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5 Important Lessons from Social Media Marketing World 2019

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About This Episode:Social Media Marketing World gathered the top experts in business and marketing from around the world to discuss what is working right now in social media.

The girls attended several workshops and talks and some common themes became apparent. Many of the experts said similar things about what you need to do if you want to be successful running your business in 2019.

The most common theme is that bigger is NOT better. In fact, bigger is often worse. This is great news for coaches who have just started their health practice and for those who have smaller followings. What matters the most is true human connection and relationships. In today’s marketing world, you can’t hide behind the face of  brand or a logo. That doesn’t work. You need to actually talk to your people, ask them what they want and ask them how you can serve them. And most importantly, remember that each and everyone of your followers is a person; a real, live human being and not just a number.

You fav health biz ladies break down their most valuable lessons learned from top marketing experts including; Sue Zimmerman, Pat Flynn, Amanda Bond, Park Howell and Michael Stelzner.

We give you the best tips in Facebook ads, Instagram stories, Storytelling and the top trends in social media in 2019.


Transcript:

Kendra:                   Hello, hello everyone! Welcome to the 360 Health Biz Podcast. I am your host, Kendra Perry, and I'm joined today with my lovely and beautiful and sexy and unbelievable cohost Christine Hansen. She's got her glass of wine because it's night time for her and she's definitely going to be going ...

Christine:              Saturday night it's bad ass rock star.

Kendra:                   It's Saturday afternoon for me. We're working on the weekend, working hard. But we are recording this episode kind of on the fly because we have some really important information to bring to you guys and we wanted to make sure that we got it to you as soon as possible. Because if you guys follow us on Instagram @360healthbizpodcast which you definitely should if you're not and you are following our stories, you would have seen that we met in person for the very first time. That was very exciting. We were at the Social Media Marketing World Conference and it was awesome. We definitely highly recommend it. It was time well spent and we learned quite a bit at the conference, and we really want to share some of the very powerful things that we learned because we believe it will help you growing your business.

Christine:              Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. We were really lucky. There were tons of workshops, and every workshop that we took taught us something new and we definitely would drill it down to the three most important lessons that we're going to pack together here for you. So you're getting the conference on steroids basically.

Kendra:                   Yes.

Christine:              Alright so [crosstalk 00:01:32]

Kendra:                   Give me that conference on steroids! Don't worry. It's not appropriate.

Christine:              No, but I mean, since when are we appropriate? Oh guys. You should've been with us. Seriously, the conversations we had it was just ... It was hilarious.

Kendra:                   It was ridiculous.

Christine:              Oh it was wonderful. Let's get started. The first thing we wanted to talk to you about was actually from the keynote talk, which was on the second day. Kendra and I, we had all-access passes so we actually started a day early in comparison to just the general public, which makes me feel very posh, and the keynote, the officially keynote, was on the second day by Michael Stelzner in the morning. And I think the main ... What you can drill everything down to that we heard at the conference was that it's not bigger and better anymore but better is bigger. And I love to hear that message because I've tried a long time to get numbers. Grow your email list, grow your Facebook page, grow numbers, numbers, numbers, numbers, and it really, really has come back to that's not the point.

                                    And we saw that in influence on marketing, for example, coming to think of it. Kendra and I, we attended a conference that was basically meant for people who are looking for influencers.

Kendra:                   Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Christine:              So we were basically listening in what we should provide, as people who are looking for influencers, and a very big takeaway was that micro and nano influencer. So nano influencer would be up to ... No. What was it? Nano first [crosstalk 00:03:08]

Kendra:                   I think nano is [crosstalk 00:03:09] below 10, 000.

Christine:              I think-

Kendra:                   And then ...

Christine:              Micro was up to 10, 000.

Kendra:                   Yeah. It was something like that, but for all you people who have less than 10, 000 followers [crosstalk 00:03:18]

Christine:              Exactly.

Kendra:                   On Instagram, right?

Christine:              Those are actually the hot influencers that companies are looking for, because it's niched, it's not diluted, you still have authentic fans there while there's only huge, huge, Instagram accounts where engagement is not necessarily there or when not genuine interest is there. So, I found that really interesting, and the whole conversation was along that line. So one case study that we were taught was that he did an experiment about one of their videos. They have a little show where they publish weekly videos, and he published it on Facebook and he published it on YouTube and he got over 20, 000 views on Facebook but it wasn't promoted because Facebook said it didn't perform too well. And he was wondering why, so he investigated and tracked all the different steps and it turned out that out of the 20, 000 people, and it was a little bit more I think, 19. Only 19 finished the video.

