Personal branding is THE most important thing in 2019 when it comes to marketing yourself and your business. While brand colours and fonts are important, no one connects with a logo, they want to connect with YOU as a human being and as a practitioner or health coach.
If you are worried that people won’t like you…won’t like that post you put up, then you need to work on yourself before you work on your business. Here’s why. We ALL have triggers in our businesses. Our last episode with Lori Kennedy talked all about this and we talk about it again today…your business WILL bring out insecurities that you may or may not realize you have. As Kendra puts it, she sometimes feels like she’s “still that girl in high school who's wondering if anyone's going to show up to my party”. So you need to make sure you have your support team to support you, so you can support others.
But let’s get back to personal brand. When you show up authentically, fearlessly, genuinely, and honestly….ladies and gentlemen, you have your brand. But don’t expect it to happen overnight. And if you’re just starting out, don’t expect it to stay the same. Often time our clients can actually shift our brand and our niche! It's not like you're just going to listen to this episode and know exactly what to do. It's going to be a work in process. You're going to make some mistakes. You're going to have to switch things and change things and revamp things. It's always a work in progress, but in the end just don't try to be who you think you should be, just be you. Just be who you are, exactly how you would in everyday life.
So how can you make your brand you? Kendra and Christine offer some great tips in today’s episode including how to make your Instagram more searchable, which platforms you should be on, ways to discover what your brand is (hint JOURNALLING!) and if you decide you can’t do it yourself and need a brand coach – what to look for in a brand coach.
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Kendra Perry: Yo yo. What's up? 360 Health Biz [inaudible 00:00:04]. I'm trying to channel Brandon [Boomer 00:00:07], because he's always like "What's up holistic [inaudible 00:00:09] [savage tribe 00:00:09]?" What's up every one! Welcome to another episode of the 360 Health Biz Podcast. I am your first host, Kendra Perry, and I am joined by Christine Hansen who, we actually haven't hung out in a while, Christine.
Christine: I know its been like, I texted you, so it's like, "I miss you. It's been too long."
Kendra Perry: Yeah, we haven't recorded an episode in a while so we're super excited to hang out with you guys today. And we're talking about a topic that is so important. It's so, so important. And a lot of health coaches don't get it, right?
Christine: To be blunt, it's like duh, but no ... it's very true. And I think that Kendra and I both didn't get it for a long time.
Kendra Perry: Oh yeah. I only really got it like a year ago, I swear.
Christine: I agree.
Kendra Perry: It's something that's kind of like ... it's not super tangible, you have to kind of really think about it and kind of know what you're doing. But we're going to be talking about branding and personal branding. And the reason why we want to talk about this is because maybe in 2017 this was less important. Maybe in 2018 it was important but not the primary thing, but in 2019, it is like the [inaudible 00:01:16], you have to be successful. You need to have a personal brand. And in order to do that you actually have to know what that is.
Christine: Totally. So we're going to talk about that. We're going to give examples about how you get there, what to watch out for. Also maybe if you hire someone, you know what you should look out for. But first, we want to shout out a very special thank you to [Kimmy Classon 00:01:38], because she wrote us a five star review on iTunes. We love you.
Kendra Perry: We love you.
Christine: So here's what she's saying. "I'm not even a health coach and I love this podcast." Like this seriously, just the [inaudible 00:01:51] is just like makes my heart sick. "I use all the actionable steps in my business and they worked magic and momentum in my mission. I feel empowered that I too can build my biz of my dreams when I listen to these ladies and their amazing guests. So helpful. Thank you."
Kendra Perry: Thank you Kimmy. And I actually know Kimmy, and she's a sustainability coach. So she's done some really cool work with sustainability and climate change so follow her on Instagram.
Christine: I tip my invisible hat to you Kimmy. Like seriously. Amazing business. We're super happy that we can help. And actually, I'm going to drop a little teaser here because Kendra and I, we're working on something where we might be able to help you even a lot more in the future. So stay tuned. Just throwing that out there.
Kendra Perry: Just dropping the seeds, dropping the seed, shameless plug, shameless plug.
Christine: Totally. There you go, that's psychology, baby. Listen to that.
Kendra Perry: Totally.
Christine: Yes, branding. So I think we have to talk a little bit about what branding used to be. So we are the same age pretty much. And I think branding for a long time used to be the logo of MTV or Nike or McDonald's.
Kendra Perry: Like the colors, the font, you know. Visual, the visual.
Christine: Exactly. And the same colors or the same font all the time. And it was pretty much the graphic, I would say.
Kendra Perry: The graphic was really, really important. The logo was really important. And I mean I stressed so much about my logo when I first [inaudible 00:03:32], and now I actually haven't updated my logo like the whole time I've had my business. I need to update it but it doesn't really matter that much, so I just don't care.
Christine: Exactly. Exactly. So we will focus, obviously if you have a product it's still a little bit different. But we will talk about us as people, as service providers, where your brand is something completely different. And please keep all of this in mind when you're also looking to hire something with your branding, because there are people who are trained in this, but there's also people who are used to work with companies, or are just a little bit outdated frankly, who will get it wrong.
Christine: Yes. Just a couple pointers on what to look out for. So as Kendra said, we were at this social media marketing conference, and even before we noticed how branding is completely different. It doesn't have to do with your font, in a way. It does, but the most important piece of the puzzle is actually yourself. And that makes a lot of people squeal inside. It's like, "Oh no I don't want to. But I'm not special. I'm not cool. I'm not busy." Or whatever bullshit is in your head. And I think we're going to give you tangible action steps this episode. But I think the word that needs to go with branding, if you have your business and are selling yourself, and I want you to say that out loud actually, "I am selling myself." Without having the image of Pretty Woman and being a prostitute in your head.
Christine: Because a lot of time when we say this, "I'm selling myself." It's a connotation we just have, and it's bullshit. So I think the word that goes hand in hand with branding is personal development in a way, because you need to be you and you need to be authentic you. So I think the easiest is if Kendra and I are talking a little bit about our steps, so Kendra why don't you start a little bit with you're really, really happy with your brand right now, and it's totally is, so how did you get there?
Kendra Perry: Yeah, well I think ... well first of all was realizing that what people want these days, and we talked about this a little bit over the past few episodes that we recorded, people, they want to connect with you. We're in an era where social media is like a main way that we connect with people and it can feel really impersonal. So I think what people really are looking for is real human connection. They want to feel like they know you and that maybe they can be friends with you. And they want to feel like I could hang out with this chick. Like I really like her. She could be in my friend group and that would be awesome. And we would just hang and it would be cool.
Kendra Perry: And so I think for me the first thing was realizing that it's less about a brand so much as it is about a personal brand. You mentioned that with personal development, if you were a coach, and if you're listening to this podcast, you're probably a coach of some kind, whether it's a health coach or a fitness pro, whatever is is you're doing. You are your brand. So for me it was realizing that my brand is me, and I needed to stop faking what I thought people wanted to see me as, and be quote, unquote, "professional", and just be myself. And so that meant sharing more about me. So if you guys follow me you probably know that I'm really into the mountains and the outdoors, and I love adrenaline sports, right? So-
Christine: And crashing your bike, it's like [crosstalk 00:06:56]
Kendra Perry: Totally. Crashing my bike and wrecking my body. That's my thing, right? And so it was about figuring out how to infuse the things that are really important to me, my core values, which is being in nature, being in the mountains and pushing myself with sports, into my brand message and into what I'm actually doing with people. So it was taking a step back from just recording videos, with make up on, and looking all professional, and recording videos in my bike jersey. Or as I'm going for a walk or on the mountain bike trail, or whatever it is, and actually bringing that into what I do. So I think for me, it was just realizing that your brand is who you are.
Christine: I agree.
Kendra Perry: As a core human being. And what you stand for and your values. And it's not easy. It's not like you're just like, "This is me. This is what I stand for and I'm going to start combining my brand and who I am." It's a process, it takes time, and it takes a lot of deep personal work. Which I think comes back around to the personal development thing you were talking about Christine, right?
Christine: Yeah, and I think if both of us look at our history. I'm on website number four most likely. I love my website now but it's because I've changed it because I've grown. And it's fine. It took me three years to figure out who I am and what I want to do. I can confidently now say that I'm totally me and I love it, but it's not always been that great. So if you are a newbie coach, here's a little advice with love. Don't spend all your budget on a branding person yet. I would actually advertise you to keep it a little bit more generic in terms of clean and simple, rather than going all in, thinking you know who you are and thinking you know what your clients want and what resonates with them. Because I guarantee you, you will change again. And I'd rather use that budget on a coach or an energy worker, or whatever you are into, to help you figure out what makes you comfortable saying that sentence, "I am selling myself." Because if that doesn't feel comfortable to you, you have work to do. Until you get there, I'd budget more into that journey than necessarily the branding.
Kendra Perry: Yeah I completely agree, because the thing is you probably are going to change your niche. The niche that you start with, I would say more than likely you're going to change it at some point, right?
Christine: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kendra Perry: You've changed your niche once or twice. I've changed it like four times. And I think it's just because you're going to think, "Oh I really want to talk about this topic." You're going to get out there, and maybe you're going to get sick of talking about it, or maybe your interests are going to take you elsewhere. Or maybe the people who are following you are going to take you elsewhere, and that's okay. So I do think go light, pick a few colors and fonts, that's cool, whatever. And then just actually sit down and journal. Actually sit down and think about who you really are.
