!

Christine: No Stephanie, that's not how you're supposed to do it.

Stephanie: This was like two decades ago.

Christine: So we've got the blog covered. I understand. I understand how to structure it. I know what keywords to prepare for for next year. Got it, I'm ready. Now you also said that you can use it for social media. So, Kendra and I and people who've been listening hopefully to our first or second episode, have the same structure of where we use one piece of content and then, similar to you, what you do, we do a live, we'll video and then we do a transcript that we form into a blog post and we use it on podcast, audio, we use it on our Instagram, we use snippets for Facebook, for Twitter and so forth and Pinterest, so those are, we basically go out and use YouTube and use all our social media platforms with this piece of content. So how do I do what we've just discussed for the blog, for other social media platforms? It seems obvious to me that for something like Twitter, I literally use the hashtag, how would I implement this for YouTube or Instagram or Facebook? Is it the hashtag thing or is it just embedded in the content?

Stephanie: So, probably the most important one would be YouTube. Now, with YouTube there's actually a lot of SEO experts will tell you to [inaudible 00:38:50] your work in the very beginning. Because YouTube is great because when you change something, you can see instant changes. So if you want to test a keyword or see how a video is ranking, you know Google kind of copies the internet and indexes it and you know it's not live, it takes a long time to work through the date, but YouTube is live. So you can see the changes really quick.

Christine: Very cool.

Stephanie: On the other hand, I have also heard, I'm not a YouTube expert but, I do follow a lot of SEO people so, I hear a lot about YouTube. And after you publish a video and you change the title, apparently YouTube does not change it in its database, so you have to make sure you publish it with the right title, right away.

Christine: Okay.

Stephanie: So that's definitely something I would, I've been cautioned to do.

Christine: Don't fuck up the title. Got it!

Stephanie: No, keywords, you know so you'll see a lot, including on my channel where you have the keyword, like you know, I don't know, blog traffic and then how do I grow my traffic? So that's because the keyword works better in the beginning and you can't always make sensible sentence out of it.

Christine: I love that! That's hilarious, you just take your keywords, dinner and then a subtitle. Yeah. Works.

Kendra: I love it and I love YouTube. YouTube has actually worked really well for my business. I realized the power of it when this one video, that had really low production value, but the content is good, got over, I think I have almost 40000 views on it and like, pretty much when I was doing primarily health coaching, all my clients came to me through that one video. And I was just like, okay there's something to this. And that video is three years old and people are still contacting me for it, even though I don't really work in that space anymore, so I think it can work really well for you, but yeah, I think it's a really good point that YouTube is also a search engine, and I like that it works so quickly and I didn't realize that Google took so much longer but yeah, with YouTube, if you can get a video working for you, it can bring people into your business for years.

Christine: Great! And it's random, like last time someone found me because I did a review in partnership with Timeshifter on their app for Jet Lag with the Summit 2 watch from Montblanc, and he was like, I was looking for reviews, and I found this YouTube Video, and I was like, this lady has a lot of time, and then I found an article, and I was like, I know this lady! And it was basically my blog post, and he was like, what is this lady actually doing? And he wrote me an email, to tell me how cool he found my website and all of that kind of stuff. It's just so cute, and it's just to show you have YouTube, all of these things are working together, It's mind boggling to me.

Christine: So don't fuck up the headline. What else can you do?

Stephanie: Well you need to leave quite a long description ideally and in YouTube, a long description using your keywords again, optimize it, pepper it. And also, try not to make it a direct transcript of the video.

Christine: Got it.

Stephanie: I see lots of people do that and I don't think it ... it doesn't come across as what a description should be.

Christine: Got it, yeah.

Stephanie: And another thing that really helps is playlists. So you can add your reviews to playlists, to your own, and you can also have playlists where you have your own reviews and other people's. So if you want to appear next to Jodie Spencer's videos, then you might create a [crosstalk 00:42:28], a playlist with his keywords. Now it's not necessarily going to happen quick because in order to be the featured video, it does help to sort of hint with playlists, as to what kind of content you want to be served for but in order to be served as a featured video or a suggested video, you need to have that kind of, like you mentioned Kendra, you know your video was doing really well, and when they see that it's kind of doing really well in the beginning, then they kind of help it, because it starts being suggested and featured, so it keeps ranking.