Kendra:                   Yeah.

Christine:              But YouTube, he had a lot less people who started watching ... I think it was just 2, 000-

Kendra:                   But he had about 60% finish.

Christine:              Exactly! So [crosstalk 00:04:26]

Kendra:                   Yeah.

Christine:              68% versus 19 [inaudible 00:04:28] people, right? So, the conversion is very different. His takeaway was you need to know which platform to use for what and again, it's not about quantity.

Kendra:                   Yeah.

Christine:              So, I loved this because Kendra and I, this is much more an integrity for what we do.

Kendra:                   Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Christine:              We both don't have massive ... 20, 50, 000 people email us, but our businesses are very successful. So, I think this was really nice to hear and basically, we both said it's confirmation that what we're doing is right.

Kendra:                   Yeah, and I felt like I got a lot of validation and over that couple days of "Yeah, we're doing the right things," and I loved what he said about the Facebook thing because think about when you're watching a Facebook video. There's notifications popping up. Those little notifications pop up on the left now. Facebook doesn't actually want you to stay on and watch these long form video.

Christine:              Yeah.

Kendra:                   They're trying to distract you, and that's why a lot of people aren't watching the video from start to finish that maybe is a 20 or 30 minute long video because they're so distracted by everything Facebook is trying to do. Whereas your YouTube people, they're on YouTube, they go on YouTube to watch videos, they are coming in without expectation and there's no distractions for the most part, right? They just see that video. So ...

Christine:              Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kendra:                   I thought that was really interesting. If you're gonna put all your effort into editing and creating this beautiful video series, it's probably gonna do way better on YouTube and you're probably gonna create better relationships that way than on Facebook.

Christine:              It's definitely going to perform better. I mean, the science is there and also the statement that Mark Zuckerberg did was basically that they don't want people to waste time on social media, which is hilarious as he's running Facebook, but that was his statement. That they want to encourage people not to mindlessly idle on social media. So they want to be more targeted, they really want to perform more quality content, and they don't want people to just zone out and watch cat videos anymore. So, no basically.

Kendra:                   I know that's super fun to do.

Christine:              Do tell that to the Dodo. The Dodo page is my downfall. I spend hours crying whenever I go to-

Kendra:                   Oh no! Why? What is it?

Christine:              The Dodo is about rescue animals of all [crosstalk 00:06:43]

Kendra:                   Aw.

Christine:              Animals and rescue and stories of ... It's just like ... Aw, dude. It's such a ... Just this vortex of cute.

Kendra:                   Oh my god.

Christine:              But I love it. So, in general, Facebook's trying to not make you do that. So, that was a big takeaway.

Kendra:                   Yeah.

Christine:              Lessly in terms of marketing, but also in terms of really look at the platform tries to do and it's not about quantity anymore. It really, really isn't. So that was-

Kendra:                   Yeah, and I think what does better on Facebook too is the live video He did talk about that because if you're on a live video, you can actually be engaging with your people. It's not just you talking at people, and Facebook really wants you to engage. They want you to have meaningful conversations. So, you can't do that if you just make a beautiful video and dump it out onto your Facebook page, but if you're on there live, then you can actually be having those conversations with people as that video unfolds. So ...

Christine:              Yeah.

Kendra:                   Mm-hmm (affirmative). Way better place for live video.

Christine:              Exactly. Consistently, live video seems to be the secret sauce and he gave the example of ... What's her name? Rachel Hollis? Is that her name?

Kendra:                   I believe so. Yeah.

Christine:              She's doing a coffee video-

Kendra:                   Oh yeah.

Christine:              Every morning, and she has thousands and thousands of people interacting with her. Definitely not something that I would do, but as an example that it works.

Kendra:                   Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Christine:              So ...

Kendra:                   Yeah. Totally.

Christine:              Very interesting. Then, the second workshop or actually, the first workshop that we did ... The first day, they were 90 minutes ...

Kendra:                   Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Christine:              They were really definitely more hands-on-

Kendra:                   Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Christine:              Was by and now, I'm super embarrassed because I don't remember his name.

Kendra:                   His name was Park Howl-

Christine:              There we go.

Kendra:                   And it was about storytelling, and yeah. That was another really common theme in the conference was tell stories. People love to hear stories. So how can you wind your story or your clan's stories into your marketing, into your copy, into the way that you're engaging with people? And during that workshop, he actually taught us how to create our own stories. So it was very actionable, and we really loved that. We both created stories. We actually created a story for this podcast while we were in San Diego.