Kendra Perry: When you sit down ... and I'd like to give the person who I heard this from credit, but I can't remember where I heard this, but it's really good. It's like your brand is what people say about you when you're not around.
Christine: Oh yeah.
Kendra Perry: Isn't that good?
Christine: That's good. It's very good.
Kendra Perry: Because how would you describe me? Oh she's like crazy and off the cuff, and outgoing, and outdoorsy. It's my personality, right? It's how people would describe me. So think about what people would say. And if you don't know maybe you should ask your friends and family.
Christine: Mm-hmm (affirmative). And I would also be ... whatever triggers you, whatever makes you feel uncomfortable, that's the point you need to investigate. You need to figure out why. Is it actually you or is it someone else's voice in your head. Until you understand who you are and what is actually your authentic issue, you will not be confident enough, and authentic enough. Because authenticity cannot be faked. Having said that, I have kind of a double split persona in a way. So I like different things. I like to be completely glam. I am now, also really like to be sexy, but I also really like to hang out with sneakers and a et-shirt. And I sometimes make it a point to go to these networking points where you have suit guys and ladies in their pant suits and stuff, and I just show up in trousers and sneakers because I'm like screw all of you, I can do whatever I want.
Christine: So I have this double persona, but the way that I did it was, okay, this type of persona is great for my website in terms of the first impression, also because I charge a certain price point. But when I'm on video or when I do my Instagram stories, I'm very, very basic and down to Earth. And if you go to my Instagram you'll also see that my photo shoots are like that. Some are a little bit more posh and some are just with sneakers and a et-shirt and jeans. So they're all part of me, but I'm having to say it's always polished most of the time, but if you do charge a certain price point, you also, you don't have to, but it can help to appear in a certain way. Again, it's authentic to you though. I love my Louboutins. I Have to say I never wear them if I have to wear them for more than 10 minutes walking, but I look pretty damn hot when I do wear them. So it's like this double thing. But you need to own every piece of you. And I think, depending on what your business is, you push some of it forward for your website, but you need to be comfortable with it.
Christine: If you never wear shoes like that because you're uncomfortable or because you don't like the people who wear those shoes or whatever is coming with it, don't do it. Really, really don't do it. People smell it out. And I think in the end you need to remember that people will get to know you. They will buy your service and they will get to know you. And if it doesn't coincide, they will be disappointed. And damn, that's also how we have our dream clients because they connect with the authentic us. It's a take it or leave it thing. If you don't like the way we are, you know what you get, basically. We don't sell anything that's not authentic. And I think that's how you get the raving testimonials afterwards because people actually know you. And you didn't promise anything that didn't happen. And you didn't sell yourself as someone who you're not. So I think that's super, super important to understand.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, I think it's a really good point. I was speaking with a coach the other day and she was getting frustrated with social media, and trying to show up as who she thought she should be, right? Which was what we were talking about in the beginning. And she's someone who has a big ranch, and she has horses. And I mean all her days are spent outside with the horses. And I was like, you need to do your videos in the field with your horses. And she's like, actually I did a video in her horse stall where she was picking up horse poop and talking about how the poop ... it's annoying to pick up, but it means her horses are healthy and stuff like that. And kind of weaving it into health and whatever. And she was like, "I felt really fired up in that video." I'm like, "Yeah. Because you're in your element." Right?
Kendra Perry: Just like Christine said, if you're not a fancy person, then don't do a photo shoot wearing all this makeup and a fancy dress.
Christine: No. Oh it looks horrible.
Kendra Perry: My photo shoots are action sports stuff. Me in casual wear. Sometimes I just have selfies with no make up on because half the time I'm in the forest biking and my make up is off my face. It's streaming down the side of my face because I just did a podcast and now I'm going biking and I'm sweating like a pig, right?
Kendra Perry: So I think it's about figuring out who you are, but showing that on your social media and on your website. People should really feel like, like Christine says, that it lines up. When they meet you in person you should be the same person. And people are going to feel like they know you and when they actually meet you they want to be like, "Oh wow. She's just like she is online."
Christine: Exactly. And it's so funny because I see people on Zoom, when I have my first sessions with them. And they're like, "Oh you actually look like you do in your photos. You look the same way." And I'm like, yes. Because they like, "Well, I've people when I saw them on their website and then I saw them on video and it's completely crazy."
Kendra Perry: Yeah, totally.
Christine: Hang on, just one second. It's raining and one of my windows closed automatically and the other one hasn't. So now I'm wondering if they all close automatically. Okay, it's fine, sorry.
Kendra Perry: Random, side note there.
Christine: Sorry, sorry. I just wouldn't want it to [inaudible 00:15:34] anything, but fine. Yes. So, no, I think that's really important. And that's also why I really want to say, if you want to work with a branding coach, which I think, at some point, you should do. Someone who writes the copy and someone who understands fonts, who just knows all of them, and who can tell you immediately this corresponds your persona. Here's a really important thing to keep in mind. First of all they need to understand what you do. Because yesterday I talked to someone, and she's doing, she's a licensed psychiatrist, but she's also working with meditation and energy work. When she was working with a branding coach, they had no idea what she was actually doing. And she was like, "Okay how is she supposed to ..." Sorry cat ...
Kendra Perry: Aww cute.
Christine: "How is she supposed to write or to represent me if she doesn't even know what I do?" So I think that's a big, red flag right there.
Christine: The other thing is that if, as soon as the coach or consultant, tries to fit you into a box, run for the hills. It's just not what they should do. They should listen and then they should work and design something upon it. They should not say, okay, I think you should be this and this and this, because this and this and this sells. Bullshit. I call bullshit.
Kendra Perry: I worked with a coach who kind of did something like that. And really pushed me into talking about weight loss. And I'm sorry but I hate weight loss. It's not ... I mean I don't feel like I'm someone who's like ... I'm fit but I don't have this ripped body, and I just hate the before and after photos of [crosstalk 00:17:17]
Kendra Perry: I feel like you attract, not always, but depending on how you position yourself, but you often attract people who want to just lose weight, and they don't care about their health. And that's something I'm interested in. But she really kind of pushed me into that space, and then when I launched what I had to launch, it totally flopped. And I think it was because I was super out of alignment with what I actually was doing. And I was like, I don't even want to do this. What am I doing? So you do have to be wary of that. And I think when you think about ... you obviously need to know ... we talk so much about knowing who your ideal client is and figuring out who you're talking to. That's a big part of brand building. You need to be specific, you need to know who you're trying to attract.
Kendra Perry: But you also want to know how do you want people to feel when they come into contact with your business. Like with Christine, if I'm an entrepreneur, a CEO, I might get that luxury, high end feel, and maybe that's what you want people to feel. And when people come to my business, they might feel inspired to go climb a mountain or they feel like, get this nature-y feel. You want them to have a feeling about your business, and that's ...
Kendra Perry: That's great.
Christine: No, I totally agree. I agree. And it's also, yes, for me I think if you're authentic, you will automatically attract the right clients. Like some will just Google, they find your website, and they schedule a call with you and they have no clue what you actually do. But I find the hardcore fans, usually they take some time, they stalk you for a while, and then they get in touch. And you have this perfect client-coach, expert, whatever dynamic. And they are ready then to spend money with you because they trust you, because you never lie, and because you're just authentic. And if you screw up, you screw up, and it's fine. And they know that it's human and that's it.
Christine: And I personally, I also, it's really funny because I worked with someone, and I admire her still, she's amazing. But in the beginning, three years ago, her branding was very subtle, and she was no make up or just tiny bits, and it was just, I loved it. Because at the time, I don't know if you remember, everyone had this gold written font and it was just about boss babe and personal glam, six figure, seven figures. There was gold everywhere and everyone was wearing these business dresses and big hair on the beach, that kind of thing. And she was just ... she had a black dress, she was very sober, and it was all about what she was saying. Super intelligent thing. I loved it because she was different because that's the way she was.
Christine: Now she has one of these photographers that I know shooting a lot of people who are pretty in in the industry right now, and they all look the same. And it's all over the top glitz and glam. And it's like everyone is one a unicorn boat, float thing. And I'm just like, I cannot have it with the graffiti in the background. Everyone looks the same now and it's not high end. It's just like an overblown ego. It's not the same. Development, becoming more confident, does not mean that your ego is taking over. I think that's also important to keep in mind.
Kendra Perry: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's really important to keep in mind. You really want to be true to yourself. It's not the easiest thing to do but it's easier in the long run because in the long run you're just yourself. You're not trying to develop this persona of someone who you aren't. I'm sure we've all met people in our life who we felt were fake. And we felt like they were hiding something or they weren't being their true selves, and something was off. And we didn't want to hang out with those people. So you don't want to be that person to your audience, right?
Kendra Perry: And I have a little list here because I think journaling can be really helpful. I think you can sit down and really consider this, but I have some questions you can ask yourself when you're journaling. And the first one is what are you unique qualities and strengths? We all have them, we all have unique parts about our personalities. We all have unique strengths. And if that's a hard question for you to answer, like I said, talk to your friends and family. Sit down with your bestie. They might help you see a side of you that maybe is less obvious to yourself.