Stephanie: I also find that I've got like, I don't really use YouTube much, I use it mostly to share videos with clients and sort of thing, but I have one video that ranks in Google, and it's got thousands of views. And people do get in touch with me although, again, it's about a tool that coaches use, which is Zoom, but it's not specifically about what I do.

Kendra: Right.

Stephanie: It can be very powerful.

Kendra: Yeah, agreed. So I want to ask if you think this is a good strategy, because this is what I do with my YouTube videos, I usually pick like 10 tags. I use an app, or a plugin called TubeBuddy, which helps me search and determine, which are like, it gives a word a weighting. Like I'll type in like fatigue for women, or something like that, and it will tell me, fair, good, like is that a good option for keyword, so I'll do like 10 tags and then what I'll do is I'll just create a description, using each tag.

Kendra: So my description sounds really robotic, because I'm just using the tags, but I get every single tag in the description, and I feel like nobody really reads it anyways. Do you think that's a good strategy?

Stephanie: It sounds like a good strategy. I can understand, it sounds a little bit humorous, but yes, there are a lot of tools out there. There's keyword research tools that you can use specifically for YouTube.

Kendra: Yip.

Stephanie: Sounds like a good one. Yes, you can definitely use more than one tag in YouTube, so you don't have the one keyword rule in YouTube.

Kendra: Okay, got it.

Christine: I'm going to go and read Kendra's descriptions now, just to [crosstalk 00:44:59]. I still read descriptions actually. I'm one of the weirdos who watches the YouTube videos and then clicks, first of all to see when the date was, and then I'm reading the description. I'm such a weirdo.

Kendra: That's amazing.

Christine: Okay so we have blog post and then our best friend, Google. We have YouTube. We discussed show notes for podcasts. Well, Twitter I guess a little bit with hashtags. Any of the other social media platforms that you know are really great, like Pinterest or something like that? Pinterest is like this underdog thing. I find that some people are-

Kendra: So people are crushing it on Pinterest.

Christine: Crushing it on there. So is that something you know about?

Stephanie: Yes well, Pinterest, I'm certainly no expert. If I had to start doing Pinterest, I'd probably hire and expert, but I'll send you what I know about Pinterest. So, I think the strength of Pinterest is that it's 90% women. And 80% of the [inaudible 00:46:08] on the planet, are made by women, so if you're selling something, you need to be there. If you're selling something, especially that appeals to women like fashion, recipes, I'm pretty sure you both do Pinterest on a personal level, you know it's all [inaudible 00:46:28] and that sort of thing.

Christine: I might have a couple of vision boards on there.

Stephanie: So you know, we know we use it so we know how it can be effective. I do hear though that there are certain tools that I'm not aware of like you can create group boards, and you know, you can sort of get virality by having a kind of exchange of pins with other people, so that's the stuff I don't know much about, but it is also a search engine. People search in it.

Christine: Yes, agreed. I dabbled around with it like a year ago and I gained traction really quickly just by creating a specific board for sleep and sleep ideas, or best of sleep on Pinterest, something like that. And then I just had too much going on and I focused on it and I think you're right. I'm trying to squeeze Tamara to do it. I think I probably need to hire someone particularly to do it because I think it's a total gold mine we should explore Kendra.

Kendra: You know, especially because I think our audience is a lot of women as health coaches, Pinterest might be a good option for us to-

Christine: And you can get them with recipes, like sleep food or hormone food or mineral food or whatever. For me Pinterest is recipes, wedding dresses and like home décor and fashion probably, and holidays and vision boards.

Stephanie: When you think of wellness, you can probably go across so many categories that are already there. And you have a foot in each one and you're doing okay.

Christine: Amazing. Oh this is giving me hope that I can actually do this.