Christine:              Oh yeah. We did. Where did we-

Kendra:                   Yeah. Yeah. We did, and he was a great speaker. I really loved how he brought in so many components and different media and humor and it was really great, but his kind of formula for storytelling ... A good story is the ABT, which is the 'and, but, therefore' framework, right?

Christine:              Yeah. Exactly. So, we actually ... Do you have our story on hand?

Kendra:                   Yeah. I do. I'm gonna read [crosstalk 00:09:18] it right now.

Christine:              Also, the ands, buts, therefore. So you have three paragraphs, and every good story ... And he gave examples of Air B and B having an ad. It was a cartoony kind of thing, and it was super nice about the Berlin Wall and how it brings people together. Air B&B and stuff. It was exactly that structure, and he gave a lot of examples and it's short, but it's super efficient and you can use it on your website, you can use it in your videos, you can use it everywhere. So, this is the example of what we came up for; the and, but, therefore.

Kendra:                   Okay. So it's both of us were working successfully in our health practices, and we really connected over the marketing component of our businesses after running a webinar series together on public speaking. But, we also discovered that selling health is very different than selling other products and other types of services, and most health coaches and professionals are taught an outdated business model; one that fails to get them clients without burning out. Therefore, we created the 360 Health Biz Podcast to teach health coaches and professionals how to use health specific marketing strategies that actually work and keep them up to date with the latest health research.

Christine:              I love it. You know, that should be our intro. It's so good.

Kendra:                   Yeah. It is so good. We could probably tailor it down a little bit, but yeah. You get that ... So we have that first thing, which is our statement. This is our statement about re- [crosstalk 00:10:44] us, our relationship, how we met, and then that but. But we found that there was this issue. There was this problem. There was this struggle.

Christine:              The struggle.

Kendra:                   Therefore, we created the solution, right?

Christine:              Which is us, right?

Kendra:                   Yeah.

Christine:              Exactly, and if you want to go more into depth, he also says the story elements, if you really want to make sure you don't miss anything, it's the when, the where, the who, the what, and the ah-hah, right? So, and he had a 10 step method that he talks about. So, what makes it different, and then, they are the hero of the story when you talk about your customers. It's not about you. It's about them, what they stand to gain or lose by not working with you, what has happened or is happening in their lives right now that is changing, that is making your service more timely urgent and relevant than ever before. Competitive, time, money, voice of fear that keeps them from working with you. So objection. Then, reinforcing that you are the mentor so how you are uniquely equipped by wisdom et cetera. What do people tell themselves about you that you need to be able to connect with? What does their success look like? Those little milestones, so that they can picture it. What in the stories are our, your values, beliefs that they share? And then, what is your ask? What to do next?

                                    So that's basically, in a nutshell, the structure that he taught us afterwards in a more detailed example. So you have all of that right here, so take not. But ... Fantastic. I really think that if you get that done, whether it is in a blog post, whether it is in your mission statement video, whether it is on your about page, you are on the golden side. I think this is super, super important.

Kendra:                   Yeah. And I think it just makes it easier for yourself. Suddenly, you know how to talk in your marketing, and you can continue to share that story over and over on different platforms, to different subcategories in your audience and I think ... When you know what your story is, when you know what your values are, when you know what you stand for and how people can change their lives by connecting with you and buying your product or service, I mean, it makes everything a lot easier.

Christine:              Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kendra:                   Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Christine:              Gulp. Gulp.

Kendra:                   Well, yeah, yeah. I'm getting a little cut right now.

Christine:              When [inaudible 00:13:22] it's a nice line people. It was nice ... The minute [inaudible 00:13:28] right here. Alright. So that was storytelling, and then, connecting to that, we went to another workshop about Instagram stories because both of us really started to fall into the vortex of Instagram stories. It's hilarious. It's so much fun, but it's also super, super powerful, and so we were basically taught there's different components to Instagram stories. And she divided it into four buckets, and we were in a workshop that basically looked at one. So, can you remember the four buckets?

Kendra:                   So, I think the four buckets was Instagram in general. So it was Instagram live, it was the feed, it was IGTV, and it was stories. So, Instagram is kind of a beast and it's almost a bit of an overwhelming platform because you have four different of these pretty big buckets right, and they all ... The way you interact in each of hem is a little bit different, right? Your feed is gonna be more curated, more pretty, gorgeous pictures, really nice captions. Your IG live is more like your instant connection, really off the cuffs, but then it disappears after 24 hours. And then, you have your IGTV, which is longer form video. You get 10 minutes if you're under ... If you're not an approved account. So under 10K, but that's kind of your longer form video better for teaching, but then we have stories, right? And stories, like Christine said, are very powerful because they ... A lot of people are watching stories.