Kendra Perry: What are five words that your friends would use to describe you? Again, you can talk to your friends, right? What are your core values? What do you stand for in your business? How do people benefit from working with you? And how do you want people to feel after they come into contact with your business?
Kendra Perry: Really, really think about this. Do some journaling. And you might have some big aha moments. Because the truth is we all are unique, individual people. And these days people don't want the cookie cutter approach. They don't want some monotone practitioner in front of a camera being super professional, with no emotion and no personality. People are not going to watch that video.
Kendra Perry: If you're someone who likes to crack inappropriate jokes, crack inappropriate jokes. If you like to say fuck, say fuck. I say it all the time and it's honestly, it can be very polarizing. I mean people hate me for it. I get people ... it's the most common thing that people write to me and tell me to watch my mouth and I have a dirty mouth. But I don't care. If they hung out with me in person they would probably be like, "This girl swears to much and I don't want to hang out with her." Whatever, right? It's okay. There's someone else out there for them. It's not me and it doesn't need to be.
Christine: Perfect. I totally agree.
Kendra Perry: We like to say fuck.
Christine: A lot. And it's a great thing. I don't know why people are so offended. It's super great. Awesome.
Christine: But there was something else I wanted to say and it slipped my mind so let's continue because I-
Kendra Perry: Okay. Well I wanted to talk a little bit about Instagram because we really love Instagram right now. And honestly, in terms of a social media platform I do think it's probably one of the best ones to build a personal brand. It's very visual. There's a lot of ways you can share content. You can post in your feed, you can do Instagram stories, you can do IGTV, you can do Instagram live. Literally, there's four different ways to interact on Instagram, and they're all different ways to show your personalities. But I have some crazy pet peeves when it comes to Instagram. And I wanted to just talk about this quickly.
Kendra Perry: So you can do an experiment. Click on the people who you're following or people who are following you. And scroll down and look at the accounts that you're most likely to want to click into and learn more about. I almost guarantee it's not someone who's using a logo as their image, their profile picture. When I see a logo, I don't want to click into that at all. There's nothing. There's no human connection. I have no connection to a graphic or a logo. But when I see a cool picture of someone, I'm like, "Ooo, what does that chick do? Oh what does that dude do?" So I think-
Christine: Exactly. I mean the exception to the rule is obviously if you have a product or if you are like Mont Blanc of something like that, sure, use your logo. But let's talk about us people. Don't use your logo. Who cares?
Kendra Perry: Nobody cares about your logo and there's no connection there. Even if our Instagram handle or your business name is not your name, you are still your brand. So you have to have a photo there.
Kendra Perry: And then next of all your name, if your handle is like "climbtothetopwellness", I don't know, that's a weird business.
Christine: Or "sleeplikeabus".
Kendra Perry: Yeah, or "sleeplikeabus". You are still your brand so your name has to be somewhere in your bio. Because just think of it this way, imagine you have a logo and your names not in your bio. And then you DM somebody, like an ideal client to try to connect. They're going to be like ...
Christine: Who's that?
Kendra Perry: They're not going to follow you. You're not even a human.
Kendra Perry: And then the other thing is maybe I scroll down your feed and you don't even show up anywhere on your feed. There's no photos of you.
Christine: I hate that. I cannot stand it. These meme things, where people only put their memes of things. No. I would never hire you. I don't know who you are. I don't see you. I only see memes. I only see quotes, but who are you? It just tells me that your self-confidence is down the toilet, why would I want to learn from you? Sorry.
Kendra Perry: Yeah. Like you, honestly, I think like every second photo ...
Christine: It is. It's my strategy.
Kendra Perry: [crosstalk 00:25:42] I see you. And I mean it actually makes your Instagram look really visual, when you just do like photo of you, and then maybe you can do your quote or your meme, something with like white space.
Christine: Exactly. Or whatever.
Kendra Perry: You could literally show up everyday on your feed. And I know it feels very narcissistic, but it's actually what people want from you. Those photos are going to do better, so from an Instagram perspective, you need to make it clear who you are. People need to go to your thing and see your photo and see your name. And then obviously see what they do, but I feel like I'm like a broken record. I've talked about this so much and I just see it so much. Like people who [crosstalk 00:26:18] health coaching, advice and marketing. And I'm just like, oh my god, I go on your profile [crosstalk 00:26:26] there, your photo's not there. You just have a list of all the schools you went to and your certifications.
Christine: Nobody cares.
Kendra Perry: Nobody cares.
Christine: Agreed. And you're much more searchable. So when people ask me how do I find you on Instagram, I tell them you can either look for "Christine Hansen" because my name is "Christine Hansen Sleep Expert", or you can look for "sleeplikeabus" because that's my handle. So you will find me whatever you type, which is amazing. So people do it. Use your name. I would suggest use your name and your business title. And just decide is your name going to be your business name or is your handle going to be whatever. But that way you're searchable twice, which is super cool.
Christine: The other thing is if you do want your credentials, just line a couple and then say dot, dot, dot. Like for example in my bio, I say that I've been featured in National Geographic books, et cetera. So even I have this little space available, I just do dot, dot, dot, but it's really, really helpful. Then a greet, use your personal picture and a quote or a blog or something like that.
Christine: And here's another tip, what I do ... because I use a personal picture every second day during the week. And Kendra and I did this for our pictures, whenever we go traveling, we go to Airbnb Experiences and book a photo shoot. And they're usually around 80 bucks, and you get 20 to 25 pictures is the norm, I think. And you get great pictures, like really great photographers out there. And they're perfect for Instagram and drop posts and so forth. So it's not expensive. It doesn't break the bank. And you can constantly feed fresh photos into your feed. It's Instagram, people are there because it's a visual platform, get over yourself.
Kendra Perry: Take good photos, right? Yeah, we started doing that ... I don't know, not that long ago. But our branch shoot that we did for the podcast, we just did it in San Diego on the beach with this photographer who seemed really introverted and not confident. And I was like, "Oh I don't know how this is going to go." But they were great photos. Really, really. And tons of them, right?
Kendra Perry: And it cost us like a hundred bucks or something.
Christine: Not even. Not even. And it doesn't even need to be ... like I like to have a photographer do photos because I don't know who else I would ask all the time, but if you go to see celebrities, like Reese Witherspoon, she does have some of her old photos, that were new ones, but she had a lot of photos that friends took with their iPhones, of her. Obviously she knows how to pose but it just goes to show you don't always need the professional angle. If you have someone, I don't know, a boyfriend or just a friend you hang out with, or a partner or whatever, or just a good friend, and where ever you are, you ask them can you take a picture of me, don't feel uncomfortable about it. Just say it's for my job. You can even do it with your iPhone or whatever smart phone you have. The camera's are so good nowadays.
Kendra Perry: They're so good.
Christine: The portrait mode, hello.
Kendra Perry: Hello portrait mode.
Christine: How much you can do, it's crazy.
Kendra Perry: It's such a good point because if you go on my feed, there's some photos on there that are processional, but there's a lot of photos that are literally just taken with my Google phone or my boyfriend's Google phone, and it's a really good, high quality camera. Now I also have a little tripod for my phone, so when I go places, I might just put on the timer and get a quick photo of me doing something. Actually, I posted an Instagram post on the editing eps that I use, but maybe that would be a good episode for an upcoming Biz Bomb episode, because I have like two apps that I pull things into that will take a photo that's pretty average, and I have my pre-set, and then I clean up my complexion and I clean up the colors, and suddenly it's a professional photo. It doesn't need to be a big deal. And in the end even selfies are better than not being on your feed.
Christine: Absolutely. And I would advocate that you have some kind of structure on your feed, and anything that you want to throw out there is your stories. That's how I handle it. So if I take a crazy selfie or just some snap shots from when I'm out and about, I still evaluate what I put into my stories, it's always personal. Usually it's my personal life and just showing ... because again it's part of my brand. When I travel first class it's part of my brand. It's who I am, it's what I sell. But also when I'm in the bathtub with my new kittens, that's also kind of who I am.
Christine: And you use it even more for marketing. I haven't done it quite as much yet. So there's so much wiggle room, as long as you stay true to yourself. So use gifs that you would usually use, use emojis that you would usually use. The fonts, there are so many different ones that you can use. They all have pros and cons I find, but use colors that you would use, that you find pretty. Just use things that you find attractive and I find that you are already on brand.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, and it's a good point with Instagram Stories because when it comes to personal branding, and I think we're both on board with this Christine, is that we really think you need to use video to build a brand, right?
Christine: My god yes.
Kendra Perry: It's really hard to push out your personality on a blog post, on social media posts.
Christine: Unless you're a super good writer.
Kendra Perry: Unless you're the most amazing writer in the world.
Christine: But even then people get sick of that.
Kendra Perry: They want to see you, right?