Stephanie: Yes you can get overwhelmed quite quickly but I do have a solution for overwhelm actually, and I'll give away a little trick that I use, and you can call it laziness.

Christine: I'm a big fan of laziness, I mean it's my middle name, Christine Lazy Hansen.

Kendra: Yes, I agree.

Stephanie: Or we could call it prioritizing, you know [inaudible 00:48:41] priority.

Stephanie: So the core, I believe the core of any online marketing strategy should be to build the traffic in the long-term and it depends what you're selling and what keywords you're using because I have clients that hit the first page of Google, in three weeks.

Christine: Wow! So like on the first page, if you look for sleep expert, and especially sleep [inaudible 00:49:08] adults, I'm number uno.

Stephanie: There you go. So you know, it can be easy, or it can be hard, depending on what you choose, but this is something you can learn quite easily. The good thing is that once you have that content, even if you're in an industry, maybe you haven't chosen fantastic keywords, or you're in an industry that's really competitive, you know that in six, eight months, maybe a year, you should still be seeing results. While you wait for that to happen, you can reuse the stuff that you're writing, for your social media so that you can get leads right away.

Christine: I have a question! So, as everyone, I am having trouble finding new content ideas because I wrote a blog post about pretty much everything that I can think of, and is it a good idea, because I know that Google want to be fresh and everything, so should I for example, write a completely new blog post, let's say parasites and sleep, do I write a completely new blog post, do I edit my old blog post, do I keep my old blog post or do I delete it and I have a new version of it? Any ideas there?

Stephanie: Okay so it depends on how much of it you're going to change. If you're just going to go in and maybe you weren't optimizing your blog post at the time, and you find a keyword for it and optimize it now, that really helps, but you're not going to change too much. Let's say you're going to change 20% of it.

Christine: Okay.

Stephanie: So, that Google sees as a positive thing, because it means that you're keeping your old content fresh, so you get [inaudible 00:50:52] for that.

Christine: Got it. Oh that's really interesting. Okay, so that would be better than deleting it and writing a completely new post.

Stephanie: It depends on how much of the information in its [inaudible 00:51:05], because if you need to change about 60% of it, then Google's still going to see it as a new post.

Christine: Okay.

Stephanie: So you might as well write it from scratch, optimize it properly, maybe try different title if it wasn't ranking. It might help you to go completely fresh if you're going to change, because Google will still see it as a new page.

Christine: Okay, okay I got it. Food for thought. I've been keeping them because I was just like, who on earth is going to go through all my blog posts and read all of them, nobody. So I just kept them for now, but I know that Google gets also upset, if you have old stuff that you don't update, so I was like, do I upset Google by keeping my old stuff and not doing anything with it, I'm not sure. Interesting.

Stephanie: Well it all depends, you need to do a content audit. So have a look at all your blog posts and see how well connected they are to each other in terms of topics, and how well organized they are on your side.

Christine: Not at all, most likely.

Stephanie: That's the first thing you need to do. If you see that once you've categorized everything, there are some posts that are obviously not fitting anywhere and they're not really so connected to what you do, it's better if you unpublish those.

Christine: Okay, got it. It's all in my 2020 bucket for now, but I think have an idea.

Christine: Good. Super helpful!

Stephanie: So, there is one trick that I wanted to share with you. Well connected to the question about social media before, because I think there's one little powerful thing that a lot of people don't know about, and you know Facebook, LinkedIn, all the social media platforms, they're the highest ranking platforms on the planet. So they have a very high authority, which means that if you get links back from them, they're going to count. They're going to count to give you authority and these days, search engines also read how much engagement you get when you post on social media, so it's definitely a plus.

Stephanie: Now what can really help as well is, when you're linking something back to a particular page or to your website, if you're using the keyword that you used in that particular page, in the text that's actually linking back, then it's going to have Google understand what you're about even more.

Christine: Right.

Stephanie: Because of course it's other people talking about you.

Christine: Right, got it!

Stephanie: Google of course, like anybody, you believe what other people say about themselves. Google believes what other people say about you, more than what you say about yourself basically.