                                    More people on Instagram than any other of those buckets are going into the stories, and it's a great way to connect, it's a great way to be creative, it's a great way to really express your brand. So, we were learning a lot about how to specifically use stories to build a brand, but also, by using all the different features. And one big thing that she said, and this was a talk from Susan Urman. I like her. I loved her crazy dress and she was really fun and-

Christine:              Fun. Yeah.

Kendra:                   Animated. She was great, but she says to have a plan for your story. So ...

Christine:              Which we are so bad [crosstalk 00:15:26] at. Both of us looked at each other. Oh.

Kendra:                   We're just like bam, bam, bam, bam, but you know ... And that plan doesn't always have to be this big, educational piece. Sometimes that plan might just to be to share something from your personal life. But keep in mind that you should be trying to tell a story with it rather than just bam! Me eating. Bam! Me biking. Bam! Meal with my kid, or whatever, right? Actually trying [crosstalk 00:15:52] sequentially. Maybe in four of those posts, tell a story.

Christine:              Exactly. It might be that you are getting ready to put on your gear to bike. Then it might be your journey up the mountain, and then it might be a little snippet of you racing down, and then it might be a snippet of you in the hospital you know?

Kendra:                   I'll just take that selfie of myself as I race down the mountain on my mountain bike. We'll see how that goes. It will be like me eating shit and breaking my face [crosstalk 00:16:17] I'm gonna give it a go.

Christine:              Me and my broken face. But you get the caption.

Kendra:                   Yeah. Totally.

Christine:              And I'm trying to be more mindful now when I do the Instagram stories. Just is this worth sharing? Is this worth wasting people's time on, even if I do really like it?

Kendra:                   Wasting your own time too. It takes time to upload these. These are not things that you can schedule out in advance, right?

Christine:              No you can't.

Kendra:                   But you know, Christine, you made that story that I saw at the airport from when your flight got canceled, and I was blown away. I was like, "Holy shit! That was really good. She just crushed that story." And I was like, "How did you even do that?" It looked so good. It was a quality story. You even mentioned ECAM. You even got a good mention of the brand, which we now know that ECAM is a three-person company. So we're all up on them.

Christine:              We adore them.

Kendra:                   We adore them [crosstalk 00:17:15]

Christine:              Very nice. Yeah.

Kendra:                   But yeah. I was like, "Wow! I need to take lessons from you now."

Christine:              So let me tell you the story, actually, for you guys. So my flight was originally in the evening from San Diego to London, and then I had just about an hour layover, and then London Luxembourg. And in the morning, thank god I got an email or a notification that my flight in the evening was canceled, which would mean that my layover would only have been 17 minutes, which would have been impossible. It's too big. There's no way. So I called British Airways and I was re booked, but the only way that I could do this was if I had to go from L.A. So basically, I recorded my ode to stay from San Diego to Los Angeles and beyond, and it was not easy to get there because it was Sunday. I'm a little bit posh. So I didn't want to take the Am Track. It took me five Lyft and Uber drivers to actually find one who took me because they were like, "It's too far. I don't have time."

                                    Thank you Vincent from San Diego. Lyft driver. You are forever my savior, and basically, what I did was along the journey, I just took little snippets of the coast or of the environment or of wherever we were driving past and I used the following: So, when we were in the workshop, we were told that you should always use ... If you can, you should use the same filter, if you do use a filter. I don't so I didn't do that, and color. So I already decided on a color palette that reflects my branding, which is mainly pink. Bright pink, dark pink, and green. So I tried to stick to that. If you can, you can also use the same font. I tried ... I have two that I use mainly, and use stickers, use polls, location stickers, hashtag stickers, mention as much as you can, and swipe up if possible.

                                    And so ... And tag strategically and so forth. And so, I did that. I really tagged ... So obviously, I tagged every location. I used the location sticker wherever I went. So I actually got into stories of these locations. So, into San Diego's story. So when they see that ... When you tag location stories or when you take your location, they will pull you out and put you into their feed, which is super cool.

Kendra:                   Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Christine:              And then, I used GIF all the time to make it fun. And I mentioned ECAM because I have their stickers on my laptop now, so I just used that when I was in the business lounge, and you can basically see my journey through ... Along the coast, because he took the scenic route to LAX, to the business lounge, into the plane, and it was a story. It was just my journey and it was live and it took ... It takes three hours to get there. So it was fun to do. That said.