Christine: Exactly. And they combine it. I'm a huge [Laura Bell Grey 00:31:56] fan. I worked with her a couple of times. And her [inaudible 00:32:00] are amazing. They're full of her personality, and she just does it because she's amazingly talented. But even so, she still uses photos too. But she manages to ... she's so talented it's crazy. Not a lot of people are. Just don't consider yourself to be as talented I would say.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, and there's so many ways to share video content these days. And I think people get really uncomfortable and nervous about live video, but if you're not comfortable on life video, you can still share pre-recorded video. Instagram Stories is all pre-recorded video. IGTV, which is the biggest bang for your buck for engagement on Instagram right now, like seriously, it is the biggest bang for your buck. I'm getting like six times more engagement on my IGTV videos than I am on feed posts right now, and even Instagram Stories. Instagram really wants to push it. And it's a pre-recorded video, maximum 10 minutes. What a great amount of time to get super to the point but actually teach and educate people.
Christine: Exactly. And I expect that your Instagram feed is going to be like your mini-website and your IGTV is what Instagram is pushing for, like I really think that's video and so forth.
Christine: And a little trick that I have because I never expect to actually watch or listen to whenever I do a video or a podcast, so whenever they do I'm super surprised and that's not a lie. Because I just assume, and Kendra and I are just recording this, but I actually don't ... well I do believe it, I know it's true, but I never have, in the back of my head, that you guys will actually watch all of [inaudible 00:33:41]. So whenever I speak with you I'm just like, "Oh god this is so embarrassing, you actually listen?" It's really weird, so I kind of bubble myself into that world and that's how it works for me. But I think that's something you could do. Just assume nobody's ever going to watch it.
Kendra Perry: I mean in the end, especially when you're new, probably not a lot of people are going to be watching it anyways. And I think it's really important, with video, like it's not something that we both came into the world being good at. If you go back, I'm sure, and look at Christine's early videos or my early Facebook lives, it's like not the same person because I was not comfortable. The first time I went live on video was Periscope when that used to be a thing.
Christine: Oh my god, it was so embarrassing.
Kendra Perry: I know, I hated it because I go live on this video. I'm like, been nervous all day. I've created this whole script. I'm so, so, so nervous. And then all I'm getting is comments being like, "Nice pitch, show your boobs."
Christine: Show your boobs. Yes.
Kendra Perry: And I'm like what is happening, what is happening? I'm trying to talk about adrenal fatigue, what's happening? I don't know why all the perverts were on Periscope, but that's where they hung out.
Christine: Yeah, agreed.
Kendra Perry: Luckily you don't have to deal with that on Facebook live. But I think it's something that you will never be good at unless you do it consistently. You've got to do it all the time. And eventually ... like I never would have thought that I could just hop onto live video with no preparation and just talk about a subject at length. I never would have thought I would do that, but now I can, because I've probably put out 300 live videos at this point in my career, right?
Christine: Yes. Yes. And also again, if I look at my first videos, I feel comfortable with it, it's because I always taught and always done things like that, but I wasn't myself in the beginning. I still have straightened hair and all kinds of bullshit. But now you just see me with bed hair.
Kendra Perry: I feel like you're in your bed when you record at the time.
Christine: I am actually. I actually am. And you'll see my headboard or I'm in my hotel room and I just rolled out of bed. And it's not even having make up on. And it doesn't matter. And funny enough, I sometimes feel that the videos I shoot off location, so without studio lights and here in my office, but I do spontaneously at an airport or in my hotel room, so very often those will get the most resonance. So mix it up. Keep it professional but also don't be afraid to just impromptu shoot a video. Because you can, you have your phone with you. There's nothing else you need.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, absolutely. And something also that's kind of cool too, is I think YouTube just introduced vertical video. So if you're making an IGTV video, with is just going to be vertical, like you holding your phone, you can actually just upload it to YouTube as well, straight from a YouTube app on your phone. So that's something they just rolled out. So repurposed content, right, is a really good way to ...
Kendra Perry: Hope I won't go crazy.
Christine: Exactly. So watch out or listen to our episode with Jamie Palmer, I think it's the second or third episode on our podcast ever. It's still one of my favorites. And [inaudible 00:36:47] and I work with Jamie actually.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, we do. We love Jamie.
Christine: We love her. But its changed both of our businesses tremendously. So go and have a look at that. When you know who you are, when your branding is ready, then go and have a look at that.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, and especially when you're new. I know it's easy to compare yourself to other people, like if you go check out, like my business you'll see that I'm on all the social media platforms, but I also have a team. I have a team of people who does that. When you're new and starting out, you can't make specific content for every platform. You need to choose one platform that you know that's where your ideal client is hanging out, and maybe it's a platform that you actually enjoy using, and then just try to make one piece of content each week, and then you repurpose, right? And you put it out on other platforms. But this is a little bit off topic, but it's also [crosstalk 00:37:32].
Christine: The only other thing also that I want to say, and you just said it, that don't try to be like other people, is that sometimes people say look at what other people do in your industry. And I would actually highly encourage you against that. Because you are different. And for example, I don't have a problem training people at what I do and become a member of my team, because I know that even if five of us do exactly the same thing, and they are going to, whoever the potential client is, is going to resonate with someone different. And I see it because one of mentees just used my tagline. And I told her she could use part of it, not all of it. But it doesn't actually suit here. Because when you talk to her, she isn't like that. So whenever I work with my mentees, although we use the same structure and we have the same business, they all have a different person they are drawn to and that they naturally connect with.
Christine: And I ask them that, you know? "Who are the people who usually open up to you? Who are the people that just when you are in a room with people, who you just suddenly sit somewhere, offside, having a beer with and just a great conversation. Who are they?" Those are the people who are you, who you naturally resonate with. So don't use copy from someone else's website. Even if you just change it a little bit. It's not you. Whenever you're you, it's your brand, it's your voice, it's your aesthetic. The same as I find some very sleek fonts very nice, whereas others are more for the brushstroke kind of thing. You need to go with what belongs to you, what you would wear if you could put it on. And if you had a fashion show to go to to represent you, what would you feel most comfortable in, that's you.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, I agree.
Christine: But don't copy it, it's not going to work.
Kendra Perry: Yeah, and I think people, you want to write your copy and write your social media posts exactly like you would talk. How would you actually talk? If you were just going to write that social media post, no one's going to see it as a journal entry, like what would it actually look like. And I think the biggest compliment you can get is when someone's like, "I already feel like I know you." I get that with my strategy sessions with the coaches, and they're like, "I feel like I already know you." They don't realize it but that's the best compliment that anyone can give me because that means that what I'm doing is working, right?
Christine: Exactly. Exactly. And don't hide yourself. Don't pretend to be anything that you're not. And I noticed it a lot recently, the latest podcast interviews that I've done, and I've done quite a few in the last two to three months. People love them. And it's not me just saying that. I literally had three people get back to me yesterday about three different podcast interviews, and saying, "This was such a great episode." And it's episodes where I talk about how I changed, how, yes, my marriage ended. But also how I made money, the crosses I had to go through, the ugly sides, but also everything I believe in, which might be sometimes uncomfortable. And just being, not vulnerability alert, blah, blah, blah, but just like I'm not better than you just because sometimes things were hard, this is just what it's like. I'm being very honest.
Christine: And I think that's the other thing, when you're journaling or whenever something triggers you, always ask yourself am I honest right here? Honesty is the most important word that you can have in your life. I honestly ... I honestly believe that. I really think so.
Kendra Perry: Yeah. I mean I love that. Honesty. It's so true. Like we said, it doesn't happen overnight. It's not like you're just going to listen to this episode and know exactly what to do. It's going to be a work in process. You're going to make some mistakes. You're going to have to switch things and change things and revamp things. It's always a work in progress, but in the end just don't try to be who you think you should be, just be you. Just be who you are, exactly how you would in everyday life.
Christine: Agreed. And I just want to do a little bonus thing here. I just really quickly want to share the people and the tools that helped me the most. And you can do too, Kendra.
Kendra Perry: Sure.
Christine: But one thing that I'm sharing all the time, listen to my podcast interviews, is Tapping Into Wealth, by Margaret Lynch. If you want to be comfortable with money and selling yourself, then I've worked with a couple of different coaches. But one that I'm still working with regularly is [Halinda 00:42:04] Moors, so Moors M-O-O-R-S. She's my energy, quantum field kind of person. I still don't know how it works exactly, but it works. I also work with Heather Jones, she's an EFT practitioner that really helped. I worked with Amber Dugger, my financial coach.
Kendra Perry: We had her on the podcast. She's on like a [inaudible 00:42:22] episode.
Christine: She's amazing.
Kendra Perry: Check it out.
Christine: Check it out. [Katimonstas 00:42:26] Peters is also ... she's a witch, really. She's amazing. Check it out. She's fantastic, helped me a lot. So I work with [Meryl Creeksman 00:42:36]. She's changed her business so she doesn't offer the same package that I used to do. And then those were I think, personal development wise, huge. And also Doctor Drema Dial. She's a psychologist and she's helped me a lot too. And [Robin Collette 00:42:53]. So you can see I work and get help from a lot of different people. But you meet people when you're supposed to meet them. And they've helped me tremendously over the last time. And you cannot do it alone. I think that's the message. And I would have saved so much money if I had worked, well more, on my own personal development earlier.
Kendra Perry: I agree.
Christine: And it never stops.
