Tools mentioned in this episode:
ewg.org/skindeep EWG empowers people to live healthier lives in a healthier environment. With breakthrough research and education, driving consumer choice and civic action
BioSil An advanced collagen generator. Clinically proven collagen generating supplement promotes healthier hair, skin and nails.
Oceans Alive is the ultimate superfood. A premium blend of two specially cultivated, hand-selected marine phytoplankton strains.
UNIKEY The best nutritional supplements for weight loss, detox, cleansing and anti-aging
Econugenics Pectasol-C The most advanced and effective Modified Citrus Pectin (MCP) supplement available.
- Grab our FREE Practitioner Tool Kit to get a list and review of all the platforms Kendra and Christine use personally in their businesses to save time, money and generate consistent income.
Christine: Hello and welcome to this episode of the 360 HealthBiz Podcast here with the beautiful Kendra Perry,
Christine: Who is going to blow your minds today, and myself, Christine Hansen. So we're super excited to be here with you today for this episode. But before we dive in, we have a little request that would make us so happy and that would feature you on our show. And that is if you hope over to iTunes right now and you leave us a five star review, we would be super, super, super grateful, and we would actually also read it on the podcast with your names. So have your little claim to fame, your couple of seconds of fame on our show, and that would be absolutely amazing, and we would know on the right track.
Christine: So press pause and head over to iTunes right now. And as always, don't forget that Kendra and I will have an amazing Freebie for you on our website the 360healthbizpodcast.com where you have a huge box where it says that you can get a free tool kit, which is absolutely essential for anyone who's either starting out with a health coaching business, considering starting a coaching business, or someone who's in the middle of having a health coaching business, or someone who has been doing it for ages and still wants to see if there are some little nuggets that were just missed. And so we, we share all the tools that we're using and that has made our lives so much easier.
Kendra: Yeah. And I actually just beefed it up too. I threw in, an example of a really good client contract and a really good example of a claim intake form. So I just juiced it up a little bit.
Christine: Amazing. But if you have it already, don't worry, you can just sign up again and you will get sent the link straight away.
Christine: Perfect. Alright, so we're going to dive straight into our content today. So we don't have a guest, but it's our, both of us today. And we're going to do continuous education episode, and we're going to talk about detox today. And personally it's been something that I had on the radar for a long time, but I never really saw the issue with, issues with it until I dove deeper and actually realized how inconsiderate a lot of programs and unfortunately even schools are with detoxing, right? So we consider it something super easy, something that you can do whenever, but actually it's something pretty serious that you're doing to your body. So Kendra is an absolute wizard with these topics. I'm going to let her take the lead, take notes people, because this is going to make your practice so much more efficient. You will be ahead of the curve because you will know things that your clients never heard before and nobody else has told them that it's going to make you a much better practitioner. So Kendra, take it away.
Kendra: Awesome. And I love talking about this topic because I think it's a really misused word. I think detoxification is a very important process that we should always be thinking about all of us, whether you're a practitioner, client, everyone needs to be thinking about it, but it's a really overused, like kind of butchered word and it almost kinda has lost, it's like street cred to some degree because everyone out there is telling you that this will make you detox, that will make you detox, but when you actually kind of break down the building blocks of what that program or product actually is, like a lot of these things, they actually don't improve detox and a lot of them actually prevent detox altogether. So it's kind of one of my missions to try to make people better understand this because in my personal opinion, if you're not detoxing on the regular, you're going to be sick,
Kendra: and not gonna have energy and you're going to have a hard time losing weight and you're gonna have brain fog and you're going to end up with chronic illness.
Christine: Exactly. I think that is like the number one thing that my clients are very surprised about when they tell that they want to go to someone who wants to do a detox with them and I always ask them, 'are you sure is your body actually ready for this? And detoxing can be very dangerous. If you're already sick. It might not be the best idea to do full on detox.' And they look at me like super surprised. I find that is already showing that you have more knowledge than you know, a general, just like the average practitioner may be or someone who's just, you know, just dip, dabbling with supplements for funds.
Christine: Right. Well let's go into detox and maybe, you know, when I play the devil's advocate, when I think about detox, what I used to think was that you take a product, you eat certain foods and then your body just eliminates all the crap that it has inside and once it's done, you clean and shiny and sparkly, and everything is just working like a new brand new Ferrari engine. Right. So correct me if I'm wrong. Which I'm sure I am.
Kendra: Yeah. And there's a few, there's some truth to what you said, but then there's some caveats as well. And yeah, we're going to go through what detoxification actually is today, why it's important, but I'm also going to tell you how you can design an effective safe detox for your clients, where it actually gives the client what you're telling them, it's that you're giving them. Because a lot of people are like, 'oh, sign up for my detox program,' but the program actually doesn't help you detox. And so it is true. Like our body's always detoxing, right? Like we have detoxification pathways and methods and organs and cells in the body. And if that process were to ever stop, you'd probably be dead within a couple days, right? Like you wouldn't live very long because, you know, we're always, you know, bringing this crap into her body. So like detox, it's not just like, 'oh, like I do this detox once a year and I'm good.' Like, it's like, 'no,'like your body actually is always detoxing. Your body is very good at it. But the sort of caveat is the fact that we live in a very different than we did 100 years ago, right. In the industrialized world, puts a lot of chemicals into the environment and right now there's upwards of 84,000 chemicals in the environment in North America. I don't know what it is for Europe, but it's probably similar because we share the same planet, right? There's winds and currents and that stuff gets kind of spread around the globe. So you know, there's all these chemicals now being added into our environment. Only a fraction of them are actually being tested for human safety. Very few of them are actually being tested for long-term. The approval process of getting a new chemical in the US is ridiculous. Like they just like push it through. It's a little different in Europe. You guys are a little bit more advanced North American.
Christine: Yeah, it's like a proven until the innocent or proven until guilty kind of [inaudible]. In the US it's like anything is fair game until you prove that it's absolutely horrible. In Europe it's, you know, we're not letting it on the market until you prove that it's safe, right. So.
Kendra: Yeah. And I mean that's a much better perspective and I know like when it comes to ingredients in our personal care products, like Europe's were called thousands, whereas I think the US is, we're called maybe five or six or something.
Christine: I know.
Kendra: So it's like, okay, that's a pretty big difference. But you know, a lot of the chemicals that, you know, we exist with that we live in, we live in a very chemical world and they've been connected to allergies, cancer, birth defects, you know, mental health issues, psychological disorders, like they're all around us and like we are getting exposed like, I don't care if you are living in Nepal, at the top of the Himalayas, like in a mud hut. Like, you still have some of these things in your body. And the research is pretty clear on that, Christine. Like there's studies of a human breast milk, and in human breast milk, I mean they find persistent organic pollutants, they find heavy metals, they find pesticides, all kinds of contaminants, in human breast milk, right? Like, how's it getting in there? Well, it's getting absorbed into the body through food, water, skin, air, that sort of thing. And then that is making people very sick and this is, like, a topic that I think we all need to pay really big attention to. Like I know in the functional medicine world, everyone is talking about the gut and that's great. Yes, digestive health is important. We had an episode about poop. We love poop, we love the gut, but it doesn't go deep enough for me. And I think, you know, everyone saying, well the gut is the root of all illness. I think that's really misled, because I honestly believe it's chemicals, metals, toxins. It's our toxic environment because, you know, we see in our practices. Like me and Christine do a lot of gut testing and what we see is chronic infections that we have a really hard time clearing, even though they eat really well and they live a healthy lifestyle. They get all these infections. So the big question is like, well why is the gut so unhealthy? Especially when people are actually leading a pretty healthy lifestyle. Right? And I think that's where we start to dig into all these underlying toxins and chemicals that are making their way into our bodies.
Christine: Yeah. And I think the main organ or one of the biggest organs that we have, that we tend to neglect as our skin. Right?
Christine: So I tell people if you're chronically ill, if there's lots of things going wrong, just thinking about what you put on your skin. If you wouldn't put it into your mouth then don't put it on your skin because it's getting absorbed just as much, right.
Christine: And that is something that make a big shift in a lot of people, who in the beginning of hesitant, you know, who are like, 'oh yeah, well there's no parabens in there anymore, or maybe no sulphates and no soda cans,' but, you know, that's not it, that's not enough.