Kendra:                   Yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Christine:              So that worked, and there are different tricks that you can use to change the background color and all of these things. You can find them on YouTube. It's not that difficult to do, actually. But it really changed my opinion of stories, because you can get super creative and she compared it to scrap booking.

Kendra:                   Yeah.

Christine:              And that's a little bit what it is, because you want everything to be nice and fun and also, to typically make use of it. So, I'm really trying to each time, find a hashtag, mention someone if I can, and to use the location ... What's it called? Location sticker, I guess.

Kendra:                   Yeah. Just like where you tag the locations, but yeah. I think that's really cool, and I mean, it is a really cool place where you can engage and you should try to engage. One that I use all the time is the poll functions. You can ask little questions and people can vote. So that gets people to engage in your stories, and then there's also an Ask Me Anything sticker as well. So after you tell a story, you could've said, "Ask me anything about working from the road," or "Ask me anything about whatever you just told your story about" and then people can go in and they can ask you question and you can repost those stickers and have a quick video of you talking and answering the question or you can just do a text version of that.

Christine:              Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kendra:                   That's really cool too, and I see a lot of bigger accounts using that quite a bit. And people get really excited. I have a colleague who has an Ask Me Anything Tuesday or something like that, so people know that every Tuesday, they can go and ask her anything and then she's gonna answer all the questions. So I think, there's a lot of really cool ways you can engage your audience.

Christine:              Yeah, and also something that you suggested, and I haven't checked it out yet but it's the Unfold app?

Kendra:                   Oh yeah.

Christine:              It's called Unfold [crosstalk 00:21:52]

Kendra:                   What was that about?

Christine:              I have it in my notes. I don't remember what it is to be honest. It's use the Unfold app, and I think it's that you can actually use in your stories, you can use a grid.

Kendra:                   Hmm.

Christine:              So that you can use more than just the video; that you can actually use four pictures in [crosstalk 00:22:09]

Kendra:                   Oh yeah. I've seen that. I've seen that. That's cool. Okay.

Christine:              Yeah. So that's a little tidbit here of wisdom that I took in my notes. I took notes guys. I never took notes. I feel ... It goes to show that I would've forgotten everything if I hadn't taken notes and ... Oh yeah! And also, use older posts and share them in story. And I think that's amazing because I was thinking I have so many posts. I have my interviews three years ago when I was an entrepreneur on fire. I never use it. Why not? You know? Use it in your stories. Just take the graphic, use it, say 'link in bio' for that day, and it's true. You have so much content and because it's only there for 24 hours, you can repurpose so much.

Kendra:                   You can repurpose it. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely, and I know this is not from Social Media Marketing World but it is from the su- We saw Chalene Johnson who used to be the Beachbody lady and now she has her podcast, I believe is Build Your Own Tribe, but her son, Brock, does some episodes and he said ... Oh my gosh. I'm brain farting. And it's gone from my brain.

                                    Oh no! No I got it. It's back. When you do an Instagram live, it only stays for 24 hours, but you can save the Instagram live and put it onto IGTV. So I thought that was cool because then you're doing-

Christine:              Yeah.

Kendra:                   If you're gonna take that time to do a live video. It's a period after 24 hours, you might as well repurpose it somewhere else.

Christine:              Exactly. Yeah. And I actually mindlessly did Instagram live for different things. I was like, "Okay. This is not worth people's time." You know? So, in the end ... For me, in the beginning, Instagram was my personal life. I used Facebook for professional reasons. I have Instagram to push my [inaudible 00:23:58] and what I had for breakfast, and it completely changed to be honest. Because now, I consider myself as an influencer and I need to curate and prune my Instagram versus my Facebook private page. It's just that's where I now post my personal stuff and my Facebook business page nobody watches anyway, but that's where my business content goes as well.

Kendra:                   Yeah.

Christine:              I think the dynamics between Facebook and Instagram have completely flipped. Not for everyone, but for a lot of people.

Kendra:                   Yeah. I'm the same way as you. I used to use Facebook like crazy. I barely even use my personal page anymore. Sometimes, I go on there and ask for recommendations but I barely post anything on there, but I love Instagram. I am on it all the time. It's more engaging. More people. You get more reach, and from a business perspective, there's so many ways you can reach people on it, and it's tough with a Facebook business page, right? It's not an engaging platform, right? It's just [crosstalk 00:24:55]

Christine:              You're literally set up for ... Not necessarily completely, but I think it's more difficult and you have to be very smart about it. And again, get you to not be bigger is better and we saw that's what brings us to our last point that we want to share with you. We saw the absolutely, fantastic, amazing ...