Kendra Perry: It never stops. Yeah like I always talk about having three counselors. For talk therapy, I see someone for trauma release, and then me and my partner see a couples counselor even though our relationship is great, because we work on prevention, right? And just continually learn how to better communicate with each other. But the counseling has been a big thing for me because you do get triggered in your business. It will bring out all your biggest insecurities. Every time I launch something, I'm still that girl in high school who's wondering if anyone's going to show up to my party, right?
Christine: I know because you tell me and it's adorable. And I'm like, "Kendra, chill." Is anyone going to show up to my party?
Kendra Perry: I know. It's funny but I get triggered from high school because I was bullied, I had really toxic female friends in my life. I've actually seen some of that, those feelings in high school come up recently in my business, especially in relation to internet trolls. That's something I've been dealing within my business recently. So I called up my counselor and I was like, "I'm ready to deal with the high school shit. Let's go four sessions and let's go for it." I don't want some stranger on the internet who hates their life, who just wants to spew negativity at me, affect me the way that it affects me. It really affects me and it has nothing to do with me. So I can tell that it's triggering high school Kendra.
Christine: Exactly. And then you cry, it's hard, it sucks, you're sick for two days, and then you get through it.
Kendra Perry: That's right. And you learn to recognize it. Those feelings are still going to come up, you're still going to feel that triggering sensation, but when you do the personal work and you actually grow and start to heal, you're able to step back from it and be like, "Okay, that's triggering me. Why is that triggering me? Okay cool. These are the tools that I have so that I don't go into fight or flight."
Christine: Exactly. And that's when you show up authentically, fearlessly, genuinely, honestly, and that, ladies and gentlemen, is your brand.
Christine: All right. Juicy, juicy stuff girl. Now I have like goosebumps all over.
Kendra Perry: I know, I'm sweating, but it's actually [crosstalk 00:45:31]
Christine: I know. [crosstalk 00:45:35] I hope they can't see the little sweat things on my noose.
Kendra Perry: I'm glad everyone can't see my boob sweat.
Christine: My god. No I like, I have the weirdest sweat spot, it's under my lip and on my nose. Like I swear all the glands are on my nose.
Kendra Perry: I get the sweat mustache.
Kendra Perry: All right guys, thank you so much for putting up with us as always. We're always completely blown away when you want to hang out with us. It's like so weird. But what I am going to say? Oh yeah, if you like this episode and you are an Instagram user, screenshot this episode on Instagram, share it to your stories, and tell us your biggest take home. And we will share your stories, to our story, because we love Instagram, and we love Instagram Stories. And if you don't use Instagram, just go give us a five star review on iTunes. No big deal, no big deal. [inaudible 00:46:27]
Christine: It would make us very, very happy.
Kendra Perry: Yeah it will. And we'll read it on air.
Christine: Yes, yes. Absolutely. All right. Have a great time every one and we'll talk to you in two weeks.
About This Episode:Social Media Marketing World gathered the top experts in business and marketing from around the world to discuss what is working right now in social media.
The girls attended several workshops and talks and some common themes became apparent. Many of the experts said similar things about what you need to do if you want to be successful running your business in 2019.
The most common theme is that bigger is NOT better. In fact, bigger is often worse. This is great news for coaches who have just started their health practice and for those who have smaller followings. What matters the most is true human connection and relationships. In today’s marketing world, you can’t hide behind the face of brand or a logo. That doesn’t work. You need to actually talk to your people, ask them what they want and ask them how you can serve them. And most importantly, remember that each and everyone of your followers is a person; a real, live human being and not just a number.
You fav health biz ladies break down their most valuable lessons learned from top marketing experts including; Sue Zimmerman, Pat Flynn, Amanda Bond, Park Howell and Michael Stelzner.
We give you the best tips in Facebook ads, Instagram stories, Storytelling and the top trends in social media in 2019.
Kendra: Hello, hello everyone! Welcome to the 360 Health Biz Podcast. I am your host, Kendra Perry, and I'm joined today with my lovely and beautiful and sexy and unbelievable cohost Christine Hansen. She's got her glass of wine because it's night time for her and she's definitely going to be going ...
Christine: Saturday night it's bad ass rock star.
Kendra: It's Saturday afternoon for me. We're working on the weekend, working hard. But we are recording this episode kind of on the fly because we have some really important information to bring to you guys and we wanted to make sure that we got it to you as soon as possible. Because if you guys follow us on Instagram @360healthbizpodcast which you definitely should if you're not and you are following our stories, you would have seen that we met in person for the very first time. That was very exciting. We were at the Social Media Marketing World Conference and it was awesome. We definitely highly recommend it. It was time well spent and we learned quite a bit at the conference, and we really want to share some of the very powerful things that we learned because we believe it will help you growing your business.
Christine: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. We were really lucky. There were tons of workshops, and every workshop that we took taught us something new and we definitely would drill it down to the three most important lessons that we're going to pack together here for you. So you're getting the conference on steroids basically.
Christine: Alright so [crosstalk 00:01:32]
Kendra: Give me that conference on steroids! Don't worry. It's not appropriate.
Christine: No, but I mean, since when are we appropriate? Oh guys. You should've been with us. Seriously, the conversations we had it was just ... It was hilarious.
Kendra: It was ridiculous.
Christine: Oh it was wonderful. Let's get started. The first thing we wanted to talk to you about was actually from the keynote talk, which was on the second day. Kendra and I, we had all-access passes so we actually started a day early in comparison to just the general public, which makes me feel very posh, and the keynote, the officially keynote, was on the second day by Michael Stelzner in the morning. And I think the main ... What you can drill everything down to that we heard at the conference was that it's not bigger and better anymore but better is bigger. And I love to hear that message because I've tried a long time to get numbers. Grow your email list, grow your Facebook page, grow numbers, numbers, numbers, numbers, and it really, really has come back to that's not the point.
And we saw that in influence on marketing, for example, coming to think of it. Kendra and I, we attended a conference that was basically meant for people who are looking for influencers.
Kendra: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Christine: So we were basically listening in what we should provide, as people who are looking for influencers, and a very big takeaway was that micro and nano influencer. So nano influencer would be up to ... No. What was it? Nano first [crosstalk 00:03:08]
Kendra: I think nano is [crosstalk 00:03:09] below 10, 000.
Christine: I think-
Kendra: And then ...
Christine: Micro was up to 10, 000.
Kendra: Yeah. It was something like that, but for all you people who have less than 10, 000 followers [crosstalk 00:03:18]
Kendra: On Instagram, right?
Christine: Those are actually the hot influencers that companies are looking for, because it's niched, it's not diluted, you still have authentic fans there while there's only huge, huge, Instagram accounts where engagement is not necessarily there or when not genuine interest is there. So, I found that really interesting, and the whole conversation was along that line. So one case study that we were taught was that he did an experiment about one of their videos. They have a little show where they publish weekly videos, and he published it on Facebook and he published it on YouTube and he got over 20, 000 views on Facebook but it wasn't promoted because Facebook said it didn't perform too well. And he was wondering why, so he investigated and tracked all the different steps and it turned out that out of the 20, 000 people, and it was a little bit more I think, 19. Only 19 finished the video.
Christine: But YouTube, he had a lot less people who started watching ... I think it was just 2, 000-
Kendra: But he had about 60% finish.
Christine: Exactly! So [crosstalk 00:04:26]
Christine: 68% versus 19 [inaudible 00:04:28] people, right? So, the conversion is very different. His takeaway was you need to know which platform to use for what and again, it's not about quantity.
Christine: So, I loved this because Kendra and I, this is much more an integrity for what we do.
Kendra: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Christine: We both don't have massive ... 20, 50, 000 people email us, but our businesses are very successful. So, I think this was really nice to hear and basically, we both said it's confirmation that what we're doing is right.
Kendra: Yeah, and I felt like I got a lot of validation and over that couple days of "Yeah, we're doing the right things," and I loved what he said about the Facebook thing because think about when you're watching a Facebook video. There's notifications popping up. Those little notifications pop up on the left now. Facebook doesn't actually want you to stay on and watch these long form video.
Kendra: They're trying to distract you, and that's why a lot of people aren't watching the video from start to finish that maybe is a 20 or 30 minute long video because they're so distracted by everything Facebook is trying to do. Whereas your YouTube people, they're on YouTube, they go on YouTube to watch videos, they are coming in without expectation and there's no distractions for the most part, right? They just see that video. So ...
Christine: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kendra: I thought that was really interesting. If you're gonna put all your effort into editing and creating this beautiful video series, it's probably gonna do way better on YouTube and you're probably gonna create better relationships that way than on Facebook.
Christine: It's definitely going to perform better. I mean, the science is there and also the statement that Mark Zuckerberg did was basically that they don't want people to waste time on social media, which is hilarious as he's running Facebook, but that was his statement. That they want to encourage people not to mindlessly idle on social media. So they want to be more targeted, they really want to perform more quality content, and they don't want people to just zone out and watch cat videos anymore. So, no basically.
Kendra: I know that's super fun to do.
Christine: Do tell that to the Dodo. The Dodo page is my downfall. I spend hours crying whenever I go to-
Kendra: Oh no! Why? What is it?
Christine: The Dodo is about rescue animals of all [crosstalk 00:06:43]
Christine: Animals and rescue and stories of ... It's just like ... Aw, dude. It's such a ... Just this vortex of cute.
Kendra: Oh my god.