Kendra: Yeah. And there's other things in there too. A lot of products that tout themselves as natural health products, like when you actually look at the ingredients, you can find all kinds of stuff. And a really great resource is actually the environmental working group, ewg.org/skindeep. I think. You can actually input your personal care product into their database and it'll come up with all the ingredients and like what studies have linked them to. So you can actually get a safety rating for everything you're using or if you don't have time for that, you're like, I'm too fucking busy. I don't have time for that. Just look at their top rated lists. They have like a top 10 list for a lot of different products.
Kendra: And so that's a really good place to start. And I mean I think obviously with detox, like people will, you know, spend 10 days a year during their little cleanse or their little detox, and think that they're good, but you know, if you're not doing anything to address the incoming source then detoxification doesn't work. Right? It's like you've got this, like, sink with a tap that won't stop running and you clear the drain temporarily, but if you don't actually address the leak, I mean that sinks just going to keep overflowing and filling up. So I think detox always needs to start with looking at our environment and really kind of, I guess looking at our relationship with chemicals, right? Like what, how are we letting chemicals into our lives? You know, are we drinking tap water? Tap water's a really huge source of toxicity. Christine's like, 'Oh my God, it's so toxic.' Yeah. Tap Water, even [inaudible] water.
Christine: You really notice the difference. I never thought, you know, everyone is always in Luxembourg your tap water is fine, and I'm like, you know, it's maybe not even the water, but it's like just the pipes.
Kendra: Oh yeah.
Christine: You live in Europe, it's super old. The pipes in the village I used to live, were was super, super old and I realized that after I switched to tap, to mineral water, from Luxembourg though, because I don't [inaudible] like have reactions, right.
Christine: It was so heavy it, so it really showed me that it's not [inaudible]. So I'm just a huge snob when it comes to water.
Kendra: Yeah. You should be a snob when it comes to water honestly, because it's the main way that people make themselves toxic and a lot of places will tell you like, 'oh, we have really, we have the cleanest drinking water.' But like, yeah, it's because it doesn't have like faecal contamination in it. It doesn't have maybe parasites or bacteria. But, they're not filtering for metals, pesticides, you know, they're not filtering. It's going to have chlorine in it. It's probably gonna have fluoride. And the biggest thing with municipal water is actually a drug residues, right? Everyone's taking drugs, people taking birth control or hormone replacement, diabetes medication, whatever. They pee it back out into the water and that goes back into your drinking system. So that's a really big one that people need to be considering as well. Yeah. So let's talk. I want to talk a little bit about like what actually is detoxification, and like what parts of the body...
Christine: Yeah [inaudible]
Kendra: Totally. I think we have a bit of a delay, Christine, you're kind of cutting in and out for me.
Christine: Yeah. But it's fine. I'm just [inaudible]. It's okay, I'm listening.
Kendra: Okay, cool. Yeah. So what is, you know, detoxification. It's kind of a sexy word, but what it actually is, what it actually should be called is conjugation, which isn't very sexy, but it's just basically the process of transforming one thing into another. Goes through several phases of detoxification and it comes out as something that our body can actually process and run through the colon, the sweat, the kidneys. Something that's safe, because you can't actually put a toxin into the body and just move it out as is, the body can't do that. It has to be transformed. And so there's actually four phases of detoxification. And I know Christine, that the liver gets all of the kind of fame for detoxification, but the liver actually detoxifies a lot less than the skin, and then the cells in the stomach. So the enterocytes in the stomach actually detoxify way more than the liver. So does the kidneys, so does all kinds of cells all over the body. So it's not just the liver. We shouldn't just be thinking about our liver. We actually need to be thinking about cellular detox. And basically the easiest way to break it down, and I should have a whiteboard behind me because it'd be really easy to describe, but basically there is phase zero and that's when the toxin goes into the cell. Once the toxin is in the cell there is phase one and phase two. And that's what most people are familiar with,
Kendra: there familiar with the phase one and the phase two. Phase one takes a fat soluble toxin, changes it into a peroxide, and then phase two takes that peroxide and turns it into a water soluble compound. And then phase three is when that, that talks and leaves that cell and then gets excreted. So there's actually four phases. Phase one and phase two or phase three, were all, were recently discovered, but there are those four phases. And we actually need to be supporting all of those phases when you do a detox. And what's really interesting is there are very famous, I'll call them famous, like detox ingredients that people will pump you full of during a detox. And they're virtually in every single detox product. I do my air quotes, but they actually, they actually blocked detoxification and...
Christine: What the fuck, right?
Kendra: Yeah. And to have these are milk thistle and curcumin.
Christine: Oh! [inaudible]
Kendra: I thought you'd have that reaction.
Christine: I'm like, hang on, in every program I've ever read it's like Qq is like, yeah, that's the thing you need to everyday put it into smoothies, put it everywhere, brush your teeth with it.
Kendra: Yeah. So, I mean, I'm not saying those are bad ingredients, but for the purposes of a detox, like if you actually want to help someone detoxify, milk thistle actually blocks the, the third phase of, of detoxification, so does curcumin. So those actually prevents those toxins from leaving the cell. Okay. Milk thistle is very helpful for the liver. Yes. It helps rebuild the liver. It's very good for that. But for the purposes of detox, like it's not something you should be taking long term. It's not something you should put into a detox product. So you're probably going to go into your shelf and look at all your detox supplements and you're gonna to have to throw them all out.
Christine: Throw them all out.
Kendra: Yeah. Because they're going to have that. And so I, you know, I think that's a really important thing to consider because there's lots of products on the market that tell you they are detox products and they're not, and this comes down to the fact that like when you're detoxifying, you actually need to have three things present. You need to have something that's going to immobilize, something that's going to like stir up the toxins because the toxins are getting stored pretty deeply in our body, right? They're getting stored in fat cells, brain cells, organs, tissues, like they get, they get put in there, and especially fat cells, Christine. Like fat cells are kind of like this nice little like membrane thing and
Kendra: the body can push a toxin into there and it'll protect it from the rest of the body, right? It'll protect that toxin from the rest of the body. So the body doesn't really want to immobilize that toxin. So it's, you have to do something that's going to immobilize.
Christine: That's also, I think why, you know, when women want to get pregnant, I always tell them that now is not a good time because, you know, if you get rid of of that basic unleashes that toxic [inaudible], that's the first step, right. It's not, you have a regular load, plus your actually going to unleash and what’s been stored up. And especially also I know that women with endometriosis, that tissue's very absorbent as well, so not just for hormones but also for toxins, so, which is why there are so many inflammation issues, you know,
Christine: So, it's, I'm just saying if you're a women or you're dealing with people who have fertility issues, be very mindful of that, right. And for anyone how has a health condition or who you know is going to go through a hard time or anything like that. Just as a word of warning. Do not start a detox. When you know that there's something happening very soon like that. So it's a big process. It's a big deal, right.
Christine: You don't know how much is in there, how much is stored in there, you don't know what it is. You don't know how the body's going to react to it. And so just a little disclaimer, free warning.
Kendra: No, I think that's a really good point. Pregnancy, nursing, these aren't times where you detox and yeah, when I work with clients it's like if we're on, if we have them on like a gut protocol, where they're getting rid of infections and maybe we're doing some detox that we have to kind of give that all a stop. We have to hold that until after they're done breastfeeding, because you're right, it's not a time to be detoxing. You don't want toxins to go into the placenta and into your baby. Right? So, yeah, that's a really good point. But I love how, what you said about endometriosis. Because that's a big one for toxins. Especially because a lot of the plastics in our environment, they mimic human estrogen and that's a really big issue with a lot of these toxins or xenobiotics is that they look very similar and they act very similar to human estrogen and hormonal issues I think are very much driven by this chemical toxicity. And you know, I think males are having the same issues. Like you know, too much estrogen in a male is going to lead to like man boobs and weight issues, right?
Christine: And sleep issues.
Kendra: Yes, and sleep issues. Sleep like a boss.
Christine: Yeah. And I can see that at a lot when I run into something like the Dutch test and I can see everything pointing towards something and then I have a woman with endometriosis, you know that the results might be skewed because those little fuckers are just holding on to their dear life in [inaudible]. So it's just good to know that.
Kendra: Yeah. Yeah. And definitely like, like you mentioned with endometriosis, like those tissues are very absorbent and they're absorbing a lot of chemicals and toxins. And then when that gets shed every month, I think that really pays into that inflammation and that extreme pain that women feel has endometriosis. A lot of detox needs to happen with endometriosis for sure.