Christine: Interesting.

Stephanie: Which is a very human thing to do.

Christine: Yeah, totally. Makes sense.

Stephanie: So everything that gets pushed out there, just make sure it's got the right keyword, or the right topic, and you know, you don't have a post that's talking about something really like, I don't know, we don't sell medication. Don't talk about it and then link it back to your site.

Christine: Right, yeah. This is fascinating, like tomorrow's to do list has just grown! But I think this is so helpful because we throw a lot of things out there and now actually I think I'm going to stop and think for a second, before I do [inaudible 00:54:54].

Stephanie: There's a very good tool, that allows me to do all of this from my website. So I actually don't go anywhere, to social media, I don't go to any tools to schedule posts. I just do it all from my WordPress site. I use a plugin called Nelio. It's N-E-L-I-O.

Christine: Okay.

Stephanie: What it does is, once you've finished writing your blog post, and you've put in all your images, you've optimized it in Yoast, it's got a very nice button called, Auto-fill my Social Media.

Christine: I do like that.

Stephanie: And what it does is, say I've connected it to all my social media. It doesn't work with Instagram, because most automatic tools don't because they're always disconnecting, but it works with everything else. It's got a Pinterest option as well, which I'm waiting to use. I haven't used it yet. And what it does is that you can can go in the page, you've got the post at the bottom, and if you want to add additional images for Facebook, or maybe you want to change your Pinterest picture, or you want to make maybe, I make usually my Facebook posts, I make them much longer. So you can go in an edit what it's done automatically, and then once you've scheduled your posts say to go out on Wednesday morning, a few minutes later, everything will be pushed out to social media.

Christine: Yeah, I'm using something similar called Missinglettr, that's what I use. So it just, [inaudible 00:56:27] and all but it's doing the same thing kind of.

Kendra: Interesting. Okay. Very cool.

Christine: That's amazing.

Stephanie: I love the fact that you can do it all in one page and you don't have to go anywhere else.

Kendra: I will check it out, and we'll put it in the show notes for sure.

Christine: We will, yip.

Christine: All right so, I think we've been blowing each other's minds for an hour. Yeah, my little brain is like wow!

Kendra: And I know Stephanie, you mentioned having a free gift for our people, 10 steps to more leads, can you tell us a little more about that and why our listeners should definitely go grab that right now?

Stephanie: Yes, so I have a freebie about how to get leads from your website and basically goes through all of the things that you need to have in place, so if there are a few things that maybe you didn't catch, like the funnel or you know, just to make sure you starting at least with everything in place. This is a good place to start.

Christine: Right, perfect. So if you're not a lazy as us, and you want to do it properly, then that might be a good idea to download that. So where do they go to download that, to get in touch with you and if they're like, okay I really want more help with that, or I just want someone to coach me on how to write my blogs more efficiently, and all of that good stuff, where do they find you?

Stephanie: They can find me on my site which is

Kendra: So spell that for us maybe because there's so many ways of spelling Stephanie and Fiteni I guess.

Stephanie: Yes, Stephanie's with a PH so it's S-T-E-P-H-A-N-I-E and Fiteni is F-I-T-E-N-I.

Kendra: Perfect, so you can find Stephanie there.

Christine: Well I thought this was worthy, at least five stars on [crosstalk 00:58:19].

Stephanie: I agree, I agree.

Christine: So a good keyword here would probably be SEO for Health Coaches, you know, I'm just brainstorming, we'll implement immediately what we've learned, see.

Stephanie: [inaudible 00:58:35], we've got to check.

Christine: So thank you so much for this. Seriously this has been a lot of amazing content that you've been sharing with us here. I'm really, really thankful for this, that we were able to pick you mind this way and ruthlessly ask all our questions. So thank you so, so much!

Stephanie: Oh you're very welcome, it's been great to share the information with you and I'm really happy to be here. Thank you so much for having me and I'll definitely be watching more of your pod casts.

Christine: Yes!

Stephanie: All of them.