Christine: But I love it. So, in general, Facebook's trying to not make you do that. So, that was a big takeaway.
Christine: Lessly in terms of marketing, but also in terms of really look at the platform tries to do and it's not about quantity anymore. It really, really isn't. So that was-
Kendra: Yeah, and I think what does better on Facebook too is the live video He did talk about that because if you're on a live video, you can actually be engaging with your people. It's not just you talking at people, and Facebook really wants you to engage. They want you to have meaningful conversations. So, you can't do that if you just make a beautiful video and dump it out onto your Facebook page, but if you're on there live, then you can actually be having those conversations with people as that video unfolds. So ...
Kendra: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Way better place for live video.
Christine: Exactly. Consistently, live video seems to be the secret sauce and he gave the example of ... What's her name? Rachel Hollis? Is that her name?
Kendra: I believe so. Yeah.
Christine: She's doing a coffee video-
Kendra: Oh yeah.
Christine: Every morning, and she has thousands and thousands of people interacting with her. Definitely not something that I would do, but as an example that it works.
Kendra: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Christine: So ...
Kendra: Yeah. Totally.
Christine: Very interesting. Then, the second workshop or actually, the first workshop that we did ... The first day, they were 90 minutes ...
Kendra: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Christine: They were really definitely more hands-on-
Kendra: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Christine: Was by and now, I'm super embarrassed because I don't remember his name.
Kendra: His name was Park Howl-
Christine: There we go.
Kendra: And it was about storytelling, and yeah. That was another really common theme in the conference was tell stories. People love to hear stories. So how can you wind your story or your clan's stories into your marketing, into your copy, into the way that you're engaging with people? And during that workshop, he actually taught us how to create our own stories. So it was very actionable, and we really loved that. We both created stories. We actually created a story for this podcast while we were in San Diego.
Christine: Oh yeah. We did. Where did we-
Kendra: Yeah. Yeah. We did, and he was a great speaker. I really loved how he brought in so many components and different media and humor and it was really great, but his kind of formula for storytelling ... A good story is the ABT, which is the 'and, but, therefore' framework, right?
Christine: Yeah. Exactly. So, we actually ... Do you have our story on hand?
Kendra: Yeah. I do. I'm gonna read [crosstalk 00:09:18] it right now.
Christine: Also, the ands, buts, therefore. So you have three paragraphs, and every good story ... And he gave examples of Air B and B having an ad. It was a cartoony kind of thing, and it was super nice about the Berlin Wall and how it brings people together. Air B&B and stuff. It was exactly that structure, and he gave a lot of examples and it's short, but it's super efficient and you can use it on your website, you can use it in your videos, you can use it everywhere. So, this is the example of what we came up for; the and, but, therefore.
Kendra: Okay. So it's both of us were working successfully in our health practices, and we really connected over the marketing component of our businesses after running a webinar series together on public speaking. But, we also discovered that selling health is very different than selling other products and other types of services, and most health coaches and professionals are taught an outdated business model; one that fails to get them clients without burning out. Therefore, we created the 360 Health Biz Podcast to teach health coaches and professionals how to use health specific marketing strategies that actually work and keep them up to date with the latest health research.
Christine: I love it. You know, that should be our intro. It's so good.
Kendra: Yeah. It is so good. We could probably tailor it down a little bit, but yeah. You get that ... So we have that first thing, which is our statement. This is our statement about re- [crosstalk 00:10:44] us, our relationship, how we met, and then that but. But we found that there was this issue. There was this problem. There was this struggle.
Christine: The struggle.
Kendra: Therefore, we created the solution, right?
Christine: Which is us, right?
Christine: Exactly, and if you want to go more into depth, he also says the story elements, if you really want to make sure you don't miss anything, it's the when, the where, the who, the what, and the ah-hah, right? So, and he had a 10 step method that he talks about. So, what makes it different, and then, they are the hero of the story when you talk about your customers. It's not about you. It's about them, what they stand to gain or lose by not working with you, what has happened or is happening in their lives right now that is changing, that is making your service more timely urgent and relevant than ever before. Competitive, time, money, voice of fear that keeps them from working with you. So objection. Then, reinforcing that you are the mentor so how you are uniquely equipped by wisdom et cetera. What do people tell themselves about you that you need to be able to connect with? What does their success look like? Those little milestones, so that they can picture it. What in the stories are our, your values, beliefs that they share? And then, what is your ask? What to do next?
So that's basically, in a nutshell, the structure that he taught us afterwards in a more detailed example. So you have all of that right here, so take not. But ... Fantastic. I really think that if you get that done, whether it is in a blog post, whether it is in your mission statement video, whether it is on your about page, you are on the golden side. I think this is super, super important.
Kendra: Yeah. And I think it just makes it easier for yourself. Suddenly, you know how to talk in your marketing, and you can continue to share that story over and over on different platforms, to different subcategories in your audience and I think ... When you know what your story is, when you know what your values are, when you know what you stand for and how people can change their lives by connecting with you and buying your product or service, I mean, it makes everything a lot easier.
Christine: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kendra: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Christine: Gulp. Gulp.
Kendra: Well, yeah, yeah. I'm getting a little cut right now.
Christine: When [inaudible 00:13:22] it's a nice line people. It was nice ... The minute [inaudible 00:13:28] right here. Alright. So that was storytelling, and then, connecting to that, we went to another workshop about Instagram stories because both of us really started to fall into the vortex of Instagram stories. It's hilarious. It's so much fun, but it's also super, super powerful, and so we were basically taught there's different components to Instagram stories. And she divided it into four buckets, and we were in a workshop that basically looked at one. So, can you remember the four buckets?
Kendra: So, I think the four buckets was Instagram in general. So it was Instagram live, it was the feed, it was IGTV, and it was stories. So, Instagram is kind of a beast and it's almost a bit of an overwhelming platform because you have four different of these pretty big buckets right, and they all ... The way you interact in each of hem is a little bit different, right? Your feed is gonna be more curated, more pretty, gorgeous pictures, really nice captions. Your IG live is more like your instant connection, really off the cuffs, but then it disappears after 24 hours. And then, you have your IGTV, which is longer form video. You get 10 minutes if you're under ... If you're not an approved account. So under 10K, but that's kind of your longer form video better for teaching, but then we have stories, right? And stories, like Christine said, are very powerful because they ... A lot of people are watching stories.
More people on Instagram than any other of those buckets are going into the stories, and it's a great way to connect, it's a great way to be creative, it's a great way to really express your brand. So, we were learning a lot about how to specifically use stories to build a brand, but also, by using all the different features. And one big thing that she said, and this was a talk from Susan Urman. I like her. I loved her crazy dress and she was really fun and-
Christine: Fun. Yeah.
Kendra: Animated. She was great, but she says to have a plan for your story. So ...
Christine: Which we are so bad [crosstalk 00:15:26] at. Both of us looked at each other. Oh.
Kendra: We're just like bam, bam, bam, bam, but you know ... And that plan doesn't always have to be this big, educational piece. Sometimes that plan might just to be to share something from your personal life. But keep in mind that you should be trying to tell a story with it rather than just bam! Me eating. Bam! Me biking. Bam! Meal with my kid, or whatever, right? Actually trying [crosstalk 00:15:52] sequentially. Maybe in four of those posts, tell a story.
Christine: Exactly. It might be that you are getting ready to put on your gear to bike. Then it might be your journey up the mountain, and then it might be a little snippet of you racing down, and then it might be a snippet of you in the hospital you know?
Kendra: I'll just take that selfie of myself as I race down the mountain on my mountain bike. We'll see how that goes. It will be like me eating shit and breaking my face [crosstalk 00:16:17] I'm gonna give it a go.
Christine: Me and my broken face. But you get the caption.
Kendra: Yeah. Totally.
Christine: And I'm trying to be more mindful now when I do the Instagram stories. Just is this worth sharing? Is this worth wasting people's time on, even if I do really like it?
Kendra: Wasting your own time too. It takes time to upload these. These are not things that you can schedule out in advance, right?
Christine: No you can't.
Kendra: But you know, Christine, you made that story that I saw at the airport from when your flight got canceled, and I was blown away. I was like, "Holy shit! That was really good. She just crushed that story." And I was like, "How did you even do that?" It looked so good. It was a quality story. You even mentioned ECAM. You even got a good mention of the brand, which we now know that ECAM is a three-person company. So we're all up on them.
Christine: We adore them.
Kendra: We adore them [crosstalk 00:17:15]
Christine: Very nice. Yeah.
Kendra: But yeah. I was like, "Wow! I need to take lessons from you now."
Christine: So let me tell you the story, actually, for you guys. So my flight was originally in the evening from San Diego to London, and then I had just about an hour layover, and then London Luxembourg. And in the morning, thank god I got an email or a notification that my flight in the evening was canceled, which would mean that my layover would only have been 17 minutes, which would have been impossible. It's too big. There's no way. So I called British Airways and I was re booked, but the only way that I could do this was if I had to go from L.A. So basically, I recorded my ode to stay from San Diego to Los Angeles and beyond, and it was not easy to get there because it was Sunday. I'm a little bit posh. So I didn't want to take the Am Track. It took me five Lyft and Uber drivers to actually find one who took me because they were like, "It's too far. I don't have time."