Kendra: Yeah. And so we've talked about, so the three things that you need, we've talked about immobilization you need to, and I'm going to give you guys some examples of these. So this will help you design your own detox program. There's, you want to immobilize, you want to kind of move those toxins out of the cells, out of the tissues. Number two is the actual like detoxification or transformation, conjugation, conjugation part, so that's something that you're gonna give them to help them move toxins into the body, to boost those different phases of detoxification. It's not going to be curcumin, it's not going to be milk thistle, it's not going to be black pepper, because all those things will block your phases of detoxification, but actually what I'm going to tell you in a second, is going to surprise you because these ingredients are these supplements that I'm going to tell you about, you've actually probably never even seen in a detox product, which is kind of funny to me, because they were actually the best way to enhance detoxification. So that's number two. And then number three is excretion, right? So we need to immobilize, we need to move things through the phases of detoxification, but then we have to help with the excretion and actually getting that out. And this is what most detox programs are missing. They don't do anything to help with excretion. They might stir it up, they might try to open the phases of detox, but they don't actually help you move it out of the body, which means that those toxins are probably going to get redeposited.
Kendra: Yeah, exactly. So that sucks. We don't want that, and that's how detox can make people sick, right. Can make people feel like crap because they're just stirring up toxins and not really moving them out. So let's talk about some of the things that actually help them immobilize toxins. So this will probably surprise you, but one of the best ways to do it is actually fasting and calorie restriction, because that causes the fat cells to burst, right? We want the fat cells to burst and dumped their toxins. So intermittent fasting or extended fasting or calorie restriction are actually really great ways to do this. And this is why I think detox needs to be part of weight loss programs because with calorie restriction, ultimately you are immobilizing toxins. And I actually think maybe the reason why people gain back their weight is because they dump a lot of toxins, but then they don't get moved out. So the body needs to store them again,
Kendra: body makes more fat cells or bigger fat cells.
Christine: Makes sense.
Kendra: Yeah. Yeah. So that's a good way to do it. I mean, that can be obviously a bit intense for people, but it's the best way to do it. Something else that will mimic the same effects of fasting calorie restriction is actually vitamin B3 or Niacin in higher doses. I don't know if you've ever used that, Christine, but you have to be careful with it because it'll make you flush. Like if you take it...
Kendra: in high doses, like it makes you go super red, like a tomato, you get super. [inaudible]
Christine: [inaudible] I had it yesterday, yesterday.
Kendra: Oh really?
Christine: No kinding. I went to see a friend of mine is doing Chinese medicine and she wanted to show you a new thing and she gave me this multivitamin and she was like, 'I put a little bit of B3 in there,' [inaudible] tomato, I hope it wasn't too much, but I didn't. So it was good. But it made me pee like [inaudible]
Kendra: Oh yeah, totally. Yeah. It has a really interesting effect on the body. And so you want to take it, like if you're going to take it, you want to start with a really low dose,
Kendra: like possibly like 50 milligrams or less, because if you go buy like a 500 milligram capsule like you're gonna you might, well you might puke because it's acid, so it will burn your stomach and it'll make you feel very nauseous and then you'll be super red. You'll be read like a beat, you'll be itchy. I mean, you're just going to be like, 'Oh my God, what is happening?'
Kendra: But what it does and there's actually a whole Niacin detox program that's very interesting. But you want to start with a small dose and kind of work your way up. So you could do like a two week or three week detox with Niacin where you start at 50 milligrams and you the way up as high as a thousand or even two. But there's actually this, and I want to mention this because I, this is just so so cool to me. So after 9/11, Christine, a lot of those firefighters were very sick because they got exposed to all those toxic building materials when they were going through the rubble of those buildings and a lot of them were demonstrating Parkinson like symptoms, neurological symptoms, like they were very sick and they actually were put through this Niacin detox which was developed actually by L. Ron Hubbard, the creator of scientology, which is random.
Christine: Your kidding.
Kendra: But, yeah, totally. He developed this way before he developed scientology, but actually is a way to detox people getting off of drugs. And so they went through this program, these firefighters, and basically it involves taking this high dose Niacin, some exercise, and then getting in a sauna and sweating it out. And they were sweating out purple. There's, you can go on Google and look up like 9/11 firefighter Niacin detox, and you'll see pictures of guys holding up towels that are drenched in purple from all the toxins.
Christine: Oh my God.
Kendra: The crazy things that they were bringing through their skin.
Christine: Mind blown people. I'm telling you, this is good stuff
Kendra: Yeah. I know it's, it's totally mind blowing. And it's really crazy. So I think it's a very effective, it's been around for a long time, but you know, obviously if you are doing the Niacin detox like it is best that you, you know, speak with a professional who knows what they're doing first, you should always consult Dr, Professional, that sort of thing. And, you need to be implementing the other phases as well.
Christine: Exactly [inaudible]
Kendra: The other thing I wanted to mention, that'll do it, that'll help them better for. Sorry, go ahead Christine.
Christine: Yeah, I was just going to say that be cautious about these things, don't forget when we told you, right.
Christine: Run phase one and phase two and phase three. This is just like the facilitator. You need, it's like having a plane landing, right? And then having the passengers are all the different toxins coming out and then you need a bus to shuttle them out, right. So right now where just helping passengers to get out of that plane, which is just like your fat cells and everything, and now you need to shuttle them off. Right? So...
Kendra: I love that analogy. I think that's great, like people will be like, 'Yeah, that totally makes sense.' And there is one other thing, and this won't do all toxins, but this is one I use, it's called BioSil. I'll just put that up to the camera for those of you who are watching us on video, but basically it's marketed for skin, hail, hair and nails, but it's just silicone, and silicone actually helped stirrup metal. So this might not get your, your chemicals, your xenobiotics, I'm not super familiar with it, does that, but it does stir up certain metals. So this is actually a really great part of a metals detox program is a little bit of silicon. And a lot of people are already taking it for skin, hair, teeth. But you can take up to 10 drops a day. It can cause a lot of fatigue if you have a lot of metals, you want to start with one drop, but again, if you're going to take it, you, you need to be doing the other things as well. So that's, that's what you need to do with immobilizing toxins. So if you design a detox program, it should either contain some sort of intermittent fasting, some sort of calorie restriction, or Niacin and be careful with the Niacin, because if you give someone a Niacin flush, like we mentioned, it's pretty unpleasant and it might make someone never want to work with you again. So, yeah.
Christine: Yes. They might think they have an allergic reaction and might die. So it's, yeah, no, no. Every time I, I've been weary of it, you know, when they told me, it's been the third time was something that I have it, I have never had anything happen, but I was like, 'I don't want to flush.'
Christine: [inaudible] just want to know about it but you know, I mean stuff with a super low dose and just do plan, stick to it and hydrate.
Kendra: Yep, hydrate, hydrate, hydrate.
Christine: [inaudible] if you have a reaction [inaudible].
Kendra: Yeah, yep, yeah, exactly. And it's temporary, like if you do have a reaction. I've had it. I've, I've overdone Niacin multiple times because I'm, I'm just like don't follow my own follow my...
Christine: Come on!
Kendra: I'm like terrible at following my own advice. But it is temporary and it will, it will pass. It may make you feel very sleepy. Like when I've overdone it, I've literally had people pass out because it makes me very tired. It also sometimes will make you like really goosebumpy, like it makes me really cold and sleepy and I feel like getting the covers and pass out. But yeah, just, actually take my advice, don't be like me, I, I'm horrible for following my own advice sometimes I'm just like, 'oh, I'll just, I'll just see what happens. I'll just, oh whatever. I'll just, I'll just try it.'
Christine: Maybe that was why I was so tired yesterday morning.
Kendra: Yeah, it can make you sleepy, for sure. So take it before bed.
Kendra: Okay. So that's the immobilization. And then we have to talk about the actual detoxification part. So that's where we're taking things to actually help boost detoxification. So milk thistle, curcumin, black pepper. Those things inhibit certain phases of detoxification. You don't want to take those. But things that have actually been proven scientifically, to help with detoxification is coQ10, St John's Wort, and then two strains of lactobacillus, the probiotic, the rhamnosus, and the plantarum. So that's funny, hey Christine, like, have you ever heard those into detox product before?
Christine: No. Like I, I'm the biggest lactobacillus rhamnosus, [inaudible] anyway. Gg strain is the one that I love, like, you need to know probiotics have different strains. The Gg is one that I love because it's like this old style kind of thing, I haven't, but it makes total sense. It makes complete sense to me. The plantarum I haven't seen before, no. Do you know, by any chance, if there are any strains that are better than others?