Kendra:                   We have two points left, by the way.

Christine:              We do?

Kendra:                   Our second last ... Yeah. We have to talk about Pat Flynn.

Christine:              Yeah. See. So ... Oops. [crosstalk 00:25:24]

Kendra:                   That's why I'm here. That's why I'm here.

Christine:              Thank goodness for you guys. But we watched Amanda Bond, who I adore and I signed up for her Facebook app called ... And she basically just did the gist on their presentation.

Kendra:                   Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Christine:              What her main message is, and we're going to go into it in a little bit more detail, but it's that you cannot just tell people to opt into anything anymore. You cannot [inaudible 00:25:49] code audience, even if it means it's only asking for their email address.

Kendra:                   Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Christine:              So her strategy is that you really have to thought backwards. Your sell or your ask, even if ask, it's not even to sell something is the last thing you do. So, she starts out with just an engagement ads. Just making a statement, polarizing, asking questions. Maybe say that there's a blog post about it, but then she doesn't even do it in the ad. She does it in the comments.

Kendra:                   Mm-hmm (affirmative) [crosstalk 00:26:22]

Christine:              She doesn't cling to it.

Kendra:                   Literally just looking for it. Even ask a question to your audience that makes sense. If you are a food preparation expert, you can ask people what are your biggest issues with food prep or do you prefer to food prep on Sunday night or Friday night or whatever, right? Because then you can also get some more information about your audience that is ... It makes sense, but you know, at the same time, you're just getting people to engage and getting out in front of them. Seeing them, be like, "Hey. This is me."

Christine:              Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kendra:                   Just kind of starting to plant those seeds, and so that was her engagement ad.

Christine:              Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kendra:                   And then, what were her other two? There was testimonials and objections, right?

Christine:              Exactly. So testimony is where where she literally used testimonials from past clients, screenshots. It works really well for her if she uses Facebook app, obviously, because she can literally take a screenshot of the power editor and show results and then objections. She always has a sequence of three.

Kendra:                   Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Christine:              So, if you've seen the first one, then you get the second one, and then you get the third one. So she's really ... Every category from engagement to testimonial to objection has three ads. So it's nine in total, I believe. If I remember correctly, but it's very strategic, and she explains other strategies that she uses. And I think it makes complete sense, and again, it's not about the more it is. It's about being strategic, it's being personal, it's story related, it's not ... Old school marketing is just not working anymore and when I talk old school, I mean five years ago.

Kendra:                   Yeah. Old school ... It doesn't take long to become old school in today's world and online marketing. You know, just because you can get a cheap cost per lead when you're running a Facebook ad doesn't mean that's a high quality lead. That doesn't mean that that someone who's even gonna open your email and download your freebie or your lead magnet or whatever that is. That doesn't mean they're gonna end up buying eventually. So, I think I love her strategy because it builds that know like and trust factor for a fairly long time. So by the time she's actually asking people to do something, and I thought it was really interesting that she doesn't even use lead magnets. Right? She just sends people the sequence of blog posts, which I think is really cool, but if you are using a lead magnet, by the time ... If you're doing this sort of strategy where you're getting them to engage, you're showing them the testimonial and how you've helped other people, you're dealing with their objections to what they might have for your product or service.

                                    By the time you're asking them to get on your email list, they might be super stoked to get on your email list and get your freebie. So they're more likely to open that email, they're more likely to actually use and finish your freebie, and then they're way more likely to stay on your email list and engage on your list, right? And eventually, buy, right? Because I've had this issue too. I'm really good at getting a low cost for leads with my Facebook ads. I'm pretty good at that, but I have noticed ... This didn't always used to be the issue, but in the past year, a lot of those leads, they're just not that-

Christine:              High convert.

Kendra:                   High quality. They don't convert. They just want the free thing and then they're gone.

Christine:              Mm-hmm (affirmative). It's like the phenomenon with quizzes and for some time, if we quiz, it was the opt in thing when it's been over and over again shown that while you have the biggest opt in, it converts like a motherfucker when you do it in terms of people finding opts, but at the end of the funnel, you don't have conversion when it comes to paying money. So quizzes, whenever I hear someone saying, "I just did a quiz. I want to do a quiz." It's like, don't do it. You will be so disappointed. You will have to pay for your leads, even if they're not expensive, you have to pay for your email provider because your list will grow and you have to pay for those people and they will not buy.

Kendra:                   Yeah.

Christine:              They will more likely report you as a spammer getting you into trouble with your email provider rather than even spend 27 bucks on a product of yours. So, that's a little bit of takeaway that I've seen and what she taught was totally aligned with that.