Thank you Vincent from San Diego. Lyft driver. You are forever my savior, and basically, what I did was along the journey, I just took little snippets of the coast or of the environment or of wherever we were driving past and I used the following: So, when we were in the workshop, we were told that you should always use ... If you can, you should use the same filter, if you do use a filter. I don't so I didn't do that, and color. So I already decided on a color palette that reflects my branding, which is mainly pink. Bright pink, dark pink, and green. So I tried to stick to that. If you can, you can also use the same font. I tried ... I have two that I use mainly, and use stickers, use polls, location stickers, hashtag stickers, mention as much as you can, and swipe up if possible.
And so ... And tag strategically and so forth. And so, I did that. I really tagged ... So obviously, I tagged every location. I used the location sticker wherever I went. So I actually got into stories of these locations. So, into San Diego's story. So when they see that ... When you tag location stories or when you take your location, they will pull you out and put you into their feed, which is super cool.
Kendra: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Christine: And then, I used GIF all the time to make it fun. And I mentioned ECAM because I have their stickers on my laptop now, so I just used that when I was in the business lounge, and you can basically see my journey through ... Along the coast, because he took the scenic route to LAX, to the business lounge, into the plane, and it was a story. It was just my journey and it was live and it took ... It takes three hours to get there. So it was fun to do. That said.
Kendra: Yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Christine: So that worked, and there are different tricks that you can use to change the background color and all of these things. You can find them on YouTube. It's not that difficult to do, actually. But it really changed my opinion of stories, because you can get super creative and she compared it to scrap booking.
Christine: And that's a little bit what it is, because you want everything to be nice and fun and also, to typically make use of it. So, I'm really trying to each time, find a hashtag, mention someone if I can, and to use the location ... What's it called? Location sticker, I guess.
Kendra: Yeah. Just like where you tag the locations, but yeah. I think that's really cool, and I mean, it is a really cool place where you can engage and you should try to engage. One that I use all the time is the poll functions. You can ask little questions and people can vote. So that gets people to engage in your stories, and then there's also an Ask Me Anything sticker as well. So after you tell a story, you could've said, "Ask me anything about working from the road," or "Ask me anything about whatever you just told your story about" and then people can go in and they can ask you question and you can repost those stickers and have a quick video of you talking and answering the question or you can just do a text version of that.
Christine: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kendra: That's really cool too, and I see a lot of bigger accounts using that quite a bit. And people get really excited. I have a colleague who has an Ask Me Anything Tuesday or something like that, so people know that every Tuesday, they can go and ask her anything and then she's gonna answer all the questions. So I think, there's a lot of really cool ways you can engage your audience.
Christine: Yeah, and also something that you suggested, and I haven't checked it out yet but it's the Unfold app?
Kendra: Oh yeah.
Christine: It's called Unfold [crosstalk 00:21:52]
Kendra: What was that about?
Christine: I have it in my notes. I don't remember what it is to be honest. It's use the Unfold app, and I think it's that you can actually use in your stories, you can use a grid.
Christine: So that you can use more than just the video; that you can actually use four pictures in [crosstalk 00:22:09]
Kendra: Oh yeah. I've seen that. I've seen that. That's cool. Okay.
Christine: Yeah. So that's a little tidbit here of wisdom that I took in my notes. I took notes guys. I never took notes. I feel ... It goes to show that I would've forgotten everything if I hadn't taken notes and ... Oh yeah! And also, use older posts and share them in story. And I think that's amazing because I was thinking I have so many posts. I have my interviews three years ago when I was an entrepreneur on fire. I never use it. Why not? You know? Use it in your stories. Just take the graphic, use it, say 'link in bio' for that day, and it's true. You have so much content and because it's only there for 24 hours, you can repurpose so much.
Kendra: You can repurpose it. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely, and I know this is not from Social Media Marketing World but it is from the su- We saw Chalene Johnson who used to be the Beachbody lady and now she has her podcast, I believe is Build Your Own Tribe, but her son, Brock, does some episodes and he said ... Oh my gosh. I'm brain farting. And it's gone from my brain.
Oh no! No I got it. It's back. When you do an Instagram live, it only stays for 24 hours, but you can save the Instagram live and put it onto IGTV. So I thought that was cool because then you're doing-
Kendra: If you're gonna take that time to do a live video. It's a period after 24 hours, you might as well repurpose it somewhere else.
Christine: Exactly. Yeah. And I actually mindlessly did Instagram live for different things. I was like, "Okay. This is not worth people's time." You know? So, in the end ... For me, in the beginning, Instagram was my personal life. I used Facebook for professional reasons. I have Instagram to push my [inaudible 00:23:58] and what I had for breakfast, and it completely changed to be honest. Because now, I consider myself as an influencer and I need to curate and prune my Instagram versus my Facebook private page. It's just that's where I now post my personal stuff and my Facebook business page nobody watches anyway, but that's where my business content goes as well.
Christine: I think the dynamics between Facebook and Instagram have completely flipped. Not for everyone, but for a lot of people.
Kendra: Yeah. I'm the same way as you. I used to use Facebook like crazy. I barely even use my personal page anymore. Sometimes, I go on there and ask for recommendations but I barely post anything on there, but I love Instagram. I am on it all the time. It's more engaging. More people. You get more reach, and from a business perspective, there's so many ways you can reach people on it, and it's tough with a Facebook business page, right? It's not an engaging platform, right? It's just [crosstalk 00:24:55]
Christine: You're literally set up for ... Not necessarily completely, but I think it's more difficult and you have to be very smart about it. And again, get you to not be bigger is better and we saw that's what brings us to our last point that we want to share with you. We saw the absolutely, fantastic, amazing ...
Kendra: We have two points left, by the way.
Christine: We do?
Kendra: Our second last ... Yeah. We have to talk about Pat Flynn.
Christine: Yeah. See. So ... Oops. [crosstalk 00:25:24]
Kendra: That's why I'm here. That's why I'm here.
Christine: Thank goodness for you guys. But we watched Amanda Bond, who I adore and I signed up for her Facebook app called ... And she basically just did the gist on their presentation.
Kendra: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Christine: What her main message is, and we're going to go into it in a little bit more detail, but it's that you cannot just tell people to opt into anything anymore. You cannot [inaudible 00:25:49] code audience, even if it means it's only asking for their email address.
Kendra: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Christine: So her strategy is that you really have to thought backwards. Your sell or your ask, even if ask, it's not even to sell something is the last thing you do. So, she starts out with just an engagement ads. Just making a statement, polarizing, asking questions. Maybe say that there's a blog post about it, but then she doesn't even do it in the ad. She does it in the comments.
Kendra: Mm-hmm (affirmative) [crosstalk 00:26:22]
Christine: She doesn't cling to it.
Kendra: Literally just looking for it. Even ask a question to your audience that makes sense. If you are a food preparation expert, you can ask people what are your biggest issues with food prep or do you prefer to food prep on Sunday night or Friday night or whatever, right? Because then you can also get some more information about your audience that is ... It makes sense, but you know, at the same time, you're just getting people to engage and getting out in front of them. Seeing them, be like, "Hey. This is me."
Christine: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kendra: Just kind of starting to plant those seeds, and so that was her engagement ad.
Christine: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kendra: And then, what were her other two? There was testimonials and objections, right?
Christine: Exactly. So testimony is where where she literally used testimonials from past clients, screenshots. It works really well for her if she uses Facebook app, obviously, because she can literally take a screenshot of the power editor and show results and then objections. She always has a sequence of three.
Kendra: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Christine: So, if you've seen the first one, then you get the second one, and then you get the third one. So she's really ... Every category from engagement to testimonial to objection has three ads. So it's nine in total, I believe. If I remember correctly, but it's very strategic, and she explains other strategies that she uses. And I think it makes complete sense, and again, it's not about the more it is. It's about being strategic, it's being personal, it's story related, it's not ... Old school marketing is just not working anymore and when I talk old school, I mean five years ago.
Kendra: Yeah. Old school ... It doesn't take long to become old school in today's world and online marketing. You know, just because you can get a cheap cost per lead when you're running a Facebook ad doesn't mean that's a high quality lead. That doesn't mean that that someone who's even gonna open your email and download your freebie or your lead magnet or whatever that is. That doesn't mean they're gonna end up buying eventually. So, I think I love her strategy because it builds that know like and trust factor for a fairly long time. So by the time she's actually asking people to do something, and I thought it was really interesting that she doesn't even use lead magnets. Right? She just sends people the sequence of blog posts, which I think is really cool, but if you are using a lead magnet, by the time ... If you're doing this sort of strategy where you're getting them to engage, you're showing them the testimonial and how you've helped other people, you're dealing with their objections to what they might have for your product or service.
By the time you're asking them to get on your email list, they might be super stoked to get on your email list and get your freebie. So they're more likely to open that email, they're more likely to actually use and finish your freebie, and then they're way more likely to stay on your email list and engage on your list, right? And eventually, buy, right? Because I've had this issue too. I'm really good at getting a low cost for leads with my Facebook ads. I'm pretty good at that, but I have noticed ... This didn't always used to be the issue, but in the past year, a lot of those leads, they're just not that-
Christine: High convert.