Kendra: Yeah. I just know the rhamnosus and the plantarum, so I know those strains. I know there's like different strains of each, but as far as I know, it's just those...
Christine: The main.
Kendra: Those main ones that will help. And yeah, the coQ10 and say, like coQ10 is typically something used with people with like, like MS and Parkinson's and St John's Wort is typically used for depression, anxiety, like mental health issues. But they actually are really great detoxifier. So it's just funny because, you know, I look at, and someone's gonna hate me for this, but like those, those shakology things, right.
Kendra: It's like, 'Oh, this helps you detox.' And I look at the ingredients and it's got a ton of things in there that actually block detoxification. And then it's just full of shitty low quality vitamins and minerals that aren't even very well absorbed and some like fillers, and I'm just like, this is a really expensive product, it doesn't help you detox. It's like, I'm sorry, but it's shit.
Christine: It's shit. Yeah. It's not doing anything. It's just random product in there that used to be, I think a lot of these products where developed in the 90's, early 2000's, and nobody's really revised them since then, right?
Christine: And then you have some products, you know, who have everything.
Christine: There you have milk thistle and Q10 and it's like, well that's not going to help either. Right? It's really tricky. So the best is to take things in there, you know, proper form not, I think it's super hard to find a really good all in one product.
Christine: I prefer taking things separately, tying them in properly, and having each individual product do their stuff. It's just more bespoke. It's more tailored, it's more efficient.
Christine: I just prefer that.
Kendra: Yeah, I agree. Like the thing about like minerals for example, is there a very heavy. Right? Very like physically heavy. Like they have all those electrons, like if you get nerdy and look at the periodic table, they just get heavier as you go down. Let's get nerdy and, the thing is if you're taking a multivitamin, like, like if it has everything in it, like you're taking it at such a low dose, that, that's why a lot of multivitamins or synthetic, because they're so weak when they're natural that they have to be synthetic. And I mean I don't think synthetic vitamins and minerals are helpful. And then if you're going to take a national multivitamin, like you would have to take like 10 to 20 times the normal dose to be able to for it to have any effect. Like when people ask me about multivitamins again, they're wondering about an all in one product that can be helpful. My favorite thing is actually marine phytoplankton. There's a company that gets an activation products but it's called Oceans Alive, Marine Phytoplankton. And it actually contains every single mineral and vitamin that the human body needs. Tastes like swampy seawater. But it's really good stuff. And it's in like a very safe, natural plant based form and the really cool thing about the marine phytoplankton is it's alive and if it had too many toxins in it, like if it was contaminated it would die.
Kendra: So that's how they can tell that it's good quality and it's not contaminated. So that's. And that will actually help you detox as well. That's a good like kind of base detox product because it has all the vitamins you need.
Christine: There you go.
Kendra: Yeah. So that can be helpful. But the other things that work really well, and Dandelion is actually a little bit more well known. I think Dandelion is well known.
Kendra: For its detoxification benefits and it does. So dandelion, Chicory root tea is really helpful. And then anything that boosts bile. So bile is something that your liver makes but it stored in the gallbladder and your body will secrete it every time you consume fat. Right? It's kind of like the dish detergent, like if you have an oily pan and you're trying to wash it with water, like you don't get anywhere, you need that soap to kind of emulsify it and break it down, that's what bile is. And bile is actually one of the most detoxifying things that your body has. So bitters are really great.
Kendra: All your bitter foods, greens, that sort of thing. That can be really helpful as well. So you want to be.
Kendra: What were you going to say Christina?
Christine: [inaudible] Is that some of my clients have gallbladder [inaudible] and as a result they were [inaudible], and to me, that's just so irresponsible. Like there's reason for all of this happening. You cannot just cut out an organ, right. So if you do not have a gallbladder, obviously you have to eat differently. You cannot eat as much in one go, just simply because, you know, the gallbladder is that to help the body out once its natural flow has, you know, emptied.
Christine: But what I do find is that you can help it with, I even had really great success with essential oils, actually. Essential oils that were great with plants, that help digestions and things like that. That could definitely help even topically. But that's just a little side note for those of you maybe don't have a gallbladder anymore or just like don't let it [inaudible].
Kendra: Yeah. And so if you don't have a gallbladder, like if you do have a gallbladder, I mean you could be doing things all day long to help stimulate bile and that's really helpful, but you don't want to be doing that when you don't have a gallbladder because then you're just dumping bile into the intestine because you have no storage place for it and then it can be a bit aggravating. So you just want to, you know, only take your bile stimulants when you are eating. Bitters are helpful. Actually, there's a product from UNIKEY called Bile Builder, that I really like. It's got everything that helps build bile and then you might add in some bile salts as well. Just to help because yeah, like gallbladders are really important. Obviously there are medical emergencies where it needs to happen. But typically if I'm working with someone and they're like, 'oh, like my doctor wants to take out my gallbladder.' I'm like, 'give me six months.'
Kendra: Like just, you know, give me six months. Like, I think we can. And typically they won't need to get it removed. It's just because their bile has become thick, luggy and toxic, and we need to kind of thin it out and move it through the gallbladder and make it like viscous again, like that word, viscous.
Kendra: Okay. So the last thing that we have to consider when we're making or building a detoxification program is that excretion part. And so we always want to be taking a binder, something that will help bind to toxins and move it out so that they're not getting recirculated. Typically fiber will do that. The most commonly known binders are things like charcoal, bentonite clay, psyllium husk or, chitosan, which is a shellfish fiber. So if you're allergic to fish, that's not an option. But the thing about those binders that is unfortunate is they, they do bind to all the crap, but they also bind to minerals and pulled them out of the body. So they're not a great long term strategy. So what I use instead, my favorite binder of all time is modified citrus pectin. It's basically just the rind of citrus fruits, and it's great because if you, if it's modified properly, if the people who make it modify it properly, it will get all the crap, all the toxins, all the metals, all the chemicals, even glyphosate, but it does not fuck with the minerals. It doesn't pull them out at all. So the company that has proven that they do this properly is Econugenics. So that's the only company I recommend for modified citrus pectin, because they backed up their shit with a lot of research. A lot of companies will say they make modified citrus pectin but they actually don't modify it properly. And then you're pulling out minerals with toxins which you don't want to do.
Christine: Amazing. So I had no idea. So I'm super like, 'WHHAAAT?'
Kendra: WHAAAT? So I've got some in my tea right now, I take it in my tea every single morning. It's a supplement. When people ask me, 'Hey, I'm on a budget, what's the one supplement I should take?' I always say the citrus pectin because it pulls out all that crap out of your body that we are getting exposed to. It's very safe. It helps boost glutathione. It helps stimulate the immune system. And so everyone should drink it every morning and thier tea.
Christine: I'm going to get that straight away. Like, I'm going to order that today.
Kendra: Yeah. So it's Econugenics Pectasol-C. Get like the, the big thing will cost you like $100, which seems expensive, but at five grams a day it lasts you three months. So it's not too bad.
Christine: That's totally fine. I mean it's like, it as I always say, this is just our vessel, right? We're just here because of this vessel that is our body. If we can help it to be less toxic. It's easy, you know, like.
Kendra: Yeah, totally. I totally agree. It's so important. Like, I mean I have, I have like a health budget, like I have like set aside money every month for what I assigned on my health because it's very, very important to me. It's a priority. I can't do my job. I can't be happy if I don't have my health. Right? So I think investing in our health is something we all need to be doing.
Christine: Yes. Agreed. Much more so than software, you can live without one software.
Kendra: Arg, I love software though. Dammit.
Christine: Me too, but like seriously, some of them are so expensive, their like $50 a month, were I'm like, 'Oh God.'
Kendra: Well everyone's on like a membership model now. Hey? It drives me crazy. I'm like, just give me a one-time fee.
Christine: Yes. But you know, instead you can just buy the supplements instead, you know, and it's going to make you produce a lot more too, which is good.
Kendra: Yeah, exactly. It's really good stuff. A lot of people feel really good on it, so highly recommend it. And then the other thing you want to be thinking about is actually like, okay, so we're binding, but we want to be actually forcing that excretion. Sauna therapy is probably one of the best ways to do this. It's the most well researched. It's really easy to get swept things through the skin. Right. And a lot of us don't sweat that much, especially if you know, me and Christine live in like of the northern latitudes right now it's winter. We're not sweating that much. I just came from Costa Rica and literally all I did was sweat like a Mofo for three weeks [inaudible].