Kendra:                   Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree. I had a quiz or something like a self assessment or something like that that I did under the advice of a coach and it got me really cheap leads. It converted really well, but it just didn't ... Those people didn't even open my email.

Christine:              No.

Kendra:                   They didn't open my emails and I ended up deleting a lot of them and I paid big money for them.

Christine:              Yeah.

Kendra:                   Yeah. So, when you think about it, when you're kind of scrolling on your Facebook feed and there's a quiz, you may not have that issue but you're like, "Oh, I'm just interested. I just want to see how I do on the quiz," and they you're done, right?

Christine:              Yeah. Like, "Don't bother with me your product you slime ball," right? And I get people. I really do. So nowadays, it's like, "Ugh. I don't even want to click on it because I know I'll have to give away my email address, which I don't want to do." So that was definitely an interesting talk and I suggest you check out Amanda. She's fantastic.

Kendra:                   Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Christine:              And then, the last point we want to talk about I remembered is Pat Flynn. So check out Pat Flynn with his podcast ... What is it? Passive Income ... Not Passive Income? More Passive Income ...

Kendra:                   Yeah. Smart Passive Income. Yeah.

Christine:              Smart Passive Income. He is a phenomenal speaker. He's launched a product on Kickstarter, which is like a tripod. It's basically an alternative to the Jobe [crosstalk 00:31:53]

Kendra:                   Yeah the gorilla.

Christine:              Tripod, which I'm using mine here. You're using it as well? I'm using mine here, but yeah. I have my issues with it too. But their using [inaudible 00:32:04] and it's been very successful, but he talked about how they did it. What their process was like, and in a nutshell, what they did was they really went ... You can imagine it like a sweet, and they would make sure they had green lights all the way and the way that they did it was by talking to people. So they went to conferences where vloggers hung out, people who used it. They showed them a couple models, they showed them the idea, they asked them what they wanted, what they needed. And so, once they knew what they wanted, they did the prototype and then they would just ... Every step before they basically spend money in a way, they would make sure that the idea was revalidated.

Kendra:                   Yes.

Christine:              And it's a massive success already.

Kendra:                   Yeah. It is, and it's actually ... It looks like a really good product, but yeah. And he talked a lot about having those real conversations. The way they ended up creating it was talking to people, right?

Christine:              Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kendra:                   They were talking to people and hearing that this Gorilla pod just wasn't ... It was annoying. It would blah, blah, blah. It didn't do this. It lacked this. It was good for this but not this sort of thing. And you know, and we were kind of talking before we started recording about sort of the full circle of marketing, right? Because back in the day before this big online beast, people marketed through networking and having conversations with people, and then we got online and we stopped doing that for a while. And it worked for a few years, but these days, it's coming back around where people don't buy from brands. They buy from people. If you want to be successful, you have to know your people. You have to talk to them. You have to have those conversations and develop those relationships. So it is all coming very full circle and I really love that.

Christine:              Exactly, and we're going to add a point here because I'm just reading my notes and this is from the influencer conference that we-

Kendra:                   Oh yeah.

Christine:              Went to, and quote ... It doesn't make sense, but they want to ... Influencer services are important to engage with brand customers because brand can't compete with amateurs. Fact.

Kendra:                   Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Christine:              Because people tell stories that brands can't.

Kendra:                   Yeah.

Christine:              People tell stories because they use it in their every day life, and a brand can't do it. If you have an ad created by a brand, it can do whatever it wants to. It's not the same thing as a real life person telling that story. So, influencers understand the audience. Companies usually only create content about the company-

Kendra:                   Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Christine:              But that is not social media.

Kendra:                   Yes.

Christine:              And I find it very true. Very often ... I can see it in Luxembourg a lot of the time. PR agencies in Luxembourg are so old school. They don't know what brand experience really is and I find they really lack that connect that people are craving nowadays. And that's the job of an influencer; it's creating word of mouth in social media. So ... And they really say social media should be about collaboration and not just marketing.

Kendra:                   Yeah.

Christine:              So, it's the democratization of media influence, which-

Kendra:                   Ooh. I love it.

Christine:              Very, very smart. So those are just a couple of things that we took away from this but I think it ties in, again, that if you are a big brand, in the end, people want to connect. They do want the touch for sure, but in the end, a lot of people ... The first thing that they will do is they're going to look for reviews, they're gonna look for what is happening in life, and ultimately, only real people can tell that story.

Kendra:                   Yeah.

Christine:              So again, it's coming ... Boiling down to people and I think we are more people-centered than we've been in a very long time.