Kendra: High quality. They don't convert. They just want the free thing and then they're gone.
Christine: Mm-hmm (affirmative). It's like the phenomenon with quizzes and for some time, if we quiz, it was the opt in thing when it's been over and over again shown that while you have the biggest opt in, it converts like a motherfucker when you do it in terms of people finding opts, but at the end of the funnel, you don't have conversion when it comes to paying money. So quizzes, whenever I hear someone saying, "I just did a quiz. I want to do a quiz." It's like, don't do it. You will be so disappointed. You will have to pay for your leads, even if they're not expensive, you have to pay for your email provider because your list will grow and you have to pay for those people and they will not buy.
Christine: They will more likely report you as a spammer getting you into trouble with your email provider rather than even spend 27 bucks on a product of yours. So, that's a little bit of takeaway that I've seen and what she taught was totally aligned with that.
Kendra: Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree. I had a quiz or something like a self assessment or something like that that I did under the advice of a coach and it got me really cheap leads. It converted really well, but it just didn't ... Those people didn't even open my email.
Kendra: They didn't open my emails and I ended up deleting a lot of them and I paid big money for them.
Kendra: Yeah. So, when you think about it, when you're kind of scrolling on your Facebook feed and there's a quiz, you may not have that issue but you're like, "Oh, I'm just interested. I just want to see how I do on the quiz," and they you're done, right?
Christine: Yeah. Like, "Don't bother with me your product you slime ball," right? And I get people. I really do. So nowadays, it's like, "Ugh. I don't even want to click on it because I know I'll have to give away my email address, which I don't want to do." So that was definitely an interesting talk and I suggest you check out Amanda. She's fantastic.
Kendra: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Christine: And then, the last point we want to talk about I remembered is Pat Flynn. So check out Pat Flynn with his podcast ... What is it? Passive Income ... Not Passive Income? More Passive Income ...
Kendra: Yeah. Smart Passive Income. Yeah.
Christine: Smart Passive Income. He is a phenomenal speaker. He's launched a product on Kickstarter, which is like a tripod. It's basically an alternative to the Jobe [crosstalk 00:31:53]
Kendra: Yeah the gorilla.
Christine: Tripod, which I'm using mine here. You're using it as well? I'm using mine here, but yeah. I have my issues with it too. But their using [inaudible 00:32:04] and it's been very successful, but he talked about how they did it. What their process was like, and in a nutshell, what they did was they really went ... You can imagine it like a sweet, and they would make sure they had green lights all the way and the way that they did it was by talking to people. So they went to conferences where vloggers hung out, people who used it. They showed them a couple models, they showed them the idea, they asked them what they wanted, what they needed. And so, once they knew what they wanted, they did the prototype and then they would just ... Every step before they basically spend money in a way, they would make sure that the idea was revalidated.
Christine: And it's a massive success already.
Kendra: Yeah. It is, and it's actually ... It looks like a really good product, but yeah. And he talked a lot about having those real conversations. The way they ended up creating it was talking to people, right?
Christine: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kendra: They were talking to people and hearing that this Gorilla pod just wasn't ... It was annoying. It would blah, blah, blah. It didn't do this. It lacked this. It was good for this but not this sort of thing. And you know, and we were kind of talking before we started recording about sort of the full circle of marketing, right? Because back in the day before this big online beast, people marketed through networking and having conversations with people, and then we got online and we stopped doing that for a while. And it worked for a few years, but these days, it's coming back around where people don't buy from brands. They buy from people. If you want to be successful, you have to know your people. You have to talk to them. You have to have those conversations and develop those relationships. So it is all coming very full circle and I really love that.
Christine: Exactly, and we're going to add a point here because I'm just reading my notes and this is from the influencer conference that we-
Kendra: Oh yeah.
Christine: Went to, and quote ... It doesn't make sense, but they want to ... Influencer services are important to engage with brand customers because brand can't compete with amateurs. Fact.
Kendra: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Christine: Because people tell stories that brands can't.
Christine: People tell stories because they use it in their every day life, and a brand can't do it. If you have an ad created by a brand, it can do whatever it wants to. It's not the same thing as a real life person telling that story. So, influencers understand the audience. Companies usually only create content about the company-
Kendra: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Christine: But that is not social media.
Christine: And I find it very true. Very often ... I can see it in Luxembourg a lot of the time. PR agencies in Luxembourg are so old school. They don't know what brand experience really is and I find they really lack that connect that people are craving nowadays. And that's the job of an influencer; it's creating word of mouth in social media. So ... And they really say social media should be about collaboration and not just marketing.
Christine: So, it's the democratization of media influence, which-
Kendra: Ooh. I love it.
Christine: Very, very smart. So those are just a couple of things that we took away from this but I think it ties in, again, that if you are a big brand, in the end, people want to connect. They do want the touch for sure, but in the end, a lot of people ... The first thing that they will do is they're going to look for reviews, they're gonna look for what is happening in life, and ultimately, only real people can tell that story.
Christine: So again, it's coming ... Boiling down to people and I think we are more people-centered than we've been in a very long time.
Kendra: I think so too, and I think that yeah. Just with the fact that so many people are really busy and so many people are on social media, we've really gotten disconnected. So people want to connect again. They really want to know people, and a big reason why brands are looking for these micro influencers because you know, not only are they way more likely to work harder, because they're trying to build themselves too, right? They're not just some Hollywood influencer who's whatever, but it's [crosstalk 00:36:22]
Christine: Anyone. [crosstalk 00:36:25]
Kendra: Watch that on Netflix.
Christine: You have to watch it on Netflix, and you know, that's what ... I think that was a huge wake up call in terms of that ... The huge influencers. Not necessarily the best value for your money.
Kendra: Yeah. Totally, and I think, with your ... Just having smaller businesses; this is great, because if you're new to your business or you're mid-level, you probably don't have a really big following and that's okay. You don't need to ever have one. Me and Christine have very small social media followings. We have very small lists. We're successful. We can generate large amounts of money when we want to, and it's because we put the time in to get to know our people, to get to know our niche, and know who we're talking to. And when you know your people, you know what to create for them, honestly.
Christine: Exactly. Speaking to your brand, it's about being an expert in your field. I mean, I work with brands as an influencer and it's because I know my shit, right? Because they know that if they have a journalist who wants to do a piece on their product, they can send me because I can talk about the product but I can also talk about the research behind it. I can talk about the theory behind it. I can talk about the science behind it, and I have tested it. So I can talk about my experience behind it. And that's this full 360 package that you can't get if you just send a media kit right?
Kendra: Yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Christine: And I think nobody should be too shy to do that if your niche is important. Whatever your niche is, trust in it. Get out there. Present it. Every piece of media, you can use it. You just need to be creative and think out of the box.
Kendra: Yeah. Absolutely, and even though if you feel like you're small beans, there might be someone ... And you want to work with brands. There may be a brand that's looking for someone just like you.
Kendra: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Christine: So, whoa baby. That was a lot! That was my glass of wine destroyed.
Kendra: That was awesome.
Christine: It was a great episode this one. I have to say.
Kendra: It was a good episode, and we really recommend that conference. We really learned a lot, and we really wanted to kind of give you the conference on steroids.
Christine: You should join us next year. We should do a 360 [crosstalk 00:38:44]
Christine: Podcast kind of tribe getaway.
Kendra: Yeah we can just have a meetup. Totally.
Christine: Together. Yeah.
Kendra: I love it. Yeah, it's really fun to connect with people in person, right? Because we're so much behind our screens. I'm in a tiny little town. No one here ... They're like, "So what do you do?" I'm like, "I'm not even gonna bother telling you." You're all gonna look at me like I have three heads. So ...
Christine: And I took a fifth Uber, you guys. [crosstalk 00:39:10]
Kendra: That was so fun.
Christine: Kind of has a whole new world.
Kendra: Oh my god. It blew my mind. Uber Eats, Uber. I guess we use Lyft more than Uber, but I was like, "This is awesome, because my ... I don't love the city, but one of my biggest issues of the city is it's so hard to get around. If you rent a car, I'm stressed out driving because I don't know where I'm going. You take transit, it takes forever. Cabs are so expensive. So it's just ... You know, I don't love the experience, but the day that we were apart, which was crazy that we were apart for today, but I was in three Ubers just cruising around. I went there, there, there. I just would go on Google and what should I do next? Oh! Kombucha brewery? Yes please! And I'd book a Lyft to there.
Christine: Oh it was a great time. I mean, yeah. It was a good, good event and San Diego is always nice especially in the winter or when it's just not spring yet. It was lovely, so we're definitely going to check in again next year and we're hoping that you will join us. So, let us know if this has been helpful.
Kendra: Yeah. It was super good.
Christine: And give us feedback. Check out our Instagram stories that are going to be super branded and super nice.
Kendra: Yeah, and [crosstalk 00:40:24] Listening to your episode on your smartphone, screenshot this episode, share it on Instagram stories, tag 360 Health Biz Podcast, and we will share it in our stories because we love Instagram stories now. So you should probably do that.
Christine: Yeah. Let's do a quick post for the Instagram story. Well cute. We do very great poses. So anyways, nevermind. We will watch out for our tag on Instagram stories, and yeah. That's it for us today.
Kendra: Bye everyone