Christine: I am a sweater. Like when it's hot, I sweat like a really great sweater, but there's many funny this, my nose, is like my main sweating organ, I kid you not.
Kendra: Really? Oh my God, that's so funny.
Christine: Nothing in my face well start sweating but just my nose, and you can literary see the drops like forming. I don't know why.
Kendra: That's funny. I mean I'm definitely a face sweater. I'm like, it's funny because when we go ski touring or like hiking like, with like, you know, the girls, they have all their hair out, their hair is so nice and mine's just like shellacked to my head and I'm like, 'Oh God, why do you guy look so good. I'm just so disgusting right now.'
Christine: Yeah. But I'm taking hot baths regularly. You know like, really hot baths that make me sweat. Like completely, like you know, oohh.
Kendra: Yeah, those actually work really well.
Christine: Yeah, exactly. You have the steam, you have the heat, you sweat it in the water so you don't necessarily notice it. But it's like you notice it afterwards because your body is like parched.
Christine: And then obviously the mindful for what kind of body lotion, put on too, because it's going to absorb it.
Kendra: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And I mean, that's a good point because, you can, if you don't own a sauna or you don't have access to a sauna, you can do baths, you can do a really hot bath which will help you sweat. But, you know, any sauna we'll do like, it doesn't need to be infrared. I know infrared Saunas are big hype these days, but it can just be like the sauna that's at your local fitness center or gym or whatever. I actually own an infrared sauna, I have one sitting right over there. I love it. Best investment of my life. It's great because you can actually be in it. You probably need one in your office. [inaudible]
Christine: I need one. I am actually considering putting one into my office because I do have enough space. I just find it. It might look a little bit weird when clients come here and [inaudible].
Kendra: Yeah, I don't see clients here, but, just you know...
Christine: [inaudible] but I do have this space. It's huge. It's like massive. My new office is massive.
Christine: I just saw a really good deal recently, on an Expo model infrared Saunas that I love. I was like, 'Ohhh.'
Kendra: It's definitely a game changer. I bought mine last year and things have really shifted for me since owning it, you know, like I use it on a regular basis, three to four times a week, you know, I get all the great benefits from the infrared, right. It's really good for skin. It has a lot of good anti-aging. It has weight loss benefits, but yeah, the sweating is what matters. And so, you know, obviously infrared, you can spend less, you don't have to stay in it as long or, and you can stay in it longer. Right? It heats you from the inside out, because I know when you go to like a wood fired sauna, like you breathe it into your lungs and it's hard to stay in. But The infrared, like it has that extra benefit of, of allowing you to stay in longer. But really in the end just get a sauna, like try to make that a regular part of your health regimen. You should be recommending it to your clients. The other thing you can do, that can be helpful. A lot of people are super freaked out by them, but are coffee enemas.
Christine: Yeah, I have. My client last weekend and she was talking about a hydro colon therapy, which is a little bit like a coffee enema on steroids,
Christine: Work with hot water, hot water and pressure and it's kind of painful really.
Christine: It is really painful. You have the impression that you get [inaudible]. But coffee enemas are super relaxed, like.
Kendra: Oh yeah.
Christine: Get out of your head that your butt is a horrible place, right. It's actually much less worse than hydro colon therapy or colon therapy,
Christine: and you can just relax with it if you just let yourself go a little.
Kendra: And it's so true. And you know, it's so funny because I always tell my clients and my group members, I'm like, you know, just be open minded give it a go because most people are freaked out and then they fall in love. Like literally they fall in love with putting coffee up their butt.
Christine: I know, it's like this warm and fuzzy feeling and then afterwards it feels like a new born, and it's easy and we'll get specific. Not specific, but there's a very good video of a lady doing it on YouTube. Like you don't see every detail, you do see her doing it basically.
Christine: And it just shows you how simply it is, right? And it's just like, it's just a hole people, you know, it's like.
Kendra: Yeah, I think people are weird about their butt.
Christine: I know.
Kendra: But I mean personally I love pooping. I love to poop. It's just my favorite thing in the entire world. That's definitely tmi. But I'm into it. But yeah,
Christine: You feel so much better afterwards.
Kendra: Oh yeah. And it's my time, you know, it's like I read a book, I do some meditation, like I make it sexy in there, like light some candles.
Christine: Exactly. And there's a lady called Marissa something. I don't remember her name. I met her in August and she is the poop lady something and she said like the perfect poo is the length of your elbow to your wrist? And I was like, I cannot imagine that thing, but do you know why I couldn't?
Christine: European toilets are different than US toilets. Like if you have good poop in a US toilet, you would see the whole length, in European toilets it always breaks.
Christine: You never see it in its full glory.
Kendra: Oh my God, that's so funny.
Christine: So there you go people.
Kendra: Oh Man. That's such a, that is a great piece of information. I'm going to remember that with my European clients if you like, don't worry. You don't see the whole coil in the toilet because your toilets weird.
Christine: There you go, Kendra is rocking your world with science and I know that toilets work differently when pooping.
Kendra: We each bring something very important to the table.
Kendra: Yep, totally.
Christine: Tip of a tube that is much smaller.
Kendra: Yeah. It's very small and you know, the, the, what actually is happening with them. If this is your first time hearing about them and you're like, well, why would you put coffee up here? But it's because of the caffeine in the coffee. Once it's in the colon, it actually goes directly into the hepatic portal system, which is like the little capillary system that connects the colon to the liver and the gallbladder. And when the caffeine gets to the liver, gallbladder actually causes them to contract and run bile through and dump the bile. So it's a great way to help yourself like detox that bile. So it's a very mechanical way to detox the liver. And, you know, I know for natural cancer therapies, I mean they all have people doing these like three to six times a day just because that's how toxic people with cancer are. And so they're, you know, they're very safe to do. They tap it, typically make you feel good. Most people don't react to the caffeine the way you would if you drank a cup of coffee. Some people find them stimulating. I mean if you're going to try it for the first time, you should probably do it earlier in the day just to make sure. But I mean, I love them. I do them regularly. My boyfriend thinks I'm crazy. We joke around about butt coffee all the time.
Christine: [inaudible] he's like, 'why don't you want to do anal if you do that?'
Kendra: Oh my God, I love that. [inaudible]
Christine: [inaudible] Well we have to edit this out.
Kendra: Nah, we'll just leave it in.
Christine: Like yeah, it's seriously. It's not, it's, put some music on. Like literally put some soft music on, get into the groove of just relaxing and just, it's literally something great for your body. Your body will love it.
Kendra: Yeah. Yeah, totally. Most people really like them after they've done them. So. So yeah. So that's what you need. So you know, if you want to create like, you know, we're coming into this episode is probably going to be released at being in January. Obviously January is a big time for the health industry for launching things because that's, you know, people spend December ruining their health and then in January they were ready for a new start. So this is a good time to create a detox program for your clients, right? So just make sure you're doing something to, immobilize toxins. You're doing something to boost that detoxification and then you're doing something to stimulate excretion and that's actually gonna get your clients results. That's actually going to make them feel good. And then the other thing I just wanted to mention is really think about things you can be doing on a daily basis to help yourself detox, because detox does need to be a daily thing. And you can, it doesn't need to be this big thing, you know, like I, will have a small cup of organic coffee first thing in the world because that helps stimulate bile. I have salty water first thing in the morning because it has minerals and minerals help you detox. Like, you know, I eat my bitter foods, I drink my dandelion tea, I get in the sauna, I do a coffee enema. Like there's things that you can be doing on a regular basis that we should be doing because we really do need to think about it daily because on a given day, who the fuck knows how much shit is getting into your body.
Christine: Yeah, and you will feel so much better. You will be more alert, will have better energy, you will sleep better, your skin will look amazing. So it's the only benefits people. It's literally one benefits and you can do small things. You don't have to, you know, worrying about not having enough time to lay down on the floor and do a coffee enema. It's just an example that we gave you enough options that you can definitely do.
Kendra: Totally, yeah, just putting that modified citrus pectin into your tea every morning is a good detox strategy as well. And you know, with detox, I think the most important thing to keep in mind is the goal is not to do it quickly, fast detox is not safe. Because we accumulate so many toxins over our lifetime. Like we might be detoxing things that have been on our bodies since we were kids. Right? If you're a child of the 80's, like us, you ate a lot of butter or not butter, margarine and toxic like cheese and all kinds of weird shit, right. The 80's is like the worst time [inaudible] right?