Kendra: All of them. Well thank you so much and guys, five start review and if you guys are on Instagram, make sure to screenshot this episode. As you're listening on your smartphone, you can mention 360 Health Biz Podcast. Let us know your take aways and we'll share your story to our stories, so we can all just help each other out. And guys we will see each other in a week, with the next awesome episode. Bye!

How to Get More Views Using IGTV (and Dominate Instagram)


Are you feeling clueless when it comes to Instagram TV or IGTV? Maybe you're wondering, "Should I use it? How can I make it work for you? Is it actually worth using?" Well I'm going to break down for you on what IGTV is and how to use it to get more views to your account.

When Instagram first released IGTV, it was a total fail, but it is a failure no more because Instagram just released some very powerful features that make it absolutely worth using. When I started using Instagram TV videos, I saw 5 to 10 times more engagement and views than any other type of content I was posting on Instagram. So it worked for me and I promise it will work for you too.

So what is IGTV? IGTV is basically Instagram's app to allow you to post longer-form video. With Instagram TV, it is a vertical video, you record it with your smartphone, so super low maintenance, super easy, and the video is between one and 10 minutes. This makes it a perfect tool for educating your ideal client because you have up to 10 minutes to do so, which is lots of time to teach your ideal clients something. In order to access the IGTV app, it is a separate app than Instagram. The two do link together, but you do need to go and download the Instagram TV app so that you can start uploading your videos.

Now, the first piece of advice I'm going to give you about IGTV, is your thumbnail really matters. The new feature that Instagram just added is, now when you post an IGTV video, it actually automatically populates into your Instagram feed. This makes it way more likely that people are going to see and find your video. But if you don't add a custom thumbnail to your video when you upload it, a random picture of your face is just going to populate into your feed. That's actually not going to tell anyone why they should actually watch that video. One important thing to keep in mind is, Instagram actually will zoom in on the center of the image. So you want to make sure your texts or whatever it is that tells your person what the video is about is restricted to the very middle of the image. You're going to have to test with this, but this is very important. It means that new followers to your feed can scroll down and see the name of the videos you've posted, which means they're going to be way more likely to go in and actually watch that video.

My next tip is keep your video short and to the point. It's really easy to ramble on, especially when you have up to 10 minutes, but I actually recommend that you try to keep your videos about five minutes or less. People don't have much attention span these days and it's going to be way more likely that they're going to watch your entire video when it is less than five minutes and it doesn't ramble on too long. Make sure to write down your points on a Post-it Note, stick it next to the top of your camera, next to your phone, so that when you look at your points, you're still looking at the camera, so that you can stay on track and properly educate your ideal client.

The next awesome thing you can do with IGTV in order to promote it and let your audience know that you've posted it, is to actually promote it in your story. You can make a quick video or a quick graphic and you can actually create a swipe up feature even if you don't have 10,000 followers. All you need to do is upload your video or your image to IGTV, and there's a little link button in the top left hand corner. Click the link, select the IGTV video that you just posted, and then let the people know in that video with a sticker that tells them to swipe up. When they swipe up, it's going to go to that IGTV video and then they can watch it.

I have one more bonus tip for you! The description when you upload your IGTV can actually contain a clickable link. So people can actually click on that description and it will take them outside of Instagram. This is really juicy, especially for those of you who don't yet have 10,000 followers. Use it strategically. Do you have a lead magnet or an awesome freebie that is related to the IGTV video that you just did? If so, link to it and make sure in the video you tell people to click the arrow in the top right corner, and that way they can click that link and get that freebie.

Happy IGTV-ing!

Engage Instagram Followers (TO CREATE RAVING FANS!)


Do you feel like your Instagram posts are falling a little flat lately? Do you feel like you create all this great content, but every time you post, you just get crickets? Tune in and watch this video, because I'm going to give you five tips on how to increase your Instagram engagement and create raving fans who want so much more from you.