Kendra:                   I think so too, and I think that yeah. Just with the fact that so many people are really busy and so many people are on social media, we've really gotten disconnected. So people want to connect again. They really want to know people, and a big reason why brands are looking for these micro influencers because you know, not only are they way more likely to work harder, because they're trying to build themselves too, right? They're not just some Hollywood influencer who's whatever, but it's [crosstalk 00:36:22]

Christine:              Anyone. [crosstalk 00:36:25]

Kendra:                   Watch that on Netflix.

Christine:              You have to watch it on Netflix, and you know, that's what ... I think that was a huge wake up call in terms of that ... The huge influencers. Not necessarily the best value for your money.

Kendra:                   Yeah. Totally, and I think, with your ... Just having smaller businesses; this is great, because if you're new to your business or you're mid-level, you probably don't have a really big following and that's okay. You don't need to ever have one. Me and Christine have very small social media followings. We have very small lists. We're successful. We can generate large amounts of money when we want to, and it's because we put the time in to get to know our people, to get to know our niche, and know who we're talking to. And when you know your people, you know what to create for them, honestly.

Christine:              Exactly. Speaking to your brand, it's about being an expert in your field. I mean, I work with brands as an influencer and it's because I know my shit, right? Because they know that if they have a journalist who wants to do a piece on their product, they can send me because I can talk about the product but I can also talk about the research behind it. I can talk about the theory behind it. I can talk about the science behind it, and I have tested it. So I can talk about my experience behind it. And that's this full 360 package that you can't get if you just send a media kit right?

Kendra:                   Yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Christine:              And I think nobody should be too shy to do that if your niche is important. Whatever your niche is, trust in it. Get out there. Present it. Every piece of media, you can use it. You just need to be creative and think out of the box.

Kendra:                   Yeah. Absolutely, and even though if you feel like you're small beans, there might be someone ... And you want to work with brands. There may be a brand that's looking for someone just like you.

Christine:              Exactly.

Kendra:                   Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Christine:              Absolutely.

Kendra:                   Yeah.

Christine:              So, whoa baby. That was a lot! That was my glass of wine destroyed.

Kendra:                   That was awesome.

Christine:              It was a great episode this one. I have to say.

Kendra:                   It was a good episode, and we really recommend that conference. We really learned a lot, and we really wanted to kind of give you the conference on steroids.

Christine:              You should join us next year. We should do a 360 [crosstalk 00:38:44]

Kendra:                   Yeah!

Christine:              Podcast kind of tribe getaway.

Kendra:                   Yeah we can just have a meetup. Totally.

Christine:              Together. Yeah.

Kendra:                   I love it. Yeah, it's really fun to connect with people in person, right? Because we're so much behind our screens. I'm in a tiny little town. No one here ... They're like, "So what do you do?" I'm like, "I'm not even gonna bother telling you." You're all gonna look at me like I have three heads. So ...

Christine:              And I took a fifth Uber, you guys. [crosstalk 00:39:10]

Kendra:                   That was so fun.

Christine:              Kind of has a whole new world.

Kendra:                   Oh my god. It blew my mind. Uber Eats, Uber. I guess we use Lyft more than Uber, but I was like, "This is awesome, because my ... I don't love the city, but one of my biggest issues of the city is it's so hard to get around. If you rent a car, I'm stressed out driving because I don't know where I'm going. You take transit, it takes forever. Cabs are so expensive. So it's just ... You know, I don't love the experience, but the day that we were apart, which was crazy that we were apart for today, but I was in three Ubers just cruising around. I went there, there, there. I just would go on Google and what should I do next? Oh! Kombucha brewery? Yes please! And I'd book a Lyft to there.

Christine:              Oh it was a great time. I mean, yeah. It was a good, good event and San Diego is always nice especially in the winter or when it's just not spring yet. It was lovely, so we're definitely going to check in again next year and we're hoping that you will join us. So, let us know if this has been helpful.

Kendra:                   Yeah. It was super good.

Christine:              And give us feedback. Check out our Instagram stories that are going to be super branded and super nice.

Kendra:                   Yeah, and [crosstalk 00:40:24] Listening to your episode on your smartphone, screenshot this episode, share it on Instagram stories, tag 360 Health Biz Podcast, and we will share it in our stories because we love Instagram stories now. So you should probably do that.

Christine:              Yeah. Let's do a quick post for the Instagram story. Well cute. We do very great poses. So anyways, nevermind. We will watch out for our tag on Instagram stories, and yeah. That's it for us today.

Kendra:                   Bye everyone