Kendra: What was considered healthy in the 80's is like pretty disgusting. So there's a good chance me and Christine have margarine sitting in our tissues.
Christine: It's right here. I can tell you exactly where it is.
Kendra: Oh my God. Yeah. So, you know, slow, long term detox is key and wants to be gentle. I don't recommend quick detox and it's something that you should do more than once a year. I mean, you design a little, like 10 day detox, you know, do it several times a year. Launch it as a group program, right? Like, wouldn't that be a great group program to do a 30 day detox where you spend a couple of weeks like helping people like build up and kind of pre-prepare for it. Do 10 day detox that includes these three things we just talked about and then do some sort of final, you know, recovery, restoration thing, like that could be a really great 30 day group program that you could launch a couple of times a year. Right.
Christine: And your testimonials will go through the roof.
Kendra: Yes. Yeah, yeah. I think. I think we really need to educate people on what detox actually is and how to actually do it and why it's not just, you know, like I go crazy when people are like, 'Oh, I did the master cleanse.] I'm like, okay, you just starved yourself and eat sugar for three weeks. Great. You know, or those detoxes.
Christine: Yes. And we are supposed to be like, 'YAY.'Gosh.
Kendra: Yeah. There's a lot of weird things out there that they detox, like, yeah, those weird wraps. And I'm the wild rose cleanse. I'm not trying to bash these companies, but the wild rose cleanse that people do, it's just like, it's not really a detox. Sorry guys. These companies [inaudible].
Christine: No no.
Kendra: All right.
Christine: My end, I didn't know my Wifi is weird today, but. Okay. I think that's pretty much it. Don't forget, this is a lot to take in. We have it in the show notes on our website 360healthbizpodcast.com, where you'll find links for all the products that can Kendra mentioned today and you have a complete detox program right there. It's all there. You can literally just go and highlight it and print it out and then you have it ready for you to use, and it's going to be efficient, it's scientifically backed up. It's going to be amazing, so everything is right there, so don't forget to check that out and if you've learned, here's my challenge for you, if you have learned anything knew during this episode, in-concluding difference between US and European toilets, then please go to iTunes right now and leave us a five star review.
Kendra: Yeah, and it's so easy to do, like if you're on the app right now, you literally just go to the search bar search 360healthbizpodcast and then you can actually go in and do a little like five-star review. It literally takes two minutes and helps us get out there. If you want to support us, you think we're kind of cool even just a little bit. That would be the best way to tell us.
Christine: And we are, I mean, we totally are, but it's like, yeah, even if we teach you something, if there was anything you learned, that would be amazing.
Kendra: Yeah. We want to know. Awesome. Well, it was super fun hanging out with you Christine.
Christine: As always.
Kendra: As always and, we'll see you guys in the next episode.
Christine: And we're recording this in December 2018. So all of you guys have a happy holidays. Even if you're listening to this in 2025 and we've changed our opinion already, never mind. We're still wishing you a beautiful 2019.
Kendra: Awesome. Take care Christine.
Tools mentioned in this episode:
Living Matrix The new standard for functional medicine. Your partner in creating superior, life-changing patient health outcomes.
Clinician Business Labs An online incubator for clinician entrepreneurs. A platform to assist clinicians scale and amplify their businesses.
- Grab our FREE Practitioner Tool Kit to get a list and review of all the platforms Kendra and Christine use personally in their businesses to save time, money and generate consistent income.
About Meghan Walker:
Dr. Meghan Walker is a naturopathic doctor and Entrepologist, focusing on the health optimization of female entrepreneurs and game changers. As an entrepreneur, Meghan started and sold her first business while in University and is a Co-founder and past CEO of the digital health media start-up, Bright Almond. She is the host of the Entrepology Podcast, Founder of Entrepology Labs, creator of the women's performance supplement line, Badass Basics and Chief Cheerleader at Clinician Business Labs - a platform to assist clinicians scale and amplify their businesses.
Meghan is fueled by the core belief that when people are well, they can change the world. Meghan views women as natural entrepreneurs, physiologically predestined for creation. She is driven to support them in achieving this potential by optimizing their health and mindset. Meghan has spoken internationally and through multiple media outlets on topics related to women's performance health and entrepreneurship. Most importantly, Meghan is the mother to three little girls, who is raising alongside her superstar husband in Toronto Ontario.
Contact Meghan Walker:
Christine: Hello everyone and welcome to this episode of the 360 HealthBiz Podcast with myself, Christine Hansen, and usually Kendra Perry who is chilling in a hammock in Costa Rica right now. So I got myself another partner in crime for today's episode and we are here with Meghan Walker, and we're going to talk all things business. But first, if you do like our episode, if you do like listening to us, don't forget to head over to iTunes to leave us an amazing review and you can also see the video live or actually not live, but you can see it on our blog, 360healthbizpodcast.com.
And so without further ado, I'm going to present Meghan to you so that you know who we're going to talk to. So Dr. Meghan Walker is a naturopathic doctor and Entrepologist focusing on the health optimization of female entrepreneurs and game changers. So that's you guys out there. Even if you're not a female, I suppose she could still help you. As an entrepreneur, Meghan started and sold her first business while in University and is a Co-founder and past CEO of the digital health media start-up, Bright Almond. She is the host of the Entrepology Podcast, Founder of Entrepology Labs, creator of the women’s performance supplement line, Badass Basics, adore, by the way, love that name, Chief Cheerleader at Clinician Business Labs, watch out for that, we're going to talk more about it. A platform to assist clinicians scale and amplify their businesses. So I'm going to stop there, there's much more to say you can check out the complete bio on our notes, on our show notes. But Meghan, welcome so much to this episode. I'm so excited to have you.
Meghan: Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Christine: So I'm really, really happy because Kendra and I, we both love talking business. We really, really do. And that's why that's one of the reasons why we created this podcast because I think it's really important, especially if you're in the health sector, it's different and other businesses, right? It's not like money coaching or you know, other business coaching. It's very, very different animals, so we love to talk to people who've, you know, walk the talk, who have had a successful career and who you know, can share tips with our listeners. Now the first thing that we'll usually do is we share a trick of the trade tool, so something that we love to use in our businesses and I ask, I ambushed you a little bit with this one,
Christine: But if there was one that you really liked, which one would it be?
Meghan: Well, you know, I have. I asked if I could have more than one, but I'm going to focus on one. You know, we have a tool that we use in our office and this is a cool hybrid between a health and business and it's called Living Matrix, and Living Matrix is a female run company out of New York. And this is a functional medicine platform and what Living Matrix enables you to do, is you can either have it on the front of your, your site and prospective patients can come and they can complete the questionnaire or you can give it to your patients in subsequent follow-ups. And it literally built out this functional medicine Matrix and where their body is stressed and where it's compensating and it becomes this really amazing tool because then you sit down with your patients, they completed it online, they're told that they get a result, and they can book an appointment with you to sit down and go through it, because. And I understand the functional medicine matrix is beyond the average person.
Meghan: They can't do it, they can't grab strategy from it. And so it becomes this really incredible platforms. So I use it as a practitioner. I still see patients because it's a way of me aggregating data in a unique way, but it's also this really incredible way of bringing new patients...
Meghan: and creating curiosity. So Living Matrix...
Christine: 'There's your problem, now hire me,'it's...
Meghan: Yeah, I don't work for them. I just like it. Yeah. No, it's great. It's great tool.
Christine: This is fantastic. I'm going to add that to the show notes for sure. Living Matrix. And I'm going to check it out, like I've never heard of it before.
Meghan: Oh yeah, no, it's great.
Christine: So there we go. We can stop now. That's fine. No I'm kidding.
Meghan: Thanks everyone.
Christine: Bye. No, literally, I'm mind blown. Okay. I'm going to check it out, people before you head off to check it out, finish and listen to the episode first, but what will happen in the show notes. But Megan obviously, I chose you to be a guest because we love to learn more about running a business, right? And health business is just different and you have successfully created this platform. So I want you to talk a little bit more about that. And also I find a lot of the people that I talked to have invested a lot of money in traditional business coaches,
Christine: Who usually train business coaches, right?
Christine: So, and they find that a lot of strategies just don't quite work. So maybe you can explain why and maybe things that you have found are just different.