If you are a health coach or any other type of online coach who wants online business and marketing tips to grow your business, make sure to subscribe to my channel and hit the bell, so you get notified every single Thursday when I post a new video. And if you're super confused as to why your Instagram followers don't seem to give a crap about all the great content you post, by the end of this video, I'm going to give you five super juicy tips to help increase the engagement of your Instagram followers. I went from having total crickets on my Instagram account to regular likes, comments, views, and even DMS, with every single piece of content I post. So if I can do it, you can do it, too.

So tip number one, first off, you need to make sure that you are posting really good, high quality content. You actually need to put some effort into it. If your content isn't good, then there's really nothing you can do to actually increase the amount that people want to engage with it. So first off, make sure you're providing very high quality content. Think of who your ideal client is and what types of things would actually help them in their healing journey, or whatever it is that they are trying to solve. So back in the day with social media and with Instagram, it actually made sense to be posting every single day or even multiple times a day. These days, quality matters way more than quantity.

So how often should you be posting to Instagram? Well, I would say you should be posting as often as you can produce high quality content. If you can do that five days a week, all the power to you. I know I can't, but if you can only post one high quality piece of content a week, then that is fine. Just make sure you're providing a really good value in the Instagram posts that you post to your feed. So for example, long form captions do much better these days. Instagram wants you to actually keep people on Instagram, so post maybe once or twice a week on Instagram. Use a long form caption and just make sure that it provides value and actually gives your ideal clients something that can help them in their journey.

Number two is that you actually have to ask your followers to engage. If you don't ask them to engage, they don't know to engage. Funny enough, people actually like to be told what to do. I mean, I hate being told what to do, but most people, they want to be told what to do. So if you are creating an Instagram story and IGTV or a post for your feed, ask your people a question. Ask them to comment, ask them to like, ask them to double tap, ask them to do something, and they might actually just do it. So every time you write a caption, make sure that you ask them questions during the caption, and at the end, you could say something like, "What is your biggest struggle with your health? Comment and let me know." If you buy into this post, if you love this post, give me a strong arm emoji. Ask them to engage. When you ask, you receive.

Number three is to use IGTV or Instagram TV. So this is Instagram's new app. It was rolled out about a year ago, and it actually allows you to post longer form videos. So video up to ten minutes. And right now, Instagram really wants to push IGTV. And for this reason, your Instagram TV videos are going to get probably five to ten times more engagement than any other piece of content that you might post on Instagram. This is the experience that I was having. My posts are getting less engagement. My stories do pretty well, but my IGTV videos are getting so much more traction. So if you're not currently utilizing IGTV, you need to start using it now. And if you guys are wondering what the heck is IGTV, and how can I optimize it, make sure to watch my video, How to Get More Views Using IGTV.

Number four is get to know the IG story feature. There's all kinds of new features that you can actually use to engage with your audience. For example, there is the ask me a question feature. There is the chat feature where you can invite, I think, 32 people into a chat to actually engage with them. You can create a poll, you can ask them to send you a DM. There are so many different stickers and emojis and GIFs that you can use on your IG stories to actually get your people to engage with you. So your homework is to go on your IG stories right now and experiment with some of those features.

Number five is to reach out and engage with your followers. So outreach is something I still do, even though I have 9,000 plus followers on my Instagram account. So anytime someone follows you, who you believe fits into that ideal client of yours, go into the DMs and send them a message, a personal message, not one of those cheesy automated replies. Those actually piss me off a little bit, so don't do that. Please don't do that. But what you can do is you can go send people a personal message or, even better, you can send them a voice message. So this is something that I love to do with any new followers who follow me if they look like they're an ideal client.

So for me, it might be a health coach or some other type of online coach, I actually send them a DM voice message and I say, "Hey, thank you for following my account. I really appreciate it. I was looking through your feed and I noticed this, or I noticed that. That's really cool. And hey, I'm wondering, what's your biggest struggle in your business? I'm creating some free content right now and I love to take inspiration from my followers." And if they get back to you, especially if they send you back a voice message, that is really high quality engagement that ranks super high in the Instagram algorithm. And what that means is they are going to be way more likely to see your stories and your posts in their feed. Because what that tells Instagram is that they like your content.