Meghan: Yes. So but, if just stopped me because I have this tendency to talk, but my background is as a naturopathic doctor. And, I was, I was drawn to this profession. Secondary to an interest that I had in business. So as you mentioned, I had a business, I had sold it and, and I grew up in a fairly entrepreneurial family, so that was a given that I was going to go into that field and then I discovered naturopathic medicine and I was like, 'oh, so such a smart way of thinking.'
Meghan: Right, and so I couldn't, I couldn't shake it. So I was like, all right, fine, I'll go. [inaudible] I went through this through this lens and, and I set up a practice and we started to build that practice, and we tried a few things and some things worked and some things didn't. But, you know, one of the things I realized early on in, in my career is that I had a profession where I understood why everyone needed me, but consumers in turn did not understand why they needed to come and see me.
Christine: [inaudible] Yes.
Meghan: Right? So when you have a business where your service is incredibly valuable and your level of responsibility and, education means that you're going to command a certain price point, but then consumers have no idea why you're valuable. You're marketing costs are so disproportionate. And so what it did is it created this, this landscape where I was like, man, we've got all these incredible practitioners with a body of knowledge that could truly transform healthcare and they don't know how to talk to consumers because there's this complete disconnect. And I was sort of fascinated by it, and I was also really frustrated for my colleagues just because I was like, I have really incredible clinician colleagues who could be really transforming the health of people and they don't, they don't know what to do. And so I sold my practice to my business partner five years in and I decided to establish a micro-practice myself. But then I was like, I want to look at how we can expand access to consumers to practitioners. And so really went deep on that to understand what people were doing well, what people weren't doing well. For me, my own. I had, I had some natural knack with respect to business in my back pocket and started to do some strategy work with practitioners. And I consider myself more strategist than a coach.
Christine: And my area of expertise is really understanding how do we create expandable, scalable practices for practitioners that don't deplete them, that doesn't mean they're treating more time for hours. And doesn't always mean they're going online.
Christine: Oh, I have tears like in my eyes.
Meghan: So wait, but you asked what's different, right? And I have practices where like I need people to stop telling me that I can only exist in the online space because they're like, 'I want to see people, but I'm burning out.' So we build these really interesting hybrid programs where they can leverage the online space and in-office space we helped them create transformational in-office programs so they can teach to colleagues. So they can either licensed their methodology or they can bring in other colleagues to work in there and practice it, you work a fraction of the time but your whole team is delivering your care model. So we really start to teach people frameworks to expand their way of thinking, because not only do I think we deserve to earn a really great living, but I think that we also, through the use of innovative thinking, we can reach more people. And so it had practitioners all the time, I'm just going to lower my rates to make myself more accessible and I was like, 'you will not do that. You're going to innovate to become more accessible. You are not going to commoditize yourself.' So we just have a lot of different frameworks that we, that we use, we do. We spend a lot of time really helping practitioners understand their worth and value, and then build out a business plan that is unique and different but ultimately helps, helps people. And so we ran a big event here in the fall called, impact lives, and we made a public declaration that by 2025 we want to help 50 million people reach green practitioners,
Christine: Oh my god.
Meghan: which means we have to make a lot of practitioners,
Meghan: expand their reach. And so that's, that's what we're committed to doing.
Christine: Oh, mind blown.
Meghan: Like, like big, big, big, big goals. Because this is really powerful what we're doing, so.
Christine: [inaudible] absolutely.
Christine: I think there's so many people. Like personally I have a business model where I would never [inaudible], I would always just work with a handful of clients. That's what I chose to do, but I do know so many people who are like, the heart's desire is to help as many people as they can. Right. So it's, both are fine, you know, both models are absolutely fine,
Christine: but if you ask someone, and I think the typical practitioner that I have in my head, that's probably your client I would say, is someone who has that idea, you know, who has already conformed. So is asking, I don't know, $60 an hour, I don't know. Average. Something like that is working 40 hours, minimum, maybe 40 hours, seeing people a week, but then having all the back work, you know, getting prepped and all that stuff is coming on top of that. So more of a 60 hour week. What is the first thing that you usually tell them to do? Or what is the one step where you say, okay, that needs to be the groundwork before we can do anything else?
Meghan: Yeah, I usually take them out of practice at least one day a week.
Meghan: We just, we just slash it from their schedule. So there's massive trepidation, and then we usually increase their rates by 30%, because we create some innovative ways for people to access them. But we do that because everyone gets caught in this model where they're working in their business and they have no foreseeable way to start working on their business and they start doing it at night once the kids are down and it's like 8 o'clock in the evening and they're exhausted and they maybe poured a glass of wine and then their like, 'I'm going to work on my business?' You're not, like, you're not gonna work on your business, you're gonna look at one email and you're gonna go to bed.
Meghan: So we just take an entire day off their, off their schedule. And I remember the first time I did that for myself, I tripled my income within the next quarter.
Christine: That's crazy.
Meghan: I just honed in on my, on my, on my strategies and I blew through that myth that I need to see more people to make more money because that has a ceiling and you can't burst through it. So, yep. So take people out of work.
Christine: So when you say 'innovative,' like for me, innovative is obviously something new or something that has existed, but in a new way, what would be one of the techniques that you would say it's actually not brand new, but we just do it in an in a way that hasn't been done before? So what would be one thing that you can see in practitioners eyes when you tell them go like, 'oh,' you know, like this 'ting,' mind blown.
Meghan: Right. Well yeah. So sometimes yes, sometimes it's about like reaching more people and then sometimes it's about how do you leverage your existing platform so you're not wasting time redoing the same thing. So for example, I have got some really great colleagues near me and they've thought out these incredible group coaching programs, and if you want to see the practitioner one-on-one, you've got to graduate to the group coaching program first. So they don't have to do months of like, this is what gluten is, and this is how you take out dairy and, and this is what your hormones should look like, you go through the curriculum before you have access to that practitioner, and they're building a community at the same time. So you know, we know that community is so vital and critical to someone's health and so they built that. So these people are feeling amazing before they even walk into the practitioner's office. So the works really easy. Another example would be the utilization of health coaches in a practice. So if you're a clinician and then I see my role as a naturopathic doctor to set strategy for my patients, but I can't be on the phone with them everyday to implement, and it's the implementation that's gonna make a difference for them. So getting strategy based practitioners to start to leverage people who are highly trained in implementation is a game changer for everyone, creates new income streams in it and it shifts things around. So those would be two examples where we can just innovate in the delivery of care and those weren't even technology dependent.
Meghan: Technology. Right. And the technology example might be, you know, if we're doing, like a really comprehensive hormonal evaluation or it gut health evaluation, I could sit for an hour and explain it to a patient or I could record a five minute video and uploaded into their patient portal and ask them to watch it and then after bring any questions to the visit. And now we're having a 20 minute follow-up, not a one hour follow up. It took me 10 minutes to create an uninterrupted video and they can go back and watch it. So there's lots of ways of creating efficiency through innovation that's not, it's not expensive, it's just about bringing a creative lens to the stuff we've already got.
Christine: Alright. So I'm going to play the devil's advocate here because I love what you're saying. Absolutely. But I can hear people, you know, have this little voice creeping up, 'but if I have a coach working with me, obviously I can't charge as much because I have to split with a coach or if I'm just going to send that video, obviously I can't charge as much because I don't spend as much time with them.' I guess these are, you know, objections you hear all the time.
Christine: Why is that not true?
Meghan: Yeah, I love that question. Here's what that question assumes and where we're stuck, when we're asking that question, the assumption is the only value that you're giving people is your time. And I would say the most valuable thing you're giving people is your strategic thinking and your body of knowledge. And for my patient base, the more efficient I can be in my appointments, the more grateful they are because they've got busy stuff to do. So if I can bring them in and say these resources are already in your portal and as I've linked you to this video and Dah, Dah, it's all there and we're just going to touch base and set strategies, they're like, 'Amazing, thank you.' And I say to them, 'Right now. Now you're going to meet with your health coach.' They're like, 'thank you.' It doesn't cut into my rates. It's still just, it's the same price to come and see me because you're buying my strategy. You're not buying my time.
Christine: Oh my God, this is so true. And it's also your clients, their time is precious.
Meghan: Their time is precious. Yep.
Christine: It's so funny. I have, my program has two different. I have three programs, but basically two of them are exactly the same except that one takes 6 successions and the other is one day, because we do everything in one day.
Christine: One day one starts from 10k because those people are just like, I don't have time for six sessions, you know? So it's just, it's also respecting their time because they are like, I prefer having a Saturday or Sunday where we'll break out into this and you know, work hard and then I have follow up if I need to because they are doers. So it's time, it's just, it's not your time. It's their time as well. So how do you communicate that element? Because I think people, it's not just the practitioners who have this mind-set, right, that it's like the time that it's been paid for,
Christine: but sometimes a certain type of client has the same kind of idea. How do you communicate that strategy is what you pay for instead of time and it is logical, but what would it be like, for example, a sentence or something that you've noticed that when your clients are saying it, their patients actually get.
Meghan: Yeah, so we just. We spent a lot of time really understanding what the outcome is that our patients want to achieve, and then asking the question, how do you know when you're going to be successful? And so when we, when we lay those pieces out in front of them, then we said, part of our methodologies, we're going to build a strategy and we tell them right in that meet and greet appointment, that appointment they're not even paying for where they're just getting to see if there's good alignment. They're like, this is how we work, so we're highly committed to outcome for you and we have two layers of people who are gonna help you, the strategists, and the implementers, and here's why we've seen them be successful. And then at that point if people are like, 'No, I just want to spend three hours with my naturopath.' I'm like, 'Great. I have tons of people I can refer you to. It's not how we work,' and what I've historically seeing, because I get pushed back from new entities, because they're like, 'No, we don't want to say no to the patient,' and they really want to, they want to work on diet with the patient, for example, because they want a reason to bring them back and charge them for another visit. But what I see happening is you have a practitioner who should be working as the strategist, who sees the patient for all the implementation and you can't get through much. So by the time someone's benefits are expired or they've just lost interest in the process. All you've done is take a dairy and gluten and put them on a multivitamin and they're like, 'Ah, naturopathic medicine doesn't really work.'
Christine: Yeah, it's just a generic kind of stuff.
Christine: It's not.
Meghan: It's really not. It's actually really sophisticated what we're doing. So where we can leverage different individuals to, [inaudible] something like apps to coach, not necessarily health coaches, but where we can use different things to help with that implementation piece. We want to do that because that's gonna, that's gonna make or break patient, patient success and I just don't have enough time to do that.
Christine: Yep. And I find that high quality care is actually a person with a great referral network, you know, saying, 'Look, this is not my boathouse. I'm super great at this, but here is my network and I think this person would be amazing for you.' And that's also I find a sign of being a person of integrity and being a person who has a certain standard in class. Literally. Because you have that network of amazing people and you know what is the most efficient for your client. And clients love that. Clients love to know, okay, well connected Dah, Dah, Dah, Dah, Dah. I get the best care of whatever is possible. Even if it's not like that person itself, which is totally fine. It's much better than the mind-set of I need to keep everything for myself. It's just not worth it. The more you let it go, the more revenue will come in. It's crazy like that. It's like.
Meghan: Yes. Yep. My best referral sources are from people who I've actually never treated, but saw and referred out to other high quality along the line people and they're like. And they just, they just keep sending new people. It's amazing. It's amazing.
Christine: And it's, it's what I say all the time. Also I niche on a certain type of person. Right? So I'm just, my price tag is not for everyone and one of the things that I always say is I don't take it personally if you find it too expensive, right. And that's when people are like, 'Oh, thank you.'
Meghan: Yeah, absolutely.
Christine: But being honest like that, that's what is creating a bond that goes even beyond working with them one on one afterwards.
Meghan: Right. Yeah.
Christine: So walk me a little bit through your process when. Okay. I can imagine that I have lots of people who are listening right now and they're like, 'Oh my God, I want to work with her. I want to know what her company is like, how can I get on board? I totally need this.' So what, what we through the process of how do people get in touch with you, what do you usually do? What would it look like?
Meghan: Yeah. So we have two core, we have two of our core programs that we offer. One is called the first 18, and the first 18 is really designed for is a foundational business program and we originally launched it for new practitioners and it was like, what are all the strategic business things you need to understand from the second you get your license through that first 18 months of practice. And so this is everything from marketing strategy, to financial planning, to operational strategy, because I just want to help people think like an entrepreneur. And so that, that's our, that's our foundational program that a lot of, while we intended for it to be for new practitioners, we have a lot of people who are like 10 years out like, 'Actually, I feel like I never got the basics.' So that's often where people start and then we have, a more advanced program called the clinician code, and the clinician code is a one-year program for practitioners, and we're gonna look at doing a six-minute version, but there's a lot of material to cover. And what we do for practitioners over the course of the year is we help them find their area of authority within the marketplace, and then develop an in office transformational program. And so one of our area of expertise is to work with regulated practitioners who have to work with, with regulators, but how do we help them start to build out strategic programming. And usually the implementation of that becomes a hybrid of an in office program and some elements that are online. But we talked about things exactly like we talked about today. How do we create innovation within tools that you already have within your practice? And what we really want for people to have at the end of that is a full transformational program that they could then choose to license if they wanted to license, that they could grow out within their practice if they wanted to do that. How do we build on residual income opportunities on top of that, but it becomes the backbone upon which we build all these other elements of their practice. So that's what we really look at accomplishing in that when your program. And then I do take on a really small number of private coaching clients on a quarterly basis.
Christine: I love it. I absolutely love it. I have one last question. I know that you have a sweet spot for female entrepreneurs, but you do this for men and women don't you?
Meghan: Yes, I do. So in my, in my medical practice, that's where I work a lot with female entrepreneurs, but in our coaching with Clinician Business Labs, yeah we'll work with everybody. But I mean there's so many women in healthcare now.
Christine: I know.
Meghan: It's, it's, it's amazing. And, you know, I had, when we, when I launched my start-up and we were doing funding and I was flying back and forth to California and I was pregnant with my third child and I, so like I get it and that's part of the conversation that I can have with women is, how do you build up a clinical practice and how do you build up any kind of business while you're also, like, you got little people and, and how do you balance all of that? And, and, it's just, it's another area I'm really passionate about, but it's why I ended up having this conversation with, with women is we're in a, we're in a unique position, where we're trying to build a family and a business at the same time.
Christine: I totally agree. I absolutely love this. I'm going to be very blunt. I have kind of an idea what you did, but not really.
Meghan: No problem. Those are the best interviews, right?
Christine: But we did meet or we did connect through the mindshare group. So everyone is out there who hasn't joined joint mindshare yet, have a look. It's an amazing community, by Jj Virgin and Karl Krummenacher. Is that his name? I think so. Check it out. Made amazing connections there. So that's how we got, somehow got into each other's spheres. But I have to say I'm really, really, really happy that you've been on this podcast because it's completely in our boathouse and inlined with what we preach and how we run our businesses. So this has been phenomenal. So last question, we're going to have everything in the show notes, but when people are fired up right now and they're like, I need this, how do they get in touch with you or your team?
Meghan: Yeah. So you can always find us at our website. It's clinicianbusinesslabs.com. And probably the fastest way to link to that is just through Instagram. And my Instagram handle is @DrMeghanWalker. Meghan with an H. [inaudible]
Christine: That's so interesting. Instagram, huh?
Meghan: Yeah. Oh yeah. I hired through Instagram. We like, we hang out on Instagram a lot.
Christine: That's. See that's like a whole other topic, we need to reschedule. Kendra is huge on Instagram too, like I kind of dabbled around with it but I don't really get it, but yeah. Okay, good. Well it's trade marketing. Obviously, it seems to work. So, okay. I'm super excited. Thank you so much for sharing this wisdom,
Meghan: Such a pleasure.
Christine: like it's been lots of light bulb moments and I just know that so many of you listening this is going to be such a shortcut, like and, I cannot recommend getting help enough, like trying to, figuring it out on your own. It's not worth it. Really get some help and I think you know Meghan and your team, you would probably be amazing at this, so I hope that lots of people will reach out. I love what you shared with us today. Thank you so much. And if you guys out there like the two, then leave us a five star review on iTunes. You can also become a patron of the show. It's all on 360healthbizpodcast.com where you will also find the transcripts and the show notes and the links about everything that we talked about today. So thank you so much Meghan.
Meghan: Such a pleasure.
Christine: And we will be back in two weeks together with Kendra that time. And, I hope you have a wonderful well, Thanksgiving as we are recording this. It's probably going to be later, but you know, then it's going to be thanksgiving, 2019 or 20, whatever. It's gonna be a new one. So I'm happy Thanksgiving for all of you guys and we'll be talking in two weeks. Bye.